28: The Sacred Power of Softness and Non-Traditional Love ft Blue Telusma

Summary

UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE

Episode 28: The Sacred Power of Softness and Non-Traditional Love ft. Blue Telusma

Release Date: April 15, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 28 of Unruly with Shelah Marie, host Shelah Marie engages in a profound and transformative conversation with Blue Telusma, a writer, speaker, and cultural critic. The episode delves into the often misunderstood concepts of softness, strength, and non-traditional forms of love, challenging societal norms and offering listeners practical insights for personal growth and holistic wellness.

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Discussion on "White Lotus" and Societal Dynamics

[03:03] Shelah Marie:
Shelah opens the discussion by analyzing the popular TV show White Lotus, highlighting its portrayal of complex friendships and power dynamics. Shelah emphasizes the character Lori's speech in the final episode, interpreting it as a reflection of a scarcity mindset prevalent in toxic friendships.

[04:31] Blue Telusma:
Blue challenges Shelah's interpretation, describing Lori's speech as an example of a scarcity mindset disseminated through mass media. She critiques the show for inadvertently promoting unhealthy friendship models, where longevity in relationships is mistaken for quality and loyalty.

Notable Quote:

"It's mass disseminated scarcity mindset." — Blue Telusma [04:31]

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Softness as a Strategy for Survival

[05:26] Shelah Marie:
Shelah relates to Blue's insights by sharing her own struggles with honesty in female friendships. She describes how her commitment to honesty often backfired, leading to misunderstandings and resentment.

[05:27] Blue Telusma:
Blue elaborates on the societal pressures on women to prioritize niceness over honesty, explaining how this dual expectation creates toxic relational dynamics. She asserts that women are often perceived as "emotional creatures" lacking logic, despite evidence to the contrary.

Notable Quote:

"Women are socialized to be people pleasers. We are socialized that being nice should come above everything else, including integrity." — Blue Telusma [05:54]

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Navigating Gender Roles and Emotional Intelligence

[10:25] Shelah Marie:
Building on the theme, Shelah discusses the importance of discerning meaningful friendships from those that drain one's energy. She emphasizes that time spent together does not inherently equate to quality or mutual growth.

[10:29] Blue Telusma:
Blue introduces the concept of "assets versus liabilities" in relationships, referencing Oprah's praise for Gayle King as an example of valuing friends who support without demanding personal sacrifices. She stresses the necessity for empowered women to distance themselves from those who perpetuate victimhood.

Notable Quote:

"Empowered women cannot have friends who are committed to playing victim. Because we're gonna always piss you off." — Blue Telusma [10:25]

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The Interplay of Softness and Strength

[19:07] Blue Telusma:
Blue shares her personal journey towards reclaiming softness, influenced by familial expectations of strength. She recounts the health consequences faced by women in her family due to relentless strength and the importance of vulnerability for receiving compassion.

[21:38] Shelah Marie:
Shelah connects Blue's narrative to her own experiences, particularly in maintaining authentic relationships while navigating societal expectations. She highlights the balance between nurturing relationships and maintaining personal integrity.

Notable Quote:

"Softness doesn't mean that I don't have any strength. It just means I don't lead with it." — Blue Telusma [21:38]

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Ethical Non-Monogamy: A Complex Path

[46:40] Blue Telusma:
The conversation shifts to ethical non-monogamy, where Blue defines it as more than just a relationship style, emphasizing the necessity of emotional intelligence and clear communication. She critiques those who use non-monogamy as an excuse for infidelity, advocating for integrity regardless of relationship structure.

[47:35] Shelah Marie:
Shelah shares her own experiences with non-monogamy, acknowledging its challenges and ultimately concluding that monogamy better suits her personal growth and relational depth.

Notable Quote:

"You still cheat in a poly relationship. Wherever you go, there you are." — Blue Telusma [50:31]

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Soft Life Movement and Bandwidth Management

[37:06] Blue Telusma:
Blue critiques the "soft life" movement, arguing that its original intent has been co-opted by performative individuals. She distinguishes between laziness and true softness, advocating for bandwidth management as a means to prioritize personal well-being without the need for external validation.

[45:25] Blue Telusma:
Blue introduces practical tools for embracing softness, such as identifying what makes one feel safe and integrating sensual self-love into daily routines. She encourages listeners to create personal rituals that center their well-being authentically.

Notable Quote:

"Bandwidth management. That's what an actual soft life is. Today I'm at 40%. I'm gonna be kind to myself and only do half the list." — Blue Telusma [45:28]

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Tools for Embracing Softness

[57:31] Blue Telusma:
As the episode nears its conclusion, Blue offers actionable tools for listeners to incorporate softness into their lives:

1. Embrace Wetness: Encourage feminine beings to connect with their sensuality and softness.
2. Create Safe Spaces: Identify environments, people, and practices that foster a sense of safety.
3. Self-Love Rituals: Develop daily routines that enhance self-love and body positivity.
4. Boundary Setting: Learn to set boundaries to protect one's soft space from toxic influences.

[60:31] Blue Telusma:
Blue highlights the importance of recognizing and distancing oneself from people pleasers and those who manipulate through niceness, advocating for honesty and integrity in all relationships.

Notable Quote:

"Softness keeps us sane. It does. Bars. It's a personal ritual." — Blue Telusma [61:54]

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Conclusion and Call to Action

In the concluding moments, Shelah expresses her gratitude to Blue for the enriching conversation and encourages listeners to explore further by following Blue's social platforms and participating in her emotional intelligence workshops. Shelah reiterates the episode's core message: embracing softness as a strategic and empowering choice rather than a weakness.

Notable Quote:

"Stay soft and of course, stay unruly until next time." — Shelah Marie [64:04]

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Notable Quotes Summary

• Blue Telusma [04:31]: "It's mass disseminated scarcity mindset."
• Blue Telusma [05:54]: "Women are socialized to be people pleasers. We are socialized that being nice should come above everything else, including integrity."
• Blue Telusma [10:25]: "Empowered women cannot have friends who are committed to playing victim. Because we're gonna always piss you off."
• Blue Telusma [21:38]: "Softness doesn't mean that I don't have any strength. It just means I don't lead with it."
• Blue Telusma [50:31]: "You still cheat in a poly relationship. Wherever you go, there you are."
• Blue Telusma [45:28]: "Bandwidth management. That's what an actual soft life is. Today I'm at 40%. I'm gonna be kind to myself and only do half the list."
• Blue Telusma [61:54]: "Softness keeps us sane. It does. Bars. It's a personal ritual."

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Key Takeaways

1. Redefining Softness: Softness is a strategic strength essential for personal well-being and authentic relationships.
2. Challenging Toxic Dynamics: Societal expectations often pressure women into sacrificing honesty for niceness, leading to unhealthy relationships.
3. Emotional Intelligence in Relationships: Whether monogamous or non-monogamous, emotional intelligence and clear communication are crucial for healthy connections.
4. Authentic Self-Love: Incorporating self-love rituals and embracing one's sensuality fosters inner peace and resilience.
5. Boundary Setting: Establishing boundaries protects one's soft space from draining and manipulative individuals.

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Supporting the Guest

Listeners interested in furthering their emotional intelligence and embracing softness as a strength can connect with Blue Telusma through her social media handles:

• Instagram & Twitter: @Bluecentric
• TikTok: @Lutelusma
• Workshops: Sign up for her eight-week emotional intelligence workshop via ots25.eventbrite.com

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Stay Connected

To continue exploring transformative conversations around self-love, acceptance, and holistic wellness, subscribe to Unruly with Shelah Marie on your preferred podcast platform. For personalized questions and engagement, submit your voice notes at speakpipe.com/unruly and potentially be featured in future episodes.

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Stay soft, stay unruly, and continue reclaiming your true self.

Transcript

[Blue Talousma]

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[Sheila Marie]

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[Blue Talousma]

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[Unknown]

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[Sheila Marie]

Welcome to Unruly. I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for black women, and the founder of the curvy Curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who are all navigating their own paths to healing. Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly. Hey there beautiful people. Welcome back to Unruly, and you know what it is. This is the space where we dive into the bold, transformative conversations that live at the intersection of culture, healing and radical acceptance. Today's guest is a true force, someone whose words feel like both a scalpel and a salve. Blue Talousma is a writer, speaker and cultural critic who's made it her mission to remind us that softness isn't a weakness, it's a strategy. And it's sacred. You've likely read her work in Essence the Griot, or maybe you've come across one of her viral essays, Unpacking the Strong black woman myth or the emotional labor of love. We're talking about softness not as just a vibe or an aesthetic, but as a tool, a necessary one for survival. Now, I am so looking forward to this conversation. I feel like we should just get right into it, because this conversation is about choosing love and softness on your own terms. And I can't wait to hear it. Welcome to Unruly Blue.

