3: WTF is a Grief Doula!? ft. Asha Edouard

Summary

Podcast Title: UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
Episode: 3: WTF is a Grief Doula!? ft. Asha Eduard
Release Date: October 22, 2024

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Introduction

In the third episode of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE, host Shelah Marie engages in a profound conversation with Asha Eduard, a full-spectrum death doula. This episode delves into the often-overlooked role of grief doulas, exploring their vital function in navigating the complex emotions surrounding death and loss. Shelah Marie, an advocate for black women and founder of the Curvy, Curly, Conscious movement, seeks to shed light on the transformative support that grief doulas provide.

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Understanding the Role of a Death Doula

Defining a Doula

Asha Eduard begins by clarifying the broader concept of a doula. [02:32] She explains, "A doula is someone that helps an individual transition from one state of being to another state of being." This transition can pertain to various life events, such as pregnancy, abortion, or death.

Types of Doulas

• Birth Doula: Assists individuals transitioning into motherhood.
• Abortion Doula: Supports those undergoing an abortion, providing emotional and practical assistance.
• Death Doula: Helps individuals and families navigate the emotional, spiritual, and practical aspects of dying and grief.

Full-Spectrum Doula

Asha identifies herself as a full-spectrum doula, covering the entire journey from fertility to postpartum care and, in cases of loss, stepping into the role of a death doula. [05:04] She highlights the adaptability of her role based on the needs of her clients and the sociopolitical climate, such as the heightened need for abortion doulas during the Roe vs. Wade debates.

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Asha Eduard's Journey to Becoming a Death Doula

Clinical Background and Spiritual Calling

Asha shares her transition from a psychotherapist to a death doula. [10:26] She recounts, "I went to Howard University and I was part of a community mental health practice," where she encountered clients dealing with severe trauma, including sexual assault and miscarriage. This experience, coupled with a spiritual calling received during a visit to Haiti, guided her to integrate her clinical expertise with her Haitian heritage to support women holistically.

Training and Development

Asha's dedication led her to become a trauma-informed yoga instructor, reiki practitioner, and eventually, a full-spectrum doula trained by her family. [13:17] Her multifaceted approach ensures comprehensive support for her clients through various life transitions.

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Stigma Around Death and Cultural Perspectives

Western Culture vs. Ancestral Practices

The conversation shifts to the cultural stigmas surrounding death. [13:59] Asha observes that while many ancestral practices embrace death as a natural part of life, Western culture often shrouds it in fear and avoidance. This disconnection stems from a lack of education and ritualization surrounding death from a young age.

Ancestral Veneration

Asha introduces the concept of ancestral veneration, explaining, "Ancestral veneration is a process of you uplifting and acknowledging the ancestors that have come before you." [21:53] She emphasizes the importance of honoring ancestors through rituals and ceremonies, fostering a sense of continuity and support from past generations.

Epigenetics and Intergenerational Trauma

Asha connects ancestral practices to modern science through epigenetics, stating, "If our mother was experiencing trauma throughout her pregnancy, we pick that up... We come out into this world with certain markers on us already." [25:04] This underscores the importance of healing not just individually but collectively, as it affects generations both past and future.

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Spiritual Abilities and Experiences

Baby Mediumship

Asha reveals her unique ability as a baby medium, sharing personal anecdotes of communicating with spirits. [37:18] She narrates a childhood experience where she interacted with her grandmother's spirit, highlighting the innate spiritual connections children often possess.

Communicating with Spirits

In a poignant story, Asha recounts performing a final cleansing ceremony for a client's loved one, facilitating a peaceful transition. [43:08] This ability underscores her role not just as a doula but as an intermediary between the physical and spiritual realms.

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Toolbox for Navigating Grief and Death

Seven Stages of Grief

Asha outlines the seven stages of grief as a framework for understanding the grieving process:

1. Shock: Initial disbelief and numbness.
2. Denial: Refusing to accept the reality of the loss.
3. Anger: Feeling upset and directing frustration towards behaviors.
4. Bargaining: Seeking ways to reverse or mitigate the loss.
5. Depression: Realizing the inevitable and seeking mental health support.
6. Acceptance: Integrating the loss into one's life and moving forward.

Practical Tools for Healing

• Identifying Grief Stages: Recognizing where one is in the grieving journey.
• Releasing Emotions: Encouraging methods like journaling, recording songs, or creating keepsakes.
• Involving Children: Using keepsakes to help children understand and process loss.

Example Rituals

Asha suggests creating keepsake books or blankets with photos and memories of loved ones to honor their presence in daily life. [35:00] These rituals help maintain a connection with the departed and facilitate healing.

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Community Interaction: Listener Q&A

A listener shares her struggle with setting boundaries as a new mom, expressing guilt over asserting her needs. [51:22]

Shelah Marie's Advice:

1. Permission to Set Boundaries: "Give yourself permission to create the boundaries that you need."
2. Clear Communication: Ensure that boundaries are clearly communicated to others.
3. Letting Go: Accept that not everyone will respect your boundaries and prioritize self-care regardless.

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Asha sharing her contact information and avenues for listeners to engage further:

• Instagram: @ingraceyoga
• Online School: In Grace University
• Website: InGraceYogaTherapy.com

Shelah Marie expresses profound gratitude for Asha's insights, emphasizing the transformative power of embracing grief and death with grace and support.

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Key Takeaways

• Death Doulas Provide Essential Support: Assisting individuals and families through emotional, spiritual, and practical aspects of dying and grief.
• Cultural Stigmas Hinder Healthy Grieving: Western avoidance of death contrasts with ancestral practices that honor the natural cycle of life and death.
• Ancestral Veneration Promotes Collective Healing: Recognizing and honoring ancestors can heal intergenerational trauma and foster a sense of continuity.
• Practical Tools Facilitate Healing: Understanding grief stages and engaging in meaningful rituals can aid in processing loss.
• Empowerment Through Boundary Setting: Establishing clear boundaries is crucial for self-care, especially for new parents navigating their roles.

