38: Becoming Who Your Purpose Requires ft. Jovian Zayne

Summary

Podcast Title: UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
Episode: 38: Becoming Who Your Purpose Requires ft. Jovian Zayne
Release Date: June 17, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 38 of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE, host Shelah Marie delves deep into the intricate relationship between personal purpose and the sacrifices it demands. This episode features Jovian Zayne, a renowned leadership coach, speaker, and founder of the On Purpose movement. Together, they explore what it truly means to live authentically according to one's purpose, especially for Black women navigating societal expectations and personal growth.

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Icebreaker: Rapid Fire Questions

To set a relaxed and candid tone, Shelah and Jovian begin with a series of rapid-fire questions, allowing listeners to connect with Jovian on a personal level.

Unexpected Catalyst for Purpose:

• Shelah: "What's the most unexpected thing that has helped you get closer to your purpose?"
• Jovian (01:59): "A breakup."

Both Shelah and Jovian resonate over similar experiences, highlighting the transformative power of personal setbacks.

Physical or Spiritual Cues of Being Off Purpose:

• Shelah: "What's your personal tell or your body's spirit cue that you're off your purpose?"
• Jovian (02:46): "I start to feel insecure... overthinking basic things... through the lens of others rather than what feels good to me."

Jovian emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and aligning actions with personal truth to stay on course.

Ideal Weekend Off:

• Shelah: "What does a joyfully non-stressful day look like for you?"
• Jovian (03:54): "An ideal world where someone's making all my meals, teleporting from the beach to a cabin with family, and having individual time to relax without obligations."

Jovian paints a picture of complete relaxation, free from societal pressures and personal responsibilities.

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Deep Dive: Living Your Purpose

Understanding the Costs of Purpose

Shelah introduces the episode's central theme: exploring the true costs of living one's purpose. They discuss the challenges of maintaining integrity, making difficult choices, and walking a path that may not always be clear or glamorous.

Jovian’s Journey: Jovian shares her personal story of a past relationship that hindered her growth and purpose. She reflects on the necessity of leaving toxic environments to reclaim creative energy and focus on her true calling.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (09:17): "When you stay in something you've outgrown, you experience the consequences... my purpose was in jeopardy."

Choosing Purpose Intentionally

They discuss the concept that purpose is not a fixed destination but a series of intentional choices made daily.

Jovian on Intentionality: Jovian emphasizes the importance of slowing down and making conscious decisions that align with one's values and desired impact.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (15:31): "Purpose is about the intentional choices we make every day... what would happen if everyone started to live on purpose and not by accident?"

Practical Steps: Jovian introduces the idea of journaling and self-reflection as tools to cultivate intentional living.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (17:24): "It's a slowdown. It's a conscious divestment from what is."

Navigating Public and Private Selves

Shelah poses a critical question about balancing public persona with private struggles, especially for those in the public eye.

Jovian’s Approach: Jovian discusses the importance of defining personal boundaries and seeking support from those who genuinely understand and can provide capacity during challenging seasons.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (26:24): "When I'm in a season of doubt... I need to be clear around who has capacity for me and go to them."

Embracing Change and Letting Go

The conversation shifts to recognizing when it's time to shed old versions of oneself to embrace new growth.

Indicators of Stagnation: Feelings of resentment and self-doubt are key indicators that it's time to let go of outdated behaviors or relationships.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (30:06): "If I'm starting to feel resentment, that's an indicator."

Creating Boundaries: Jovian shares personal strategies for setting boundaries to protect mental and physical health.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (32:02): "I'm gonna create a boundary for myself... It takes the pressure off for purpose."

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Navigating DEI and Corporate Environments

Authentic DEI Efforts vs. Performative Actions

Shelah inquires about Jovian’s experiences working with corporations on Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) initiatives and the challenges of genuine versus superficial efforts.

Jovian’s Insights: Jovian critiques the performative nature of some corporate DEI efforts, emphasizing that true inclusion requires deep, sustained commitment beyond surface-level actions.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (34:37): "Creating more diverse, equitable, and inclusive spaces... that's just a part of how you approach life."

Impact of Dismantling DEI Programs

They discuss the potential long-term effects of rolling back DEI initiatives, with Jovian expressing deep disappointment and concern.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (37:56): "The attempt to dismantle diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts... are really antithetical to the premise of America."

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Embracing a Multi-Hyphenate Purpose

Balancing Multiple Roles

Shelah raises a common concern among women balancing various roles and purposes, asking Jovian how to manage being a multi-hyphenate without feeling overwhelmed.

Jovian’s Advice: Jovian encourages embracing the multi-faceted nature of one's purpose with gratitude and discernment, advising listeners to honor each gift selectively based on current life seasons.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (40:31): "Be kind to your mind and appreciate that being a multi-hyphenate is your truth."

Practical Tool: Core4 Toolkit

Jovian introduces her Core4 Toolkit, a practical framework to help listeners define and align their purposes through four essential questions:

1. Who do you want to impact?
2. How do you want to impact them?
3. Who needs to impact you?
4. What behavior do you need to shift?

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (51:55): "Who do you want to impact? How do you want to impact them? Who needs to impact you? And what behavior do you need to shift?"

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Shelah and Jovian wrap up the episode by reiterating that purpose is an ongoing, intentional practice rather than a static end goal. They emphasize the importance of self-compassion, curiosity, and adaptability in living authentically.

Final Insights:

• Purpose evolves with personal growth and life seasons.
• Authentic living requires setting boundaries and making deliberate choices.
• Embracing multiple purposes can be managed through gratitude and selective focus.

Notable Quote:

• Jovian (50:00): "The nature of purpose is that it evolves, but its essence remains the same."

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Resources and Further Engagement

Jovian Zayne’s Contact Information:

• Email: [e-mail]
• Website: jovianzane.com
• Instagram: @jovianzane

Jovian’s Upcoming Projects:

• Book: Soft Landings for Hard Days – an extension of her coaching work.
• Newsletter: Soon to be launched, covering topics related to her book and coaching services.

Listener Engagement: Shelah encourages listeners to reach out with questions or topics for future episodes via voice notes at speakpipe.com/unruly.

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Final Thoughts: This episode of UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE offers a profound exploration of living purposefully, highlighting the balance between personal growth and societal expectations. Jovian Zayne’s insights provide practical tools and heartfelt encouragement for listeners striving to align their lives with their true calling.

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Thank you for tuning into UNRULY. Stay unruly, stay purposeful, and don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode!