[Blue Talousma]

Yay. That was a very good intro. Oh, my God. Producer in me was like, yes, you better.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, thank you. Thank you. We. We really enjoy. I really enjoy. Well, my producer looks up guests, and I really enjoy looking up everybody. And I don't know, it's just very fun, and I love to give people a very n. Warm welcome.

[Blue Talousma]

That felt warm.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, well, I'm glad. You're welcome. So before we get into the icebergers, we haven't had any guests that talk about TV shows and stuff like that, but we already were getting into it, guys, and I was like, no, no, no, no. We need to hear this. So this is for. This will be just a few minutes on White Lotus. So if you're not a White Lotus viewer or fan. No, you should still listen. I was gonna say you could skip this, but this. Yeah, you don't have to know the show to know what we're talking about. So for context, White Lotus is a show about these, like, very posh resort. And so these three. There's a. It's a. It's an ensemble cast, but there's this three. This storyline for these three friends. And one of them is, like, a very rich actress, and she paid for all of them to come on this trip. And their storyline is all about power dynamics, fake friends, jealousy. You know, it's like a friend group, a triad navigating, and then the final episode. I love Lori. Her name is Lori to me. I resonated with her throughout the whole series, but she's making this speech, and it basically, I'm trying to figure out. I feel like there's many ways you can interpret it, but basically, they were beefing the whole trip. And from my perspective, her friends were gaslighting her. Her friends, they were being jealous. They were talking about each other behind each other's back, even sleeping with the guy that she was interested in. Like, I don't know. To me, it was mad toxic. But at the end, she was kind of, like, giving the speech, like, I'm just happy to be here. I'm just. I'm happy to be here. I feel like the speech kind of gave I made a lot of mistakes in my life and I just gotta take what I can get at this.

[Blue Talousma]

This piece was giving scarcity mindset.

[Sheila Marie]

It was.

[Blue Talousma]

It was mass disseminated scarcity mindset. And here's the thing, as a person who's obsessed with tv, so I love that we're having this conversation.

[Unknown]

Right?

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. Me too. We gotta talk more.

[Blue Talousma]

So, first of all, Mike White. Mike White is a guy who, whenever you think about White Lotus, you think about him the same way you think about Ryan Murphy when you think about American Horror Story. So a lot of times when these white men are not just the creators or showrunners of these shows, they actually become their own characters outside of the show, right? And so everybody's like, oh, my God, Mike White did such a great job writing these characters. And he admits he one day was having lunch and overheard three rich white women talking to each other, and they inspired these characters. So him.

[Sheila Marie]

I was wondering how he wrote those three women so well.

[Blue Talousma]

It was eavesdropping. He was eavesdropping on three rich white women talking and was like, oh, this is amazing. And I actually gave him props earlier in the season saying, this is written very accurately.

[Sheila Marie]

Very.

[Blue Talousma]

Because I'm a high functioning autistic person, right? Which means that everybody thinks I'm normal until they stop dropping hints. And suddenly they're like, oh, she got something, because she's not picking up the hints. I don't pick up nonverbal social cues. Feminine relationships are socialized to be non verbal and passive aggressive and toxic. So the reason why I have so many guy friends is because.

[Sheila Marie]

Wait, break that down just a little bit for me.

[Blue Talousma]

Women are told that they have to be nice more than be honest.

[Sheila Marie]

Ooh.

[Blue Talousma]

We are socialized to be people pleasers. We are socialized to be nice. And we are socialized that being nice should come above everything else, including integrity. And because of that, a lot of feminine friendships are nice. Nasty, where I have a grievance. But if I tell you the truth, my womanhood is in question. So I'm gonna be nice and nasty at the same time, because I can't just call a thing by its name. Men are socialized, to be blunt, and then keep it pushing. So as an autistic woman, I socialize like a man, not because I'm a pick me, but because my brain doesn't let me do those games. Like, y'all are dropping hints and I'm confused the entire time.

[Sheila Marie]

You know what? You just. This really enlightened me hearing you say that. Because I feel like that's gotten to me, Gotten me in so much trouble over the course of my life with female friendships, because I just thought I was being honest. And to me, being honest is, like, a top priority. But then I'm honest, and all of a sudden, oh, I messed up the vibe. I killed the vibe. Everybody's mad like, why did you say that? You shouldn't have said that. And I'm like, oh, okay. So we're lying.

[Blue Talousma]

Because lying is considered feminine. That's why cattiness is always superimposed on us, even when we're being reasonable. We're supposed to be emotional creatures who lack logic and who are ruled by emotion when the truth is, statistically speaking, we actually come off more logical than a lot of men. But the researchers who say that we're less logical, we're men themselves. So trash in, trash out, lock it. Yeah. So I love. I have male friends and female friends who are also outliers. If there is a smart, pretty tomboy who's felt misunderstood her whole life, we're probably gonna be besties, right? Because she knows what it's like to be a threat without realizing it and to shame the devil while just speaking the truth and piss off the entire room and then find out last why they're all mad at her. So those are my people. That's my channel.

[Sheila Marie]

There's a lot of weeding through. There's a lot of guesswork, and, oh, I'm sorry. You're saying something, but you mean something else. Am I supposed to interpret that? That I can't do any of that? Like, if you cannot give it to me straight, you expect me to do all this guesswork, and y'all are feeling away and talking with each other like they were in the series but not telling me, and I'm supposed to just guess, and I'm the bad person if I don't guess? Like, I ain't got. I'm not playing Clue. I have no time to be guessing games with y'all.

[Blue Talousma]

This is why I knew I loved you. And the funny thing is, when I had tagged you on a post I wrote about women who offend people's sensibilities. That's because I saw that in you. I was like, she is a bright light. Her haters must be extra salty.

[Sheila Marie]

They are, girl.

[Blue Talousma]

They must be mad when you walk in the room, honey, I can spot one of my. I was like, you pissed me.

[Sheila Marie]

I feel like, yeah, my spirit just be setting them demons off, and they supposed to.

[Blue Talousma]

The light is supposed to offend the darkness. So I'm doing my job. I just work here, Correct?

[Sheila Marie]

Correct.

[Blue Talousma]

I don't work.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm doing my job.

[Blue Talousma]

I just worked eavesdropping a woman who do socialize in the way that women are taught to socialize. And so he did an excellent job in speaking to the trauma and the dysfunction. Where he failed in my eyes was he had a moment in the monologue, in the finale where that young lady says to her friend who, you know, that friend who thinks she's prettier than you or cuter than you or flyer than you, so she'll try to hook you up with somebody the whole time. It's because she knows she could have them if she wanted. So she likes knowing that whoever you have, I could really help.

[Sheila Marie]

I could get them.

[Blue Talousma]

I could get them. Right? That whole dynamic is nasty on so many levels. That could be a whole part of its own.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, it was disgusting the way they were downplaying that.

[Blue Talousma]

It's diabolical. And I don't use that word often, but it actually is diabolical. And the reason why that speech bothered me wasn't because it wasn't accurate, right? Because the problem is we think the word natural means good. Arsenic is natural. Just because something is natural doesn't mean it's healthy. Right? So a lot of people related to the speech she made when she said, I have no purpose, I've made bad decisions. My children didn't make me feel fulfilled, my marriage didn't make me feel fulfilled, my career didn't make me feel fulfilled. But sitting here with familiar friends who don't always have my back, who don't always speak kindly to me, but we've known each other for so long, all the time that we've invested in each other, at least there's some depth than that. That is disgusting to me because what you're saying is people get to sit around and collect dust and they get merit for that. To be able to dishonor you in your face, right? It means that it's too late to start over. And because I've known you for 25 years, that means even though you're a horrible friend, you're a grandfather. Then because I have a lack mindset that I can't start over. I had a best friend of 24 years. I caught him talking shit about me. He was dismissed that day. Not because I'm unforgiving, but because when I gave him an opportunity to fix it, he showed me he was committ to playing victim. And that's dangerous to me. And empowered women cannot have friends who are committed to playing victim. Because we're gonna always piss you off.

[Sheila Marie]

Empowered women cannot have friends that are committed to playing victim.