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Notable Quotes

• Asha Eduard [02:32]: "A doula is someone that helps an individual transition from one state of being to another state of being."
• Asha Eduard [10:26]: "I came back home and I made this big declaration that I'm ready to do the work. And I surrendered."
• Asha Eduard [21:53]: "Ancestral veneration is a process of you uplifting and acknowledging the ancestors that have come before you."
• Asha Eduard [25:04]: "We heal seven generations ahead of you, you heal also seven generations behind you."
• Asha Eduard [37:18]: "Children are so close to the veil. They are."
• Asha Eduard [43:08]: "As a death doula, when individuals are about to transition, we do a final bath with herbs, with Reiki."

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This episode of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE offers invaluable insights into the role of grief doulas, the importance of cultural practices in coping with loss, and practical tools for healing. By bridging clinical expertise with spiritual practices, Asha Eduard exemplifies the profound impact that compassionate support can have on individuals navigating the darkest moments of their lives.

Transcript

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[Sheila Marie]

Welcome to Unruly. I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for black women, and the founder of the curvy curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who are all navigating their own paths to healing. Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly.

[Asha Eduard]

Hey.

[Sheila Marie]

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to Unruly. This episode. This episode right here. I am very much looking forward to it because we are diving deep into a topic that many of us avoid, but none of us can escape. Okay, we're talking grief and death. Yes, death, it's a natural part of life, but somehow we're still unprepared when it happens, and it leaves us feeling lost and distraught. Which is why I am thrilled to be joined by the beautiful and lovely Asha Eduard today. Asha is a death doula who helps individuals and families navigate emotional, spiritual, and practical aspects of dying in grief. So without further ado, let's dive right in. Asha, welcome to Unruly. Hi. Yes. You came highly recommended. I was putting out a call. I'm like, I want to speak to a death doula. And people were like, her, her, her, her. And so I'm so happy to have you here. I first heard about a death doula. Vice had a very interesting was like, a YouTube video on Vice about a black woman, and she was a death doula. And I had never even heard that term before. I was like, what? Literally, I just clicked out of pure curiosity. So a lot of people are going to be like, me. They're going to be coming to this, like, a death. What? A lot of us are familiar with a doula in the birthing sense. And I'm familiar with, like, fertility doulas. And I know there are many types of doulas, but a lot of people might say, what is a death doula? Can you explain what a death doula is to somebody who's Maybe never heard about it before.

[Asha Eduard]

Sure. Okay. I love this question because I think before we talk about what a deaf doula is, we got to talk about what a doula is.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay.

[Asha Eduard]

Yes. A doula is someone that helps an individual transition from one state of being to another state of being. So essentially, we are the servants for those that are going through a transition period. And really it just translates to. To in transition of. Right. And so a birth doula assists folks with being. From going from being not pregnant to pregnant. Right. An abortion doula assists someone from being with child to without child. So a deaf doula assists individuals with dying to one part of themselves going through change, grief, loss. And in my expertise is also helping mothers transition from being with child to without child in the event of a baby. Loss, termination, miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, so on and so forth. So a deaf doula holds sacred space through ritual, ceremony, also through resources for individuals that are just transitioning, which I feel that we all are. Everyone needs a death doula.

[Sheila Marie]

You. You must be like, you have to have. Spirit is very much with you. Because as you started talking, I had. I had two ectopic pregnancies, and so I had miscarriages. And so, like, as you were talking, I felt like the tears in the back. I'm like tears in back of my eyes. Like, I'm not crying, but just thinking about how little that was treated like a real death. Like that was treated as a process that should have been given some type of ritual, some type of goodbye. And I have to not talk about that anymore because I feel like I'll literally start crying. See, I might need. Y'all. See, I might need to speak, too. Cause I want to. You know, I first thought when you said death doula that you are specifically going to be talking about transitioning from this plane of existence to whatever is beyond. But you widened it a little bit. First, I have to break. There's a few things I want to break down. You widen death to death, metaphorical deaths, too. Death of identity, death of ego death, maybe other types of deaths, which is interesting. I want to ask you more about later. And I also think. Am I correct in saying you're a full spectrum doula?

[Asha Eduard]

Yes. Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay.

[Asha Eduard]

I'm a full spectrum doula. So I cover everything from fertility. I help women get pregnant, and then I serve as their birth doula, and as they are with child. And then nine times out of 10, I serve as their postpartum doula, assisting them in the three months post birth. And in the event that the child doesn't make it, or they experience a miscarriage, or they say, asha, I want to have an abortion. I then serve as their death doula.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. I cannot. I feel all the. Like, I don't know. I'm very. I'm a very spiritual person, as are you. And I feel all those women with me that you helped, like, all of those women who, like, I never heard of an abortion doula before. And when you hear of the term abortion, there's a largely negative stigma. There's a lot of guilt. There's a lot of shame of people are going. You know, it's used as a tool to beat women down for their choices. And so you just. The way you speak about being an abortion doula is just draped in love and care, and it is draped in the energy that I wish more women could have around the time. Like that. That is beautiful, Asha. That was not on my script at all. And you just. Wow, you've rocked my world in five seconds. Okay. Oh, my goodness. I want.

[Asha Eduard]

It's work that comes from the heart. It comes from the heart. Like I tell my clients, I'm not your pastor. So I think it's also important to establish the roles, right? I'm not your pastor. I'm not your religious leader. I'm your doula. And as your doula, I have a responsibility to assist you in receiving the utmost mental, spiritual, emotional, and psychological support. That's my role. So I don't come into this work, you know, shunning women. I don't come into this work with the judgment of who is supposed to do what, and you shouldn't do this. I leave my stuff at the door. I also have to say that I came into this work as a psychotherapist, and so I. I'm very keen on leaving my stuff at the door and understanding that my women that have gone through abortion or baby loss, they've gone through a trauma. They've gone through some level of wound trauma. The last thing they need is someone judging them about what they need to do. This is the world thing.