Transcript

[Sheila Marie]

Welcome to Unruly. I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for black women, and the founder of the curvy curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who are all navigating their own paths to healing. Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly. Hey there, beautiful people. Welcome back to Unruly. You know, the place where we love to talk about purpose. Now, we have talked about purpose before. Finding your purpose, how to live your purpose, how to build a life around it. But we kind of kept it at a high level. We wanted to dig a little bit deeper and get a little more specific. Because sometimes no one talks about what it really costs to live your purpose. What does it cost to carry a vision? How do you walk with integrity to say the things that you believe in? How do you choose a path that may not always feel clear or glamorous? Okay, so today, honey, we got a gift for you. My guest today, she knows the cost and she honors it. Jovian Zane is a leadership coach, a speaker, and the founder of the On Purpose movement. She's worked with everyone from Nike to the Obama foundation, helping people live and lead with soul. In this episode, we're gonna talk about becoming the woman your purpose requires, what it means to lead without losing yourself, and how black women can stop performing purpose and start practicing it for real this time. Okay, so let's get into it. Welcome to Unruly. Jovienne.

[Jovian Zane]

Hey. I'm so glad to be here. This is amazing. I. I'm ready to be a little bit unruly with you, baby. Let's go. Oh, yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

That's my favorite. We love that friend. Yeah. So speaking of unruly, we're gonna start with, like, a little icebreaker section. These are kind of like rapid fire questions. Okay, ready? What's the most unexpected thing that has helped you get closer to your purpose?

[Jovian Zane]

A breakup.

[Sheila Marie]

Same, actually.

[Jovian Zane]

Right?

[Sheila Marie]

Same.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, a breakup.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, fair. Understood. What's understood? Don't need to be explained.

[Jovian Zane]

I'll say more later. I'm sure we're gonna get into it.

[Sheila Marie]

Yes.

[Jovian Zane]

But, yeah, I had to take my heart back.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, I feel you. And that. Literally, that moment, to me, I wrote about that in my book, too. It's like leaving a relationship that is not working for you will free up so much creative energy. Time, space in your mind. Free your mind. Right, baby?

[Jovian Zane]

And the rest follow. Come on, come on.

[Sheila Marie]

I love it. What's your personal tell or your body's spirit or your body or spirit's cue that you're off your purpose?

[Jovian Zane]

Oh, gosh, I'm insecure. Yeah, I'm starting to feel insecure. And I start to second guess myself a lot on basic things. Like, do I need to call this person? What am I wearing? Like, I'm overthinking a lot of things and I'm thinking about myself through the lens of other people versus considering what do I want, what do I need, what feels good to me?

[Sheila Marie]

Thinking about yourself. Thinking about yourself through the lens of other people is a tell that you're off track.

[Jovian Zane]

Oh, yeah, I'm way off track. I'm way off track. That means I've. I've gotten obsessed with other people's perspective about me when they don't know me like I know me. So if I'm trying to, you know, if I'm really trying to honor who I am and who I was created to be, who I feel like God set aside time and, like, put in some of God's best work on me. I am. When I'm insecure about that truth, I'm off.

[Sheila Marie]

Something's off.

[Jovian Zane]

I'm not. Yeah, something's off. Something's way off. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay. You have a weekend completely off. What does a joyfully non stressful day. Yeah. What does it look like for you?

[Jovian Zane]

A long weekend.

[Sheila Marie]

Exactly. A long weekend. You ain't got nothing to do. What does that look like for you?

[Jovian Zane]

An ideal world or realistic world?

[Sheila Marie]

Let's go. Ideal.

[Jovian Zane]

Okay. An ideal world is someone's making breakfast for me. Actually, someone's making breakfast, lunch and dinner and snacks. I am teleporting from the beach to maybe also a cabin. My daughter and my husband are around. We're together. And then we also all have individual time to chill and do whatever we want or play time. So I'm not. I can take good care of me and also be in support of other people without it feeling so overwhelming that I feel burnt out or lost. So, yeah, a real good weekend is I'm fed really well. I'm relaxing, like, and like one day of like, complete relaxation where there's those days where there is literally nothing on the to do list, but whatever comes to your mind to do, you don't feel beholden. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't even have to shower if I don't want to.

[Sheila Marie]

Right.

[Jovian Zane]

You know, like, I just get to eat and rest. I can watch something. I can read I can sleep. That's. I just.

[Sheila Marie]

And you're not, like, resetting for the next day. You're, like, enjoying the rest?

[Jovian Zane]

Yes, yes. Because even on Sundays, which Sunday's actually my favorite day of the week, but you know how Sundays.

[Sheila Marie]

I love Sundays.

[Jovian Zane]

You. Me too. Especially during football season, but I just love Sundays.

[Sheila Marie]

But period.

[Jovian Zane]

You know what I'm saying? But, like, let's imagine, like, the real Sundays now. It's almost like a countdown to a certain time, and then, like, it becomes six. You gotta start to get ready for the next day in some way.

[Sheila Marie]

So Sunday scaries.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay. So we're here to talk about purpose. All right, so. So I know. I think we're going to talk a little bit about what purpose means when you're showing up in the world. But for you, becoming the woman that that is in your purpose, what does it look like when nobody's watching?

[Jovian Zane]

It looks like, let's say it's an average. When actually Tuesday, because I've, in this season of life, have proclaimed Tuesday to be take care of Jovian days. That's the day I try to schedule all doctor's appointments, dentists.

[Sheila Marie]

I love this.

[Jovian Zane]

You know, when I was going to the physical therapist, I tried to make it on a Tuesday. My therapy appointments are on Tuesday. Like, Tuesday is Jovian's to dos. And when no one's watching because I'm not putting online my appointments, my personal appointments. Right. That's the. Tuesday is what keeps me able to show up fully or however, whatever fully looks like on a Wednesday or a Friday, you know? So purpose, I know, requires your intention. And what I've learned over time is I can't be intentional in coaching other leaders or other people, other moms in transition, other friends who are grieving or who are preparing for a new season of presence, or whether it's executive leadership or trying to step into entrepreneurship, I can't support anyone else as grounded as I can when I am taking care of me. So really being on purpose looks like being in the gym or taking an outdoor walk. It looks like creating space enough so I can be intentional about what I consume from a food perspective and also from a media perspective. Right.

[Sheila Marie]

I got hit in the head with that this week. Like, somebody was like, you're so focused on what you're consuming via eating, but do we. Do we have that same discernment for things we're consuming in the media? And I'm like, I just cannot consume certain things right now. Like, it brings my vibe down.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, right, right. And I think you have to be to your point. You gotta be really intentional about what you choose to consume to be who you're called to be. Like, right now, I know I am also called to be an active citizen in America. And I wanna be aware of things that are happening to the extent that it supports me in showing up on purpose as an active global citizen. And that, for me, means I'll take in some news, but from certain sources. And that means at certain hours of the day. Right?