[Blue Talousma]

Cannot. It's a liability. In my class, I teach about assets versus liabilities. Oprah always says, the reason why Gayle King is my best friend is because Gayle King doesn't want to be Oprah.

[Unknown]

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[Blue Talousma]

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[Sheila Marie]

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[Blue Talousma]

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[Sheila Marie]

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[Blue Talousma]

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[Sheila Marie]

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[Blue Talousma]

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[Sheila Marie]

Wow. Wow. I am so blessed that I get to do this just and have these conversations. I just. Every time I open my laptop, I start my recording to do another podcast. I feel like women are so brilliant and I'm surrounded by the most brilliant minds because I didn't think about it like that. The last thing I'll say about that scene is just that I felt it was tragic and sad, but it was honest. I think I see that a lot. She said. She basically said in so many words, I don't really believe in myself to have anything great. I gave it a shot. It didn't work. I'm resigned to this. But the only thing I do have is time. And time is really my religion or my, my, my. My higher power, in a sense. And the fact that I knew you guys for this long, at least, it means something. I feel like that she had to cling on in that moment and not saying it's aspirational, but it is just a moment in Lori's character development. And who knows what she did after this. After this, maybe she went home and had an epiphany and redefined her friendships or. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know.

[Blue Talousma]

No, as a character, I think this is. This is where I agree with you. And then, and then what comes next is that if it was just that and the audience was that smart. Yay. Oh, I see. My concern is people are applauding it as a mantra about what real friendship and community looks like. If you go on TikTok, people were like, oh, my God, this speech is so relatable. And it's highlighting what real friendship means. No, it's not. It's highlighting what bad friendship looks like. People, when they find something relatable, don't critically think that relatable doesn't mean aspirational. A familiar devil. They've done studies on this. Familiar dysfunctions are often applauded more than unfamiliar, healthy tactics. Something can be healthy for you, but if it's unfamiliar, it will always be an L. If something is horrible but familiar, you will always lean towards it. It's a scarcity mindset. And the audience on TikTok, on Instagram, on Twitter and Threads, I went on four different platforms, people are applauding it, saying, oh, my God, this is why, you know, even though me, my day one's got problems. No, no, no, no. And there's an irresponsibility to that. That makes me nervous as a coach. It makes me very nervous because to give people permission to keep on hanging on to their ain't shit friends. Sorry. Right.

[Sheila Marie]

Time doesn't equal quantity or quality. It doesn't, you know, the quantity of time doesn't equal quality. And I talked about this in my book. Also my. There was a whole chapter on female friendships. And because, yeah, length of time does not mean because you have a shared experience with someone, doesn't mean you have shared values, shared beliefs, you know, shared. You know that you guys are going in the same direction. It just means you have a long history of shared time. Same thing with familial dynamics. You have shared DNA. Doesn't mean you have shared beliefs or doesn't mean you share the same outlook on the world or yourself. So I definitely think this is something that we can take away from White Lotus and apply to our lives. Because I know, I know me for a long time, I hung onto friendships that Were just long, that's it. They weren't necessarily beneficial to my highest self, weren't necessarily propelling me forward. I was actually feeling minimized and dismissed in a lot of ways. But you know what I did though? I internalized the idea that you're a good person if you somehow have people that have been in your life since you were a child. Like, look at me. You were taught that I didn't change. Look at me. I still have right? And she doesn't have new friends. Like, it must be something wrong with her.

[Blue Talousma]

You know what movie taught me better from that? Love Jones. There's an infamous scene in Love Jones when she's with her ex fiance and he's like, are you gonna leave after all these years? And she was like, all we have is these years. I remember being a kid, like, oh, let's change something in my brain. I was like, oh yeah, all you have is these years. That's it. That's all you got.

[Sheila Marie]

That's it and all. Yeah, period. So thank you for that breakdown. That was very unexpected and beautiful and I love it.

[Blue Talousma]

I know I was not on the itinerary, but White Lotus had me hot today. I was like, oh, no, don't wanna make new friends. Oh no.

[Sheila Marie]

Like, wait a minute.

[Blue Talousma]

No, Lori, no.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, okay, so let's, let's get back to you, huh? What is a totally random but recent obsession of yours that's bringing you joy?

[Blue Talousma]

Bringing me joy. Paradise, another show. Oh, I love paradise for some reason. First of all, I love tv, so I think anything.

[Sheila Marie]

Me too. Why do you love tv?

[Blue Talousma]

Related? Because when I was a kid, I wanted to see a world bigger than the world that I knew. You know what I mean? Like, my world was so small and when I threw books and television, I was like, oh my God, there's a big world out there. And I realized that my family was not gonna be able to take me where I needed to go. So I used to use TV and movies and books. Malcolm X was the first movie I ever saw. And I grew up in Boston. White Ass Boston. Watching crazy. Yeah. So go harder. Go. There was more out there. And I think the thing about television and film is it creates universes, right? And a lot of people, you can either use it to escape or you could use it to face yourself. I like television. That does a little bit of both. I also realized that I've started doing a lot of walking because a lot of us have some high functioning depression because of the world burning outside of our windows. And I didn't realize until maybe a month ago that I was ruminating. Like, ruminating is the thing you do when you're constantly thinking about your problems, but you still have to get through the day. That's a sign of high functioning depression. And so what I've made myself do is every day, no matter how busy I am, I leave my house and I walk for 30 minutes and I put on a playlist or a podcast or listen to something amazing and just see some world. Like get some vitamin D and get some sun. Not a day party, not drinking, just actually just being with nature, which sounds very old school. I'm realizing that all the things we used to judge the old people for, I'm like, oh, that makes sense.

[Sheila Marie]

So simple. But they work.

[Blue Talousma]

I've been doing this stretch in the park. Now I get it. Because the joints are going to crack if you don't.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, literally, I'm like, I'm cracking up the stairs and down the stairs. Oh, no, ma'am. I'm stretching every day. I'm getting my joints. I'm like, we not doing that right.

[Blue Talousma]

And also skincare, too. I realized that I'm become obsessed with skin care. If the world is going to end, I wanna. I wanna look as close to 12 as possible.

[Sheila Marie]

And I'm not about to fight y'all over no can of beans, baby. I'm not about to do it. I'm not about to make little knives out of out of sticks and all this and hunt. Nah, nah, nah. Y'all got it. Like, it's okay. I'm gonna go ahead and be with my ancestors. I'm gonna be cute. And we just gonna watch y'all and figure out what's next because I'm not about to be walking dead with y'all.

[Blue Talousma]

Shout out to Kelis for getting her 40 acres and having a farm. She's already ready for the apocalypse.

[Sheila Marie]

Kelis is. I don't look up too much people. I very much look up to Kelis.

[Blue Talousma]

She's ready for the apocalypse. She's ready for all of this.

[Sheila Marie]

Like, literally. I love the way I'm like, she just be looking fine, looking healthy, selling her little products.

[Blue Talousma]

Moisturized. Moisturized.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. I love it. She won. So let me talk about you. You're an amazing, prolific writer. In one of your essays, you wrote, our softness is not a weakness, it's a reclamation. When did you first realize that softness was something you had to reclaim rather than earn?

[Blue Talousma]

When my aunt died from being strong. So all the women in my family are very strong, and they pride themselves on. My grandma's name is Vesta. That's like a God of some sort. Her name is Vesta. Like, she's like a big old princess warrior, right? And my grandpa's name was innocent. Innocent, right. And so I grew up in a family of, like, alpha women and tender, soft men who weaponize incompetence. And I started realizing that the women were dropping dead of diseases that come from being strong. And I was like, no, I don't want to be the person who, when I hit 70, I have all these autoimmune disorders and hypertension and stress related ailments because I never sat down and, like, took care of myself. I don't want to be the person who's like, oh, my heart's too big and, you know, I work too hard, but I love you all. Like, I don't want to be a martyr. And so when my mom got sick after my aunt passed away, I was like, oh, being strong is killing the women in my family. Yeah, let's not do that. What's the opposite of that? And that's when I realized a lot of times, when you watch TV or if you even watch the news, who do people feel compassion towards? Damsels, White women, Women who are soft. There's something in our brains where in order for you to be worthy of compassion, you have to be vulnerable. And I was like, well, I would like some compassion. Shit. I would like some.

[Sheila Marie]

Well, I want a little bit.

