Team America: World Police

Summary

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Unspooled: "Team America: World Police"

Podcast Hosts: Paul Scheer & Amy Nicholson
Episode Date: April 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

Paul and Amy take on "Team America: World Police" (2004), Trey Parker and Matt Stone’s audacious marionette action satire, unpacking its technical ambition, cultural legacy, and endlessly polarizing politics. The duo explore how the film lampoons American interventionism, Hollywood activism, and action movie formulas—all via marionette absurdity—and debate why the movie continues to provoke, amuse, and offend over 20 years later.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Place of "Team America" in Modern Movie Canon

• Pulling from Letterboxd, IMDb & NYT essentials, the podcast justifies why "Team America" is worthy of discussion—even absent from traditional greatest-film lists, it’s cited by sources like National Review as an essential conservative satire, though its true political colors are up for debate.
• Paul (04:56): “This movie, I think, is held in such high regard for the technical achievement of it. Like they have created so many cultural moments besides South Park…”

Trey Parker & Matt Stone’s Satirical Legacy

• Parker & Stone’s comedic reach: from South Park to "Book of Mormon," they have continually reshaped American satire while lampooning all sides.
• The origins of "Team America" are traced, including failed plans for a George W. Bush action movie and a puppet parody of "The Day After Tomorrow." Their longstanding frustration with Hollywood actors and action tropes fuels much of the film’s characterizations. (08:42–10:27)
• Notable Quote:
  Amy (07:09): “They decide this is just way too much Bush.”

Production Feats & Nightmares

• The astonishing six-month production window: principal photography (with marionettes!) began April 2004; the film premiered in October.
• Countless technical details—custom puppet mechanisms, hand-ground eyeglasses for Kim Jong Il’s puppet, massive sets, multiple stages, and 20-hour days.
• Paul (38:11): “I mean they had three dozen marionette operators and they were using five cameras simultaneously... Matt Stone was working 20-hour days and using sleeping pills to go to bed.”

Satire: Political, Social, and Universal Targets

• The film’s brilliance, and its controversy, is its refusal to pick a clear side—it lampoons American warmongering, leftist activism, and Hollywood self-importance with equal glee.
• The infamous “Film Actors Guild” (F.A.G.), Kim Jong Il, liberal and rightwing hypocrisy—no one is safe.
• Notable Quote:
  Amy (17:11): “I would have put this very high on the list of like the high screw you to conservative movies.”
• The movie’s “everyone’s a target” philosophy
  • Paul (11:37): “The beauty of South Park and the beauty of puppets is you can constantly change and evolve the script… That kind of ability to think on your feet…is the reason why South Park…feels of the moment.”
  • Amy (24:29): “They basically made an Eddington.”

The Danger and Nuance of Hollywood Activism

• The film (and podcast) wrestle with the phenomenon of actors becoming the only public conduits for activism due to failures in institutional media.
• Parker & Stone’s public stance against “vote or die” type campaigns by celebrities (31:24–32:13).
• Amy (27:03): “We have become too dependent on actors because nobody else is being listened to.”
• Paul (28:17): “Is Sean Penn more worthy than Alec Baldwin? Like, who knows?”

Navigating Offense in Satire

• The hosts question what's truly offensive, and argue that genuine satire should offend everyone, including the audience.
• The difference between punching down and holding a mirror up to collective American ignorance (“cobblestones made of croissants,” deranged mispronunciations, etc.).
• Amy (53:16): “If you want it to offend other people, you have to accept being offending you.”
• Paul (34:05): “There’s a lot of things at play that you have to unpack, and you can’t take everything at face value.”

Monumental Moments & Classic Scenes

• Puppet Sex Scene: The headache it caused with the MPAA (submitted 9 times), and its juxtaposition with the lack of concern by censors over violence (41:57–43:16).
  • Paul (43:16): “Trey Parker said, you know, we blew Jeanine Garofalo’s head clean off. But the MPAA had no issue with that. They were more concerned about the positions of the dolls having sex...”
• Dicks, Pussies, and Assholes Speech: Considered one of the greatest monologues, though Paul notes separation between character and filmmaker intent (35:40–36:34).
• Iconic Parody Songs:
  • “America, Fuck Yeah”: A gleeful skewering of jingoistic power ballads, with its “slow” reprise for pathos.
    • (56:34–57:03)
      Trey Parker: “The ghettos. Fuck, yeah. Well, my. Yeah. Baseball. Yeah… NFL rock and roll…the Internet, slavery. Yeah.”
  • “Everyone Has AIDS”: A deadpan pastiche of Broadway’s “Rent,” undercutting the pop commodification of tragedy.
    • (58:52–59:31)
      Trey Parker: “...the gays and the straights and the whites and the spades, everyone has AIDS...”

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Timestamps for Notable Segments

• 00:56–02:38: Cat banter and “Team America” viewing experiences abroad
• 04:02–07:27: Trey & Matt’s pop culture impact; origins of the movie
• 10:27–13:56: Animating with puppets; Thunderbirds influence
• 14:39–15:45: Production timeline; nine MPAA submissions for R rating
• 17:11–18:57: The puzzle of the film’s politics and cross-spectrum satire
• 24:29–25:44: The film as a blunt psychological profile of America
• 31:24–32:13: Media & election context; “vote or die” celebrity campaigns
• 34:05–34:49: Satirical devices, cultural blindness, “America as center” jokes
• 41:57–43:16: MPAA, violence vs. puppet sex, censorship absurdities
• 45:19–47:41: “Pearl Harbor” song, Jerry Bruckheimer action tropes
• 50:29–51:23: 9/11 hyperbole lampooned (“9/11 times 100”)
• 53:16–53:22: Acknowledgment that offense is intrinsic to this level of satire
• 56:34–57:03: “America, Fuck Yeah” slow reprise and layers of musical parody
• 58:52–59:31: “Everyone Has AIDS!” and critique of musicals’ feel-good activism
• 69:40–71:41: Sean Penn’s open letter to Trey & Matt
• 72:21–72:38: Trey & Matt’s acid-fueled Oscars appearance (in drag)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Parker & Stone’s targets:
  Paul (17:11): “I think whatever your political ideology is, you can see the right being dumb or the left being dumb. It just comes to your perspective. I think that’s kind of the genius of the film.”

• Balancing biting comedy and sincerity:
  Amy (59:32): “The basic structure of a movie that we’re watching is pretty sincere...they realized, oh no, we have to get rid of all of these jokes. Because the jokes don’t make sense coming from these puppets, that then the joke actually is just these marionettes trying to do the straight drama.”

• On the legacy of pushing boundaries:
  Paul (58:15): “We should be pushing more of these boundaries. Like yes, South Park still exists, but wow, for this to be a major motion picture, for that to be a Broadway show like we are, we should be pushing more of these boundaries.”

• On the film’s technical challenges:
  Paul (38:11): “...they had three dozen marionette operators and they were using five cameras simultaneously to capture the scenes...so many different sets here... working 20 hour days and using sleeping pills to go to bed at night. Like it was just this battle to get it done.”

• On satire and audience complicity:
  Amy (53:16): “It’s sort of the thing like if you want it to offend other people, you have to accept being offending you.”

• On media’s overreliance on celebrity activism:
  Amy (27:03): “We have become too dependent on actors because nobody else is being listened to.”

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Final Thoughts

Paul and Amy agree that "Team America: World Police" is a rare, enduring piece of outrageous, technically dazzling satire that dares to offend everyone and expose the contradictions of American culture, the glibness of Hollywood, and the bankruptcy of action-movie heroics—all while making you laugh, cringe, and maybe think twice.

The conversation is rich, irreverent, and nuanced—just like the movie itself.

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Next Episode:
The hosts announce a pivot to "The Truman Show" next week, inspired by the new season of "Jury Duty".

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For more from Paul & Amy:
Check the Unspooled Substack for deep dives and community discussions.

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Transcript

[Amy Nicholson]

The year is 2004. All right, team, that's it.

[Paul Scheer]

We've got a job to do.

[Amy Nicholson]

Let's go police the world.

[Trey Parker]

America, America. Fuck yeah.

[Amy Nicholson]

The movie team. America, World Police. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Unspooled.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, welcome to Unspooled. This is a podcast about good movies, critical hits, fan favorites, must sees, and in case you missed EMS, we have

[Amy Nicholson]

covered the AFI top 100, and now we are checking off movies from three major the Letterboxd top 250 films with the most fans, the IMDb top 250, and the New York Times 1000 essential films.

