Podcast Summary: UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
Episode 35: The Science of Sleep: Why Black Women Deserve Better Rest
Release Date: June 3, 2025
Guest: Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell

Introduction

In Episode 35 of Unruly with Shelah Marie, host Shelah Marie delves into the critical subject of sleep, emphasizing its profound impact on the well-being of Black women. Joined by Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell, a board-certified sleep specialist and founder of The Solution is Sleep, the conversation navigates the complexities of sleep science, addressing common myths, practical strategies, and the unique challenges faced by Black women in achieving restful sleep.

Rapid Fire Icebreaker

00:01 – 05:32

Shelah opens the episode by highlighting the importance of rest, referencing previous discussions on the topic. She introduces Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell, praising her credentials and expertise in sleep science. To warm up the conversation, they engage in rapid-fire questions:

• Strangest Sleep Advice: Dr. Bell shares her experience with polyphasic sleep recommendations, explaining why she doesn't endorse sleeping in smaller chunks throughout the day due to its ineffectiveness and negative impact on performance.

  "Some people have recommended sleeping in chunks...there was supposed to be this benefit to polyphasic sleep, and it turns out there was no benefit and he was just tired and performing poorly afterwards." [02:39]

• Why Do People Talk in Their Sleep? Dr. Bell discusses the genetic predisposition to sleep talking and factors like sleep deprivation and alcohol use that can exacerbate it.

  "We have not uncovered exactly why some people do it and why some people don't." [02:44]

• Becoming a Morning Person: The conversation explores the concept of chronotypes, explaining that while genetics play a significant role in determining whether one is a night owl or an early bird, consistent scheduling can help align sleep patterns with desired wake times.

  "Your circadian rhythm, your chronotype is genetic...there are things you can do to make it easier for you to get sleepy earlier and wake up earlier." [03:13]

Shelah shares her personal revelation about her "power hours" a few hours after waking up, illustrating that being a morning person doesn't necessarily mean waking up at dawn. Dr. Bell introduces the concept of various chronotypes beyond the classic early bird and night owl, such as the "bear" type, who peaks later in the day.

Understanding Sleep Struggles

05:32 – 11:12

Dr. Bell recounts her own battle with insomnia during medical residency, detailing how lack of sleep affected her personal and professional life. This personal narrative underscores the foundational role of sleep in overall health and performance.

• Impact of Insufficient Sleep:

  "Sleep is more than just feeling rested. It truly is the fabric and foundation for everything that you do in life." [05:32]

• Steps to Improve Sleep: Dr. Bell outlines her proactive approach to combating insomnia, including extensive reading, volunteering in sleep clinics, and training in cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia (CBT-I).

  "I started with literally reading every book there was about sleep... I volunteered in the sleep clinic... I did some trainings in cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia." [06:43]

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Insomnia (CBT-I)

07:19 – 11:48

Dr. Bell elaborates on CBT-I, distinguishing it from general sleep advice. She explains that while consistent sleep schedules and bedtime routines are beneficial, CBT-I addresses chronic insomnia by retraining the brain to develop a healthy relationship with sleep.

• Repairing the Sleep Relationship:

  "With CBT-I, we have to retrain your brain to establish a healthy relationship with sleep, to get rid of that stress and anxiety that's around sleep itself." [08:22]

• Addressing Underlying Causes: She emphasizes identifying and replacing negative thoughts about sleep and implementing strategies like stimulus control and sleep restriction to reinforce the association between bed and sleep only.

  "We're uncovering that underlying cause. We're not putting a band aid on it. We're fixing it at the root." [10:11]

• Medication and CBT-I: Dr. Bell discusses the drawbacks of prescription sleep medications, highlighting how CBT-I offers a more sustainable solution by addressing the root causes of insomnia without the side effects and dependency issues associated with medications.

  "People never learn healthy sleep habits. They just take something, then knock them out. They end up building tolerance to it." [10:19]

Practical Sleep Improvement Strategies

13:56 – 22:14

For listeners unable to access CBT-I professionally, Dr. Bell provides actionable steps to enhance sleep quality:

1. Prioritizing Sleep:

   "Start making sleep a priority and then take the steps necessary to improve your sleep." [13:56]

2. Consistent Wake-Up Times: Maintaining the same wake-up time daily regulates the circadian rhythm, enhancing sleep quality.

   "The best thing you can do for your sleep quality is actually wake up at the same time." [31:29]

3. Natural Light Exposure: Exposure to natural light in the morning helps stabilize melatonin production, crucial for restful sleep.

   "Getting natural light exposure helps to shut off your melatonin release... and it helps to stabilize the release of melatonin at night." [31:29]

4. Relaxing Bedtime Routine: Engaging in calming activities like meditation, reading, or taking a warm shower signals the brain to transition into sleep mode.