[Sheila Marie]

This is the world I desire for women. I just want to sit that right there. Like, this is the whole reason I wrote a book. It's the whole reason I have this podcast. It's the whole reason I do anything is because I believe in imagination. And part of what I'm doing is just imagining a world that would treat women like that. And what you find is that at so many junctions where women are already experiencing a trauma, they get more shame and punishment on top of the trauma. And so I love what you're doing because I feel like you're also co creating a world that we all wish that it just treats women kinder.

[Asha Eduard]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And softer. I just think it's so beautiful, and I feel it off of you. Like, Asha, you are amazing. Like, I just feel like you brought that energy right with you. It's so. It's so beautiful. And I just imagine how many women you're helping. I. I'm so grateful for you, really, honestly.

[Asha Eduard]

Thank you.

[Sheila Marie]

So you're a full spectrum doula. Do you, like, do one more than the others? Is there an area that you're most specialized in, or do you. I answer the call. I do it all.

[Asha Eduard]

I do it all. But it depends on the season.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay.

[Asha Eduard]

And it depends on what's happening in politics.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, tell us more.

[Asha Eduard]

So around the time of Ro versus Wade, I started doing more abortion doula work. So I'm located in Georgia. Atlanta. Marietta, Georgia. Really? Okay.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm not far from Marietta.

[Asha Eduard]

Perfect. I'm far out of me. I'm in Marietta, Georgia. And so during the time of Roe versus Wade, I was beginning to get a lot of DMs around. Women that were saying, asha, I want to have an abortion. I don't know what to do. I need someone to talk to. I want to know what my options are. I'm afraid that I will have to carry my abuser's child full term. And so during those months, my abortion doula clients were through the roof. Women were flying in from New York City from all over to get here just to do a consultation with me. Right. Like I tell my clients, every day, a woman is experiencing an abortion, but it's not every day that woman has wraparound care and support. So during that time, when that was really big in the news, women were finding me. And at that time, too, some of my media was going viral, so women were finding me. Right. So right now, I'm big in the birth space because I've traveled with a lot of my clients. I've been with them for years, and so they're finally pregnant, and I'm supporting them in the birth space. But during Roe vs. Wade, I was really big in doing death doula work and supporting my clients in that way. So it just depends on the season. It depends on what's going on in politics. It depends what's going on in the culture. Culture. Right. That impacts my work.

[Sheila Marie]

You have a clinical background. How did you get there? How did you find this as a career for you. What was that path?

[Asha Eduard]

I did not find it. It found me. It found me. I was a psychotherapist for four years. I went to Howard University and I was hu in the building. I was part of a community mental health practice. And at that time, I can't say I was starting my spiritual journey, but I was more so becoming more invested and committed to my spiritual journey. I grew up in a spiritual family. My mom is spiritual. I come from multi generations of healers. And I was getting the call from spirit to integrate my clinical background with my Haitian roots. And I was fighting it. I was fighting it. I want to say though, during my time as a psychotherapist, these are the same clients I was working with. I was working with clients that had experienced sexual assault, abuse, women who were considering abortion, miscarriage, and so they were having manifestations of anxiety. Those were my clients. It's like the most extreme trauma cases were given to me as a therapist. And so during that time, I went back home to Haiti. And when I went back home to Haiti, I got a reading. And when I got a reading, the reading says you are in your work, but not 100%. There is a missing leg of your work. You're supposed to take your spiritual and clinical expertise and bring it into the wellness space and support women holistically support their entire journey. At that time, I was really just encountering with them like after the hospital after an assault. And spirit said, no, that's not it. That's not the work. And so I came back here and I made this big declaration that I'm ready to do the work. And I surrendered. I truly surrender when I was in Haiti and I said, I'm ready to do the work. I was scared, but I surrendered and opened up my heart to serving women in this capacity. And so from therapist became a yoga instructor, trauma informed yoga instructor. So I started teaching yoga for sexual assault survivors, yoga for miscarriage yo post abortion yoga, helping individuals connect back to their bodies. Always been doing it, just different capacities. Became a reiki instructor. And then at that time, I had partnerships with nonprofits who service the populations that I wanted to work with, which were trauma survivors. And so I began doing womb reiki for pregnant mothers, helping them connect to the child in addition to doing womb reiki, post assault and abuse to help to balance the chakras. And then I went back home again to Haiti and I got trained as a full spectrum doula by my family first.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow, that's incredible. You, I mean, you must. You really have a calling. And I'm just. I'm so happy that you stepped up because what a gift to yourself and to the world. I want to ask you about stigma for a second because I think in many cultures, I mean, it's also not true. In many ancestral practices, death is not. There's no stigma around it. It is a part of the life and death cycle. But in Western culture and a lot of cultures, there's just a big stigma around death. It's like it's something we don't talk about, but we all experience. Why do you think it is so hard for people to talk about death? And how can we start to change that?

[Asha Eduard]

That's a really good question. I've been thinking about that. So in my culture, death is known as part of the process, right? It's known that, like, we can access folks on the other side. Death is not the end of the journey through prayer and through other forms of ancestral connection, we can access individuals on the other side. But I feel that from a young age, we're not taught about death. We're not taught that loss is a natural part of life. We're not taught that there will be times where there will be things that we want and desire that we cannot have. There will be people that we lose in this life, and there'll be things. We're not taught that of the process of, like, metamorphosis. I think as a culture, we're not taught that process. And so death could be really triggering and shocking for us when we. When we never had an orientation to, like, the life cycle at all. And I think that's what it is. I think in my recommendation, we have to start the conversation young about the life cycle. Everything dies. I was thinking it comes back in another form. Think about how we shed skin every day, right? Think about how we transition from young adulthood to adulthood. That's a death right there. So I think there's a disconnection with the life cycle. I think there's also a disconnection from the rites of passage cycle. We don't see things as rites of passages. We see them more as an end, and that's it.