[Sheila Marie]

Like, that's a good point.

[Jovian Zane]

I had to cut. I was like, I am not gonna scroll or look at anything related to political news or even civic education after a certain time at night. Cause it will throw off my routine and my vibe for the evening. And my rest time is really God's time to help reset me. So I need to be centered for that, you know, So I completely. I'm with you. With.

[Sheila Marie]

So let's go back to baby. I don't know if you were Baby Jovian, but you were in this relationship that wasn't serving you. And you're. You don't know it yet, but you're just about to find your purpose in a big way. What's happening?

[Jovian Zane]

So I. In college, I dated a few people, but there was this one relationship that I was like, oh, this is it. Like, I'm in love. I'm calling my mom and dad, you know. Oh, my gosh. Same. You already know what I'm talking about, right, girl? We just like, oh, this is it, girl. This is the one he's gonna be. You know, And I'm out here bending backwards, forward, left, right, every which way. I mean, I'm just.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah. Cooking, bringing food to the. Yeah, yeah. All the things I'm just spent.

[Jovian Zane]

I'm like, you know, And I was for. In college, I was very active. I was actually a senior class president at my university. I was involved in all kinds of clubs and organizations, et cetera. And yet I was also managing this relationship. What was clear, what became clear over time, was that we were not equally yoked spiritually. And we were also, as I look back now, and I was able to tell probably then, but I just didn't want to admit it. We were not equally yoked, even on a personality level or like a drive level. Like, there was a certain kind of churning in me that even though I couldn't articulate it as I could, as I can now, you know, 20 years later, at that time, I couldn't articulate the kind of passion and drive I had to Impact people in the way that I do now as a coach and as a business owner. But I did know Jovianne. You're meant to touch a large amount of people with your life. Your life is meant to be an example for other people. I've always been clear about that in some way, shape or form, and felt like a nicely applied pressure to it that came from purpose. Like a, you know, clarity sometimes makes you more clarity, gives you a sense of pressure, depending on what you're aware of, right? And you could choose how you want to handle it. But in that relationship, we were not yoked spiritually. I remember I'll never forget him saying, like, you know, I used to believe in God, but I feel like now I kind of outsmarted it at all. Like, I just don't need more.

[Sheila Marie]

You're like, oh, okay.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, baby. I was like, really? And, I mean, I remember praying about it, like. And I remember I am a PK in lots of different ways. Both of my grandfathers were pastors. My mom was in the church.

[Sheila Marie]

I feel like I've interviewed three preachers, daughters already.

[Jovian Zane]

Listen. Wow.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, y' all really bring the gems. Y' all have a lot of insight.

[Jovian Zane]

We do, right? We've been raised a certain way with a lot of people who are trying to do good work in the world. You know what I'm saying? But he and I, that guy at the time, like, we weren't spiritually yoked. And like I said, personality yoked are just, like, in terms of an ambition, we just didn't match up. And I spent a lot of time trying to convince other people that he was a match for me. And I remember one of my aunts.

[Sheila Marie]

Being, like, so much energy spent on that girl.

[Jovian Zane]

I remember one of my aunts being like, I know that you're saying you love him, but I don't wanna hurt your feelings, but he's not the one. And I was crushed. I actually haven't really talked about that out loud, but I was so hurt. I was so hurt by it, because I was just like, no, it's it. But it wasn't so. Just, like, I noticed. I've ended up noticing later in life, when you stay in something you've outgrown, you will experience the consequences of that. Just like a plant that is meant to balloon and meant to need a lot of space to really create the fullest extent of its development, to develop all the petals, to, like, all the new seeds, you need a bigger pot. But being in a relationship, that is stunting your Growth means you will experience moments of insecurity, of severe doubt. You'll question yourself. And not just in one area of your life, but it will likely spill over in other areas. So that. That was a time when my purpose was in jeopardy.

[Sheila Marie]

What was the moment that you were like, I'm gonna. This right here is gonna propel me to my purpose.

[Jovian Zane]

There's not just, if I'm honest, Jayla, there's not just one moment. No, I think it's been a collection of moments. And I talk about them often in my work as, like, breadcrumbs. So you likely have them too. Think back right now for a second over key moments in your life that have helped you to become more clear, over who you want to serve, who you want to be better because of how you show up, you know, the kind of legacy you want to develop. All of those things are an important part, an important part of purpose. And what I'm talking about, those moments, they're breadcrumbs. And if you think about breadcrumbs as things that you leave behind that if you were to turn around and pick up, they help carry you back home to the clearer sense of self, to an understanding that is. That's been filtered through all the mess, that you can see yourself more clearly, that's not been stained by life's disappointments or overwhelming expectations of others similar to society or how you've been socialized. Those breadcrumbs help you distill down. Wait, who am I again? What am I meant to do? Who am I meant to serve? How am I meant to show up? That's unique to me. And so there's a lot of those moments I think about breaking up with that guy. That was a moment. Another moment was moving into my first role at a nonprofit called Teach for America, where Shout out to Teach for America. Yep. Shout out to tfa. It's evolved and changed what the Teach for America that I experienced when I came in on the regional team in New York City, I was honestly resuscitated in some ways because of the really toxic work environment that I had come out of. Really high achieving at the time, but the environment was really toxic. And it gotten me confused about how I wanted to define success for myself. I heard you say Sunday Scaries. You know, those breadcrumb moments. One of them was remembering, like, I don't ever want to feel that close to depression or truly being depressed again because of work. That's not living well. I'm not meant to work in an environment that strips Me of my confidence, my joy, my ability to encourage other people. Because I did know that being Jovian meant you got to encourage people. And I felt lost in that. So those are two moments. That breakup and stepping into a new career with a better career culture.

[Sheila Marie]

So you've said before that purpose is chosen. What does this mean to you? And what are the consequences of not choosing or choosing?

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, you know, I think when I've likely, Excuse me, alluded to that at some point, it's about the intentional choices that we could choose to make every day and in a moment that help us to feel more purposeful in how we live. Like I like to say, you know, what would happen if everyone started to live on purpose and not by accident? Like, just think about it, Shay.

[Sheila Marie]

What would that look like?

[Jovian Zane]

What would it look like?

[Sheila Marie]

Just imagine imagining.

[Jovian Zane]

Imagine I see your face. Like, if more people really took their lives seriously. Like, it's important to trick off and have fun and whatever. And yet I think there are so many of us that are just kind of going through life in a haze that are letting life happen to you.

[Sheila Marie]

That's so true.

