Josie and the Pussycats (with Joanna Robinson)

Summary

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Unspooled – Josie and the Pussycats (with Joanna Robinson)

Release Date: June 4, 2026
Hosts: Paul Scheer
Guest: Joanna Robinson (The Ringer)
Episode Theme: A deep-dive into the 2001 cult-favorite musical comedy Josie and the Pussycats, exploring its origins, satirical ambitions, casting, soundtrack, and shifting reputation.

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Episode Overview

This Dealer’s Choice episode of Unspooled celebrates Josie and the Pussycats (2001)—a box office flop turned cult classic. Stepping in for Amy Nicholson, cultural critic and podcaster Joanna Robinson joins Paul Scheer for a rich discussion about the film's pop music satire, razor-sharp wit, iconic performances, and why this misunderstood gem deserves to be talked about alongside the all-time greats of music movie comedies.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Josie and the Pussycats Became a Cult Classic

• Origins: Written/directed by Harry Elfont and Deborah Kaplan, fresh off Can't Hardly Wait (1998); based on the Archie Comics spin-off and Hanna-Barbera cartoon ([00:31]–[02:15]).
• Satirical Aim: Rather than a straight adaptation, Elfont and Kaplan’s script skewers the music industry, trend-chasing, and consumerism—turning the movie into a riotous critique of corporate pop culture ([02:15]–[03:30]).
• Brand Saturation: The film’s world is overloaded with real brands (Target, McDonald's, Coca Cola, and more) as a satirical device—no corporation paid for this placement ([03:30]–[04:15]).
• Initial Flop, Lasting Impact: The film bombed on release ($4.5 million opening against a $22–39 million budget), "most likely due to the fact that they didn't know how to market it" ([04:15]–[04:45])—but decades later, its sharpness and humor have made it beloved by a growing fandom.

2. Personal Connections & “Handshake Movies”

• Josie as a litmus test for pop culture taste; those who love it feel an immediate kinship ([06:24], Joanna Robinson).
  • Quote: "It’s a real handshake movie. A real if you know, you know movie." – Joanna Robinson ([06:27])
• Reflections on early encounters with the film—Paul saw it opening weekend; Joanna was introduced via her sister and the soundtrack ([08:45]–[10:44]).
  • Quote: "You would go out into the world and be like, oh, my God, this movie is great. And no one would believe you…No, I'm not. It's literally very, very funny." – Paul ([08:55])

3. Satire Misunderstood

• Critics and audiences failed to register the film’s biting satire, focusing instead on its wall-to-wall “commercials"—missing the point ([10:44]–[12:14]).
  • Quote: "We’re not able to identify satire." – Paul ([10:44])
  • Quote: "There’s a lot of reviews where it’s like, well, it’s just wall to wall commercials. Like, no, no, that's the point." – Paul ([10:53])

4. Casting, Chemistry, and Performances

• Leading Trio: Tara Reid (Melody), Rachel Leigh Cook (Josie), Rosario Dawson (Valerie)—chemistry and comic timing widely praised.
  • Quote: "The three of them just have such great, immediate chemistry together." – Joanna ([13:06])
  • Interest in the casting process: music stars like Beyoncé and Aaliyah auditioned for Valerie but ultimately didn’t fit the film’s comedic tone ([04:45], [23:04]–[24:36]).
• Supporting Players: Alan Cumming (Wyatt) and Parker Posey (Fiona) as over-the-top villains, their comedic synergy noted as a highlight ([13:42], [14:41]).
  • Quote: "Alan Cumming, I think, just steals the whole movie for me. I think he's outrageously great." – Joanna ([13:36])
• Cameos from Seth Green, Breckin Meyer, Donald Faison, Carson Daly (who was dating Tara Reid at the time, adding meta flair).

5. Soundtrack: A Secret Weapon

• Power-pop soundtrack penned by Adam Schlesinger, Matthew Sweet, Jane Wiedlin, Adam Duritz, Kay Hanley—became a genuine hit, even as the film flopped ([04:15]–[04:45], [10:13], [39:52]–[44:26]).
  • Quote: "The soundtrack is the best ambassador for the movie." – Joanna ([09:57])
• Kay Hanley’s vocals as Josie impress; Adam Schlesinger’s hits ("Three Small Words," etc.) elevate Josie and the Pussycats into the “elite sphere” of fictional movie bands.

6. Style, Direction, & Visuals

• Directed with verve and a bright, music-video aesthetic by cinematographer Matthew Libatique (Requiem for a Dream, Black Swan) ([19:01]), which gives the film a kinetic, polished look.
• Highly effective use of montage: quick storytelling, development of character relationships, and satirical punch in under 100 minutes ([19:27]–[20:40]).

7. Subversive Humor, Meta Moments, and Fourth Wall

• The film layers in meta-gags, such as direct references to the comic book origins, winking at audience without cheapening the story ([21:17]).
  • Quote: "The line itself turns at the camera and winks, but the character doesn't." – Joanna ([21:31])
• Numerous in-jokes about branding, music, MTV, and the industry’s complicity in the satire itself ([12:14]).

8. Marketing Woes & Why It Flopped

• Marketing the film as a straightforward girl-band comedy failed to capture its satirical ambitions—posters, trailers didn’t telegraph it was funny, nor highlight any known comedy star ([35:11]–[39:19]).
  • Quote: "There’s nothing on it that says comedy…a lot of comedy posters are terrible." – Paul ([35:43])
• The challenge of selling comedies without a “big brand” comedian or clear genre signals ([37:06], Joanna).

9. The Broader Cultural Context

• Released months before 9/11, the film represents “the tail end of a certain era”—a bubble-gum, hyper-commercialized version of American pop culture that faded after the attacks ([53:03]–[58:39]).
• The subsequent shift toward escapist fantasy (e.g., Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter) and away from cheeky pop cynicism ([54:49]).
• Discussion of why the film may have been discounted for being “about girls” or dismissed amid male-dominated narratives ([31:13], [34:15]).

10. The Creative Team's Legacy

• Josie’s failure seemingly pushed Elfont & Kaplan toward safer, more conventional projects.
  • Quote: "They got spooked by people not getting it…They haven't really shot for that since." – Joanna ([63:14])
• Excitement at news of them selling a new script in 2026; hopes for renewed appreciation ([65:23]–[65:31]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Satire and Commercialism:
  • "She's showering in a McDonald's shower…If I tell you it's a satire, then it's not like it didn't work." – Paul ([11:08])
• On Chemistry and Performances:
  • "Alan Cumming and Parker Posey, like, the king and queen of camp are here, just giving it their everything" – Joanna ([13:18])
• On Misunderstanding the Movie:
  • "I just don't get people who don't get this movie." – Joanna ([12:14])
• Meta Humor Highlight:
  • "Wouldn't you want to see a movie called Josie and the Pussycats?" – Alan Cumming ([00:03], [21:41])
• On the Soundtrack:
  • "All of the musical talent that they brought in and then the way that, you know, Tara and Rosario and Rachel went to band camp long enough to look like they can convincingly play their instruments—it's just perfect." – Joanna ([24:38])
• Industry Satire Cameo:
  • "Hello, I'm Eugene Levy and yes, I'm an actor…I'm here to talk to you about subliminal messages in rock and roll music." – Eugene Levy ([30:21])
• On the Shift After 9/11:
  • "People mistake this for a 90s movie because I do think that like 2002, the first 2/3 of 2001…get sucked back in." – Joanna ([54:11])
  • "Everything felt…like us and them in a weird way of like shiny and bright and we're just like these peons and maybe Britney will shake our hand as she walks by." – Paul ([56:20])
• On the Creative Team's Trajectory:
  • "They got spooked by people not getting it, and then they haven't really shot for that since." – Joanna ([63:14])
• On the Joy of Discovery:
  • "I love a movie where it's just chock full of like, oh my gosh, I love that person. And everybody in this is truly that." – Paul ([65:59])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|----------------------------------------------------------| | 00:31 | Background on film’s creation, satirical aims | | 06:05 | Joanna’s connection—“handshake movie” concept | | 08:54 | Paul’s first viewing, film’s misunderstood tone | | 10:44 | Society’s struggle to recognize satire | | 13:06 | Praise for cast chemistry and standout performances | | 19:01 | Cinematography and musical montages | | 21:17 | Meta humor and breaking the fourth wall | | 31:13 | Gendered perceptions, comparing Josie to other hits | | 35:11 | Discussion on marketing and why the film flopped | | 39:52 | The soundtrack’s vital role, Adam Schlesinger & more | | 53:03 | The film as a time capsule, post-9/11 culture shift | | 63:14 | Legacy and career impact for Elfont & Kaplan |

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Final Thoughts & Legacy

• Josie and the Pussycats is praised for its humor, smart satire, prescient take on pop culture, and enduring soundtrack.
• The episode positions Josie as a must-watch for anyone interested in clever comedy, pop music history, or the perils of commercialism—arguing it deserves recognition alongside icons like This Is Spinal Tap.
• Both hosts express hope that the creative team gets a new chance—maybe the tides are finally turning for this cult favorite.