[Paul Scheer]

And, Amy, we will also, as always, be chasing our own curiosity. That's right. Wherever we want to go, we will go. Because we're rebels. We're renegades. I'm Paul Scheer. I'm an actor, a writer, a director, and I once worked with a puppet cat, and it was a nightmare.

[Amy Nicholson]

Did you really? What kind of a cat?

[Paul Scheer]

It was for a TV show called Meow tv. And, I mean, it was just a generic tabby.

[Amy Nicholson]

Oh, just some cat.

[Paul Scheer]

Is that a kind.

[Amy Nicholson]

It is. It is. It is weird. When my boyfriend and I are jerks, we call them some cats. But we also are aware that we're being total jerks. This is just because we're assholes with Maine Coons. We have Maine Coons. We lord our Maine Coons over. But that's totally unfair. The first cat I ever fell in love with was a little calico.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, look at that. Well, I'm gonna tell you, this puppet cat was a real pain in the ass.

[Amy Nicholson]

I believe it. I mean, four legs, that's even harder than two legs. I wanna apologize again to all cats out there. I am the baddie. I am the team Maine Coon world jerk about cats. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I love all cats. I love every single cat. I go on walks and say hi to all the cats. Every cat is dope.

[Paul Scheer]

Are there cats out on walks?

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, there's a couple cats on my Sunday walk that always specifically come out to say hi to me, including this little one with a Hitler mustache.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow, this is opening up so many questions. Now I do want to just. Just drill down. Are the cats also on walks or are you walking and cats approaching via a window or. I don't even know. Are there outdoor cats, like in yards?

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of outdoor cats in Atwater. Just chilling. And there is one cat who does seem to be on a walk. That's the one with the mustache.

[Paul Scheer]

Okay.

[Amy Nicholson]

He's doing his own thing. The others come out, say hi. He like crosses the street every time and is like, what's up? And then he keeps walking.

[Paul Scheer]

Interesting.

[Amy Nicholson]

It's really impressive. Anyways, hello. Hi, I'm Amy Nicholson. I'm the film critic for the Los Angeles Times. I was thinking, the first time that I saw Team America, I was at a hostel in Romania watching it with a bunch of people from around the world who were all laughing hysterically.

[Paul Scheer]

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[Amy Nicholson]

K Pop Demon Hunters, Haja Boy's breakfast meal and Hunt Tricks Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[Trey Parker]

It is an honor to.

[Amy Nicholson]

No, it's our honor.

[Paul Scheer]

It is our larger honor.

[Amy Nicholson]

No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. Ba da ba ba ba. And participate in McDonald's while supplies last unspooled.

[Paul Scheer]

You know, this is one of those movies that I think is referenced so much, but I don't think I saw it more than once. And that may be just a me thing, but I feel like the south park guys have this ability to create these cultural moments. Like people will be talking about Book of Mormon forever. As a matter of fact, I think just last week there was like a Book of Mormon night on Broadway. Like just a celebration of the music. Even though it's still, I believe, on Broadway, but they brought back a lot of the original cast. This movie, I think, is held in such high regard for the technical achievement of it. Like they have created so many cultural moments besides south park and yet that still is going on. I'm kind of blown away by them when I think of what they have accomplished and how quietly they've done it.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. I mean, quietly. For a show that just seemed like it immediately got headlines when it showed up and yet has just persisted. And their career has taken them to so many different corners, so many different types of mediums, so many types of acting. And I was watching this movie for the first time since 2004 and thinking, you know what? I always imagine Trey Parker and Matt Stone as these topical guys, you know, that like, oh, South Park. They're making an episode that has to do this week with what happened last week. We're on top of every single thing. One month before the presidential election of 2004, they make puppets of the presidential candidates, George Bush and John Kerry, and then decide to take them out. And I think that was such a smart move because, honestly, this movie felt timeless.

[Paul Scheer]

I know. And rewatching it, I think that's one of the best parts about it because it's really more of like an ethos. I think it captures something that is so American without labeling it in any way, without picking sides. I mean, in many respects, I could see a lot of people who are incredibly right wing loving this. And the same for people that are more liberal. Like, it kind of hits both sides perfectly. And there's a lot of debate about, well, did it cross the line? We'll get into all that, but let's just kind of give you the context. The year is 2004. It's been three years since the 911 attacks and the beginning of America's global war on terror. And over a year since President George W. Bush declared mission accomplished on a banner with stars and stripes. Wow, such quaint times.

[Amy Nicholson]

Sure did it. They sure accomplished it. Meanwhile, Trey Parker met Soto South Park. They have been thinking of making an action movie. And before September 11th, they were planning to call it George W. Bush and the Secret of the Glass Tiger. And it was gonna be this Indiana Jones style adventure where George Bush was just gonna, you know, cruise around being

[Paul Scheer]

a tough guy, you know, and they've got the clout in town to do whatever they want. Trey was just nominated for an Oscar for the song Blame Canada in the movie South Bigger, Longer and Uncut. Great song, by the way. They've written amazing songs and I forgot a lot of the songs in this one, which we will play some clips of very soon.

[Amy Nicholson]

But after the attacks and after the war, that tone of just like, oh, George Bush bumbling around, having some fun, being a renegade, it doesn't fit anymore. And besides, they are also already doing another sitcom about George Bush that's called that's my Bush. We're gonna touch on how that came to be in just a second. But they decide this is just way too much Bush.

[Trey Parker]

He's the president in residence. He's kind of in charge. He's got the whole country saying, that's my Bush. Life is hard. That's the price of fame. When you're president, everyone knows your. Hey, what's that thing? It's my bus. I can't believe he's actually in the White House. That's our moon. That's my bus.

[Paul Scheer]

Amy. I have forgotten about that show, and in my mind, I don't remember if it was good or not in that clip. It's hard to tell. I just remember it happened and I'm still amazed that got on the air.

[Amy Nicholson]

Well, yeah. This takes me so much to the headspace of being sentient in 2000, because part of the buildup of the suspense of the election of 2000, which now appears incredibly pivotal and changed history dramatically, was that people felt like it didn't really matter who was going to win. Everybody was the same. Didn't matter left or right. George Bush, Al Gore. The big drama was the south park guys had committed that they were going to do a sitcom about whoever won the presidency. And so the real fallout of the election was just going to be, who is the sitcom going to be about? And for the record, they were planning on it probably being about gore up until 3pm on election day.

[Paul Scheer]

Wow. I would like to have seen that show. Now, besides the Bush show and the presidential sitcoms, they also are just, I guess, fans of dumb stuff. And that led them to getting an early script for Roland Emmerich's disaster film, the Day After Tomorrow. That's the one about global warning. I believe a plane escapes like an iceberg or falls off a cliff. There is some insane imagery in that movie. Anyway, they read this script and they're like, oh, my God, wouldn't it be hilarious to shoot this movie with puppets word for word and release it on the same day? Kind of like the Forbidden Dance and Lombada. That kind of classic same. That kind of classic rivalry. But their lawyers convinced them not to do that. It was a dumb idea. They would get heavily sued. They cannot just steal a script. But the puppet idea comes about for a couple of reasons. One, they think it's gonna be easier than working with actors, which they think is too time consuming and annoying, which, you know, I'm a little offended about that.

[Amy Nicholson]

Oh, if you're offended by that, just wait till you Hear what else they do and say about actors in the rest of this episode. And of course, that's also coming from doing south park, where we're with cartoons and not people. Lets them work really fast. And they like this idea of just like banging it out, not worrying about trailers, not worrying about egos. And as Matt makes jokes, our cast will be deliberately made of wood. But that will only be taking to extreme what is evident in many Hollywood movies right now. Sort of mean. But Also the early 2000s was kind of a bad point of them trying to make all of these movie stars happen who had no personality.