[Sheila Marie]

What do you mean exactly?

[Asha Eduard]

Meaning that we don't see an individual transitioning from young adulthood to adulthood as a rites of passage. There's no ceremony in between young adulthood and adulthood. There's no ceremonies. And so we're not equipped with the information, the tools, the resources to navigate this new space that we're in. We're kind of just moving through life on autopilot. And then we get to a point of death and we're not prepared for our transition.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow.

[Asha Eduard]

Because we never had a transitional ceremony of sorts to usher us through the many deaths that we've had here on earth.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. Ritual. Right? How important rituals are. That's what I'm hearing. I also want to pick out two things you said that really just my mind is like, my neurons are firing and wiring together. But how. How we talk to children about death.

[Asha Eduard]

Right.

[Sheila Marie]

I notice, I noticed that it's all hush, hush, oh, puppy went away, or dog went away, some grandma's going away on a vacation, and da, da, da. Like, there's all this. And I always found that, like, wait a minute. But who's the one who can't handle it? It's probably the adults. The children in this situation can very readily understand things and process things. It's. Are we scared of the emotions they're going to have and what we're going to be able to do with it? Are we scared of how we're going to feel? But I. I agree with you. And I think it would be so valuable to children to talk, to introduce the idea of death to children younger. And it also makes me think of something that my healer told me a long time ago. One of my healers, I work with many, but she was like, sheila, you have to get really good at letting go. Get really good at letting go now. Because people who don't practice the act of letting go in addition to not being able. It's almost like what you said about not being able to transition, but either they can't let go when someone else dies in their life, that's the ultimate, like, letting go, or they also can't let go when it's their time. And so I thought of that and I. I use that. That was like such an anchor for me when I was going through my miscarriages, because I was like, this is the ultimate practice in letting go. My whole fertility journey. And that is exactly where I'm at right now, if you ask me. Sheila, what are you doing? Where do you stand? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I did already the thing where I had a plan and I made a da, da, da. And I told myself, I got to do it now. And I do this thing and I did this thing and I had this surgery and this surgery and another surgery, and now I just like, you know what? I'm here, I'm living, I'm existing. I'm in this phase, Is it uncomfortable? Yeah. But am I getting better and better? You know what I mean? And so I feel like no matter what, if I'm. If I become a mother, which I do think I will, or. Or not, whatever that looks like, I'll still have this ability to let go with me.

[Asha Eduard]

Yes. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And I love that that's what you're saying, is that getting comfortable with what comes with death is already teaching us about how to live, which I think is so profound. And so when you're working with people, I can imagine you encounter a lot of people who. This is very foreign territory for.

[Asha Eduard]

Like.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes, they probably have not talked about death a lot, not comfortable with it, a lot of resistance. So what's like, the biggest misconception that you come across in your work being a death doula, specifically?

[Asha Eduard]

Great question. I think sometimes people think that. One, they think that they can't handle it. That's one part of it. They feel like they can't handle death. The biggest misconception is that they don't have the emotional wherewithal or inner resources to handle death. That's 1, 2. They have a misconception that sometimes when their person transitions, that they're somewhere else and they're inaccessible. They're just floating in air, but they're inaccessible. And I like to say I'm a spiritual death doula. And so when I come in, I'm talking about ancestral reverence, I'm talking about ancestral veneration. I'm talking about how in my culture and in my tradition, folks are accessible on the other side through prayer. And so there's a misconception that, one, I can't handle this. This is beyond my capacity. And then two, that this person just went somewhere else, whether it be heaven, whether it be to the afterlife, and that that person is not accessible. And if you are trying to access that person or if you do believe that there is life on the other side and this person is still available for connection. I believe that they think it's something demonic.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh. Oh, my gosh. Wake it up, sister.

[Asha Eduard]

I need something demonic.

[Sheila Marie]

I cannot help but think about how much we lose by. By our. The history, the historical implications of us abandoning ancestral practices and these ancestral religions and these spiritual practices that we had. And now it's like, oh, I'm not touching that. That's. That's the devil. That's the devil. Only Jesus over here. Only Jesus. And I just wonder. I wonder what is lost in that. I think there's so much wisdom lost certain Isolation, Right. Certain.

[Asha Eduard]

There's so much. And then for individuals who are coming into this practice, there's also a great amount of shame. Right. So we have your loss in transition over here. And now you're looking for ways to communicate with the person you lost, whether it was your grandmother and your grandfather. And maybe the community that you're in doesn't support ancestral veneration.

[Sheila Marie]

Right.

[Asha Eduard]

Or maybe you say, I would like to pray and not to my grandmother. I'm praying to Source, and I'm asking for my grandmother's essence and wisdom to be around me. If you share this to the community that's not open to this, that can open up the door for shame. That can open up the door for you to be ridiculed, that can open up the door for you to be judged. This is another practice that I feel that we should teach children from a young age. Ancestral veneration.

[Sheila Marie]

Can you break it down for people who've never heard that term? What is ancestral veneration?

[Asha Eduard]

Yes, ancestral veneration is a process of you uplifting and acknowledging the ancestors that have come before you. That's all it is.

[Sheila Marie]

And so. Oh, no, Go ahead, babe.

