Eli (1:55)

And that lasts until Monday evening. And yes, for the items made for Veterans Month, 100% of the profits are still going towards those nonprofits. And then a portion of this entire weekend, the sales will be going towards those nonprofits. Also, let's get some cool stuff and change some lives in the process. Y' all are amazing. Thank you so much.

Ian McCollum (2:14)

Love you.

Eli (2:15)

Okay, everyone, ready on the count of three. Ready? Three, two, one. Oh, it sprays me in the face in slow motion. Oh, slow it down, Finn. Okay, zoom in. Oh. Now put pink cheeks on Kawhi.

Brandon Herrera (2:31)

Eli. This early in the episode as the.

Eli (2:35)

Echelon explodes in my face like, oh, Cody.

Donut Operator (2:41)

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the unsubscribed podcast. I was joined today by. I am joined today by Eli Double Tap Ian for Forgotten Weapons, Brandon Herrera and myself, donut Operator. Thank you so much for being here.

Ian McCollum (2:53)

What's up, everyone?

Eli (2:54)

How y' all doing? Do we got Ian on? Finally, after almost four years and a.

Brandon Herrera (2:59)

Thousand messages for obvious reasons, I am very excited for this episode.

Ian McCollum (3:03)

I'm looking forward to you.

Eli (3:04)

We've never heard of you. We haven't seen this a million, million times.

Ian McCollum (3:10)

Dude.

Eli (3:10)

Welcome.

Donut Operator (3:11)

Thank you.

Eli (3:11)

How are you doing, man?

Ian McCollum (3:12)

I'm doing well. It's fun to be out here.

Eli (3:14)

We're excited. This is going to be the most autistic episode we have ever had. So don't kid yourself.

Donut Operator (3:22)

He's here for the AK50, not us, buddy.

Brandon Herrera (3:24)

Like I said, until we have a train conductor on the podcast, this is probably going to be the one that's next week.

Ian McCollum (3:30)

I hope so, because I'm so far out of most of the world that you guys live in that it's going to be gun nerdery or I don't know, I'm just going to sit here and have nothing to say.

Donut Operator (3:41)

We're here for it, man. I think we just wanted to put our two biggest gun nerds together and have a fun conversation about gun things.

Ian McCollum (3:49)

Yeah, I'm up for that. I'm always up for that.

Eli (3:51)

History guns. I mean, this is going to be a fun one. This is. Everyone just get out the popcorn and listen to everyone nerd out because there is a million questions. I know Brandon probably already had has a ton.

Brandon Herrera (4:04)

I had to stop some conversations before the podcast kicked off because we were already getting into stuff. I'm like, this is such good podcast material.

Ian McCollum (4:11)

Yes. If you, if you talk about it before the cameras roll, you lose it. I've learned that that's.

Eli (4:16)

I'm glad we didn't do lunch today, cuz this is one of the ones that's like, yeah, this is going to be a hard one. We've already nerded out before you guys got here, nerding out on firearms. I was like, oh, shit.

Brandon Herrera (4:26)

Have you ever had it where like, you're. You're recording a video and you do like this whole long spiel and then like the footage is either like no audio or something fucks up. Oh yeah, and you gotta redo it. And you're like, fuck. I've already said it once, so I have no idea what I've covered in the second take.

Ian McCollum (4:41)

No, the problem is, for me is, like, once I've done it, a lot of it leaves my head and it's like, oh, I have to go back to the beginning and go back through all of my notes and reference material because.

Eli (4:54)

Oh, God. And you do deep dives.

Ian McCollum (4:57)

So I'm much more likely to just use it with terrible audio or if there's any way it can be salvaged.

Eli (5:03)

I'll give a quick synopsis for the people that don't know who you are.

Ian McCollum (5:09)

Okay, so I run a website and YouTube channel called forgotten weapons.com, which is essentially mini documentaries on interesting and unusual firearms. The ultimate goal is basically to have video content on every military firearm ever made, which is an impossible goal, but that's the guiding point.

Brandon Herrera (5:32)

God damn, are you close at this point.

Ian McCollum (5:34)

You know, the thing is, I'm never going to run out. They're fractal, like, you know. Oh, you should do a video on the ak. Well, okay. There's nine different countries that made them. Okay. And then each country did. Well, we got the milled ones, then we got the stamped ones, then we got the 545 ones, and then we got the 5.56 ones. And then inside each one of those branches is just another fractal set.

Eli (5:57)

Batman, you are the guy. That's crazy. I didn't even think about that. If I'm looking up a specific weapon history about it, knowledge or anything, your videos are the first one to pop up.

Brandon Herrera (6:09)

Hey, Cody, would you remind. Would you mind removing that dagger from my ribs?

Eli (6:16)

Well, it's like, if I'm going for a historic, like the G. What's the. The.

Brandon Herrera (6:20)

Oh, with the PSG1 or the G11.

Eli (6:23)

The G11 is a good example where it's like those. Oh, I just want to see the internals really quick because you have that completely different side of content which you both are crushing, and you get to see the difference on how you present it.

Brandon Herrera (6:34)

I feel like you're the only one who's really gotten hands on the G11 in, like, a meaningful way.

Ian McCollum (6:38)

Jonathan Ferguson has.

Brandon Herrera (6:39)

Oh, that's true. Well, yeah, well, he's cheating, though. He's got a massive collection to choose from.

Donut Operator (6:43)

Which one was the G11?

Ian McCollum (6:45)

The great fox Kraut. Space Magic.

Brandon Herrera (6:47)

The Brick Looking one.

Eli (6:49)

Gotcha.

Brandon Herrera (6:50)

Call of duty Black Ops 1, I believe.

Eli (6:53)

The one that. It is wild to think you are gonna hand this off to a soldier and be like, hey, your weapon's dirty. Can you fix that malfunction? And then, like, open it up.

Ian McCollum (7:03)

It's 4.6 millimeter caseless, three round hyper burst at like, 1800. Yeah, yeah.

Eli (7:09)

We talked about.

Donut Operator (7:10)

Someone was on here before and we talked about. I think that it's the one you called. You just said the grandfather clock.

Brandon Herrera (7:15)

Crowd space magic.

Ian McCollum (7:17)

So here's the thing. I have a video taking it apart, how it works, the history, what it was intended to do. Didn't get to shoot it for obvious reasons. It's in a collection. There's no ammunition. You ever tried to find ammunition for G11?

Brandon Herrera (7:32)

I can honestly tell you I have not.

Ian McCollum (7:34)

Well, how the fuck does it shoot? 4.6 millimeter, caseless?

Donut Operator (7:40)

Oh, yeah.

Ian McCollum (7:41)

It's mildly proprietary.

Brandon Herrera (7:42)

You can't go to Bass Pro.

Donut Operator (7:45)

You can't get caseless ammo at Bass Pro.

Ian McCollum (7:47)

I have 11 rounds.

Donut Operator (7:49)

How much do you think each one of those rounds is worth?

Ian McCollum (7:52)

Well, I don't know. No one's actually shooting it.

Donut Operator (7:55)

You can name the price, but.

Eli (7:56)

So gyrojet. Look how much? If you have OG Gyrojet, it's true.

Brandon Herrera (7:59)

Those rounds are like 200 bucks a piece.

Ian McCollum (8:01)

And by the way, if you have original Gyrojet ammo, shoot it now, because that stuff is deteriorating, and in 20 years, none of it's gonna work. Today, a lot of it doesn't work. And in 20 years, none of it will work. So if you want to shoot a gyro jet, do it now.

Brandon Herrera (8:13)

So at least one out of two, maybe one out of three rounds that we fired for the video, because I don't know how many rounds we fired that day. It was maybe like 10, 15, 1 out of 2, at least 1 out of 3 had some sort of malfunction where like, maybe only half the jets actually went off. And you could see it in the super slow mo, like unusable high speed footage where it's completely destabilized.

Ian McCollum (8:34)

That actually would be some of the most interesting high speed footage. If you go back and look really cool.

Brandon Herrera (8:38)

If you look in the video, you can see some of it where, like, not all of the rock are firing. And it's just really weird.

Donut Operator (8:45)

It's trying its best.

Ian McCollum (8:46)

Yeah. So at the G11, I would love to shoot a G11, but it would be really uninteresting video because nothing happens, nothing ejects.

Eli (8:58)

Oh, yeah.

Ian McCollum (8:59)

It's one hefty recoil impulse and three holes downrange. And that's it.

Brandon Herrera (9:06)

That's where you would need ballistic high speed just so people could see rounds leaving the barrel.

Ian McCollum (9:11)

That's right. All you'd see recoil, impulse. I think you'd see the magazine move moving back and the bullets coming out. And that's it.

Eli (9:16)

So it's like there's no action. All the action's internal.

Ian McCollum (9:19)

Everything's internal. It's caseless. So there's no brass coming out. There's no ejection port. There's nothing.

Eli (9:24)

And that's a boring ass video. You're right. You slow that down and it is just.

Brandon Herrera (9:29)

But it's still some of the only firing footage of that that exists outside of 360p.

Eli (9:33)

Yeah, that's what's crazy.

Ian McCollum (9:35)

So I still love to do it, but in my head I just console myself with like you said, get Knowles.

Donut Operator (9:42)

And ballistic high speed up there. At least to get it coming of the barrel. And then explain how boring the gun is. That would be kind of cool.

Brandon Herrera (9:50)

I don't really watch a lot of gun tube anymore. It's kind of one of those weird things. It's like. It feels like work. So like I don't watch other gun tubers. I would watch the shit out of that.

Ian McCollum (9:59)

If someone else films it, I'll. I'll watch it too. Absolutely. Yeah.

Eli (10:03)

Like this is what I want to see.

Brandon Herrera (10:05)

So the owner of Ox Ranch, I think I can say this. I don't think that's like some sort of nuclear secret. He's got one of the early. I think it's the Steyr acr.

Ian McCollum (10:13)

Oh yeah. I filmed that gun.

Brandon Herrera (10:15)

Really?

Ian McCollum (10:16)

Probably the one he's got. No shit.

Brandon Herrera (10:18)

He's got a couple of rounds. Like the crayon looking ammunition and shit. Yeah, he's got a couple like six, seven rounds. I don't know how much he's got, but like that's. Where the fuck do you find that?

Ian McCollum (10:26)

That was one that I wanted to shoot. Like that was one where there was actually some minuscule chance of shooting it. It didn't work out.

Brandon Herrera (10:32)

But it's also.

Ian McCollum (10:34)

They're all flechettes. Really? Yeah, that's what I believe.

Brandon Herrera (10:37)

So.

Ian McCollum (10:38)

Yeah, that's the one.

Donut Operator (10:40)

Just her Steyr acr. That's what came up.

Ian McCollum (10:42)

What the little flechette.

Eli (10:43)

Wait, what the fuck's that thing for? I have never heard of this weapon.

Brandon Herrera (10:47)

So.

Ian McCollum (10:48)

So the idea of the Flechettes, the whole ACR program was how do we increase hit probability? Because like soldiers fire and then they miss. How do you fix that? And one idea is you fire a bunch of rounds real fast before the.

Brandon Herrera (11:02)

Recoil impulse hits fenn, pull up the Steyr acr.

Eli (11:07)

Wow. Okay.

Ian McCollum (11:08)

One of them is, what if we shoot space weapon? What if we have like 4500ft per second muzzle ve 12 grain flechettes so your mean point blank range is like 600 yards. You don't adjust for anything. Hold center mass, pull trigger.

Eli (11:23)

Yeah, it's just cooking. But then.

Ian McCollum (11:25)

So you're less likely to miss because it's just a laser beam.

Eli (11:28)

But then what's the damage on that?

Ian McCollum (11:30)

Probably just like not great.

Donut Operator (11:32)

Yeah. And. And it's not going to go through fucking brick or trees or leaves. Like it'll fucking go all over the place.

Ian McCollum (11:40)

One of the early flechettes, they were experimenting with flechette rounds back into the 50s. And one of the early ones they ended up canning because it was causing serious health problems for the soldiers. Because when the plastic sabot was separated from the flechette, it basically vaporized. And the guys were inhaling this plastic particulate vapor from every sabot. They fired at, you know, 1200 RPM.

Donut Operator (12:06)

Yeah, it's going straight to their balls.

Brandon Herrera (12:07)

Yep.

Donut Operator (12:08)

Microplastics, dude.

Eli (12:10)

That's where it started right there.

Donut Operator (12:12)

Full of shit rounds.

Ian McCollum (12:13)

So the other fun, just to round it out, the other fun option in this set of like, how do we increase hit probability is put multiple bullets in one case. So duplex and triplex ammo, where you stack two or three bullets in a single cartridge case. And they made this stuff for.308 for.30.06. Mostly those two, because that's what the army was using at the time. And then the idea is you have one point of aim and the bullets spread out a bit and you get the same effect as with three rounds out of a G11 or two rounds out of an AN94. But it's one cartridge and you don't have to have hyper burst because you're firing three bullets with one case.

Eli (12:53)

So how was the downfall on that though? Because it doesn't sound. I understand in theory you're like, oh, we'll just put it all behind this single bullet. They're just in line. But it seems like it would.

Ian McCollum (13:02)

So like 30.06triplex, you got three bullets. But in order for the gun to not catastrophically fail, the three bullets have to weigh the same as your normal one bullet. So you're firing three 50 grain bullets. It's essentially, you know, three light.32 autos. Yeah, there were issues of accuracy. You don't want the bullets to like actually stack on top of each other, but you also don't want them to go super far away.

Eli (13:28)

Yeah, you want like a little like a slight. Because again, think about it. At 100 yards, this turns into this really quickly. So like okay.

Ian McCollum (13:37)

So I have, I've actually done some shooting with duplex 308 and it was like at 100 yards, we got about a 12 inch spread between the bullets, which I think is really good. Yeah, like that's that distance of. If you have a perfect shot, you might get two hits, but you'll definitely get one. Yeah. And if you, if you normally would have just missed, one of those two bullets will probably hit. A lot of the downfall of this stuff was old school people in administration who were brought up on marksmanship. And how do you have marksmanship when there's two bullets? It'll never hit where you want it to hit, therefore, not possible.

Donut Operator (14:16)

I'm trying to figure out what makes that better than a shotgun with a good choke.

Ian McCollum (14:22)

You have a lot higher muzzle velocity and a lot better ballistics. An actual Spitzer bullet. Yeah, you're still getting 3,000 2700ft per second.

Brandon Herrera (14:33)

The only problem is when you go to 400 yards, you've got like the Pulp Fiction where there's like six hits around the guy.

Ian McCollum (14:40)

Quite possibly. Shit. Yeah, exactly.

Eli (14:42)

You're hitting the person and then the dude. Eight persons away at that spread, depending on how far it's going.

Brandon Herrera (14:49)

Also not recommended for hostage rescue.

Ian McCollum (14:52)

Exactly.

Eli (14:53)

You get both at the same time. You're like go.

Donut Operator (14:57)

Spitzing his mission. This is a Russian no hostage.

Ian McCollum (15:01)

No hostage situation.

Donut Operator (15:02)

Dude. Just pump fentanyl gas in there.

Brandon Herrera (15:04)

Yep.

Donut Operator (15:04)

Everything will be fine, dude.

Brandon Herrera (15:06)

10, 10 terrorists, 90 hostages, 100 body bags. Mission accomplished.

Eli (15:12)

Yeah, mission accomplished. Like, no, dude, that, that, that kind of tech is wild. Or just developing it because how far I came, like in my head, that sounds like, like, oh, that's not going to work. Or here is the downside to it. But we're just, we tested that in.

Ian McCollum (15:29)

The 60s, 50s, 50s through 90s, essentially. It was a whole series of programs. So the final culmination of it that we see were the four guns. The Colt ACR, the Steyr ACR, the G11 and the AAI advanced. Was it Aeronautics? Advanced Armaments Inc. Had a flechette firing goofy rifle, but that was in the 90s. The Germans came close to adopting the G11 and just barely escaped with their lives from it. But it goes all the way back to the 50s. And there are some bizarre freaking rifles that were in those programs.

Brandon Herrera (16:10)

I was just talking about this because I just did a video on the Lewis gun and I find it so intriguing because you've got pretty much like ballistics and, and, well, actually, well, I don't know what you say Kinetics, just muzzle loaders, rifles in general stayed pretty much the same from like the 1500s to the mid-1800s. There really wasn't a lot of variety. And then as soon as you had the centerfire cartridge, very soon after you started having like machine guns and all sorts of things and it was just like your tech tree exploded. You get there's like 8,000 different ways to do it.

Ian McCollum (16:44)

So you get two major inflection points like that. The first one is smokeless powder. Because smokeless powder allows you to have self loading firearms. As long as you've got black powder. There's so much fouling that there were people who tried, who experimented with self loading action. Sorry, I should say the second one is smokeless powder. The first one is self contained metallic cartridges.

Brandon Herrera (17:06)

Yeah.

Ian McCollum (17:06)

And that, that doesn't start with primers, but it very quickly becomes the centerfire. Modern centerfire case for sure. And that allows you to have a batch of cartridges at the ready to use in some sort of repeating weapon.

Brandon Herrera (17:20)

Because we're looking at. And it's neat to see that right before that really took off. The things that people did before that, like the first ever thing that came out of what became Smith and Wesson was the volcanic. And right now we're working on, you know, the volcanic pistol. You'd probably know it from like Red Dead. The little lever action pistol. Complete dog shit. They have no muzzle energy whatsoever. But it was like a self contained projectile. And we're working on reverse engineering the ammo right now.

Ian McCollum (17:47)

Oh, cool.

Brandon Herrera (17:48)

Super. Just a bizarre concept. And you very quickly realize like, oh, this is why these never took off.

Ian McCollum (17:53)

Yeah. So you take a bullet, a lead bullet with a hollow base. And you make the base, the inside hollow section bigger and put the powder in that and put a primer in that and then like a little sealant cup of something. I don't remember what they used on the back end. But then I was about to say wax. Wax or paper or something like that. Yeah.

Eli (18:14)

You want to borrow my ghost bed pillow?

Donut Operator (18:15)

Does it smell like you?

Brandon Herrera (18:17)

Yes.

Eli (18:21)

Do you feel that? Cooling technology.

Donut Operator (18:22)

It's definitely not a hot pillow.

Brandon Herrera (18:25)

I gotta get out of here. Give me my pillow.

Eli (18:28)

I'm the one that has to sleep here. You, you guys have your own houses in your own pillows.

Ian McCollum (18:32)

Quit touching it.

Brandon Herrera (18:32)

All right, real question. Can the gang do a pillow fight?

Ian McCollum (18:36)

Not with these.

Brandon Herrera (18:37)

Little motion pillow fight. No.

Eli (18:39)

They're heavy. It'll hurt.

Brandon Herrera (18:40)

Are they really?

Eli (18:41)

Yes, they're premium. Dude, that would actually.

Brandon Herrera (18:43)

That actually I don't think I'd want to get smacked with that?

Eli (18:46)

I'm swinging it hard. Okay. Your son. You walk up and just pee off on your kid. If I smack you with this, you're going to be a ghost. And get this. They're built to last with a 20 year warranty and they have a three month free trial period.

Ian McCollum (18:59)

What do they do with all the.

Brandon Herrera (19:00)

Used mattresses that get returned?

Ian McCollum (19:02)

Not black lights.

Donut Operator (19:04)

They have a complete sleep setup for spooky sex.

Ian McCollum (19:07)

Boo.

Donut Operator (19:08)

Ghostbed has it all. Adjustable bases, sheets, pillows and full bundles to upgrade your whole bed with over.

Ian McCollum (19:15)

20 years of sleep expertise, which is really amateur hour.

Brandon Herrera (19:19)

I've been sleeping for at least 30 years.

Eli (19:21)

Family owned and handcrafted in the USA and Canada. Ew.

Ian McCollum (19:25)

Ew Canada.

Eli (19:26)

Entrusted by thousands of happy sleepers like Cody, Brandon and Nick.

Brandon Herrera (19:36)

Yep. They have over 60,000 five star reviews. And you get an extra 10% off when you use code unsubscribe at checkout.

Eli (19:44)

Head over to ghostbed.com unsubscribe to get started. That's ghostbed.com unsubscribe.

Donut Operator (19:50)

Use the code unsubscribe to sleep better and stay cooler.

Ian McCollum (19:54)

But then you have all the elements of your cartridge right here. And the bullet is the case because you've got the tip of the bullet with most of the mass and then you've got the hollow cylinder that holds the powder. The problem was in order to give it enough muzzle velocity to do anything of impact, you had to make the bullet really long. But then you had these really thin lead walls and the front of the bullet would break off from the back of the bullet and you'd have like a cylinder of bullet case at the back and the projectile, the front of the projectile would go downrange. And then the gun's dangerous. Yeah. Can't be fired again.