[Paul Scheer]

I also think, and I just want to add my own perspective here, that the beauty of south park and the beauty of puppets is that you can constantly change and evolve the script. And because they are voicing a lot of the characters, they don't need to call anyone in deal with any sort of schedules. They actually set the tone for Human Giant when we were doing that on mtv, because they would deliver episodes right as it was airing. Like, you could get it in the machine to then broadcast live on, on the network. It was. They set the precedent and then we started to follow that, which was like, we would deliver episodes at like 4pm and they would air at 10 that night. Like, it's like that small little window that you can hit and that kind of ability to think on your feet and get it in in the last minute really is the reason why South Park, I think, always feels of the moment, especially for an animated show, which a lot of the times you don't realize this, but animated shows are like years ahead. Like, I remember I was pitching to Netflix, you know, a handful of years ago, and like, we have an open spot in 2028. I was like, wow, okay, got it.

[Amy Nicholson]

I mean, and speaking of time consuming animation, they're also really, really inspired by this 1965 TV series called Thunderbirds that was almost all done in basically the same style that you're going to see when you see the movie. Just this semi realistic, very elaborate puppeteering where the puppets don't look like Sesame street characters, they just look like people. Fairly real proportions, fairly real noses, slightly big eyes, but just because they have to look around and blink. And they actually reach out to Paramount to say, hey, what if we just do our version of thunderbolts? But then they hear that Thunderbolts is already being made with people, human people, not puppets at all. And it's gonna star Bill Paxton and Ben Kingsley.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, my God. That never got made, did it?

[Amy Nicholson]

Oh, it did we're gonna talk about that, too.

[Paul Scheer]

Oh, man. Do you remember Thunderbirds? Because that was the cartoon that I had to sit through when I was a kid. Like, it was a boring cartoon that. And there was, like, another one with, like, Jonny Quest. I hated those. They were just like. They were action cartoons. They weren't funny, and I couldn't get my head around it. Like, why do I want to watch puppets do action?

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. Thunderbirds is just these kind of puppets flying planes.

[Paul Scheer]

So basically, with the Thunderbirds property out of their hands, they decide to write their own story. It's inspired by all the dumb action movies that they love, hate, including Top Gun, Pearl harbor, and. And this 1982 movie which I also love called Megaforce, which they both think is horrible and great. Megaforce, an elite compact fighting unit armed with the most sophisticated weapons ever seen on a movie screen. The mission? To preserve freedom and justice and battle the forces of evil.

[Trey Parker]

The good guys always win, even in the 80s.

[Paul Scheer]

Megaforce.

[Amy Nicholson]

So Team America, World Police. It's about an actor named Gary who was recruited to join a military counterterrorism squad by the squad's leader, Spotswood. The other members are a psychologist named Lisa, an empath named Sarah, a jock named Joe, and a martial arts expert named Chris, who, like Matt and Trey, really hates actors and absolutely hopes that Paul Scheer is taking this personally. Trey does most of the voices, by the way. He's also technically the director, and Matt Stone is technically the assistant director, but they're just doing lots of everything.

[Paul Scheer]

First, they fight a group of terrorists called the Durka Durkas. Then they fight North Korea's Kim Jong Il and a couple. Well, actually a bunch of liberal Hollywood actors, including Sean Penn, Alec Baldwin, Susan Sarandon, and of course, very famously, Matt Damon, all who have sided with Kim Jong Il. That Team America are the actual terrorists.

[Amy Nicholson]

And lots of places around the world get blown up. Paris, Cairo, the Panama Canal. There is a lot of puppet vomiting. There's some hardcore puppet sex. So much puppet sex that they have to submit the film to the mpa. So much sex that they have to submit the film to the MPAA nine times to get an R rating instead of an NC17.

[Paul Scheer]

And let me just tell you, if you think that was time intensive, that's nothing compared to the movie, because this movie took a very long time to officially get underway. I mean, years. Matt and Trey claim that it got shut down and started back up again at least three times.

[Amy Nicholson]

And they even agreed to waive their millions of dollars in fees to make sure that they had the budget to get it made properly the way they really felt it had to be done.

[Paul Scheer]

Now, shockingly, they wound up starting to shoot the film April of 2004, and they released it in theaters just six months later on October 15th. Now there's something really interesting about that because in the history of cinema, that is such a small window. I think that Star Trek Generations might have the shortest period of time from start of production to theater release. So that's the one feather in its cap there, but this probably is coming in right underneath it.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, six months. I mean, that's usually when a film would have wrapped. By then maybe they'd still be doing a little sound mixing. It's insane.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it cost $32 million. Not that much. It made 50. But where it really indented in culture were the headlines because it made people very angry, including Sean Penn and now Paul.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yes, the live action Thunderbirds movie also came out that same year. It came out in July while they were finishing. And financially it did the reverse. It cost $57 million. It made 28 million. I have never seen it. It looks awful. Here's a clip.

[Trey Parker]

In the year 2010, billionaire and former astronaut Jeff Tracy took his five sons to an uncharted tropical island where they built the secret headquarters of International Rescue, an organization dedicated to helping those in need. Whenever disaster strikes. They have come to be known by the name they gave their incredible machines.

[Amy Nicholson]

Thunderbirds.

[Trey Parker]

Al, in my office now.

[Amy Nicholson]

They're so busted. Now, 2Americaopolis is not on any of our lists, but the National Review Online, the very conservative outlet, did Name it number 24 in its list of the best conservative movies, which I think is a really interesting place to start talking about this film, because I was astonished. I would have put this very high on the list of like the high screw you to conservative movies.

[Paul Scheer]

See, that's exactly what I was talking about. I think whatever your political ideology is, you can see the right being dumb or the left being dumb. It just comes to your perspective. I think that's kind of the genius of the film. And I know that that also is a big problem with the film because a lot of people felt like the point of view was a little bit all over the place. I mean, the fact that like Michael Moore is a villain in this movie,

[Amy Nicholson]

you know, Michael Moore is a suicide bomber in this movie who is also covered in mustard.

[Paul Scheer]

And I don't think the movie really. I don't know if the movie cares to be fair and balanced in its. I think it's just them attacking what they want to attack. I don't think it has a lot of political intent behind it as much as it is just like a balls to the wall. We are gonna say and do whatever we want. It feels like, how much can we get away with? And yes, it's offensive and yes, it has things that you could probably label as racist and homophobic. There are a lot of things here, and I think that when we talk about this movie, I want to kind of put the debate on that a little bit on the back burner because I do feel like they're pushing boundaries. It's a different time. And I think you can get really lost in the sauce here a little bit. You know, I think that the way people talk about Blazing Saddles, like, oh, you could never make that again. I would argue that this would be maybe the movie that you could never make again. More than that. Right? Because I think that this is.

[Amy Nicholson]

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Trey Parker]

UNSPOOLed.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. I think it's like kids behaving badly. Right? I feel like. And there's something fun about that and I don't want to call it irresponsible, but I think that that's what we're watching.

[Amy Nicholson]

Well, I think what we're watching is a movie that exists, I would say almost as like a psychological profile of America without making an argument about how America should be. And I think if anything, it's just saying, here's what you guys are like and I'm not gonna tell you how to do better. Cuz I am also an American and I have no idea myself. I just see this and I think that the world is weird. I mean, somehow this movie manages to be, I think, both divisive and uniting in that everybody can kind of like how it's divisive towards somebody else. I mean, in a way they basically made an Eddington. This is an Eddington. Right?

[Paul Scheer]

Right.

[Amy Nicholson]

Where it's like, hey, I see what's happening in this country and why everybody's at each other' throats and why we're acting psychotic. I don't know how to fix it, but can I just say where all of the problems are and they are everywhere.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And I think it is capturing this moment where Americans are forcing their ideology and their weaponry on anyone who was against them. And this idea of like, who is a terrorist and why they are a terrorist and this is the beginning of. Not the beginning, but it's a moment where actors are speaking out. Right. So it is attacking, I think, three different things at once, which is like American interventionism, political activism and action movies. Right. It's everything. And I feel like where people are upset about this film is, well, but they're on our side, right? Or at least I would say people who consider themselves maybe liberal or progressive, like, well, why are they attacking that person? And I don't think that they get too caught up with that. The way that you were talking about. They would have made a sitcom about Gore or Bush. It didn't make a difference. They were just going to do this idea. The idea is king.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. It almost feels kind of luxurious to be in that position of saying everyone sucks. Kind of luxurious and also lazy and smart. I feel a gazillion different ways about it because, yeah, I want somebody to take us out. I want somebody to fight for what I personally think is right. But then I'm also aware that I'm saying, cross that line. Sure. Oh, but don't cross that line. That's my special protective line. You do have to be in kind of like a comfortable situation to say, eh, they all suck and whatever happens, happens. But they are fairly accurate in a lot of it. Although, I don't know, I go back and forth on attacking actors for speaking out, because they're attacking the actors themselves for speaking out, that they think it's really narcissistic of the actors themselves to say, we alone can help save this. We're really important.

