← UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
UNRULY WITH SHELAH MARIE
40: Healed Girl, Working Woman: Being Whole in a Hustle Culture ft. Gia Peppers
00:58:43
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- [00:00]
Sheila Marie
The Platinum Card's 5 times Membership Rewards points on flights got us to paradise with special access to unforgettable experiences and late hotel checkouts. Platinum card membership for a trip that's next level. Learn more@americanexpress.com Explore Platinum terms and points cap apply. Welcome to Unruly. I'm your host, Sheila Marie. I'm an author, a fierce advocate for black women, and the founder of the curvy curly conscious movement. In this space, I'm sharing what I've learned on my own journey while sitting down with some amazing women who. Who are all navigating their own paths to healing. Because there's no better time than now to get a little unruly. Welcome back to another episode of Unruly. It's your girl, Sheila Marie. And today's guest is someone who knows what it means to build a dream life and what it costs. Gia Peppers is a journalist, a host, content creator, a wellness advocate who's carved a space for herself in an industry that doesn't always make room for. She's interviewed literal legend. Okay. Legends with a s graced our screens and anchored conversations that amplify black voices in stories with power and heart. But what makes Gia so compelling is what she's building behind the scenes. She calls it her heeled girl era, a chapter marked not by performance but by peace, period. It's the quiet shift from burnout to balance, from grind to grace, from showing up for the work to showing up for herself. This conversation is about what it means to heal without disappearing, to rest without quitting, and how to stay soft in a world that rewards sharp edges. This is healed girl, working woman, period. Welcome to the stage, Gia.
- [01:53]
Gia Peppers
That was the best intro I have ever heard in life.
- [01:59]
Sheila Marie
Wait, say it again for the people in the back.
- [02:02]
Gia Peppers
Now that. That was the best intro I have ever heard in life. I am honored to be here. And I might need that for, like, a POD review. I need, like, that is amazing.
- [02:13]
Sheila Marie
I got you anything you need.
- [02:15]
Gia Peppers
Y' all ate that. Oh, I'm, like, over here trying not to cry. Thank you very much. I'm so honored to be here, Sheila. Like, I've been a fan for a minute. You that girl. Been that girl. So honored.
- [02:26]
Sheila Marie
Because I feel the same. I'm like, wow, she interviews everybody.
- [02:30]
Gia Peppers
You gonna be on my pod. We've already talked. I've talked to your producers, your team.
- [02:33]
Sheila Marie
We're gonna figure it out because we're gonna make it happen.
- [02:35]
Gia Peppers
Yeah. We need this. The synergy is crazy.
- [02:38]
Sheila Marie
Absolutely. So let's start with icebreakers. These are like rapid fire, fast questions. All right, so what is a version of your healed girl era that might surprise people?
- [02:48]
Gia Peppers
Ooh. Well, my healing. My healed girl era definitely started when I got sick of myself. I was, like, disgusted with some of the ways that I was showing up for myself. I just wasn't. At some point, it just got to be me performing to show up. I knew how to click on it. Didn't matter what I was going through that day. You called me to be on set. I'm a show up, show out and compartmentalize. But the pandemic made me realize when I'm not performing, I'm not being my best self, and I'm not even showing up for myself. And so I had an amazingly tough road to this point of life where I'm able to show up for myself when no one's looking, when it has nothing to do with a gig or a camera or a mic. What am I saying about myself to myself? And so that helped. Thank God for therapy. Thank God for prayer.
- [03:51]
Sheila Marie
Thank God for God for all the tools.
- [03:54]
Gia Peppers
Yeah. And just thank God for, like, the end of the. The end of the. The. The chapter where you get so fed up with your own crap. Like, quite literally your own crap. Like, girl, I don't watch this series. Why do I. Why am I restarting it? This is.
- [04:10]
Sheila Marie
I definitely had a sad girl era, and I was sick of it. Like, what the hell? I do not want to be sad girl. Like, what is this?
- [04:17]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [04:18]
Sheila Marie
So I. I see. I. I definitely relate to that. What song currently represents your vibe right now?
- [04:23]
Gia Peppers
Ooh. Okay. So. So. So I've been listening to a lot of gospel. I'm full on. In my auntie era. I have. I have owned it. I'm gonna be in the church with. With the tambourine. I'm gonna be up in the. Okay, call me. I'm gonna be there when you want me to sit. I can't sit with the elders yet, but I'll sit a couple rows behind them because I just. I have. I think especially in these last couple of years, but especially since this current administration has been very loud. You have to, like, really arm yourself. And how I arm myself is within my faith. That leads to peace, that leads to meditation, and all those things. So I've been listening to a lot of gospel and Tasha Cobbs Leonard song. You know, my name is just one of my favorite places to just. Her music takes you to a different place. But, like, when I hear it, it just reminds me that God Knows my story, my name. He knows that at the end of the day, no matter what happens, I am in the palm of his hand. And so she has this, these lyrics that says, no fire can stop me. No, no battle can turn me. I'm walking in victory because I am his all. And when things happen and life changes, I go there and just sit there with that fact. And then the voice, the vocals, always gonna make you cry a little bit, child. Right? Yeah.
- [05:55]
Sheila Marie
You know, I love that. It's funny because my husband's a musician and he's always asking me, I said, don't ask me for my opinion on any music because literally my default is always towards songs that I feel like have a mantra or have something simple that I can latch onto that repeats. I feel like that's a very ancient practice, like practice across so many cultures. But there's this song he plays on Sundays and it just says I belong here. And it's just that over and over and it just. I literally will cry. I won't be sad, I'll just be doing something. But just hearing it, that affirmation is so important. So I love that you said that. Just sometimes when you don't have those words, it's nice to be reminded. It almost feels like something covering you, you know?
- [06:40]
Gia Peppers
Yeah. And I come from a long line of women who pray. And so I think as I'm owning again, shifting into showing up in my life for me without any judgment from anybody other. Like any other person, the Internet don't matter. How am I doing. For me, I have really allowed myself to be. To walk in the fact that I was prayed for. Like to walk in the fact that like I have absolutely been the result of a dream. And we are our ancestors wildest dreams. Like that is not a cliche. That is the absolute truth. And even in this time where there is so much noise and division, we are still our ancestors wildest dream. And I think we're also being challenged to, you know, learn from them, really study, sit at the feet of folks, you know, that are 80, 90 years old. I have a 80, 80, how old? She just turned 84, I think she no 82 year old aunt. And I just love talking to her now I'm just like Aunt Dorothy girl. What had happened? What do we do? Like, this is crazy.