[Asha Eduard]

And so, in uplifting and acknowledging the ancestors, the same way you speak with Source, you speak out loud to the ancestors because they are always with you. The thought is that you are the sum of all of the ancestors in your family. You are the sum. They all took a breath and with the Creator, they formed you. So that's why we do some ancestral healing, because as we heal, we also heal our bloodline. Right? And so if we are the sum of the ancestors, then they have never left us, because even if they transition, they're still in close proximity to us. That is a way that we keep our family name alive, we keep our lineages alive, we keep our customs alive, we keep our practices alive by calling on the name of the benevolent ones who have come before us.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow, this is really making me think about this idea of circularity, this idea that we are all interconnected, which I think is a very important ancient viewpoint. And I think we're in a modern time which increasingly pushes us to think of ourselves as individuals. And even when you get in the self help in the healing space, and I know you know this with your clinical background, there's a lot of focus on the individual, as if we live in a vacuum and we're not affected by these outside things. I'll use myself as an example. Why am I having miscarriages? Why. Why have I looked at my My mom's line, by any chance, to see what traumas my. And when I started to go down, I was like, no wonder, right?

[Asha Eduard]

No wonder, right?

[Sheila Marie]

I am not. I am not a complete individual.

[Asha Eduard]

No, it came from people.

[Sheila Marie]

I feel like I'm not even fall out of a coconut tree. You exist with everything that came right. Come on, Kamala. Like, I started and then I started. I had this. This made me have to ask my mom questions. And then I found a little bit more about what she went through and my grandmother and even on my dad's side. No wonder. Trauma on all sides. And so me again. I feel like when you. When you think about it on an individual level, it can be like, I'm just suffering for no reason. Pours me. When you think about it like a collective. The way you're talking is that we're. We're all connected in certain ways. I go, ah, maybe this is a part of my journey here, is to undo some of that trauma, is to promote healing. Every which way, forward, backward, beyond, up.

[Asha Eduard]

Down, and all the sides.

[Sheila Marie]

And all the sides.

[Asha Eduard]

The thought is, as you heal here, you heal seven generations ahead of you, you heal also seven generations behind you. You heal the cells in your body, and so you pass down healthier cells to your offspring. This is called epigenetic transmission. We felt what our mothers felt while we were in the womb, while we were in utero.

[Sheila Marie]

What is epigenetics for people who don't.

[Asha Eduard]

Know, it looks like the study. Well, epigenetics is the study of information as it passes through your cells and as it passes through your DNA. And so we are looking at trauma in the womb space and how an individual's biology and physiology can change. Because trauma changes your cell cellular structure, it changes the DNA in your body. It changes how you respond to stress, it changes your behaviors. And so if we're feeling trauma in the womb space, or if our mother was experiencing a certain level of trauma throughout her pregnancy, we pick that up. So we become what they call genetically disposed to certain things because of the trauma or experiences or emotions that we felt in the womb that passed through the placenta. And so we have adopted as a child. And so we come out into this world with certain markers on us already just because of the womb that we were in for nine months. So we're never by ourselves. We're never just. Science proves that we are not by ourselves, and we are not independent of the woman who have come before us. Right? So circling back to ancestral veneration, if that was your Mother. Then imagine your mother being in your grandmother's womb and what she felt and experienced. Imagine being your grandmother being in your great grandmother's womb and what she felt or experienced and how much of that you're carrying. And so we uplift the woman who come before for us, and we ask for their love and their grace and their protection in the afterlife and wherever they are. Right? And we ask that they continue to watch over us here. That's the process of ancestral veneration. And the biggest misconception is that your ancestors are demons. And that's what breaks my heart, honestly.

[Sheila Marie]

Oof. Ooh. Can you speak more to that? I feel that that's the first response when people, you know, Black Christianity has a very specific entry point to this, which is that the only spirit that is dead you're supposed to talk to is Jesus. Like, beyond that, I mean, I'm. I'm paraphrasing. The Bible's long. But beyond that, like all that talking to ancestor stuff, that's like some demonic stuff, all that saging, all those crystals, all those. All that stuff is that demon white stuff. We don't do that. What do you say to that?

[Asha Eduard]

It breaks my heart, honestly. It truly breaks my heart. Because what I see are people who've been stripped of their own cultural identity. That's what I see. And that truly breaks my heart. These practices were here. You know, they say in traditional medicine women communities and in indigenous communities that religion is new age. That's new age, right? That connection with the land is what we had before religion. Connection with the elements is what we had before we had religion. Right. And through colonization, we've been given structured religion, but we've always been connected. That was our practice, Right. When we were found on the continent of Africa, we were found doing our own practices, right? So we have to acknowledge how colonization plays a role and how insidious colonization was. And after years of indoctrination, how we've just forgotten those cultural practices that we used to do. Right. A little bit more and more and more. So much so that when we are reintroduced to them, they are seen as demonic.

[Sheila Marie]

There's so much. Like this topic alone could literally be an entire podcast episode. Because I have so many thoughts on that, and I also, too, am sad for that. I am sad because, again, I think there's just so much that we lose and there's so much self determination or power or guidance or wisdom, et cetera. I wonder, when you're in your work, I imagine you encounter a lot of resistance Am I right or wrong with that?

[Asha Eduard]

Not in my work. Not in my work. I find that the clients who I attract, they're clear. They have a spiritual foundation and rooting like I am. I own an independent practice. And so individuals come to me. I'm not part of a community practice. They come to me because they're looking to honor death in cultural ways. They understand that something's missing, right? Something's missing. Something's missing from traditional psychotherapy and grief work. They're looking to honor death in the ways, perhaps, that they've seen their abuela do and the ways that they've seen their mother or grandma do, right? So they're looking for an integrative approach that combines the stages of grief and loss in addition to cultural, ancestral, and indigenous practice. So inside my work, we're good. We're good because the clients already have a clear orientation around who I am, what I do, and my scope of practice. Now, outside my work, where individuals don't know me, right? They don't know the lens in which I approach this work, there is a lot of negative comments. You know, there are a lot of people that say this is demonic work and no whatever. Right? And I think that's just it. Whenever you're a revolutionary, whenever you're bringing people back to their power, whenever you're inviting people to see that you are not powerless, you are powerful, and I'm giving you resources and tools, you will be met with backlash. That's how I handle it. You're going to be met with backlash when you dare to change a system that people believe in for years, whether it's working for them or not. You look like the aggressor.

