Marine Force Recon Legend & The Medal Of Honor Upgrade | Unsubscribe Podcast Ep 238

Summary

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Unsubscribe Podcast Ep 238

Marine Force Recon Legend & The Medal Of Honor Upgrade
Release Date: November 10, 2025
Guests: Major Jim Capers
Hosts: Eli Doubletap, Brandon Herrera, Donut Operator, The Fat Electrician

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Episode Overview

This episode of the Unsubscribe Podcast is a special Veterans Month edition featuring Major Jim Capers, a legendary Marine Force Recon veteran and Medal of Honor nominee. The conversation delves deep into Major Capers’ extraordinary military career, incredible acts of heroism, and his journey as a groundbreaking African-American Marine officer during Vietnam. The hosts explore his battlefield experiences, reflections on leadership and family, and the personal tolls of war. The blend of humor, respect, and raw truth makes this an unmissable story of service, sacrifice, and resilience.

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Key Topics & Highlights

1. Introduction and Major Capers' Background

• [03:16] Episode introduces Major Jim Capers, Marine Force Recon legend.
• [07:35] First African-American to be field commissioned during Vietnam—a rare honor after WW2/Korea.

  “My colonel called me in... took off my Staff Sergeant Chevrons and put on lieutenant bars. I walked out in the rain and there were some guys out there that saluted me for the first time.” — Major Capers [07:53]

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2. Early Marine Corps Service

• [08:34] Enlisted in 1956 — describes Parris Island boot camp era shortly after six Marines drowned.
• [09:48] Deployments to Middle East (Lebanon, Mediterranean) showing force during geopolitical conflicts.
• [10:11] Served as an infantryman before joining elite Force Recon.

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3. Joining and Leading Force Recon

• [10:53] Chose to reenlist, moved to California, and volunteered for First Force Reconnaissance Co.
• [11:45] Completed 550 parachute jumps (static and HALO/freefall), became a dive master.

  "I made 550 parachute jumps." — Capers [11:45]

• [14:29] Emphasis on always putting his men first; numerous rescue and recovery dive missions in Vietnam.
• [13:36] Describes harrowing swims under carriers with sharks and dangerous night missions:

  “His buddy line came loose, and he was drifting out where the sharks were. And I unhooked my buddy line and swam. I got him and brought him back.” — Capers [13:36]

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4. Legendary Battlefield Stories

A. 20-Foot Python Capture

• [19:00] Returns to the infamous story: his team captures a 20-foot python (named Gomer) in Vietnam.
• [21:00–25:13] Wild tales of attempting to feed the snake a live duck, only to find the snake dead and the duck alive—team makes belts from the skin.

B. Jungle Training/Canoe Heist

• [26:30] Team breaks a training course record in Panama by “acquiring” canoes from locals.

C. Combat Dives

• [14:39] Led multiple underwater recovery and demolition missions, including recovering Marines' bodies and removing ordnance from riverbeds.

D. Knife & Sidearm Combat

• [86:01] Details close combat kills with knife and FN Browning Hi-Power sidearm:

  “I grabbed the first one, sneaked up on him and... I cut his throat. Then I took my 9 millimeter and there was two others. And I shot...” — Capers [87:02]

E. POW Rescue Operation

• [89:21] Recounts a CIA mission to free American POWs from a North Vietnamese camp, involving brutal close-quarters fighting and harrowing extraction.

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5. Surviving Chaos: The Silver Star & Final Combat

• [62:15] Last combat mission at Full Lock, Vietnam — multi-day siege, all-team wounded, Capers severely injured:

  “We fought for three days. … My point man… lost his leg. My war dog, King, killed two...” — Capers [63:14]

• [68:54] Details evacuation under fire, refusing to depart until all men and war dog were onboard; threat to shoot a medic who mishandled King:

  “He said, ‘the damn dog is dead.’ I said, ‘yeah, but carry him. … If you don’t pick him up, I’ll kill you right now.’” — Capers [68:54]

• [70:00] Medical evacuation: narrowly avoids leg amputation, months of recovery.

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6. Race, Resilience, and the Path to Leadership

• [34:32] Faces racist assumptions in diver school, told he would drown — graduates as honor student but denied handshake by bigoted commander.

  “He walked past me. He didn’t shake my hand. … But I would have saluted your ass.” — Capers [38:53]

• [44:57] “In some places in the United States, I couldn’t get a drink of water at that time. … I couldn’t sit in a bus. … That’s the way the country was.”

• [77:41] Chosen as face of the Marine Corps in national recruiting poster campaign while still recovering from wounds.

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7. Trauma, Recovery, and Family

• [50:10] Emotional tribute to his late wife, Dottie, his high school sweetheart — 50 years of marriage.

  “She died of cancer. … She winked at me, squeezed my hand, then she closed her eyes. … She’s the love of my life.” — Capers [50:10]

• [51:00] Describes battle with physical and psychological wounds, survivor’s guilt, and the pain of PTSD.
• [101:18] Tribute to son Gary, who was blind but excelled at music, Braille, and life:

  “He could write in braille. And I was so proud of him. He died in my arms. … I sued the federal government and I won.” — Capers [101:18]

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8. Reflections on Leadership and Brotherhood

• [14:01; 116:56] Lifelong ethos: never left a man behind; his loyalty to his men is central.

  “If I gotta die, let me die with the only friend I ever had.” — remembering Sgt. Yerman [115:10]

• [99:15] Bonds formed with fellow Marines and with a young South Vietnamese (Lapp) integrated in his team during CIA missions.

• [109:42] Lessons passed down for future generations and the value of persistence and integrity.

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9. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On being commissioned in combat:

  “All the officers were killed in the first three months. … My colonel took off my chevrons and put on lieutenant bars.” —Capers [07:53]

• On racism in training:

  “The commander … told me he was sending me home … because we have medical documentation you can’t swim... I said, you're making a mistake. I can swim, and I can swim, you know, a little bit of bravado...I can probably swim better than anybody you got in this class.” —Capers [34:32]

• On leadership:

  “Their lives are more important than my own. And that’s true every time.” —Capers [14:29]
  “Take my guys. It was always my guys.” —Capers [69:40]

• On postwar life & legacy:

  “I feared no man. … I didn't fear anybody. I fought day and night and I swam the oceans. … Right now I’m in a damn wheelchair … but it wasn’t always this way.” — Capers [110:06]

• A light moment about his reputation:

  “This is the only dude I know with a confirmed knife kill.” — Zach, via Host [07:11]

• Refusing to leave men behind:

  “I didn't get on; take my men home. I figured out some way I’ll make it...my wife said, ‘Did you think about me?’ … At that time, it didn’t matter.” —Capers [66:56]

• Comic relief on the snakes:

  “We thought the snake was going to eat the duck, but somehow ... the snake died, and the duck was there, quacking.” —Capers [22:41]

• On loss and survival:

  “I have 19 holes that I bled from. I spent time in the Middle East. But there are a lot of moments I was proud of.” — Capers [100:44]

• Famous father’s advice:

  “If 10 men start up a flight of steps, you believe that you be the one that get to the top.” — Capers [107:19]

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10. Closing, Legacy, and How to Learn More

• [104:57, 112:23] Major Capers' memoir, "Faith Through the Storm," is available on Amazon; proceeds go to charities.
• [117:09] Hosts offer to fly his old team members to visit him, in tribute to his impact.
• [124:37] Hosts thank Major Capers for one of their favorite and most important episodes:

  “You said you weren’t good at this podcast stuff before we started. You’re showing all of us up.” — Brandon Herrera [124:25]

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Timestamps for Crucial Segments

| Segment | Time | |------------------------------------|----------| | Field commission story | 07:35–08:20 | | Force Recon selection/jumps/dives | 10:53–14:39 | | 20-foot python (Gomer) story | 19:00–25:13 | | Battle of Full Lock, Silver Star | 62:15–70:00 | | Knife and sidearm combat | 86:01–89:21 | | POW rescue mission (CIA) | 89:21–95:07 | | Family, PTSD, recovery | 50:10–54:30 | | Reflections on leadership | 109:42–111:29 | | Amazon book info | 104:57, 112:23 |

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Further Reading and References

• Major Capers’ memoir: "Faith Through the Storm"
• Medal of Honor campaign websites and documentaries (search: "Major Jim Capers Medal of Honor")

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Summary & Takeaways

Major Jim Capers’ life is a testament to courage, friendship, and perseverance in the face of both enemy fire and social adversity. Through vivid storytelling, he reflects on leading Marines through hell, breaking color barriers, and enduring personal tragedy and triumph. His humor, humility, and candor leave a lasting impression, and his wisdom is both a tribute to the veteran experience and an inspiration for all listeners.

If you listen to one episode this Veterans Month, make it this one.

Transcript

[A]

Coleman ran over and jumped on me and said, lieutenant, you've been shot. Said, damn it, doc, I know that. Bleeding all over the place.

[B]

I've read a lot of the stuff your guys have said about you.

[A]

All lies. All lies. Yeah, right.

[C]

How many grenades did you end up even throwing through?

[A]

20.

[C]

We would have got along in war.

[B]

I understand that you captured a 20 foot python.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

All right, I'll bite.

[C]

This is a marine in Vietnam.

[A]

In Vietnam, man.

[C]

Say hi to Vietnam. Lie. He's racially ambiguous.

[A]

Brandon.

[C]

His hair is fabulous. Donut a dog.

[A]

Joke disposition. And there's a fat electrician. Welcome to unsubscribe.

[C]

Hey, what is up, everyone? It is our favorite month. It's November, which means we are doing the Veterans Month. Two new pieces of merch, amazing pieces emerging. We have TBI Fridays. The sun will come out tomorrow. Unfortunately, 100% of the profits will go towards nonprofits at the end of the month. That's right. We're donating everything we make off of these at the end of the month to some amazing veteran nonprofit organizations. We are also doing a golden ticket, which we will fly you out to one of the last two live shows in December. Your choice. That trip and hotel is on us, of course. And we will be giving away some turtle beach headsets. The new unsub jump out side zips. Some merch. Some pepperbox.

[A]

Subscriptions.

[C]

Subscriptions. And some Echelon and anything else you buy on that website. A portion of that will also be going towards these amazing causes. And we're doing the same with Echelon. A portion of any Echelon purchased will be going towards those nonprofits. And during veterans day month, we are doing an amazing deal with the subscription program. 10 off plus free shipping. And then use code unsubbed to get 10% off of any of your orders on single cases.

[A]

Got it.

[C]

You are entered for the golden takeout on either site. So go.

[A]

Snack.

[C]

Some TBI fries Fridays snacks. Let's raise some money and change some lives in the veteran community. You all ready?

[A]

Yeah. Let me just check this out.

[C]

You get it first, brother. You get it first. Did you do good?