- [07:50]
Sheila Marie
I love hearing stories.
- [07:51]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [07:52]
Sheila Marie
But it's beautiful that you referenced women who prayed for you and that your healing is a part of a community like endeavor. And I love for us to be reminded of that. Cause sometimes we feel that we're very big on taking accountability. We're very big at looking at our individual acts and our own self limiting beliefs. But it's nice to be reminded that some of our healing happens in community with other people. When you're praying for someone, when someone is praying for you, when you, like you said, are now gonna be that auntie with the tambourine, like, you know, at some point in your life, you are gonna be the woman praying for other people. And I just think that is honestly just gave me chills talking about it. Cause that's actually one of my things that I'm looking forward to the most is I definitely wanna be like you said that auntie, like come talk to me.
- [08:40]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [08:40]
Sheila Marie
I. I'm not going to judge you. I want to protect you as much as I can. But you know, I want to be that. That safe space that a lot of women did not have. So I love that. I have a question. Are you healed or are you healing?
- [08:53]
Gia Peppers
Healing. Healing. And the reason why I called it Healed Girl era was of course because everybody was very much in their eras on TikTok for a while. Oh yeah, period, Soft girl, Arab and made, you know, you know, rich girl era, rich aunt, whatever. And when I saw people using Healed Girl era, I loved that because I believe that that's an affirmation to the fact that we can get through these tough moments in life and we can heal through it moment by moment. And it might revisit, it might come up. Because child, there will be times where you realize that you actually can't heal in isolation, like you were saying, because you have to be reminded of the triggers. If you're not being triggered and you're not choosing differently, you still have some progress to do. But if you are choosing different differently, you are doing well in your progress. So I think for me, Healed Girl error is an affirmation that healing is possible and that though we may never, you know, hear, you know, for me, I might never hear my godmother's name and you know, not have a little bit of a heartbreak. She passed away in 2018. I will.
- [10:11]
Sheila Marie
Sorry.
- [10:11]
Gia Peppers
Yeah, that was my girl. Thank you. I will always be happy because she loved me and I get to carry that love. And I knew her for over 25 years of my life. And so, you know, I. But that took time. For the first couple years, it was lights out. I'm crying every time I gotta go to my room. So I think, you know, the affirmation is like, I'm in my healed Girl Era. I don't do those things. I react differently. I figure it out. I take time to honor my feelings, even if they are hard. And I am still healing. But I'm in my Healed Girl era because I just want different for myself.
- [10:53]
Sheila Marie
Speaking of Healed Girl, Healed Girl era. That's the name of your podcast?
- [10:57]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [10:57]
Sheila Marie
Congratulations. It's excellent, you guys. Excellent. If you want more insight on your own healing journey, you just want to hear some positive talk about black woman and what it means and all of the things. Definitely. Check it out.
- [11:09]
Gia Peppers
Thank you.
- [11:10]
Sheila Marie
So what you spoke about being sick of yourself, and I'm sure that that moment also was somehow birthed Healed Girl era as well.
- [11:18]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [11:18]
Sheila Marie
What? Was there a particular moment? Was there some one thing that happened that was like, all right, Gia, like we not doing this.
- [11:24]
Gia Peppers
Yeah, girl, how much time you got? I will say, because I would say my Godmother's passing was 2018. I was probably limping through life that whole, those whole two years trying my best to just show up. And then on top of that, in my personal life, I was in deep pain. And then in my career, professionally, I just felt like I was always meeting the moment of almost getting there. But the game changing contract that I signed with a major streamer would get pulled after the, you know, pilot test didn't go through, or the, the. The moment where someone wanted to finally sign you as an agent, they forget about you. And it's just like all. Every little thing was starting to just get to me to the point where before the world shut down in 2020, I remember specifically I was in my Brooklyn apartment and I was praying Psalms 23, you know, the Lord is my shepherd, I lack nothing. You know, we may walk through the valley of the shadow of death, but fear no evil, for thou art with me. And I remember. And that was the. That, you know, that's the gist. I skipped several verses, but that do not judge because I was like, that's a lot. I don't remember it right. How much time you got? But. But I think that after praying it and pacing so back and forth so long, I remember being like, wait, nah, God, come see me. Because we got square up. Because I did everything right. I didn't go to the $2 Tuesdays on campus. I went to my internship. I tried my hardest. I did everything. And no, I wasn't perfect, Lord, but I did a lot that you asked for me. And I remember being like, why, why in the world am I not able to get to this level? And it's Been honestly Sheila, probably a grieving process of the life I thought God said yes to.
- [13:33]
Sheila Marie
Ooh, wait, wait, what does that mean?
- [13:37]
Gia Peppers
So I remember growing up and being like the girl that was always a ham on camera. So right. So hosting when my, my dad was a really big time, you know, videographer with the big old cameras and we have VHS tapes. I remember those. And Easter Sunday, if we outside, I'm hosting, hey, we're here at Easter. Watch out world, we're coming. Like, I just knew that I was going to be on tv. I knew that I was going to have E. News calling me for a show and I was going to work.
- [14:09]
Sheila Marie
With you knew that at a young.
- [14:10]
Gia Peppers
Age I wanted, that's what I wanted. I didn't know what the name of it was, but I knew I wanted to host because my mom and I used to stay up and watch Arsenio hall to the point where, like my first words were woo, woo, woo. Like some of my first words. It wasn't Mommy and Daddy. That is so cute. That's crazy. So I knew that's where I always felt like I could do something. That's where I knew I could shine. But I always had dreams of all types of stage things. So I remember being like, you know, okay, I, I, this is, this must be what God said yes to because it's just so real, like it's so present. And then when it just didn't happen for me, I rem, I just remember being angry subconsciously, like, not consciously, right. Subconsciously angry that it just wasn't happening for me. That, you know, I'm praying, Lord, I thought, this is the journey. All these things have happened. Like, okay, why didn't it happen? And I was at accelerate her this past month, which was the big conference in Miami by Kim Blackwell. And the most amazing thing she did was she brought executive coaches who are actually like therapists and healers. And so there were several times where I signed up to be drug red for filth. I'm crying. And Dr. Naima, she's one of the psychologists, psychiatrists who was there. And she just sat down and looked at me in a way with such love in her eyes. And she was just like, do you know that before you came to heaven, you agreed with God to do whatever he has asked you to do. Like you chose this. So your job is to sit with God, to look at yourself, to say thank you for the journey on the way here, thank you for getting me here, and there's something new for me that I must try and you're not wrong and you didn't do anything crazy and everything was working for you. But you have to let go of this one tiny version when you serve a big limitless God and you're not able to see what God has done in the, in, in the midst of all that because you're so focused on this one thing that's such a tough.