[Trey Parker]

What the world needs is an international advisory committee who truly understands global politics, namely us. The time has come for us to start using our acting talents in a different way. Yes, we can use our powers to change the world. We will persuade everyone to drive hybrid cars and stop smoking. If we focus our acting on global politics, we can change everything and stuff.

[Amy Nicholson]

But on the flip side, what I feel now, you know, two decades later, is that it's not as though. I feel as though we should be looking for actors to save us, but that the media system is so broken that actors are one of the only people who can say something that will wind up in headlines. And we have become too dependent on actors because nobody else is being listened to. I would love it if we were listening to experts and an expert could say something that would make headlines. But it doesn't work out that way. You know, like Billie Eilish makes headlines and it's frustrating.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I think, you know, I worked with Jane Fonda when we were doing this, I think it was called Fire Drill Fridays, where every Friday for over a month, people were getting arrested on the Capitol steps. And she knew that the best way to get attention to her climate change policies was making sure that every week famous people got arrested, it would be on tmz, Me and young Sheldon. That was the week that I was there, you know, and then the week before. Thank you very much. You know, Ted Danson and Martin Sheen like it. You know, you have to get people where they're at, and in many respects.

[Amy Nicholson]

Exactly. And I don't blame the actors for that at all. I blame the media. But, yes, I think the actors feel the responsibility to step up and do something if they're the only people who can get attention.

[Paul Scheer]

And I think that they are mocking this idea of actors who maybe don't speak out or are just repeating what they're hearing. I mean, there's a nuance to it as well. Right? Like, I guess the point of view is. And this is no offense to this person I'm going to mention, but, like, do we care what Liv Tyler says? Do we care what Alec Baldwin says? Like, is Sean Penn more worthy than Alec Baldwin? Like, who knows? I mean, obviously, Sean Penn makes the Academy Awards. He was in the Ukraine. Like, does he need to be in the Ukraine? I don't know. I don't know. And. And I agree with what you're saying, too. But I also think, isn't that what south park does? I mean, south park is constantly criticizing people in a funny way. They are calling out, you know, hypocrisy in media. They're the ones who finally pointed the finger at Scientology in a very public way. Like, that was huge. No one was able to do that before they did that, you know, and, you know, they talk about religion, they talk about gun violence, they talk about COVID 19. Actually, in many respects, as they've gotten older, they are part of the fag. I mean, right, because they are the people who are coming hard at Trump. And whether it's just, you know, having Trump in this current season of south park showing his, like, little tiny penis and all that sort of stuff. Like, they are doing it, they're doing it in a different way. They're not sitting there preaching, like, how you should think or how you should act, but they are definitely constantly engaging with these topics. And that's always been what south park has done.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, I mean, that's true. And when you say effigy, by the way, you mean, like, the fictional thing? That they call it here, like the Film Actors Guild, which they definitely use to be the rudest acronym on the planet. I mean, you could say they do an exaggerated version of what frustrates me sometimes in the media, which is the both sidesism, but their both sides is so big and funny that at least it doesn't feel kind of perfidious the way that I sometimes think it does when they're like, oh, we're just disappointed and blah, blah, blah. And it feels like they're making up reasons to be mad at one side versus the other in the news or to kind of say, like, oh, well, my quibble, though, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I find that to be really frustrating. At least if it's like, large and big and out there, it's something. And also, you're right. We should give them the grace of also many things happening that I think are kind of contributing to this worldview. I mean, for one, the Team America guys, Trey and Matt, they wind up in this media crossfire where everybody's mad at them because in the lead up to this film, as they're promoting it, because this election is happening, everybody is asking them how they're feeling about the election or how they think this film is going to affect the election, or is this film timed to come out in October right before the election for any sort of a purpose. They're getting asked about it on 60 Minutes, like here. The release of a political parody a few weeks before Election Day has some people wondering if the filmmakers are trying to influence the. The election.

[Trey Parker]

We don't think anyone's going to come out of this movie going, oh, well, now I'm going to vote for Bush, or, you know, now I'm going to vote for car. And if we think that if anyone, you know, would come out of this movie changing the way they were going to vote, they shouldn't be voting.

[Amy Nicholson]

And they're taking a lot of heat because they do this interview with Rolling Stone where they're talking about how they really don't like these ads that he was then called Puff Daddy, that Puff Daddy was doing in the media where he was telling people you had to vote or die. And they were saying, listening to a celebrity saying vote or die is like a danger to democracy because that just means you're telling people who aren't that informed to go out and vote. And if you're uninformed in going voting, if you're just voting based on emotion, maybe you shouldn't vote. Maybe only the people who know stuff should vote. And that was their argument, but it got spun into them saying that nobody should vote or voting is for losers.

[Paul Scheer]

And I think this is the issue we have all the time, which is satire is hard for people to digest. It's the reason why Eddington doesn't kind of connect with so many people. Because I also think, you know, Ari Aster steps back and goes, you guys figure it out. I'm not gonna tell you what I think or what I feel. And it allows, but in a way,

[Amy Nicholson]

expecting me to figure out is what I'm saying you shouldn't be doing.

[Paul Scheer]

Exactly.

[Amy Nicholson]

I'm a filmmaker.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, exactly. And I feel like people are looking to them because they have this track record of being funny and being able to lampoon anything, and they expect them to have a very clean idea. But I think what they're attacking is fine and. Right. Like, I'm not offended that this group, this fag group, the film actors group, is, you know, in bed with North Korea, because I think it is showing the dangers of not really understanding geopolitics. We have moved away from experts across the board to commentators. And that's on. That's just in general.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. And then the commentators have moved around from, like, actually being commentators who might know a little bit to just being who can scream the loudest and seem the most upset.

[Paul Scheer]

And I think that because this movie isn't nuanced, it's just big, bold. You know, you run into these things where it's like, okay, let's talk about, you know, Kim Jong, you know, Ill. Like, his voice is. I mean, that's a. Is that racist? Sure, I think you can make that argument. But then I also feel like it's the view through the eyes of maybe an action movie director, like the way that the terrorists speak, you know, they. It's. I feel like there's a lot of things at play that you have to unpack, and you can't take everything at face value.

[Amy Nicholson]

No, you're right, because they are really trying to make a point that when they go around the world, this is how Americans at large see the world. You know, every time they show up in a city, they're like, this city, by the way, is 3,635 miles east of the USA. You know, that USA is always the center point. USA is the fulcrum, where everything gets measured from. And so when you're in Paris and you're looking around, it is all like, the Arc de Triomphe and the Eiffel Tower and Croissants in the windows and croissants on the freaking cobblestones. The cobblestones are made of croissants. The cobblestones are made of croissants. Because it's just like our lens and how the world looks if we haven't been. Because a lot of Americans don't have passports. And it would really be great if it was easier and we all did and got to travel more.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's important to see the world. And I think that when Americans are coming into these worlds, they are destroying it. Right? And everyone is destroying it. And I feel like there's also an argument to be made that like, you know, Kim Jong Il's whole idea is to basically send the world into a spiral so everyone is completely alone and abandoned and is revolting against whoever is left. It's just destroying society. Right. There's a lot of big ideas here. And I think that if you want to find a way to critique it, you can. I know that, like, the big thing that I remember people being upset about is like the dicks, pussies and assholes speech, which I think is one of the funniest monologues ever.

[Amy Nicholson]

I didn't even pull it. Cause I was like, this is too foul. But it's so good.

[Paul Scheer]

But I mean, right there is this idea of, you know, there's three types of people in this world and that's a point of view of a character that we don't even know. I don't think think that the movie is saying that that's the right point of view. But there's so many points of view. And I think that this movie does walk all those different lines. Like, what are we trying to do? What are we trying to say? Everybody thinks they're right, and that's the other part of it. And when everyone is just operating on a point of view of I am right, everybody else is wrong, you're never gonna make any forward momentum. You're never gonna learn about a culture, you're never gonna change anything within a culture because you're not listening in very little simple terms. You're just blowing shit up. And that's really what I think. If you want to really look at it from a big point of view, that's what I would say this movie shows people aren't listening to each other.