Brandon Herrera (20:33)

Otherwise you have these really light projectiles that don't really do anything. Like there's. I don't know if this is hyperbolized, but there's accounts of people trying to with this and failing.

Ian McCollum (20:43)

I've read that story. I don't know if I believe it or not, but it's not completely out.

Brandon Herrera (20:49)

Of the realm like Mythbusters says. Plausible kind of thing.

Ian McCollum (20:52)

Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (20:52)

I don't know if it's true, but I wouldn't doubt it.

Eli (20:55)

Skill issue.

Ian McCollum (20:56)

And they had. So they had a couple of different versions and like the handgun, one was what,31 caliber, I think. Yeah. So you know, it's even a small diameter to begin with the rifle one was bigger. I think they had a it's like 41, something like that. Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (21:10)

I don't recall off the top of my head, but we have the smaller one.

Ian McCollum (21:13)

Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (21:13)

And it's cartoonishly small.

Eli (21:15)

Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (21:15)

You look at that, you're like, I don't know how the fuck you ever.

Ian McCollum (21:17)

Made this work, but it's cool.

Brandon Herrera (21:19)

It's really neat.

Ian McCollum (21:20)

So beyond the Volganic, there was a whole series of pistols that were manually operated with ring trigger levers that mostly came out of Austria. And they are neat guns too. Like there are some with little five round clips. There's a batch of them that were made using cartridges before people really kind of came up with the idea of an extraction groove. So the base end of the cartridge is just solid and there is no. The extractor doesn't grip on a groove in the cartridge.

Brandon Herrera (21:54)

What does it do then?

Ian McCollum (21:54)

I don't remember. I knew you were gonna ask that.

Eli (21:57)

The second you said. You're like, oh, I don't remember how they did that. I don't have the answer to the question. I just made.

Brandon Herrera (22:03)

It's neat. I was just like, huh, That's a.

Ian McCollum (22:04)

Neat way of doing it.

Brandon Herrera (22:05)

What do they do instead?

Ian McCollum (22:06)

Fuck yeah.

Eli (22:07)

Science. That's magic.

Donut Operator (22:09)

He doesn't know. Podcast is over, dude.

Eli (22:13)

You'Re the professional. What the dog? What the.

Brandon Herrera (22:18)

Now they're.

Ian McCollum (22:19)

They're all super janky.

Brandon Herrera (22:20)

It's super neat too because like a lot of the, like early cartridge stuff you've got like the, the pinfire stuff.

Ian McCollum (22:25)

Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (22:25)

Which I mean, that was. The needle rifles and stuff like that. It's just super.

Eli (22:30)

The needler.

Brandon Herrera (22:31)

So strange.

Ian McCollum (22:32)

What makes those situations.

Brandon Herrera (22:33)

Halo needler.

Eli (22:34)

That's what you're talking about.

Ian McCollum (22:35)

Oh, totally, totally.

Eli (22:37)

That was old tech.

Donut Operator (22:38)

Explodes inside a little bit.

Eli (22:41)

Missiles to kill somebody.

Ian McCollum (22:43)

What makes those periods so cool is someone will invent new technology and patent it. And a lot of people think. A lot of people don't really understand how patents work. Patents are temporary protection. The idea is if you innovate and create a new product, you're rewarded with a monopoly on that product for a limited period of time. So that Bob the inventor in his garage doesn't invent something super cool and then Mega Corp just copies it and he gets nothing. Bob gets his limited time monopoly, which people can argue pros and cons on that system.

Brandon Herrera (23:16)

But Edison had some words about it, right?

Ian McCollum (23:18)

Oh, yeah.

Eli (23:20)

Contracts and lawyers, my friend.

Ian McCollum (23:21)

It is not without controversy. But that's the concept. And what happens as a result is when the new technology comes out like smokeless powder, all of a sudden it's now feasible to make self loading systems, semi auto full auto guns. And the first person who figures out the obvious way to make it work patents it. So the next guy is like, well, this is a huge open market. I want to make a machine gun, but I have to do a different thing than that guy did. So well, okay, here's the second best, most obvious, efficient way to do it. And he does that and he patents it. And about five years in, there's still people out there who want to make their fortune in this. But now the 85 best ways to do it are patented. And then you start getting these really bizarre workaround systems just. And at like 17 years after the tech comes out, all the bizarre stuff goes away. Because now the good way the patents expired and now everyone can do that. Like, that's why we have Browning pistols still today and we don't have Bergmanns and Nambus and all the other really janky early semi auto pistols.

Brandon Herrera (24:27)

It is cool as they are.

Ian McCollum (24:28)

Oh, they're super cool. But would you want to carry any of them?

Brandon Herrera (24:32)

The Mandalorian does.

Ian McCollum (24:34)

That was. I. I have questions about that. Like, there's only one place that prop master found that gun. You think there's only one gun. Where. Where else do you find it online before the Mandalorian comes out?

Brandon Herrera (24:46)

So it's like the Bergman.

Ian McCollum (24:47)

What is it? Yeah, I posted it.

Brandon Herrera (24:50)

It's like the M. What is it? The M95.

Ian McCollum (24:53)

It was. No, it was 1892. Two or 93. Okay. Because it was the. What they copied for. The Mandalorian was the very first prototype Bergman. Not even the first standard model, but the prototype. Yeah.

Eli (25:06)

Oh.

Ian McCollum (25:06)

So I got. When that came out, I got a lot of messages from people who were like, oh, my God.

Brandon Herrera (25:10)

They.

Ian McCollum (25:11)

It was either like, oh, my God, they found one, or oh, my God, they ruined one by turning it into a blank or something for the movie. Oh, shit. And the answer is no, they totally didn't. They like. It's a resin model.

Donut Operator (25:22)

The Bergman 1896.

Ian McCollum (25:24)

Yeah, it's. Yeah, but that's not. Like, it's not. It's an earlier pattern.

Brandon Herrera (25:30)

Yeah, I didn't know because. Yeah, there's there's clearly like a couple differences there. But like. Yeah, like on the. I don't know what you call that, but.

Ian McCollum (25:37)

So that's the loading gate. That's actually a thumb lever that you pull down to put the clip in.

Brandon Herrera (25:42)

Okay.

Ian McCollum (25:43)

But the very. So if you look here, it's got a.

Brandon Herrera (25:47)

Not yet.

Ian McCollum (25:47)

It wasn't. It's got a cleaning rod on the side and that's only found on the original prototype example.

Eli (25:54)

Oh, so they actually had an OG og So whoever actually.

Ian McCollum (25:57)

No, they made it. They created that thing out of resin or something.

Eli (26:01)

Yeah, but they seen that they had to deep dive to find that exact.

Ian McCollum (26:05)

And as far as I can tell, there's only one place where they could have found it. But I never heard from anybody.

Eli (26:11)

No shit.

Ian McCollum (26:12)

But if the armorer for the Mandalorian is watching this and would like to spill any details, I'd love to hear them.

Eli (26:17)

Yeah, please comment.

Ian McCollum (26:19)

Because that was. It's such a cool Star wars throwback. Yeah, because the original Star wars was all done with World War II guns with stuff glommed onto them because that's what was available and easy to use.

Brandon Herrera (26:31)

Lewis guns, MG34s, fucking STG44s all that shit.

Ian McCollum (26:36)

It's okay, so side cool stories.

Eli (26:41)

Well, just really quick. I never realized patents. The way you just describe that is how when you teach AI the exact pattern, it's the shit that gets it super far. But whatever is the most efficient way gets to the front of it. What you're saying with that the 17 years of bad tech don't make it to the front. It's hey, this is the best, easiest method that is proven. Oh, something else comes along that's better than that. Steps. That's AI training to a T. Well.

Brandon Herrera (27:10)

I mean you could also just say it's just eye.

Eli (27:12)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Brandon Herrera (27:14)

That's how we did it before they did it.

Eli (27:16)

I thought of it like that. I was like, oh shit. This is actually in that exact line is how it's done. I just never had a picture that.

Brandon Herrera (27:24)

Was the tech bro equivalent of looking at the scar in Fortnite and going, oh, they made the Fortnite gun.

Eli (27:29)

I know. I was like, huh? Wait, Holy shit. I never looked at actually patent like that where it's like, hey, most efficient things going to get proven. It's like, holy shit. Yeah, actually that is actually how that works.

Ian McCollum (27:41)

Huh?

Brandon Herrera (27:42)

No, that's just. That's just Clanker. Cultural appropriation is what that is.

Eli (27:46)

Takes a lot longer. It's not like I ran it for one hour.

Brandon Herrera (27:51)

It takes 30, 40 fucking years.

Eli (27:52)

But yeah.

Ian McCollum (27:53)

Anyway, sorry. You're a cool story. I came this close to making a fully functional Hoth Trooper. What was it? A 34 blaster?

Brandon Herrera (28:02)

I think the like STG44 clone. Yeah, yeah.

Ian McCollum (28:05)

So I was last year, Finnish brutality was held in the winter. So.

Brandon Herrera (28:11)

Okay, so I'm going time to go to Finland.

Ian McCollum (28:13)

Yeah. So I'm going to a winter match. And this was when. Yep. Yeah, exactly. This was when DK was just starting to send out their Sturmgewehrs, their US semi auto Sturmgewehrs. And I arranged to get one my gunsmith was super stoked to make because it's only like three parts. Like you need a new buttstock and we got a new rear sight leaf to modify to put a red dot with a 3D printed cage around, you know, body around it and a new buttstock and a new handguard. Like that's it. And I have an A34 blaster. I hope it's a 34.

Brandon Herrera (28:53)

I'm a 295.

Ian McCollum (28:56)

Yeah.

Eli (28:57)

A 295 blaster. Okay.

Ian McCollum (28:59)

@ any rate, the problem.

Brandon Herrera (29:01)

Still. Yeah, that's not. That's not.

Ian McCollum (29:02)

Complicated. No, no, because they took actual Sturmgewehrs when they did the movie and just bolted some crap onto.

Eli (29:09)

Them. I love how it's like this is now.

Ian McCollum (29:12)

Futuristic. So I was gonna. I was gonna shoot the match with that rifle and a Hoth Trooper costume that was gonna be a fantastic.

Brandon Herrera (29:20)

Larp. That's fucking.

Ian McCollum (29:21)

Great. And then I had to send the gun back like three times to get it working and ran out of.

Brandon Herrera (29:28)

Time. I have a theory about.

Ian McCollum (29:29)

That. Do.

Brandon Herrera (29:30)

Tell. Everybody's got. Everybody's had fucking problems with getting their reproduction STG44s to run properly. Like everyone who's ever fucking.

Ian McCollum (29:38)

Tried.

Brandon Herrera (29:38)

Yep. I question if the original STG44s ran.

Ian McCollum (29:43)

Properly. So there was a massive QC scrap rate on the production of Sturmgewears. Like massive. Like 30% of their sneakers. Oh my fucking God. Yeah. But they're just stamping them out so fast that whatever. Throw them back into the.

Brandon Herrera (30:01)

Smelter. And they had stuff going on at the.

Ian McCollum (30:04)

Time. Yeah, yeah. There were other.

Eli (30:05)

Issues. So what happened? Mass produce a whole bunch of weapons of diff. Just different weapons at the same time during a war with different ammo. And you're like, go fight.

Ian McCollum (30:16)

Shit. So I think the other problem is that nobody has been able to put the time and the production numbers into a semi auto repro to work out the fine details. And when the Germans are doing this during the war, they are stamping them out by the thousands. And so you have the scale to be like, oh, we need to change that. Tolerance needs to come in a thou. And they work out the problems with the semi auto guns. They're always expensive enough that there's never enough scale. Like you have to make a thousand of the things a thousand of anything in a production line before you're going to get close to having it actually.

Brandon Herrera (30:54)

Reliable. Not only that, but this is getting like real in the fucking weeds really early. But the I think that there's a difference in the actual cartridge like 8 millimeter curse is I think the modern PPU stuff is like a different spec. I heard people saying that you needed to do something to your feet ramp to be able to fire modern.

Ian McCollum (31:12)

Ammo. I've seen that. I'm pretty dubious about.

Brandon Herrera (31:15)

It.

Ian McCollum (31:15)

Really? Yeah. For one thing it assumes a very high, high level of, of quality control on the part of the original German ammo. If you ever want to have a fun time, grab some headspace dieses and go find a stack of original Sturmgewehrs and check their headspace. Cuz like 30 thou excess headspace is not particularly uncommon on a.

Eli (31:38)

Sturmgewehr. What does that.

Brandon Herrera (31:40)

Mean? It's not great, but it.

Eli (31:42)

Works. Anyone out there that doesn't know it's the STG44 Sturmgewehr? This is the assault rifle. It's one of the first of its kind. That and the.

Ian McCollum (31:52)

MP4. So the MP43, the MP44 and the Sturmgewehr 44 are all the same.

Eli (31:58)

Gun. OK. But this is that brand new.

Ian McCollum (32:01)

Tech. Future.

Brandon Herrera (32:02)

Tech. It's largely regarded as like the father of the modern assault.

Ian McCollum (32:05)

Rifle. Yeah. Yeah. It's not technically the first, but it is the first to be put into mass production used in the field with the tactics of an assault.

Brandon Herrera (32:15)

Rifle. Speaking of Schmeisser guns that were like their firsts, I just got after five years of hunting and this is like fucking a week ago. I'm super stoked. I just got my hands on an.

Ian McCollum (32:26)

MP18. Oh nice. I don't have original snail.

Brandon Herrera (32:30)

Drum. I don't have the original drum with it yet. But so.

Ian McCollum (32:34)

The. That's fine. You're probably gonna.

Eli (32:35)

Have. Cody are.

Ian McCollum (32:36)

Like. You're probably gonna have better luck with repro drums.

Brandon Herrera (32:38)

Anyway. Yeah.

Ian McCollum (32:39)

The. So for just shoot it with eight round.

Brandon Herrera (32:42)

Sticks. Yeah, exactly. And that's not a problem.

Eli (32:44)

But. Oh Cody, it's the battle, it's the battlefield. One.

Ian McCollum (32:47)

Gun. They actually went back and made. They actually went back and made that gun after the movie came out. The time came.

Brandon Herrera (32:53)

Out. It's just like Fortnite.

Eli (32:54)

Eli. Yeah, okay, that makes way more.

Ian McCollum (32:56)

Sense. That's, that's really.

Donut Operator (32:58)

Good. Me and Eli have never used our cell phones so much in the.

Ian McCollum (33:01)

Podcast. What are they Talking about the 173456, I had a chance to shoot a Villar Perosa. That is not. I, I having shot that, it is not the first submachine gun because it is unusable as a submachine gun. It is a little tiny, ought to be tripod mounted.

Brandon Herrera (33:21)

Thing.

Ian McCollum (33:22)

Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (33:22)

Yeah. That bad? Oh.

Ian McCollum (33:23)

Yeah. Oh.

Eli (33:24)

Yeah. What's it.

Ian McCollum (33:25)

Called? Villar V I L L A R dash P E R O S A. It is like 1100 rounds a minute. 9 millimeter Glisenti 2 barrels with spade grips and thumb.

Brandon Herrera (33:39)

Triggers. What the technically operable. It's kind of like the. The Chauchat or the Chauchat. I don't know. Yeah, I've had the opportunity to pick up a couple and I just, I always eyeball it like, man, I don't.

Eli (33:53)

Know. Guys, did you know it's smooth sack.

Donut Operator (33:56)

Summer? Damn right it.

Brandon Herrera (33:57)

Is. I need to.

Eli (34:00)

Quit. Feel how soft they.

Brandon Herrera (34:02)

Are. Was this a scratch and.

Eli (34:03)

Sniff? Wow, those are.

Brandon Herrera (34:04)

Soft. Don't act like you've never done.

Eli (34:07)

A sack check with the.

Donut Operator (34:08)

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Brandon Herrera (34:38)

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Donut Operator (34:43)

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Eli (34:47)

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Brandon Herrera (34:50)

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Donut Operator (34:59)

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Eli (35:13)

Balls. Trim your pubes. God damn it. Smooth sack.

Ian McCollum (35:16)

Summer. I have a series going that would make a fantastic exclusive Pepperbox video where we have a 75 round course of fire with the Chauchat that I bring on guests to shoot because nobody's ever actually got trigger time on a Chauchat. It.

Brandon Herrera (35:35)

Is. I was Gonna say Nobody's gotten through 75 rounds with a Chauchat and not had a.

Ian McCollum (35:39)

Malfunction. We have had one malfunction in the history of the series. You are kidding me. My Chauchat runs. Hmm. The. The problem with Chauchat is twofold. One is that the mags are basically.

Brandon Herrera (35:49)

Tinfoil.

Ian McCollum (35:49)

Yeah. There's. They ought to be expendable, but they're not because they haven't made them in a hundred years. But they're terrible quality mags. They're all a century old. Now, that's one.

Eli (35:58)

Problem. Tossing a mag in, it.

Ian McCollum (35:59)

Bends. Oh. If you hold it. If you hold the gun by the magazine, you will cause a malfunction because you will squeeze the magazine and you will cause it to not feed. Do you know what we're talking about with the.

Eli (36:09)

Chauchat?

Brandon Herrera (36:09)

No. It's the one where it's like a. It's like a half moon. Like the World War I French light machine gun where it's. The entire bottom of the gun is like a cup. That is the.

Ian McCollum (36:18)

Magazine. It's an 18 round, single stack, 180 degree.

Eli (36:22)

Magazine. 18 rounds? I.

Ian McCollum (36:25)

Think.

Eli (36:25)

Yeah. That's.

Brandon Herrera (36:26)

Wild. To be fair, this is also World War.

Eli (36:28)

I. We're still getting the ship again. That's why I'm like, It's World War.

Ian McCollum (36:31)

I. And by the way, it's not just the French automatic rifle light machine gun. It's also the American.

Brandon Herrera (36:37)

One. I forgot about.

Ian McCollum (36:39)

That. The bar showed up like six weeks before the end of the war. U.S. troops who deployed to France had Chauchats. Yeah, that's the.

Eli (36:46)

One. God, and I love that. That's just 18.

Ian McCollum (36:49)

Rounds.

Eli (36:50)

Yep. I think weigh. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (36:52)

God. Now imagine it's not that heavy.

Ian McCollum (36:54)

Really. I mean, it's awkward if you're.

Eli (36:56)

Walking 30 miles with.

Ian McCollum (36:57)

It. Then it gets really.

Eli (36:59)

Clunky. But, yeah, that's what I'm.

Ian McCollum (37:00)

Thinking. It's less than a Bren. It's less than a.

Eli (37:02)

240.

Ian McCollum (37:03)

Okay.

Eli (37:03)

Yeah. I always look at weapons.

Ian McCollum (37:05)

Now. I'm like, how much would that suck to.

Eli (37:07)

Carry? Dude, you get that mindset so fast.

Ian McCollum (37:10)

Overseas. It.

Eli (37:11)

Is. Here is. I want my gun to look cool. And then it starts to go to, okay, I don't need this. I don't need this. This fucking sucks. Because it weighs extra there. This. That's it stripped down. It's minimized now I can walk a long.

Ian McCollum (37:24)

Ways. So what's awesome about the Chauchat is nobody's ever shot them. Even people with tremendous amounts of firearms experience never shot Sometimes people have. But like if someone in your position had shot a Chauchat, it would be oh yeah, I was at a shoot once and a guy had one and I put a magazine through it from a bench. That's it. No one's ever actually tried to effectively use one. So we get to have this series where we take people who are reasonably familiar with firearms and like, here you go, we're counting your hits. It's we got some semi, we got some full auto, we got a mag dump, we got some walking fire, like a whole variety of, of different types of.

Brandon Herrera (38:01)

Shooting. Oh, I volunteer as.

Ian McCollum (38:02)

Tribute. Excellent. We'll set that up. That'll be a lot of fun.

Brandon Herrera (38:05)

Because I've never shot one and I've. They come up for reasonable prices, like 10grand.ish. For something like. Something like.

Ian McCollum (38:12)

That. So the other problem with them is that a lot of the ones in the US were dewaded or demilled and then repaired. There are a fair number of them that came back as like American Legion post souvenirs that went up on the wall and they were either welded shut or various forms of Demille. And so they've all had to be repaired. And when you get rando gunsmith trying to cut an 8mm Lebel chamber or make a new barrel or usually like I don't know where we get a new barrel for this thing. So let's just see if we can grind out the weld that's in it. That's a recipe for gun not work very.

Brandon Herrera (38:50)

Well. I have had this theory for a while now and it drives me fucking crazy because the more I see, the more I know it to be true. Most of what people bitch about with machine guns now is entirely due to the American NFA world, where boomers in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s are trying to fix machine guns they don't have prints for. And they're just like, fuck it, this will work kinda. And as long as it fires three rounds in a row, they're like functional machine gun. And they'll take it to shoots and they'll sell them. And we bring in so many machine guns that I buy as like perfectly functional. We realize the welds are completely fucked. Headspace is completely gone. Like they're dangerous to shoot. Like you sold me a grenade and went, that's fine. Like our dishka. It was so.