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For further listening:

• Josie and the Podcast (Maria Lewis)
• "Best Movie Ever: Oral History of Josie and the Pussycats"

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Summary by Unspooled Podcast Summarizer – June 2026

Transcript

[Paul Scheer]

The year is 2001.

[Alan Cumming]

I mean, would you be more interested in a band called simply the Pussycats or are you more likely to buy a CD or read a comic or watch a cartoon or go and see a movie about a trio of luscious ladies called Josie and the Pussycats?

[Paul Scheer]

The movie Josie and the Pussycats, it

[Joanna Robinson]

does have a nice ring to it.

[Alan Cumming]

Oh, yes.

[Paul Scheer]

Welcome to Unspooled. I am Paul Scheer and this is a podcast about good movies, critical hits, fan favorites, must sees and encase you misstems. Normally, I am joined by my co host, LA Times film critic Amy Nicholson, to talk about the films people consider the best ever made. But while she is away in Cannes, we are leaving our best of lists and focusing on one person, one person's favorite underappreciated classic or film that maybe doesn't get enough love. This is Dealer's Choice, a series where our guests get to choose what movie they they need to talk about and anything goes. Like I said, today we are talking about 2001's musical comedy Josie and the Pussycats. And let's go back to 1998. Harry Elfonte and Deborah Kaplan are riding high. They just wrote and directed Can't Hardly Wait, a very well received teen ensemble comedy, and they get handed something pretty unexpected. The rights to adapt Josie and the Pussycats. Now, this property goes all the way back to Archie Comics, created by Dan DeCarlo. It spawned a Hanna Barbera animated series in the 70s which ran for 16 episodes, and then a spinoff called Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space. So this is not exactly like Prestige ip. But Elfonte and Kaplan aren't really interested in doing a straight adaptation. They devise a story that skewers American trend chasing in the entire music industry. Because the moment that we're living in in 1998 is ripe for exactly that. It's the spring of 2001. It's a strange time. Boy bands and pop singers dominate the Billboard charts. NSync, Backstreet Boys, Britney Spears, all of these people are at the top of their game. And El Font and Kaplan, who came up on grunge music and individuality, watch it all start to disappear so quickly and replaced by something so shiny and clean and sanitized. So they make a movie exactly about that. It's about a girl band from Riverdale who gets plucked from a bowling alley gig and rocketed to global superstardom by a record label that's hiding subliminal messages in pop music to make teenagers buy consumer products and here's the joke at the center of the whole thing. Since the movie is a satire of consumerism and popular trends, they want to create a world filled with branding and advertising. So they need as many real brands as possible to make that satire happen. Teeth, we're Talking about Target, McDonald's, Starbucks, Coca Cola, all wall to wall. But none of these corporations paid for their spots. They did it all behind their back. So now casting Tara Reid is actually the first person cast as Melody Valentine. She's fresh off American Pie. Then Rachel Leigh Cook gets the lead role of Josie McCoy. She's coming off, she's all that. And she beats out actresses like Zooey Deschanel and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Then for the role of Valerie, the bassist, they are trying to figure out who's the right person. The producer, Babyface, encouraged them to think about music stars and they audition people, I mean, that are insane. It's Beyonce, Aaliyah, Lisa, Left Eye Lopez. They all audition for Valerie, but at the end of the day, that part goes to Rosario Dawson. Now the film has a murderer's row of supporting players from Alan Cumming and Parker Posey, who are the villains to cameos from Seth Green, Breckin Meyer, Donald Faison, Carson Daly. Carson Daly, by the way, in this, plays a character himself who tries to kill Tara Reid's character. And they were actually dating at the time, so that was kind of a fun thing. Now for the music, they bring in Babyface as an executive producer, but the songs are written by an all star indie power pop dream team. Adam Schlesinger from Fountains of Wayne, Matthew Sweet, Jane Whedon of the Go Go's Adam Duritz of Counting Crows, and Kay Ha of Letters to Cleo, who also provides the actual singing voice of Josie. Soundtrack hits 16 on the Billboard Top 200 and goes gold, selling more than half a million copies. And the movie kind of just falls apart. Josie and the Pussycats opens in seventh place with $4.5 million against a budget between 22 to 39 million. It is a genuine box office bomb and most likely due to the fact that they didn't know how to market it. But cut to 20 years later, it is now a cult classic. In retrospect, it is kind of been reevaluated as one of the most incisive studio comedies of its era. Essentially a movie that was making fun of a system it was simultaneously trapped inside of. Now, who brought us here to Riverdale? Who wants to talk Pussycats? Well, she is a podcaster and cultural Critic for the Ringer, she appears on podcasts such as the Prestige TV podcast and House of R. Formerly a senior writer for Vanity Fair and a perennial lover of all things fandom, please welcome Joanna Robinson. Joanna, I am so excited to have you here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Paul. What a joy. What a delight. I'm trying to remember the last time I talked to you on a podcast, and I feel like it was Westworld. Is that what it is?

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my gosh, yes. I mean, that is far too long. Maybe even Westworld when it was good. I don't even think we were in. We were in the sour seasons of that. I can't tell you how excited I was when you submitted your list of films that you wanted to talk about. And Josie and the Pussycats was on it because this is a movie that I absolutely love. But enough about me, I want to know, why do you love this? Why was this a movie that you wanted to talk about?

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. So the prompt from your lovely producers were, you know, was sort of whatever I want to talk about. And, you know, I love your. I love Unspooled. I love what you and Amy do, and you guys have covered such iconic films. And I was like, but if I just get to pick a favorite. I sent you kind of a demented list.

[Paul Scheer]

It was great.

[Joanna Robinson]

And I was just like, what are the movies that I always want to talk about, but there's never really an occasion to talk about them? Josie and the Pussycats, one of my all time favorite movies. It's a real handshake movie. A real if you know, you know movie. Yes. And when you meet another Josie fan out in the world, you're like, oh, you get it. I get. I see you, you see me. And so I just want. I'm thrilled to know that you're one of those people, Paul, and I'm thrilled to talk to you about it.

[Paul Scheer]

Hey, everybody. One of my favorite podcasts, Talking Pictures, is back for another season. You know this. It's from TCM and hbo Max. It's a podcast all about movies and memories, hosted by Ben Mankiewicz. And he gets to sit down with some of Hollywood's most influential actors and filmmakers to discuss the. The movies that inspired them. I've been on the show. It was the most fun. And this season, he is talking to people like Edgar Wright about pacing and montages in film and Rosie Perez about her acting career and how it kind of just began on accident. He's also talking to Patton Oswalt, Susan Sarandon, Hira Murai, who is a director who Did a lot of Atlanta and the great new show Widow's Bay. Sally Field, Tony Goldwyn, and Sarah. So much more this season. Ben and his guests are on camera, so you can also watch talking pictures on HBO Max and Spotify or listen wherever you get your podcast.

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[Alan Cumming]

Unschooled.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay, so let me tell you my experience with this film, because I saw it when it came out in theaters.

[Joanna Robinson]

You were one of the few.