[Jovian Zane]

Right. That are letting life happen to us. And by happen to us, I mean, we're doing what people told us to do. We're not interrogating the standards that we hold for ourselves. We're just doing it because, oh, my mama said this is what I should do by this time.

[Sheila Marie]

Right.

[Jovian Zane]

You know, or everyone at my age is trying to buy a house, so I guess that's what's appropriate. Or everyone who I look at online is becoming an entrepreneur. Okay. That's what we do now. We just go with a tide. And when you're so easily moved by the tide, you know what really happens when tides come in and tides go out, the stones that are there, they get smoother. They're changing because of it. We're always changed by a tide. But I want. I mean, my questioning around purpose, when I talk about choosing it is being more intentional. Or where are you sitting when that water comes in? Are you just letting yourself be moved? Are you moving yourself? Are you being intentional in how you want to show up? So I think there are choices that we can make every day that allow us to impact the world around us with a more positive intent.

[Sheila Marie]

How do we get to that intentionality?

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, it's a slowdown. It's a slowdown. It's a slowdown. And it's a conscious divestment from what is. So in practice, that can look like just saying to yourself, before you go to bed at night, how do I want to experience the nighttime? How do I want to experience my nighttime? Just asking yourself that question. I.

[Sheila Marie]

You're not gonna. This is crazy. I literally just before this interview, interviewed a doctor who specializes in sleep and she said something just like you just said, right?

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, I'm, I'm not, I'm not surprised because a part of most practices in terms of changing your behavior, like human behavior, shifts from the mind and that has to first start with your clarity of an intention. Becoming self aware, a part of emotional intelligence. There are four quadrants. If I'd use Daniel Goldman's work, there's like two big pillars. There's self awareness or not self awareness, but there's like, there's awareness and then there is management, like the management of yourself and others. And it comes with also over here that self awareness first. You can't manage other people better and even yourself better in different environments if you're not aware of how you're showing up and what you want to be true. What needs to shift.

[Sheila Marie]

That's so true.

[Jovian Zane]

Right? So if someone's like, hey Jovian, I wanna be more on purpose today, what should I do? I may tell em first start with literally, let's take one experience today, one routine you typically go through and I want you to slow down, give yourself permission to take the next five minutes to get curious and ask yourself an open ended question that you will be lovingly open to explore. Just like I offered you. How do I want to experience my nighttime? I didn't even say routine but like how do I want to experience my nighttime?

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, so let's say you asked me that and I said I want to experience peacefully.

[Jovian Zane]

And then what would it look like to invite peace in your nighttime?

[Sheila Marie]

Ah, okay, okay. Well it would look like, okay, so it would look like just calmly going to sleep and waking up feeling rested. And sometimes I think about how I'm gonna sleep. I said obsess about it a little bit because sometimes I have insomnia. So I'm like, oh my God, am I gonna sleep? Am I gonna sleep? Am I gonna sleep?

[Jovian Zane]

So sounds like the insomnia has gotten you more aware of potentially the outcome of not sleeping well. And that actually stops you from sleeping well sometimes to some extent.

[Sheila Marie]

And if I think about it honestly, what you're about to point to really is that my insomnia is really an extension of kind of thought processes that I have during the day. So it's not like a separate issue, if that makes sense.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're connected.

[Sheila Marie]

Did that make sense there?

[Jovian Zane]

It does make sense. No, it does. It absolutely does make sense. They're connected. So I hear you saying that you want to invite peace into your nighttime. What's one action you can take that feels peaceful?

[Sheila Marie]

Well, I'm not going to like it, but since I talked to the sleep doctor, she said not to scroll on my phone right before I go to sleep, and I think she's right. I think I could take that out. That would be good.

[Jovian Zane]

I'm a plus one. The doc on that, the good doc on that. Okay, so you're right now giving yourself an invitation to explore how to be more purposeful, how to be more on purpose with one specific action, and that is to stop scrolling before nighttime. Right before you get into the bed.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah. Am. Am I. Am I on track when I say it sounds like purpose is linked to curiosity in some way?

[Jovian Zane]

You better pick up what I'm putting down. Yes, yes, Sheila. Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay. Can you tell us about that?

[Jovian Zane]

I love that question there. You know, this, the idea, purpose. If you look up different definitions, there are many of them that are going to come back to, like, intent, the meaning for or of something, the objective for an experience, et cetera. And before you want to set an intention before a meeting or an experience, it's helpful to get curious around what it is that you're hoping you want to invite into that. What is it you want to be true. Now, we can't control every outcome that we experience in life. Much of the chagrin of my very Virgo self. But it's true. You cannot, girl. We cannot control everything. What I do believe, though, is that we can be intentional around what we're putting in, what we hope to receive, and what we want to give to others and to ourselves. And so getting curious around what is up for me, what's stopping me from doing the thing that I'm hoping to intend to do or getting? And when we get curious, curious is very different. Or curiosity is different from judgment. Okay. Judgment constricts, it contains, it closes us up, whereas curiosity liberates, it expands, it gives us a deeper sense of freedom and likely more grace. Because when you're curious, even in tone, like, I wonder about what would make me right, instead of even asking a question like, why? Because sometimes why can create a defensive posture for ourselves.

[Sheila Marie]

That's true.

[Jovian Zane]

Right. So a more tell. Like, even asking yourself, like, tell me more about why you want to scroll before bed.

[Sheila Marie]

Right, Right.

[Jovian Zane]

What do you want to see? And just Asking yourself that, girl. And just, like, you're beautifully smiling right now. The smile means, like, I see you, I love you, and, like, I'm not hard on you right now. I'm lovingly asking, like, tell me more about that.

[Sheila Marie]

I love the idea that we're soft with ourself in the process, because I think some of us can get a little hard on ourselves when it comes to purpose. What would you say to somebody who says, my purpose scares me a little bit?

[Jovian Zane]

I would say, I understand. I understand, and I get it. I do. I do. Because there are moments when I felt. When I was younger, perhaps I felt. I'm not gonna say totally scared about my purpose, but I think what I was nervous about was just the unknown of it and how for that person who's like, I feel so I felt scared about it, I would lovingly invite you to get curious around, like, what scares you? You know, what is it really? Fear? Are you nervous about something? What has you apprehensive? What's behind?

[Sheila Marie]

Again, it's going back to the curiosity.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. Getting curious. What's behind the fear? Because typically there's some kind or desire that we want to address that we haven't given ourselves some space to be vulnerable enough to acknowledge. So for me, when I was, you know, when I felt somewhat scared or nervous about purpose, it's actually because I've been projecting a sense of probably some other people's expectation over what I should be doing and by when. You know what I'm saying? Like, I. I don't even think about my purpose now in terms of milestones. Like, I'm working on a book, which we'll talk about, but even the book. The book is an extension. Thank you. Thank you. The book is called Soft Landings for Hard Days.