Ian McCollum (39:36)

Fucked. Oh, I can't even imagine something like that. That's like there's really no way for a good dishka to come into the US and get on the registry, you. It's guaranteed to be messed up.

Brandon Herrera (39:47)

Somehow. But the guy who re welded it, it was the worst reweld we've seen in a while. Like they're just open pockets when we cut back into.

Ian McCollum (39:54)

It. I've seen some pretty bad re welds. You've seen some of the pretty bad jobs that I've.

Brandon Herrera (40:00)

Seen. Well, that's fair. Actually, that one was pretty bad. That was pretty fucking expensive. Holy crap. At one point he did a video on, we call it like the most cursed crank. Like it was just. It was fucked.

Ian McCollum (40:13)

Up. It was not recognised as being a bad gun. That was the first. We took it to the range as part of a shoot. A guy I was with and he brought it out because he hadn't shot it before. And it's his new post sample crank and one round fired and the entire gas block assembly goes downrange. Yeah. And it only got worse from there once we started. Like, I didn't really look at the thing closely because I've done some video on cranks. Like they're super cool. But I have, I have, I'm focused, like, I'm working. I have these three guns that I want to film and it's a quasi public shoot so it's going to be tricky to work with anyway. And yeah, so he's going to bring that thing like, okay, that's cool, dude, whatever, you know, have fun and. Oh, there was a lot of grinder involved in building that.

Brandon Herrera (41:00)

Gun. It was not safe.

Ian McCollum (41:03)

Nothing. What was the first clue? Perhaps pieces of the gun going down.

Brandon Herrera (41:06)

Range. That and like the amount of grinding on the. The locking lugs. Like for our dishko was the locking flaps were ground down which is always a great. That's the thing that stops the gun from exploding. So that's.

Ian McCollum (41:16)

Really. Yeah, those are.

Brandon Herrera (41:16)

Important. But yeah, no, we, we ended up because we saw your video. I'm like, we'll just rebuild it for the guy. Like, we'll, we'll. That was really cool. You know, come back to life because he's a really cool guy.

Ian McCollum (41:25)

Like. Yes. I don't want to cast aspersions on the guy because he. I don't think he looked at it closely either. No idea. By the way, this is a good lesson for everybody. If you buy a new gun, look at it like examine it before you shoot it. This applies to milsurp stuff too. It's not very common in the us but in Europe it's not uncommon for people to forcibly deactivate guns, effectively destroy them. So that they don't have to be registered. And this can mean like drill a hole in the chamber. And then sometimes it's. We drilled a hole in the chamber, but we don't want it to look like it's got an ugly hole in it. So we filled in the stock or we put a new stock on it and didn't bother to put a bar in the chamber or anything. And then it gets sold and sold. And then third guy it gets sold to doesn't know it's deactivated and goes and fires a round through it and it just blows through the bottom of the stock and hurts.

Brandon Herrera (42:16)

Someone. You figure it out pretty.

Ian McCollum (42:17)

Quick. Yeah, but look at guns before you take them out and shoot.

Brandon Herrera (42:21)

Them. Especially like the older something. Yeah, like, it's not bad to. I don't know, it's kind of a weird thing to say, like, oh, you should own the headspace engages for every caliber you have. But really, like, headspace engages are a really, really nice entry level.

Ian McCollum (42:33)

Tool.

Eli (42:34)

Yeah. I think on the older ones, especially if you're taking them out, because those I always look at as the ticking time bombs. New shit I'm like, a lot of tech went into even building this for the most part, should be pretty good. Old shit is the one where it's like, I'm gonna have somebody look at it before I touch.

Ian McCollum (42:50)

It. When I was building AKs way back in the day, my cop out for not having head spacing dies was that I only worked with matching parts kits. I mean, then I don't have to worry about it. And at the time, that wasn't a big.

Brandon Herrera (43:04)

Deal. I mean, that's better. That's objectively like, okay, it went together properly the first time this way. Because if you have like virgin parts kits or you have non matching kits, then you really have to like, you have to be careful with.

Ian McCollum (43:16)

Headspace. Yeah, you have.

Brandon Herrera (43:17)

To. But matching stuff, you're like, well, it was good enough for Bulgaria in.

Ian McCollum (43:20)

1968. Then. Then you go to like Cujier and look at it and you're like.

Donut Operator (43:24)

Ooh. Or can we dumb it down for just a minute? No, you had to explain to me. God damn it. I'll see myself out. You guys have fun with your fucking autism. One thing you had to explain to me when I first met you is what a parts kit.

Brandon Herrera (43:38)

Was. Yeah, so like, specifically for. This is true for pretty much all firearms, but for AKs in general, in. In this case, you'll have importers that want to bring in kits to the United States. You can't bring in whole machine guns to the US up until recently, the Trump administration just reversed this. But you couldn't even bring in machine gun barrels. So, like, original barrels for anything that was a machine gun, aks, whatever, had to be cut up in multiple pieces. Receivers have to be cut up in, like, three.

Donut Operator (44:04)

Pieces. So a kid is getting pieces of a.

Ian McCollum (44:07)

Gun. I have this AK that I want to sell to the Americans. But you can't import a machine gun. Well, if you take it apart enough, eventually you'll find the one part that is a machine gun by itself. That's the.

Donut Operator (44:19)

Receiver. Yeah, we'll cut that up. Sometimes it's like chopped up in a.

Ian McCollum (44:22)

Yep. Exact.

Donut Operator (44:23)

Pieces. Torch.

Brandon Herrera (44:24)

Cut. Now, they used to be saw cut, which used to be way easier.

Ian McCollum (44:27)

To build the rules on how it can be. The idea is you destroy the legal machine gun part and then you just import everything else. And it became known as a parts.

Brandon Herrera (44:36)

Kit.

Ian McCollum (44:36)

Yeah. And the rules for how the destruction has to take place have changed over the course of.

Donut Operator (44:41)

Decades. Yeah. When I first met Brandon a couple of years ago, I thought he was a fucking magician, because he was like, yeah, here's a parts kit. Here's this piece, this piece, this piece, this piece. We can put it back together into a functional gun. I was like, holy shit. That is the coolest thing.

Ian McCollum (44:56)

Ever. I.

Donut Operator (44:57)

Didn'T. I didn't know parts kits existed before I met him a couple years.

Brandon Herrera (44:59)

Ago, which for like, an AR is not that big of a.

Ian McCollum (45:01)

Deal. Oh, no, that's not gunsmithing. That's just.

Eli (45:04)

Exactly. You've offended a lot of.

Ian McCollum (45:07)

People. Like, I'm sorry if you built your own ar, that you're not a gunsmith. You might be a gunsmith, but it's just.

Donut Operator (45:14)

Wild. It's just wild thinking about overseas. They have to torch cut. Just like, just gnarly torch it into.

Brandon Herrera (45:21)

It. And like, you have.

Donut Operator (45:22)

To. You have this.

Ian McCollum (45:23)

Thing. You want horrible nightmare fuel. I've seen videos of the process. Like, here's a stack of pristine machine guns, and here's the dude with the acetylene torch. Oh, it's horrible.

Brandon Herrera (45:34)

The. But it went. Once they get to the States, like, you have to DeMille like, the AKs riveted together, so you have to drill out all the. The individual rivets. You have to cut around the slag on, like, the barrels and shit like that. When that get. Get cut, press out the pins on all the barrel components, press them off. Like, it's a pretty involved process just to get to a parts.

Eli (45:52)

Kit.

Brandon Herrera (45:52)

Yeah. And then from there, you have to use a new receiver, a new barrel, everything, and then rebuild it. What he's talking about with, like, an OG.

Ian McCollum (45:59)

Barrel. Headspace.

Brandon Herrera (46:01)

Is. Headspace on the AK is determined by your bolt and how far back your barrel is pressed in the trunnion. Yeah, I said.

Donut Operator (46:08)

It.

Ian McCollum (46:08)

Trunnion.

Brandon Herrera (46:09)

Yeah. Basically, if you press it in too far, it's too tight. Won't completely.

Donut Operator (46:14)

Lock. The trunnion is too.

Brandon Herrera (46:15)

Tight. Trunnion's too.

Ian McCollum (46:16)

Tight. That sounds good, but it's sounds.

Brandon Herrera (46:20)

Like it should be a good thing.

Ian McCollum (46:22)

Yeah. Prom night.

Brandon Herrera (46:23)

Tight. Not good on ak. If you don't press it in enough, there's too much space, and then the round can essentially detonate out.

Ian McCollum (46:31)

Of. The best way I've heard it described is headspace is when the. When the gun's locked closed on a cartridge, how far back can the bolt and the cartridge case push from the back of the barrel? And there has to be a little bit, because if it's completely frictionally rubbing against each other, it won't reliably close. But if there's too much, then the first thing that happens when you fire is the cartridge comes all the way back to the maximum extent of its headspace. And if that's too much, it'll blow through the brass at that point before gas has gotten to the gas port at all. And then that's the gun.

Eli (47:09)

Exploding. I just know. M2 go click or.

Ian McCollum (47:14)

Bang.

Brandon Herrera (47:15)

Click. M2 gun. Great.

Eli (47:16)

System. I.

Donut Operator (47:17)

Know. That's why that's the only time infantry.

Eli (47:19)

Man. That's the only time I ever fucked with head.

Donut Operator (47:21)

Spacing. When I am army, I am in army. Do.

Ian McCollum (47:27)

Thing. Bullet.

Eli (47:29)

Boom. This piece metal say go. This piece metal say no go. Okay. And that's the army dumbing it down as much as possible. We're like, okay, unscrew C window three, turn. Okay, it go.

Brandon Herrera (47:40)

Bang. And that's why you've got, like, field gauges and stuff, which is what they issue to troops, basically. Like, when this closes, bring the gun to your.

Ian McCollum (47:50)

Armorer.

Donut Operator (47:50)

Yes. Oh, three bad.

Brandon Herrera (47:53)

Men. Because you've got, like, go.

Donut Operator (47:55)

Gauge. No bad head.

Brandon Herrera (47:57)

Space. Well, we're talking about, like, headspace gauges. You've got go gauge, which means it can close. Like, that's a good thing. You want it to be able to go. No, go means. Okay, well, it just closed on this. We should.

Ian McCollum (48:09)

Not. That shouldn't.

Brandon Herrera (48:10)

Happen. So it's out of headspace. Field gauges. This might explode. This is not.

Ian McCollum (48:16)

Usable. Yeah. Yeah. Field gauges is this may have some wear, but if it doesn't exceed this, it's.

Brandon Herrera (48:26)

Usable. Yeah. If it closes on the field.

Ian McCollum (48:28)

Gauge, you're like, ah, go and no go are what you use on a brand new gun to assemble it. And then field is a recognition that over time, the headspace will expand as things stretch and as you fire thousands of rounds through the gun. And if an old worn gun fails one of the go no go gauges, like. But if it fails the field gauge, don't use it.

Brandon Herrera (48:52)

Yeah. If it swallows a field gauge, you're. That's a grenade.

Donut Operator (48:55)

Yeah. I was gonna say, I love the two sides of our audiences listening right now, because one side is like, let Eli and Cody try to dumb things. And then the other side is like, stop Eli and Cody from talking because they're explaining the gun.

Ian McCollum (49:09)

Stuff. Oh, my God. It's the perfect.

Eli (49:13)

Jeans.

Brandon Herrera (49:14)

Right? I can.

Ian McCollum (49:15)

Leave. Brandon, get on their shoulders. Up here, big boy. Try the perfect jeans out as.

Eli (49:21)

Earmuffs. Brandon, how perfect are.

Brandon Herrera (49:23)

They? Feels like the perfect.

Eli (49:24)

Jeans. They're so.

Ian McCollum (49:25)

Flexible. I'm fat. I can actually do squats on.

Eli (49:28)

Them. Usually that's an.

Brandon Herrera (49:29)

Issue. I'm picturing you do doing squats in the gym with these.

Ian McCollum (49:35)

Jeans. I.

Eli (49:36)

Could. Dude, they are.

Brandon Herrera (49:37)

Like, Eli's just mogging on the audience right.

Eli (49:42)

Now. Finn, make my dick talk. Now you're watching the ad, and pants season is almost here. It's always pants season if you're a f. Cking.

Brandon Herrera (49:51)

Adult. It's August in Texas. We're all wearing.

Ian McCollum (49:54)

Jeans. The perfect.

Eli (49:55)

Jeans. That's right. Today we're talking about the perfect jean. Brandon, how my jeans feel on your.

Brandon Herrera (50:00)

Neck. Feels like I need to talk to.

Eli (50:02)

Hr. But they were comfortable.

Brandon Herrera (50:03)

Right?

Eli (50:04)

Absolutely. This brand, the Perfect Gene, it's actually perfect. It's real denim, but not the heavy.

Ian McCollum (50:11)

Stuff. I just like how they finally say that. We can say your khakis, which works great pretty much everywhere. Except for Boston, I'm.

Brandon Herrera (50:17)

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Eli (50:27)

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Ian McCollum (50:35)

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Eli (50:38)

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Ian McCollum (50:42)

Shipping. It's lighter, softer, stretchier, and it's not a sex.

Brandon Herrera (50:46)

Toy. Not with that.

Eli (50:47)

Attitude. Use that.

Brandon Herrera (50:50)

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Ian McCollum (50:51)

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Brandon Herrera (50:52)

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Eli (50:55)

Checkout. That's 15 off at checkout for the perfect.

Ian McCollum (50:58)

Jeans. Connor loves perfect.

Eli (50:59)

Jeans. He does. They fit him really.

Ian McCollum (51:01)

Nice. Oh.

Eli (51:02)

Pants. Got the retarded. Okay, go on with your A280 80s five from Star wars, which only you know.

Brandon Herrera (51:13)

About. You had your video game podcast last.

Donut Operator (51:16)

Week. Let me have.

Eli (51:17)

This. Like, what's going.

Donut Operator (51:20)

On? Gun shoot.

Eli (51:21)

Guys. I know. I'm like, what.

Ian McCollum (51:23)

The. With.

Donut Operator (51:25)

With. Actually, no, dad, not.

Eli (51:26)

Again. Who is some of the gun content creators you actually started watching when you got into this field.

Donut Operator (51:33)

Before. Were there.

Ian McCollum (51:35)

Any? Because you've.

Donut Operator (51:36)

Been. Yeah, there were a.

Ian McCollum (51:36)

Few. Minute. There were a few. So I started in.

Eli (51:39)

2010.

Ian McCollum (51:40)

You're. No, I'm. I'm like, second generation of it, because Hickok was already there. Iraq vet was already.

Eli (51:49)

There. Oh, God.

Ian McCollum (51:50)

Yeah. Who else?

Eli (51:53)

Ford. God. 20 is the second.

Ian McCollum (51:55)

Wave. What's the guy's name? FPS Russia. Oh, yeah. FPS Russia was the big one when I started. So I didn't start it to be a YouTube channel. I started Forgotten Weapons as a text blog, largely because I was playing with a friend's collection, and he had a bunch of cool documentary stuff like those old Springfield Armory photos. When Springfield Armory, which was the head of US Small Arms testing and R and D, whenever they got something, they would take a whole batch of photographs of it, and then they go into the US National Archives, and they're public domain, and they're available for everybody. And they would do like, you know, left, right, top, disassembled, exploded view of the gun. And then if they did testing and something weird happened, you might get like, well, here's a picture after the barrel exploded and there's, you know, a hole in it. But they did this for every bizarre, weird gun that they tested. Some, you know, Bob in his garage sends a gun to Springfield in 1912. They do it. We capture this kooky thing from the Nazis. In 45, Springfield Armory is doing testing and taking pictures. And so it's this really cool resource of bizarre, weird, forgotten.

Eli (53:08)

Weapons.

Ian McCollum (53:08)

Yeah. And so I'm like, roll credits. Yeah. Some of it. Like, I'd love. We ought to have more access to this. It's hard to find these things sometimes. And then what really did it was a friend of a friend was a senior engineer at Colt and died. And he happened to have in his attic, like, manuals and drawings for the Pedersen.

Donut Operator (53:32)

Device.

Ian McCollum (53:33)

Cool. The Pedersen device for the Mosin, the Enfield, and the.

Brandon Herrera (53:36)

Lebel. Okay, so now from.

Ian McCollum (53:39)

That.

Brandon Herrera (53:39)

Cool. The Pedersen.

Eli (53:41)

Device.

Ian McCollum (53:42)

Yes. Go on it converts a bolt action rifle into a semi auto pistol calibre.

Brandon Herrera (53:46)

Carbine. It was like the original PCC.

Eli (53:49)

Conversion. So one dude was like, hey, here's how we turn this from a bolt.

Ian McCollum (53:53)

Action. John Pedersen, who is one of the greatest gun designers of the early.

Eli (53:58)

1900S. Yeah, I would say so. Dude was like, I can make that gun.

Ian McCollum (54:02)

Cooler. We made thousands upon thousands of them. It was going to be our secret weapon. In the 1919 spring offensive in World War I, which didn't happen. No one really expected the war to end at the end of 1918. And they all got.

Brandon Herrera (54:15)

Scrapped. They were all like thrown off the side of a.

Ian McCollum (54:17)

Fucking. Yeah, basically thrown into the ocean, I.

Eli (54:20)

Think. No shit. So this was actually, hey, part of this war effort. We're in trench warfare. We need. Yeah, we're going to now be the first wave of. Everyone has semi auto.

Ian McCollum (54:29)

Weapons. Would you like a 40 round semi auto carbine or would you like a 5 round bolt action.

Eli (54:33)

06? God, that would have been mind blowing at that period of time. That would have.

Brandon Herrera (54:38)

Been. And even if it happened that.

Eli (54:39)

Year before, it would have been what turned the tide during that.

Brandon Herrera (54:42)

War. Even better logistically is you're not issuing new guns, right? You are issuing an accessory that makes your gun more lethal and you.

Ian McCollum (54:50)

Can swap it back and forth and.

Eli (54:51)

You got farm boys like, man, you see this fucking.

Donut Operator (54:54)

Thing? I can go duke dude, dude instead of.

Ian McCollum (54:57)

Dude. Yeah. So these things are scarce and very valuable today because a few hundred of them survived, getting scrapped. But originally the plan was to build these for all the other allied powers. We're gonna make them for the British, the French, and the Russians too. And when this guy died, his family was like weird old papers in the garbage and they're gone. And that was the, that was the moment that I'm like, you know, maybe I could start a website and archive some of this stuff so it doesn't go boop going into the garbage. Yeah, they didn't know what it.

Eli (55:30)

Was. They didn't know.

Donut Operator (55:32)

Grandpa. I mean, yeah, think about like weird old Uncle Brandon over here and they're just like, yeah, he just wrote a bunch of shit down. Thanks for the.

Ian McCollum (55:40)

Money. Yeah, that's sad. That's a sad.

Donut Operator (55:45)

Thought. I know your.

Ian McCollum (55:46)

Brothers. So as I, as I started expanding the website, it got to the point of like, how does this gun work? I have to explain how this gun works. Doing that in writing is really hard. Like describing, tell me how an AK works, but write it down instead of. And with no.

Brandon Herrera (56:08)

Pictures. It's A much worse.

Ian McCollum (56:10)

Medium. It's like having to read patents, which is.

Brandon Herrera (56:13)

Awful. Well, the fun part is you can. You can describe something in words and then ask 10 fucking people to draw what they just wrote and you'll come up with 10 different.

Ian McCollum (56:21)

Answers. Yeah. So I started doing videos. Like, oh, well, it's a lot easier for me to say to show it than to try and write it. And at the time, I was just hosting forgotten weapons myself. And I did not have the income to pay for the bandwidth to host video content because that was a thing that, like, at one point people actually did was host their own video on their own.

Eli (56:43)

Website. A lot of people don't realize that, like, the idea of YouTube, especially when it came into existence, what, 2005?

Ian McCollum (56:50)

Six. Yeah, five or six. I think.

Eli (56:52)

You. That was ground. This is fucking groundbreaking. You had to pay for your skinny Internet space, even for.

Ian McCollum (57:00)

Pepperbox. And.

Eli (57:01)

That'S. We pay for the servers to run. That's an expensive fucking.

Ian McCollum (57:05)

Thing. And that's literally why I started using YouTube, is it's like, okay, I have this video, what do I do with it? Holy crap, those idiots will let me host it for free. It wasn't, it wasn't like, at the time, I don't remember when they started monetization, but it was years, years after I started using it that monetization was even a.

Eli (57:24)

Thing. You just had that. My time, Felicia, I get to.