[Paul Scheer]

One of the few. I was part of that 4.5 million opening weekend. Um, and I think I want to maybe see it as, like, oh, this is going to be so bad. It's good, right? Like, I. I didn't know because we're at the time of, like, the Flintstones and weird, like, ip, that's not really good. And I, like, loved it. And it was. It was crazy because you would go out into the world and be like, oh, my God, this movie is great. And no one would believe you. Like, well, you're doing a bit. No, I'm not. It's literally very, very funny. It was. And that's the hardest thing with this film is, like, people don't believe that it could be good.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right? No. You hear that? And I don't know if the existence of the show Riverdale has, like, helped that or hurt it, I would guess hurt it. But, you know, I grew up on Archie comics for sure.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, really? Okay.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, like, you know, Archie, Betty and Veronica. Not so much like Josie, et cetera. But I loved those comics. But it was my sister. My sister, who's older than I am by 4 years and sort of handed everything down to me. I was in college. She was, you know, Just out of college. And she's like, I saw Josie and the Pussycats. I promise you, it's great. I think she burned me a CD of the soundtrack. And the soundtrack is the best ambassador for the movie.

[Paul Scheer]

A soundtrack.

[Joanna Robinson]

So good. So she burned me a CD back when we did that of the soundtrack. And then I remember I rented it from the blockbuster and I had a bunch of friends over. I think it was like a girl's a Galentine's Day thing or something like that. And I. And we. I was like, my sister swears is great. Let's watch it. I think half the room was really into it and half weren't. And I don't know that that was the occasion for it, but I just loved it and became obsessed with it. And then, like I said, just meeting people out in the world who get it and showing it to people is also incredibly fun.

[Paul Scheer]

So, yeah, I'm always like, railing on this thing that's happening in our world, which is like, we're not able to identify satire.

[Alan Cumming]

We.

[Paul Scheer]

Right. And. And it's. We take things at face value. And I feel like that's what this. How this movie seems to be received. Like, you know, there's a lot of reviews where it's like, well, it's just wall to wall commercials. Like, no, no, that's the point.

[Joanna Robinson]

Are you kidding me?

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, she's showering in a McDonald's shower. Like. Like it's. And it's so frustrating because I think when you do a really smart satire, it doesn't play like a satire. There's a great quote that Ari Aster said about Eddington. It's like, if I tell you it's a satire, then it. Then it's not like it didn't work right. Like, it's like you can't. You can't like, tell people that. Like, they have to figure it out for themselves. And that's what I think is hard. Cause I think if you're just looking at it, it's gonna feel like, oh, this is just one of those, eh. Movies. But the themes are awesome. I mean, the fact that they got Carson Daly at the height of TRL to play a murderous version of himself is insane.

[Joanna Robinson]

What is going on? Are you. Is this TRL or not?

[Paul Scheer]

This is not Total Request Live. It's more like Total Requests Dead.

[Alan Cumming]

Yeah. You see, ladies, we've only got one request today, and that's to kill you.

[Joanna Robinson]

Carson said he's gonna kill us. Like, that's the request.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, man.

[Joanna Robinson]

I got the blonde Serena Alshal also doing MTV News. Just, you know, like, all the product placement is its own thing. But the fact that they got MTV to participate in this and also are bringing in, like, VH1 behind the Music to be part of this as well. It's just the way that they got, for some reason, the industry itself that they are skewering to buy in and participate inside of it is astounding to me and just a miracle of it. It's so funny. It's so bitingly funny. And the jokes just fly. A million jokes a minute. And I. I just don't get. I don't get people who don't get this movie, I guess, is what I would say.

[Paul Scheer]

I. I would also say, like, we'll get into all these, like, little details, but, like, Tara Reid, this might be her best performance in anything.

[Joanna Robinson]

I really agree. I think she's fantastic in this. I'm not a Tara, like, apology to the sharknado heads, but I'm not a Tara Reid fan. Like, no, Yeah, I. I think this is Rachel E. Cooke's performance. It's up. Rosario Dawson's done so much, but it's, like, up there for Rosario. The three of them just have such great, immediate chemistry together. And then this is like, you've got Alan Cumming and Parker Posey, like, the king and queen of camp are here, just giving it their everything. Alan Cumming, I think, just steals the whole movie for me. I think he's outrageously great. So, Wyatt.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes? Could you make me talk to Marco about him always doing my face? You remember in the what video? I established the face? Well, ever since then, every time you see Marco, he's doing the face, and it's mine. You look at him on trl. Hi, Carson. You look at him on the Kids Choice Awards. This is ours.

[Joanna Robinson]

Thanks.

[Alan Cumming]

And then right here on the COVID of Seventeen magazine. Hi, little girl. Beauty secrets. It's my face. It's my face. Oh, hey, Travis. Am I here doing your face? Cause God forbid I do your face. Cause it's such a good face. Boys, boys, boys. My face. Hold up. She's doing things. Friendship. Thank you, Les. Now, listen. Listen to me. Let's all take a moment. When we land, I will call the choreographer, and she will give you a new face. Oh, it's too bad your mama couldn't give you a good face. Take that back right now. I'm sorry, Travis.

[Paul Scheer]

I was thinking about this when I was watching. I was like, I love Alan coming in. It's like, wow, his career is gigantic. But then I was also thinking he did something kind of similar in Spice World too, Right? Like, he was in these two very big movies as, like, this kind of mustache twirling guy. But I feel like the difference here versus Spice World is like, Spice World, I think, had sort of aspirations to kind of be a little bit more subversive than it was. But I don't think the writing and directing actually amplified this, where in this movie, they really let them do their stuff. And it's like watching Parker Posey, like, at full strength, just being like, the Parker Posey that we love against him is just like, I can't get enough of it. And apparently Parker Posey only had, like, two weeks, so they were shooting through all of her stuff so quickly. And they're just electric together, and they seem like they're improvising and just playing in every little moment.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. Something I heard, an interview that Deb and Harry gave was that Parker only signed on because Alan Cummings signed on. And so they kind of came as a package deal. And that the two of them together are really just bouncing off each other in delightful ways. It's interesting to me the way that the Legacy, you know, this is now considered a cult classic. And I feel like when an anniversary rolls around, I think especially the 20th anniversary five years ago, is that around when the Mondo vinyl release came out?

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, exactly. I think the Mondo vinyl came out, like. Yes. I think 20th or 17th year, it's out. Like, it's like. And that's like when the concert happens, right, where they do that amazing thing at the Ace Theater where they get the entire band together. Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yes. And I did a super yaki, put out a bumper sticker that says Du Jourmin seatbelts, which I still have on my car. I have literally two bumper stickers on my car, and one of them is Digermine seatbelt. And I've only. And I get questions about it all the time. People are like, what does that mean? I was like, it's Josie the Pussycats. I don't know what to tell you, but I was at a. Do you remember that Alanis went on tour, like, a couple years ago? And so I was up in the Bay Area at the Alanis concert, and I saw someone else in the parking lot, had a dejormin seatbelt like, bumper sticker? And I was like, exactly. This is the demographic, exactly. For this bumper sticker.

[Progressive/Microsoft/Shopify Advertiser]

Here we are.

[Paul Scheer]

So, yeah, I mean, and that's the thing, too. The movie opens with this song from Du Jour And I feel like it's so from moment one, just like, it's assured of what it is. And I feel like everything that I've really heard from Kaplan and Elphon is like, there was no hesitation and really no pushback because it was living in this world of, you know, a 25 to $30 million movie that they're like, yeah, yeah, go do your thing. Like, it's not going to be like, we're not putting our blockbuster hopes on this. I mean, I think they wanted it to do better than it did, but they got to really just do it where they're doing this scene about like, you know, it's like Backdoor Lover. It's like in. These guys are, like, simulating, like, fucking each other and it's like. It's like, there it is. And I also understand, like, if you just brought little girls to it, because I think that's how the movie started to get marketed.

[Joanna Robinson]

Right.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, that's going way over their heads, right?

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

That movie kind of falls in this weird zone of, like, they market it to kids, but really it should be for the 20 to 40 year olds, but you don't. But the 20 and 40 year olds, it's like, how do you get them to the theater that they actually feel like it's cool? And I mean, the thing I read about this that blew my mind was they actually released a family friendly home video version of it. And that was one of the things that actually helped explode it. It was like, now family friendly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God.

[Paul Scheer]

So they just like, took out.

[Joanna Robinson]

So they had to, like, cut. Cut. Backdoor Lover.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, I think. I think they just did a lot of, like, it's like a TV edit that was in blockbuster, like, and it's now family friendly.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, and it's pretty family friendly as is.