- [16:24]
Sheila Marie
Lesson to learn, right?
- [16:26]
Gia Peppers
And then one of my other friends who's started, you know, reading me as well, but she's a therapist named do doctor, she's Ashante. And she was just like, yeah, you're grasp, you're grasping so hard to one dream that is breaking your heart when if you just open your hands, you can receive so much more. The abundance that's coming for you is so big. You just are so, so real. You're in this space of just holding tight to something when God has more for you if you just let go. So I was like, okay, these past couple of weeks, my work has been putting down what I think is for me and surrendering and saying yes and learning what God has for me now. And so that looks like I have no idea what the next five years hold. I don't know what anything holds. I know that God holds tomorrow. And that means that I need to show up for Healed Girl era. That means I need to show up in my life. That means I need to go to the gym. That means I need to answer emails on time. Like, it just means I. I'm showing up in a way that I might not understand the full plan, but I understand that God is asking me to say yes to what's on my table right now and to do better at what I'm stewarding now.
- [17:44]
Sheila Marie
And so surrender, surrender, surrender. I relate to your story so much, and I feel like I'm in a very similar position with being a mom since I've.
- [17:55]
Gia Peppers
I've been, I think, happy belated Mother's Day.
- [17:57]
Sheila Marie
Oh, period. Me and my bonus daughter going to eat after this period. But yeah, I. So I've been trying to conceive since 2021, and I haven't. I haven't had my own children yet. And I'm gonna be honest with you. I fell low with God for. For a while. I was beefing with God. I was like, first of all, just like you, I did everything I'm supposed to do, right? I'm married, okay. I went to college. Look at me like I'm all in my divine feminine. I'm eating the healthy and da, da, da, And I'm just like. I was like, so I don't get what I want. What is this? You know, and not to dismiss it because it's a very real grief. There's very real pain. Da da da. But honestly, on the other side of surrender is when I finally started to live again.
- [18:38]
Gia Peppers
Come on.
- [18:39]
Sheila Marie
For a while it just held me hostage. It was all I could think about. Everybody was getting pregnant around me, da da da. And now I look at it and I'm like, who knows what I was saved from? At the time that I first got pregnant, I was filming love and hip hop. That would have been a nightmare. So who knows? Who knows? So I love the idea of surrender. And that's exactly what you're describing is I don't know where I'm going at the end. I have no idea. I don't have a gps. But I do know what my next best step is. And sometimes that's all you need to be worried about.
- [19:09]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [19:09]
Sheila Marie
So speaking of rejection, because you talked, you talk a little bit about that in what you were just sharing. And you are in an industry, not only are you public facing, which is one layer of rejection because everybody is going to have opinions and sometimes they're not going to agree with you and then that invites potential for rejection. But you're in the industry.
- [19:28]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [19:29]
Sheila Marie
And as you said, contracts could be right there to getting signed and you could have your whole hopes up and then that the whole project can get canceled. Oh, we decided not to do it. Oh, the budget. Da da da. So there's all these ways in which you have to deal with constant rejection. Yeah. I have two question for you. One, how do you deal with that? How do you deal with rejection in a way where it doesn't attack your own sense of self? And then two, what do you do when rejection comes?
- [19:56]
Gia Peppers
This is so great because this is active work for me. Rejection, I have learned, is always.
- [20:07]
Sheila Marie
Tough.
- [20:08]
Gia Peppers
For a person whose brand is them. Right. Like, right. It'll be different if like we had. That's a good point.
- [20:15]
Sheila Marie
You know, you start to feel like it's me. You don't like.
- [20:18]
Gia Peppers
Like, girl, you said you liked me. Like, why you texting me? I thought it was friends, but you're not gonna hire me. Like, what's good? Like, I had to learn very quickly that the people who love me deeply and dearly are the folks that have known me forever and do not care what I do. And new friends can always be made. But if they're in the industry, I just have to Be mindful of what's transactionary, like, what's actually based in transaction, what I can do for you and what you can do for me and how we can work together, which is also fine. But, like, I can't put my heart there. And so I have learned to take my heart and bring it into myself in a way that is just smart. Smart for me. The type of person I am is. I am very sensitive. So, like, I have to. I overthink so much and like, you know, it's a relationship based industry. So I'm like, oh, my God, did I say the wrong thing to that girl? And did she. Oh, my God, that girl said I'm not relatable. Like, what? Like all this stuff. Like, I be thinking all these things. And then I'm like, all right, if I spiral too much, I will just go to my notebook and write down, like, everything I'm thinking. The lies, the spiral thoughts, and then literally split this page in half and do the truth. And usually I can find my piece back when I'm able to just look at the page and be like, wait, but that's not true. This isn't a fact. I don't know that I offended her. She might not even care. Like, I might be taking that too personally. Or that girl, she might have meant everything. But what does that mean for me? Is this constructive criticism or is this just something that she said? As a matter of fact, that really doesn't matter to me. And so rejection has been. Has crippled me for so long, Sheila, that like, I. I am learning to actively just be like, well, Lord, if I'm surrendering, if I say I have faith, if I say I trust that you have me fully, then this is just what it is. It hurts. It stings. But I think you build the muscle over time to say that hurt. And also, God is good. And also, the last time I was rejected, something else came that was great. And also this person is saying no to this thing now. That doesn't mean that it will never happen again. So don't burn the bridge. Don't. Don't try to drag it.
- [22:47]
Sheila Marie
Oh, my gosh. That's what I used to do. Aries. Just burn it all down and then.
- [22:50]
Gia Peppers
Like, burn it all down.
- [22:50]
Sheila Marie
Why did I do that? Because.