[Sheila Marie]

Ooh.

[Jovian Zane]

I know you love the title.

[Sheila Marie]

That's a great title.

[Jovian Zane]

Thank you. Girl hits me every time, right?

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Jovian Zane]

Thank you. Thank you. To God be the glory. So every time, you know, I could think about this book right now, I could get scared that it's not going to touch people. And then if I obsess over that, then I will stop writing. But if I choose to obsess over the actual. Just the practice of, like, wow, I'm learning so much as I'm writing, and the actual practice of this is making me expand and learn and feel better about who I am and how I'm even in conversation with you right now. It takes the pressure off for purpose, and it just makes me more aware that I am Being intentional and trying to do what I know I'm called to do, which my sense of purpose directs me to encourage the human spirit. So I'm not scared of doing that.

[Sheila Marie]

That's good. I'm glad you're not, because we need you. How do you navigate, like being a public voice? So I'm gonna ask this question, but I think it relates to. So you're public. You're a public facing figure. Somebody might be listening and not be a public facing, but still have to face the public. So how do you navigate? Right. So we're all in our own ways. You have to be. You have to put on a face for your family, for your work, for your whoever. How do you navigate being a public voice for purpose while privately going through a season of doubt or fog?

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. This question is so powerful because I think this is the truth of the human experience. There's a chapter in my book that's actually talking about honoring the seasons of your life. And there are different seasons that show up for us. Seasons where we may be called to do different things, we may require different things of ourselves, our body may need different attention. Just whatever. When I am in a season of doubt, and it may be because I am exploring something really new and I feel overwhelmed by it and really, like, I don't feel steady in anything that I've known. Like, it's just a lot of newness. What I know for sure is that I need to be clear around who has capacity for me and go to them and not confuse who I want to have capacity for me for who actually does hear what I'm saying. So when I was first.

[Sheila Marie]

Very important distinction.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. When I was first, like, starting the writing process, girl, I felt. I still feel like this, but, like, earlier on, I just felt like I was butt booty naked every day. Just out there.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, yeah.

[Jovian Zane]

You know, right?

[Sheila Marie]

Yes. It's like that dream when you have, like, you go to school naked. It's like that in real life.

[Jovian Zane]

Yes.

[Sheila Marie]

You're writing.

[Jovian Zane]

Yes. I was just like, oh, I'm out here and everybody can see everything. I'm trying to. Like, she don't know what she's doing. These words don't make sense.

[Sheila Marie]

All of the things.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. She's talking about. She's an expert. And that doesn't. That's not deep. Like, what are we talking about? Just. I felt so untethered and just like. And I. What I've realized there's so much of. In our generation, our lives that are lived, performed, exhibited, shared publicly for People. I've actually been a very private person for most of my life and a very discerning person. I think it's just like a natural spiritual gift that I've been given. I've seen my mom exercise it, so I think it's probably also how I was socialized, to be honest. But I also have built skill around discerning and understanding who has the capacity to meet me at the point of my need. So I've gotten good at knowing who are the friends who I can call for certain things. And I will actually tell. I will. To the person who's like, they're scared or like, you're feeling foggy, like me. Give yourself permission to make a new list of people, spaces, places that are aligned with what you need for that time. When I am feeling foggy, I am not going to the Internet to get clarity. I'm not the kind of person who's going to work out with 140 characters what I got going on. That's not the one who's like, oh, let me ask a really big and deep question on my timeline and expect people to get. That's just not me. No, I'm much better going to people one on one or in small groups, and that's what I'll do. I also. I have my. Remember I told you about my Tuesdays, My take care of Jovian Tuesdays?

[Sheila Marie]

That's a. I gotta get. I gotta get a day Saturday, Sheila on Sunday. I don't know what day. I'm gonna figure it out.

[Jovian Zane]

Like, you have to figure out what your day is where it's like, it's your time. It's your time. So, like, I. Like Sheila, I cannot be. I gotta be with my therapist. I gotta be with certain friends. I gotta be with my partner, my husband.

[Sheila Marie]

Mm.

[Jovian Zane]

You know, so when I'm feeling foggy, I know that, and I gotta take care of it. And I don't try to pretend that I'm not right how.

[Sheila Marie]

Okay, so let's talk about life transitions. Right? How do you know when it's time to shed an old version of yourself, even if it's like the. The version of you that has helped you survive and get to where you are?

[Jovian Zane]

Ooh. Say it again.

[Sheila Marie]

How do you know when it's time to let go of a version of yourself, even though you feel like. But that's my dog. Like, we. We. We've been through so much together. Like, she got me to where I am, but she might not be able to get me where I'm Going, Right. How do you know? How do you know? How do you know when it's time?

[Jovian Zane]

Um, there's likely a lot of different indicators that show up for me. If I'm starting to feel resentment, that's an indicator.

[Sheila Marie]

If I'm feeling for yourself or towards other people.

[Jovian Zane]

Even myself or other people. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

That's a good one.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. Here's tactical example. I have always liked to keep a certain amount of structure around me to get, like, to feel just. I like cleanliness. I like a certain amount of order.

[Sheila Marie]

It is what it is.

[Jovian Zane]

You know what I'm saying? And so I used to really struggle to go to bed if the kitchen wasn't cleaned, because I was. Yeah, I was raised like that, too. Like, we would all. Like, my brothers and I, we. I'd have the dishes, Trey would have the floor. Roma would have to mop. Whatever. It was just the kitchen.

[Sheila Marie]

And you gotta fold that rag across the. On the sink. Like, that's how you know the kitchen is closed. And the light above the oven is on.

[Jovian Zane]

The light above the oven is on.

[Sheila Marie]

And that's it. Don't get nothing else.

[Jovian Zane]

Kitchen closed, closed. You feel me, right?

[Sheila Marie]

I'm the one who now I'm the one doing that. I'm, like, turning it on. All right, Keisha's closed. Listen, you.

[Jovian Zane]

You totally get it, but here's the thing. You talk about leaving a party behind for a certain season, certain time. My daughter, George and I, my husband, our daughter, we have a daughter named Georgie. She's five and a half.

[Sheila Marie]

That is so cute.

[Jovian Zane]

Thank you. So with the J. She's the best. So shout out to you, Georgie.

[Sheila Marie]

Oh, my God, that's cute.