   "A consistent relaxing bedtime routine... helps you to come down again from the high stress state of the day." [31:29]

Addressing Sleep Disruptors and Myths

22:14 – 41:43

Dr. Bell tackles common misconceptions and challenges related to sleep:

• Cortisol, Stress, and Sleep:

  "When you're not getting enough sleep, you actually trigger your body's fight or flight stress response system." [20:27]

  She explains how chronic sleep deprivation leads to elevated cortisol levels, contributing to a host of health issues like high blood pressure, heart disease, and type 2 diabetes.

• Myth: Sleeping After Midnight Equals Worse Sleep:

  "It's a myth and it is a myth because some people are, like, naturally night owls." [40:46]

  Dr. Bell debunks the notion that bedtime after midnight inherently leads to poor sleep, emphasizing the importance of aligning sleep schedules with one's natural chronotype.

• Mouth Taping:

  "It is more important to figure out the underlying cause... than putting mouth tape on." [41:46]

  While acknowledging that mouth taping may help some individuals, Dr. Bell advises understanding the root cause of mouth breathing and snoring before resorting to such methods.

• Sleep Tracking Apps:

  "They have not been shown to consistently improve sleep and in some cases may harm it." [28:08]

  She discusses the potential drawbacks of sleep tracking apps, including increased sleep anxiety and inaccurate sleep stage detection, recommending their use for general trends rather than detailed analysis.

Special Considerations for Moms and Hormonal Changes

33:46 – 46:05

The discussion shifts to the unique sleep challenges faced by mothers and women undergoing hormonal changes:

• Sleep for Mothers: Dr. Bell offers strategies for mothers to regain control over their sleep patterns post the initial months of a child's life. She emphasizes teaching children independent sleep habits to foster better sleep for both mother and child.

  "It's about handling whatever business you need to handle in the middle of the night... do not look at the time." [33:46]

• Perimenopause and Sleep: Hormonal fluctuations during perimenopause significantly impact sleep quality. Dr. Bell suggests hormone replacement therapy and maintaining a conducive sleep environment to mitigate these effects.

  "There are significant drops in the hormones that are important for sleep that cause you to have sleep disruptions." [45:06]

Natural Sleep Aids and Supplements

25:51 – 43:55

• Melatonin:

  "Short term low dose course can be helpful when your circadian rhythm is thrown off." [25:51]

  Dr. Bell advises using melatonin responsibly, primarily for short-term adjustments like overcoming jet lag, and cautions against high doses and long-term use.

• CBD and THC:

  "We're finding in some research that it actually can worsen sleep quality." [27:25]

  While noting that some individuals may find relief with CBD or THC, she highlights the lack of comprehensive research and potential negative effects, recommending caution.

• Magnesium Glycinate:

  "Magnesium is a naturally occurring mineral that we need in our body... it helps to relax the muscles, relax the brain." [39:33]

  Dr. Bell endorses magnesium glycinate as her favorite sleep supplement due to its role in neurological processes and muscle relaxation.

Addressing Specific Sleep Issues

37:28 – 46:05

• Nightmares:

  "Nightmare rehearsal therapy is where you... train yourself to have an ending that's not so scary." [37:28]

  Dr. Bell explains this therapeutic approach to mitigate recurrent nightmares by altering their endings during waking hours.

• Sleep Apnea:

  "Get it treated first and then move on to any other sleep issues you might have." [43:55]

  Emphasizing the importance of treating sleep apnea with medical interventions like CPAP machines or dental appliances to restore quality sleep.

Unruly Toolkit: Mindset Shift

46:05 – 48:40

As the episode concludes, Dr. Bell contributes to the Unruly Toolkit by sharing a pivotal mindset shift:

"Instead of asking myself, have I worked hard enough to deserve to rest? I've started asking myself, have I rested enough to do my best work." [46:38]

This reframing underscores the essential role of sleep as a foundation for effective work and personal well-being, encouraging listeners to prioritize rest without guilt.

Conclusion

Shelah Marie and Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell wrap up the episode by reinforcing the significance of sleep in achieving holistic wellness. Dr. Bell directs listeners to her website, thesolutionissleep.com, for further resources and services.

"Sleep is important. Prioritizing sleep... helps you to reframe those thoughts and at least get you on the right path towards better sleep." [46:38]

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for Black women seeking to understand and improve their sleep patterns, offering both scientific insights and practical solutions to reclaim restful nights.

Connect with Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell

• Website: thesolutionissleep.com
• Social Media: Available on her website
• Book: Links provided on her website

For more personalized advice and services on sleep health, listeners are encouraged to visit Dr. Bell’s website and connect with her directly.

Note: This summary excludes advertisements, introductory remarks, and concluding statements unrelated to the core content, focusing solely on the valuable insights and discussions between Shelah Marie and Dr. Angela Holliday-Bell.