[A]

I have one comment. I've had coffee all over the world. This is the best coffee I've ever. I've ever tasted.

[C]

He's trying to steal my wife. Y He's stealing Sam over.

[D]

And today on the podcast, we have Mr. Steal your girl.

[C]

Major steal your girl in the house right now.

[D]

Major steal your girl goes crazy.

[A]

Major loves this coffee. That's what it is.

[C]

I'm gonna readjust this. And you're good.

[A]

Boom.

[C]

And then we'll start with this countdown.

[A]

All right, everyone ready? Ready.

[C]

Three, two, one. I accidentally popped. I pre popped, Nick.

[D]

It happens.

[A]

Well, guys. Oh, you're good. You're good. You're good.

[C]

You got your coffee, brother.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Hi, welcome to the unsubscribed podcast. I'm joined here today by Eli Double Tap, Major Jim Capers, Brandon Herrera, and myself, Nick.

[C]

And today is going to be an awesome episode. We have.

[B]

Yeah, I'm excited, dude.

[A]

We are.

[C]

So let me get this adjusted for you. So you're taking care of brother, and you just get to have fun and chat.

[A]

Okay. We have major.

[C]

Major gym, brother.

[B]

We.

[C]

I told the guys the first time we met in D.C. i was like, oh, my God. I met one of the coolest humans. And holy. His story is amazing.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know you guys already met.

[C]

Yeah, okay. That was how.

[B]

Yeah, gotcha.

[C]

The whole team, after meeting him was like, oh, 100. So when I went down to D.C. for the Purple Heart, they honored 100 Purple Heart recipients, I believe.

[A]

Right.

[C]

And then I walked over shaking hands, and then I seen him. I'm like, holy shit, you got me beat, bro. He had, like, a stack of part. You got three purple Hearts.

[B]

Yeah, it should probably be more.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, dude.

[C]

Yes. Brandon, do you know his. How in depth. Do you know some of his stories?

[D]

I've seen some of the interviews, but I don't know the full story front to back, so I'm excited to. I'm excited for this episode. Sounds like you've got a quite a storied history or a service record rather.

[A]

Well, it's good for me to be here.

[C]

Oh, thank you so much.

[A]

Happy to have you.

[C]

You and your team coming out. Oh, we unsub got. And the audience got you a doorbell. We got you.

[A]

We got you a little gift.

[C]

Open that thing up, brother. This is from all of us.

[A]

Well, it looks pretty good so far. And see what we got in here.

[D]

Hope you love boxes.

[C]

Yeah. Now, Frank said that you just have no watches.

[A]

Sound like Frank.

[C]

He said you have trash taste. I think that was his choice of words.

[A]

Oh, wow. Hey, sweetheart. Boy, it is a watch. We got you.

[C]

You figured od green. You like that color?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Good boy.

[A]

This is really nice.

[C]

That is a. It's a Hamilton. It's a military watch. And one thing from unsub, we would. We always just try to pay our respect to y'.

[D]

All.

[C]

For what?

[A]

Well, thank you so much. I'll put this back in here, if you don't mind.

[C]

Oh, of course.

[A]

And I want to put it on right now.

[D]

That's really nice. Is a much better review for Hamilton than. Well, this is a watch. Put that on their website.

[C]

What's upside down? There we go.

[A]

See, that's. That's my niece who just walked in. She's an Air Force veteran.

[C]

Oh, well, thank you for your service, dude. The family of veterans. We'll put this right. Box is out your way. Okay.

[D]

Because isn't that how you guys first started talking at the Purple Heart? Thing is, he made a comment about your watch.

[C]

Yeah. So it was him and Zach. And then Zach was helping. He's a J Tech. And of course, one degree of separation. Zach and I were talking. He seen one of the watches. He was like, that's a nice watch. We start talking. Then he's like, man, you actually watch unsubbed, but you should have Jim on. I was like, done and done. And then he told me a story because as Zach said, he was like, this is the only dude I know with a confirmed knife kill.

[A]

I was like, what? I was like, holy.

[C]

I was like, done. We are going to get him on then. And then he knew my buddy Holtz. They served together. And I. Holtz is the one I deployed with, and they trained together. And now he helps from time to time help with your guys's team. So I was like, tiny ass world. And now we get you. The literal poster boy of the Marines.

[B]

And the first African American to be field commissioned.

[A]

Holy shit.

[B]

During Vietnam, when field commissions were not normal anymore after World War II in Korea, Field commissions are not a normal thing. And he still got one.

[C]

That is wild.

[A]

Yeah. I was a staff sergeant and all the officers were killed in the first three months. So my colonel called me in his office and took off my Staff Sergeant Chevins and put on lieutenant bars. And I walked out in the rain and there were some guys out there that saluted me for the first time. It was interesting, I bet, going from.

[C]

Enlisted to that and no OSAT or anything.

[A]

No. They didn't send me a home for any officers training. So wild. Yeah. That.

[C]

So you joined as Marine.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And now you did basic training during the much harder times. What was even basic training? What was that like?

[A]

You're kidding me. For Marine Training camp.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Holy.

[C]

I am so sorry.

[A]

Yeah. Boot camp for Marines back in those days. I joined in 1956 just when they had lost six. Six Marines who drowned in Paris island, which is a notorious boot camp. So I Went through the three months and did pretty good. And after that, they sent us to combat training for a month, but we didn't get the month in because there was a war in the Middle East. Assyrians and the Egyptians were fighting. So they sent my unit over to the Mediterranean, through the Mediterranean. And we didn't land or anything. We just went over there to show force, say, hey, we're here now, and you better behave yourself. Eisenhower was president, and we were prepared to land, but we didn't finish up our combat training. So they brought us back to the States and we started all over again. And my first three years, that's what we did. About every six months we deployed to the Middle east, and now they're still at it.

[B]

You were in Lebanon the first time?

[A]

Lebanon, yeah, I went to Lebanon when Lebanese and the Syrians and everybody was. Was that battle over there during those days, I don't remember what the problems were, to tell you the truth. But they've been fighting over there for 2,000 years.

[D]

I say I don't think they remember what the problem started as either.

[C]

Hey, how true that. Why are we fight?

[B]

It's just what we do.

[A]

What's your name?

[D]

Tony. You Tony.

[C]

Now you going into it? I know all. All Marines are infantry. Did you actually go in being like, I want to do infantry. I want to be a grunt. I want to do, like, reconnaissance?

[A]

Well, I did the three years as a grunt. Then I thought, well, I'm doing pretty good. So rather than be discharged, I decided that, well, I'll go ahead and reenlist. So I reenlisted for six years. And then they sent me. What the hell? They sent me. Sent me to California, and I joined the special organization, the First Force Reconnaissance Company. And they did pretty good. I went to jump school and became a diver. And, you know, all of the various things. You learn to kill people 50 different ways. And I spent three years there.

[D]

So you told me on the way here you had 550 jumps.

[A]

I made 550 parachute jumps.

[C]

Static and then Halo or.

[A]

Yeah, static and free fall. Oh, my God.

[C]

And then you did combat diving, too? Yeah, my brother. First off, aren't you black? How can you swim?

[D]

And we're almost 10 minutes in.

[A]

Come on. No, no, I can swim. I'm a master diver, dude. How? I made three combat swims in Vietnam. We did a swim under an aircraft carrier. Almost a thousand meters. We did that. And while we were under the aircraft carrier, there was a school of sharks showed up. This was in Trang, Vietnam. And we swam the whole distance the ship, looking for mines under the ship because the USS Card had been blown up by the Vietnamese divers. So we want to make sure that we had 3,000 Marines and sailors aboard that aircraft carrier. So I took my team of divers down and we swam the whole length of the aircraft carrier. And at the end, we saw the shark show up. And one of my men, everybody was tied in with a buddy line. His buddy line came loose, and he was drifting out where the sharks were. And this is where you. You have to make a decision. You don't think about it. You make the decision. And he was drifting out where the tiger sharks were. And I unhooked my buddy line and swam. I got him and brought him back. Holy.

[C]

How was it hard, even navigating in the pitch black, essentially, at that time. Well, and nobody line. That's wild.

[A]

Well, he was drifting toward the sharks. And I made a decision right here, right there to go out and get him. I swam out and got him and hooked him into my buddy line and came back. We made three combat dives in Vietnam.

[C]

What was the other two? And just for everyone watching this man, or that's the thing you always did, is put everyone else above yourself. You have so many stories of that, and it is literally why we're so stoked for you and honored for you to be here is because you. It's rare to meet an individual like you where you're like, hey, these are my brothers in arms. They. Their lives are more important than my own. And that's true every time.

[A]

That's true.

[C]

It's an honor to meet you, brother.

[A]

Well, that's good to be here. It's honored to be alive.

[C]

So what. What were the other two combat dives you did?

[A]

Well, two Marines at a base that was not too far from where I was in country. We'd gotten to shore by that time, and two of them were blown up by a mine. And so I was asked to go out there and find the bodies and bring the bodies up. So took my team of divers, and I had a young Navy seal, Doug Burwell. He was a corpsman, but he was one of the SEALS that I took with me. And, of course, we were around long before the seals were. No, that's what we did. And the seals come along later on, and I had a couple of them with me, Good guys. Birdwell still alive, but we went out to where the. The kid was, and we went down and got him and brought his body up. The sharks had eaten them or not. The sharks, they were fish, regular fish. They had eaten his body up. What was, you know, there wasn't much left. Rather than making graphic, but we got him and brought him up. And while we were down there, we found mines and explosives in the bottom of the river. So figured we couldn't leave that stuff down there because they could use it against us. So I went back and got all the equipment and we went down and we drove for two days and brought up over 200 rounds of ammunition and mines and things they had stored down there to use against us. We brought it all up. Every round. We brought it all up. How long did that take? Took us two days. Damn.

[C]

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[D]

Not again.

[A]

Those are true classics. Oh, you want to touch it, Brandon? Cody, you want to touch it?

[D]

Oh, Brandon, show you have a degree in hr, right?

[A]

That's right.

[C]

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[D]

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[C]

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[D]

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[A]

Peak male performance.

[C]

But now imagine my dick, because that's where I'm wearing underwear.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

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[C]

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[B]

Unsub so you've done a lot of incredible things.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But One of the things that I do in my videos and my research is I like to find the, the, the crazy things and the funny things that people have accomplished. I understand that you captured a 20 foot python.

[D]

All right, I'll buy it.

[A]

Yeah. We named him Gorma because Gomer Powell was a popular, it was a popular TV program back in those days. So we, we were coming back from a mission and my point man stopped, oh, what's going on now? And he run across this, the snake. So I went up and looked at him. He was huge. It was huge. So I figured, well, let's grab this son of a. And take him back. But then we had to cross a river. And I didn't know we could get this snake and cross the river and climb the mountain back up to the base. But what we did, we took a poncho and they jumped on the snake on his head and tied him up and put him in a sack. So we're going to try to get him back across the river. So we going with this snake. He was huge and he was heavyweight, about almost 200 pounds.