[Joanna Robinson]

Totally.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, but yeah, I also think that the. One of the things about this movie that I was blown away by on this watch was how good it looks and then realizing, oh, that's Matthew Libatique. Right. Who is, like, known for, like, Requiem for a Dream, Black Swan. You know, like, he's amazing. Like, you know, a star is born. Like, he's Darren Aronaka.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's funny, I was really struck rewatching it earlier today. I was really struck by the use of montage in this movie and how effective. You know, it's a musical, right? This is a musical. And so we've got the band performing. You know, occasionally we get the Pussycats or du jour performing a song in a performance way. But mostly we're getting it as storytelling montage. So like the opening credits is them establishing the relationship between the three girls via a montage of three small words. And it's just. It's perfect. So by the time the movie actually starts, I'm already bought into their friendship and their relationship and their hobbies and

[Paul Scheer]

like everything about them.

[Joanna Robinson]

Exactly. And then we've got like, you know, there's like a little bit of like a love story, kind of weak love story, but that's fine. But like a little bit of a love story montage in here. Their explosive success montage, you know, their makeover montage. Like a lot of shortcut music video storytelling. But it's really effectively done in that, you know, this is a. This is a really quick movie. It's a 98 minute movie. And it's just. Everything is. Just fits together so perfectly well.

[Paul Scheer]

I love that thing where they're kind of riding the Billboard chart. Right. And it's like at the beginning of cgi, so they don't really have, like, they're not fully doing it cgi. Like, they're literally climbing around on sets and they're building it in and it looks so good. And then you play this moment of them, like going from, you know, just released to number one. And then like the immediate joke right after it is like, wow, I can't believe that that only took a week. You know, it's like. And the movie is constantly giving you both things, which is like, it kind of pulls the carpet out from under you, but it also is doing the thing like it was it Missy Pyle's character where they're like, and why are you here? And she's like, I was in the comic book.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I was in the comic book.

[Paul Scheer]

And it's like. And you just keep on going. It doesn't. It like, it allows itself to be. This is the thing I'm always like, obsessed with is like, you're meta, but you're also not putting the brakes on the actual movie. It's like, you know, it's. Yeah, you're still doing the movie.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. The line itself turns at the camera and winks, but the character doesn't. She's like, I think casually looking at her nails and doesn't even make eye contact with the person she's talking to.

[Paul Scheer]

That's a really good point.

[Joanna Robinson]

When she's just like, I'm in the comic book. You know, and so it's like, you know, and Later. Alan Cumming is like, wouldn't you want to see a movie called Josie and the Pussycats? You know? And it's just sort of like it's part of his, you know, really obvious sell to the girls. And it's, you know, it's winking at the camera, but he's not winking at the camera. So it just seems perfect, you know?

[Paul Scheer]

And I just wonder, like, what has been such a big part of this film is. I don't think that while they, you know, they. First of all, they cast it great. I think that's one of the things that you can make the argument of, like, can't hardly wait when you look at that. That cast. I mean, another great. Like, that was another one where you're like, oh, yeah, this is fantastic. They got these people. I think what I really like about them is that they. They actually cast genuinely funny people in these parts. Like, they're not trying to go for just, like, the hot people. And I feel like that is kind of the other thing that. That I think makes this movie separate from everything else. Like, they really wanted to find these right people. Like, they were talking about, like, Aaliyah. When Aaliyah auditioned, they're like, it was too serious. It felt too real. Like, we liked her, but it wasn't tonally. Right. And I feel like that's the thing. I think it's good they didn't cast Beyonce. I would have. It's cool that Beyonce auditioned, but she's not right. Rosario Dawson is right.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely. I'm trying to remember when did Gold. So Goldmember came out in 2002. Right. And that was like, Beyonce's doing a movie.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And she's just, like, not very good. She's, like, kind of fun in that movie. She's not very good or funny in that movie. And Beyonce can do a million things, but she can't quite do this. And so I was thinking about that. I was like, what if they had cast Beyonce? Cause the way they talked about her in audition, they were like, she was quiet. She was kind of quiet and nervous. And so we weren't quite sure if they cast Beyonce instead of Rosario Dawson. This is not as good of a movie, especially since the character of Val has to carry a lot of sort of the energy.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. The emotion.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

She's got to be the real weight, and she's the reason for all the. The second act kind of drama in a way, you know? Yeah.

[Joanna Robinson]

So, like, if you had a weaker actress or, you know, you know, someone is as talented as Beyonce, but can't pull that. Then this is a weaker movie. But it would be a curiosity. I was thinking about that. I was like, would it be a cure, a forever curiosity of like, this is Beyonce's acting debut or if it is, literally. But then I was like, but Gold member didn't get that. So I. I don't know that it would have helped the movie in any way to have that. And in fact, you know, casting Rachel Leigh Cook, I. I actually usually get upset when you cast non singers in singing roles, right? Yes, I usually do. But they voice matched Kay Hanley for Rachel Lee Cook, like, so perfectly.

[Paul Scheer]

It really is kind of great.

[Joanna Robinson]

It doesn't bump at all. And so like, you know, these girls, I put. I put these girls, Josie and the Pussycats, up there with like the top fictional bands of all time. Like, you know, the Oneiders, like from that thing you do. Like, you know, there's like an elite sphere and they're up there because all of the musical talent that they brought in and then the way that, you know, Tara and Rosario and Rachel went to band camp long enough to look like they can convincingly play their instruments, it's just perfect inside of this movie.

[Paul Scheer]

And the thing I can't quite wrap my head around is why isn't this brought up in the same reverence as Spinal Tap? And I think we're maybe getting closer to it because Spinal Tap captures a very specific era and a time with rock bands. And this captures a very specific era in time. And I think they're equally. I mean, joke wise, they're equally funny. And I think that there's always gonna be like a little level of like misogyny to a certain degree, you know, but it's like. But this is. I mean, it is. I think I was just in this watch, like, I felt vindicated that I liked it so much because it's been a little bit of time. And then I also was like mad that it wasn't getting enough. Like, you know, like, at this point it should be more out there. And obviously the Ace Hotel, where when they did the concert was like sold out. In the Mondo thing, there is a giant fan base, but I think culturally it still has, like, it still needs to like get a kind of puncture through a little bit more and be like. Cause even that thing you do, I think is put up on a pedestal higher than Josie and the Pussycats.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely it is. You know, what Josie and the Pussycats really needed was an episode of Unspooled. I think that's kind of the episode.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean this is finally we got it out there.

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[Paul Scheer]

One of the things I love about this movie is we talked about the casting, but putting Eugene Levy as the voice of like the ambassador to the evil plan was such an inspired choice, especially at this moment where he shoots that on the American Pie set. So like American Pie is this movie at that point that is, you know, enormously popular and he is the dad. And so for him to be like the gateway for it is like on many levels great. But then also a great comedic actor just playing that. So dead and just so straight laced and so. He's so good. Oh my God, I love that.

[Eugene Levy]

Hello, I'm Eugene Levy and yes, I'm an actor. No, I said cappuccino. I'm here to talk to you about something very important. No, it's not about me or my career. I'm here to talk about subliminal messages in rock and roll music, or as it's simply known in some cultures, rock music. You see, for years the government has been wisely coercing teenagers to buy products they normally wouldn't want just to get their money. Fact, kids don't have bills to pay. They don't pay taxes, but they do babysit and hold minimum wage jobs that earn them wads of cash as thick as well, my body of work. We can have them chasing a new trend every week and that is good for the economy and what's good for the economy is good for the country. So God bless the United States of America, the most ass kicking country in the world.

[Joanna Robinson]

They also, yeah, you know, it's funny to think of him as like, you know, he's this great Canadian talent, but he's giving this video commercial for like what's good for the country and there's a girl in a gold bikini with like an American flag behind him. I wanna, I wanna go back quickly to your misogyny point because I was like all ready to make that argument myself. I was like, it's misogyny. It's, it's people discounting girl power things. But then, you know, this, this came out the year after Bring it on and Charlie's Angels, which were like huge hits. And just a few months after this, Legally Blonde comes out and it's a huge hit. So there was a mark, you know, was not that people were just not going to see girl centric movies and Legally Blonde coming out. You know, literally this comes out in April, it comes out in July the same year. It coming out like just a few months later and having a similar sort of satirical take on girliness and pink and blondness and all of that. And I just wonder if it wrapped itself in enough of a straightforward rom com package that it hit on multiple levels. Whereas Josie and the Pussycats is just so sharp and pointed, like at all times that it didn't, it can't pass that you can't just like watch it as a fun girl band. Like you know, makes it big movie and it has all these other jokes. It's just like too, almost too smart. I don't know if that's happening.