[Jovian Zane]

I know, right? J, O, R, G, I, E. Anyway, so Georgie is five, and you know this, like, the season of life. She requires a lot. Georgie and I also have very significant projects we're working on right now that require a lot. Baby. I realized. I was like, oh, eight o' clock comes. If it's not done, whatever chore that is, even if the kitchen isn't all the way clean, it's. It's over. That's a. I have created a boundary for myself. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

So you don't keep working yourself and just.

[Jovian Zane]

I'm like, oh, it's 8:00. Uh, oh, this is it. They have to wait till tomorrow. Like, oh, well, I missed it and it's fine. And, girl, there's. Sometimes I feel like I'd be trying to secretly be like, oh, it's 7:59. I'm over. Or Just like I let it be. But I've had to let the part of me that used to care about having that done go. I appreciate her. She helps me to create strong routines and, you know, honor, structure and cleanliness and all that. That's fine. But I also need to let her take a break because she's not in jeopardy. Like, my house is not in jeopardy of getting really dirty. I'm not falling apart. But what would fall apart if I let her continue to rule would be my mental and physical health.

[Sheila Marie]

That's right.

[Jovian Zane]

Because she would say, you gotta keep cleaning, you gotta keep folding clothes, you.

[Sheila Marie]

Gotta keep one more thing, one more.

[Jovian Zane]

Thing, one more thing. And the Jovian of one more thing isn't needed right now.

[Sheila Marie]

Isn't needed. I love that. I also wanna. So you also have a lot of experience working in corporate and in the DEI space. And I actually wanna talk to you a little bit about that because I really, I really still. I admire how much you, inside these corporations and on your own, still maintain a certain level of activism and being politically charged and involved again, it's like so difficult sometimes. I'm like, man, how do you stay in? It feels so toxic, so sometimes overwhelming. But you have worked with major corporations on diversity and inclusion. And I want to know from your perspective, have you ever felt like some of the initiatives felt more like focused on optics rather than genuine change? And if so, how did you navigate that tension?

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, it's actually part of the reason why my work isn't as focused on DEI actually got out. I would. It's hard to say, get out of, but because once if your work is rooted truly in creating more diverse, equitable and inclusive spaces, spaces of belonging, of. Of trust, that's just a part of how you approach life, relationships. And that's the truth for me, that's how I approach things.

[Sheila Marie]

That's definitely comes across clear.

[Jovian Zane]

Right. You know, it's not. I'm not pretending this is who I am and what I believe in, but I absolutely experienced in a lot of spaces earlier, I would say about five, six years ago, where a lot of companies, when we were working valiantly, and particularly around the time 2019, 2018, and then of course, the murder of George Floyd ignited a many ways performative racial reckoning within America. And there was also global efforts as well that I would acknowledge. I think a lot of companies wanted to be on the right side of the moment. And what we're seeing is that not enough companies wanted to be on the right side of history or her story Their story. Right. They wanted to be on the right side of that moment and wanted to go with a really strong pendulum swing. I knew that. And I think there is strategy to play when you are a consultant and when you're. When you're an employee of a corporation. I always tell my leaders I support now, like, you know, you're an at will employee. What do you want to choose to do and how do you. What's your relationship with work going to be so you can be well while you're there? What are the things you need from that place so you can still be purposeful in how you live and honor the most of who you are? That's what. That's always my game endgame. I want to support people in that. That's what I've started to understand for myself when I used to work for someone else. And I think a lot of companies did perform and we saw that. And I think when you do not have leadership that truly understands their own sense of what's at stake and what they want to. What they're willing to pay to be on the right side of the bigger picture. Not the moment, but the bigger picture. And we see what we're seeing now.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm gonna be honest with you. Not too long ago, they painted over the Black Lives Matter mural. Mural that was painted in D.C. and I was like, so what? I'm supposed to be upset about that? Because again, I'm like, when I look at that, that feels like if Washington D.C. actually demonstrated that Black Lives Matter, I would have felt hurt by that mural being taken off. But to me, it's just optic. It's just a street painting. Take it off, leave it, I don't care. I'm more concerned with legislation. I'm more concerned with having politicians that are actually gonna uplift our concerns, you know, preach. So. And then last question on this. Cause you're just. You're the first person I've had that works in. I like always talk to so many girlies who are like, I've just. I'm either working in TV or entertainment or I'm working my own way. And I have literally, I think I've worked maybe one corporate. Ish. The most corporate job I've worked was working as a teaching artist at a theater company. Like that's not even corporate at all.

[Jovian Zane]

I love it.

[Sheila Marie]

They would do some type of corporate. It feels like an unknown territory to me. So I'm curious, from your perspective, how do you feel about the current dismantling of DEI programs and what do you feel like these long term effects could be.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, I hate it. I really do. And I hate it not just for my generation or even for my daughters because I think by the time that she's working the pendulum would have swung again. But I really hate it for the boomers, for my parents generation, for my grandparents, for. I hate it for people who've really spent their life creating opportunities that I've been able to really boldly and YouTube experience. Like we are experiencing a certain amount of freedom because of their sacrifice.

[Sheila Marie]

Correct.

[Jovian Zane]

I don't take that for granted. I don't take that lightly. I am like, I am hyper aware of that and that is why I feel disgusted and disappointed in addition to the fact that it is to me so anti the dismantling. The attempt to dismantle the diversity, equity and inclusion and real liberation efforts of this country are really antithetical to the premise of America. And that's just like on a very basic intellectual level you acknowledge that or if you want to live through the delusion of your attempted supremacy, then you would think that that's not the truth. Yeah, but that's just. It's obviously not. I don't even like to entertain that anymore. It's just like, yeah, you're literally just trying to hold onto some sliver of power. Dude, we all know how this ends. It's not gonna work out in the full end of things, but whatever. So I spend time now really trying to hold space in my heart and in my actions, like what drives me. It is, yes, the future and creating a world that the next generation will tend to and be able to live in. And also I would love to leave to let my parents and my grandparents and mentors, et cetera, transition out of this on this plane, remembering that their work wasn't done in vain and like seeing leaving on more hope than more turmoil and more disappointment.

[Sheila Marie]

I love that. Back to purpose. I have a purpose question for you, which is, so what if someone's listening right now? They love everything you're saying. They believe, like, yes, I believe in my purpose, I should have a purpose. But they feel conflicted because they feel multi hyphenate. There's a lot of women who I attract women like this too, who are like, but what if I don't have a singular purpose? Like how do I balance multiple purposes? Or what. What does that look like?