[D]

And so this is just for shits and giggles.

[C]

Yeah, this is a Marine in Vietnam.

[A]

In Vietnam. We got to the river. I love this. Yeah, we got to the river. Now how the hell we're gonna get this snake across the river pretty fast? So we figured, no, we can't do that. So we dropped the snake and we swam the river and climbed the mountain and got back to our base. So while we're. This is a place called Khe Sanh. It was a bloody bows up at Kaesong, and we were holding back the North Vietnamese with our small base. So we climbed the mountain and we got back there and some of the guys said, hey, where's that snake you guys were talking about? I said, well, we couldn't climb the mountain, couldn't swim the rail with them. So a helicopter pilot heard about it and we took my team and put it in the helicopter and we. He flew down to and landed on the river, rocks and river. And our team jumped out and got the snake. And yeah, Marines do a lot of stuff like that. And put the snake back on the helicopter and we got up to the our base on the mountain. Then we took the snake out and we dug a hole and put the snake in this hole. It was huge and long. And we took some pictures with them on our shoulders and like that. I got a few. And his head was huge, you know, big head. And we had a dog named King. The King was A extremely large German shepherd. You know, he was our war dog. And as a matter of fact, I saw him kill two enemy soldiers, rather make it a graphic. But he jumped on them and ripped him pretty well. But I'll leave that part out. But that's what he did. He was a killer. He was trained to do that. But he was a scout dog also. He could smell different things. But anyway, we got up there and King smelled a snake and he started getting agitated to what the hell is this? And we had a, had a snake in the hole. So we figured that, well, I don't know what, how to feed this damn snake. So Yerman saw in. Yerman took the jeep and went out in town, come back with his duck. He had this duck. Yeah, I'm laughing too, because it's funny as hell. I'm dying. This is marines.

[C]

Like a heavy that zone. And you're like, yo, this snake though. And then they pull a.

[B]

Hell, he's literally repelling enemy ambush. Like, guys, we gotta feed the snake. Go get a duck.

[D]

Go, go to town and get some. I don't know.

[A]

We brought the snake back. I brought the duck back and, and Gomer, the snake is in this hole. We brought the snake back and the guys put the duck in this hole with the snake and they tied his leg, one leg of the duck. He was quacking and the snake was over there by himself, wasn't bothering about him. So we figured that the snake is probably going to eat this duck because, you know, snakes don't eat any canned food. We couldn't give him something, he had to eat live food. So this is a riot. All of the guys are coming around taking pictures and duck in his hole with a snake, whatever. But the good part was, the good part was we come back to see if this snake had eaten his duck. And we looked in the hole and the duck was there quacking, quacking. And snake was dead as a door down, laying there dead. And the snake was still alive, quacking. We thought the snake was going to eat the duck, but somehow I don't know why the snake died, but he was there alive and, and the duck was there quacking. So we got the snake out of the hole and they, they skinned him, took the skin off a snake and they gave the meat to the villagers and we took pictures of that. But you know, it wasn't funny, but you know, I felt sorry for the. I don't want to happen to the duck that, that another story never happened to the duck. But Gorma, the snake there. We got a lot of pictures of them and we took the skin off of him and some of the guys made belts out of the snake skin. He was a python, or what we call boa, stricter than large. But I took a picture of him with the snake around my shoulders, and he was heavy, and they put the snake on my shoulders to take a picture. So I felt the snake trying to constrict me. And I was holding his head as. His head in my left hand, and he was squeezing me. And I told Sergeant Yerman, you know, get this damn snake off of me, because he just made. He just may try to eat me or something. But I. I kept him on my shoulder and we took some pictures. He was huge, about 18ft long.

[D]

Well, I'm sorry he died before you could get any useful information out of him.

[A]

Yeah, he didn't. He didn't talk. He didn't talk much.

[C]

That's so wild. That duck is what. Walking back, I'd be like, wait, why is the duck alive? What happened when we were gone?

[B]

Dangerous.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Somebody made a lot of money on that betting pool.

[B]

Yeah. So I remember another story. There was some kind of competition or a course where you had to lead a group of men and traverse part of a jungle. And I think I heard that your team broke the course record in some because you had common. Commandeered some canoes.

[A]

We did that in Panama. They drop us in Panama before going to Vietnam. And I had a team, it was pretty good. And the whole company had to traverse miles of jungles and mountains, things like that. And my team, we took off and we got some canoes and we canoed across the river.

[B]

How'd you. How'd you get the canoes?

[A]

They were blown to the Vietnamese. I'm sorry, the paint. Panamanian civilians acquired them. Yeah, we acquired them. The Marines never stealing anything. So we quietly acquired them, got in the boats and went across the river and we broke the record for that type, of course, you know, in the jungles. And I was their leader. And that's one reason they looked at me through the training and through the operations in Vietnam to get this commission. Everybody didn't get those types of battlefield commission. And I was a staff sergeant and sergeant major came to get me one day and said, sorry, the colonel want to see you. I said, oh, am I in trouble? It's the canoes, isn't it? The what?

[D]

Never mind.

[B]

You know what's better than burning the boats? Stealing them. Those are my boats.

[D]

Acquiring Acquiring.

[A]

Well, I got in the colonel's office and he was a good guy. His name, I forget. His name's gone now. But he commissioned me. Took off my Staff Sergeant Chevins and put on lieutenant bars and shook my hand and had me sign some papers. And the sergeant major said something to me. I can't remember what it was now. But Sergeant Major Skinner was a good man. He was our battalion sergeant major. And he walked me out at the colonel's office and pardon my language, and my niece is here. He said, don't get up. And I didn't.

[C]

That's for damn sure.

[A]

You.

[C]

You were one of the first Force Recon. It was a newer. How long had Force Recon been around.

[A]

When you actually joined with four years. That's why I joined and went to jump school and scuba school and demo school and martial arts and all of this. The commandos. And we had a couple of bridge commandos that help us with our training. Years later I went to England and trained with the British commandos, sas. Good bunch of good bunch of guys.

[B]

How'd you get selected to be one of the First Force Recon Marines? I mean, was there like a tryout process? It was so new at the time.

[A]

Well, you volunteer and you go in with the CO and the one I had is kind of a crazy guy. I'm in there being interviewed, see if they're going to select me. And he had a grenade on his window seal. I mean, I knew what a grenade was because I'd fought in Lebanon. He's sitting there looking at me. And he reached over and pulled his grenade and pulled a pen. It was a phony grenade, wasn't real. And threw it on the ground to see what I was going to do. I walked over and picked it up and hand it back to him. And they selected me. Approved. Yeah, yeah, selected me. That I went off to demo school and all the things you can think of to make you a commando. I went to demo. I went to Fort Benning for the jump program.

[C]

And you did again. Static. But what's crazy is free fall. And this is when there was no wind tunnels. You had to do the little board on your. Yeah, that is wild. It is like floating's hard. You find that out really fast when you're in freefall. It is one of the hardest things and to the only training up to that point is that board. And then you're jumping out of a plane at 20,000ft is wild to me.

[A]

We weren't at 20,000 at first. You know, the free fall Program, you know, you jump out and you stabilize your body, you know, and then you have your toggles which help you maneuver the parachute and you hit the ground at about 15, 20 miles an hour. That's why my legs don't work now. Knees are shot. But the parachute program, I became a jump master where, you know, my job now is to get my guys in on the drop zone and make sure they didn't die getting there. But I did that for 20 years.

[B]

So you're a master diver and a jump master. Okay, cool.

[D]

Two opposite ends of the spectrum there.

[B]

The highest and lowest point a human can be. All right, he's going to go get him.

[C]

I never thought about that. You fight below sea level and well above sea level.

[D]

We'll see about getting you that Space Force Commission.

[C]

Brandon, what kind of shirt is that?

[D]

I'm glad you asked, Eli. This is a poncho. Brandon and I actually wear poncho so much we constantly end up wearing the same nice poncho shirt. Good thing nobody's ever pointed that out before. Now, if you guys have ever seen one of our live shows or this podcast in general, you'll see Brandon and I wearing these incredibly comfortable, great looking shirts all the time.

[C]

Finn, pull it up with pictures. They're literally always wearing the same shirt.

[D]

I got turned on a poncho like a year ago. Been wearing them ever since. Personally prefer, I think this is the western because it's got the pearl snaps because it's hot in Texas and I like something breathable.

[C]

Here's the thing I find really cool. Brandon, do the glasses trick.

[D]

So ponchos have this neat little thing in the pocket where you just take your glasses.

[C]

No, the other one.

[B]

Be more specific.

[C]

Who gives a shit about that? Alright, watch everyone.

[D]

So if you got fat fingers and you smudge your glasses all the time, the bottom of the shirt actually acts. It has like a microfiber. So you can clean your glasses.

[C]

I make him clean my phones.

[D]

He does. I like the hidden little pocket on the breast.

[C]

Wait, what?

[D]

Right over here. Got a little zipper pocket.

[C]

I didn't even know about that one. Is that where you hold Cody's heart and his drugs? Things you might need to know. Poncho has put a lot of thought and detail into each one of their shirts. Oh, holy sh.

[D]

They're soft. They're really soft, yo.

[C]

What?

[D]

That's my one like thing is fabric sensitivity. I don't wear uncomfortable shirts. This is comfy as. That's why we wear them all the time.

[C]

So poncho's got a bunch of great styles. The original western denim and ultralight.

[D]

If you're looking for the perfect shirt, something breathable and stands out in a good way, give poncho a try.

[C]

Go to ponchooutdoors.com unsub and get $10 off your first order.

[D]

That's P O n c h ooutdoors.com.

[C]

Unsub what was the harder school for you? Was it jump or was it diver?

[A]

I think the diving program was a little hard. I went through that in Florida.

[B]

Gravity doesn't do the work for you in diving.

[A]

That was about a month course. And down in key west, Florida, beautiful area. Yeah, they did that for a month. A lot of it you're in the classroom and a lot of it, you.

[D]

Know.