[Blue Talousma]

I want a little bit. And then I also had a breakup where I realized that I had a partner who had hardened me. And I was like, the next time I date someone, I want to date someone who doesn't inspire me to be hard. So I worked on being softer just all the time with my guy friends, right? A lot of women don't realize this. If you want to attract healthier romantic relationships or just healthier relationships with men in general, you can't be combating them to see whose dick is bigger. Like, there's this interesting thing that happens where we've been taught as black women in particular, that we have to be proud of how strong we are. But what happens to something that is too strong? It becomes brittle and weak. Too much strength actually is a weakness. But if you look at, like, leather, right? Like, buttery leather, when it becomes supple, it actually becomes invincible. Leather becomes softer with wear and tear. Life just makes it nicer and more buttery, soft. So I was like, I think softness makes more sense than strength. And softness doesn't mean that I Don't have any strength. It just means I don't lead with it. Right. I command rather than demand. Because demanding means I don't trust you. Command means I trust me.

[Sheila Marie]

How did you work through that? Because it sounds like. Because you're Haitian, right?

[Blue Talousma]

Haitian and Cuban.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, and Cuban.

[Blue Talousma]

All my magic comes from my Cuban side. None of my magic comes from my Haitian side.

[Sheila Marie]

Are you Afro Cuban?

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. I have my white, white Cuban. My mom, like, my side of the family is Cuban, but the Euro side.

[Blue Talousma]

But I want you to know the difference. People act like Cuba is a race. I'm like, you know, it's just a country, right?

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, no, no, no. I had to be very clear, baby. Cause the way the racial dynamics are.

[Blue Talousma]

Set up in Cuba, Latin America's 50 years behind America. America.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's very. You need to know.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

So, yeah, with Cuban culture, too, there's very. There's like a very strong adherence to very strict gender roles. And you sound like you were navigating outside of that. How did that work with you being Haitian and Cuban?

[Blue Talousma]

Well, I had to realize that not everything that we get from our grandmother, like, we act like we have to be revolutionary by starting from scratch. And I was like, there's some things from the new age that I think are really revolutionary and great. And there's some things from the old school that I think worked. I think what happens with a lot of new age feminists. And I'm not a feminist. I'm a womanist, by the way, because I. I don't, like, shout out to Alice Walker. Yeah. Like, I believe in womanism, not feminism. Because feminism, the way that's been co opted, is not intersectional. So a lot of feminists want you to choose between being a woman or being black. As if only one of them can ruin your life. Right? I'm both at all times. And so I'm a womanist. And I was like. So my high school, like, my feminist friends who are very angry all the time, are making change happen, but they're miserable, Right? And as a coach, people who look good on paper but are miserable in real life come to me. So I was like, y'all talking to talk, and y'all real educated, but y'all are miserable. And my friends who are more old school had really lovely, soft, compassionate relationships, but they were disempowered. So I was like, yeah, neither of you are making sense. I'm gonna be a hybrid. I'm going to be the woman who the men in my life Know that if they're misogynistic, I'm gonna gently point it out. Like, hey, friend, your mansplaining is happening. Can you not? Right. And I might still make you a play and give you the big piece of chicken. Like, I don't have to choose between those two. Being a woman means I get to choose how I show up as a woman. So. And I also think that there's so much power in Latin American and Caribbean culture because we had such fragile men. Our men are so fragile that we had to learn how to, like, mend to broken wings from a place of survival. Right. And we did it in a way that was manipulated for survival. But how do you do it from a place of love?

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[Blue Talousma]

PGW prohibited by law. See terms and conditions 18+. So I was like, if I was gonna act like my mom, but without being disempowered, what would that look like?

[Sheila Marie]

Correct.

[Blue Talousma]

Because she knew not to raise her voice at my daddy because it would make him feel disrespected and go off. But she also didn't check him when he did the same to her. So I started taking pieces from both sides. And that's when I realized being supple is a woman's superpower. A woman who is strong and you know that if she really wanted to, she could bite your head off. And yet she never chooses to because she doesn't have to.

[Sheila Marie]

I love this. And this is really at the core of unruly. My voice.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah. By the way, I love that you're doing unruly. Everything that you're doing. I love, love, love, love, love. I have to say that.

[Sheila Marie]

Tell me more.

[Blue Talousma]

Well, I love the fact that you are the kind of woman that someone would think would be a trophy. And yet you are. You have an intellect and you're compassionate and you have emotional intelligence. It's a bait and switch, right? It is a bait and switch. I love that. I love women.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm gonna post my booty and Then, boom, right? Gonna tell you something.

[Blue Talousma]

Some thoughts, right? I got booty and brains. Why do we have to choose?

[Sheila Marie]

We don't. And like I said, my. My subheading for the book is unruly. Creating your life with authenticity, authentic rebelliousness. And you really speaking. You're speaking to that authentic rebellion. When I started my healing journey, I was just rebellious. I was just, like you said, going against everything. I'm gonna create everything new. I'm gonna create from scratch. I don't like this. I hate men. I don't wanna be married.

[Blue Talousma]

Like, I was just going deviant, deviant, deviant, deviant, deviant.

[Sheila Marie]

There it is.

[Blue Talousma]

It's a performance.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah. And I also feel like the pendulum. Like, when you go to change something, sometimes the pendulum swings a little too far, and then you gotta course correct. And I course corrected. And now where I'm at is like, okay, listen, unruly means being able to choose that. You are choosing which parts of. Let's say, if we're speaking the old and the new, right? Like these traditions that have been passed down versus the ones that you're creating that are new. What parts of these traditions that are passed down actually are very, very beneficial to you and which parts are harmful. And choose not just be like, I'm gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater. And I think that those. When I encounter women like that, I am so inspired. Like me, for example, I will say publicly that I am de centering men. And I am married to a man that I love very much. And people, and sometimes even me, I'm like, oh, how do. How do I hold space for both of those things at the same time? But. But you do. By being flexible, by being that leather that you're talking about, right? Like, I love cooking for him. I love it. I food. I like it when the plate is pretty and I bring it and he likes it, and he's like, oh, this is so good. I love that. I love that. And then there are other ways in which I'm not going to that. That, to me would be like, oh, submission, man.

[Blue Talousma]

Y'all need to be submissive.

[Sheila Marie]

They talk about submissive missive all day online, right? That would be something that's comm. Considered submissive. But I do it from a place of power. I am choosing to do that. And so I love this because we can offer up just if you're listening, you don't have to choose one or the other. It's up to you to pick elements that work towards your highest good and.

[Blue Talousma]

Who Told you you had to choose, by the way. I always told us. Who told us that we had to choose.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, that's a good. Do you know? I don't know.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah, here's the thing. Patriarchy and misogyny. Because my thing is I have no issue with men. I have big issues with misogyny. I tell people all the time, I will never speak out against men. I constantly speak out about misogyny.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, my God, that's such a great reframe. Thank you. Thank you.

[Blue Talousma]

Systems not people. I attack systems not people.

[Sheila Marie]

Love that.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah. So the system of misogyny, foot on neck all day long, men themselves. I like them.

[Sheila Marie]

Me too. I love mine. He's like. All the time, I'm like, yeah, man. Cause yes, I always tell him it's not men. It's the way men are socialized to me or taught. That is off. So you talked about softness before, right. And you talked about the danger of making softness a trend. And I want to know if you can speak more to that.

[Blue Talousma]

Well, here's the thing, right? One of the things that I'm constantly telling my clients is ask yourself why you're doing it. Because we always say, it's not what you say, it's how you say it. I would push back. It's not what you say or how you say, it's why you said it. Because I know a lot of people who can say things really nicely who are so full of shit. I know a lot of people who have mastered how to say it, and they're still completely full of it. Why are you doing it? Because I feel like women in particular, I think we all do it, but women in particular are taught to perform. You could be doing the right thing for the wrong reason. Right. And so if you're performing revolution and deviance, you're going to want to just say provocative shit to get a reaction. There's nothing honorable about that. Right. I know a girl who's going around and has a huge platform saying that she's, you know, she's polyamorous and that she's free love and X, Y and Z. She's the biggest pick. Me, I know in real life. But it's sexy to say all that because it creates a brand for her. Right. But in real life, she's operating from a scarcity mindset that you usually see in Pickmes. She's performing revolution while chasing after men and flying them out. Like, think about that.

[Sheila Marie]

Not they getting flew out.