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah, my husband is a multi hyphenate. I think I am too. I, I'm just wired a little bit differently. And, and also I've Been trained career wise. I can focus in different ways. I think multi hyphenates are so powerful and we. There is a, a really beautiful dance that we play. If I think about my husband and like you and others who can do so many really powerful things, like you could create this podcast and edit it and get the books and, you know, designed likely. There's just so many different things you could do. Right. Here's what I'll say to, to anybody who's in that space. One sell first, start with gratitude. Over like, that's your existence. Like reposition. Like be kind to your mind and appreciating that that's your truth instead of denouncing your mind. Yeah. Be kind to your mind. Be kind to like be soft. And when I say soft, I don't mean like gentle in a fleeting way. Being gentle is actually a really tough thing to do because it's countercultural. So be gentle with the truth that you are a multi hyphenate, which means you have so many special things to hold to think about it. Like eggs. You can't be rough with these eggs. You have to be gentle in how you talk to them and how you tend to the eggs in your life, your gifts, which also mean that they each need to be cradled for particular seasons or particular times. Right. Cracking 10 eggs at once means you're likely getting shells everywhere. It's a mess. But when you crack or open up one gift at a time with care and attention doesn't mean you're not gonna open up another one right after it. But like with care and attention, when you give it that care and attention, you're doing something that allows it to fall where it needs to to make sure there's no shells in it. Right? So I would tell the person first, be kind to your mind and give yourself space and time to honor each gift. We talk about being a multi hyphenate, you're likely talking about the skills or gifting you have, like your ability. If I think about George, he can, like, he's got a screenplay that he's written and also he's going to direct. And also he's created a podcast and he's, he is a writer and a producer. Like, there's just so many different things that he can do. And also because life is seasonal, we understand that from the greatest teacher, Mother Nature, you gotta pay attention to the season of life you're in to acknowledge which, like, which gift or which egg do I need to be opening right now? Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should be doing it for that time, right? Just because you could do it before, even if you could do it like two years ago, no, it's excellent. You've changed, you've evolved. So give yourself space to ask yourself the question, what would it look like for me to live well right now and honoring my particular gifts?

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[Jovian Zane]

Prescription only Safety info found at Freestyle Libre Us. Like that question, I think if people really answer it honestly, it helps you to think about within a particular season, what does it mean to be on purpose? And let me take one step back, like before I wrap this question. If you think about purpose like I think about purpose, the idea of it as this idea of, like positive impact in the world, which is what I believe we were all meant and created to do in some way, shape or form. Your purpose will evolve as you evolve. But as I know, like for me, I've gotten clear, like a big headline or umbrella of my purpose is to encourage the human spirit. Earlier in my life, even when I was, you know, in elementary school, that looked like standing up for the kid that was getting picked on. That looked like when I became a teenager running for student body president, that looked like when I was in college holding space for my girls going through a breakup or feeling really sick over a friendship, it looked like encouraging them. It looks like now coaching and traveling and speaking, you see how like, the nature of it has changed in form, but the essence of it is the same. So I would ask people to get curious around the essence. Like, what's the real undercurrent of why you have these gifts, what your intention is in using them and give yourself space to consider right now in my life, which gift or gifts, because it can't be plural, should I be deploying to have the kind of purposeful impact.

[Sheila Marie]

That I want that you don't need to exercise all the gifts at the same time? There might be a season where one might take the front stage and then that's a great Way to look at it. Yeah.

[Jovian Zane]

I love that there's nothing being left behind. You know, you may be like, think about it. Like, stuff on a shelf. Like, oh, let me go put you over here to rest for a little bit and let me take you down. Like, seasoning girl. What? Like, right?

[Sheila Marie]

Well, some people say you're not supposed to put garlic and onion powder on everything. But.

[Jovian Zane]

But we are black, and it's garlic, onion powder, salt and pepper, baby. Let's go.

[Sheila Marie]

I was gonna give a seasoning metaphor, and then I was like, wait, no. But speaking of discernment, I have one last question for you before we go to our toolkit is what if you're stuck between a good opportunity and an aligned one? Like, not saying stuck, because that's the implication that they're both available at the same time. How do you know the difference between an opportunity that's good for you and one that's aligned?

[Jovian Zane]

Well, what's good?

[Sheila Marie]

I know. Hey, let me say it like this. You're right, because that's a good question.

[Jovian Zane]

How.

[Sheila Marie]

How would I choose between an opportunity that looks good and one that I feel is more aligned? Like, let's say. I'll give you an example, because this happens to me all the time. Like, oh, my gosh, this brand deal or whatever looks like it'll. It'll give me a lot. Like, they're gonna pay me really well. I mean, I'm not the. Like, I love the product. I like it, but it's not like there are. There are those moments when I get something and I'm just like, oh, this is easy. I could talk about this. Easy peasy, lemon squeezy. But I feel like I might have to work myself, but I could do it. Versus this opportunity. Feels much more aligned. But they may not be paying me in the way that I want.

[Jovian Zane]

Been there. I think it's important to interrogate what success is constantly.

[Sheila Marie]

That's true.

[Jovian Zane]

Because your family may require or ask in that season for you to say yes to a deal that meets certain requirements. Meaning. Can I talk about this with integrity? Is it a little harder for me to do. Yeah, because I gotta do a little bit more research or I haven't used it as much, but I do believe in it. Like, I think it could be meaningful. Like, you have to determine what your markers are. But I think determining between what's good and what's aligned has to come from a space of values. So knowing your personal core value. Yeah, yeah. Knowing your personal core values is the way that I decipher. And discern between opportunities all the time. It's how I've chosen what jobs to take and what jobs I'm leaving behind, what I'm saying no to, et cetera. So your cause, your core values help you make your biggest decisions. They're the. They're the drivers. So that's what I would. I would. For someone, even for you right now, you're trying to figure out, like, how do I say yes to this deal or not? Is it in alignment with my core values or not? And if it is, I would say, okay, it's worth me looking at it more because if it comes down to it's just a little. Yeah. Get curious, like, if it's just a little harder to do. If there's no real negative side, meaning, like, not bad brand association, but. And your family needs the money for that season, that may be a yes. Or if the season you. That you're in is like, man, this actually is going to take four days for me to do, and I don't have those four days emotionally right now to commit to that. It's like the four days emotionally really need to be spent with my bonus children, with my partner or with my fan, you know, who. Whatever else, or my mental health, then it's a no, period. Yeah, it may be. It's a no for right now. It ain't gotta be a no forever.

[Sheila Marie]

But, like, that's also a good point.

[Jovian Zane]

Right.

[Sheila Marie]

Speak a lot about seasons, right? Like, yeah, like, know where your values are. Know what season that you are. Because your purpose, although it stays the same, it can look different. Like you were saying.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

The content stays the same. The form might be.