Ian McCollum (57:26)

Do this for free, right? These idiots, That'll never.

Brandon Herrera (57:29)

Last. You had to be like legit, like, partnered to get monetization. You had to be like one of the 100 people that, you know, they had chosen as a partnered creator. Like now the partner programs, pretty much anybody, it's like, okay, well, if you, you meet these criteria, there's tens.

Eli (57:46)

Of thousands of partners, dude, it's wild that you were one of the few people I've talked to that you knew, hey, here's the cost of this. And what drove people to YouTube at that time was, yeah, it was sheer, just cost of being able to upload a video, which is.

Ian McCollum (57:59)

Wild.

Eli (58:00)

Yeah. For free. Yeah, that's wild. At that.

Ian McCollum (58:03)

Time. And so over time, over the following years, the video became more and more popular with people for obvious reasons. It's more interesting to watch it than to read it. And so I started doing more of that. And today I still run the website, but it's basically just a copy paste of, here's the video, here's the YouTube link, here's the description. I still write a reasonable description text for almost every Video. Because they originally were. This is an article with a companion video on.

Eli (58:31)

It.

Brandon Herrera (58:31)

Yes. Now it's like back when description was, like, super essential for SEO and everything like.

Ian McCollum (58:36)

That. Yeah, yeah. Because YouTube has always been fantastic and transparent and easy to work.

Eli (58:41)

With. They never lie or change things on the.

Ian McCollum (58:45)

Fly. I never really got into the SEO stuff, and I still don't.

Brandon Herrera (58:48)

Today. I gave.

Ian McCollum (58:50)

Up. I just figured ultimately, the whole purpose of SEO is to get people access to the content that they're trying to find. So if I make content that I know is what people want to watch, I don't have to play SEO games. I can count on the SEO getting better over time and successfully leading gun nerds to my stuff, which appears to have.

Brandon Herrera (59:12)

Worked. The only thing I do with SEO is try to make sure that somewhere in my description or title, if you are looking for what I have provided, then you should be able to find it in search. Other than that, I'm just making content for my.

Ian McCollum (59:23)

Audience. I will do things like, if there are multiple different common names for a gun, I'll put one in the title, but I'll make sure to put the other or others in the description text somewhere. And when I get weird foreign guns with foreign names that have umlauts or accent marks, I will always use just a plain English version for the title. But I'll try and put whatever the original character codes are in the description. That's smart, because sometimes if you put, like, an A with an umlaut and someone searches regular A, they won't find it. And then nobody ever sees your.

Brandon Herrera (59:57)

Video. Because I was going to say, ain't no motherfucker on the planet that's. That's typing the original, like, Imperial German version. I'm like, well, your audience might be a little.

Eli (60:05)

Different. A lot of people don't realize how much effort even goes into that side of it. It's like, okay, here's the first word for it. Okay, here's the second, here's the third, here's the fourth. Just so hopefully y' all see.

Ian McCollum (60:16)

It.

Eli (60:17)

Yeah. On top of filming the video, hosting the video, typing out the descriptions, all those little things that you have to worry.

Ian McCollum (60:24)

About.

Eli (60:25)

Yeah. Don't miss any of that. We do it all the.

Brandon Herrera (60:28)

Time. But it's crazy to see, like, OG YouTube like that or OG GunTube, because, like, we stood on the shoulders of giants like IV and FPS Russia and everybody. Yeah, it's weird because there weren't a lot of people in the space back in the.

Ian McCollum (60:41)

Day. No, there weren't And I didn't find anyone who was really digging into disassembly. I'm like, yeah, I can do that. And as over time as I got deeper into it, I got more experience, I got more connections with collections and companies and museums. And today my biggest resource is my reference library. I have a lot of gun reference books, and not the Barnes Noble ones, but that weird one that they printed 150 copies in 1974 and it's $800.

Brandon Herrera (61:14)

Now. Those are so.

Ian McCollum (61:16)

Fun. But just finding that's where the information is.

Donut Operator (61:18)

Because. Have you ever had to go to Ian for any of your weapons rebuilds or.

Brandon Herrera (61:23)

Anything? We've worked together on some stuff. I don't think we might have asked some questions on certain things. Usually the stuff we do is not to denigrate what we do. Usually pretty surface level. Like there's nothing super in depth that we would have to dig.

Ian McCollum (61:38)

For. And a lot of the stuff that I'm covering is kind of one of a kind. It's not the sort of thing that someone buys as a shooter and then needs to have worked.

Brandon Herrera (61:46)

On.

Donut Operator (61:46)

Yeah, I was just asking because I've seen your place. It's a fucking arms museum. So I was just wondering if there's like some obscure thing you have to hit him up for. His weapons manuals that he has from 1916. There's five of them and he has one of.

Brandon Herrera (62:02)

Them. There's certain things that are just so exotic that like for for example, one of them is the, the PTRs 41. I'm trying to still like to this day figure out how to safely shoot that.

Ian McCollum (62:14)

Fucking. I'm terrified of those things. I want to shoot one and a pt. Well, but yeah, I want someone else to shoot it with the same batch of ammo first. When I'm a safe distance away. That's the fucking.

Brandon Herrera (62:25)

Problem. So the PTRs 41. I'm seeing the.

Eli (62:28)

Look. Sorry, 14th no, I know this one. I've already watched the video. This is the one I was like, oh, this.

Ian McCollum (62:33)

Is. This is just the scaled up sks. Yeah, that one's easy to.

Brandon Herrera (62:38)

Describe. Just funny because the SKS is really the scaled down PTRS. Exactly right.

Donut Operator (62:43)

Cody. Yeah, you were thinking the BC12.

Eli (62:46)

It was just the scaled up and down at the.

Donut Operator (62:48)

Boot. It was the 69420 that you were thinking of, dumb.

Brandon Herrera (62:52)

Bitch. So anyway, I'm going to mute their microphones. This is. It was a 14.5 millimeter anti tank rifle that was developed during World War.

Donut Operator (63:01)

II. Oh, that Simonov that big fucker sitting in your.

Ian McCollum (63:04)

Sleds. Oh yeah, they're eight feet.

Brandon Herrera (63:05)

Long. Yeah, big fucker. Not the sleds. That's a.

Eli (63:08)

Lottie. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (63:09)

Okay. This was the, this was the Russian one that came out in World War II by Simonov. I read in Kalashnikov's book that he said that it was made in like 33 sleepless nights or something like.

Ian McCollum (63:20)

That. The PTRS was a little longer. The PTRD was about a one month.

Brandon Herrera (63:23)

Project. Oh, fuck.

Ian McCollum (63:24)

Me. We can talk about the PTRD in a moment because that one's even way more.

Brandon Herrera (63:27)

Terrifying. I'm scared of that. The PTRD is basically the single.

Ian McCollum (63:31)

Shot or the bolt action, but it opens by itself. That's great. It's a bolt action single shot. So open bolt, put round in close bolt. But the whole action is on basically a spring loaded chassis. So when you fire it absorbs some of the recoil by moving back towards you. And the cheek rest has a cam plate on it. So when the whole thing moves back, the bolt handle hits this cam plate, pops open. The residual pressure opens the bolt and ejects the round while it's still coming towards your.

Brandon Herrera (64:04)

Face. Super.

Ian McCollum (64:05)

Cool. And it's a 14.5 which is, it's like 900 grain bullet at 3,300ft per.

Eli (64:13)

Second.

Ian McCollum (64:13)

Dynamite. It is an incredible cartridge. It is the best anti tank cartridge of World War.

Brandon Herrera (64:19)

II. They still use them in Ukraine? Yeah, still in use. So 50 BMG is 12.7 millimeter. This is 14.5 and it's noticeably.

Ian McCollum (64:26)

Chunkier. Yeah, it's the KPV round, isn't.

Brandon Herrera (64:29)

It? I think.

Ian McCollum (64:29)

So. The KPV machine gun cannon. Not quite a cannon, but I.

Brandon Herrera (64:34)

Saw one of those come up the other day.

Ian McCollum (64:35)

Too. I see some parts kits for him.

Brandon Herrera (64:37)

Like it's funny because that you can get around destructive device laws in the United States as an sot. Because fun fact, if it's a. So if it's a semi or a single shot, semi, auto, whatever. 40 millimeter, let's say 40 millimeter grenade launcher. That's a destructive device. As a 0702 SOT, I can only get two of those per year. If it's full auto now suddenly it's a machine gun. So it doesn't fall under the destructive device category. I could buy as many as I.

Ian McCollum (65:08)

Want. You know the other fun thing you can do with those? They're destructive devices because the bore diameter is greater than 50 caliber. What happens if you take the barrel off the receiver? It's now a Rifle. It doesn't have a bore diameter if it doesn't have a.

Brandon Herrera (65:22)

Barrel.

Ian McCollum (65:24)

Hmm. This is why you can re barrel a boys in 50 BMG and it's no longer a destructive device, but it is in 55 and you can take the barrel off of a boys and you now have a non regulated barrel and a non regulated, well, a GCA.

Brandon Herrera (65:42)

Rifle. If it's already registered as a dd, what happens.

Ian McCollum (65:46)

Then? Well, the receiver remains a dd. In theory you could write to ATF and tell them to remove it from the registry. One of the other places where this is gets goofy is like with, with AOWs with those, the short barrelled shotgun pistols, the Ithaca auto burglars. If you have like, let's say you have two that aren't.

Brandon Herrera (66:08)

Registered, just start putting up like whenever we mention something, just put up the fucking picture of what we're talking about because the boys are.

Ian McCollum (66:17)

Lost. So here's the dumb thing. You take an AOW like that, you can't register it legally speaking. But if you took the barrel off and put a different barrel on it, you could register it by as manufacturing it with the new set of barrels, but not with the set of barrels that was originally on it. Because if it's already got the barrels, you're not legally manufacturing.

Brandon Herrera (66:38)

It. The ATF is just so fucking silly. Like just some of these things like you understand, like it works for 90% of what they were trying to to.

Ian McCollum (66:46)

Do. But it's when they wrote these laws, they did not anticipate the autistic creativity of people that would come 100 years.

Brandon Herrera (66:55)

Later. We never went to the aquarium. These lied to me.

Eli (66:58)

Brandon. Does that mean we're talking about.

Donut Operator (67:00)

Surfshark? Surfshark was made by doctors.

Brandon Herrera (67:02)

Cody. No, I just want to go to the.

Eli (67:05)

Aquarium. First off, Surfshark is a modern VPN designed for the.

Brandon Herrera (67:09)

User. Surfshark allows you to enjoy all the freedoms of the open Internet safely and anonymously with. With no device.

Donut Operator (67:15)

Limits. You mean I can watch Texas Restricted content in Texas using.

Eli (67:19)

Surfshark? Whatever do you mean.

Donut Operator (67:21)

Cody? Like Netflix in other.

Brandon Herrera (67:23)

Countries. In that case we're allowed to say.

Eli (67:25)

Yes. You can't. Texas and.

Brandon Herrera (67:27)

Chill. What's the difference between Jelly and Jammy.

Ian McCollum (67:29)

Lie?

Brandon Herrera (67:30)

What? Brandon, you wouldn't get.

Eli (67:32)

It. Wait, Cody, does that mean I can watch anime that might not be on other.

Ian McCollum (67:37)

Services?

Eli (67:38)

Yes. That also means I can search in complete privacy with no ads or trackers following your every.

Brandon Herrera (67:46)

Move. With over 3200 servers in 100 countries, it ensures that you'll find a server Anywhere you go. And with no borders mode. Not like that. It allows you to successfully use Surfshark even in restricted countries made by.

Ian McCollum (67:57)

Doctors. Cody, let's say you're in China.

Donut Operator (68:00)

And you want to look at a website that's banned there. Well, you can with surfshark and.

Brandon Herrera (68:04)

There'S nothing Winnie the Pooh can do to stop.

Eli (68:06)

You. Who.

Ian McCollum (68:07)

Bothers? Political.

Brandon Herrera (68:08)

Prisoner. But not with.

Eli (68:11)

Surfshark. Also, you get to unlock 15 of the largest countries in Netflix. That means.

Brandon Herrera (68:17)

USA. And they have strict no logs policy, meaning that Surfshark doesn't keep any of your private.

Donut Operator (68:24)

Data. You can use Surfshark on computers, phones, smart TVs and.

Brandon Herrera (68:28)

More. It's one of the few forms of protection I actually practice. Go to surfshark.com unsubscribe and use code unsubscribe at checkout to get four.

Eli (68:36)

Extra months of Surfshark.

Ian McCollum (68:38)

VPN. If only we knew who made.

Donut Operator (68:40)

It. Made by a doctor, thank.

Eli (68:41)

God. That's right. Head over to surfshark.com unsubscribe and get four months right now. Tell them Unsub sent.

Brandon Herrera (68:49)

You. They never do. You can't stop the signal, so to.

Ian McCollum (68:52)

Speak. Precisely. Yes.

Brandon Herrera (68:53)

Exactly. Speaking of which, Firefly.

Ian McCollum (68:55)

Reference. Maybe we'll bring them back. Maybe. Are they googling Firefly.

Eli (69:00)

Now? No, I just like. This is called the Auto and Burglar. I'm like, names. Why is it always with two pictures.

Donut Operator (69:09)

Too? I want one. It's called the.

Eli (69:11)

Burglar. It's the Auto and.

Ian McCollum (69:12)

Burglar. Yeah. You use it in your car and on.

Brandon Herrera (69:14)

Burglars. Yeah. Literally a Chicago.

Ian McCollum (69:18)

Special.

Donut Operator (69:18)

Yeah. But dude breaks into my house.

Ian McCollum (69:20)

Welcome. I got one for each of.

Eli (69:24)

You. Yeah, that's. That's fucking.

Ian McCollum (69:27)

Wild. Those are cool. And those were reasonably popular until 1934, and then they were immediately not.

Brandon Herrera (69:33)

Sold. On that note, I had a Serbu Super Shorty that I just picked up, and I was going to make that my center console gun. It's about yay too long. That would've been a.

Ian McCollum (69:44)

Great. Those are.

Brandon Herrera (69:45)

Fun. It's a neat little. It's a neat little.

Ian McCollum (69:46)

Gun. I did a backup gun match with a friend recently where he used a Serbu Super Shorty and I used a Thunder.

Brandon Herrera (69:54)

5.

Ian McCollum (69:55)

No. Yeah. And it was like, you. Neither of these is a good.

Brandon Herrera (70:00)

Idea. You get a. You'll get a kick out of this. We did a charity shoot for the. The local GOP a couple. A couple weeks ago, and it was like a. It was a skeet shoot or it was a. Yeah, it was A skeet.

Ian McCollum (70:10)

Shoot. Clay shoot.

Brandon Herrera (70:11)

Yeah. And we knew, like, I'm. I'm not a. I'm not a clay shooter. I haven't done it. I'll do it once in a while for, like, a charity thing, but I don't practice. I'm not gonna win. And our team, it was all my shop guys came out. We just said, you know what? We're not gonna place, and that's fine. We're just having fun supporting the. You know, supporting the cause. We're just gonna bring the most.

Ian McCollum (70:32)

Autistic. Bring your dumbest.

Brandon Herrera (70:33)

Shotguns. I shot it with a USAS. We had a USAS, a Saiga 12, a Benelli M4. Like, these were not skeet guns. We just fucked.

Ian McCollum (70:44)

Around. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (70:44)

Yeah. Trench gun. Trench.

Ian McCollum (70:47)

Shotgun. Okay.

Brandon Herrera (70:48)

Yeah. Which actually is probably the best one of the. That and the.

Ian McCollum (70:51)

M4.

Eli (70:52)

Yeah. Guns. What the fuck? What the fuck? This is all this crazy shit. I have no idea. Oh, yeah. So going back to just really quick. Favorite YouTuber.

Ian McCollum (71:01)

Though.

Eli (71:02)

No. Watching Guns. Like, who did you watch? You like, hey, here's this. Or what was that Next Generation, where you were like, oh, here's a different style of the same content. But I really enjoy watching this.

Ian McCollum (71:12)

Individual. Honest, honestly, kind of with Brandon. I don't watch a lot of guntube, and I kind of never have. These days, I'm just too busy. I do a lot of filming and a lot of research and a lot of editing, and I just don't have a lot of time for watching other people's content, which sucks, because there is cool stuff out there that I would like to be able to. I haven't read a fiction book in, like, 10 years because I just don't have.

Eli (71:40)

Time. It's the fear also, a lot of times. And content creators will talk about this. It is. I don't want to have this idea pushed on me or I don't want to steal this guy's idea. So I won't watch it just in case. And I get my interpretation of how I want to present this. So you won't watch people's.

Brandon Herrera (71:56)

Content. Mine is much lazier. I just don't.

Eli (71:59)

Care. Oh, trust me, I'm worse at watching.

Brandon Herrera (72:03)

Because. Well, I mean, it is. It is serious where, you know, if you make your hobby your job, it ceases to be a hobby. So, like, when I've been doing gun shit all day, the last thing I want to do is go sit and, like, turn on my fucking smart TV and sit on the couch and watch more shit of what I Already did all.

Ian McCollum (72:19)

Day. I'm weird in that way in that I. I do this day in, day out and I have not burned out on.

Brandon Herrera (72:26)

It.

Ian McCollum (72:26)

Really? Yeah, I still love doing.

Eli (72:28)

It. I. Yeah, don't get me wrong, my.

Ian McCollum (72:30)

Friend. Probably a.

Brandon Herrera (72:32)

Couple. I still love.

Ian McCollum (72:36)

It. So the problem that I've run into is one of, like, mental damage from grinding it for so long, which is that I have a very hard time relaxing or taking a vacation. Like, I can't sit on a beach and drink a margarita. It just. Five minutes in, I'm antsy, I'm bored. This is unproductive. No, I got to do.

Brandon Herrera (72:59)

Something. Two days in, I'm like having a panic attack. Yeah.

Donut Operator (73:03)

That'S. That's. Dude, that's us. Like, we did that a couple months ago. Like, I got an. I got a nice beach house for everyone to come hang out at. And I got it for seven days so my family could stay there and shit. But, like, we all got together and we're like, we can only be there for like two days max, because we were all at the same time. We're just like, I gotta. I gotta work. Like, I gotta do the.

Brandon Herrera (73:22)

Thing. You wait two.

Donut Operator (73:23)

Days. It was fucking.

Ian McCollum (73:24)

Awesome. You'll appreciate this and you'll actually get the reference. Years ago, actually, it was like five years ago now. My wife really wanted to find something that the two of us could do together without me turning it into work. Because normally, like, if we go anywhere, I'm going to like, oh, did you know they had the I'm going to go off and need to film something.

Brandon Herrera (73:45)

Or. I think I know where you're going with.

Ian McCollum (73:46)

This. And so for Christmas, she got us scuba diving.

Brandon Herrera (73:49)

Lessons. So the, the.

Ian McCollum (73:50)

Spearfishing. No. Oh, no, it's better than that in several ways. Oh, yeah, okay. So this was a surprise to me. Like, I didn't. I know her motivation now, but I didn't know it at the time. I was just like, oh, you know, the coolest presents are always the one that's just an.

Donut Operator (74:02)

Envelope. There were guns in the ocean, sort.

Ian McCollum (74:05)

Of. I open it up and she's sitting there thinking, like, this is going to be something fun we can do to relax. It won't be work. I opened up like, scuba diving list. Did you know the Russians had an underwater.

Brandon Herrera (74:15)

Rifle? The.

Ian McCollum (74:16)

Aps? Yes. And the Germans had one and there's some. And she was like, oh, Jesus, Jesus. And what makes it better is that now about five years on, we have actually started a second channel entirely dedicated to scuba diving. No shit. Yeah, no.

Eli (74:33)

Shit. That actually turned into a.

Ian McCollum (74:34)

Complete. Yes. I've now literally turned her thing. We can do that. I won't turn into work. Into a legitimate second piece of.

Donut Operator (74:41)

Work. Do you want to share the.

Ian McCollum (74:42)

Channel? Deep dive with Ian.

Donut Operator (74:44)

Nice. Yeah, Deep dive with.

Ian McCollum (74:46)

Ian. So we ran it. It's been going in.

Eli (74:48)

Water. Deep diving sounds terrifying to me. Oh, deep caving.

Ian McCollum (74:52)

Sorry. Like, oh, God, I'm not doing.

Eli (74:55)

Cave. It's just there's a certain. I get so low.

Ian McCollum (74:57)

Pressure. So we ran.

Brandon Herrera (74:58)

It. Me and Eli have that Mexican bone density where water is not our best.

Eli (75:01)

Friend. Yeah, yeah.

Ian McCollum (75:03)

Yeah. We ran the channel for a number of months just to get some content in it before we announced it anywhere. And I've mentioned it once or twice on Forgotten Weapons. It's right now it's one video every two weeks. I think at the beginning of next year we're going to bump it to one per week and then it'll just live.