[Sheila Marie]

Heavy on if it's working for them or not. Heavy, yeah.

[Asha Eduard]

Whether it's working for them or not, we will rather keep doing things that don't hold space for the fullness of us. We will defend it. And again, no fault to the people who have negative opinions about what I do. We've all been colonized.

[Sheila Marie]

Wake it up. Wake it up, sister.

[Asha Eduard]

We've all been colonized.

[Sheila Marie]

We all have. And I feel that your work is a part of that. Unlearning and decolonizing and stepping back into our power. Death is often framed as the end, Right? And you describe it as a transition. What is exactly does that transition mean to you and how does it shape how you approach this process?

[Asha Eduard]

Wonderful. It's a transition in all ways. It's a mental transition. Right. It's a physical transition. We have to transition from who Are we in the presence of this thing or person? So we go through a emotional, mental and psychological transition. And then when this person or thing leaves our world, world, who are we? We're tasked to ask ourselves that question. So it's that transition. Right. I. I use this example in my work that, you know, how. I'm not sure if you know this, but in some cultures, the matriarch of the family is the one that gives the orders.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah.

[Asha Eduard]

They run the show.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah.

[Asha Eduard]

The matriarch in the family is also the one that sits, speaks into the life of the child. She says, you are this. You are confident because the matriarch has been here. It's like the wise woman. It's like the sage, right? So she knows. She can tell based on their temperament, their orientation, she can tell who's going to be what. Right. So individuals look and glean to the matriarch's wisdom, Right. To identify who they are. And now when the matriarch is no longer here, that individual will go through a grief process. One because they lost the matriarch, but then they're going through their own personal process. Who am I without this matriarch telling me who I am? How can I self identify? What do I believe in when I'm not being edified by this person in my family who we all love? How do I identify with myself? What do I believe, what do I feel, what do I want and what do I desire? So death also brings us inward. Not just with grief, but it brings us inward where we begin to contemplate who we are and what we are in relationship to our society around us.

[Sheila Marie]

Is there beauty in death?

[Asha Eduard]

I think so, but it depends on how the person sees it. I think there's beauty for death because there's beauty for new life. Something else can emerge.

[Sheila Marie]

What would you say to someone who's like, this person was everything to me. They meant so much to me, and it's just terrible. It's just shitty. Like, sorry to curse, but like, I. I don't see beauty in it. I miss them. I want them. I wish they were a part of my everyday life.

[Asha Eduard]

I would say you can make them part of your everyday life. You can make them through ritual.

[Sheila Marie]

Can you give us an example?

[Asha Eduard]

Yeah. You can make them through ritual. You can bring their favorite things in your home. Right. You can write a letter to them. You can release flowers out for them on the memorial of their passing. I like to have my clients create a keepsake book of all of their favorite moments and pictures of the loved One, Right. Or a blanket and quote with all of the photos of that loved one. And then through prayer, you can also talk to them. I would say talk. Talk to Big Mama like she's still here, like she's in a room with y'all. Talk to her. Talk to her like she's still here. Big Mama, I'm going through this. I need this job. I need some support and help from the other, this eye. Right. You can. And it's important to also acknowledge too, that grief is very real. Loss is very real. So the emotions that arise as a result of someone transitioning are very real. Right. And so to also create space for those emotions and what that may look like for you on a day to day basis. Okay. But then spirit is also just as real too. And so you can honor the loved one by bringing their spirit into your world. And that too could be part of the grief process too. And that too could be part of the healing process.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. You get to choose. You get to choose. I always say that we don't have to just we can always open our minds up to learning something new, doing something new, and discovering. I almost think it's a lot of rediscovering too. Rediscovering parts of ourselves. Because when I, when I'm going back to kids for a second, because when I think about kids, a lot of people, I'm in the spiritual community, a lot of people say that they're closer to the veil. Like, kids are easier to see spirits, talk to spirits. They don't get scared unless they're. Maybe they have bad, bad intentions. But like, if it's grandma or something like that, they. And that they just can see things and just talk to them. And then also they have imaginary friends. And it's like as we get older, we're like, nope, nope, nope, I'm an adult. I shut that down. Yeah, don't do that.

[Asha Eduard]

So we don't have capacity for it. Let me tell you a quick story. When I was about like 6 years old, my mom says that we were all outside on the porch. I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. So we were all outside in my mom's porch, me and my family, Brooklyn.

[Sheila Marie]

In the house, right?

[Asha Eduard]

And my grandma had just transitioned about a year or two before, right? And so my mom says I just stopped dead in my tracks. And I said, grandma, are you here with us? You're back? My mom said, I did not cry or anything. I ran to the front gate and said, grandma, come in the gate. Why aren't you Coming. You're back. You're back. And my mom asked me, like, who are you talking to? And I said, ma, Grandma's right here. She's not coming in the gate. And then my mom asked me, like, what is grandma doing? And then I said, grandma just said, bye, and I love you. And grandma walked off. I believe children are so close to the veil. They are. And I don't think the concept of death scares them as much as it scares us.

[Sheila Marie]

I think it's programmed to be fearful, right?

[Asha Eduard]

Yes, yes. I think it's us. I think we don't have the capacity to hold the fullness of life and death, and so we project that onto the kids. But as a child, I was not afraid of my grandmother, and I was actually really excited to see her.

[Sheila Marie]

That is so beautiful. Do you still have that ability now?

[Asha Eduard]

Yeah, yeah, I do. You want to get into it? We could get into it.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, yeah. I mean, we got a few minutes. Let's go. Okay.

[Asha Eduard]

Yes, I do. So I see my client's children on the other side before they come. So I'm also a baby medium.