[A]

You'Re in the water. I mean, you in the water all the time. And we did hydrographic surveys when they drop you in and you have to see how close the, you know, the water is to the lands we can land our troops. So it was a hard, hard program for me because I'd been a grunt, I hadn't been swimming like that. And when I first got there, I was only black guy in the class. And you alluded to some of those funny things. But I got there and the commander of the school told me he was sending me home. I said, may I ask you why? He said, because we have medical documentation that can't swim. I said, which were you talking to, commander? He said, we're just going to send you home. We don't want you to drown our program. I said, you're making a mistake. I can swim and I can swim, you know, a little bit of bravado. Said, I can probably swim better than anybody you got in this class. He said, well, you're not going to drown here, so I'm sending you home. I didn't want to kiss the guy's ass, but I just says, hey, you know, just give me a shot at it. If I don't make it, I don't make it. But I guarantee you I will make it. He said, well, I'm going to give you a pro, give you a opening program, but, you know, I think I'm making a mistake. Said, no, you're not. So I start the program and the first week was kind of difficult. Like your hell week program you read about. They kill you. I mean, they do. I mean, you do more push ups, you know, and sit ups and just running and running and swimming. And then at night you study. Then at night they take you back to the water and put you back in the water again. Then you have to do the night swims. You know, when they take you out on a boat. Took you out on a boat. Then you had to swim the shore and you have to like a boat. Then you have to swim. Sure. And hit a target at night. So it was tough. But I was on a graduate. No. Yeah, long graduate.

[C]

Oh, when you're swimming, are you in full kit when you're swimming or do they have like, are you in uniform or what are you wearing at that time?

[A]

When we first started, you know, we're in shorts. Okay, shorts. And I was. It was January 1966 and it was cold as hell down there. I think the whole citrus fruit in Florida froze. But we swam, went through the whole course in January 1966. Then I come home from school to school and then we left to go to Panama. Then we left to go to Bermuda and places like that. So it's training ready to go to go in country.

[D]

I'm still reeling on the idea that there was medical documentation in the United States Marine Corps.

[A]

This was the Navy. He said that for Navy good to swim.

[D]

But you know, I'd love to see that doctor's note.

[A]

And that was what he said to me. And it just made me a little, little irritated. I was irritated, but I knew I had to get in this course. I was the only black guy here. But, you know, I was angry now. Oh, I bet. You know, because he's challenging me. And. And the sad part about it, after we graduated, went through the whole month program and we all line up to. To graduate. And the chief came up to me and told me I was on a graduate. But the commander, as we were lined up getting our certificates, he walked past me. He didn't shake my hand. Even though you were 1966 a honor graduate. But he didn't shake my hand. He walked past me.

[C]

Garbage, human.

[A]

But, you know, I would have saluted your ass.

[C]

I'd be like, yo, what the holy.

[A]

That was a world for black guys back in those days. But I had to suck it up because I had a lot of men that had trained with me. And now we're going to war. You know, the training is over. Joke's over. Now we're going to go fight and kill people. A lot of us got killed, you know, so came home, matter of fact, on the way from the scuba program, we were flying home on the aircraft, caught on fire and the crew chief came back and said, we're going to have to land. And they had. It was a commercial plane. They had other senior citizens on the plane. And we were teenagers, mostly young guys. So they had the plane in an open field, and my guys didn't get off the plane until they went and got all the civilians off. They would. Got the elderly citizens off, and we stayed out there. And the plane was. Was burning. But the ambulance came and they took care of the plane. Then some vehicles came and took us to Miami, and we got a. A bus came and took us to Miami. Then we got another plane and flew us to North Carolina. So it was always something, but we overcame it.

[C]

Always training, that is. And again, I can't. For the individuals out there that don't understand, going through combat diver, halo jump, everything, and then back to back, especially at that time, is like, tip my hat to you for that level of dedication and how difficult that would have been.

[A]

Thank you. Oh, yeah.

[C]

Especially in the 60s.

[A]

This was in the 60s, 66, and in 67, we were in combat.

[B]

You were. You were already married at this point, right?

[A]

Yeah, I was married. I had a child.

[B]

So I mean, what I get. And that's the part that I haven't really seen anybody touch on in your interviews and stuff. Like, you've done all this incredible stuff in the military, but you also did that at the same point in time that you were married. You had a wife and son back home. Your son had special needs. And it's the 1960s and the Civil rights movement's going on, so you're leaving home to go fighting war with your wife at home, and there's like civil unrest going on at the same time. How did you deal with that mentally?

[A]

I was a patriot. I believed in this country from day one. When I was a child, I had gotten sick and my father gave me to a white family. This is just the history that I was told. Probably true, because back in those days, childhood diseases were common. We lost and mostly African Americans who were just, you know, wasn't that long out of slavery. And we ran the. Picked the cotton crop, the tobacco, working for the white guys and say the white man. But some of them were. Weren't all bad. And this family that when I got sick, took me in and obviously I was cured. And then I came back to my family, and we ended up leaving South Carolina and moving to Baltimore.

[C]

Hey, friends, it's Karamo. Talk show host, life coach, and your next best friend.

[A]

You just don't know it yet.

[C]

I'm hosting a new podcast called started on WhatsApp.

[A]

Brotherhoods we're going around the world to explore male friendships and all the wins.

[C]

Challenges and bonds that are made in WhatsApp group chats. And that's exactly where you can listen to it, right in the app. It's streaming on the official WhatsApp channel. Just open the app and go to.

[A]

The updates tab to start listening. While you're at it, message your best.

[C]

Friend and make sure they listen, too. I'll see you there.

[A]

Where I went to school. Then the Korean War started, and I saw the Marines all over the TV. We didn't have TVs in the south, but we got to Baltimore, we had our first TV, the old black and white TVs. And the kid over here was not born at that time, but, you know, we got there and moved into what we call the ghetto, which is where the. The Germans were during World War II. The ghetto. And. And I didn't look at his ghetto. It was a South Baltimore. And we brought our habits from the south to the city. And there were not many jobs and wasn't a good life, but we made the best we could. And so when you say you brought.

[D]

Your habits, what exactly do you mean?

[A]

Survival. But I. The goodness that I found along the way, like I said, that white family, I don't know who they are. And there's some research now. They're trying to figure out, you know, who it was. They're trying to figure out the doctor that attended me. Probably one that many doctors at that time. But there's some folks in South Carolina who are trying to figure out what happened to this guy, how did he live? And now that I've been up for the Medal of Honor, you know, people send me flowers these days. I get flowers, I get cards, I get letters. I wonder if they know something that I don't know. You know, they say I'm getting my flowers before I. Before I get out of here. But it's been nice. My house is full of flowers that folks have sent to me.

[C]

Flowers are one thing. It's usually the only time you receive flowers is at your funeral. So it's a really good gesture. Feels good getting flowers. As a dude, you're like, oh, thank you.

[A]

Well, my place is already prepared up in AR National Cemetery while join my wife and my son. They're there waiting for me. And I'm not worried about it. I think I got a good chance of getting into heaven. My wife, my son are waiting for me. But on the other side, I wasn't the nicest guy. I was not the nicest guy because I was trained to kill people in the worst way. And I did that for too long, maybe. But I feel that God will have mercy on me and let me get into the pearly gates. But then again, he might say, hey, you shouldn't have done that. But I don't think so. I believe in God, and I think I'll see my wife and my son again.

[C]

I believe the same. You got forgiveness. And that's the one thing. Especially Jesus. That's what he sacrificed himself for. So I think you're good to go.

[A]

Yeah, I hope so.

[D]

All of your favorite NBA players are black. I mean back.

[B]

I mean, both were right.

[C]

I'm just waiting for Cody to say it.

[D]

Pac and Menthols any car.

[C]

Draft Kings Sportsbook. An official sports betting partner of the NBA. It's the place to bet on those NBA stars this season.

[D]

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[A]

What's that?

[D]

If I know sports?

[B]

I don't know. But you're also gonna win $300 if your bet wins in free bets paid in bonus bets. Correct?

[D]

Now, something I do understand.

[C]

You can't say that word.

[A]

Understand.

[C]

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[B]

That's code UNSUB.

[D]

Bet five bucks and get three months of League Pass. Plus get 300 in bonus bets if your bet wins. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler in New York. Call 8778-HOPEPENNY what? Hope New York. Hope NY.

[C]

Hopeny.

[A]

Hopany.

[C]

Brandon just said hopepenny, not hope New York.

[D]

It's spelled H O P E N Y.

[A]

So much better.

[D]

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[B]

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[A]

What?

[D]

Yeah, pass through per wager.

[B]

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[C]

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[D]

Sun Tzu said that.

[C]

What's one of your favorite stories of for your wife and for your kiddo?

[A]

Well, I met her in high school. I saw walking down the hall and I looked at her and I fell in love. First time I saw I was in love. I went home and I told my mom. I said, ma, guess what? She said, sit down, son. We'll talk about it. And we went through high school together. Her name was Dorothy, and I call her Dottie. And I was. You know, I still write to her. She's been gone some years now, but sometime I have the desire to tell her what I'm doing. And when I get back on Friday, I'll write to her about how well you guys treated me. I'll tell them who. I'll tell her I can't mail the letters, but I just tell them that, you know, guess what, sweetheart? I was in San Antonio. And she knows all of this anyway. She's watching me when I do write to her and I have the letters. Someone, Frank, told me in the day, and I should put him in the mailbox. Maybe God will find the way to get him to Daddy. No, I. I do write to her. It's just a relief for me. I'll sit down right up to her when I get back on Friday about this experience, and I'll say, guess what? My niece was there listening, even though she joined the Air Force. I thought maybe the kid would join the Marines, but no, she joined the Air Force.

[D]

That was whiplash.

[C]

Hey, Dottie. Thinking of you, by the way.

[A]

Air Force. What?

[D]

Well, at least to my understanding, you got to share over 50 years with her, which is fantastic.

[A]

We were married 50 years. Dang. And she died a week after we celebrated our 50th anniversary.

[C]

Condolences.

[A]

She died in the hospital there in my. In my town. And she died of cancer. And I was holding her, holding her hand, standing by her bedside. And I was holding her hand, and she winked at me. That was Dottie Capris. She. And she winked at me, squeezed my hand, then she closed eyes. But I'll see you again. You know. She's a love of my life, and I'm still single. You hadn't been able to find any. Another Dottie Caper. So I been widowed all these years, and I thought about it, but I don't go on dates or things like that.

[D]

We can't find you on Tinder.