Brandon Herrera (75:19)

There. I've seen some of your content you posted to Instagram a while back. Like the harpoon fishing? Yeah, yeah, like that shit seems pretty.

Ian McCollum (75:26)

Cool. It was very cool. Yeah, it was.

Brandon Herrera (75:28)

Neat. Where'd you guys.

Ian McCollum (75:29)

Go? That was Pensacola. Really nice. So lion. That was a lionfish hunt. Lionfish are beautiful fish. You'll see them in aquariums all the time. Red and white striped with these big, I don't even like almost floral looking fins. They live in the Indo Pacific and they're. The spines are venomous, not lethal. But they hook you up, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, they will. Especially if you get stung 90ft underwater and you don't react well. Like, you'd better be able to keep calm and collected. But they have no defense mechanism that like, that is their defense mechanism against other fish. And they came over to the Caribbean probably in ballast on a freighter and absolutely took over. They're invasive as hell. They will eat a third of their body weight every day. No, they obliterate reef.

Eli (76:21)

Systems. Very, very, very bad. Like, cannot stress how. They are hogs. They.

Ian McCollum (76:26)

Are. They're the hogs of the wild, of the Caribbean and. And now the entire coast of north and South America. Like all the way down into Brazil, all the way up almost to New.

Eli (76:37)

England. Now they murder these fucks. Like that one guy, he shows a.

Ian McCollum (76:41)

Video. Oh, there's a guy with a classic guy with a Glock in Florida shooting the.

Eli (76:45)

Things. Oh, I seen the guy with the spear and he just, he had to do a video explaining why he's killing all this thing and putting in the little Vacuum.

Ian McCollum (76:52)

Tube.

Eli (76:53)

Yeah. He's like, these are.

Brandon Herrera (76:54)

Terrible. These.

Ian McCollum (76:54)

Are. What really makes it bad is that nothing eats them. Nothing on our side of the world recognizes them as prey. So nothing eats them. Like there are lots of fish that could. Groupers could eat them, sharks could eat them. All sorts of things could eat them. But they don't see them as prey. So they.

Brandon Herrera (77:10)

Don'T. Just hundreds of generations of not knowing what the fuck that thing.

Ian McCollum (77:13)

Is. So maybe that'll change over time. But in the meantime, the only thing that keeps them in check is human predation. And what's convenient is they taste.

Brandon Herrera (77:22)

Delicious. That's what I was.

Ian McCollum (77:24)

Wondering. They are.

Donut Operator (77:24)

Fantastic. Are.

Ian McCollum (77:25)

They?

Donut Operator (77:25)

Yeah. Have you cleaned one.

Ian McCollum (77:27)

Yourself? Are.

Donut Operator (77:28)

They. Are they hard to do? Like.

Eli (77:29)

No.

Ian McCollum (77:30)

Okay. Normally the guys who are really good at it don't even bother with the spines. Like they're just dexterous enough. They know what to do. And if you're not, you just take a pair of scissors and there's three or four separate spines and you just. And then there's nothing to it. Like there's no poison in the fish. It's only being. Being pricked by the spines on the outside that is dangerous. So you just take the filet off each side and throw the rest into the.

Eli (77:56)

Water. Nice.

Donut Operator (77:57)

Man. How much meat does like one good one yield a.

Ian McCollum (78:00)

Lot? Or my wife and I measure them in.

Donut Operator (78:03)

Tacos. Oh, nice. One.

Ian McCollum (78:05)

Taco. Three tacos, a five taco. Lionfish is about as big as you'll ever see. That's pretty. And that's like that.

Donut Operator (78:12)

Big. That's pretty.

Ian McCollum (78:12)

Cool. Something about that size is.

Donut Operator (78:14)

Typical. So there's no regulations. You can kill as many as you.

Ian McCollum (78:18)

Want. It depends on where you are. But it's a lot like hogs in some places. Like kill as many as you want with scuba in a marine protected sanctuary, we don't care. Just kill them.

Brandon Herrera (78:30)

All. Although that's very funny thought like, oh yeah, I'm a professional harpoon lionfish.

Ian McCollum (78:36)

Poacher. Yeah. Normally spearfishing is not compatible with scuba. It's basically seen as unsportsmanlike. It's too easy and it'll decimate fish populations. And it did in the early days of scuba. So usually if you are legally spearfishing, you're doing it free diving. You ever done it free diving? No. The only thing I've ever spearfished is.

Brandon Herrera (79:01)

Lionfish.

Ian McCollum (79:02)

Gotcha. We did the one day we. It was a couple day trip and one day was just kind of learning it, understanding how do I use the spear gun? And then the day we went out hunting, we did, like, 76 of them, three of us together, which is small potatoes by some people's professional.

Eli (79:19)

Standards. This is. Imagine a piece of coral, and everywhere you look, there is a lionfish. This is like. Yeah, you're not supposed to be there. So.

Ian McCollum (79:27)

Like. Oh. But the funny thing is their defense mechanism is spines. They don't know to run away from anything. You can have five of them in a space of the size of this table, and you spear one after another, and the fifth one just sits there the entire time. Yeah. Doesn't. Doesn't recognize danger. Yes. Now, if you try to hit one and you miss it, they figure that out and then they'll. They'll.

Brandon Herrera (79:52)

Run. It's funny, that reminds me of the. The. I don't know, the Instagram reels or whatever. You see where they. They build the little cardboard traps with the hole where the birds will just walk onto it to get the feed and just. They'll watch their friends fall down the hole and just keep. Don't fucking think anything of.

Ian McCollum (80:07)

It. Exactly like.

Eli (80:08)

That. Go this.

Donut Operator (80:08)

Way. Dude. I never knew that about lionfish. I thought that was always, like, this beautiful protected species. I never heard that.

Ian McCollum (80:15)

Before. No. They kill them in the US Kill them all in the Pacific. They're not an issue because they have natural.

Brandon Herrera (80:21)

Predators. That was the first thing I thought when somebody mentioned going iguana hunting in Florida. Yeah. Because, you know, in my mind, I'm like, okay, I have not really seen a whole lot of iguanas in my.

Eli (80:31)

Life.

Brandon Herrera (80:31)

Right. You figure, like, that sounds exotic, should be protected. I had no idea that they were a massively invasive.

Ian McCollum (80:37)

Species.

Eli (80:37)

Yeah. This is crazy about a lot. Hogs are a good example of, oh, well, you're just wasting their corpses. That's not right. And you're like, no, if we don't kill 700 out of a million. If you kill 750,000 of them, a million by the next breeding season. That's wild. Yeah, it's like, hey, no, we have to curve the whole board.

Donut Operator (80:59)

Essentially. And that's why you always see the videos that dudes just having fun with them just on a truck or with like a 50, maybe just like, plowing them.

Brandon Herrera (81:06)

Down. Because.

Donut Operator (81:06)

I'm. They up. Like, especially Texas, the agriculture in Texas, they everything. And there's so many people online, it's like you're not even eating.

Ian McCollum (81:16)

Them.

Donut Operator (81:17)

That. That thing's like, no, no, no. They need to.

Brandon Herrera (81:19)

Go. I'm. I'm a big animal.

Ian McCollum (81:20)

Lover. They are worth Eating, Like, I did a lot of my. When I learned to hunt, a lot of it was on hog. And the meat, if you. If you process it, well, it's good.

Brandon Herrera (81:28)

Meat. Depends where you're at, too, I.

Ian McCollum (81:30)

Think.

Eli (81:30)

Yeah. If they're eating.

Ian McCollum (81:31)

Trash. Well, that's true.

Brandon Herrera (81:33)

Yeah.

Eli (81:33)

Yeah. And again, it is so many. You have to kill just to maintain the equilibrium of that species. Like, and hogs, you can't eat everyone you shoot. You'd.

Brandon Herrera (81:45)

Be. I'm gonna. I'm a big animal lover. Like, I don't like to kill for the sake of killing. You know, that sort of thing. Like, I'm down for hunting, but, like, I feel. You know, I feel a little empathy for the animal. Hogs, I feel nothing. Like, those are just less than living creatures. Yeah. The first time you see one gore a golden retriever, like, all bets are.

Ian McCollum (82:02)

Off. You're like, you can't.

Eli (82:05)

Imagine. Yeah, I forgot about.

Brandon Herrera (82:07)

That. Yeah. We did the. The knife hunt with the dogs and everything like.

Donut Operator (82:10)

That. That was my first time ever.

Ian McCollum (82:11)

Hunting. Dang.

Donut Operator (82:13)

Knives. Knives, they make the knife.

Ian McCollum (82:15)

Squeals. You know, we have technology for this.

Donut Operator (82:18)

Now. I feel.

Ian McCollum (82:20)

Good because he's like, we go to.

Eli (82:25)

Florida.

Brandon Herrera (82:26)

Swords. We go to Florida for this hunt. And I'm like, oh, so, like, what kind of hunting have you done? Because this was years ago. We went down there. I'm like, oh, so, like, what's your experience hunting? He's like, I've never done knife. He's like, I've never gone hunting before. I'm like, oh, well, this is gonna be a hell of an intro. Like, most people start with deer, you know, duck, dove, something like that. You're like, now, bowie knife.

Donut Operator (82:48)

Hog. Yeah, it was cool.

Ian McCollum (82:50)

Shit. I mean.

Donut Operator (82:52)

It'S. I was very adverse to hunting because when I was, like, 14, I got shot in the face with a.

Ian McCollum (82:58)

Bow.

Donut Operator (82:59)

Oh. It's like, I really didn't want to go.

Ian McCollum (83:00)

Around. Oh.

Donut Operator (83:02)

Yeah. I got a hole in my.

Ian McCollum (83:03)

Mood.

Donut Operator (83:04)

Wow. Yeah, so I got a little hole right there. So I never really hunted. And we go down there, which was hilarious because it was me and you. Kentucky.

Ian McCollum (83:11)

Ballistics.

Donut Operator (83:12)

Yeah. And Chuck.

Brandon Herrera (83:13)

Liddell. It was a wild.

Ian McCollum (83:16)

Crew. And they walked into bar. Is this a.

Brandon Herrera (83:18)

Punchline? Oh, we walked into a couple.

Ian McCollum (83:22)

Bars. I bet you.

Brandon Herrera (83:23)

Did. They.

Donut Operator (83:24)

Had. They had the pits with Kevlar so the hogs didn't gore them. And the pits would, like, grab by his face and hold it down. You just got this big bowie knife and you just shank.

Brandon Herrera (83:36)

It. I remember feeling kind of bad because Like I'd never hunted with dogs before in my life. Like that always seemed a little like, I don't know, I'm conflicted about.

Eli (83:44)

This and have you seen.

Brandon Herrera (83:46)

Nature? Well, you know, train dogs to fight. Well, for one, like if you're, you're having. I don't know, I just, I have certain reservations.

Eli (83:54)

But. Oh, you know just the worst part about traveling in a bad.

Brandon Herrera (83:59)

Suitcase? Being on the no Fly.

Eli (84:01)

List. Cops. I was thinking more about the luggage and what it can.

Donut Operator (84:05)

Carry. Oh, the.

Brandon Herrera (84:06)

Luggage. Yep.

Eli (84:07)

Yep. Like, you know, it's like easy to break into your luggage or not break. Bright and colorful or pink is just a me.

Donut Operator (84:14)

Thing. I hate.

Eli (84:15)

Zippers. I don't think you can say that today's sponsor has a solution for.

Brandon Herrera (84:20)

That. Cody, who's the.

Ian McCollum (84:21)

Sponsor? Eli.

Donut Operator (84:22)

Noble. Are they.

Brandon Herrera (84:24)

Zipperless? They in fact.

Eli (84:26)

Are. Noble has completely removed the.

Donut Operator (84:28)

Zipper. Cody, how did they do.

Eli (84:30)

That? I don't know, but they do because they've created zipperless latch lock design. Kind of like a.

Brandon Herrera (84:37)

Safe. See the two halves meet with a tight.

Ian McCollum (84:39)

Seal. I should call.

Brandon Herrera (84:41)

Her. Most people don't even know this, but like a ballpoint pen can pierce most zippers on like travel backpacks and stuff like.

Donut Operator (84:47)

That. Noble is the safest luggage out there. It has a latch lock so that no one can get into your bag. And now you don't have to sit in the floor to charge your phone. They have built in charging ports in the.

Eli (84:57)

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Brandon Herrera (85:03)

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Eli (85:07)

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Brandon Herrera (85:14)

Shipping. And did we mention it has a lifetime warranty? No, we didn't, but it.

Donut Operator (85:17)

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Brandon Herrera (85:21)

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Eli (85:24)

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Donut Operator (85:29)

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Brandon Herrera (85:34)

Purchase. After you purchase, they're going to ask where you heard about.

Eli (85:36)

Them. Please support our show and tell them we sent.

Brandon Herrera (85:40)

You. And then I watched one of these dogs get fucking tossed like 15ft by this pig. And I'm new to this world. I'm like, oh shit. Like, is the dog okay? Dog smacks the ground, rolls, gets up and it's just like he's having the best fucking day of his life. Like, this is what They're. They're made for and they love.

Ian McCollum (86:00)

It. And Chuck Liddell is like, I recognize.

Brandon Herrera (86:02)

That. Yeah.

Donut Operator (86:03)

Exactly.

Eli (86:03)

Yeah. The dog was chocolate. Chuck came running on all.

Brandon Herrera (86:08)

Fours. They both.

Donut Operator (86:09)

Pant. This dog. Yeah, you guys all went first. And then they. I ended up with the biggest goddamn pig.

Brandon Herrera (86:18)

Ever. When. When they got your pig because like that took a minute for you to kill it. Because it was a.

Donut Operator (86:22)

Big. I was hitting it right where it should have been. Like I know where a heart is and I'm just digging and just like just stabbing this things a hell of a.

Ian McCollum (86:32)

Sound. I'm pretty happy to just stick with a rifle, I.

Brandon Herrera (86:35)

Think. Well, see that was the thing when they. When they butchered his pig. They were like. They recognized it. They were like, we knew. We knew this was on property. Like we. He was a mean fucker. So they have these cartilage plates on their shoulders and they. They peeled the plate out. It had healed up buckshot in it. Where people would try to take this fucker down with.

Donut Operator (86:56)

Shotgun. They had other pigs tusks in it. Like buckshot. Like it had tons of in.

Eli (87:01)

It. Wow. Pig's.

Ian McCollum (87:02)

Eye.

Eli (87:03)

Dude. That was the first time it was flying in a little helicopter. Shooting one. I was like, maybe I'm missing cuz it was a big.

Brandon Herrera (87:10)

One.

Eli (87:10)

Just. Just charging. I probably missing cuz it's not falling. I aim up just a smidge. I'm like maybe. I don't know. Let's figure.

Brandon Herrera (87:20)

Out.

Eli (87:21)

Boom. I see dirt. I'm like, I'm hitting this in the side and it is just sprinting. I was like, okay, let's aim a little forward. It dropped, but they will eat. And that was a. That was a 762. That was a really.

Brandon Herrera (87:35)

Round.

Donut Operator (87:35)

Yeah. Oh no.

Eli (87:36)

No. Yeah. And it was just full charging. 8, 10, 15 rounds aimed up. Seeing the dirt kicked up, readjusted. That was the only thing that put it down.

Donut Operator (87:49)

Yeah.

Eli (87:49)

Those. Those their little arm plates here.

Donut Operator (87:54)

And they have their bones. Yeah, it's.

Eli (87:56)

Nasty. Eat bullets all day long. Like so with your. Okay, so you don't watch gun YouTube. What would you watch if you actually. Or are you like. I just.

Ian McCollum (88:07)

Work. I like my work. Yeah, no shit. I don't.

Eli (88:10)

Know. So it's 24.

Ian McCollum (88:11)

7. Yeah. Yeah, pretty much.

Eli (88:13)

Yeah. What do you do for fun other than make your scuba more work? That is your fun time. Which is now also.

Ian McCollum (88:20)

Work. Occasionally I do other stuff, but it's usually going to be like history oriented in some way. Because that's what interests me. A couple friends and I went to East Falkland and hiked the British paratrooper OMP across East Falkland a couple of years ago. Like, that was a vacation that was.

Brandon Herrera (88:41)

Fun. You seem to be traveled like.

Ian McCollum (88:44)

As far as 60 miles, 100.

Donut Operator (88:45)

Kilometers. You guys hiked the whole.

Ian McCollum (88:49)

Thing. We rocked.

Eli (88:49)

It. That's why when he said, that's my vacation, I was like, how many miles was this vacation? Like, 60 miles.

Brandon Herrera (88:56)

Yeah. You seem to get across Europe all over the place. Like, just going to a bunch of historically significant.

Ian McCollum (89:01)

Places. I have, yeah. I've worked up some really good relationships with a bunch of collectors and organizations in Europe. We have a tremendous number of cool guns here, but there's a lot of stuff that just doesn't exist here, and it does exist in Europe, and so I spend time in both.

Brandon Herrera (89:20)

Places. I'm actually not sure the answer to this. Have you been to the Zastava.

Ian McCollum (89:24)

Factory? No, I have not. I've been to HS product a couple times in Croatia, but I have not actually been to.

Brandon Herrera (89:31)

Serbia. And I know that kind of their claim to fame is. And maybe this is true, but I heard it was true that they still have from the war in the 90s, they still have a crater in their. The campus of their. Their.

Ian McCollum (89:45)

Factory. Oh, I totally believe.

Brandon Herrera (89:46)

That.

Ian McCollum (89:47)

Yeah. I don't know for sure, but that's 1,000%.

Brandon Herrera (89:50)

Plausible. So historically, the breakup of Yugoslavia was not exactly peaceful. And so the Zastava arms factory is in Serbia and they apparently were being shelled during that time. And there's a giant fucking crater that's still in the campus of that arms factory where you get like Zostava, like M70s, M77s, whatever. Like those AK variants in the States, they're still made in Serbia at that.

Eli (90:13)

Factory. No shit. It's fucking wild. So what would be your dream museum or gun library to check out or do a video on right.

Ian McCollum (90:23)

Now? Probably the one at the top of my list is the German Army Technical Museum in a town called Koblenz in Germany. And I've actually tried getting. Making some contacts there and there seems like there's German government bureaucracy that it's probably not going to really work well. But it is an amazing collection with a ton of weird, interesting World War II stuff, German and.

Donut Operator (90:49)

Other. Why do you think they're giving you pushback on.

Ian McCollum (90:51)

That? Because they're a government. Because I want to go into the back rooms of a German military small arms facility and play with stuff. And dash is not.

Donut Operator (91:04)

Possible. We should talk to some guys about.

Eli (91:07)

That. I know that's How I'm like. I'd rather just hear like, hey, here's my 1, 2 and 3. And then we can see what is possible from those 1, 2 and.

Ian McCollum (91:16)

30S. The thing with collections like that. So first off, with museums, basically it's irrelevant to me what's on display at the museum because I'm not going to be able to film it because they're not going to disassemble the museum display for me to come in and do video. And museums usually display the most common stuff. They're going to display the things that people will recognise. You go into the US Marine Corps Museum, you want to see M16s, M60s, M1 Garands, 1911s. You don't necessarily want to like. No one's going to recognise the McClean gun that they've got in the back. That is the original predecessor to the Lewis. Only two ever existed. It looks like a sci fi prop and it doesn't really.

Brandon Herrera (91:58)

Work. Now I'm pulling out.

Ian McCollum (92:00)

My. Yeah, but they've got.

Eli (92:01)

One. What's it.

Ian McCollum (92:02)

Called? McLean McClean Mc Clean. That's the stuff that I'm gonna go to. Yeah, yeah.

Brandon Herrera (92:12)

Right. What the fuck? Yeah, yeah. That's that steampunk shit I like from the turn of the century. That's fucking.

Ian McCollum (92:17)

Crazy. What the fuck? Yeah, Q had more.

Donut Operator (92:24)

Parts. More.

Eli (92:25)

Parts.

Ian McCollum (92:25)

What? So. So, for example, the U.S. marine Corps Museum has or had one of those more springs. That's what I want to go film. So I have to get into the back of a museum and depending on who owns it, there's going to be various regulations. If it's a military facility, there's usually very formal, strict regulations on how, you know, you need a security clearance or you need some sort of permission from somebody. And so these always basically come down to personal connections. I need to find someone who I can speak to personally at a facility who can either authorize it or get authorization on my.

Brandon Herrera (93:02)

Behalf. Eli, do you want to tell the.

Eli (93:04)

Story? I don't know what the fuck I'm looking at. It looks like a. As you said, steampunk sci fi weld.

Ian McCollum (93:13)

Something. You can breathe underwater with.

Eli (93:15)

It. It's a giant.