[Paul Scheer]

That's what I was thinking too because there's a quote that like Harry Alphonse said, he was like, we saw Charlie's Angels and we're like, oh, we're screwed. Like, and like. Cause I think what that was doing was playing it straight. It was like, it is Charlie. I love Charlie's Angels as well. I rewatched it a little different than.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh yeah, it's got some stuff in there.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. So, yeah, I showed it to my. I was like, this is gonna be great. And we all were like, huh, okay. But that like, it plays it straight and I think that like Legally Blonde is like, it feels like it's forward facing and making fun of being like, we know blondes are like, you know, it's like it's playing on the trope of blond or something. Like, that, like. And I feel like this movie, if you look at the poster, there wasn't anything. And this is maybe the marketing of it, right? It's like, right, oh. It's like, I don't think that there's no nothing in my mind that makes me go, this is going to be a funny movie. It's going to be like, Viva Rock Vegas or whatever else. And I feel like. And in my thought of the misogyny aspect of it, it's like, there might be a part of, like, well, they. Surely. It's not funny. Like, it's about girl band. It's not gonna be. It's not a funny movie. Right? And it's like. And that's what I think it is. It's a subtle distinction within it. Cause I do think you're right. It's like, oh, well, those girls are. Everything else is playing into the world that they're making fun of. So they're subverting the world. And then I also think that there's just an element where. And I think this is why that thing you do is probably viewed a little bit higher than this. Cause it's like. It's just sort of like, yeah, yeah,

[Joanna Robinson]

but that's my bad.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And. Cause I don't think that people have seen it. That's the other thing, too. It's like, that's like, when you show it to people that have not seen it, they're. Oh, oh, I get it. Right. And I think there's, like, a realization here. But the fact that this is not like. I don't know. I just think it's like, so many years later, it still feels so true. Like, the way the algorithm is feeding you what you want and what you need. It's like, this is it. They're right there.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's even more transparent now. And we're still sort of like, in the clutches of it. And I think it was before its time in many ways. And I also want, like, on the market. I'm like, I wonder if they had trouble marketing this not just because they picked the wrong demo to target, but also, like, is it difficult to get marketing people to help you with a movie that is about how damaging marketing is, that. Is that an uphill battle?

[Paul Scheer]

Well, you know, I was thinking about this the other day because I was writing this thing about, like, blockbusters, and I was, like, trying to wrap my head around, like, what. Why, you know, we are living in this world of high concept. Like, what's the high concept? You know, it's this, but that, you know, it's this. And I looked at Pop Star, another movie that I think is an underrated shame. Like, so funny. And again, capturing something, again, another period. Like, that's the Bieber era. And I looked at the poster for that, and when you look at the poster for Pop Star, it's Andy in a Bieber pose by himself, legs crossed, face painting down. Like, face looking down. It just says pop Star. And if you were to walk by that in a movie theater, you would think, oh, this is another thing. There's nothing on it that says comedy. There's nothing on it that says, like, that's Andy Samberg. Nope, it's just like, that's that. And that also flopped because I don't think. I think that marketing people don't know how to make comedy or position comedy because they don't know how to sell that it's funny without it being overt and sweaty. So they walk this weird line. It's like, oh, and a lot of comedy posters are terrible. That movie with Paul Rudd and Jen Aniston that David Wayne did, I always think of this as picture perfect. No, this was the one that. It was like, wander. No, Wanderlust.

[Joanna Robinson]

Wanderlust. Okay.

[Paul Scheer]

Which, you know, say what you will about the quality of that. Like, I love David and I think it's fun. But the poster is Jennifer Aniston and Paul Rudd, and their back is to the camera. So you're just looking at the two of them jumping off a pier, but you don't see their faces. And I'm like, wait, you got Paul Rudd and Jennifer Aniston. You're not showing their faces on the poster. Wait, what are we doing?

[Joanna Robinson]

I think, to your point, with. With faces, chiefly, I was thinking about. This is like, how do you market a comedy? And you market a comedy by saying, hey, Will Ferrell's in this. And.

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

And Adam Sandler's in this.

[Paul Scheer]

And, like, Reese Witherspoon even. Right.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's like Sandra Bullock is in this. You know, like, we've. We've got a. You know, Melissa McCarthy's in this. We've got a comedic. You know, like, Eddie Murphy is here. Whoever it is. Like, they're known for comedy. We put them front and center. And you walk past a Will Ferrell poster. With the exception of Stranger Than Fiction, which is still a really funny movie. Like, you know, you're. You're like. You're like, oh, I'm gonna laugh at whatever this is. I'm gonna laugh at it. And. And if you hide that. You know, you need the branding of the comedian almost, or back in the day, the sort of like, SNL property that was, like, brought to the big screen or something like that. But like, Rachel Leigh Cook, Tara Reid, with love and respect, even though American Pie was a huge hit, and Rosario Dawson, the three. Those three girls are not selling anything, you know, So I don't know if you would like if they had put, you know, Tara Reid was a star at that point, but I don't know if you had put like a star, a young female star who was known for comedy in that role. Does it change it? But I actually don't even know if that girl existed.

[Paul Scheer]

I don't know who that girl is. And, you know, it's like you look at this poster and it's a. Like the three of them in the back of a limo, like, kind of hugging, and then the CD is in front of them. And yeah, it just looks like a straightforward. I mean, it's them, obviously, but it doesn't tell you. And this is a hard thing because we are like such a culture of just like, looking at, you know, making a snap judgment. I mean, and I think that the Judd Apatow era was really defined by exactly what you said. Those posters which were like, here is Steve Carell's face looking up. 40 year old virgin. That's a beautifully done poster. Cause the title is funny. The picture is funny, and then it's like Seth Rogen knocked up. It's like that face is funny and super bad. The two of those guys, like, like, they're very. It's, I think, also like a playful title, but it is. It's like front and center and knowing that you're gonna get this thing. Um, yeah. I don't know. I don't know how you. Unless you made the poster, like, to your point, like, making fun of branding a movie poster. Like, you know, which. Then it gets confusing too. Cause it's like, what am I? What am I looking at?

[Joanna Robinson]

What am I? What is. What is this puzzle? Yeah, I don't know. And I'm curious, you know, as we keep revisiting it every five years or whatever the case may be, or every day, if you're a true. I'm wondering if in this moment right now with Parker Posey coming off of that season of White Lotus, that really sort of put her in front of a different audience than her entire career has. And then Alan cumming in his traitors moment, is there a way to sort of bring the White Lotus and Traitor's people to Josie and the PC on board.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, well, they think that that's. And I think also you're right. Like, they should be more revivals of this. Get this out there. I was like, they should do a yearly concert or at least every five years. Cause I think that the thing about this movie that also is amazing is the music is very good. And that is tricky. That's a tricky thing to do to create hit songs. It makes you also just go like, oh, I understand this now. I remember Liz Phair. I love Liz Phair. And she had great albums. But then she was like, I'm tired of not having a number one hit. And then made an album where she went with those people who did Ashlee Simpson's album. And then she got all those number. That album had number one hits. And you're like, oh, they know. I was always fascinated by that idea that, oh, you can create a number one hit song. And that's so bizarre. It works on a level that piques your brain the right way.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's true. But it's interesting because. So Adam Schlesinger, who wrote Pretend to Be Nice, which is supposed to be like, the big hit for the girls in this movie, and also that thing you do, you know, the song that. That entire movie hinges on, that song being a hit, he wrote both of those. Like, imagine being the person, you know, the late, great Adam Schlesinger. Imagine being the person who wrote both for Josie the Pussycats and the One Eaters. Right. The Wonders. And. And I was listening to him give an interview about this, and he was talking about how I love Fountains of Wayne. Like, his band Fountains of Wayne, I'm a huge fan of. And all of their songs have this, like, incredibly catchy, poppy, propulsive, like, Beatles y kind of energy to them. But he was like. He was like, I don't know why, other than, like, Stacey's mom. He's like, I don't know why none of our songs hit the way that, like, nothing you do hit. And he was like, because there's packaging that comes around it. It's like it's in a movie and everyone in the movie is saying it's a hit. And then you've got, like, really attractive people playing it. And, you know, so there's just like, all this other stuff that goes behind creating a number one hit. It's not just like what I wrote. It's also all the packaging that comes with it.