[Sheila Marie]

Stop playing. Oh, my gosh. I'm about to. I'm about to book you outside of this because I want you to talk to my babies. Because, listen, my friends used to make fun of me, but I don't know why I felt called to again. I've just always been very close to all these things spiritual. When I was, like, 20, in my 20s, with no baby daddy, husband, nothing in sight, would just meditate to my kids. And I always saw two.

[Asha Eduard]

Those are called spirit babies.

[Sheila Marie]

And I would talk to them and, like, be like, guys, am I on the right track for, like, the mom you guys have? You know, like, for our mom and baby situation? You know, I would just get advice, talk to my friends, and be like, girl, stop talking about your spirit baby. That stuff is weird.

[Asha Eduard]

It's real. It's real. Super quick. Really quick example. I was in Puerto Rico with one of my clients. One or actually not with my clients. I was doing work for my clients, spiritual work for my clients, for their wellness and upliftment. One baby came through for one of my clients, and it was a girl I was really close. Came through and said, my client, like, by name. Said her name. Call her out by name. I DM my client, say, hey, there's a baby by your birth canal. Be mindful. She just had a child. Be mindful. If you are not trying to get pregnant, you know, you may want to wrap it up, because there's a baby by your birth canal, and the baby has claimed you. So said. So done. A couple months later, she goes, asha, I'm pregnant. But the child. But that wasn't even it. The child told me that she has to move. The only way she would come down is if my client got a larger home, because part of her contract was that she didn't feel. She needed to feel space and she didn't need to feel stifled. And so the child said, with the power of the source, I will allow you to get a new home. My client moved from North Carolina to California and to a much bigger home. And once she moved, she became pregnant instantly. So I'm a baby medium, and I see babies on the other side, but the other part of it is that I also see when people are about to transition as a deaf doula. And that breaks my heart.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, my gosh. So, number one, I need to tell my producers right now, we need to bring you back to talk all about this other side. The talking to the. I just think the baby mediumship is. Deserves its own house. That's amazing. But I just have a question, so I wonder if you can answer them together, but if not, just answer them separate.

[Asha Eduard]

Okay.

[Sheila Marie]

So when you see when people are about to transition, or when you see babies that haven't come into physical form yet, is it something you. You physically see in front, or how does it. How do you get that information? Is it just like it comes through?

[Asha Eduard]

No, it comes through a dream.

[Sheila Marie]

Ah.

[Asha Eduard]

I will see my client. I will see how many children are close to them. I will also see if my client will have a miscarriage.

[Sheila Marie]

So this happens while you're sleeping?

[Asha Eduard]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

So do you put in requests before you go to sleep, like, hey, I'm working?

[Asha Eduard]

No, I'm just an open channel. I'm a spiritual death doula. So I'm open, which means I'm the intermediary between the physical world and the spirit world. And so when there's a message that needs to come through, it comes through through without interruption.

[Sheila Marie]

And you wake up and you remember everything that needs to be communicated. Wow. Does this disrupt you in any way? Do you still feel like you're rested? You still feel like you have spiritual boundaries?

[Asha Eduard]

Not anymore. Because I've developed a lot of spiritual boundaries, and I have a hell of a lot of spiritual tools to ground myself here. I'm like, I'm in ritual baths, like, weekly. I'm doing my own work. I do my own reiki. I do my own yoga meditation. So I'm really good here, here. So I'm not consumed by it, but before, when I was awakening to the gift, yeah, I was really consumed by it because I would see individuals turn, transition. I saw my healers transition before it was this time. And I facilitated his final Reiki session to close his chakra points. And I was. That was my introduction and initiation into death due to the way.

[Sheila Marie]

Because what you saw it. But he knew it too. He, she.

[Asha Eduard]

He. It was a he. He. I believe he knew it. And the family called me in to perform his final cleansing.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, wow.

[Asha Eduard]

So, as a deaf doula, when individuals are about to transition, we do a final bath with herbs, with Reiki, we wash the entire body down, and we invite the spirit to leave and go to its next destination. And within 48 hours, he transitioned. Before then, he was holding on. He was holding on. But I came in and performed his final ceremony, and he. And he got ice cold. And I said, oh, the spirit has left his body. He's ready to go.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow. Wow. I want to ask one more question, and then I want to get into the toolkit part of this episode.

[Asha Eduard]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

But the last question would be if someone is listening to this right now and they're like, well, I'm kind of interested in what she's talking about. About, but I'm just a little bit. A little bit scared of all that stuff on the other side, or I don't know. What would you say to anyone who's interested? They find their called, their self called to either work with someone like you or maybe get into this work, but the fear is stopping them. What would you say?

[Asha Eduard]

One, acknowledge the fear, because that can get in the way of someone on the other side wanting to communicate with you or you being open to hearing from what someone on the other side. So we have to acknowledge the fear. The fear is very real, is part of the emotions. Acknowledge the fear. And then I always invite people to question, is this fear mine? Is this something that I've learned? Is what I'm doing feeling right, and does it feel like the next right step for me? Okay. And then I invite them to talk to the practitioner if this is something they're really interested in. Talk to the practitioner and get a feel and sense of who they are and the type of work that they do and see if that work is in alignment with your value system and your beliefs. Right. So you have to have some sort of conversation, whether it's a consultation with the practitioner. Right. Because in that consultation, oftentimes the practitioner can answer questions. Sometimes we fear because we just don't have a lot of information. It's new. They say it's cutting edge, but it's not. It's ancestral, it's traditional, and it's indigenous. And because that information is not so readily available, fear arises because of the absence of information. So there needs to be an opportunity where you talk to someone with the information to assess, am I ready? Is this for me or not?

[Sheila Marie]

I love that. I love that. Asha, thank you so much for that. Oh, Lord. This is a very, very powerful episode. And now we are at the toolkit part of the episode, and the best way to be unruly is to do the work, is to fill up that toolbox. So what tool can you leave for the listeners of this conversation as it relates to grief and death?