[Blue Talousma]

You're flying out grown men, but claiming that you're into poly and misandry and all. Like, I'm like, honey, something in the water ain't clean. Right? But because you are so stuck on feeling like you're a rebel rouser, you don't want to admit that you are acting like your grandma's worst fears at the same time. And on the other end, there are women who are incredibly performative about being homemakers, who act like their entire values is in house and home and nothing else. Right. And they resent women who are free and empowered. And so my thing is, if you're do, why are you doing it? Fuck what you're doing, why are you doing it? I could watch two people doing the same thing and they're doing it for completely different reasons and their hearts feel different to me. And I think that's why too. As an outspoken black woman, I have to always wait for someone to realize I'm not that outspoken black woman. Because there's an archetype of the black woman who tells it like it is and fuck everybody and, and, and, and, and you can't tell her nothing. And, and I can't tell you how many men I've met who were like, I can't believe how reasonable you are. I was like, why did you think I wasn't gonna be reasonable? Oh, cause. Because women like you are usually ball busters and you can't tell them nothing. I was like, I'm always asking questions. I want you to tell me everything. Because I'm not doing it for the performance. Right? If you're doing it because you want to sincerely connect with people, that is honorable. That's why I talk about the truth all the time. Authenticity is often a scam. People are usually authentic as a performance. If you are telling the truth because you want to feel superior or you want to shank somebody with the truth, that is a weapon. It is disarmament.

[Sheila Marie]

That is very true.

[Blue Talousma]

The truth, when it is weaponized, I don't want to hear it. I only listen to the truth when it's a bridge to connect. The truth itself can be weaponized. That's not going to impress me that you tell the truth and keep it real.

[Sheila Marie]

Right. There's almost this understanding that if you're telling the truth, it has to be harsh or hurtful or something. Or unkind or punitive. Right? Or punitive. And that truth can also be kind. I saw a real or a TikTok a long time ago go about a guy and he was like, yeah, truth. Truth is kind. And it's about timing for example, if I go to my friend's show and I didn't think the show was very good, right? And she asked me directly after the show, what did you think at that moment? I will say, I am so proud of you for doing this. I think, yeah, I really am so, so bold of you. And then later, if she ask for opinions, I might give her some constructive critic criticism. But it would be honest but very unkind for me in that moment to say, ugh, it wasn't that good. Right? And I feel like people are like, well, I'm just being honest. I'm just being honest. You can't even. Me. I had. I had to learn this too, because I used to interpret being honest was, you know, being edgy and, you know, like. And ultimately hurting people's feelings, even my interpersonal relationships. And I realized, like, oh, okay, you can be honest, but you can also still be kind. Like, what is. Like you said, what is the intention with your honesty?

[Blue Talousma]

That's ego, by the way. That's ego. When people.

[Sheila Marie]

It is ego.

[Blue Talousma]

Say honesty, it's a judgment. You want to feel superior in the moment where your friend has a win and you might not want to address what's happening subconsciously.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes.

[Blue Talousma]

A lot of folks don't realize that they're using honesty to hide their pain. Like, I feel small in this moment, but, ugh, she thinks she's doing so much. Look at that. Her wig is crooked in that scene. I'm going to point that out. Why do you need. I always ask people, why do you need to say it right now? Because the more healed I am, there are things that I think that I don't need to say. No. Part of my ego's being.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, my. The same. Same. I used to say. I used to think in being honest, I should say everything that comes to my mind. I know this is a crazy thing to say, but that's true. And now I'm like, there's so many things that I think that I no longer say. And I'm so happy that I have that restraint now and that ability to. Where before it used to feel like it was going to burst out of me like, tea kettle, I need to say it. And now I'm like, no. Because I can think about the impact that that's going to have, and then what would be the point?

[Blue Talousma]

And your thoughts might evolve. That's the thing. People don't realize this is true. Feelings are instant, but thoughts evolve.

[Sheila Marie]

This is true.

[Blue Talousma]

That's why I tell people all the time, well, if you're having an argument and you get stuck in something and you don't know how to express stuff. Cause I had somebody say to me the other day, she was like blue. Whenever you get upset, you're able to immediately say what you're thinking and X, Y and Z and break it down. And how do I do all that? I said, well, first, how do you feel? Because the feeling is instant. So I always start with the feeling. I don't start with the. If you say something that makes me uncomfortable, I don't tell you the eight ways you have me effed up. I say, hey, I feel uncomfortable in this moment. That didn't feel good how you said that. Can we take a moment? I always talk about my feeling first and give my thoughts time to grow and evolve. Because something you feel in the moment is real, but something you think about that moment is a judgment. It's an assumption. Give it time to see if it's true or not. There's a lot of things that are true in the moment in your mind that when you pan out, you're like, oh, I must. I missed that part. I was tripping, right?

[Sheila Marie]

I look back and disagree with myself all the time.

[Blue Talousma]

Which is good. The fact that you can do that. Wait, When's your birthday?

[Sheila Marie]

April 10th. Coming up in three days.

[Blue Talousma]

I love April babies. I'm an April baby too. Are you.

[Sheila Marie]

Are you an Aries? Yes.

[Blue Talousma]

No, I'm an Aries Taurus. Cuz.

[Sheila Marie]

A Taurus. You're an Aries Taurus Cup.

[Blue Talousma]

The Tauruses don't. Don't really count as April babies because we're too. We're too Faya. Faya.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah. I'm like Mataurus.

[Blue Talousma]

Feel different. They feel like they're really not moving.

[Sheila Marie]

No, that's my husband. He's a May Taurus.

[Blue Talousma]

That's a great husband sign, by the way.

[Sheila Marie]

It is.

[Blue Talousma]

Taurus is a great sign for a husband and father.

[Sheila Marie]

They love being married.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And they are very loyal.

[Blue Talousma]

Cancers and Libras. If they have gotten through their whole phase, that's loyal.

[Sheila Marie]

So wait, why do you say Taurus men are good husbands? Are they Taurus?

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah, the goddess. Well, Taurus in general, men are great husbands because it's Venus, the goddess of pleasure and love. And because men are socialized to not embrace those things. Taurus men come with in their DNA already.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh yeah.

[Blue Talousma]

The thing that they're taught to denounce. They can't help being lover boys. In fact, they have to work to not be lover boys. I like that. That's so true.

[Sheila Marie]

I tell him all the time. I'm not gonna say that in public, but I say that all the time.

[Blue Talousma]

I know I love me a lover boy. I love a man who is a man and still understands that his feelings are important.

[Sheila Marie]

The. The combination of softness and strength is really elite to me.

[Blue Talousma]

It's elite in all of us.

[Sheila Marie]

It's elite.

[Blue Talousma]

It's elite in women. It's elite in men. And you mentioned submission earlier. I have an unpopular take on the word submission.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay.

[Blue Talousma]

So I used to be a part of the kink community. I no longer am because mother got old, my knees don't work the same, and crying. One of the things I loved about my foray into sexual deviance was I didn't realize how much integrity people in the kink community have to have. When you're doing things on the margins, things have to be explicit, right? We're not trying to get arrested. We don't want nobody to die. Like, we actually have to talk about the thing, right? So the kid community is actually really emotionally intelligent as a collective out of necessity. And there was one person I met who was a submissive. And I used to hate that word, like, I'm not a submissive. I'm a badass bitch. And one day she was talking about how beautiful it felt as a strong woman to surrender to someone she trusted. She was like, when I say submission, I think about surrender. And over the last couple of years, through my work, I've realized that men and women take turns submitting in healthy relationships. When a woman is being nurturing, her man is submitting to her. She is holding him to her breast and he's acting like, you know, she's the big spoon. And when a man is protecting you from any kind of harm, you're submitting to him in that moment. We actually, in a beautiful relationship, take turns submitting. It doesn't have to be the super strict biblical version that people use to thump on people. Submitting to your partner in turns actually feels really safe. That version of submission, I think is sexy as hell.

[Sheila Marie]

I actually agree with you 100% there.

[Blue Talousma]

I think it's real sexy.

[Sheila Marie]

What's your take on the soft life movement?

[Blue Talousma]

I think the soft life movement, like all things started off with good intentions and they got co opted by those who wanted to perform. People who are broken will always find something that makes sense and make it not make sense anymore.

[Sheila Marie]

What do you mean?

[Blue Talousma]

Too much of anything is bad. So for me, soft life was supposed to mean tapping into the part of You. That doesn't deify struggle. Because especially as women, we're taught that, like, well, if you didn't struggle for it, did you really earn it? Yeah. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

Right?

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah. I'm a. I like me a hookup. Cause we only say things are unfair when they don't work in our favor. Right. Like, if you were to find a hundred dollar bill on the floor right now, would you say, it's not fair, I didn't earn it. I'm not gonna pick it up. No, you're taking a hundred dollar bill, right?