[Paul Scheer]

Right? It's like, yeah, I think that, like, telling people it's a hit is a really funny thing too. It's like, oh, yeah, this is successful. And you're like, oh, yeah, it is, of course.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah. And then Kay Hanley has talked about how she's like, I think maybe I've done the best singing of my life dubbing for Rachel Leigh Cook. She's like, because I didn't. I was so free. Like, nobody was going to judge it as me singing as myself. And so I could just like really give this extra energy and effort to it that maybe I was always kind of afraid to do when I was me in front of Letters to Cleo. So, you know, there's just chemistry and magic here. Adam Durrett's I mean, I'm a huge Kenny Crows fan. So, like, Durrett's being credited on a bunch of these songs and Babyface, like, sort of orchestrating the whole thing is just like, this album rules. It's so good.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I think that there might be a part of it where if it doesn't mean anything to you and you're trying to capture something, it might be easier because you take off all those thoughts like, well, is this cool? Is this like, representative of me? Like, you know, and that, I think is a tremendous freedom because it's sort of like, you know, we're supposed to make it poppy and it's supposed to be light and so then you can kind of play into. I always feel like, you know, parody or good parody is fueled by like, oh, it's so frustrating. Are you falling for this dumb shit? Like, you know, and it's like, but you're like, you can, you can do the dumb. It's like, yeah, I could do that too. Like, I think that like, like the lead singer Rivers Cuomo is like, I could make hit songs on everything. I know how to do it. I guess I don't want to do it all the time.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's just like, it's also that thing of like, I'm glad you brought up A Star Is Born. Like, if you construct a movie around the rise of a singer, I mean, you know, this, like, the most notoriously hard one to do is about comedians. It's so hard to make something about standup comedy. Like a million different people have tried to make a great stand up comedy movie or TV show and have failed. You've got, you know, Studio 60 trying to do like this SNL thing. And if the comedy inside of the comedy is not working, that's why 30 Rock did work. But like, if the comedy inside the comedy is not working. But you're telling us these are great comedians, then, you know, you're just completely checked out. So the music has to be so good. And they just, like, they really got it really well.

[Paul Scheer]

I think there's something funny about, like, trying to create comedy because it's so specific. I've never really, like, seeing, like, at the end of the day, you could say, oh, that's a poppy song. It may not be my favorite song, but I get. I get why that works. It has a good rhythm to it. But comedy, everyone is a critic, and if it doesn't work for them, they're like, it's not. It's actually not funny. Like, it's like, wait, hold on. Like, you can't say that. Like, I always had an issue when people would be like, oh, screw those. Like, you know, Larry the Cable Guy. I'm like, no, no, no, it's working. Like, the people that are in that stadium like, it. Like, they're not. Like, they're not like, oh, well, we'll laugh at this. We're fine with it. It's like, no, it works. So you have to, like. But it's a funny thing how we write off people. Like, comedy is written off. And not to say that the sketches on Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip were any good. Oh, my God. I remember a moment where. In that movie or not that TV show, I remember a moment in that TV show where, like, one of the characters is talking about how who's on first is the best sketch he's ever seen and gives a copy of who's On First. I was like, this is never happened. This is. No one is referencing Abbott and Costello that is doing a contemporary comedy in the 2000s.

[Joanna Robinson]

It was really tough. That show was really tough.

[Paul Scheer]

It really.

[Joanna Robinson]

It gets so many talented people involved in that very, very tough show.

[Paul Scheer]

I know. And it's like. And you gotta do it. And it's. And it's. You know, it's like Sorkin. It's like, yes, I auditioned for that. And he read with me, and I was like, I gotta get this show. This is gonna be great. And the detail I always remember from that audition was we were knee to knee. Like, I've never done that. Like, so eye to eye. Knee to knee. And he was reading with me, and when I finished, he goes, that's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

How'd that feel?

[Paul Scheer]

It was great. It was great. I did not get the part, but I was told. That's right.

[Joanna Robinson]

I was talking about this the other day with someone. We're Covering Euphoria now, the final season of Euphoria.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

Okay. An incredibly gonzo experience for all concerned. But I don't know if you caught wind of this, but Sydney Sweeney's character gave like a monologue from Antony and Cleopatra. So she's doing Shakespeare on Euphoria.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes.

[Joanna Robinson]

And we were, yeah, my co host and I were sitting there watching it together and we're going like, we're actually. I'm like, is this supposed to be bad or is it supposed to be good? I can't really tell. And I was like, I think the slow pan in means it's supposed to be good. And I think often when, you know, one of my favorite shows ever is this Canadian show, Slings and Arrows, which is about a Shakespearean troupe. And anytime they want to show you someone was really killing it, the camera either like slowly pans in or sort of spins around them. And I'm like, I feel like there's like a thing you do when you're like trying to convey this is good acting right here.

[Paul Scheer]

It's hard. It's hard because you're watching an actor acting like. But this is actually, actually the actor acting well. It's like, oh, I don't know.

[Joanna Robinson]

I'm not sure. Yeah, exactly.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, God.

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[Alan Cumming]

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[Paul Scheer]

You know what I think was, like, so interesting here too, is they make Parker Posey. We love, and she's the best. And I also just love that they go that extra distance to give her this, like, thing of being an outcast in high school. Like, it's such a. I think there's something so fun and related, like she becomes like a very stereotypical mean girl who's like, who then. Or she was a nerdy girl who became a mean girl and just only wants to get them in a bedroom just like to hang out and have friends. It's like, that's her main goal of throwing that party. And I think that that's like, those are those soft spots in this movie. And I know, I agree with you. Like, the romance plot is okay, but that kid who plays the boyfriend, yeah, he's charming, charming. And it's like, it's just enough. Cause it doesn't need to be more than that. It's like, you buy that he's a nice guy and she likes him and God bless. But I do think it's like the fact that the movie can still do that. And I'm always wrestling with how do you do both? How do you balance both? Because I think that people want. They want those experiences even though they're watching a comedy. And Legally Blonde is a perfect example of that. Like, a movie that's like, yeah, we can give you all the jokes, we're giving you all the things, but you're also going to. We're going to give you all the things that are, quote, unquote, cliche as well, that you're. And you're going to go. And you're going to go like, House Bunny is actually. House Bunny is even a better example of that. It's like, it's an Adam Sandler produced movie. It's like, yeah, but you got all that heart in there that you love. And I think that that's something that we lose a little bit in comedy. Judd was really good at that for a long time. Of just giving you like, oh, right, I have to give a shit at the end of the day.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I think, Yeah, I think is the sort of big showdown at the stadium show where Alan Cumming and Parker Posey reveal themselves. Like, is it all a little eye rolly? Yeah. But then it knows it is, and so it all just kind of works. All I ever wanted was to be popular. Tell me, is that so bad?

[Alan Cumming]

Lisa.

[Joanna Robinson]

What did you call me?

[Alan Cumming]

Lisa Snyder. Liffing Lisa.

[Joanna Robinson]

That was my nickname in school.

[Alan Cumming]

Huntington High School Lisa. It's me, Wally. White Ass Wally.

[Joanna Robinson]

White Ass Wally, the albino kid. That's impossible. First of all, he wasn't brave.

[Alan Cumming]

I'm not. I just started talking like that because I thought it would make me more attractive.