- [22:53]
Gia Peppers
Cause you never know. They might be like, it might be. First of all, you know this. It takes so many people in one room for one yes to happen. So you might be on somebody's head who was fighting their hardest when it was the other six that were like, nah. And now this person has gone on to produce something, and they were like, oh, I would like to work with her. But I remember that time she dragged me for Phil, and I actually loved her. So I just learned to say, that's not my opportunity. What's for me will never miss me. Um, and at the end of the day, what's mine, no one else will be able to take away because it's. It's been mine from the beginning. It'll be mine at the end. It's just what it is.
- [23:34]
Sheila Marie
What is for you is for you.
- [23:36]
Gia Peppers
And it's the being knocked down by no so many times to the point where you have for me. I'm not gonna speak for anybody else. I will. I would allow myself to hide from the world. I would walk under the banner of no from man when God told me yes. And when I say I will walk under the banner of no from man when God told me yes. And if I say I believe in God and he is the most important thing in my life, who am I to prioritize man's opinion of me when first of all, man, we fickle, we nasty, we care one day, we don't care the next. I can't look on our timelines every day, like, the evidence is there. Who am I to care more about what man said than what God said? And so it's, like, active every day. Like, okay, I'm going to pitch myself for this thing. It might be a no, it might be a yes, but at least I did it.
- [24:39]
Sheila Marie
But it's like a muscle, right? The more you do it, the better you get at it.
- [24:42]
Gia Peppers
Yep, it's a muscle like you all. Again. I finally got to the point where I was so sick of. Sick of not living, sick of being, like, in my room, watching tv, realizing that, like, life is, like, quite literally staying in the bed when the sun rose and then the sun set, like, talking full on. I'm good. No, I'm good. And I told my therapist I was like, sometimes I don't recognize the version of me that's, like, in those pictures and on stage. Because sometimes she just feels so far away. Interesting. And my big thing was I don't want my life to feel like I performed really well but didn't value my days where there was nothing to do. Nothing to do. And so now I've learned the importance of having routine, the importance of waking up and giving yourself a chance to be like, yeah, nothing's happening today that I'm being paid for. And yet this Day is also priceless. What can I do today to make it amazing?
- [25:46]
Sheila Marie
Be useless to capitalism. Capitalism as much as you can.
- [25:50]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [25:51]
Sheila Marie
That's how you know you're still human.
- [25:52]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [25:53]
Sheila Marie
I have a question. So you speak a lot about therapy as like a real tool for your healing and medication? Actually, yes.
- [26:00]
Gia Peppers
I've never tried medication, but I've all I've done therapy, medication.
- [26:04]
Sheila Marie
Oh, okay. Sorry. Right. I read that wrong.
- [26:05]
Gia Peppers
No, you're fine. I've learned from with healed girl era, I've learned that women are taking medication and I haven't tried it myself, but I just thought it was important that people share that medication is a tool to destigmatize.
- [26:19]
Sheila Marie
Correct.
- [26:20]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [26:20]
Sheila Marie
I was on Lexapro for a while, but I'm off of it now. But boy did it help me when I needed it the most. Child, I've heard I was definitely one of the ones who thought I was too good for it. And then life was like, haha. And then I was like, wait a minute, this is a tool. Like everything else. It was very, very helpful.
- [26:37]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [26:38]
Sheila Marie
Okay. Okay. So a lot of your content is very polished. Like we see when we see Gia, we see her show up as a very professional working woman.
- [26:47]
Gia Peppers
Right.
- [26:48]
Sheila Marie
And so help us. What does healing look like for you? And you might have already answered this. What does it look like for you when no one's watching? When there's no glam, there's no mic, it's just you. It's just you and God.
- [26:59]
Gia Peppers
Yeah. It looks like journaling. It looks like no wig on. It looks like. It looks like walks. It looks like working, working on keeping my like mind decluttered. So listening to music. It looks like breathing on days that are very hard. And then it also looks like not knowing sometimes, like sometimes I'm like, I don't know what I feel. And I'm working to find the language for that and I think it's okay to not know. It also looks like calling myself out, like one of the biggest things that I have trouble with, Sheila, is not showing up full on makeup, glam mic, all that because growing up I am the oldest girl in my. I'm the oldest child in my family. Oh man.
- [27:55]
Sheila Marie
You're the eldest daughter. Woo.
- [27:58]
Gia Peppers
And so you're taught.
- [27:59]
Sheila Marie
Happy belated Mother's Day.
- [28:01]
Gia Peppers
Lol. You're taught that these kids are looking at you, they're your responsibility. And so I early on learned the role model role. And so I am learning now how to not over edit myself. And it's just a test by test thing, I've deleted more videos than I've posted. And I've. I'm learning. Like, I'm just like, okay, G. Like, that's. I've got. I got sick of my days looking like all I valued in life was Netflix. I got sick of my days looking like, you know, being in the bed all day, I work out now. I take, you know, I take better care of myself. I eat better, I cook. Like, not every day. I'll still be on doordash a little too much, but, you know, it's better than it was, child. It's progress. And then, like, I'm learning, like, this is the next frontier for me. So what does that look like? And so maybe in a couple weeks, you'll see a video that I, that I edited a month ago that I can finally put out. But I'm okay with the fact that, like, that is something that's work for me. Like, not showing up polished and perfect. That is, that is what I've learned. It's perfection. Perfectionism is absolutely a trauma response. And also, I believe in putting your best foot forward. So for me, finding the balance of that might be, you know, I might not put on the full beat, but I'm gonna have my wig on. I just can't. I, I, I get to choose how that looks for me. And so now I'm kind of just testing out where, where, what I feel most comfortable with. Where do I shine? And then also, sometimes I don't need to say. Some people talk about everything, and I don't. That's not my ministry. So also, moving in the space where I feel the most called to move, like, asking. That's major questions of what I really wanna say. Because I don't need to say everything.
- [30:04]
Sheila Marie
A lot of us, right, can get caught up in trends or get caught up in doing what everyone else is doing. I have definitely been guilty of that. And then you're like, wait, why am I here? I feel it's like wearing clothes that are not yours. Like, it looks a little bit weird on you. Like, Teyana Taylor could pull off any outfit. But I, I tried to wear the same outfit. And not for the way it looks on me. It's just because she owns it with her. She owns it mentally or psychically. Like, you could just feel that she feels like, I know I'm. That, you know what I'm saying? And I feel that me, I might be like, does it, does it look good? And it's like, so important to just stay in your lane. I think that's one lesson that is so important as we become so hyper visible, we're watching people all of the time. How do you stay, how do you stay tapped in, though, Gia? You're, you're always around a lot of highly successful people where it might be a lot of pressure for you to be like, oh, I need to do what they're doing. So how do you not fall into that temptation?