[Sheila Marie]

Period?

[Blue Talousma]

Yes, I'm taking the $100 bill. Right. But that wasn't fair, was it? You didn't do anything to earn it. We only say things aren't fair when it's working against us. I've let go of fairness versus unfair. And my thing is, do I think I'm worthy of it? And if the answer is yes, thank you. Please.

[Sheila Marie]

And this is what I had to learn in my whole fertility journey.

[Blue Talousma]

Oh.

[Sheila Marie]

Because at the beginning, I was like, it's not fair. It's not fair. It's not fair. Like, there are women who get pregnant on accident, and people get abortions and they don't even want them, and da, da, da. And I had to really let go of that and realize that a certain level that was tied to ego for me.

[Blue Talousma]

Absolutely ego.

[Sheila Marie]

And. Yeah. And really, that was actually such a gift. I honestly think when I say, like, all the miscarriages and surgeries and things I went to was such a gift for me because I was forced to reckon with a really core part of myself that I never would have been able to have a conversation with otherwise. Why do you want it? Like you said, why are you doing it? What do you hope to get out of this experience? And I was like, wow, you know what? When I do become a mother, I'll become. I'll be entering in such a more healthy way because I'm not entering it from a need space. Like, I need you to come here and prove my worth to me. I need you to come here and fill this hole in my heart. Right. I was like, mm, mm. It was almost like the way I. I'm a very spiritual person. The way I interpret it was like, I have a relationship with my two. I've always seen them as spirit kids. And they're like, nope, we're not coming like that.

[Blue Talousma]

Nope. You have spirit babies, too?

[Sheila Marie]

Yes, I do.

[Blue Talousma]

I have one spirit baby that's been haunting me. I would like him to leave me alone, but he won't yeah, absolutely.

[Sheila Marie]

Haunting is craz. Just set some boundaries. Like, look, you. You gotta stop. You can communicate me this way, not that way. Okay. But yeah, I be telling them all the time, like, don't scare me because I get very scared. Don't do that. So they don't.

[Blue Talousma]

Well, at least you met a good vessel. Because I. And this is the thing that people don't talk about when it comes to soulmates and spirituality. Because I do so many readings. I always say, don't trust a therapist who doesn't have a therapist or a coach who doesn't have a coach. Yes, healers need to be healed themselves or they create a God complex that makes their ego so big that it actually makes them harder to help the community. Right. And so I was doing a bunch of readings.

[Sheila Marie]

There's a few online right now.

[Blue Talousma]

Oh, several. More than a few. You're being kind. So I was talking to my friend the other day, and I was like, I'm really jealous of my clients. Because whenever I see a client come to me for a reading and they walk away with such clarity, I was like, I don't. I can't do that for myself. My gift doesn't work towards me. For me. Exactly. It doesn't work other people. And so a friend recommended someone to me. She was like, blue, this woman reminds me of you in 10 years. Call her. I call her. She's literally me 10 years from now. I was like, oh, my. We looked. It was like, spider Man. Spider Man. I was like, hey, girl. She's like, hey, girl.

[Sheila Marie]

And then you.

[Blue Talousma]

Wait, has the retrograde been fucking with you too? I was like, yeah, girl, stop playing. And she was like, hey, the guy that you're dating is your soulmate, but he might fuck it up. Oh, and he did. Plot twist. He did. And my spirit baby was attached to him. Yeah. And we don't think about. I hate to say. And I actually was gonna do a video about this later this week. About how everybody says what God has for you is gonna be for you. I don't believe that. I think what God has for you is gonna be offered to you. You can fumble it.

[Sheila Marie]

Interesting. You can fumble it interesting people. Wait, can we back up a second? Your gifts. What are your gifts?

[Blue Talousma]

I'm a Claire Sentient and a Claire Cognizant. Which means if we're having a conversation, I didn't know the name until I got older. Cause my friends were like, girl, this is a thing. You need to look this up. So if you're talking to me and you're telling me a story within a couple of minutes of you talking about the story, about what happened between you and your husband or your friends, I start to hear their feelings and feel what they're feeling.

[Sheila Marie]

No way.

[Blue Talousma]

So I'm giving feedback not based on my opinion, but what I'm feeling from the story. Like I have a deep sense of knowing and feeling as if I'm. And a lot of times people would be like, blue. He literally said that to me. I'm like, oh, okay. I thought that was normal until my friends pulled me aside. I was working at the Griot and one of our editors, who's agnostic, she doesn't believe in anything. She and I were talking one day and I was like, hey, this is gonna sound really weird and I don't wanna be offensive, but I felt a message for your son. Are you comfortable with me sharing it? Or we could just move on. Because my thing is I just work here, so if you don't want it, I don't have to give it. This is Wendy's drive thru around. Yeah, zero ego, right? Especially if it's free. I get paid for this. She was like, no, tell me. I told her she got really, really quiet and she was like, blue. I'm not sure I believe in God, but I 100% believe you were with.

[E]

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[Blue Talousma]

No purchase NECESSARY VGW group VOID where prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply. I was like. So they resonated. She was like, yeah. So when you're a Claire Sensor, Claire cognizant. My friends make fun of me all the time. Estelle had me at her, at her dinner for Christmas. I said, friend, you know, when I drink, my gift gets a little loose because it brings down the barrier. She's like, love. I know exactly who I invited in my house. It's okay, child. By the end, I was giving whole readings to everybody at the dinner table.

[Sheila Marie]

That kind of sounds fun.

[Blue Talousma]

Like, like seven people got a full reading on Christmas.

[Sheila Marie]

Are you serious?

[Blue Talousma]

And I'm looking at her like, she's like, it's okay. I was like, oh, okay. And I realized I have friends who, they understand my gift. They can tell that I can't help because I don't want it. I don't want the gift, actually. And I think that's why I got it. Because someone who wants it has ego attached to it. Somebody who doesn't want it is like, I'm just a vessel, child. I don't know why they chose me. Because I'm a, I'm a journalist. I'm the person who would demystify and try to debunk spirituality if I wasn't a witch myself.

[Sheila Marie]

Correct.

[Blue Talousma]

I'm the girl who wouldn't believe if I didn't have no choice. And I do think that a lot of times people don't realize that soft life is supposed to be centering you, right? Not making you a spectacle. People make a spectacle out of soft life. Soft life means doing a thing that feels good to you in an authentic way. It doesn't mean that you have to make sure that everybody knows that you're not going to do it because you're living soft life. A lot of people who talk about having a soft life life are not the ones who are living it. People who are living it, other people tell them, if you are living a soft life, other people will tell you. You don't have to go around screaming it from the rooftops. And being lazy is not the same thing as being soft. Not the same thing.

[Sheila Marie]

Elaborate.

[Blue Talousma]

Lazy means that there's something that I know needs to be done for me to get to the place that I deserve and that I. I desire. And I'm gonna play victim or procrastinate and just not do it. Soft means I'm constantly checking my bandwidth to figure out how much energy I have to give to it today.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, okay. I love that.

[Blue Talousma]

Bandwidth management. That's what an actual soft life is. Today I'm at 40%. I had a whole list of things to do, but I'm at 40%. I'm gonna be kind to myself and only do half the list. But I'm gonna make sure that I rest tonight so tomorrow I actually finish. That's soft life life. When I don't have it, I don't give it. Generosity means giving what you have to give, Right? Softness means only giving it when you actually have it to give. Martyrs will just do it anyways. That's the other extreme of soft life, by the way. Die when you sleep, Die when you sleep. And soft life are two extremes. And extremes are always mirrors. I'm in the middle, living an actual soft life. Well, I'll do it, but I'm gonna take my time. Child, you're not offending rush me. Yep, I'm also a Taurus. You're just not finna rush me in general.

[Sheila Marie]

You're not. And yes, I can attest you're absolute.

[Blue Talousma]

Have you ever tried to rush a tourist?

[Sheila Marie]

I have. It does not work. Nothing. It's there. Your. Your animal is a bull, right? And just imagine trying to push a bull. It's not going to happen.

[Blue Talousma]

Well, just imagine trying to disrupt Venus. Our animal is a bull and our goddess is Venus. The goddess of pleasure is not going to be rash. What are you doing? That's not pleasing to me at all.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, I want to switch and talk about ethical non monogamy.

[Blue Talousma]

Let's get into it.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, let's get into it. How do. First, how do you define ethical non monogamy?