[Jovian Zane]

I think it evolves. Yeah. I really. I really. I think it's not that I think purpose stays the same. I think that there is. Howard Thurman talked about this. He talked about this. This idea of, like, the sound of the genuine, which is like the heartbeat to any person, just the natural rhythm to you. Part of your underpinning, what you were created to do, part of what I think it really is difficult for many of us is that we're moving at a pace that isn't natural to how we were meant to move in the world. And so it doesn't feel good to slow down.

[Sheila Marie]

I learned that during the pandemic.

[Jovian Zane]

Right. And a lot of us did, but now we've forgotten it because we got caught up in speeding up.

[Sheila Marie]

Yeah.

[Jovian Zane]

Yeah. But I told myself, I journaled it, I wrote it, I reflected so much, like, girl, don't go Back to that. That really did not serve you in the way that, you know, it could. And so me being even purposeful is acknowledging that and being countercultural and how I constantly am giving myself time where there's, like, I'm not responding to that text right now. I will respond in two days, and that could feel crazy, But I just have to come up with a new rhythm for how I communicate, because if I always feel like I have to be able to respond to everyone else's entry into my life, I will not know my life. My life will just be a series of responses to external stimuli. Yeah.

[Sheila Marie]

And stimuli, like you said. Right.

[Jovian Zane]

And I don't want that. That's me living on accident. I can't be purposeful when I'm always just, like, in response, you know, or reacting.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm guilty of that, even responding.

[Jovian Zane]

Reacting. You know what I'm saying? That's. Mm. Mm.

[Sheila Marie]

You have given us so much to think about. I feel like I'm reevaluating several choices I've made today. Just talking like. Okay, let me say it like this. I'm cur. I'm curious of it.

[Jovian Zane]

There you go.

[Sheila Marie]

I'm gonna ask myself more questions because I do think that, yes, that. That. Especially the part about pacing. I think that that's just a way to stay connected, is really working at your own pace. So this is the part of the interview where we have an unruly toolkit, and it has all these tools in it, and we would like for you to put a tool in the toolkit about finding their purpose or being a leader in their life. Whatever tool you wanna leave in their toolbox before you get outta here, I love it.

[Jovian Zane]

Okay. I'm gonna give you all my trademarked Core 4. Yes. This is a biggie. People typically have to pay a lot for this. I'm gonna drop it on in here. Ooh.

[Sheila Marie]

Thank you. You're welcome.

[Jovian Zane]

But seriously, okay, so this. This Core4 toolkit, first, I would invite everyone. Before you think about this, go into it with creating a sense of agreements with yourself that you'll be gentle with yourself. You'll give yourself time to explore and to get curious and to be kind with what the truth is of these answers. Okay. That's the first way. I just want to help you set the table before you even start to journal or think about these. But the first question goes to who you want to impact. So if you're thinking about, like, what does purpose look like for me, I just ask you, you know, who do you want to Positively impact. Right now, I'm not even thinking about your whole life. But like right now, in this season of your life, who will be better? Because you're getting up in the morning, because you're trying, because you're using some skill, gift, or effort, like who? Who is it? Write that down. Second question is how. How do you want to impact the person you just thought about? How? So think about what gifts, skills, resources, tools, experiences do you feel like you need to be leaning into for this season to positively support or impact that person? Right. If you're multi hyphenate again, you can write down all the skills and then circle the ones or star the ones, highlight the ones, one or two that you feel like, yeah, right now, this is what I really need. If I were to use my skill as a writer to write notes to my friends, or if I was to use my gifts as a great listener to hold more space for people in my family, that would help me to be more purposeful, see how that connection is. Those are the first two questions. The third question is, who needs to impact you? And by that I mean I always say you can't be your best self by yourself. And so think about who are the people right now in this season if you're trying to have that desired positive impact, who are the people that you need to hold space for you? The people who you need to make sure, if you were to call, text, email, whatever, they're the ones pouring into you. Those could be people you actually know or even people that you've identified virtually online thought leaders, that their brand of insight is what you need for the time that you're in. If you're going through a heavy grief season, there may be certain podcasts or that you want to listen to or certain friends who've been where you are, who can help walk with you. Be clear about that. Okay, and then the fourth question is about our behavioral change. So it is what actions or behaviors can you shift? Will you choose to shift, you know, to have your desired impact? So I don't say make a full list, but make one. Make, make. Put down one action that you could choose and that may, for some of you, bring up, like, ooh, I need to forgive someone. I'm holding a lot of resentment and that's holding me back from showing up with intention. Or you could identify, gosh, I actually need to get on a meal plan. Because part of what's got me more sluggish from wanting to even execute on the thing I know I'm supposed to do is I just. My blood sugar's all over the place. Right. Well, I need to get out of a relationship like I needed to do 20 years ago. A relationship that I knew was actually just gonna hold me back, wasn't really edifying me. That thing wasn't gonna help me to have the impact I wanted to have in the world. So those are four questions. Who do you want to impact? How do you want to impact them? Who needs to impact you? And what behavior do you need to shift?

[Sheila Marie]

I love that. That right there is free. 99 your welcome. Please use that tool in your toolkit, y' all. Woo. Thank you for this conversation. This reminded us that purpose is not just like a Pinterest board or, you know, a pretty Instagram quote. It's a daily choice, a sacred agreement, a spiritual practice. It asks something of you, but as she reminded us, it gives you something also. I know that everyone is gonna wanna know how to find you, how to work with you. What you have coming up, please let us know.

[Jovian Zane]

Yes. No, I'm gonna tell you, but before I even said that, I just wanted to say thank you. This was such a really beautiful time and you are a gorgeous spirit and I'm grateful. I'm really grateful. So you all can find me jovian [e-mail] Please join my soon to be newsletter as I start. It's coming out soon, where I'm gonna be talking about all kinds of things related to my book, Soft landings for hard days, more about coaching work, all that good stuff. So jovianzane. Com, you can also find me most places online, particularly Instagram at jovianzane. So come on, follow along, baby. Connect with me. Tell me what's up with you, how you. What's good? Yes, all the things.

[Sheila Marie]

Thank you so much, Jovian, for this. This was amazing. I feel, I feel very much more tapped into my purpose and I have some skills that I can continue to get stay curious with myself.

[Jovian Zane]

Thank you.

[Sheila Marie]

Thank you and everyone listening. All my lovely unruly ladies, stay unruly and of course, stay in your purpose girl. Until next time. If you have something on your mind, a question or something you want me to answer, just send in a voice [e-mail] unruly I can't wait to hear from you. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to follow or subscribe so you never, ever, ever, ever miss an episode of Unruly.

[Jovian Zane]

Sam.