[A]

No, no, no. But I had a great marriage. She stuck with me all those years when I deployed overseas. And when I came home to Bethesda, I was all shot up. And she came there and she asked for me. And they said, no, there's no black lieutenant here. I was there, but they had never seen A black wrinkle also before. So eventually, being Dottie Capers, she found me. I was on the 14th floor of Bethesda Hospital and she had my son with her. And my son, some kind of way, walked into the room and walked to my bed and he put his hand on my body and he said, hello, dad. He's blind, special needs. But, you know, we wanted. How did he get into the room? He got away from Dottie and got into the room we'd never been there before, and put his hand on my body and said, hello, dad. You know, these are things you wonder about, special needs and. And how in the world did a child like that, you know, get into that room.it was right with him. She was chasing him. And she came in and they, you know, I want to see them. But I was angry. The demons had come home. And, you know, I lost all those men. I've been banged up, both my legs were broken. I still had bullet fragments in me. And I looked out the window. I didn't look at her because I was shamed. Because that. In a way, you know, in those letters, I told her that, well, when I get home, we're going to go dancing. You know, we're going to go to different places. We're going to enjoy the rest of our lives. This is over now. This is over. But then I come home. I couldn't walk, couldn't hardly talk. You know, I only weighed 120 pounds. I lost all of the weight. My body was scarred. And they had. The corpsman had cleaned me up because I was. Blood was all over my bed and I couldn't use the bathroom, so they'd come in and clean me up, put a pot under me. And that was a world that I saw. But when Dottie came in, she was okay with everything. And she held my hand and kissed me and said, welcome home. But me, I was still in combat. I was still in those jungles. I could still hear those cries of men dying, you know, But Dottie Capers was Dottie Capers. And she sat there with me and told me it was going to be okay. We're still going to go dancing. I was never a good dancer anyway. But the thought was being with them. And it happened, I don't know, after a year, you know, of being there in that hospital. I look out the window and matter of fact, one day, and I was in pain. You know, they had, you know, they were doing surgery on me, this or that. And I looked out the window, I said, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. Said if I can open the window, just get me to the window and I'll jump out. So you can understand why warriors do this. Why do you commit? Because the pain was so severe, I thought I was pretty tough. But after a while when they gave me shots for the pain, I got to the point where I was so weakened that I would set my clock up because I got shots every four hours. So what I would do, I would take my clock and set it up and I'd call the nurse and tell the nurse, hey, it's time for my shot. She said, no, it's not four hours yet. I said, yeah, come look at my, my watch. That was a time when I was at my weakest. When I looked out the window, it didn't matter anymore because the pain was so severe, you know, And I thought I couldn't deal with it anymore. But God stepped in, said, yeah, let's stay with it. Let's keep it going. And I did. But the nights in that little room there, I could hear the sounds of battle, you know. I couldn't. I only weighed 122 pounds, you know, scars all over me. And I'd lie there at night and that little bed there, and the wounds began to seep in the, in the bed. And I still had blood on my hands from the war. Blood was all in my, my hands because I couldn't take a shower. They wouldn't give me no showers. So they just sort of dib and dabbed, you know, to keep the blood from flowing. I had some bandages on me, but they didn't stick. I had skin, grass and all those things. But when I came through caisson and they, they hit us hard with those 120 rockets. And I run across this Marine who was lying there. It was getting dark and. And his head was crooked. I said, damn, you know, he was dead. And I took his head to try to straighten his head to be perpendicular with his body. And when I grabbed his hand, his whole, his brains fell out in my hands. His whole head was cracked and the blood and blood. And I was just trying to straighten his head. But now I'm trying to deal with the brains in my hands. And I didn't have enough water to wash it off. So I kept that his brains in my hands, you know. And sometimes I'll get up at night and go to the bathroom and wash my hands thinking that I've got to wash these brains and blood off my Hand. But those are the things that bother me. And I wish I could have saved that marine. But he's gone now.

[C]

You are a strong, strong individual.

[A]

I was weak. I'm a weak brother.

[C]

Shut up right now, brother. The life you. You have lived. And what, again, you put everyone else first. Even right now, it is those dark thoughts. It's like, especially veterans, it's. It's hard. If you've seen stuff, been to war, everyone glorifies war. But then reality of war is, it's. It's hard. War's hell. And you came out the other side and then with your family, and you said you did therapy too, but look at you now. Look like you. You came out clean on the other side. You went through hell. And it was a. Probably a long process and journey. And you still have those moments. But look at the lives you're changing now.

[B]

Fizzing. Just get through it. He brought a lot of people with him.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I've read a lot of the stuff your guys have said about you.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

You don't know. One of the coolest things these guys said about him. One of his guys said, I heard capers swear one time the entire time I was with him in Vietnam. The rest of the time, when he was mad, he'd just call you a knucklehead. But when he called you a knucklehead, it felt like your dad and Jesus Christ called you that at the same time.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

How do you want to borrow my ghost bed pillow?

[D]

Does it smell like you? Yes.

[C]

Do you feel that? Cooling technology.

[D]

It's definitely not a hot pillow. I got to get out of here. Give me my pillow.

[B]

I'm the one that has to sleep here. You guys have your own houses and your own pillows. Quit touching it.

[D]

All right, real question. Can the gang do a pillow fight?

[A]

Not with these. They're heavy.

[D]

Slow motion pillow fight.

[B]

No, they're heavy. It'll hurt.

[D]

Are they really?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

They're premium.

[C]

Dude, that would actually suck.

[D]

That. Actually, I don't think I'd want to get smacked with that.

[B]

I'm swinging it hard.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

Your son. You walk up and just pee off on your kid.

[B]

If I smack you with this, you're gonna be a ghost.

[C]

And get this.

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[D]

What do they do with all the used mattresses that get returned?

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[C]

I don't even know what story. Like you have a silver star with V device.

[A]

Yeah, Silver star, Purple heart.

[C]

Yeah. Three purple. Like this. This is so stacked over here. Yeah, like just zoom in on that rack right there. You're like, oh man, this dude has been through it. And then being forced recon at the same time in Vietnam is wild. And you're the mission.

[A]

I was.

[C]

It's wild reading that mission or even hearing glimpses of your stories like, oh, hey, with a knife. Oh, hey. Like this happened. And then also that mission leading up to, I think that was the Silver Star with where you broke your legs and everything. Was that that mission or is that a separate mission?

[A]

No, that's the Melawana mission. That's in a place called Full Lock.

[C]

You want to talk, would you be open to telling that story?

[A]

Sure. Full Lock was a place and in Vietnam it was my last combat mission. We're gonna go home now. We've been deployed almost a year. So now we survived this. It was a five day mission. And when I got the mission, see Taroski, which was my point man, I left him behind because he'd been with me. And I picked up a guy named Nicola who was huge. Nick, had 20 inch arms and a 50 inch chest. And he could carry the M60 machine gun with one hand. So I took him along.

[C]

Strong dude.

[A]

Yeah, he's a big guy. Yeah, he's a big guy. And I took him along. I had a kid named Stanton who survived it. But he got hit real bad, lost a kidney. And they're still alive in Louisiana. So the team, all of them are gone now except Stanton and Deroski. We went out on the mission, we went out at night and we crossed the rice patties. We ran into some of the bad guys. We smoked them, kill them all. Then we went into with another group and to try to help them out. I think that was 1st Battalion, 3rd Marines. We was. And we went in and all hell broke loose. And we called in artillery and they dropped them in. They gave us 50 meters grace, other words. I told them, you know, give me that 50 meters because don't drop them on me. So they did. They started walking them back toward me and they would. Keeping the bad guys from attacking us. So they. They dropped him in about 50 meters. And then I called in airstrikes. We fought for three days. He fought for three days, and we killed as many as we could. We could. My point man, Nikola, he lost his leg. My war dog, King, he killed two. He. He jumped on this Vietnamese and he grabbed the stroke, ripped it out, and he grabbed his groin. He killed two of them. And we got Nick out. He was a huge guy that everybody was wounded, the whole team. But that was one of the greatest days of heroism and combat, you know, that I saw our last mission. They fought for three days and they were good. They were good. I mean, I did the best I could. When I. When I got home, I had three rounds of ammunition left and gone through all the ammunition that I had. And, you know, my right leg was broken to the point where I couldn't hardly stand up, and the blood was flowing down into my boots. But I used my rifle, you know, best I could. And the helicopter dropped in and landed the small helicopter and dropped it out of the sky. The other one was flying, suppressing fire. And I got my team there and my dog's body, all wounded. Got everybody on the aircraft. I didn't get on, take my men home. I figured out some way I'll make it. I got all my guys on. And then a helicopter had tried to lift off and it wasn't. It wouldn't make it. So the crew chief grabbed me and he pulled me on as he was trying to get up, pulled me on, but he was struggling. So I jumped off, get my troops home. That's what I was thinking about. Matter of fact, one time I was talking group and I told a story about getting my guys home. And my wife said, did you think about me? Did you think about you trying to get home? I said, no, it didn't matter at that time. She didn't speak to me for two days.

[C]

Pissed Dottie off real quick.

[A]

But my guys all on the aircraft now, they pull me on. We went up about 12ft and it dipped and it went south and landed in the hel. In the hospital yard. And they took my bodies. Well, the one guy that. Who was there at the hospital, he Reached King, my dog by the collar, and pulled him off. And he. King hit the ground. And I told the corpsman, I said, hey, you know, pick him up and carry him. Don't drag him. He said, well, the damn dog is dead. I said, yeah, but carry him. And I had my M16 across me, and I told him, if you don't. If you don't pick him up and carry him, I'll kill you right now. And I pointed my M16 at him. I only had three rounds, but, I mean, you know, how many rounds you got? You know, you had 20 rounds of these magazines. So I always knew pretty much how much I got. And I had three rounds left. But I. I didn't kill him. I didn't kill him.

[C]

He carried him really quickly on that.

[A]

Carried the dog in. And that's the last time I saw King. He took us all in. And the doctor came in to me. I asked him, how was my men? He said, they all gonna live. When I thanked him, he was a young doctor. They had sad eyes. I looked at his eyes. He had sad eyes, and he'd been crying. Young guy. And he. I was lying there, and he looked at me and he said, lieutenant, I got good news and I got bad news. He said, it looks like you're going to live. Look like you're going to live. And I said, well, Doc has good news, so what's the bad news? He said, he going to take off your. He's going to take off my right leg. He said, gangrene's going to set in, and it'll probably kill you. And so that was the worst thing ever heard. Take off my right leg. I was just so damn disappointed. And he left the room. I'm lying there. What the hell's going on? But at least I knew I was going to live. That was a question mark at first. I was kind of wanting, is this it? But he came back in and said that if he could get me to the. Get where? He said Danang or wherever it was, he might be able to save that leg. And then he came back in and said, they're going to take me to Japan. They did. They flew me to Japan. And from Japan, they took me to Alaska. Was cold as hell. They took us off the aircraft to refuel it. I was lying out there on the tarmac. It was raining, 10 degrees below zero. It was snowing, and I was shivering coming out of a jungle area. And they picked me up, picked the stretcher up, and I was the last man to get on And I looked back to make sure that nobody had been forgotten. I want to make sure all my men was on the aircraft. You know, leave me out, but take my guys. It was always my guys. And they came out, got me and put me on the aircraft. It took us four, five days to get home, you know, from the combat zone to stops along the way. And they took me to where that took me to Alaska and getting home. Then we finally made it to Bethesda Hospital, and I spent a year there learning to walk, learning to get rid of the anger that I felt. You know, I didn't trust anybody. I didn't want anybody behind me. No, I don't even trust these guys here. They look like they rob banks.