- [30:59]
Gia Peppers
Yeah, I, I think what's amazing about my career is, I mean, I really worked for everything I have. I don't, I don't ever want to forget that I was the girl that got coffee for people at 7am I'll never forget that I was the girl that cleaned the stud before the people got there. When I was interning, I was the girl that was taking the, you know, the 6am bus to get into the city by 7am when I was in college for the interning for the Wendy Williams show in its first season. Like, I worked really hard to get here. And so I have a different experience from a lot of the women that I'm around who are Fortune 500, you know, executives, business owners, magazine publishers, all these different things. And also, I have worked way too hard to ever dismiss my own journey as well. And so how I look at that now is, though I may not have the, you know, the titles or the expertise that they do have in certain areas, I do have value. I do have expertise. I do have things to offer the world. And so when I'm with them, I ask questions, I'm studying them. I'm like, girl, what. How did you, you opened. Okay, I'm a call you. And you said it cost. Okay, okay. Like, I, I learn now. Now I'm a sponge now. I'm like, okay, you know, I remember, you know, I went to leading women to find and accelerate her. And I, in the middle, I was like, lord, why do you keep putting me in these places? Like, I've been a part of Woman Evolve. And watching the Sarah Jakes Roberts Take her conference that went from 2,403, 3,000 people the year that I did it in like 2021 to the next time in 2023, being 30,000 people to watch, that was crazy. I, I, I, I did. I'm like, lord, what, what am I? Why am I being exposed to all this greatness? What do you want out of me? And that's why I can't give up on one version of a dream. I can't give up on myself or my dreams just because one version of it didn't work out. God is actively putting me in place to learn from people who are New York Times bestseller, brilliant speakers, brilliant business owners, women who are owners of basketball teams, like, but women who have had major impact on people. And so the more I get out of my way, the more that I trust that they'll be. Baby steps matter as much as the big stages. The more that I step into my own greatness. And so now I'm. My job is also to stop circling the drain of greatness and finally just allow myself to fall in.
- [33:59]
Sheila Marie
That's a great analogy, girl. I just been like, yeah, I can relate it visually. I say, yeah, that makes sense.
- [34:05]
Gia Peppers
Right?
- [34:05]
Sheila Marie
Did I hear you correctly in saying you interned at the Wendy Williams show?
- [34:09]
Gia Peppers
Sure did.
- [34:09]
Sheila Marie
That's interesting. Several times in this interview, you have either answered a question that I was gonna ask next or prompted it. I was like, wow, this is, like, so perfect. Couldn't even have wrote this better. I have a question. Because you're a journalist, but you're also in the entertainment industry, so there is an expectation that the things you put out are entertaining.
- [34:29]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [34:30]
Sheila Marie
I saw a TikTok the other day, and this lady was like, bring back Wendy Williams. Please bring back Wendy Williams. Because she was mentioning another show. I'm not gonna drag nobody under the bus, so I'm not gonna say another show. But they were, like, saying they're boring. They don't know how to ask good questions.
- [34:44]
Gia Peppers
Oh, I know who you're talking about.
- [34:45]
Sheila Marie
Yeah, See, I'm just gonna leave it there, but. Cause I love her down.
- [34:48]
Gia Peppers
Love her down.
- [34:49]
Sheila Marie
I love her down. And so they were just saying that the interviews are boring, but it was kind of that. And she said the problem with a lot of journalists or people that are interviewing hosts right now is that y' all wanna be friends and buddy. Buddy with the person that you're interviewing. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, shots fired. She's talking to me.
- [35:07]
Gia Peppers
Right? Right. What?
- [35:08]
Sheila Marie
And so how do you balance, like. But I. But your interviews perform well, and they're not boring.
- [35:13]
Gia Peppers
Thank you. I. Okay, so when. Interning at the Wendy Williams show was a very wild experience because it was watching Wendy evolve from radio, who we all know, Wendy got to it. There are iconic interview drag moments with Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, even Beyonce got her together. Like, there's been many times where Wendy on radio has shifted the narrative. I mean, everything that's happening with Diddy, I would love to see Wendy Williams. Oh, my.
- [35:48]
Sheila Marie
This. Can you imagine how different the conversations would be if we had Wendy Williams right now. And honestly, the world owes her an apology, bro.
- [35:56]
Gia Peppers
A big time apology major. And the systems in place in the entertainment industry allowed that type of behavior. She got rushed, she got pushed out of New York radio because of Diddy at that time. So it was just. Anyway, I say all that to say she was going from shop jock Wendy to daytime TV Wendy. And so to watch her navigate the realities that now she has this big time production company behind her. She has to be. She's not Oprah, but she's Wendy. She has to find her balance of making you feel like you're at her kitchen island with a. With. And then bringing you the. The.
- [36:38]
Sheila Marie
And then getting the tea.
- [36:40]
Gia Peppers
Getting the tea at the same time and giving you the feeling of you are comfortable here. And so it was interesting because that first season, a lot of people turned down the Wendy Williams show. Cause they did not want to sit on her couch. They didn't know what she would do to them. Being on radio is one thing. Being on tv, daytime, you're in syndicated markets, your grandma might see this and she might be like, so that sex tape. Like. I think a lot of celebrities had to learn how to see Wendy differently. So she had to learn how to not ask certain questions that first season. Now, seasons later, she would ask all the questions. But that first season, she had to learn how to become a daytime talk show host. So how I look at that is I'm not Wendy Williams. And I was given a personality that's funny and silly, and I care about people. And while I might not be best friends with every single person I interview, a lot of the people that I get to interview are women that I've seen over the past decade and a half of my work on red carpets, at events, behind, you know each other at premieres. And just in the same way that you're nice to your colleagues, hopefully I'm nice to my colleagues. And I might not be, again, the person they call at the end of the night if they're, you know, trying to turn up. But I feel great knowing that when they come to a set that I created, they know that I'm not here to attack them, That I understand that they're a human first and that at the end of the day, we can have tough conversations and we can talk about things that might have been uncomfortable for you. Um, and you can be a human because at the end of the day, you're a human. I'm a human. I would never try to belittle your own experience, I would never try to tell you that you are a headline more than you are a human being with feelings, with judgments of themselves, with your own inner critic. Like, I don't think we give people who are public facing enough grace because we live in a headline comment go viral world where we're trying to shame people out of their position if they get too big for who we think they can be. And mind you, that's different from the patterns and the mistakes and the harmful people. Very different. But what I've noticed with a lot, a lot of folks is that like, they go through this unnecessary dragging sometimes when they're just trying to be human.