Ian McCollum (93:16)

Spring, but you can see the magazine on there. You can see the origin of a few of the little.

Eli (93:22)

Bits. Yeah, dude, that's.

Brandon Herrera (93:24)

Wild. That looks like something straight out of.

Eli (93:26)

Bioshock.

Brandon Herrera (93:26)

Yes. Yeah, but Eli, do you want to tell a story about fucking Ethan? Habitual. Habitually.

Eli (93:32)

Fat. On which.

Brandon Herrera (93:34)

One? Access to a.

Eli (93:35)

Museum. Which. Oh, oh, actually.

Brandon Herrera (93:39)

The. Yeah, I Think there was.

Ian McCollum (93:42)

A. What was that.

Brandon Herrera (93:42)

For? I was in Oklahoma, Fort Sill, Fort.

Eli (93:45)

Seal. That was the guys having an issue. We were. They had clearance to go to this museum that is open to the public. Like, okay, hey, can we get on base? He cleared it with everyone weeks in advance. And then.

Brandon Herrera (93:59)

They. Three people fly in from three different places to make this.

Donut Operator (94:02)

Happen. This is also Hipposhole. Line.

Ian McCollum (94:04)

Crosser.

Donut Operator (94:05)

Right. Who? Military. You have Nick Prior.

Eli (94:08)

Military. And.

Donut Operator (94:10)

Then. Yeah. And full.

Ian McCollum (94:11)

Finn.

Donut Operator (94:11)

Yeah. Camera.

Eli (94:12)

Guy. But, like, all three. Okay, it's been.

Ian McCollum (94:15)

Cleared.

Eli (94:15)

Cool. Everything's good to go. You're allowed on base and you can film this. So day of, what happens is, hey, we are landing. We show up. Oh, no, we can't do that. It's like, why? Why not? Well, we need to get Jag involved. Why? Well, you have a whole bunch of followers, so. Well, this could look bad on.

Ian McCollum (94:35)

Us. Wait, we didn't think anyone was going to actually watch.

Eli (94:37)

You. Yeah, it was like, oh, well, you have a bunch of followers, so now you could actually damage our reputation. So you cannot be seen doing this. And then they pulled.

Donut Operator (94:48)

It. The military guys. That would make the military look good. The dudes who were in or are in at the moment, which is fucking.

Eli (94:56)

Wild. This will look good. This is great pr. This is great. Everything, if you let this happen. And.

Ian McCollum (95:02)

Then. No, I had a gun factory that I arranged a very similar sort of thing. Like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna spend three days filming, and I'm gonna get all sorts of cool content about this company's old cool. Like, you guys would love them. Brandon would love them.

Donut Operator (95:18)

Yeah. You're the gun.

Brandon Herrera (95:19)

Guy.

Ian McCollum (95:19)

Yeah. And I flew there and I got in and I'm like, all right, so where should I set up? And they're like, set up for what? I'm like, for filming. And they're like, oh, that's not possible. And I'm like, what? Like, why am I here? And I flew home. I've had that happen.

Brandon Herrera (95:38)

Once. Holy.

Eli (95:39)

Shit. You actually flew there. And then they were like, oh, no, we.

Ian McCollum (95:42)

Can'T. And it ended.

Eli (95:43)

Yeah. I.

Ian McCollum (95:44)

Mean. And they're like, oh, no, you can't film.

Eli (95:45)

Anything. So the.

Ian McCollum (95:46)

Guys. I'm like, actually.

Eli (95:49)

What? They were turned away at the gate. I called. I knew nothing about this other than Nick. I called. Nick is like, hey, how goes.

Ian McCollum (95:56)

Filming? And he was like, so, funny story about.

Eli (95:59)

That. Yeah, we got turned away, but we have a solution where driving an hour down south, we'll film there. There's a museum Blah, blah, blah. I was like, fucking hold the fuck on, let me make a call. And thankfully, we have great relationships with the highest people in the military. And I just told them the situation was like, hey, this is stupid as fuck. And they agreed. They called and instantly Nick's like, they are allowing us back on base and giving us personal tour. I don't know what happened. I was like, I needed that.

Ian McCollum (96:30)

Connection and I didn't have.

Eli (96:31)

It. That connection is very helpful because they seen the big picture. It's like, this just looks good. Like across the board, this looks way better than, hey, we just turned these people away. Because the people that turned you away when you got there does.

Ian McCollum (96:47)

Not. Oh, I have, I have a very adversarial. Well, I don't think they know it, but I have a very adversarial relationship with.

Brandon Herrera (96:52)

Them. Now, we can cut this part from the podcast, but who was.

Ian McCollum (96:56)

It? I'll tell you later when we're off camera. I don't. I want to go back there and the content's too good for me to just burn a bridge. To burn.

Brandon Herrera (97:03)

It.

Ian McCollum (97:03)

Yeah. So I don't want to say who it is, but I've only had that happen once. What they think they were doing, I have no idea. I honestly don't know. I think part of it was the people who were making the decisions or the people, the people with the authority at that point were mid level managerial sorts who didn't really like guns and didn't really. They didn't know who I was, what I was doing, and didn't care. And like, I think it was.

Brandon Herrera (97:33)

The employee handbook says I'm not supposed to.

Ian McCollum (97:36)

Right? And what do I have to gain from taking a risk on anything? If it'd been upper management, they would have looked at, went, the chances are pretty good that our PR is going to come out better as a result of this. But you get down to the mid level where it's like, if this turns out great, my boss gets credit and if it turns out terrible, I get fired.

Brandon Herrera (97:57)

So nothing that's most. The government, frankly, I was gonna.

Eli (98:01)

Say, I was like, that is as government as it gets. So it's like, no, I don't want to take, nope, this is not worth the risk. I'm gonna play it safe, get JAG.

Ian McCollum (98:08)

Involved. Honestly, what's so fantastic now is I've been doing this long enough and I've built enough of a reputation that most of the museum and gun people that I work with know who I am now, and they've seen some of the work I've done. And, and they're willing to hand me a one off prototype and they're like, just don't break it.

Brandon Herrera (98:28)

Please. And, and you really don't go after people like, you don't do hit pieces. No.

Eli (98:35)

No.

Ian McCollum (98:36)

Yet. I mean, when does that start? Like the closest thing I. That one of the things I love is the vast majority of the work I do is with companies and designers who are dead and out of business. Yeah. Like I don't have to worry about offending Paul Mauser because he's dead.

Brandon Herrera (98:52)

You know, is what it.

Ian McCollum (98:54)

Is. Yeah. It makes it really easy to review guns without having like that social pressure, personal relationship thing built into.

Brandon Herrera (99:03)

It. I prefer it because, you know, there's a lot of people like, oh, you're just reporting on it this way because you have a personal vendetta against Sig. Nobody accuses me of that. For.

Ian McCollum (99:11)

Schmeisser. Right.

Brandon Herrera (99:13)

Exactly. It's really easy. I understand why you stick with what you.

Ian McCollum (99:16)

Do. Yeah, I've had some that are tough. Like a good example is full conceal. Do you remember.

Brandon Herrera (99:22)

Them? I remember.

Ian McCollum (99:23)

Them. I. I did not. I actually have a video coming on a full conceal. I bought it now that they're almost gotten weapon almost immediately. When they went out of business, I bought.

Eli (99:33)

One. What is.

Ian McCollum (99:34)

This? It's a folding.

Brandon Herrera (99:35)

Glock. You.

Eli (99:36)

Probably. Oh my.

Ian McCollum (99:37)

God.

Eli (99:37)

Yeah. Oh, man, that is so.

Brandon Herrera (99:39)

Recent. It was.

Ian McCollum (99:41)

Cool. I saw him at shot. Show is a neat idea. But. But it's so not going to work. I know it's not going to work. And I cannot in any sort of good faith do some sort of publicity on it that says that it's a good idea. Because it's.

Brandon Herrera (99:55)

Not.

Ian McCollum (99:56)

No. And so I don't want to get too hubristic here, but I don't want to be the guy who does a video on it and kills this little company. So I'm just going to wait because I know you guys are going to go out of business and then I'll cover.

Eli (100:10)

It. And they.

Ian McCollum (100:11)

Did. And they did. And I just, I did a backup gun match with a full conceal this summer. And the videos coming, how much was. Was like 600 bucks or.

Brandon Herrera (100:19)

Something. That's really not.

Ian McCollum (100:20)

Bad. It was, it was basically the price of a regular Glock 19.

Donut Operator (100:25)

Yeah. At the time you could just pull.

Ian McCollum (100:26)

Out. Did you, did you see.

Donut Operator (100:28)

Those? Yeah, that's, that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's kind of the same price. This one you could just pull out of your.

Brandon Herrera (100:34)

Waistband. The crazy part was they're less concealable than a Glock in a good.

Ian McCollum (100:41)

Holster.

Brandon Herrera (100:42)

Right. But. Oh yeah, you just put it in your.

Ian McCollum (100:44)

Pocket. Yeah, it was like intended for cargo pants.

Brandon Herrera (100:46)

Pockets.

Ian McCollum (100:47)

Yeah. Because you can just drop it in there when you wouldn't maybe take the time to put on a.

Brandon Herrera (100:51)

Holster. So when you're. But when you're being the sheepdog that everybody doesn't recognize as the gray man, where you're wearing your black rifle, coffee t shirt, your 511 tactical pants and your, you know, your Solomons with a high and tight and, you know, Oakley shades, I mean, nobody knows you have a.

Ian McCollum (101:08)

Gun. To be fair. No one's going to expect that. The guns, that blocky thing in the cargo pants.

Brandon Herrera (101:12)

Pocket. Fair enough. Well, I mean, it's kind of a similar concept as like the FM Nines and just like the folding. The B and T. Yeah, stuff like.

Ian McCollum (101:19)

That. I think they're really cool. Oh, they are like them.

Brandon Herrera (101:21)

Yeah. The only good use I ever saw for those was. I don't know, I don't remember if it was like future weapons, some military channel shit like 10 years.

Eli (101:31)

Ago. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (101:32)

Yeah. But the guy went to like a food court in the mall and had it out there on the table as if it was like his backup reserve battery for his.

Ian McCollum (101:40)

Laptop. Because that was sort of a thing at one point in that sort of.

Brandon Herrera (101:44)

Form. Yeah, but nobody knew it. He's just like, yeah, I was just sitting here with a machine gun on the table for three hours eating my Chick Fil A and nobody paid any attention. I'm like, that's kind of neat. But I don't know if there's a.

Donut Operator (101:56)

Purpose. Would you ever. Yeah, exactly. When would you ever fucking need.

Brandon Herrera (101:59)

That? You know what we're talking about, right? The little like the square, like the fold out machine guns. Like machine.

Donut Operator (102:04)

Guns. Didn't Kevin have.

Brandon Herrera (102:05)

One? Yeah, he did actually have one of the, the.

Ian McCollum (102:07)

Prototypes.

Brandon Herrera (102:09)

I'm. I'm blanking on exactly what it was, but it was one of like nine that was made. Yeah, it.

Ian McCollum (102:14)

Was. Someone like found all of those and discovered they were transferable.

Brandon Herrera (102:17)

Still.

Ian McCollum (102:18)

Really? It was some. The FM.FMBG9.FMG9 something. Yeah, it was one of those folding guns. Like, I think they just were sitting in some collection or some company stockroom or something. So the thing with Valmet was Valmet as a company tried to. They convinced the Finnish army, like we should try this stamped thing because it'll be cheaper and you'll pay less for your guns. And the Finnish army Was like pay less. We like the sound of that. Okay, give it a.

Donut Operator (102:48)

Try. When was.

Ian McCollum (102:49)

This? 76. Okay. 1970s. Because they started developing it a little bit earlier. They actually. How deep do you want me to get into.

Brandon Herrera (102:59)

This? Go for.

Ian McCollum (103:00)

It. I'm fucking.

Brandon Herrera (103:01)

Here. I don't actually know this a lot about.

Donut Operator (103:03)

This. We're having a masterclass on this right.

Ian McCollum (103:05)

Now. So here is. And by the way, I know this because I am currently working on a book on Finnish small arms. Really including development of Finnish.

Eli (103:13)

AKs. What's the name of.

Ian McCollum (103:14)

It? It is called Forged in Snow and it is currently on.

Eli (103:17)

Kickstarter. It's a really good name.

Ian McCollum (103:19)

Actually. It's a super cool looking cover with a. Yeah, yeah, I spent some time on.

Eli (103:25)

That. Yeah, that's really.

Ian McCollum (103:26)

Good. But yeah, it.

Brandon Herrera (103:27)

Covers. Where can we find links to.

Ian McCollum (103:29)

This? Because I would like to buy one Kickstarter. I can give you the.

Eli (103:33)

Link. We'll put it down.

Ian McCollum (103:35)

Below. Yeah, yeah, that'd be.

Brandon Herrera (103:36)

Awesome. Would love to do that. I will be clicking the links in the description and in the pinned comment of this.

Ian McCollum (103:42)

Episode. Thank.

Brandon Herrera (103:43)

You. Because I would really like to see.

Ian McCollum (103:44)

That. So it's not just AKs. It covers Finnish manufactured military, very small arms. So 1918 through basically present day. But of course the AK is a big part of that. And what's funny is from the very beginning when the Finns are adopting the ak, one of the only questions that there's real debate about is do we have aperture sights or notch sights? Do we use the standard AK notch or do we put an aperture back on the end of the dust cover and it comes down to like the aperture is more accurate but it's not as good in low light. And if you get it filled with mud or snow, it's hard to clean out. You get a notch site full of mud, it's easier to like wipe it out, get it.

Brandon Herrera (104:27)

Usable. That and if you do like the Galil route where it's on the dust cover, it's less reliable. Just because you have the motion on the dust cover, like the return to zero is.

Ian McCollum (104:37)

Questionable. It's interesting that that never seemed to really be an issue for the Finns. And I think part of it was they had. They expected relatively short engagement ranges. Like during the Winter War they used very few scoped rifles because they were usually, you know, they're in.

Eli (104:53)

Forests. So did they get open like my. Without any knowledge? I would have chosen open sight because okay, we just need quick acquisition if it's.

Ian McCollum (105:03)

Close. And that's why you're not an.

Eli (105:05)

Officer.

Ian McCollum (105:06)

Okay. They went with.

Brandon Herrera (105:08)

Aperture.

Eli (105:08)

Really? No shit. Even if we're close engagement. So like, you know we're gonna.

Brandon Herrera (105:12)

Use. So if I want to engage people at 50 yards, I want to make sure most of my vision of the target is.

Ian McCollum (105:17)

Obscured. So no, no. They came up with a solution to this. And it's on your.

Brandon Herrera (105:22)

Valmet.

Ian McCollum (105:22)

Okay. They added night sights five years or so after after they started production. The night sight is a notch. You take the aperture rear sight leaf and you flip it 180 degrees.

Eli (105:34)

Forward.

Ian McCollum (105:34)

Yeah. And you've got a big open notch. And that was for night fighting. But it also was a good solution for close quarters, for urban, for I'm in really tight brush. And it was recognised as being a dual purpose.

Eli (105:49)

Thing. No.

Ian McCollum (105:50)

Shit. At any rate, as we go forward a little bit in the 1970s, Valmet decided to make a run of stamped receiver guns with traditional AK style sights. Because there was still this argument, even though they'd adopted apertures, there was still an argument in the Finnish military that we would have been better off with open sights. And so Valmet convinced them to like, let's give it a try. You know, test the apertures against this new open sight gun that we have that we want to sell you. That's the M71. It's notable because it gets used, I think in Red Dawn. They end up selling them in the US as semi auto commercial guns. And they're like the closest thing you can get to an actual commie block ak. At first.

Brandon Herrera (106:32)

Yeah. Because that was what they used for I think the. A lot of the guns in Red dawn for like the RPKs and shit like that. Like they're dressing it up for guns you can't get in the States. You Forget like in 1983 or whenever Red dawn was filmed because it came out in 84, you couldn't get shit like that. So you could get Egyptian Modis and you can get Valmets. And that's what they.

Ian McCollum (106:53)

Used. And that's also why we have no surplus Carcano ammo. But we'll get into that.

Brandon Herrera (106:57)

Later. I'm curious where you're going with.

Ian McCollum (106:59)

That. So Valmet spends a couple of years developing their own stamped sheet metal receiver. Essentially their own akm. But they don't have the technical plans for the akm. They have to do it themselves. They put this open notch sight on it. They give it to the army. The army tests and goes, yeah, we're good. Like actually we'll take the one we had. So they go, oh shit, okay. And that's when they start moving it to the civilian market. Maybe we can sell these as a semi auto gun to civilians in Europe and in the us but they convinced the army to give them a try making the original pattern rifles, but now with stamped receivers because it'll be cheaper. They do it for five years and they come to the conclusion that the stamped receiver actually gives them no benefit. It's less durable. I mean the Finnish army is a conscript army. Everyone does mandatory service with a small cohort of full time professionals. So that if someone Russia invades, they call up all the reservists. They've got half a million men in the army but you give 18 year old conscript recruits stamped sheet metal AKs and they do dumb shit with them and they get bent or dented in ways that a solid chunk of steel receiver cannot get.

Donut Operator (108:15)

Dented. It's like a us brewing, like you'll unravel ball.

Ian McCollum (108:19)

Bearings. I had someone send me a video recently of some Swedish soldiers using their Sturmgewehr 90s, their PE 90s as pogo.

Eli (108:31)

Sticks. When you're in the military, you beat the shit out of your weapon. I will. My M4. That's when I got no new weapons or anything. When I bought in the civilian market, I would treat it the same way. It's like, oh, if I can.

Ian McCollum (108:48)

Jam.

Eli (108:49)

Yeah. If I can just foot stomp it to unjam. I was like, man, this is what I did. This is how I learned I.

Donut Operator (108:55)

Can do the exact pogo stick.

Eli (108:57)

It. Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (108:58)

Exactly.

Donut Operator (108:58)

Yeah. We pogo stick our guns all the.

Brandon Herrera (109:00)

Time. The running joke.

Ian McCollum (109:02)

About. No, no, I mean pogo stick. I mean the guy was using the bayonet lug and the front sight blade to stand on and hold the buttstock and jump on.

Eli (109:11)

It. That's fine. Yeah, it's still. I bet it worked.

Donut Operator (109:14)

Afterwards. Yeah, every gun there's a Brigham gives us. I like to pogo stick, test.

Brandon Herrera (109:20)

It. Speaking of which, I found the photo. Ah, yeah, that was the one where they still had. They disguised that. It's like the folding machine.

Ian McCollum (109:27)

Gun. Yeah. From. Was it RoboCop? I think it was.

Brandon Herrera (109:31)

Actually. Yeah.

Ian McCollum (109:32)

Yeah. It's got the radio antenna on it because it was supposed to be back then. It was a radio, not a backup battery for your.

Brandon Herrera (109:37)

Laptop.

Eli (109:38)

The. I remember that. Yeah, I remember Kevin bringing that, showing.

Donut Operator (109:43)

That. And then he stole my Hitler.

Ian McCollum (109:45)

Locket, as one has naturally, and a rifle grenade launcher on a star. Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (109:51)

Cool. It was an old.

Ian McCollum (109:54)

School. Oh, that's an old.

Brandon Herrera (109:56)

Suppressor. Yeah.

Eli (109:56)

Okay. And then he had.

Ian McCollum (109:57)

The. Doubles as a rifle grenade launcher.

Eli (109:59)

Though. Was it machine gun he brought.

Brandon Herrera (110:00)

Out? Oh, the Stoner 63. Yeah, he had a Stoner 63. A.

Donut Operator (110:04)

Nice. I love the rafiki, though, dude. Yeah, that thing was cool. That was my favorite counter strike.

Brandon Herrera (110:11)

Gun. Fun, fun fact about Red dawn, though. I was talking about this little. The other day because we. We just buried my grandfather.

Ian McCollum (110:20)

And.

Brandon Herrera (110:20)

Sorry. The. The town that he lived in in New Mexico was actually the exact same town that they filmed the original Red dawn in. So it's Las Vegas, New Mexico. And it's funny because there's still a bunch of. Around that town where they. They still have the mural of, like, the cowgirl up on the side of the. The building they have. In the town museum, they have the original plaque where the Russian reads it wrong. Like, oh, yes, great General Teddy Roosevelt killed many savages here. Like, that whole thing. Like, they have the. The original plaque and everything. The whole town. Like, you could just look around like you're just driving to get tacos or something. You're like, hey, wait a minute. That's where they blew up the train.

Ian McCollum (111:00)

Station.

Eli (111:01)

Nice. What? So with everything you do now, what is some of the weapons that are your favorite? You're like, okay, this is. I know you have your own collection. What would be your favorite in your.

Ian McCollum (111:11)

Collection? I don't really have a favorite in my own.