[Joanna Robinson]

And the way that these. These three girls are presented, these three women are presented is like, just really good, nice people. Like, right, okay. It's 2001, which is just absolute primo time for, like, fat shaby jokes. There's just like so much. They're everywhere and every, like, anything you put on from that era, you're just like, oh, boy. I didn't realize I was swimming in it all the time.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Robinson]

But like, in this movie, when, like, Parker Posey's characters, like, takes sing one single Pringle, and then she's just like, oh, I'm so fat. What do you weigh? And that's. It's all like, cut. Undercutting that in the absolute thick of it. Like when every other movie is, like, playing into it in a way, this is just sort of slicing into it. And I just really like that.

[Paul Scheer]

And I do think that that's. That all comes down to, like, Kaplan and Elfonte, like, really just being like, great comedy writers. And it's like they really are just trying to find those little things. Like, even the way that the shower scene is not sexualized at all. You have Tara Reid in this shower and what they do with it is so funny with her singing that dumb song and dropping that thing every chance that she. It's such a funny bit. But yeah, it's interesting when you see a movie kind of move away from the jokes or comment on the jokes because you would argue also that a couple months after this, everything really changes. Cause like, 911 happens. And not to put that all in the context of everything is. But 911 does become like this era kind of ends. It's like, oh. Cause it is like this fantastical moment that we're in. Everything is nice. Everything is clean, everything is easy, relatively. And I also feel like this movie just is right on the tail end of the end of that era too. Which is really, I think that people

[Joanna Robinson]

mistake this for a 90s movie because I do think that like 2002, the first 2/3 of 2001 sort of get, you know, that pre 911 moment gets sort of sucked back in. But it's interesting because looking at the fashion, the early aughts fashion in this movie is, you know, pitch perfectly terrible. And thinking about when Y2K happened, you know, I was like a teenager into my early 20s at that time. And when Y2K happens and then we're like, oh, it's the. You know, it's the Willennium. Like, we're in the future.

[Paul Scheer]

I remember that. Yes, we're in the future now.

[Joanna Robinson]

Everything needs to be like, shiny and sparkly and chrome and all this sort of stuff like that. And so it's just sort of like this really intensive moment of like, the future is here, 2000. Here we are. And then. Yeah. And then 911 happens. And right around, like, right after that time, I. I write a. Write and talk about this all the time. Right after 911 happens, we get the first Harry Potter movie and the first Lord of the Rings movie and we really shift into this era of escapism and, and fantasy. Like, it's not just enough to like, give us a blonde who goes to Harvard Law School. Give us like orcs and elves and

[Paul Scheer]

wizards out of this world.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah, absolutely. It's like, bye.

[Paul Scheer]

So, yeah, that's a really interesting. Like that moment is a really interesting thing because I remember, you know, the TRL was such a thing. You know, we got to take over the TRL studios when we were doing Human Giant. Now that was in 2005 and it was already like, it was. I mean, the funniest thing I always remember is like the lowest rated TRL episode ever was TRL Remembers 9 11. Which was like they did a 911 retrospective, like, retrospective. It was like a week later it was like, so it was like TRL.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh my God.

[Paul Scheer]

TRL doing special coverage of 9 11.

[Joanna Robinson]

That's what I want from Carson Daley. That is exactly who the nation looks to you. Carson Daly for some moral guidance.

[Paul Scheer]

When we were in that building, we were passing t of that 911 thing around. Cause it was like, it was. It was like, what do you do? You can't on that set be like, you know, all the audience just sitting there. It's like, it's not. It's not a place to have that conversation. But I do believe that that kind of was the end. And like when we were in the studio it wasn't that it wasn't the same thing. But that night that we were in there, the people gathered around the street and what was so cool about it was like that TRL studio was like a hub in New York where people are like coming to like. Like, I mean it's like we're looking up at celebrity and it was like. It was such a. You know, it felt all. Everything felt like. I don't know, like I feel like us and them in a weird way of like shiny and bright and we're just like these peons and maybe Britney will shake our hand as she walks by. And I think you're right. Like, and then just thinking about post that it's a very different thing. It's just not like, like it just like it. That's like when I remember living in New York City when like Brooklyn became a thing. Like they were like, we're going to Brooklyn, we're doing a comedy, we're seeing music in Brooklyn. And you go out to like these warehouses and it was like. It was a different energy of creation. It's like, it's that book like Meet Me in the Bathroom is very much like the Strokes and everything like that. Like this other era comes to play. So I also feel like, I wonder if some of the backlash of this in the immediacy of it. Cause it's like 9 11's only a couple months after this is like, oh, I don't even wanna go back to that time. Like that time was gross to me. Like I don't like the Instinct, the Backstreet Boys. It's like. And that's why it took a little bit of time to kinda. Yeah. To come back to it.

[Joanna Robinson]

The post 9 11. Not to make this Josie the Pussycat. No, but you know, podcast about 9 11. But that post 911 like hard pivot to like country music and you know, Bush era patriotism and all this sort of stuff like that that like you know, even trickled down to me, who was so res to it is. It's astounding to think about. And it's really. It's a really good point to think about specifically like 2000 to the first few months of 2001 and what that like very specific era meant. We were out of the 90s. The future is bright. Y2K did not crash everything.

[Paul Scheer]

Right? We were so prepared for Y2K. And not prepared for what was like, right around the corner from that.

[Joanna Robinson]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Paul Scheer]

But, you know, I think that just like again, rewatching this and just having such a. It's. To me, I also feel like you brought this up earlier. We also are missing out on these short movies. Like comedies need to live in, I believe, like the, you know, the 89 to 100 minute range. And it makes such a difference. Cause it doesn't get fat. It doesn't. And it's like you're just in there and you're like, great. It's over before it even started in a way. And it's like you leave wanting more. And I feel like whenever I see an old comedy, like, right. That that's the way we used to do it. Just to be like, comedies were under a hundred minutes.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's so funny. Like, my, you know, my job involves a lot of like, you know, TV and film watching and. And I, you know, I have to carve out these windows in order to like, do my homework or whatever.

[Paul Scheer]

How do you do it? Because I'm always. I'm like, I'm always like saving it for the last night. Like, I'm like late at night and I'm watching things like late and I'm trying to fall. I'm falling asleep, I'm waking up. I'm like, it's always. Cause I feel like I'm cheating if I'm doing it during the day. I'm like, I can't watch this during work hours. Even though it is work.

[Joanna Robinson]

It is work. No, this is, this is what I was gonna say. I got home really late last night and I had to prep for a different show that I had to do today. And I was like, I was meant to watch it last night, but I didn't have time to. And so I was like, oh, I gotta get up really early to watch it before this other show I have to do and then I'll come to. So I got up really early and then I fired it up and I was like, oh, this is 90 minutes. I was like, we can knock this out easy. Great. You know.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, when. When I see. How did this get made? Movie at 90 minutes. I' now can I ask you the. The little thing that every now and then I will do as I'll watch it on a little bit faster speed, like a 1.25. Will you. Will you ever do that?

[Joanna Robinson]

The only time I'll do that is if I've been assigned a Netflix show that I'm not very interested In Got it. And I have to watch the whole season and Netflix, like right at the bottom there is like, we can. We can help you do this a little faster.

[Paul Scheer]

Got it.

[Joanna Robinson]

And you know, like, especially if I'm doing one podcast episode on an entire season of television, like, paying attention to my new details is not the assignment there. You're just trying to get a big picture impression of what you watched.

[Paul Scheer]

And sometimes I do find that the 1.25, it's like it's just pushing it a little bit quicker. It's like, it's not like. It's not like that. It's just like. It's just a little pay stuff.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did spend today as part of my prep, listening to this great podcast series called Josie. And the podcast I think is called. And I did listen to that at 1.25 today as I was trying to like cram it in. But Maria Lewis, who did that, that series several years ago and she interviewed like Deb and Harry and Adam Schlesinger and like Kay Hanley and all and Rachel Leigh Cook and all these people. It's a great, like, if you're like, listen to this podcast about just us talk about it. But then like, if you want more, you should go listen to that. It was incredible. But I did listen to that at 1.25.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I will also admit that preparing for this, I was excited and I listened to Best Movie Ever, which is an oral history of Josie and the Pussycats. And I listened to that about a 1.25 to get through the whole. Not just today, but over the last couple of days. And it's a great ride of again, it's everyone talking. And I feel like the interesting thing is whenever you talk about a movie like this, like, well, what was going on? And I think that the trick is not much. They just made a comedy movie. They're like, okay, great. How do we wanna. We see Can't Hardly wait. What should be next? Oh, this is a musical. Cool. We can do something fun here. Oh, we can comment on the commercialization of music, which is. And it's like, there's no like, oh, yeah. We were there and we figured this out. It was like, everything seems so like, oh, yeah, we just put the target logos on the plane and we just shot it there. And you know, and it's like we knew Seth Green and we knew Breckenmeyer and Breckenmeyer was married to Deborah Kaplan. And like, it's like, yeah, we put them in and they improvised. Cause they knew each Other. And, you know, it's like, there's no grand story behind, like, how they did it. It's just like, yeah, we just made this thing that you like, and you want it to be like, oh, what. What was that day like? And people just don't remember.