[C]

It's fair enough. Branded because he's Mexican.

[D]

Yeah, also fair enough.

[B]

How. How long after that was that picture taken?

[A]

Oh, yeah. I came home as an officer and they sent me to Marine Barracks, Fort Meade. And the Marine Corps at that time, or the military was. Was trying to bring more minorities and in the Marine Corps, and they weren't doing very well. So I got a call from the secretary I was in. You know, they sent me to Marine Barracks, Fort Meade as an officer. Then the Secretary of the Navy called me and told me I'd been selected to head up a campaign to get more African Americans and minorities into the Marine Corps as officers or just get them in. And I said, well, Mr. Secretary, you know, however you think we ought to do this thing, I'll. I'll help out best way I can. He said, I've got a program going down where we're going to make you a superstar. I said, said, what the hell is that, Mr. Secretary? And he said, well, we got a company, that J. Walter Thompson Co. In New York. And they came down for three days and they took 600 pitchers. Had me on a golf course. As I mentioned, the sad part about this whole thing is the guy was holding me up in the rear. I couldn't hardly walk when I was standing there. And this rain there was talking to me.

[D]

The one in the. The back left of the photo, you probably. It's probably better on the big one.

[B]

Yeah, show the big one.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right there. So the gentleman.

[A]

Right, right. He was holding me up because I couldn't stand. And he was saying to me, over.

[C]

Here, Brandon, can you hold it?

[A]

Yeah, that way. Same shot. Yeah.

[D]

So that gentleman there.

[A]

Yeah. I heard him say, lieutenant, it's okay. I got you. And he had his hand in my back. You know, my legs had been broken. And, you know, I didn't really want to be there, but I told the secretary, Navy secretary, that I'd do what I could. The kid there, he didn't make it. He let. He died. Then the demons come home again, and I couldn't make sense of it all. Hell, I come home from this war zone and the boy is holding me up, saying, it's okay, Lieutenant. I got you. I still hear him today. He helped me stand up because I. They had me all dressed up and my blues, you know, blue uniform. When I went to Quantico to get the officer's uniform, they told me no. He said, you don't look much like an officer. I was skin and bones. My skin was scarred, and. And they said, well, go home and come back. I was turned down from getting the uniform that I'd earned in Vietnam. My wife was in the car. When we went to the car, she said, you okay? I said, yeah. I didn't get the uniform. They were very expensive uniforms, but I was enlisted man. Now I'm an officer. I got to do all this stuff officers do. She said, that's okay. We'll. We'll go home and I'm going to fatten you up. And we're coming back. We're coming back. And we did. And we did. And I came back and they took me in and measured me, and they got the uniform out and. And I looked in the mirror. I didn't recognize that person. That was not me. But they had about three or four guys are measuring and doing all these kind of things, and with this historical wrinkle uniform. Now I've got it on me, and what do I do now? I got it. I went back to Fort Meade where I was stationed, the army base. They took me to a golf course along with some rings there, and they had me marching around with that uniform on, and they took 600 pictures. And this is the one they decided to go with. I believe it's called Ask a Marine.

[C]

How was that? The first time seeing that and knowing the impact, especially at that time, because as you said, it's like, you're gonna be a superstar. And you're like, what even is that?

[B]

You're the face of the Marine Corps for a minute.

[A]

How.

[B]

The face of the Marine Corps for a minute. What'd that feel like?

[A]

Yeah, well, it took me a while to understand it because I was a wounded warrior. I could hardly stand up, and the uniform didn't, you know, I only weighed 122 pounds, a little bit more than that. You know, so it was. And they decided to discharge me for the Marine Corps. They said I wasn't going to be able to be a Marine anymore. And I'd been a Marine since I was a teenager. What happens now? I got a wife and I got a son. They're going to kicked me out. And then I got a letter from the commandant and Marine Corps. And he said he's going to keep me. Said my combat record was exemplary. And we're gonna. I'm gonna stay in the Marine Corps. And I stayed in and I made first lieutenant. Eventually I made captain. And they sent me to Europe, you know, as a commander, Marine detachment on the aircraft carrier. And I did that for a year and traveled the world on his. On this aircraft carrier. But go ahead and ask me questions. What do you got?

[C]

I'm loving brother. You are. I'm going to adjust this just a little closer for you.

[B]

So you married for 50 years to your high school sweetheart?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What's the best advice you got to a young guy that looking to get married and have a happy marriage for 50 years like you did?

[D]

When she asks if you thought of her lie.

[A]

Well, you know, I think we were driving around. I'd gotten out of the hospital and we were driving around one Sunday afternoon and there was a little Volkswagen that was beeping behind us, Dottie Polo. And it was a guy that I met in Vietnam. And he went, hey, Jim Capers. He recognized me. And I pulled over and he said, I don't live but a mile down the road. Come down and I went to his house. Dottie and I, we had dropped the baby off at the school, Maryland School for the Blind. And I went to his home. And at first he said he thought I. I was dead. The word was rounded. I didn't make it, but obviously I did. Then he started telling the stories about in country. And Dottie heard all these stories and we had a good afternoon. Then on the way home, I think I told a story about. I forget what it was, but. But Dottie said that I didn't know you. Oh, I had a chance to come home. When I was in the hospital, they told me that because of my wounds, you know, I could get sent home, but I couldn't do that. My men were still. There was still half some still alive. And when I was there at the hospital there now the. In country, when I was wounded, told the corpsman to get on the phone and. And call my unit instead of going home. I got a jeep and it sent me back to my unit. I couldn't go home, you know, because my men were still there. And when I told that story, you know, Dottie said, well, you said you love me and all those letters and. And you had a chance to come home and you stayed. And I told her, well, these Marines were like my sons, and I. I couldn't leave them. She said, yeah, but I'm your wife. You said you love me. I see. I did love you, but at that time, I didn't. I love my troops. And that caused a problem. You know, she didn't speak to me for a while, but we got through that. But it was just ptsd. Those guys meant so much to me. And the only two were still alive now. And I did the best I could to keep them alive. No, I swam with them, I fought with them, climbed mountains with them. I sweated out in those jungles that was 100 degrees. I killed snakes. You caught snakes. Captured and interrogated snakes and then made.

[B]

A duck kill a snake.

[C]

Crazy.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

We.

[A]

We came face to face with a Asian tiger.

[D]

Just a tiger that can do math.

[A]

Right?

[B]

It's like a normal tiger, but with an abacus.

[C]

Holy.

[A]

Yeah, he was huge.

[C]

Yeah, cats don't mess around. That is also Brandon. This confirmed this. During the big three day firefight, you guys ran out of ammo. At one point, you had to have ammo resupplied during the firefight.

[D]

Yeah, I was thinking that because. Yeah, the combat loadout for three days, that's a stretch. Like, that's. That's gotta be tough.

[C]

You threw how. Like, I read it and the amount of ammo, but, like, how many grenades did you end up even?

[A]

I threw 20 on the. Yeah, I threw 20.

[C]

We would have got along in war.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. The problem was sometimes you would throw a grenade and it either didn't go off or it hit a tree and it might bounce back. So we threw a lot of grenades and hoping that you'd kill enough enemy soldiers that they would back off and, you know, they don't. Yeah, there were a lot of. I won't say a lot of guys, but there were some who, you know, who didn't pull the pen or. Or just threw it. It hit something and bounced back. A lot of casualties, but I. I carried about 20 and I threw them all in that last. Every one of them. I had three rounds of ammunition left. We. We fought for three days and they resupplied me on the second day.

[D]

What we were talking about a little bit beforehand was you were. So you were issued the the original M16.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

And you also had your, your 9 millimeter, which you said was a, it was a F.N. browning, high power.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

No, yeah. And you actually, I want to say Zach even brought up you, you, you even used your actual sidearm in combat during that, which is for now, like, at gy. I'm sure you've talked to a couple GWAT veterans, but it's so rare to. Most of us don't have a sidearm unless you're an officer. But then I never seen one get used in service, especially in combat. We were just like, shooting. We do have the mark. Well, I say we get along. It's like one firefight I don't even think I talked about on here. But we did. In one exchange, we did, I think we fired 22 or 20 HEB DP grenades like from the M203. And we laid down like, we laid down a lot of hate during that firefight. But it was like open field, and we were just. As you said, you're just hoping that they leave.

[A]

Right?

[C]

Or they pull away, and then when they stick and fight, it becomes that actual engagement.

[A]

Yeah.

[D]

If I'm not mistaken, the, the sidearm was in the same. It was two people with a sidearm and one with a knife in that one engagement. Or am I wrong on that?

[A]

Well, I killed the first one with a knife. And Bill is o. Frank is over there saying, and maybe I shouldn't tell these stories. I don't know. He's.

[C]

Frank, it's your call.

[A]

I think he could tell.

[C]

I, I if. As long as it's okay with you and you these stories, it's, it's one, it's.

[B]

Yeah, it's again, it's a.

[C]

You were in the midst of combat, you went through hell, and you came out on the other side, and now you are helping people. But it also, a lot of people don't understand what war is like. Or when you're like, oh, it's war, it's hell. That doesn't just, it doesn't do justice to what you go through mentally in those situations or taking a human life. It's like this. And it's also, you're fighting for your life. You're fighting for your brothers.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

That's all that matters at that point. You're not thinking about that little shit. You're just like, I have to protect these people. I have to get them home, and I have to get home, too.

[D]

But totally, you guys call on that, that front?

[A]

Well, you know, we were coming back From a mission at a place called K Song. And we run up on some bad guys and I grabbed the first one, sneaked up on him and I grabbed it in my mouth and I took my knife and I cut his throat. Then I ripped him down and blood gushed from everywhere. And I killed him. And then I saw. No, before I killed him, I had killed three with my M16. I cut his throat and then I took my 9 millimeter and there was two others. And I shot the first one. I hit him, double shot, bam, bam. And he fell. Then it was another one come running over and I shot him. So the one I killed with my knife and the two right there, you know, I killed a bunch of them in just a matter of minutes. They didn't know we were there. And when we jump on guys, we kill everybody. Now my chief of staff over there, Frank, he thinks that I shouldn't tell these gory stories. Like my niece is sitting there thinking, oh, Uncle Jay, I never heard that.

[C]

And I think a lot, even when we had like dawn or these, the like The World War II veterans at Iwo Jima, hearing him tell that story, he's like, yeah, you just. He's like, well, got my flamethrower right? Just kill.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Don't have a choice.

[C]

Yeah. It's not. That's the best way to say it's. You're in war. It's not a choice. It is survival.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Get your. That is the only way you're going to get home. That is the only way you're going to get your buddies home. Is that. And using knife. Guess what that if is day or night. If you sneak up on somebody and you're trying to do it quick and efficient, it's like, hey, I don't. I can't give away my position. So it's boom, let's act now. Force recon. I guarantee you trained very much so on that surprise element. And then violence of action or violence force.