Eli (111:13)

Collection. You liar. That's what people say about their.

Ian McCollum (111:16)

Kids. So the thing is, the thing is, what interests me is new and interest in novel. Like, if I've had it for a long time, I'm less interested in it because I feel like, well, I kind of know about that. There's not a lot to go back and find about it. And so my favorite thing at any given time will be something that I've gotten in the last month or filmed or worked on or. And then over time, that kind of fades and like, ooh, I want to find something new and.

Donut Operator (111:42)

Different. Just like.

Eli (111:43)

Kids. Yeah.

Donut Operator (111:44)

Exactly. I've had this one 16 years. I need to make another.

Brandon Herrera (111:48)

One. All right, Leonardo DiCaprio. I had this one for two years. Time to trade.

Ian McCollum (111:53)

Out. So that. That helps me in a business sense in that I'm not always focused on the same thing. Like, oh, I filmed that one last week. Now let's go find something new and different. And finding something new and different is actually what interests.

Donut Operator (112:08)

Me. What's your dream? What's your dream thing that you want to do a video.

Ian McCollum (112:13)

On? Honestly, at this Point. It's something underwater. It's either an APS or an HKP11. Either one of those would be pretty.

Eli (112:25)

Awesome. HK.

Ian McCollum (112:26)

P11. Oh yeah. I filmed an HK P11. That's a fun story. Have you filmed with an APS yet?

Brandon Herrera (112:32)

No. I've never actually heard any that exist outside of.

Ian McCollum (112:36)

Russia. There have to be the thing that I kick myself at still.

Donut Operator (112:41)

God. The APS underwater.

Ian McCollum (112:42)

Rifle. Ten years ago at a gun show. I kid you not. Okay.

Eli (112:48)

Yeah. That looks like one of the fucking like the tranquilizer guns in Metal Gear Solid. Like this looks like something Kojima would look rounds.

Donut Operator (112:56)

Too. There's a little.

Brandon Herrera (112:57)

Dart. Dude, that.

Ian McCollum (112:58)

Thing. It's 545 but with a big nail instead of a.

Eli (113:02)

Bullet. Yeah. And it's the only weapon that will actually shoot underwater that is good for like 20ft or something crazy like.

Ian McCollum (113:08)

That. I kid you not. 10 years ago I found a spam can of APS ammo at a gun.

Eli (113:14)

Show.

Ian McCollum (113:14)

What? And I didn't know and I.

Brandon Herrera (113:16)

Didn'T. How.

Ian McCollum (113:16)

Much. I don't even remember how much it was. It was partly that. I know it was expensive, but I kick myself every day for not buying.

Brandon Herrera (113:26)

This. To be fair. What the fuck do you do with.

Ian McCollum (113:27)

It? That was the thing. Why would I spend. I mean it was probably like a thousand dollars at the.

Brandon Herrera (113:31)

Time.

Ian McCollum (113:32)

Yeah. Which was a tremendous amount of money. And what am I like API? There's none of those outside of Russia. What am I going to do with that thing? And now you're like pretty much, damn.

Eli (113:41)

It. I could have.

Ian McCollum (113:42)

Had. So what I do have is a case of 9 by 39. Because when that came in, I remember the APS ammo and I'm like, I don't have a gun. I don't know if they're ever going to come out with a gun. I'm buying a case of that.

Brandon Herrera (113:55)

Ammo. And the 9x39 very quickly went from like 80 cents around to like 5.

Ian McCollum (114:00)

Bucks. It was one batch that someone imported and that was.

Brandon Herrera (114:02)

It. Was it the wolf stuff or. Yeah, I've got a bunch of that too. Wolf and Tula. And then I've got like a couple like the SP6.

Ian McCollum (114:08)

SP5. That's.

Brandon Herrera (114:09)

Cool. I only have a couple because.

Ian McCollum (114:11)

You know, they're fucking expensive.

Eli (114:12)

Yeah. That's a fucking wild.

Ian McCollum (114:14)

Looking. Yeah. Underwater pistol. It's a derringer essentially. It has a removable barrel cluster of five shots and they're all pre sealed so that they're waterproof. They make. They make above water and Below water barrel clusters with different.

Brandon Herrera (114:29)

Projectiles. That is so.

Ian McCollum (114:31)

German. Oh yeah. And the Germans will not tell you anything about them because they are still secret. Very secret.

Brandon Herrera (114:40)

Dude. I so secret they make them.

Ian McCollum (114:42)

On DeviantArt and so secret that they're in HK's own book about HK. But HK won't say anything. And I asked an HK guy if I could get one and he didn't just say like, no, I can't let you see one. He said, oh, it's not possible. You can't film one of those. Like that's secret. It's. It's not possible. In this very Germanic mindset. And.

Brandon Herrera (115:06)

I. That American psycho. Why isn't it possible, you stupid.

Ian McCollum (115:10)

Bastards? And I took that personally and six weeks later published a video on a P7. Nice. So. Or a P11. Well, yeah, yeah, well, the.

Eli (115:18)

Fucking. The Famas. What you were saying about the Famas is what was wild to.

Brandon Herrera (115:22)

Me. You want to say that again in front of a.

Donut Operator (115:24)

Microphone? It.

Eli (115:25)

Is. Earlier we were talking and it is the Famas. I didn't realize it had that trigger or not the trigger, but the.

Ian McCollum (115:32)

The joystick, the little computer control thing with the, the giant DVR cable coming out of.

Brandon Herrera (115:37)

It. Because that's like a Famas D or something like that. It's like a different.

Donut Operator (115:41)

Variant. Fuck are you talking.

Ian McCollum (115:42)

About? F E L I N I.

Eli (115:44)

Know what a Famas is, but Metal Gear Solid.

Brandon Herrera (115:46)

Gun. I know what a Famas.

Ian McCollum (115:48)

Is. So in the 90s, basically, basically most of the major militaries in the world knew that computers were a thing and they came up with these super futuristic programs where we were going to computerize soldiers like Objective Combat Warrior, Future Combat Warrior. Either of those ring a.

Eli (116:07)

Bell? Future of Combat.

Ian McCollum (116:09)

Warrior. Like you're going to have a little flip down transparent display screen and a little computer that shows you where all your squad buddies are and you can look at your, your gun in the screen or your buddies, all that.

Eli (116:20)

Stuff. What was like the HK weapon that, that massive one that we were going to do? What's the big one with like.

Ian McCollum (116:27)

Oicw that had like the objective infantry combat weapon. Yeah, it was a 5.56 carbine and a 25 millimeter grenade launcher.

Eli (116:34)

Yes. But it had that same cable system and you could aim out and shoot without sticking your head out. Hey, I have a.

Ian McCollum (116:40)

Cable. The French actually did it and they came out with a version of the Famas that had this monstrous football sized scope on it that was a night vision scope and a magnified scope and a camera. And it had a display screen and you could hold the gun around a corner and see where it was aiming and record video on it and all this stuff. And it actually had a cable that plugged into the rifle because instead of the regular pistol grip lower on the rifle, you got a vertical front grip with a four button control pad to manipulate the technical capabilities of the computerised scope. And a small number of those parts kits have actually come into the U.S. including that they don't have the scope but they've got that front grip, lower assembly and the cable which I'd never.

Eli (117:27)

Heard. I know fromasis that was the first time he showed me. I was like I have never seen this fucking thing before in my.

Ian McCollum (117:33)

Life. I saw one come up the other day. They're the post rock housing. They're like $7,000 for the.

Brandon Herrera (117:38)

Kids. Oh my gosh, far too.

Donut Operator (117:40)

Much. But you know what that makes me think of? Like we want to create something futuristic. Nintendo came out with the Power.

Ian McCollum (117:45)

Glove.

Donut Operator (117:45)

Yeah. Instead of using the controller, it's like kind of the same concept. People can play video games better with this Power Glove. And it was the worst.

Eli (117:53)

Ever. Oh I guarantee soldiers dude, anytime we're in the military. Actually when I was in the military I remember I got to go to one the of of the meeting of future weapons and it was hey, we're building these suits for you guys to carry more a heavier. Yeah. So you could go in combat and last longer. And that's all we talked about. So of course they just want to add weight to us so we have to fight longer. Like look dude, now you can carry like £8,000 at any given time and these legs will do like 80% of the walking till they break and then you're going to do the rest. And I was like this is stupid. This is just so we have to work harder, but the machine does.

Donut Operator (118:36)

It. Private Eli stuck in his exoskeleton on the, on the side of a dirt road. She was like, oh.

Eli (118:42)

Man. Legs are still walking though. I'm like.

Ian McCollum (118:44)

Out. And it's.

Eli (118:45)

Like just taking me to.

Donut Operator (118:49)

War. They're still shooting at.

Eli (118:52)

Me. I want to go for.

Brandon Herrera (118:53)

Cover. The motherfucker is. As soon as those electronics fail, so do your.

Eli (118:58)

Femurs, Dude. It was one of those heavy ass cables coming from the famat. I was like that is one of those.

Ian McCollum (119:08)

Big. Oh.

Eli (119:08)

Yeah. That is a heavy platform that this future soldier is going to have to carry into combat in a given.

Ian McCollum (119:14)

Time. So what's neat about it is in to order in Order to do that, they had to come up with a way to mount a scope on a Famas, which. The Famas was one of those. It was in that generation of rifles that was developed before optics were a universal sort of thing. And it's got a carry handle, really. It's protective handle for the protector, for the charging handle. It's flimsy, it's plastic, it's not meant to be structural, but that's kind of the only thing you can mount optics on. So they kind of do it. It's a kludge. And in order for this new computerised system to work, they redesigned the upper of the rifle to give it a solid mounted picatinny rail that's a little bit lower and that's actually worthwhile. So what tended to happen is they issued the Filleen stuff a bit and most guys hated it because it was heavy and clunky and just.

Eli (120:04)

Garbage. Fucking.

Ian McCollum (120:05)

Surprised. You can't swim with that. But if you take it off and you put an E attack on the rail instead of. Now you got the pretty decent system. And it was. I think they made 25,000 of them. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (120:18)

Shit. Yeah, it's more than I would have thought.

Ian McCollum (120:20)

Yeah. And they're not bad. The charging handle is a little janky because I had to kind of cludge it to make it work with a lower rail. But what's really cool about those parts kits is they give you a way to mount an optic reliably on the gun. And actually they include an even lower rail up front for a laser, which was also a thing at the.

Eli (120:41)

Time. This is Cody. This is the weapon that has a three round burst and then a 25 round.

Brandon Herrera (120:46)

Mag. It bothers me so much. I know you have a.

Ian McCollum (120:49)

Defense. No, no, no, I don't, I don't. I don't have a defense. I have an explanation in two.

Eli (120:54)

Phases. So first off, first off, fuck.

Ian McCollum (120:56)

You. 25 rounds is the most you can put in a 5.56 magazine without curving.

Brandon Herrera (121:01)

It.

Ian McCollum (121:01)

Yes. The original AR15 mags are 25 rounds. The FAMAS mags are 25 rounds. That's why any longer than that you need weirder stamping because it's got to have a bend in it. The Famas did not have a burst mechanism until very shortly before adoption. The whole development process was safe, semi.

Brandon Herrera (121:19)

Full. That is the first thing that has ever been explained to me about that. That makes sense.

Ian McCollum (121:24)

Yeah. And then they adopted version seven. At version six, they're like, oh, and also we want to burst. And two Rounds is too few and four rounds is too much. Three round burst is the thing put in a three round burst and.

Donut Operator (121:36)

That'S where I think two is pretty.

Eli (121:37)

Cool. I like most combat, dude. I will hear anyone that is going into combat. If you're going into the military at all, you will not use full auto ever. You're going to be more effective with single shots on target. You're gonna have controlled pairs. And then your machine gun team, your open bolt weapon system, they are there to lay down fire. But again, that is to lay down fire and get heads down. It is not. I'm using three, unfortunately. Three round burst and then doing a control group at 300 yards, it just never happened. That's why in Vietnam they went from full auto to three round burst. Right. Like we went from a full auto weapon platform for the M16 to three round burst because I don't know why.

Ian McCollum (122:20)

They. I don't know why.

Eli (122:22)

Exactly. So this is from what we were told is because the massive waste.

Ian McCollum (122:27)

Of. That makes.

Eli (122:28)

Sense. Ammunition and missing during Vietnam. We were just spraying because. Oh shit. Trust me, I did that in combat. I put on three round bursts and just let him fly because I was like, I'm going to die. So I need to get as many bullets down there as possible. Oh, shit. I just got to get their head down. So you just. And then.

Brandon Herrera (122:44)

Reload. My problem with the FAMAS was always that you have a 25. Well, you developed a weapon system that's completely independent of like STANAG magazines where you have a three round burst and a magazine that holds an indivisible amount by.

Ian McCollum (122:59)

Three.

Brandon Herrera (123:00)

Yeah. Which. That was always kind of my motherfuck with it. And I've heard people cope on the Internet. They're like, no, no, no. You wanted to know you were out of.

Ian McCollum (123:08)

Ammo. No, that's all.

Brandon Herrera (123:09)

Crap. It's so.

Ian McCollum (123:09)

Bullshit. It's total.

Brandon Herrera (123:10)

Crap. It fucked with me so much. That was the first thing that like. Oh, the burst ratchet came later. I'm like, got.

Eli (123:15)

It. That makes.

Ian McCollum (123:15)

Sense. You know there's a stanagmag version of the Famas.

Brandon Herrera (123:18)

Right. I knew one existed. I've never seen.

Ian McCollum (123:21)

Them. Yeah. So the Navy bought tens of thousands of them. The French Navy did. It's the G2. The standard pattern is the F1. There was a G1 and then a G2 was the Navy.

Brandon Herrera (123:33)

Version. It said the Navy bought them. And I thought our Navy for a.

Ian McCollum (123:36)

Moment. I'm like, no, sadly, they're even gayer than I thought. You can recognize them because they're the Famas that have the full hand trigger guard.

Brandon Herrera (123:45)

Interesting.

Eli (123:46)

Okay. Oh, yeah, I forgot that was a thing. And they look fucking stupid as.

Ian McCollum (123:49)

Shit. So the thing is, in the 60s and. Well, in the 70s, France was not part of NATO's military integration. They were in.

Brandon Herrera (123:58)

NATO.

Ian McCollum (123:59)

Right. But what had happened.

Brandon Herrera (124:01)

Was. Yeah, yep.

Eli (124:02)

Yeah. That whole fucking.

Brandon Herrera (124:04)

Thing. Yep.

Ian McCollum (124:05)

Yeah. So the Famas magazine doesn't have a hold open tab. So it's like a quarter inch shorter than stanag, which is why you. You just can't adapt a Famas receiver to STANAG mags. It's too.

Brandon Herrera (124:15)

Short.

Ian McCollum (124:16)

Right. In this, what, 50s, I ought to know the history a little better than this. But essentially, De Gaulle was presented with the idea that under NATO, French troops would be subordinate to US Military command. And he wasn't a fan of that and said, how about, here's my counteroffer, we're leaving. So they left the military integration, which means when they developed the Famas, they're not Stanag. They just made the magazine that they wanted, and that was it. In the 90s, things had changed a bit. They wanted to sell the Famas on the export market. That's where the G2 comes from. The export market is obviously going to require Stanag mags. They want to sell it to anyone else in Europe. And at that point, the French Navy needed some new guns anyway, and so they bought that.

Brandon Herrera (125:03)

Model. So is it similar to kind of like the Steyr.

Ian McCollum (125:05)

Aug?

Brandon Herrera (125:06)

Yeah. Where they just like developed a.

Ian McCollum (125:08)

STANAG after that and like.

Brandon Herrera (125:09)

Exactly.

Eli (125:10)

Yep. I'm. Unfortunately, I have a Steyr Aug that doesn't take Stanags waffle mags. I'm like, oh, these are so expensive. Expensive. I got.

Brandon Herrera (125:19)

One.

Eli (125:19)

Two. That's good enough for.

Brandon Herrera (125:20)

Me. I intentionally got one that wasn't stanag because I love that, like, 42 rounder. Oh, so.

Ian McCollum (125:24)

It'S. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. When they had an option like that, you've got to get it because stanag's boring and.

Brandon Herrera (125:29)

Normal. Yeah. It's like, I've got. How many guns do I have that take Stanag Max.

Ian McCollum (125:32)

Right. I want.

Brandon Herrera (125:33)

Them.

Ian McCollum (125:33)

Weird.

Eli (125:34)

Yeah. Fellow from us. I know it's a.

Ian McCollum (125:36)

Piece. No, you don't, because it's.

Eli (125:39)

Not. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (125:40)

Sorry. Sorry.

Ian McCollum (125:42)

Everyone. See, the problem is everyone has this negative opinion of the French for all sorts of cultural reasons that I didn't.

Eli (125:47)

Realize. First off, I didn't realize During World War II, they thought they were going to hold that for a whole year longer. It was an actual surprise how fast the French Lost to everyone. That wasn't even the Germans were like.

Brandon Herrera (126:02)

What? Meth has entered the.

Ian McCollum (126:04)

Chat. Yeah.

Eli (126:05)

Dude. I did not know that was a giant reason why like all the French hate it was how fast like American generals. Everyone was like, they're going to hold off for at least. Okay, they're.

Ian McCollum (126:15)

Gone.

Eli (126:17)

Yeah. I was like, oh, I didn't know.

Ian McCollum (126:18)

That. The problem is nobody's actually used a Famas because they're so rare and so expensive in this country. And if people had, they would realize that they are better in every way than the Aug. We.

Brandon Herrera (126:28)

Are. Well, to be fair, right out the.

Ian McCollum (126:30)

Gate. I believe.

Brandon Herrera (126:31)

That. Because the OG is not. No, really my.

Ian McCollum (126:33)

Favorite. No, it's.

Eli (126:34)

Not. I just want a fucking from Moss for Metal Gear. That's all I.

Brandon Herrera (126:38)

Can. I'm working on. We're. We're about done with our rebuild so we're doing completely from scratch receiver. We've got the barrel cuz like it's a very complicated rebuild. If you don't yes. Have any of the anything and especially with an aluminum receiver, like that's damn near impossible to rebuild. So we had to just start from scratch and just kind.

Eli (126:54)

Of.

Brandon Herrera (126:55)

Yeah. But I think we'll. We'll get there in the next couple months, but. Excellent. I'm. I'm excited for it because I've never shot a Famas.

Ian McCollum (127:02)

Ever. Well, if you come do the Chauchat challenge with me, you can shoot my Famas too. You know that gun is interchangeable left to right handed with no new.

Brandon Herrera (127:10)

Parts. I believe that.

Ian McCollum (127:12)

Yeah. It's got two ejectors or two extractors. One's real, one's fake. And to switch it from left to right, you pull them out and you reverse them and put them back. And then there's a cheek. There's ejection ports on both sides covered by a cheek piece and you just pop it from one side to the other. Done. It's like 60 seconds left to right.

Brandon Herrera (127:30)

Hand. I see. I like that. That's.

Ian McCollum (127:32)

One.

Eli (127:32)

Yeah. Everybody. Jay. Jay is one of those collections. None of the. Our Utah buddy, the billionaire.

Brandon Herrera (127:40)

Guy. I don't think I met.

Eli (127:41)

Him. He's the one with the like he has a format. He has like all. Every pre ban HK he has.

Ian McCollum (127:47)

Ever.

Eli (127:47)

Nice. He has a World War I wall, a World War II wall and HK wall. And it is every FMOs. Well like every gun you could ever want. He's like, oh yeah, you want to shoot that and pull it off and it is in a walk in gun room. That's the Size of.

Brandon Herrera (128:01)

This. He's the.

Donut Operator (128:02)

One. Is that your fake date.

Brandon Herrera (128:03)

Guy? That's exactly what I was gonna.

Eli (128:05)

Ask. Yeah, that was the fake.

Brandon Herrera (128:07)

Date. I don't think the unsub audience knows about the fake.

Eli (128:09)

Date. I don't know if I've ever told that story. It was. Jay is a friend that you would. He dresses like, just flip flops short, like one of us. Just one of us. Jay is also extremely wealthy, Like a next level wealthy. So I had a first date, and this is God years ago. And we're like, oh, what do we do for the first date? We can't come up with an idea. And Jay's like, well, I'm just using my house. Like what? Like what? So I can't just pretend it's yours. Like, Jay.

Brandon Herrera (128:44)

What? This is what, a 12,000 square foot.

Eli (128:47)

Mansion? Oh, yeah. 12,000.

Ian McCollum (128:49)

74,000. Jesus.

Eli (128:50)

Christ. Yeah, so good lord has.

Ian McCollum (128:53)

A.

Brandon Herrera (128:54)

Okay. All.

Ian McCollum (128:55)

Right. This billionaire billionaire probably find something to do in the house like that.