[Blue Talousma]

I think the name is perfect. It's not even ethical.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, okay, perfect.

[Blue Talousma]

It doesn't mean that you have an excuse to be community peen and not tell nobody I'm crying.

[Sheila Marie]

What does it look like for you, huh? Like, what does it look like in practice?

[Blue Talousma]

Well, I'm no longer ethically non monogamous.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay.

[Blue Talousma]

Because I realized that those of us who are good at it are too few and far in between for me. Right. The men that I was attracted to were not as good at it as I would need them to be to feel safe so I could be really good at misandry. Like I could have three or four partners and very in Fact, the spiritual advisor that I spoke to said that she was like, you could have three partners, they would all feel safe and loved, as if they were the one and only. People that I tried to date when I was poly could not do the same for me. So I didn't stop being poly because I was bad at it. I stopped being poly because my bar was too high for the others.

[Sheila Marie]

Interesting.

[Blue Talousma]

I was like, I'll just give me one person, then. Let's. Let's just.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, it sounds like a lot of work to manage, right?

[Blue Talousma]

It's not work. It's skill.

[Sheila Marie]

It's skill. Okay.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah. If you're highly emotionally intelligent, ethical, non monogamy isn't super hard if it makes sense for you.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay.

[Blue Talousma]

But if you're not emotionally intelligent and you think that because you can't stop cheating on people, you need to be poly, it's still going to be hard for you.

[Sheila Marie]

How did you start this journey? Were you always ethically non monogamous?

[Blue Talousma]

I was raised in the church. Well, here's the thing. I went through a sexual something. I was engaged twice very young, and I was like, oh, my boyfriend keep proposing to me. I'm too young for this. I just. I would like to see other penises real quick, period. I just want to touch stuff and just see what's out there. I'm a Gemini rising, so we like to just, you know, we want to see who else is out there. Just want to be out there. So I was like, I keep getting engaged every time I'm in a monogamous relationship. Maybe monogamy is the issue. You. So I'm gonna try to be non monogamous so I can do some whole shit and see what's out there. I was in my 20s, I didn't know no better, and so I was out there laying it low and spreading wild child. My 20s was, you had a good time, I had a good decade. You had a good decade. Your whole face should not be 10 years. Mind your business. Okay? I'm a slow learner.

[Sheila Marie]

Leave me alone. Worry about yourself, sister.

[Blue Talousma]

Worry about yourself. I was having me a good time, and then I fell in love. And my partner was not emotionally intelligent enough to keep me safe in a poly situation. And I felt this thing of, hey, I have a best friend that I've had my entire life, and every year I love him more and more and more and more and more. So I know that I can love one person in one specific way and the love can deepen. Right. I thought that me being poly was going to be able to do that romantically. What if the love that I have on my best friend, my male best friend, what if I found somebody romantically that I could love like that? I don't think I need to have a bunch of partners to have that depth. I think I just need to have better partners. And so I said, actually, guys, I think I'm gonna try monogamy because I think a lot of you are using non monogamy as an excuse to be bad people.

[Sheila Marie]

Really?

[Blue Talousma]

Oh, a lot of. Here's the thing. Actual ethically non monogamous people exist. They're highly emotionally intelligent. They have clear communication skills. They have the same life track that they're on. It's. It's a real thing. It's just a lot more rare than we think. It's like narcissism. Narcissism is a real thing, but only like 5 to 10% of the population is actually narcissistic. Right. There's only like a small percentage of people who are actual diagnosed narcissists. And yet we use that term a lot as if it's like seasoning sauce. I think there's a minority of people who are really good at ethical non monogamy and excellent at it and have thriving lives. And then there's a bigger group of folks who just don't know how to be monogamous because they haven't dealt with their trauma, who think ethical non monogamy is a way to a cheat code to not have to go to therapy.

[Sheila Marie]

They're trying to escape themselves.

[Blue Talousma]

But here's the thing. You still cheat in a poly relationship. Wherever you go, there you are. So if you lacked integrity being monogamous, you're still gonna lack integrity in a poly relationship. You're just disappointing more people. Simple.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. Yeah, I. I tried it. Not for me. Yeah, in my 20s.

[Blue Talousma]

Now I know I can't do it. The older I get, girl, I can't do it. You know why? The depth of rediscovering somebody that you love year after year and seeing different iterations of them and pouring into that, it's sexy in a way that me and my 20s didn't know was possible.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, so is this not what Lori was talking about? The time is the religion?

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah, but she wasn't. My issue with her in time is with her and the friends. Okay, so I do think I do like the time part of her speech. I don't like the fact that those who just sat around like an empty bucket collecting water are being Associated with that. Right. I have a thing we call the plumber versus the bucket. If you were to have a leak right now in your kitchen and the plumber said, I couldn't be there till tomorrow, what would you do? You would grab a bucket until the plumber comes. You're grateful for that bucket, right? The bucket's not fixing anything. It's just a placeholder. The plumber is who's gonna actually fix it. A lot of people in our lives are buckets. They don't make us better. They're just holding space with us. So I don't want any friends who are just empty buckets waiting to be filled because they were just sitting around. I want friends who can actually improve my life because they're equipped to do so. I don't mind the time thing. I actually agree with her that. And funny enough that me and that actress are the same age. I agree with her. I know child black women and white women when they're the same age. Look, very fix your face, I think. Is there a video component of this? Me and Karen are the same age. I think I'm like six months older than her. And I don't like the idea that when you get old, you get tired and you stop having standards. That's the part of her speech I didn't like about Ty. I do agree that Aaliyah was wrong. And age is not just a number.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, that's a whole nother episode right there.

[Blue Talousma]

Gave her those lines. But age.

[Sheila Marie]

He wrote that track for her.

[Blue Talousma]

Age deepens time, deepens understanding.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes, it does.

[Blue Talousma]

It matters. Time actually matters a whole lot. If you are a 25 year old who's been through a lot and you see me in my early 40s and I've been through a lot, you don't get to tell me that we're the same. Because if you're this wise now imagine you in 20 years, that's called me. That counts.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. Yeah. And time does move the same for everybody.

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah. Time doesn't move the same for people who are lazy?

[Sheila Marie]

No, not at all.

[Blue Talousma]

Or committed to being victims.

[Sheila Marie]

Committed to being victims. How do you know someone is committed to being a victim when I don't.

[Blue Talousma]

Hear the member take accountability for things that are clearly their responsibility?

[Sheila Marie]

Can someone change?

[Blue Talousma]

Absolutely, if they want to. A lot of people don't want to change. They just want to talk about change.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow, that's huge. I see that everywhere. And you know what? Even me, I had to find myself, like, talking about certain healing things. I'm like, no, don't bring it online yet. Don't bring it online. Work on it. Let it integrate into the cells and really get the lesson learned. Because why are you speaking about it right now? Like, what's the intention? To share, to look good. You want people to feel like, wow, you're so evolved, or whatever it is. Love that, love that. Self accountability is huge. And yeah, people who play victim also are like energy vampires. Because it's always. You're always going to. There's always gonna be a crisis. There's always gonna be outside external factors. And to me, they don't have the ability to curate the things that they want from the inside. So they're always like usurping energy from outside. Yeah, it's very, very draining.

[Blue Talousma]

Also too. People who think they're harmless are liars, and so they're dangerous. To me, people pleasers are people who are convinced that they're harmless.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, people. Yeah, it's. Personally, I feel like people pleasing can be very manipulative.

[Blue Talousma]

No, it's only manipulative. Yes, it's only manipulative because physically impossible to please people as a defining character trait. And be honest. Physically impossible.

[Sheila Marie]

Right?

[Blue Talousma]

So you're inherently a liar. The minute I mean, the people pleaser, I'm like, oh, wow, you're a really charming liar. I've been told to stop saying that at dinner party. So I say it in classes.

[Sheila Marie]

I can like sense people pleasers and they scare me, like, because I feel.

[Blue Talousma]

They'Re cruel human beings.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, it scares me. I'm like, nah, nah, let me say my difference because at the end of the day, you're not gonna be honest and I, I don't know how.