- [39:02]
Sheila Marie
So, you know, I ask you because I'm like, I'm thinking in my own progression too. It is a tricky slope because I don't. Or slippery slope, I should say. But I don't, I don't necessarily love the witch hunt vibe that goes on there where, you know, if somebody does something and it's. I don't necessarily love that. I don't feel like that's. There's a lot of grace in there or whatever. But I do love the way that you still get the job done, you still ask the questions. But I think it's like you said, it almost reminds me of like, maybe like a compliment sandwich. Like, you know, you, you make them safe, you let them know, like, you're not a headline, you're more than a headline. I consider you a person. I have a baseline level of respect for you, and then I'm going to ask some touchy questions and then I'm going to go back and like soften it up. So, like, that's a good way of disarming people. And I think a lot of people listening are not hosts, but that is a life skill that you can use in any, any capacity.
- [39:53]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [39:54]
Sheila Marie
So you've said that peace is your metric for success. I'm curious on how do you balance peace with the pace? Industry is all, I mean, golly, it is a fake emergency. At the fake emergency. There's a constant. It's just the fake urgency. There's always one thing after another. And like you said, there's always new opportunities. You can feel like this chasing hamster on a wheel. So how do you bal that high, like that fast pace of the industry with protecting your peace?
- [40:26]
Gia Peppers
I've learned now to understand that my life and my ability to encounter and inhabit and create peace looks different for every every single day. So, you know, if I get called to do something that's across the country. That means like, I have to travel, I have to pack, I have to do all this stuff. So the piece on Monday might be I get to sleep in because Tuesday I know that I'm gonna be traveling. And then Wednesday I'm gonna be shooting and Thursday and da, da. And then Friday I get peace again because I'm gonna rest. So now it's literally like a puzzle piece where I understand why women, especially mothers, say there is no such thing as balance. It's harmony. It's choosing what to prioritize in the moment. It's understanding that, that different things are gonna call different parts of your brain and all those different things and you're gonna have to be present with yourself at every single moment. And so for me, I allow that to now be okay. These days I get full on morning routine. I get sweats, I get workout, I get no wig, I get no makeup. On this day I have to show up and show out. What do I need for that? Okay, I need to make sure that no matter what, I'm up three hours earlier because I need my 20 to 30 minutes of prayer and chilling and being able to ground myself that, you know, if I'm really, really having a great day, that means I get extra time to luxuriate and take my time instead of rushing in the shower. Like it's, you know, then, then you, then you have to set yourself up to know that you're going to encounter a lot of energies that day. So you got to make sure you gonna be good with yourself. What do you need? If I need to journal, I need to do that. And so it has become a day to day, week to week. What's on my schedule? Where can I make sure that I'm waking up on time and getting rest, but also realizing that this is my work and so this, how can I create a space for my work to thrive internally and then externally? And I think before it was all about the external, it was all about all that stuff and pace is real. So now I'm like being more consistent with my podcast. It definitely was giving like once every other week, child, whenever I felt like putting it out. And I don't want that for my audience that's out there. Like, that's crazy. And then like also, you know what, as this has been probably like one of the most still and I've been calling it dry when it comes to finances, when it comes to like the bookings that I'm used to having. But I, a lot of people have been Saying, that child is giving, but also it's dry. It's dry.
- [43:12]
Sheila Marie
Right?
- [43:12]
Gia Peppers
But also I'm good and I have more time for the things I care about. And so I trust again, that's that surrender. Like, I'm trusting that it's gonna come in whatever way it should. I'm trusting that God is a provider and I'm trusting that, like, now, yeah, now is the time to send out some emails. Now's the time to check back in. Now's the time to do those informationals. Now is the time to show up. But I don't. I'm not in the space. I don't have FOMO anymore. Like, now I'm like, okay, if I'm there, I'm a show up and show out. I'm a serve these women. If I'm hosting, I'm going to do what I got to do. And hopefully I have some really great, really beautiful catch ups with women that I care about and maybe I create some new connections there. But I've just learned to not see everything as a transaction. Because when you are raised up in the industry, everybody's like, it's. It's a dog eat Dog World 100. And now I'm just like, yeah, okay, all right.
- [44:11]
Sheila Marie
It sounds like you have a lot of trust.
- [44:13]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [44:13]
Sheila Marie
Trust in yourself, trust in God that. Trust that. All right, I can make this connection if it feels right. Who knows when it will come back to me, but I know it will.
- [44:20]
Gia Peppers
Yeah. Or.
- [44:21]
Sheila Marie
Or it'll pay it forward or whatever.
- [44:23]
Gia Peppers
Or it might not. Or it might not. Or it was just a girl. I like your dress. I like your dress too.
- [44:27]
Sheila Marie
That's it. Period.
- [44:28]
Gia Peppers
And that just might be it. And so again, Sheila, this is all stuff in real time that I'm like, actively creating that space for myself because I've been through a lot of heartbreak in this industry. This is a heartbreaking industry. This is a. I understand why Beyonce don't do interviews. I understand.
- [44:48]
Sheila Marie
Oh, I love that for her.
- [44:50]
Gia Peppers
Like, I understand why she didn't show us roomy. And sir, like, I underst you. You put yourself out there, you share what matters to you, and people drag you for filth. And then you have to be like, okay, I'm quitting. This is dumb. This is da, da, da, da. And then God will bring you an opportunity that reminds you just why you did it in the first place, and it'll bring you back. And now you're different, you're smarter. You understand? Okay, this is mine. This is sacred to me. But the Only way you know what's sacred and what's not, what boundaries are and what's not is to actually be burned by sharing things and people.
- [45:32]
Sheila Marie
That's a really good point.
- [45:33]
Gia Peppers
Like, you can't know unless, you know, like, girl, I'm in my first relationship in 400 years, and I.