[Amy Nicholson]

Well, yeah, and they are blowing stuff up. I mean, I love how they make that point just like straight away in the get go when we're in Paris for the first time. And that is Such a good fake out, by the way, when the movie starts and you see a really janky puppet in front of a really janky backdrop and then it's pulls out and you're suddenly like, oh my God, they really did this. They really made all of these flowers and mimes and butterflies. There are so many cars. Like their vision of puppeteering is just astonishing. The ambition of this movie, I heard apparently when they showed the first clips of this movie to the Paramount executives, that's exactly how they did it. And when an executive saw that janky marinette at the very beginning, he yelled, oh my God, they fucked us. And then baom there was the reveal. But it's spectacular looking.

[Paul Scheer]

Spectacular looking and very hard, right? That's one of the things that when you look at the stories behind this movie and it's a short production cycle, but man oh man, they will tell you, Matt and Trey, that this is the hardest thing that they have ever done. And when you're talking about the croissants in the street, this is a movie that they're spending $1,000 to construct a tiny Uzi. You know, Kim Jong Il's eyeglasses were made with hand ground prescription lenses.

[Amy Nicholson]

Like why though? Why? That's so absurd.

[Paul Scheer]

But it looks so great. I mean the mechanical skulls and these like rubber faces. Like there's like, there's so much the

[Amy Nicholson]

disasters, thousands of puppets getting washed away in water.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean they're talking about scenes where a character is drinking and they're like, that could take half a day to complete, right? It is like, it seems like worse than stop motion because they have like 30 puppeteers sometimes operating, you know, the puppets in the shot. I was thinking about that. Like, how are they on this set? You know, it seems so hard to control all these things. I mean they had three dozen marionette operators and they were using five cameras simultaneously to capture the scenes. And they had three stages working simultaneously. There's so many different sets here. And I think Matt Stone was saying that he was working 20 hour days and using sleeping pills to go to bed at night. Like it was just this battle to get it done.

[Amy Nicholson]

And I mean they sound like they went through a war themselves. Whenever they talked about it after the

[Trey Parker]

fact, they're like, oh God, puppets are absolutely horrible. They are the worst things in the world. They can't do anything. They don't, you know, there's nothing that they can do. They can't sort of block the scene out ahead of time. Nothing. They're still better than ever.

[Amy Nicholson]

I mean, but these puppets are incredible. Like, incredible the way that they can blink and look around. The tiny little motions that they make are phenomenal. I mean, here's a little bit about how they worked.

[Paul Scheer]

We are controlling his facial animation and we're bringing the emotion into the puppet heads. All the motors are servo motors that are very small. There's about six or seven of them in each head. Like, one controls a jaw, one controls. We have a left and a right. We have the brows going up and down and some lip articulation as well.

[Amy Nicholson]

I have heard, and I don't know if this is true, that they could actually make the puppets look even better than this. But then it was getting too close to Uncanny Valley and people were freaking out that they needed the puppets to just stay slightly janky. But there are things happening right from the beginning in this movie. Like when you first see, you know, the blonde, the love interest, Lysa, enter into Paris, and she does this tiny little hair toss over her shoulder. That could not be more exactly right. It is just exactly how an actress would do it. And that's what I really love about how this film was made, is they do not act like puppets in the slightest. They act exactly. Just like B movie actors.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. And what you're seeing in this movie is something that is not like an art form that we see films of. Yes, there were Thunderbirds, but they play within the specificity of what you just described, like tossing the hair back. And it looks so elegant to, you know, another puppet missing their mouth when they're trying to drink. Or other moments where the puppets look dead. Right. You know, there's that moment of Gary in the limo and his head is just hanging to the side of the window while it's raining outside, and he looks completely lifeless. Like they. They're within the puppet, you know, usage. We're seeing different ways that they're getting jokes, because I think that these puppets aren't funny. Like, they're not trying to be funny. I think you're right. They're being B movie actors. You know, they're doing melodrama. And then you add on top of the melodrama, like, stuff that you would never see from a puppet. Spitting up blood, vomiting, you know, talking about, you know, going down on each other. I mean, the sex scene, like we mentioned so many times to get that through the mpaa. And it's. It's funny because it's just dolls, they don't even really have genitalia.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. I mean, they kept making the Point. Matt and Trey, that every single person has done exactly this with their dolls when they were little. And in their little element of trolling, they always referred to it not as a sex scene, but as a lovemaking scene. And that the puppets were falling in love. And that the more the MPAA made them cut it down, the more it felt like a cheap one night stand. I mean, that is not entirely fair. Of course. Like, things that the MPA made them cut out was like a golden shower, but they at least enjoyed that. They got to make them watch a golden shower.

[Paul Scheer]

They also shit on each other, I believe.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, but that's the thing, like, to your point, the calibration of jokes here, they're not having this hero who looks exactly like Chris Pine. Like, exactly like Chris Pine. I know Chris Pine wasn't famous yet. Come on. He looks exactly like Chris Pine. Proto Chris Pine. It's like you could have just touched this puppet with a magic wand and Chris Pine appeared. But, like, his name is not Hero McSquarejaw. You know, his name is Gary. Gary Johnston. And that normality of it keeps things in such perfect balance. Like, they don't lean into stuff. It's not like, hi, I'm Chris. I'm from Detroit. I like martial arts and disco dancing. No, it's just like, I do martial arts. Like, they really pulled back.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I also just want to point out, just to go back to that sex scene for one second, that Trey

[Amy Nicholson]

Parker want to go back there. You love that sex scene.

[Paul Scheer]

Trey Parker said, you know, we blew Jeanine Garofalo's head clean off. But the MPAA had no issue with that. They were more concerned about the positions of the dolls having sex, which I also think is just another level.

[Amy Nicholson]

Perfectly America.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Right.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. They're like, we took this movie abroad and they did not care about the puppet sex. But this country, they also, I think, scored it in early test runs to Aerosmith. Don't want to miss a thing. Because Armageddon, by the way, shout out. We did do an episode on Armageddon.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes. Which we found to be oddly better than we remembered. But the one movie that we will never remember with fondness is Pearl harbor, which does take such a hit. And when you're talking about wooden performances, I think that Gary Johnston, to a certain extent, is analogous more in this moment to Ben Affleck. Right. Because Ben Affleck in this is a real punching bag. Yes. Matt Damon is, you know, shown in a way that he seems mentally not all there.

[Amy Nicholson]

Oh, you Mean, like this. His only line. His only line. Matt Damon said he actually felt kind of hurt by that. He's like, I write scripts. I'm smart. Is that how people see me?

[Paul Scheer]

I mean, it's a funny person to attack. I mean, and at that point in his career, too, he was doing interesting stuff. You know, there are these odd shots, like Sam Jackson being a part of the film actors group. I was like, oh, I don't ever think of him as somebody who speaks out. You know, obviously, Sean Penn, obviously Alec Baldwin. Janine Garofalo as well. Susan Sarandon, sure. But when I saw a couple of these other ones, I guess they're just filling out the thing like Liv Tyler, too. I'm like, why are we taking shots at Liv Tyler? But that's where I feel like they're just hitting people that are in their zeitgeist. They are thinking about Pearl harbor and that song about Pearl Harbor. I gotta say, yeah, they are right. And they nailed it. And I forgot about that. And I was like, I'm glad that someone took it to that movie.

[Trey Parker]

I need you like Ben Affleck. Affleck needs acting school. He was terrible in that film. I need you like who? But Gooding needed a bigger part. He's way better than Ben Affleck. Now all I can think about is your smile and that shitty movie, too. Pearl harbor sauce. And I. I miss you.