[A]

They. We got a mission from the CIA to go into a POW camp. We had some American POWs that had been captured and was being held. And my team was selected to go in there by the CIA and, and get them out. So we trained for a week or so and. And they drop us into the camp. Not in the camp, but a little ways from it. And then we had to walk to the camp and we, yeah, we killed the guards and all hell broke loose. And some of their reinforcements came in, but we didn't get the POWs. We were out there about four days, you know, getting to the camp and looking for the POWs. American POWs. Now they had some other prisoners there and we were led to the camp. The CIA gave me a guy named Lapp. Lapp had been in the camp and the North Vietnamese thought that he was too easy on the Americans. So they put him in the camp, teach him a lesson. And Lapp escaped and was picked up by our guys in CIA. They brought him to me. So I kept Lapp with me and he went into the, into the camp. We repelled in and you know, we were trying to find. The CIA said they probably were this, the POWs was probably in the middle camp. We got to the first one and we killed the guards, but we didn't see any POWs. Then their reinforcements come in. We killed all of them. So we're thinking how the hell we're going to get out of here. You know, time is precious and so are our pets. So time with our pets is extra precious. That's why we started Dutch. Dutch provides 24,7 access to licensed vets with unlimited virtual visits and follow ups for up to five pets. You can message a vet at any.

[C]

Time and schedule a video visit the same day.

[A]

Our vets can even prescribe medication for many ailments and shipping is always free. With D. Dutch, you'll get more time with your pets and year round peace of mind when it comes to their vet care. Well, in the middle of the jungle and we don't have any POWs and so they decided to get us out of there. So they dropped the, dropped the hoist down. So we had to get into the hoist and be lifted up one at a time. So I got everybody in a horse and the helicopter is moving around and everybody is shooting and I got them all in and I was the last man to get in the horse. I wanted to make sure nobody's left on the ground. So I got my horse in and Cachapa was moving around and I got my foot in a hole and I had the horse around me. You know, when you think about God, those were the times that I knew that God was there. And I, I was the only one on the ground and who was putting the horse around me because everybody had gone. And Sergeant Yurman yelled back down to me, hey, if you get hit, I'll come back and get you. Then he left. So I'm on the ground by myself now and I'm stuck there. My foot had got into a hole. But then I figured that somehow I got out of the hole and my horse was on me. God did that. God was with me. He helped me get that horse on. And I took off up in the air, and they were firing and my guys unloaded from the helicopter. The helicopter was mostly smoke because they were just shooting on the ground. And I got hit. I got hit in the face and my head exploded. God damn. And then my right eye closed. And they pulled me up and my SEAL corpsman pulled me in, you know, and I was. Obviously, I was alive, but I wasn't quite sure. I thought, boy, this is it. It hurt like hell. My whole face swollen up. And they laid me down in a helicopter. Then we flew back and they dropped us off at the hospital. So I was in the hospital now, and they told me they were going to send me home. I said, doc, I can't go home. You know, I got to stay with my troops. He said, no, but you can't hardly see, and you. Your body's not in good enough shape, so we're going to send you home. And when they left, I called a corpsman. Young black kid. I say, pardon, get me a jeep. He said, what do you want a jeep for, sir? I said, get me the jeep. He come back with his jeep. And I got in the jeep, went back to my unit.

[C]

You acquired a jeep? Just.

[A]

Yeah. And I got to my unit. I stayed with him. They had moved up to Kon, and I had a bandage on my eye, but I could see. And I figured, I'll get to Khe Sanh and I'll stay with my troops. If I'm going to die, I'll die fight with my troops. I went to ksan, but before I went to ksan, one of my guys says, hey, hey, Lieutenant, I got a flight going to Hong Kong. Would you like to go? I said, you know, what the hell, I don't mind. So I got on a plane, went to Hong Kong, and, yeah, I don't mind.

[C]

Yeah, what'd you do in Hong Kong?

[A]

Yeah, that's. My niece is here. I don't want to tell that story. I don't want to tell that story. Yeah, it was instant, but I spent five days there.

[C]

R and R.

[A]

But the British owned Hong Kong at that time. But there was an assassination attempt on my life. I never told her these stories. Her son graduated from MIT.

[C]

Dam.

[B]

Well, you don't look old enough to have a son graduating from mit.

[A]

Mit. Yeah.

[C]

Good job, huh?

[A]

So.

[B]

How long was LAP with you guys? Because I remember hearing another story that you had him sleeping in your tent with You?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he went out to use the restroom one night. And you were worried the Marine guards were going to shoot him because they think he was a NVA spy.

[A]

You know, Lap was 19 years old, young guy, and CI had given them to me, so I kept him in my tent with me. And he knew some English. And when I got a picture from my wife, I showed it to him, and he laughed, you know, and we had fun talking about things that he could talk about. And I asked him, why did he escape from the POW camp that he put him in? And he said he was tired of being in North Vietnam. He want to. You know, the Americans were helping the South Vietnamese, so he wanted to come to South Vietnam. Vietnamese so he could enjoy all the things that the Americans had. We had a lot of stuff, and he wasn't getting anything in the POW camp, so he escaped. CIA picked him up. So I got him now, and he want to talk about America, but a little bit of English he had, and he thought that we had all, everything, all the food in the world and these type of things. And I said, yeah, America's worth fighting for. And I gave him a rifle, didn't put the ammunition in it. I was a little concerned, but I don't know, this guy might. He might turn on us. But I thought I had him. I thought I had him. He was sleep there with me, and, you know, sometime I'd wake up just to check on him. And at night when he got up, went to the head, and I thought that they were going to kill him. So I went and got him and told him, hey, Lap, don't wake me up. Let me. He said, but you were tired. You know, we've been training all day. So I was a little tired. So he thought he would go by himself where. And wake me up. But when we were at the camp, the POW camp, I made sure I got him in a horse to get him out of there. Somebody somewhere along the line said, well, if he were trying to get in the aircraft, why you leave him behind? Couldn't do that. You know, he trusted me and I trusted him. You know, I just thought that the time we spent together and what he said about the picture that I sent to him, I think he could have been any American teenager. He would have done well here in America, but he never got a chance. Now when we brought him back, I gave him back to the CIA, and I wonder, whatever happened to Lapp. I wished I could have brought him home. You think about these things, you know, but we survived It POW operation and came back empty handed. We grieved for a few days that we went through all this training and kill all those nva. We didn't get the Americans, but we had made a good effort, did a really good effort.

[C]

What is one of your most proud moments as a Marine? What is one moment during either war, back at training or with your guys where you're like, this is when I was the most proud?

[A]

Well, there are a lot of moments at my age. I'm 88 years old, I fought two wars. I have 19 holes that I bled from. I spent time in the Middle East. But there are a lot of moments that I was proud of. You know, I was a family man too. I had a son. I was proud of him because he was born blind and he learned to play the piano, the flute, the melodica, the organ.

[C]

Whoa.

[A]

He could write in braille. And I was so proud of him. He died in my arms. I was holding him when he closed his eyes. Died of appendicitis. I sued the federal government and I won the case. I went to court. I went to court. I told him that my son should not have died. You failed him. And they paid me a lot of money. I won the court case. And, you know, I took that money and I went to. Went to. I gave a lot to charity and things like that. Then I went to California and that's when I did the documentary and all those things. But it wasn't the money on my son. I was so proud of him because he learned to do a lot of things. You know, I missed him so much. He's buried up in Arlington with my wife and my son with him. Buried up in Arlington. And there's a place for me.

[C]

What's your son's name?

[A]

Gary.

[C]

Gary. That sounds like an amazing individual.

[A]

Yeah, he was good. He was good.

[C]

Guys, you're parenting. Also, just to have a blind kiddo still crushed life like that. Learn piano. I can't play a single instrument, so he's leagues above me. That's amazing.

[A]

Well, you're talking about the most important parts in my life. My God, there are times that, you know, like when I was given to a white family, when I got sick, had some sort of childhood sickness in my folks who were farmers. Somehow they must have given. Must have had some connection with that family. They were probably the owners of the farm and they took me in, as the story goes. I mean, I don't know for sure, but that's the story that was passed down to me by my aunts and uncles who all pretty much lived together and must have helped me out. I live and got to Baltimore and then went to school and joined the military. So collectively, that's a proud moment for me. But when you say the most proud, it's hard to say because I've had a lot of proud moments and a lot of folks that, you know, a lot of folks that impacted my life. And I would not be here had it not been for, say, Sergeant Yman, who was my platoon sergeant, he covered my ass more than once. You know, when we run up on that. Run up on that tiger. Tigers at that time, when they heard the combat, they would search out these areas and they would eat the bodies that were left behind. Yeah. But anyway, tigers would be terrifying.

[C]

Large cats in general are terrifying.

[B]

Tigers are the worst, though.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

£700.

[C]

Large. Large. What? Tell us about the book. You wrote this. How. When did you write this? How long ago did it come out?

[A]

Because this is about 2018. Yeah, I wrote this. Some of it based on the letters that I wrote home to Daddy. And I wrote a second one that's a little bit more personal. But this book, Faith through the Storm, well, I don't know, I just named it that, and it talked about, you know, going to war. And there's some things in here that, you know, I think that you could learn from. This is a young family man going to war to defend my country. And in some places in the United States, I couldn't get a drink of water at that time. I couldn't walk up to a fountain and get a drink of water. They had white and colored, you know, I couldn't sit in a bus. You know, there were things that, you know, that I couldn't do because that's the way the country was at that time. You couldn't vote and all those things. So a lot of racism, you know, but I figured that's not going to stop me. And a lot of the units I was in, you know, I saw racism, but, you know, like, nobody thought I could swim. You know, I made three combat dives in the fence of this country. You know, I swam miles and miles. I taught Marines to swim. So I was defying the odds. Folks said I would never make it as an officer. I made it to major. I got selected for lieutenant colonel. But, yeah, those are things that in spite of what folks thought that I could not do as an African American, I could do. All I wanted was an opportunity. Just give me a chance, you know, don't say that I I can't do it because of the color of my skin. I could do it, but now when I got the chance, damn it, I had to get it done. You can't sit back and say, well, I'm here. I fought in a year in those damn jungles. I fought in Lebanon in 1958, killed my first human being in the mountains.

[B]

What was it that your dad told you that you always remembered?