- [45:43]
Sheila Marie
Come on.
- [45:43]
Gia Peppers
400 years? Okay. 400 years, I'm finally in a relationship. And, like, I was like, wow. Part of it's me.
- [45:54]
Sheila Marie
I definitely had that realization. I'm like, is it me? And by the way, drama. No, it can't be.
- [45:59]
Gia Peppers
That is a little bit than drama. Like, I was like, oh, a little bit. Oh, okay. So I gotta learn how to talk to people. Okay. So I gotta. I gotta. I can't. Okay. You got to.
- [46:11]
Sheila Marie
I think it's a part of spiritual maturity.
- [46:13]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [46:13]
Sheila Marie
I think for a lot of my life, I was like a spiritually. Like a teenager.
- [46:17]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [46:17]
Sheila Marie
You know, like, lashing out. And then. And then everybody.
- [46:21]
Gia Peppers
But they. But they.
- [46:22]
Sheila Marie
But they. But then they said. But then they said. But then they said. And it's like, now that I'm older, I can see, like, oh, I have. Like. I'm glad that I can have more grace with myself. Because you need it. If you're gonna be. If you're gonna take accountability, you gotta have grace.
- [46:33]
Gia Peppers
Yep.
- [46:33]
Sheila Marie
Otherwise, it's just so criticism.
- [46:35]
Gia Peppers
Yeah.
- [46:35]
Sheila Marie
And it's. It's like, all right, well, Gia, maybe that was. Maybe. Maybe you shouldn't have went off on dog at one time. Like, all right, you know, yeah, I'll do better next time.
- [46:44]
Gia Peppers
I'll do better next time. And shout out to the, you know, partners. And especially I love watching your relationship from afar. Y' all seem to have so much grace and love for each other. Y' all seem to be each other's best friends. Like, I feel like you. You. You and him know. Know each other so well that, like, you can do amazing things in that way. But I also feel like y' all hold each other accountable, and it's beautiful to watch. And so as I'm experiencing.
- [47:16]
Sheila Marie
Thank you. Of course.
- [47:18]
Gia Peppers
As I'm experiencing my first, like, grown love. Because my. My last loves were definitely, you know, younger, in my 20s and in high school and college and all those things. I am so grateful for the grace and the patience my partner has with me. My. My. My boyfriend has with me. I'm like, yes, Ashley Bly. Bad. I didn't know. Like, he's like.
- [47:40]
Sheila Marie
I think sometimes he has more patience with me than I can find for myself. And I really like that. Cause I'm always reminded, right? To me, I think one of the qualities in a man, I would say that is like non negotiable is a patient man.
- [47:54]
Gia Peppers
Yeah, yeah. Cause we can be a lot.
- [47:58]
Sheila Marie
And I feel like I need to see it all the time. I don't know about you, but I don't necessarily have a lot of patience in life. And so I need to be reminded like, oh, I'm not gonna die right now. Okay, I can calm down.
- [48:09]
Gia Peppers
Oh, my God.
- [48:11]
Sheila Marie
Okay.
- [48:13]
Gia Peppers
Even just like his patience with me and like, I'm a go getter. Independent girly.
- [48:20]
Sheila Marie
That's true.
- [48:20]
Gia Peppers
All the women independent. Throw your hands up at me. I was always throwing my hands up at me. Like. Like that's just what it gave.
- [48:26]
Sheila Marie
You definitely are.
- [48:27]
Gia Peppers
And I was like, oh, no, I don't wanna be an independent woman. Like, it's actually not that fun. And I value community, but even more, I value a romantic partner. And like, experiencing how he loves me and has loved me so beautifully has allowed me to really, really, just like, my nervous system is reset.
- [48:59]
Sheila Marie
We'd love to see it.
- [49:00]
Gia Peppers
I don't have the same hustle, go get it mentality. And you know, I don't know if this is the partner of my life. We're still learning each other. We're still very much six, seven months in. And I'm getting to know a lot about what I need and what he needs. But, man, am I grateful for this man who is like. And yeah, yeah, I didn't like what you said the other night. And it's not the end of the world and it's not the end of our relationship. Right.
- [49:25]
Sheila Marie
You can repair Esther Perel, she talks about relationships all the time. I love her monogamy. She studies long term partnership. And she says a lot of times it's the repair. Like if her metric for a healthy couple is how they can repair. I love that. And even what you articulated with your partnership right now is like, you don't know the GPS destination yet, but you just know what next best step to take. And that is so important. Yeah. Okay, so now we're at the toolkit part of the interview. And so I'm gonna say this, Gia, usually I just ask guests. Cause we have an unruly toolbox. And what do you want to put in there? But I wonder. You let me know. Unless you have another suggest if you want to put that exercise that you mentioned earlier about you were like making on a journal and what's real? And can you just break that down a little bit for us.
- [50:15]
Gia Peppers
Yeah, Perfect. So my toolbox entry in the unruly toolbox is the journaling exercise of the lies versus the truth. I am an overthinker and a reformed spiraler and retired.
- [50:32]
Sheila Marie
Crash out. You know what I'm saying?
- [50:34]
Gia Peppers
We're just.
- [50:36]
Sheila Marie
Okay.
- [50:38]
Gia Peppers
And my. One of the saving graces is in this exercise, I allow myself to be present with every little feeling that comes up. And so I break down the page and split it in half. I put one size as the lies and one size as the truth. You can put that as one side of spirals and one side of groundedness, like, whatever you want to call it. But for me, sometimes it's the. The. The amount of thoughts that are coming that I just have to get out on the page. And I've been journaling since I was a teenager than Moesha, so thank you, Moesha.
- [51:10]
Sheila Marie
Yes, she really did teach the girls to journal.
- [51:13]
Gia Peppers
I'm like, I would not have known how important it was to hear my own feelings, like, without that space. So anywho. And shout out to the limited, too, for having the cutest journals growing up. Cause I.
- [51:25]
Sheila Marie
You are bringing me down memory lane.
- [51:27]
Gia Peppers
Like, if you're not a millennial, this is not for you.
- [51:29]
Sheila Marie
But were you even living?