[Amy Nicholson]

I mean, Jerry Bruckheimer, he, I think, was their toxic NAR star. Basically, they said they wanted to model the script after the classic Jerry Bruckenheimer structure, where instead of starting with this hero who is reluctant, they have to figure out how to grow up and become the hero that they were born to be. That it starts with a guy as, and this is Trey speaking, who is fucking rad and thinks he's rad. And then in the middle, starts thinking, maybe I'm not so rad. And then the end decides that he really is rad again. But they're not only really modeling their script after that. I mean, this movie is made by people who have worked on Jerry Bruckheimer films and also just gigantic action films in general. The score, which is incredible, is by a man who did at least three Jerry Bruckheimer films. And I love it. It sounds so perfect. Like, when they get into the car, there becomes a plane. It's like, yeah, this is the right cool guy. I mean, beyond that, they're also the. The pyrotechnic supervisor. He worked on Independence Day, Terminator 2, Judgment Day. The cinematographer is none other than Bill Pope, who did the Matrix. They are shooting with real. Yeah, real people who know how these movies really look. And I was thinking, that's a. It seems strange. Why would they want to make a puppet movie? Why on earth. And the argument that Bill Pope made was, right now, most big action movies are animated anyways. Everything is cg. And at least here, with these puppets, I'm not shooting green screen like I'm shooting practical, which is what I want to be doing anyways, by the way,

[Paul Scheer]

they would never get the performances that they got from the actors that they would have needed to make this film. Right. And if.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, it would be like Starship Troopers. You'd have to really trick them into it, maybe.

[Paul Scheer]

I mean. And beyond that, no one's gonna shit on anyone else. And if you did make this movie, that would just balloon the budget. I do want to say that Bill Pope has a great quote, which is, you know, shooting this movie was harder than making the Matrix.

[Sponsor/Advertisement Voice]

Wow.

[Paul Scheer]

And that also just kind of six months of that. You know, six months of not even knowing, is this all working? Like you mentioned, they show it to the executives. It's not even sound mixed. They are racing to this deadline. Like, they literally. The print is hot off the presses the day it is released, you know, and it really gets to live in this unique position, which is no one knows what they're gonna get. And when you get that, I think you get this unfiltered thing. There was no test audiences that could take stuff out. There was no debating. Like, they had to just commit. You couldn't reshoot. You couldn't really lose that much in the film. And I think what we get is this moment where, as a country, we are in a weird spot where we feel like we can be attacked. We feel like we are going to continue to be in war for the rest of our lives. And what they do is they kind of channel that anger and all the things that are going on. And I think they lay out a blueprint for the next 20 years. I mean, this is a movie is a little older than 20 years now. And I have to say, it feels just as relevant today as it did when it first came out. I think they saw ahead, they saw the future. I think that that's what great satire does. You know, it doesn't just see the now and the ridiculousness of the now, but it also kind of foreshadows what's to come and everything in this movie. You know, we didn't know it yet, but they were Kind of right on.

[Amy Nicholson]

They were. I mean one of the clips I pulled, I pulled it because it not only nails how the attacks of 911 will be pointed to as a reason why we should just give unlimited power and access and money to the military. Or else that kind of constant. Or else that I feel like, gosh, at this point in our lives, we've been living under longer than we ever had before. But it also presages artificial intelligence in a way that's really freaky Intelligence. The most sophisticated computer in the world.

[Paul Scheer]

I have intercepted communications that several terrorist groups are being organized for one massive worldwide attack. From what intelligence has gathered, it would be 911 times 100.

[Trey Parker]

911 times 100. Jesus, that's.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, 91,100.

[Trey Parker]

Basically all the worst parts of the Bible.

[Amy Nicholson]

But then they're able to even make a joke about this dangling of 911 as this constant threat. Terrorists hate you. They hate the way you are, they hate the way you live. They hate that you live in a free place and just build it and build it and build it until it becomes absurd. Like when Kim Jong Il is threatening

[Trey Parker]

it, towards the end it will be 911 times 2,356. My God, that's. I don't even know what that is. Nobody dies.

[Amy Nicholson]

You know, it's weird. I'm with you. I hate the way that Kim Jong Il talks. I mean, not the Cartman esque of it, just like the R's and the L's thing.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Amy Nicholson]

You know his big standout song, I'm so Lonely. If it was just lonely, I think it'd be just as funny, honestly. But it's like it crosses just enough of a line with me that I'm like, oh man. And I get huffy.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah. It's just, you know, because I feel like the movie is smarter than just doing the like. I think the terrorists just saying like jihad Jahad, you know, like those words like that to me is really funny because I think it shows the POV of Americans in the way that we view people from other countries. Right. Like, I think that there's. Right, I think and where.

[Amy Nicholson]

Especially when it's like about us trying to speak their quote unquote language. Like when you have like this scene right here.

[Trey Parker]

Act. You have the power. Bak Dirk. Durka la durka durka. Muhammad jihad haka sherpa sherpa baccalau. Oh durka dirka durka.

[Amy Nicholson]

All right, Gary.

[Paul Scheer]

Told you he was top gun.

[Trey Parker]

I've never seen acting that good.

[Amy Nicholson]

He's amazing. Then the joke is 1000% on us. Right?

[Paul Scheer]

Exactly. And that's, you know, so that's my probably biggest not pet peeve. But it's one that I'm like, ah, it's a little lazier than the other ones. But I don't know, you know. And yeah, it's offensive, but I think that you also just have to go, I know this movie is trying to offend me. Let me just sit back and watch it. Because I think that if you start to pick apart every joke, then it just all falls apart very quickly. It's a house of cards.

[Amy Nicholson]

It's sort of the thing like if you want it to offend other people, you have to accept being offending you.

[Paul Scheer]

And I think that that's okay. I think that all. I think that a movie that satirizes something should also offend you.

[Amy Nicholson]

Well, yeah. Otherwise what every, everybody I think has maybe an individual line. Right. So it's impossible if you try to make a different deal.

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[Paul Scheer]

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[Amy Nicholson]

And how they slip in stuff right at the end, like this one.

[Trey Parker]

It's the dream that we all share. It's the hope for tomorrow. The ghettos. Fuck, yeah. Well, my. Yeah. Baseball. Yeah. NFL rock and roll. The Internet, slavery. Yeah. Yeah.

[Amy Nicholson]

It's like they get you, man. It's like they're like, you think you're going to do this at karaoke? Just wait.

[Paul Scheer]

And I also think, like, juxtaposing, you know, Gary is in a Broadway play that's parodying Rent. I forget the name of the.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, it's called Lyse.

[Paul Scheer]

Yes, Lise. And you know, everyone has aids. I think what I thought was so funny about that was, you know, how this show Rent has become so popular. It's like it is popularizing, it's making it poppy, it's making it catchy. This, like, epidemic that is so dark. And at that point, it was a really astute point of view, but no one wanted to touch that. I think they did it again with Book of Mormon, which is like, oh, we're gonna do a Broadway musical. It's gonna hit all the tropes. We're gonna say shit that is gonna blow your fucking hair back. I remember watching that show for the first time on Broadway and being like, holy shit. Like what? Really? Like. And that's. I feel like we are missing in society. Like, yes, south park still exists, but wow, for this to be a major motion picture, for that to be a Broadway show like we are, we should be pushing more of these boundaries.

[Amy Nicholson]

We should. And I want to play a little bit of Everyone has aids. Because what I like picturing about that scene is not just even the number itself, but I think what's more important is all the reaction shots of the audience. Because you're watching this audience that's starting off sniffling a little bit like, aw. And then they're just rocking out, and it feels like you're watching them comment on how we use art to say, okay, we cared. We did it. We checked off our little caring box, but we're rocking out, and that's not really our problem anyways. And we did it. We did our good deed. Like leaning on art to say that you have solved a problem when all you've really done is just, like, dance a little bit in your seat, Right?

[Trey Parker]

Well, I'm gonna march on Washington Lead the fight and charge the brigades There's a hero inside of all of us I'll make them see Everyone has AIDS My father AIDS My sister AIDS My uncle and my cousin and her best friend the gays and the straights and the whites and the spades Everyone has A's My grandma and my dog oh, Blue Pope has got it and so do you Everybody, we got quilting to do we're gonna break down these barricades Every. Everyone has age.