[A]

Yeah. If 10 men start up a flight of steps, you believe that you be the one that get to the top. You have to believe that there a lot of things that he. My father was not an educated man. Neither was my family. You know, we were farmers, you know, and. But he had a philosophy, and I didn't know my grandparents never met him. But in the family, you know, I'm sure we were descendants of slaves, you know, that's probably the way it was. I don't know. They came from Africa and, and landed here in this country. I went to a place called Bishopville where I was born a couple of years ago, and that's where the slaves came in South Carolina, from Africa. And you read the stories, how they were treated, you know, all that is documented now they've got a museum down in South Carolina that talks about how the slaves came from Africa and became slaves and learned to survive. And my family is a part of that. And I don't have memories of that. I wasn't born then, but there are descendants. Like, I didn't know my grandparents. I know who they were, but I was just told that. And like this child here, she's learning.

[C]

Because.

[A]

We carry that history as best we can. I don't have it all, but I do remember certain things. Didn't know my grandparents, but I'm sure their grandparents were probably slaves and whatever, or descendants of slaves. But in spite of all of that, I became the best that I could bear.

[D]

And having that opportunity here to record this history, to be able to pass down is. That's. It's a. It's a major honor to be able to have you here to. To be able to share all of that.

[C]

You're never a victim, which is. You just crush life. No matter what adversity you face, you're like, I'm gonna be the best at this. I'm going to crush it. And I'm gonna come out and top and then lead from the front. And you do like proper leadership. It's like you'll be the first on the battlefield, last one to leave. You care about your guys and holy shit. Is that so awesome?

[A]

I still hear in front of them. You know, I had one the other day come up from Georgia and brought his wife and his daughter. Came up and spent the day with me. You know, I get flowers. I get calls from troops that I fought with that survived. Not many of them, but it's wonderful for me at my age to think back and know that I did the best I could because I feared no man. I didn't fear anybody. I fought day and night and I swam the oceans. I didn't get that fear because I knew that I was a marine. I was the best there was. God damn it. You're not going to feed Jim Capers. You can't do that. No, no, you can't do that. I'm. Right now I'm in a damn wheelchair. God damn it. Frank is wheeling me around. But it wasn't always this way. I ran from Philadelphia to Camp Museum, 550 miles.

[B]

Why.

[A]

That'S so funny far, I don't know. Just like, let's go do that. Yeah, we did that and we survived it.

[D]

I think here in front of us, we've got a pretty detailed account of exactly how hard you were to kill.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

Also, that boa constrictor, hella big.

[B]

There's a picture of it in there.

[D]

A big ass snake.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[D]

Well, for those of those who are watching this that want to read more about your story, where can they find your books?

[A]

Frank has a bunch of them. Frank does have a lot of. But you can also.

[C]

Frank's phone number is. But you can order them on Amazon Prime.

[D]

Okay, so these are on Amazon.

[A]

Yeah, perfect.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Amazon Prime. Faith through the storm. Oh, brother. I can't stress how thankful we are for you to be here. I will have Nick close.

[B]

I'm sorry, hold on, I have a question.

[C]

Hold on.

[B]

This picture says Gomer number two.

[A]

Yeah, well, Gomer number one, we caught down in Panama.

[D]

There was a second snake, sir. A second snake?

[A]

Yeah, we caught Garment number one down in Panama and we brought him home and then we decided to take him up to the zoo in Washington. And he died on the way up. It was cold and he died on the way up. He didn't make the trip to the museum.

[B]

How big was this one?

[A]

He was about 17ft.

[B]

Yeah, we got them just rolling up on big ass snakes. I'm keeping this.

[C]

Guys, I got an idea. Or the most craziest.

[B]

You don't know what snakes and canoes have in common.

[C]

Getting to base and be like, can.

[A]

We borrow the helicopter? And then, yeah.

[D]

Just dudes being dudes.

[A]

Yeah, right. It was a wild time up on that mountain. They hit us one night with 122 rockets. And I had. I wasn't sick, but I wasn't able to move like I would normally move. So I was in my rack. We had some little cots there you laid on. And I could hear the artillery coming in. I could hear some of the buildings being crashed. I'm lying there and Sergeant Yerman hit the door and he said, lieutenant, get out of here. I said, I can't move. And he left and another building got hit by a rocket and. And I figured, oh, gee. They were trying to walk these rockets in. And I'm lying there and I could hear him being walked on the other side. And Sergeant Yurman came in, still. Lieutenant, you all right? I said, no, I came over. So he came over to me. This is Sergeant Uran, my platoon sergeant came over to me and he sat down on my rack. I said, serge, you got to get out here. They're getting close. You better get out of here. One of the bravest things I ever saw or heard. He sat down on my rack and he took my hand, said, lieutenant, I'm with you. I'm with you. I said, sergeant, you need to get out of here. They're getting close. He said, well, if I gotta die, let me die with the only friend I ever had. And then Lace went out. He sat there with me. He died in Arizona last year alone. They found him dead in his tent. But he was a hero. Maptoon Sartin. And what he said to me that day, if I have to die, let me die with the only friend ever had. But we survived it. We survived it and he survived it. Then we didn't see each other for many years. And then I hired a company to locate him. He was living by himself in a mountain in Arizona. And I flew out there and lived with him and his little hut there for two weeks. I caught pneumonia while I was there. My wife said, you know, you shouldn't be going out there, it's cold. But I went to see my platoon sergeant. Yeah, and he's gone now. Matter of fact, I gave him that high powered pistol that I brought home from Vietnam. But anyway, those were powerful moments for me and my memories because he was a hero.

[C]

I will if I can. And I asked the guys too. It was, if there's any of the guys that are still around with your team that you ever want to just fly out or have them fly out to see You. We will cover that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

We will cover their hotel and their travel to come visit you and hang out. I will let you know that if you guys have any other people he's with, that's Adam speaking for the community and all of us, we would love to cover something like that.

[D]

At least we can do. We appreciate your time.

[A]

I've never heard anything quite like that. No. I've got Purple Stanton, who's my M79 man, and he got hit real bad. And. And matter of fact, when he got hit, he fell back on me. I was already kind of banged up, leaning up against a tree, and I reached around him to take off his dog tags because I thought he was dead and blood was coming out of his mouth and his nose. And I said, corporal, we're going to get out of here. He said, I don't know, Lieutenant, I don't think we're going to make it this time. I said, yeah, we will. We're going to get out here. He said, yeah, we're going to. Were going to get out. And another bravest thing I ever heard. He said, hand me a rifle, sir. I can still fight. Just hand me a rifle. I can still fight. He's lying on me, knowing. My corpsman ran over and jumped on me, and he said, lieutenant, you've been shot. Said, damn it, Doc, I know that. You know, I'm bleeding all over the place. He gave me the news, lieutenant, you've been shot. Oh, God damn it, Doc, I know I've been shot. Get off of me. And he bandaged up what he could, put bandages on us, and he looked at the dog, but the dog was gone, you know, but he checked every man. Everybody was wounded, no casualties, except for King, the war dog, but everybody was wounded badly. And we called in the helicopter and they landed in the middle of chaos. But, yeah, we got on. And there were so many stories about individual troops, ones that I knew, you know, and they were like my sons, you know, like the. The. The kid who did the mail. He'd come over sometimes, hey, Lieutenant, you got two letters from your wife, you know, and. And when I got wounded, whatever time it was, I was in my tent, couldn't get out. He'd come into my tent, the mailman, and bring me mail, or sometimes the guy from the mess hall. We were out for, you know, four or five days and didn't eat very much food. They'd bring me food for the mess hall. You know, you hear the mess up, mess cans dangling, and they'd come in there and, and give me a, give me a meal, you know, just everybody's helping each other. You know, the, the motor T guys, you know, they had a jeep there that I used run around the area. They made sure my jeep was always ready to go. You know, all these in the com guy, the radio guys, everybody was working to keep us alive in the field, you know. And when we came back, they gave us food or they come back and every man was, was able to have one beer, you know. And when I got commission, I decided, well, I walked down to the Officers Club. So I went down to the Officers Club. I had never been in the Officers Club before and, and it was different, kind of dark in there. There's a little bit of music playing. So I walked in and I looked around. All white guys, of course they all looked at me, but they went back to doing what they were doing. I walked over to the bar and I ordered a rum and coke. And I stood there and looked around. Damn, this is the Officers Club. I'm an officer now. And then the door came open and this huge guy was at the door. And he started walking toward the bar. And I'm at the bar, I'm thinking, oh, it's on now. He's going to say something and I have to tear this damn place up. I'm stand to bar. And he walked over, he looked at me, stopped in front of me and he looked in front of me and I'm thinking, how do I take his throat out? Or something like that. I'm thinking about killing this guy.

[C]

Just choose the violence.

[A]

He told him. He said, hey, lieutenant, God damn, it's so good to see you. It's about time. And he shook my hand, said, let me buy you a drink. He'd never seen a black officer before, but he's, I'm thinking about killing this son of a bitch. And, and he's, I mean, just natural because he walked over at the bar and I thought it was going to be a fight. So I'm prepared to kill this guy because I'm good at that kind. I have a third degree black belt, karate and savate and JUDO and so.

[C]

Nine millimeter.

[A]

Yeah, black belt and click.

[C]

556. Third degree black belt.

[A]

556. But the guy was a pilot and he was so kind to me. He said, I never seen anyone like you in this club. But he said, anytime I can help you, it's about time. And I felt foolish because I felt, I'm going to kill this guy.

[D]

And slowly Put the knife down.

[A]

Yeah, so put the knife down. But, you know, that moment, you know, I learned something. Everybody's not bad, you know, and here's a guy there buy me a drink and saying kind words to me, you know, And I felt guilty because I'm the bad guy. I should not have been thinking that way. But in my whole life, I never had folks that, you know, that said those kind things to me. You know, they were always trying to shoot me and kill me or something like that. But I learned something about how to be a gentleman, and that didn't last long, but it was a good experience for me. Welcome to a community that I had no knowledge of. I didn't know anything about being an officer, but there were people like that who learned me along the way. It's a learning experience, and I used to teach my troops. After I became a senior officer, I would teach my young officers, but it's not bad. You got to give this guy a chance, man.

[B]

Well said.

[C]

I have. That was. This is one of my favorite ones.

[B]

Yeah, me too.

[C]

These are for sure, hands down. These are you. I'm speechless.

[B]

You said you weren't good at this podcast stuff before we started. You're showing all of us up is.

[A]

What'S going on here.

[C]

This was amazing.

[D]

Happy to listen.

[C]

We were just locked in.

[A]

Yeah, you.

[B]

You did great.

[C]

Crushed it, brother.

[A]

Crushed it.

[C]

Nick, you ready to close?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for coming to one of and maybe my favorite episode of the Unsubscribe podcast. I was joined here today by Eli Double Tap, Major Jim Capers, Brandon Herrera, and myself. See you guys later.

[C]

Fat electrician, not donut operator.

[B]

Really, guys?

[D]

I didn't notice.

[A]

Bye.

[C]

What?

[B]

We taste the same.

[A]

Know my name will be my name.