- [51:30]
Gia Peppers
If you were there, you were there. And so now my big girls journals are not as cute, but they're, oh, so much more effective because I understand myself, and one of the best ways I do that is, again, you spend five minutes, or however long it takes writing out the lies, and then you go back and you literally write the truth or the fact. And so sometimes, for me, the lies look like nobody cares when I put out stuff. And I. There's no reason for me to put out stuff. No one cares if I create. No one cares if I show up. No one cares about my voice. My voice doesn't matter. Like, I allow it to spiral. I should just quit. Like, I allow it to go to hell. Go to hell. Get there.
- [52:12]
Sheila Marie
That's a good point. Get out.
- [52:13]
Gia Peppers
What are you really trying to say? What is that thing? And then I go to the truth. And the truth is, even if one person is helped by what I put out, the content mattered. I love what I'm doing, and it's teaching me whatever I need to learn on the way to whatever I'm supposed to be doing overall. So I have to show up for this moment. I am creating space for women to feel seen and heard in a time where we often don't have spaces for Black women to talk about their. Their journeys in a. In a setting that feels safe. Um, and I'm learn I'm using my. What I've learned thus far to show up for what I get to do in this moment. And it's amazing and I have value and my voice does matter. And if it wasn't true, these people wouldn't be saying yes. And coming on my podcast and coming to my platform, and usually when I let it go, it shows up in such a beautiful way. And for me, divorcing myself from the outcomes and the views and the numbers and focusing on a one by one relationship with the people who are coming into contact with my content or whatever I put out has been just so fulfilling for me. Like I was again at Accelerate Her. They really got it together with this conference. But Tyler Perry was speaking about how, first of all, he said, God doesn't waste my time. And he said it so matter of factly that, like, you just had to carry that in your soul. Like when I tell you the whole room went to church immediately and was like, just thank faces. They like you. You know, that's when you know you said something good. When the whole just that has to come together. And everybody was just like, yeah, no, wow. Sometimes you need to hear it simply, like, God does not waste your time. So if that's the truth, what are you looking at your time as? What's the perspective this time? Even in the mundane is not wasted. Even in the boring is not wasted. Even in the disappointment, because our feelings matter too, is not wasted. Um, and so I carried that with me. And then he also said, you know, he's got his new movie coming out with Taraji pants and called Strawberries. And he was just like, you know, I still have to fight for millions of things. And also, I know my audience. I know what millions of women need to see and hear and feel. And those are the women I show up for because I built my base one email at a time. So I was just like, well, look at what Tyler Perry has now. However you feel about him, whatever you feel.
- [54:47]
Sheila Marie
I was gonna say the boy, but I'm gonna just keep it cute. Stay on mute.
- [54:52]
Gia Peppers
The boy does that.
- [54:54]
Sheila Marie
He is successful.
- [54:55]
Gia Peppers
He does a very big. He has a studio that.
- [54:59]
Sheila Marie
He does have a studio that's employed.
- [55:01]
Gia Peppers
In Atlanta, half of Atlanta. Like, a lot of people work at Tyler Perry Studios now.
- [55:05]
Sheila Marie
That's a fact.
- [55:06]
Gia Peppers
He employs a lot of actors. There's a lot of folks who have mansions and all the little things or whatever it is. Their families are okay because of a Tyler Perry check that might. Yeah, he might have filmed it in two weeks. A14.14 episode, you know, arc in a day.
- [55:22]
Sheila Marie
Did Taraji say in four days?
- [55:23]
Gia Peppers
Like, but she ain't got to work. She ain't got to go look for the 30, 40, $50,000 she made that day. So, like I say, there's value in building what you are building, one person at a time. And I think we get so caught up because so many people make it overnight and their lives change by one viral moment when what we are building, one person at a time, still has the same amount of value. And that's what I took from it. So now when I see one new comment on my YouTube, I'm like, Let me go answer. Oh, my God, this is so exciting. Whereas before I was like, child, it's only one person. They don't get it. They don't really care. And that's not true. That's just not true. Like, every person that comes and engages with what we do is amazing.
- [56:14]
Sheila Marie
And so focus on the message, not the messenger. The message was actually a good message. Yes, I'll take that.
- [56:20]
Gia Peppers
Yes.
- [56:21]
Sheila Marie
Thank you so much, Gia. I appreciated having you on so much. I love getting you on the other side of the mic.
- [56:29]
Gia Peppers
I am honored to be here. And I loved our interview, and also you will be coming on mine. Yeah. You have always stuck with me as an amazing human, amazing spirit. I forget the day of that conference, but it was like that summit. I forget what it was like.
- [56:45]
Sheila Marie
Me neither. In Atlanta, right?
- [56:46]
Gia Peppers
Yes. And then we did. But we did a virtual one, like, because it was still pandemic before that time. Remember that?
- [56:52]
Sheila Marie
I love Nicole, by the way. Shout out to her.
- [56:54]
Gia Peppers
Shout out to Nicole. We love you.
- [56:55]
Sheila Marie
Her commitment, her career shift. You know what, Sarah? We gotta get her on.
- [56:59]
Gia Peppers
Yes, you do. Yes, you do.
- [57:00]
Sheila Marie
That's what we need to get her.
- [57:01]
Gia Peppers
On, because this is amazing. But you're such an amazing force, and you are such a brilliant representation of light and love and God's goodness that I just pray that you get all that favor and abundance and all the things that you put into the world tenfold back to you. I pray that all the smiles that you give, you walk in those smiles because you just give so much goodness and you deserve good things, baby. And I'm excited for the things.
- [57:25]
Sheila Marie
Look at Gia coming to bear gifts.
- [57:28]
Gia Peppers
I'm excited for the things that are coming through you, from the children to the shows to the messages, to the love. You are so powerful, and I'm just so excited to watch and see what God has for you.
- [57:41]
Sheila Marie
Well the feeling is mutual. I was about to say the same exact thing about you. You said it and I will say thank you for just reminding us that you don't have to know the final destination, you have to just take that next step and that you can be a working woman and a healed one at the same time. That is so important Gia. Where can the people find you? Listen to your podcast all the things.
- [58:03]
Gia Peppers
Yes you can follow me I peppers G I A and then peppers like salt and pepper with an S and then all things healed girl era is healedgirlerapod.com awesome.
- [58:16]
Sheila Marie
Thank you so much Gia. I'm sending you all the vibes back. Thank you for listening. Stay unruly and just take that next best step. Until next time. Bye. Thank you so much for listening. Be sure to to follow or subscribe so you never ever ever ever miss an episode of Unruly.