[Amy Nicholson]

I mean, and I think that's the kind of, like, turnaround about the commentary on what is art doing in our society? What should art be doing? Because this basic structure of a movie that we're watching is pretty sincere. Like the way that they wrote the script. Originally, they wrote a script for Team America that was really funny. They said it was very Adam Sandlery, like, super jokey. And Paramount was like, great comedy. We like it. And then as soon as they started shooting it with the marionettes, they realized, oh, no, we have to get rid of all of these jokes. Because the jokes don't make sense coming from these puppets, that then the joke actually is just these marionettes trying to do the straight drama. So they took out all of the jokes, and they were like. If you read that second version of the script, you would say, this isn't funny at all. There are no jokes. It's completely dry. Like, completely sincere, completely earnest. They're like. It's just. It felt like a really weird, serious satire. So then they had to figure out, like, what jokes to put in, which is when they wound up with, like, the pussy and the dick monologue and all of that. But really, the calibration is so tricky here.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I think, you know, whenever you're doing a big comedy thing, you have to Ground it in a world and what they really do well here. And I was thinking about this last night. If it was done with actors, I don't think it would be as funny. Right. Because it creates a very specific world. The violence, while over the top, isn't as like. It's not aggressive. It doesn't feel like you're not looking away. It's puppets. Right. So there's a safety within this. There's something really quaint and unique about putting it here. I also think it helps with the idea of, you know, when I said before, like, oh, I think that, you know, the R's and the L's with Kim Jong Il are, like, lazy. You can't say this movie is lazy. Right. Like, you really like. I mean, there's so much attention to detail here that I actually think it gives it more of a free pass. Whereas if it was just actors, you feel like they couldn't calibrate all of those things the right way. But they get to keep it kind of in like a snow globe. Like, everything is able to be tweaked. And because they are the creators very much like Rick and Morty, you know, they don't need to bring in a million people to do things. It's really just them being able to, you know, just add the right bit of something, pull back a bit of something when it's not working or they need more of it. So I think that that really is why this movie is so unique in that way.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. I mean, they even had an opportunity to use actors. I think Alec Baldwin heard that he was gonna be a character and was like, I'll do it. I'll do my own voice. And they said, no, we just don't want that. That would actually disrupt what we're trying to do. And this puppet layer on top of it, I think it really highlights that this is just a commentary on the kind of brain rot movies that have existed throughout American history. You know, about just like, yeah, we show up and we're cool and we're heroes and we get the job done and there's a little bit of sacrifice, but we make it work. And you know what? Our own of this Team America World police cliques, our own, like, love triangles. They're just as important as everything else happening. And when we got to take out our emotions on killing people, I mean, it gets to this level of, I think, I don't know, the brainrot absurdity of the kind of media that you absorb a lot in this country about what a hero looks Like. Like, to me, one of the coldest scenes of the film is when the, quote, unquote, like, empathic character. You know, the one with the ponytail. Yeah. When she's looking for Garry when he goes inside that bar in Cairo and she's trying to find him, and she's just grabbing her machine gun and yelling, gary, Gary. While machine gunning hundreds of people without even caring. Like, that kind of ghoulishness happens in our movies. You know, it's an exaggeration, but having it in puppet form, it makes you start thinking like, God, we absorb such crazy media in this country.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I mean, the biggest blockbuster action films are often America saving the day, but it's not viewed as America saving the day. But America doesn't work with many other countries in every, you know, the end of the world is coming. America's like, we're sending up only oil drillers from, like, Texas.

[Amy Nicholson]

We got it.

[Paul Scheer]

That's it. Like, it's going to destroy the world. And we're like, no, no, no, we got the guys. No one else in the world is capable of this. And you're right, we're not thinking about it. It's not conscious. But that's the stories that we are telling time and time again.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah. And then it's even here, kind of double. When you have somebody like Gary, who's an actor, he shows into this group that's already existing, and they're like, you're the only one who can do this. You're actually the only one who can do this. Nobody else can save it, not even us. You know, all the world is just on your shoulders.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, and that's the funny thing. This is a movie that you, like you said in the beginning, like, oh, you're gonna be upset about the actor stuff, but. But the truth is, it's a movie about how actors are bad because they kind of mess things up. But at the same time, our hero is an actor, and the reason why they need him is because he can do something that no one else can. Right. So there's an interesting mixed message there. I'm not saying it's a defense or anything. I think it's a funny joke.

[Amy Nicholson]

Well, before you feel too confident in yourself, I'm gonna let them make fun of actors again here.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, right, because it's like this idea, like, you're a tough guy on screen, then you're not there, and it can all go back to, you know, Jane Fonda on that tank. Something that she has apologized for a million times, but she was caught in this moment, and it was used in a way that she didn't understand fully, and that created this energy around her. So much so that, you know, whenever you can hear older people still not forgive her for that. Right. Like this idea. But when you look at Jane Fonda's career as an activist, I would say that she's on the right side 95% of the time. You know, it's like.

[Amy Nicholson]

And that was Matt Damon's argument, too. He was like, you know, I was in this. I was parodied here because I was against the Iraq war. I went on record against the war, and history's on my side.

[Paul Scheer]

And it's also. And I also say it's a lot of the times the media's fault, because they will ask them what they think. It's not like Matt Damon held a press conference to say, I need to get out in front of it. There are other people who do, but not holding a press conference, but, like, really. But, like, sometimes it's. You're grabbing somebody and you're pulling them into a moment, and whatever you say, you're kind of damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

[Amy Nicholson]

Well, yeah. And, I mean, that comes up all the time. It's a dilemma I think about a lot. Like, it came up when I was in Sundance, and there was all the violence happening on the streets in Minnesota this year, and the deaf. And, you know, we're running, like, our studio where we're, like, talking to people about their movies. And you're thinking, some people actually really do feel an obligation to want to be able to say something about this moment. And we don't want to put people on the spot, but we want to figure out a way to make it comfortable if they want to say something. And we also feel like, as frustrating as it is, that's a way of not feeling like we're ignoring it at this point in time, you know, like to just let history pass. There is no clear answer to this. I feel like I wish. Well, the clear answer would be, like, we make experts, celebrities, but we don't.

[Paul Scheer]

Well, I also feel like, as somebody who's been on the receiving end of those questions, it's very hard to give a succinct answer to anything that is a complex issue. Right. Like, and I think when you look for those moments where, oh, you do have an easy answer. Well, here that, you know, the killing of that man in Minnesota, like, he was innocent. He did not pull a gun on them. He was Carrying a gun. He had a license to carry a gun. Right. Like, that's a very cut and dry thing that I think you can speak to easily. But when you are asked to give an opinion about, you know, a war, a point of view, like, it's. If you can't give the jingoistic quick one liner, then you're forced to get into a larger conversation which is never going to make the cut of anything. So it's like you get caught in this crosshair. And I know that I'm the least effective because I'm oftentimes still digesting it. And I heard the best thing from a friend one time, which was like, you don't. It wasn't to me, it was just in a general sense, it was like, you don't need to have an opinion on everything. Like, you don't need to publicly share what your opinion is on everything. It's constantly evolving. You should be stepping back, you should be listening. And I think that we make mistakes when we jump in right away. And I think that this movie does highlight that, you know, when you just decide on something, you know, it's so quick. I remember it was, I listened to this podcast, I was like, I really don't understand this conflict between Israel and Palestine from a historical perspective. I was like, I understood, I had opinions about it, I had thoughts. And I listened to this podcast and there's a seven hour long podcast. It started off by saying, we will not cover everything. We can't cover everything. And it's seven hours long. And it was like. And we also understand by even using the term Israel, we are going to offend a majority of people. And I was like, whoa. I didn't even understand that. Like, you know, so it's sort of like there are. There's so much there. And I don't know if people are going deeper. I don't know what people are doing. I just hope to. And I think we all do want to get a smart person, somebody who has a. You know, we want to learn from people who are writing the books and on the ground to know what is actually going on. But I think it's hard because you're forced into having an immediate response and that response can be cheered or it can be booed. And I think that that sucks. That's like, it just. You're making it like, go team. And that kind of, I think, belittles even the complexity of any thing where people are dying.

[Amy Nicholson]

Yeah, I mean, everything feels awful. So maybe that's why something like this that just kind of detonates is the only way to kind of clear the air and then start new fights. Of course, because then, like Sean Penn is, you know, writing a letter where it's so good. Can actually just read Sean Penn's letter.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Amy Nicholson]

Okay. To Trey Parker and Matt Stone. I remember a cordial hello when you guys were beginning to be famous guys around Hollywood at some party. I remember several times getting a few giggles out of your humor. I remember not being bothered as you traded on my name, among others, to appear witty above it all and likable to your crowd. And never mind being of service in satire and silliness. I do mind when anybody who doesn't have a child, doesn't have a child at war or isn't or won't be in harm's way themselves. Is encouraging that. There's no shame in not voting if you don't know what you're talking about without mentioning the shame of not knowing what you're talking about and encouraging people to know. You guys are talented young guys, but alas, primarily young guys. It's all well to joke about me or whomever you want. Not so well to encourage irresponsibility that will ultimately lead to the disembowelment, mutilation, exploitation and death of innocent people throughout the world. The vote matters to them. No one's ignorance, including a couple of hip cross dressers, is an excuse. All best in a sincere fuck you, Sean Penn. P.S. take this as a personal invitation from me to you to escort you on a trip which I took last Christmas. We'll fly to Amman, Jordan, and I'll ride with you in a 12 hour trip through the Sunni triangle into Fallujah and Baghdad, and I'll show you around when we return. Make all the fun you want. The hip cross dressers, by the way, as a tiny callback if people don't remember. That's because when Trey was nominated for an Oscar for Blame Canada, they went to the Oscars dressed specifically as Jennifer Lopez and Gwyneth Paltrow. Gwyneth Paltrow in the pink dress when she won for Shakespeare in Love J. Lo, when she was in that deep plunging green V dress that was so striking. They made a pact. Actually, you know, I'm just gonna let them describe it.