[Blue Talousma]

When you're not in the room, though. People pleasers are only honest when they're talking shit. I have this thing that I. I told a friend a long time ago. I was like, who is the most fun person to talk shit with in the car ride home? Your nice friend. The nice friend will be smiling in everybody's face at the function, right? And you look crazy. Cause you're like, eh, eh, what's happening? They're like, no, it's okay, girl. What happens the minute you get in the car? Big shit talking, right? Nice people talk the most shit. Nice people are cruel. I do not have any nice friends. And let's talk about that real quick before anybody takes it out of context. Having a moment of something is definitely being a defining character trait. Having a moment of niceness is not the same thing as you being known as a dice Girl, right? When niceness is a defining character trait, you have to tell a whole lot of lies for everybody to agree on that. You have to tell a whole lot of lies for your niceness to be your pride. Right? I could have a nice moment, but nobody walking around saying, blue's a nice girl. They'll be like, blue's really sweet. Blue's really smart. Blue's really compassionate. Don't lie to Blue. She might snap at you. But ain't nobody walking around saying, blue's the nicest girl to ever live. Right? That sweetness that we've been taught to kind of spoon seed to people, it's dishonest. And what happens is when niceness is a defining character trait, you've gotten so good at lying to everybody and telling them what they want to hear, deep down, you have silenced your true truth. What happens when somebody silences their truth? They begin to resent it. What happens when somebody resents being silenced even though they did it to themselves? They become angry. Because anger is a facsimile for power. If you can't be powerful, just be angry. Right? And what do angry, resentful people do? They talk shit. And they normalize cruelty. So because you couldn't tell her to her face at the function, you have to wait until you get in the car to be cruel and nasty to someone who's not her because you were disempowered when it actually counted. Meanwhile, people like us, I'm like, girl, what's that? When it happened, we gonna talk about it. And on the car ride home, I'm gonna listen to some music like, it's not that serious. I have nothing to prove. Cause I already talked about it, Period. Yeah, I can't do really, really super, super saccharine, sweet, nice folks who never tell the truth.

[Sheila Marie]

Nope, cannot do it.

[Blue Talousma]

You're a mean person in real life.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah. Yeah. That can. To me, that opens up so many conversations that could be had about religion and all types of things and the way that. Yeah, I.

[Blue Talousma]

You about to get us in trouble.

[Sheila Marie]

How long we gonna. Cause we know this is another conversation, but. Okay, so we've reached the point of the episode where we give them a tool for their toolkit, for their unruly toolkit. And we've talked a lot about softness this episode. So is there any softness tool that we can add to their toolkit? Anything to remind them, to reiterate their softness to them?

[Blue Talousma]

Yeah. Well, two, actually. The first thing is, and I say this a lot, and it gets me in trouble. If you are a femme. Whether you're male or female, if you're a feminine being, embrace your wetness, right? That space of softness and wetness. And women always look at. Just look at your eyes. When a woman is aroused, there is a suppleness and a softness to the way she talks. If your man had you aroused right now and he said something that you didn't like, you'd be like, baby, stop.

[Sheila Marie]

You'd be like, stop being.

[Blue Talousma]

See that? Right? That's immediately softness. Our Yonis, our divine feminine, our sacral chakra, our root chakra, our actual literal womanhood, is a space of softness, right? And so a lot of women, when they have issues around their womb or they haven't healed their womb areas, they tend to be irritable because their core, the core of the femininity is irritable. So make sure that you are in a space where you are not sexually and sensually backed up, okay?

[Sheila Marie]

And this. I'm going to take this a step further. This is going to be exclusively, exclusively for my Patreon family. So this little clip right here is not going to be a part of the main episode. If you want to hear it, y'all go ahead and subscribe to my Patreon and put all my little bonuses. We put blog posts, we recap the episodes. I put meditations on there, all that good stuff. So this is a little unruly and unfiltered. If we were gonna take that step further for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, those that are, like, doing the work, investigating themselves, what step. What would you. How would you take this advice further for them?

[Blue Talousma]

Well, the first thing, as somebody who's trying to be in a space of softness, what makes you feel safe? Right? Because softness comes down to safety. You're not going to be soft if you feel unsafe. What. Who. Where makes you feel safe? Who's that friend who makes you feel safe? Who's the lover who makes you feel safe? What's the environment that makes you feel safe? And once you feel safe, how do you show up when you feel sexy? Right? What do you wear? Or do you not wear any panties at all? What do you smell like? How do you do your hair? How do you do your skin care? What do you eat? A lot of times when we talk about going on vacation, vacation is often an excuse to be soft. You don't have to go on vacation from a life that you love all the time, right? And so take your vacation braid and think to yourself, okay, what do I feel like if I'm in my favorite vacation spot and be in a space where you start romanticizing your life, even sensually. Because a lot of people think being spiritual means being pious and non sexual or non sensual, and that's not true. You have to love your body in the literal and figurative sense. I make it a point to look at myself naked every single day as I'm putting on lotion and I feel pretty. I find things about myself that I love, from the FUPA to the stretch marks. You have to love whatever you have, even if you're trying to improve it, right? And you cannot date anybody or hold space with anybody who doesn't love you radically. In the same way, if you're dating somebody or holding space with somebody who makes you feel like there's an asterisk next to your being. You can't be safe and soft around them.

[Sheila Marie]

That's big.

[Blue Talousma]

You can't be safe and stuff around them. Because I have certain friends who. I have guy friends who I know I'm not their type, but I feel so safe with them that I get to be super feminine with them. And in their eyes, you can tell when a man's like, oh, I see why some niggas like her. I could tell. I could see him, right? He's not for me, but I get it, right. That's because I feel so soft and safe around them that I'm always in that space. And people who are soft don't have anything to prove. They just reveal. If you constantly feel like you're using words like, well, it's just the principle. That's not soft. Why do you need to fight about something that you're not actually angry about? Just for the principal, a soft person wants us all to get to a place where we can all exhale. So if you're clenching your booty cheeks and overthinking and furrowing your brow and you didn't lotion your butt and your legs and your arms after the shower, that is not soft. Tap into your inner Cleopatra. That's the part of what our grandmas did. Our grandmas couldn't have their own big account, couldn't buy their own houses until, like 1975. Like, they were completely almost enslaved to the men in their lives. And yet they would do their hair, they would get their eye cream, they would put on their perfumes, they would put on a slip, they'd play nice music. You know why that was a ritual? For survival. Their softness kept them sane. I think we still have that in our DNA. Save the world if you want to, but stay soft. Soft.

[Sheila Marie]

Softness keeps us sane.

[Blue Talousma]

It does bars. It's a personal ritual.

[Sheila Marie]

Blue, this conversation was so amazing. I absolutely want to get you back. I feel like we need a part 2. There's so much that we couldn't cover. But like you, I just really enjoyed this conversation and I hope that everyone listening got something from it. I'm confident that you did. Now, where can people find you? Where can they work with you? What's the best way to support you?

[Blue Talousma]

Well, first of all, thank you for having me. Because I love what you're doing so much and I love the way that you're using your platform. It feels so sincere. A lot of times when I get invited to come on platform, they're like, nah, I'm good. Because I'm like, you gonna say something and the lady gonna get mad. So the fact that I felt safe coming here talking to you, cause you felt kindred. I just wanna thank you for that.

[Sheila Marie]

Such an honor. I really thank you. That sincere is such a huge compliment.

[Blue Talousma]

For me and I can see it in you. Which is why I was like, yeah, I hope that she's good at keeping herself safe. Because somebody who was that powerful and that attractive and that sincere. Yeah, haters gonna hate. So shout out to you for if.

[Sheila Marie]

You keep yourself safe.

[Blue Talousma]

Because honey, they're threatened. They have a reason to be.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes, they do. Yes, they do.

[Blue Talousma]

They're friend. That's cause they have a reason to be. Where you can Find Me is Bluecentric on Instagram and Twitter, Lutelusma on TikTok for however long it lasts. And three times a year, I do an eight week emotional intelligence workshop where for two hours every Wednesday internationally, we sit down on Zoom and we go over eight tenants of emotional intelligence. And people cry and laugh and cry again. But we give people actual, like tools, like tangible tools. And if people want to sign up, the next one is May 7th. And the URL is ots25.eventbrite.com and OTS stands for own thy shift. It's a play on own your shit.

[Sheila Marie]

I love it. I love it. Y'all sign up. Get your emotional intelligence together. And I love following her on socials, so do that too, because she's so brilliant, always pulling out the gems. And thank you for listening, everybody. Thank you, Blue, for being with us today. Stay soft and of course, stay unruly until next time. Bye.

[Blue Talousma]

That was so fun.

[Sheila Marie]

If you have something on your mind, a question or something you want me to answer, just send in a voice [e-mail] unruly I can't wait to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe so you never, ever, ever, ever miss an episode of Unruly.

[Unknown]

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[Blue Talousma]

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