[Asha Eduard]

There's a couple. So I'm going to listen. I'm going to list a couple. Do I have time?

[Sheila Marie]

Yes.

[Asha Eduard]

Okay. First step, we have to identify where on the grief journey you are. Okay. And so I'm going to bring this up. It's called the seven stages of grief. First step is shock. Second is denial. Right. This is when you're trying to avoid what happened. I don't want to accept that it happened. Third is anger. I'm upset that this happened, and it's showing through my behaviors. Okay. Next is bargaining. This is when you're seeking a way out. You're saying, you know, if this would have happened, then the person wouldn't have transitioned. If only I would have just answered the phone, then I would have, you know, been able to identify that this person wasn't well. If only I paid attention to the signs. That's bargaining. Okay? You're bargaining with yourself or you're bargaining with your creator, someone bigger than you. Okay. And then there's depression. Right? So depression is when we finally realize the inevitable. And when you're in that space, it's important for you to tap into a mental health support, a coach, spiritual therapist, or guide. And then we move into acceptance. When we move into acceptance, it's not necessarily about forgetting the person. It's about thinking, how can I bring this person into the new life, into my new life? How do I utilize this experience to cultivate a new way of being? How do I integrate them? Although they're not physically there, what has to change in my life so that their spirit is still there with me? This is when we're finally able to move forward, understanding that the person or thing has left. A person has transitioned. Right. And we're taking their Essence, their memories, their sometimes items with us, understanding that this is a journey and also understanding that this is part of the cycle of life, that's acceptance. So you first have to identify where you are in the journey. Second, whatever we're not saying gets stored. So there has to be a way that we're releasing our emotions, whether it's through journaling. My favorite is recording songs. I just turn my voice memo on and just record songs. Right. I also recommend keepsakes. Create a box of the individual's favorite things that you revisit. Right. And if you have children, pull that box out at least once a year or once every other year. So the child also knows the energy and essence of the person you loved. Allow that to be part of the healing too. And this is how we introduce kids to the idea of death, transition, and loss.

[Sheila Marie]

Wow, I love that. And you just really reminded me that my bonus daughter, she was a twin and her twin passed away. And when she prays at night, she always incorporates her lyric and she uses the word loveness. Lyric will wrap us in our loveness. It's so cute. I'm like, we're taking that loveness. So cute. Thank you so, so much, Asha. Thank you. This was. This was a beyond powerful episode. You definitely have a calling. I am so honored that you are a guest here today and everyone listening. I hope you got something that you can take away to make your life better from this episode. Asha, I know people are going to be trying to find you, girl. Where can people find you if they want to work with you, if they want to learn more about you?

[Asha Eduard]

Yes. Okay, so my Instagram handle is in Grace yoga. I N G R A C E Y Y O G A I also on a also own an online school called called In Grace University where I train deaf doulas. So this year, I've trained 55 deaf doulas, which is amazing.

[Sheila Marie]

That is a big deal.

[Asha Eduard]

Which is amazing. Yeah. And so I'm headed to New York to train deaf doulas in a couple weeks, and then I'm closing out the year training that doulas in Marietta. If you are local to Georgia. I also own a womb spa in Marietta, Georgia, where I facilitate most of the ceremony for grief, loss, and transition. So you can come here to get yoni steams. You can come to learn about ancestral veneration. We have workshops, classes, and you can also book reiki sessions where you can communicate with the unborn, which is called wom Reiki, if that's your thing. And so you can find me online in Grace Yoga. My website is in Grace Yoga Therapy, and that's that. Thank you for having me.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. Thank you so much, Asha. All right. That was such a powerful conversation, wasn't it? I know. So let's dive into one of my favorite parts of the show. This is the unruly community call in section, and I love this part because I love hearing from you. So let's dive right into today's question.

[D]

I have a hard time finding my voice. I have a hard time saying no and setting boundaries. And now that I'm a mom, I'm a new mom, and I have guilt about it because it's like little things. I'll feel bad for telling people to, you know, get hand sanitizer or no, you can't hold them right now, or no, I don't want visitors right now. That kind of thing. So just telling people no, not just going along with whatever my man want as far as living situations and things. So, yeah, setting boundaries, saying no, finding my voice, especially as a mom, because I have somebody to protect. And, yeah, I really love your platform. I really love what you do. I have been following you for years, Many years. I don't even know how long. But, yeah, you my girl. And thank you for letting us share with you.

[Asha Eduard]

So, yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, ready for another question submitted from listeners just like you. All right, so this question is about boundaries. And first of all, shout out to this young lady because she said she's been listening to me for over 10 years. So shout out to that. Oh, geez, unite. She asked about boundaries, and she's a new mom, and she wanted to know how can she go about creating boundaries without feeling guilty? I think this is a great question, and I know so many women struggle with this. Number one, give yourself permission to create boundaries that make you feel safe. I think a lot of times women, and especially black women, feel guilty for asking for boundaries, and I think that's the world's problem and not yours. So create your boundaries from a place of how much you love yourself, how much you deserve protection and care, and not from a place of where how much you want to shut people out so that your boundaries become bridges instead of fences. But the first step is definitely giving yourself permission. Give yourself permission to create the boundaries that you need. Secondly, you need to communicate them clearly because people are not mind readers. We're not to assume that because you're a new mom, people will know you don't want them to touch the baby without hand sanitizer or what what have you. Make sure that you're communicating your boundaries clearly to the people around you so that they can act accordingly. And the last step, which is probably the hardest step, is you have to let go. You have to let go of the expectation some people are going to get your boundaries, some people aren't. And just know that the people love you, the people that love you, the people that value you in their life are going to respect your boundaries. Happy boundary setting and congratulations on your new baby. Thank you so much for sending that in. And to the rest of the unruly community, if you have something on your mind, a question or something you want me to answer, just send in a voice [e-mail] unruly I can't wait to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe so you never, ever, ever, ever miss an episode of Unruly.