[Trey Parker]

Friend of ours had sugar cubes of lsd. That's so crazy now to think like just so nothing. The whole idea you would go. I mean, even to just go, okay, you're gonna go to the Oscars, take acid and go to the Oscars. I'd be like, no, dude, I'm not doing that. Because I don't know what I'm gonna end up doing. That'd even be too scary.

[Paul Scheer]

Talk about a fashion statement. Now two of you are nominated for best song. Blame Canada.

[Trey Parker]

Matt's not.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah, I'm not.

[Trey Parker]

We said we can't say. Say anything about the dress. Nothing about the dress. No matter what they. Everyone say, Guys, what about the dresses? Why the dresses?

[Amy Nicholson]

And we go.

[Trey Parker]

Magical night tonight.

[Paul Scheer]

Just all the shorts are out. Is that why you're in the dress?

[Trey Parker]

It's just such a magical evening.

[Paul Scheer]

And everyone. It's just everyone looks so spectacular, you

[Trey Parker]

know, we just wanted to be a part of it. It's a night of magic.

[Paul Scheer]

Come on.

[Trey Parker]

There were people, they were like, dude, this is my big night. You.

[Paul Scheer]

Yeah.

[Trey Parker]

That was the funniest thing to us.

[Paul Scheer]

We're like, really? Like, this is bull.

[Trey Parker]

It's Hollywood. Let's rock. You know, we don't have any friends anymore. I wonder why.

[Amy Nicholson]

I wonder if that's why none of the songs from this movie were nominated for an Oscar. Because I think they're all really great.

[Trey Parker]

Yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

And how times have changed. And I think that whenever you are going out and speaking about society or you have an opinion, you are putting yourself up to ridicule any which way. And I think it takes a very thick skin to be able to do that. And there's something so thin skinned about what his reaction is, because the truth is, you are one of the people that you probably think of that is, you know, what he went to. Not El Chapo. Right, right. Like he has been. He puts himself there. He puts. He's in. You know, he's in Katrina in a boat. He puts himself there. He misses the Oscars, and that's not bad. But you have to acknowledge that that's who you are. That's what you are doing. And if you. And I mean, I do.

[Amy Nicholson]

I respect that, though, more than I respect Leonardo DiCaprio being like, I love the environment. I'm on a yacht, you know, I love the environment. I'm at Bezos's wedding. I think Sean Penn. Everybody's a problematic person in some way or another. But I do think he is sincere. Yeah, I think he's as sincere as this movie is. I think as the characters in the movie are, you know, playing this as sincerely as they are. It's just we live in a world that is controlled. The big marionette people holding the strings are here in this movie. At least they are 10,000% against being earnest in any kind of way.

[Paul Scheer]

I also think what's kind of funny is in the grand scheme of things. Wow. You talk about how this movie is still right? Well, when you look at these people who are speaking out, Alec Baldwin and Sean Penn still doing it, right? They're still doing it, you know, and, and for better or for worse, it's like, it's. Who knows? And I'm not saying it's for worse. I'm just saying it's just like that's what they have chosen to do. That's who they want to be. It's very easy for them not to be that because they don't have to do any of that. Like you just talked about Leo. Like you don't have to. You can just walk away from it. But they keep on going. And I do think they bring attention to issues and they can be easily ridiculed as well. I think it's the whole reason why people really wanted to side against Alec Baldwin in the shooting incident on Rust. A thing that he is 1 million percent innocent of. And so, so many ways it doesn't even regard. But it's like, but because the people are like, well, he's, he talks about politics, it's like, no, no. And then people wanted to bring him down for that and it sucks. But you know the truth, that's the

[Amy Nicholson]

whole reason why he was tried repeatedly. Yeah, yeah.

[Paul Scheer]

It wasn't about like, yeah, it's a very, very interesting thing to me. And I think that good for them for not giving a shit. I think it's youthful. Like the beauty of youth is like you fucking take a gun into these places. And they are as reckless with their comedy and what they're doing as anyone. And I think as they've gotten older, they've gotten more pointed. I think they've gotten better. I think that south park still is executing on such a high level. They haven't fallen into the preachy, they've always been funny. They continue to do it. So great. Good on them. And I think in more ways than one, they have probably leaned more into the side of making a stand, not just on the media and the pop culture of the day, but on bigger issues. And I think that their voice matters so much so that Trump is the old. Like Trump has threatened to sue everyone and keeps his mouth shut when it comes to south park cuz he knows he can't win. I do believe that.

[Amy Nicholson]

Oh no. I wonder how much they feel about being the leaders of the conversation. I mean it's so needed. And also, it's exactly what they're arguing against here.

[Paul Scheer]

And by the way, their jokes on Trump, for the most part, are like, he's got a tiny dick and he fucks Satan, right? It's not like his politics are, you know, geopolitical. It's like, no. And there's. I like it. Like, why not? Why not just fucking hit low? Like. And that's the other thing. It's like, that's what they're doing. And they're doing that same thing to anybody. They're just kind of making more base observations, which I think are funny and weird and great.

[Amy Nicholson]

Oh, Paul. I think we should just let Kim Jong Il have the last word on this episode with the song where he reveals that he's actually not even from North Korea, he is an alien, and he's here just to start fights, which this movie did. So, Kim Jong, take it away.

[Trey Parker]

I was sent from planet Yron to conquer the Earth. I had a terrific plan. I thought it would work. Tried to get the earthlings all to

[Amy Nicholson]

kill each other, you see?

[Trey Parker]

But it all went wrong. And now I must decree you are worthwhile and you are worthless, Eric Bowen. You failed in every way. And now my stock in you has fallen. Your career is Stalwin, and you're worthless, Alec Bowen. That's why I blew your head off. And your children are all boring.

[Amy Nicholson]

Okay, so next week I'm just gonna make an executive decision. There's a movie that I really want to do. I've been thinking about it a lot because the new season of Jury Duty is out. I haven't seen it, but the last one, it just felt like we were all like, oh, man, people are good. I really want to watch the show where people are good. And I thought, well, what's the really screwed up version of that? Truman Show? I want to watch the Truman Show. I want to get in the headspace. Let's Truman show it up. Let's Jim, carry it up next week.

[Paul Scheer]

And make sure you check out our substack each and every week to go a little bit deeper on the movies that we talk about here. It's always free, so join in. The conversation Unspooled is produced by Amy Nicholson, Paul Scheer, Molly Reynolds and Harry Nelson. Sound engineered by Cory Barton, music by Devin Bryant. Episode art by Kim Troxall. Show art by Lee Jamison and social media production by Zoe Applebaum. This is a Rome production. See you next week. Bye for now.

[Trey Parker]

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[Amy Nicholson]

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[Trey Parker]

specialoffer welcome to Inside the Art House, the go to destination for cinephiles and the number one place for art house cinema and filmmaker conversations. Each week, today's most visionary filmmakers pull back the curtain on the art of cinema, sharing how stories are made and why they matter matter. Hosted by Greg Laemmle of the legendary Laemmle Theaters, a family that shaped the movie business for over a century, and Raphael Sparge, actor and award winning director. Together they explore the creative process, the struggles and the triumphs behind the camera and the bold ideas shaping film today. From indie debuts, documentaries to international art house cinema, Inside the Art House dives deep into a world where passion meets art's craft and where the love of film lives loud. Inside the Art House Conversations with today's most visionary filmmakers Listen or watch wherever you get your podcasts.