[Joanna Robinson]

I know. They're like, oh, it was all very pleasant. We had a good time in Toronto. No, what really sort of bums me out about this movie's. This movie flopping is like, so, you know, Deb and Harry make a very Brady sequel and Viva Rock Vegas, you know, like two, whatever, right? Better than they need to be sequels of this kind of. Exactly what you're talking about. This, like, IP to big, big screen. This, like, 60s and 70s nostalgia TV play to the big screen sort of thing they make. Can't Hardly Wait, which is my favorite teen comedy of the 90s. Like, that is just.

[Paul Scheer]

That is my favorite.

[Joanna Robinson]

I love that movie so much. They make Josie and the Pussycats, which I also think is a perfect film. And then I feel like it flopping just sort of like, put them off their game of. Of this exact kind of comedy. Because the movies that they made after Surviving Christmas, Maid of Honor, Leap Year, are all very incredibly straightforward, you know, movies. And I've seen all three of them, and, like, I don't particularly love them, and I. I think because they. They got spooked by people not getting it, and then they haven't, like, really shot for that since, is what it feels like to me.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And I feel like I just saw that recently that was announced that they had a bidding war over a new romantic comedy script that was like, a big sale at Paramount. So I was really excited that that happened because I was wondering about this a little while ago, and I was like, well, what have they done? And this is like, it's a hard thing because you also don't realize, like, there is. It's very real. Director's jail is a thing where it's, like, very hard to get your thing made. And what sucks is like. Like, I think the difference now is, well, it was good. Like, yes, it failed, but it was good, right? And that's a tricky thing. It has this huge cult following. It's only grown. It's like, so they should get the comeback. But I watched some of that, like, Liza on Demand, which was like a YouTube, and I was like, this is actually pretty funny too. Like, it was like, original YouTube show, but you're also like, oh, like that. And I know that, like, Surviving Christmas was completely taken away from them, you know, a thing that they did not feel like they. That they had any control over. And you know, and it's, It's. It's a shame. And you get like, I get protective of that too because it's like, oh, they, they get. You get penalized for making something good. You should only get penalized for making something bad. Like, you know, or like if you

[Joanna Robinson]

make something good and it flops, you know. Yes, I understand why people get skittish around it, but like, I feel like the reputation. Jesse the Pussycats, at least in that sort of cult status fairly quickly rebounded, you know what I mean? Like on the home video front. So, like, I understand, I understand them being in director jail for like a little while, but it should not have lasted as long as it did.

[Alan Cumming]

So.

[Paul Scheer]

And that's why I was so excited to see them like at least like in 2026. They just sold a big script. I'm like, great.

[Joanna Robinson]

Hell yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

Like, that is good. And it's like, hopefully they will make it. And hopefully it will be something that will, you know, I think also bring back a little bit of career appreciation for what they did. Cause I remember also, and I haven't watched it in a long time, but that very Brady sequel is very funny.

[Joanna Robinson]

It's really funny. Like, Viva Rock Vegas is also funny again, they're way better than they needed to be. Does that make sense?

[Paul Scheer]

No.

[Joanna Robinson]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

And look, and that's my own. I was like, I'll never watch Vivalock, but I'm like, oh, well, maybe now I will. Yeah, maybe you should. Yeah. Cause I was like. Cause it's like, it just gives you that kind of thing where like, meh, no, thank you. You know, and it's. And I don't know why that like, that gave me that, but this gives me like I was there opening weekend. I love talking to you about this. This is so great. I hope that people give it a chance to kind of just see it. Because honestly, if for nothing else, Missy Pyle, amazing. Like, it just like it's. Anytime you get a chance to see all these people, these great character actors, just absolutely killing it and is like, I love a movie where it's just chock full of like, oh my gosh, I love that person. And everybody in this is truly that. Well, now that we know that we share watching a little bit of 1.25. Probably me more than you. I do. Let me see. I'm gonna have my little. I'll give you, like. Okay, I'll ask you this Anything you want me to plug as I lead us out of here?

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, no, I think just my day job. Just Ringer podcast.

[Paul Scheer]

All right, well, I love talking to you. I'm so excited that we got to do this. And you can continue to listen to you without me, which is probably even better if you listen to the House of R and Prestige TV podcast on the Ringer Network. I love everything that you do. You can also follow. Joe wrote this on all socials. And that's just. Jo wrote this on all socials. Thank you so much for being here.

[Joanna Robinson]

Oh, my God. Thank you for having me, Paul.

[Alan Cumming]

Excellent work, Fiona. These kids will never know what hit them.

[Joanna Robinson]

And neither will you.

[Alan Cumming]

I'm sorry, what was that?

[Joanna Robinson]

Huh? What?

[Alan Cumming]

You just said something.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I didn't.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes, you did.

[Joanna Robinson]

No, I didn't.

[Alan Cumming]

Yes, you did. I said, these kids will never know what hit him. And then you said, and neither will you.

[Joanna Robinson]

I did.

[Alan Cumming]

We all heard you.

[Paul Scheer]

Thank you so much. Jo, make sure that you are watching her over at the Ringer. I mean, she's on every great show over there. And I do love her book, the MCU the Reign of Marvel Studios. Excellent, Excellent. She is just. I love her. Anyway, follow her on Instagram at Joe wrote this. Or at her website. Jo wrote this. And that's J O, not J O E. So Jo wrote this. Dot com. All right, people, you're probably wondering, Paul, what else do you have to tell us? Well, guess what? We got shirts. That's right. Unspooled has new bespoke shirts. And they're fun and they're different and they're just a little bit left to center. Not just a normal unspooled shirt. No, these are a little bit more fan favorites, I think. I mean, you have been buying them, so I'm excited about that. If you have ideas for our shirts, let us know. We maybe will make one of your ideas as well. But you can go to unspooledpod.com and just go to our merch store or just go to teepublic.com unspooled to see all of our amazing designs. If you're following us on social media, there'll be links there as well. Well, speaking of following us on social media, have you signed up for our YouTube channel yet? It's YouTube.com getunspooled. That's right, etunspooled. We have a brand new web series premiering this summer, and I am so excited about it. We have our first couple episodes done and it's gonna be Very, very different from what this show is. So get there first. Make sure that you have staked a claim. So when we launch our first episode, you'll get that little ding, ding, ding. I don't know if it does a ding, ding, ding, but you'll get some information. And if you want to know more about Josie and the Pusscast, because I have a lot of research, you can check out our substack, which is also for free. Just go to substack.com and you can get a big dose of everything that you need to know about Josie and the Pussycats. All right, people, you're probably wondering, Paul, what do you have next week? Well, we got a real treat for you. A classic. That's right, 1990s Die Hard 2. And we're gonna be talking with a person who knows how to mix action and comedy and so much more. It is the one and only Jorma Taccone from Lonely Island. He's been on SNL as a writer and a director. He directed MacGruber and Popstar. And his latest film, over your dead Body, is in theaters now, is on vod. Now. I am so excited to break down Die Hard 2, a movie that for long stopped. I thought was superior to Die Hard one. Yes, I've changed that opinion, but it's worthy of a bigger conversation. So next week, Die Hard 2, we'll see you then. Unspooled is produced by Amy Nicholson, Paul Scheer, Molly Reynolds and Harry Nelson. Sound engineered by Cory Barton, music by Devin Bryant, episode art by Kim Troxall, show art by Lee Jamison and social media production by Zoe Applebaum. This is a Rome production. See you next week. Bye for now.

[Alan Cumming]

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[Alan Cumming]

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[Alan Cumming]

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