Eli (128:59)

Okay. Yeah, he has a fucking estate. And Jay owns, like, this is a dude. Hey, I created a. What was.

Ian McCollum (129:09)

It? Creditrepair.com I was gonna say stories like this are usually like, I developed the better way for the milk bottle.

Brandon Herrera (129:16)

Plastic screw top lid, you, refrigeration strip that's in every grocery store in America. I built.

Ian McCollum (129:23)

That.

Eli (129:23)

Yeah. Creditrepair.com that was him. So it was like, oh, I built a big house. It was 8,000 square feet. Oh, I paid off said house in less than a month. I guess I'll build what the fuck I want at this period of my life. And he did. So he's like, oh, yeah, it's your house now. And we'll change out the painting and we'll make it look like your house. And then the butler, our private chef, is yours. Just pretend the again rich people shit where you have a dining room and a dining.

Brandon Herrera (129:50)

Room. And you were broke out of army.

Eli (129:52)

Eli. Yeah, this is. This is Eli. Like, I'm just moving out of la. It's not. Wow. This is a very different lifestyle apartment.

Donut Operator (130:01)

Eli. Yeah.

Eli (130:02)

Exactly. Like, I own a studio. I'm like, ah, what the fuck is.

Brandon Herrera (130:06)

This? But you did the respectful thing and said, absolutely, I will do it.

Eli (130:09)

100%. This is a great trick on a first date. We need.

Ian McCollum (130:12)

To. We need you this long term. I need this for like eight months.

Eli (130:15)

Please. You should definitely deceive the girl you're going on a date with right out the gate. So it's like, oh, shit. And I forget some of the friends Knew her and it was just, hey. Oh, shit. You're going to hang out with Eli tonight, man, that's crazy. His house is wild. She's like, huh?

Ian McCollum (130:33)

What? He owns a.

Eli (130:34)

House? Yeah, exactly. So I was like, okay, what do I do? I'll just get in Uber to the house for her. So she doesn't have. She can't look up the house. It's like, hey, I sent an Uber for you. It will be there and drive up. And it's driving up one of the mountainsides of Utah. And the Uber driver, she. That's when she explained. That's when I started freaking out. It's like, oh, your friend doing very nice. He was an Asian dude. Oh, your.

Brandon Herrera (130:57)

Friend. I couldn't.

Eli (130:58)

Tell. Yeah, it was the. The higher the Uber driver got in this mountainside. It's like, oh, your friend doing very good. To silence. Oh, shit. Okay. And I was like, hey, just text me when you get to the front gate and then I'll let you in. They pull up. She's like, hey, I'm at the community gate. Got you buzzing you in. Just park at the third water fountain and then I'll go out and meet you. Jay's doing quite fun. And she's like, okay. And she's thinking again, community water fountains. Not like, this is one single house. So it's like, one, two, go. I walk out. Front door's broken on the outside, so I can go back in. So I was like, I'll just walk her through the side museum and explain this. So walk out. I'm like, hey, what's up, Hug? Hey, nice to meet you. Blah, blah, blah. Thanks for coming all the way out here. Front door is broken, so we have to walk into the side of the house. And she's like, okay, in what.

Ian McCollum (131:55)

World is any part of this house.

Eli (131:56)

Broken? She was just like, nervous. I'm like, yeah, 100%. Walk her in. And was like, oh, yeah, this is my side.

Brandon Herrera (132:03)

Museum. You have to fuck around and say like, oh, yeah, sorry, the sultan broke it last.

Eli (132:06)

Week. Yeah. Walk in. And Jay has literal side museum. It is a fucking, like, walking, like glass, samurai armor, everything. So you're walking through and you're like, oh, yeah, fucking duh. Do you need a drink? And she's like, yeah. Like, oh, here, come down here. We walk down the spiral staircase, this giant bear. I was like, here, what do you want? She's like, I ipa walk in, IPA fridge. This is again, like half the size of this room. Walk in, grab that. Haha. So I go, okay, Upstairs, we're doing dinner. Family's waiting. Let's go. Man, you need an elevator in this house. Haha. I was like, oh, we can take that. Here, come here. Walk her to an elevator. Go up five stories, get up to the top. Everyone's waiting, standing. And they're like, where do we sit, Eli? I'm like, oh, wherever you want. Sit down. Private chef French comes, gets all the orders, blah, blah. All said and done. And I remember just first sitting down, everyone is eating, and they're like, eli, when can we start eating? I'm like, oh, yeah, eat away. Everyone's eating. She, like, looks around. She's like, Takes her hat off. She's so uncomfortable at this moment. She's like, we're eating. Hey, why don't you tell me you're rich As. I am so scared right now. So I was like, what are you talking about? This is normal. Half the dinner's done. We're downstairs having a. Just fun. We're playing whatever, like, Pictionary or some stupid. And then we. I tell her, I'm like, hey, by the way, this is not my house. This is actually my friend's. This is a joke. Because she's like, holy Christ. Oh, my God. I was terrified. And then for a second, I was like, did I hit the lottery? I am not.

Brandon Herrera (133:45)

Sure. She's like, oh, in that case. And she throws away the condom wrapper she had poked a million holes.

Ian McCollum (133:51)

In. I don't need your phone number now, actually.

Brandon Herrera (133:59)

Sorry, I never.

Ian McCollum (134:02)

Heard. What was your friend's.

Brandon Herrera (134:03)

Name? I heard the abbreviated version of that story. I've never heard the full one. That's hilarious.

Eli (134:08)

Dude. It was an entire thing. Because Jay has money, he gets bored, and he's like, this is fun. I get to watch this play out. And I'm like, patrick, his chef, we're filling him in. He's like, okay, so what do I say? I was like, what's for dinner? He's like, we have the pea soup, we have elk, and we have that. I was like, just say that. Just do your fucking accent and talk like that. She's gonna be none the wiser. You don't have to act. Are you sure? I'm like, I assure you, no one's used to a private fucking.

Brandon Herrera (134:35)

Chef. This is like lifestyle cuckoldry. I just want to see somebody.

Ian McCollum (134:40)

Else live my life.

Eli (134:43)

Dude. You walk out and you're like, what the fuck is this? What'd we use for the picture? It was me with a baby goat or something. Cause they had baby Goats. They.

Brandon Herrera (134:51)

Had. Dude, you're shitting.

Eli (134:52)

Me. No, no, no, I. Dude, it is again that you have wealth and then you're like, oh, people live like this and this is fun for them. Okay, what the fuck? Yeah, and he has an amazing gun collection. That's why I want to. Of course he.

Ian McCollum (135:09)

Does. There.

Brandon Herrera (135:09)

Yeah. Sounds like a fucking neat.

Ian McCollum (135:11)

Guy. I'll go on this trip if you want. Sign me.

Brandon Herrera (135:14)

Up. Every time I find one of those absurdly wealthy people who's also into guns, I'm like, you're gonna make my collection look.

Donut Operator (135:21)

Bad. Like.

Brandon Herrera (135:23)

I've. I've got a lot of stuff, but like, some of those guys will just get that, like, oh, an original FG.

Ian McCollum (135:27)

42. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (135:28)

Yeah. I mean, it's only a.

Ian McCollum (135:29)

Quarter. I have three of.

Brandon Herrera (135:30)

Those.

Ian McCollum (135:31)

Yeah. To be clear, I don't. But I have run into the guy who has three of.

Brandon Herrera (135:35)

Them. There's a guy who has three of.

Ian McCollum (135:37)

Them. Oh, there's a guy who has like nine of them. Oh my God. Oh.

Eli (135:40)

Yeah. Are they your friends.

Ian McCollum (135:41)

Too? One is one I know of, but haven't actually met in person, I don't think. Or I met him like once, but not really acquainted. But.

Brandon Herrera (135:51)

Yeah. Yeah. I think the last one that went for sale that I know of went for like.

Ian McCollum (135:54)

240,000. You haven't been paying attention. They're three to.

Brandon Herrera (135:59)

Four. Jesus.

Ian McCollum (136:00)

Christ. Yeah. If you look at the collector grade book Death from Above, the back cover art on the inside is just a row of FGS leaning up on a fireplace. There's like 10 of them. That's all one collection.

Brandon Herrera (136:19)

Yeah. I'm really happy with my SMG.

Ian McCollum (136:22)

Clone. So am I. Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (136:24)

Yeah. I'm like, yeah, 10 grand, that's.

Ian McCollum (136:26)

Fine. That's all I need. I had the chance to actually shoot an original second pattern. FG are real. Yeah. By the way, the rumors on them are real. It is a fantastic gun to shoot. It's legit. I'm not going to say it's super. Like it's not a.

Eli (136:44)

5.56.

Ian McCollum (136:45)

Right. But it is as controllable or better as any.308 full auto I've ever.

Brandon Herrera (136:50)

Shot as an 8 millimeter.

Ian McCollum (136:51)

Mauser.

Brandon Herrera (136:51)

Correct. So the Falshmjaeger Gewehr, it was like the German paratrooper, like light machine gun, quote unquote. It's like their Browning automatic.

Ian McCollum (137:00)

Rifle. But the design spec is essentially we want a gun that is neither longer nor heavier than a Mauser 98K, but it has to be select fire, have a bipod, have A bayonet and well and be select.

Eli (137:14)

Fire. Dude just really. You brought up the Mauser. The 98K. Was that 8 mil? What was the that. Who was the guy? Banana. Banana something. He's a YouTuber that does firearms.

Ian McCollum (137:28)

Now. Banana.

Eli (137:30)

Banana. Ballistics. He just had that round that was 8 mil.

Brandon Herrera (137:34)

AP. Or was the K bullets or.

Ian McCollum (137:37)

Whatever.

Donut Operator (137:37)

Okay.

Ian McCollum (137:38)

Or. Yeah, they made, they made armor.

Eli (137:40)

Piercing. This was that round. They're like hey, they built this. It's a hyped up 8 millimeter. But it punched through on his.01 1.25 steel just punched right through that. An inch and like an inch and a half was what stopped it. And it still made that would hole at the.

Ian McCollum (137:57)

Back. That would have to be unhardened this.

Eli (138:01)

Dude. Tungsten round. This is, this was for World War.

Brandon Herrera (138:04)

II. He meant like the steel, like the blade that it was.

Eli (138:07)

Punching. Yeah, that's the thing. This was very, very impressive because the round was going 3,000ft per second. And this is Mauser98. Like he shot the first round. He's like holy fuck. And he says it. He has to actually because he doesn't curse. He's like what? Like he bleeps in his own. Because he looks over and it's.

Brandon Herrera (138:26)

3,000 inch and a half.

Eli (138:28)

Steel.

Donut Operator (138:29)

Yep. Have you.

Ian McCollum (138:31)

Seen. Have you seen the German or the Polish armor piercing 8 Mauser. Their anti tank rifle or sorry, not 8 Mauser 8 millimeter. It's 8 by 108. It's like a trader.

Brandon Herrera (138:47)

Okay. Welcome back to the.

Eli (138:50)

Banana. So he goes an inch and.

Brandon Herrera (138:53)

A half is a lot of.

Ian McCollum (138:54)

Steel. That's a lot of.

Eli (138:54)

Hard. Trust.

Ian McCollum (138:56)

Me. That went through holy mild.

Brandon Herrera (139:07)

Steel. There it.

Eli (139:10)

Was. There he goes to. He missed. And he goes to one and a half. So it is one and a half of I'm guessing.

Ian McCollum (139:16)

Mild. There is a very big difference between mild steel and hardened.

Brandon Herrera (139:20)

Steel. Very much.

Eli (139:21)

So. Everyone is cooking for a 1940.

Ian McCollum (139:23)

Round. Don't don't get me.

Brandon Herrera (139:24)

Wrong. Like it's still impressive but it's very. But there is a massive difference between hardened and you know.

Eli (139:30)

That. Okay, yeah, that one. I just remember that video was like oh, it's punching through a inch. Like no problem. And this is from the 1940s. That round is.

Ian McCollum (139:38)

Cooking. It's interesting. There are some powder formulations that survive just fine and there's some powder formulations that degrade over time. Turkish stuff. And I can't remember the chemical differences but we got a bunch of Turkish 8 millimeter years ago that was dangerous because the Powder degraded, and it actually. The powder grains degraded, and you ended up with a lot more surface area than you originally had. And so the powder burned a lot faster than it was originally intended to. And you got really high pressure, and it blew up guns. Like, I know a guy who's missing fingers from one of those things in a.42 or.

Brandon Herrera (140:18)

A.34. One of the things that was speculated about on the slap rounds on.

Ian McCollum (140:22)

Kentucky. Yeah, yeah. But then there are also some powders that survive just fine and don't degrade. And a lot of the German World War II stuff, the powder formulation is such that, yes, it's 80 years old now, but it performs just the same way that it originally did. Some of the most stable stuff.

Brandon Herrera (140:40)

I've ever seen is the 8 millimeter Mauser stuff coming out of.

Ian McCollum (140:42)

Ethiopia. Everything I ever tested from Ethiopia was.

Brandon Herrera (140:46)

Garbage. That's what I was joking.

Ian McCollum (140:47)

About.

Brandon Herrera (140:48)

Yeah. It's fucking.

Ian McCollum (140:48)

Dog. Okay. Thank.

Brandon Herrera (140:49)

You. I'm like a little dog.

Eli (140:50)

Shit. I was like, are.

Ian McCollum (140:52)

We. Are we looking at different ammo? Like, that's. I do. You, like, didn't work with Century for, like, four years because of that.

Brandon Herrera (140:58)

Ammo. It was like, if you wanted catastrophic malfunctions or hang fires, it was the greatest shit to.

Ian McCollum (141:03)

Use. I broke a Mauser 98K stock with one of those things. I get some of the.

Eli (141:07)

Ammo. Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (141:08)

Yeah. It's all the shit that's just being pulled out of pallets in Ethiopia.

Ian McCollum (141:11)

Somewhere.

Eli (141:12)

Yeah. It's crazy how different areas, it's like, hey, this can kill you. Versus, hey, this is stable and you're good to.

Ian McCollum (141:19)

Go. The really good ammo is The Greek stuff. HXP 303, 308. The Greek HXP stuff is.

Eli (141:26)

Phenomenal. I mean, look at the tech as it evolves. I love nitroglycerin and them taking a cross the ocean, they're like, we just put in a bunch of springs. As long as it's not too bad, we will make it there. Cody, have you ever seen how they did nitroglycerin back in the.

Ian McCollum (141:42)

Past?

Donut Operator (141:43)

No. When they were transporting.

Ian McCollum (141:44)

It? Yep. No.

Eli (141:45)

What? Nitroglycerin. You're like, you shake that.

Ian McCollum (141:47)

Shit. Yeah. Why would you transport it? Why wouldn't you just make it wherever you're trying to take the springs around it.

Eli (141:52)

Back? Wait, you haven't even seen.

Ian McCollum (141:54)

This?

Brandon Herrera (141:54)

No. It's kind of like nitroglycerin back in the day was kind of like tannerite, except if you sneezed, you would.

Ian McCollum (142:00)

Die. Yeah. Yeah. Except it's Not a two.

Donut Operator (142:02)

Part. It's just your own waves just smacking the boat.

Eli (142:06)

Dude. They would put full. Wait, let me find the spring system. It would be contained in spring systems in order to okay to ship it. Shipping shipment. Shipment on.

Ian McCollum (142:20)

Ships. You have an RK95.

Brandon Herrera (142:22)

Yet? No, but I will tell you what, that is probably one of the most recommended guns. I.

Ian McCollum (142:27)

Do. I'll have.

Brandon Herrera (142:28)

One. Here's the.

Ian McCollum (142:29)

Thing. Must have.

Brandon Herrera (142:30)

One. I could buy one. That's not really the problem. The. The problem is like, I've seen them come up is what I.

Ian McCollum (142:35)

Mean. Really? I've never seen one in the US. Really? A.

Brandon Herrera (142:39)

95? Yeah, maybe. Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm talking about my ass.

Ian McCollum (142:43)

Here. The late, late, late pattern Valmet with grenade launcher, gas cut off optics.

Brandon Herrera (142:49)

Mount. So forgive me if I'm misattributing that to something else, but like I've seen. Because the fins are very autistic about this stuff. I just know if I do a video on that or any sort of Valmet or any sort of finish AK of any kind, no one will watch it. That's what I'm worried.

Ian McCollum (143:06)

About. Why? Why wouldn't.

Brandon Herrera (143:07)

They? Because every time. So this is the.

Donut Operator (143:10)

Curse. I.

Brandon Herrera (143:10)

Have. Anything that I think is cool will never get.

Ian McCollum (143:13)

Views. I mean, you. You can use the word tube with two O's. Yeah, for Valmet. That'll get people.

Brandon Herrera (143:20)

One.

Ian McCollum (143:21)

Yeah. YouTube stock, aka that's what I did with the.

Brandon Herrera (143:23)

Sten. And nobody fucking watched.

Ian McCollum (143:24)

It. Okay, well.

Brandon Herrera (143:26)

Shit.

Ian McCollum (143:27)

I.

Brandon Herrera (143:28)

It's. It's just. It's like the. If I shit out a video, that's like very little effort, million and a half views. If I pour my heart and soul into something that I think is a very niche piece of history that I love. And I'm like super excited. And I think the video went really well. And I watched the video back. I'm like, this is. I'm proud of that 500,000. Like, fuck.

Ian McCollum (143:47)

Me. So I would like to respond on two different fronts. First off, when 500,000 is a failure, you do more than I do. You do more videos than I.

Eli (143:58)

Do. God damn.

Ian McCollum (143:59)

It. But I understand. I've had some videos that I did kind of as an afterthought. Like, yeah, it's 3pm and I have dinner at 5. But I just got an idea. I can knock that out and had them go. Very successful, at least for my standards. And. And then, yeah, sometimes this. I can usually predict the ones that won't do well. And I do a lot of them because there are videos that like this needs to be done. I know none of you people are going to watch it, but it needs to be covered because someday someone will need to know this stuff and they'll Google it and there it'll.

Brandon Herrera (144:33)

Be. But also your upload schedule determines your views quite a lot. Like to quote my fertility specialist, I'm quite impressed by your volume. Like you actually put out a lot of videos per.

Ian McCollum (144:44)

Week. Like that's, that's what made the channel successful like for a couple of years. It was six a week.

Brandon Herrera (144:49)

Yeah. That's fucking insane shit on all like autistic different fucking breakdowns of guns that I've usually never heard.

Ian McCollum (144:57)

Of. That's why I have a big library to make it possible. But yeah, that's crazy. That's what was. Let me grew the grow the channel. That's how it got successful. And large was just insane amount of.

Eli (145:10)

Material. How is it actually really quick before we close this out, how is it when you have to break apart one of these weapons you're not sure on like a G11, is that terrifying out the gate? Because that would.

Ian McCollum (145:21)

Be. Not.

Brandon Herrera (145:21)

Anymore. I have a follow up to. Have you ever broken one on accident or broken a piece while tearing something.

Ian McCollum (145:27)

Apart? I can neither confirm nor.

Eli (145:29)

Deny. Here's this one of one. Have fun. You're like, I've watched zero you.

Brandon Herrera (145:36)

YouTube videos on this strips screw.

Ian McCollum (145:38)

Immediately. Yeah. So no, I've gotten. I'm. I'm paranoid about things like taking out screws. Yeah. And when they're too tight, I just stop. And you'll see it on some videos where I'm like. If I say something like this one's not really wanting to come apart, it means I went in with the screwdriver and. And it got to the point where I'm like, it might open but. Or I might snap the head of the screw off. And I just, I nope, I'm.

Brandon Herrera (146:05)

Done. I have a 1940s Colt at the shop. You'll see it tomorrow. It's like the oldest gun I think that's in the shop. That is all original except for one screw. And that's what.

Ian McCollum (146:18)

Happened. Yeah.

Brandon Herrera (146:19)

Yeah. And you feel like a piece of shit because you're like, this is an original. This is a piece of history and I have defiled.

Ian McCollum (146:25)

It. Yeah. Frankly, what I've learned is guns break when you force them. You never force it. If you have to force it, you stop. If you have to force it for disassembly, you stop. If you have to force it for reassembly you're not doing it right. Stop, go back, reassess, and figure out the way that you do it without having to force anything. And that's allowed me to do what I do without anything.

Brandon Herrera (146:53)

Breaking. I'm impressed because you handle a lot of shit that's pretty fucking old. And a lot of this stuff, you know, old guns, like, if you don't use it, you lose it. Like, that stuff doesn't want to.

Ian McCollum (147:03)

Move. When it came to shooting, like the Morphy company does a lot of machine guns. And until YouTube started age restricting everything, we did a lot of machine gun shooting with them. And their NFA guy, a guy named John Keane, is really good. And we would assess guns based on, like, what's the risk of anything breaking in this? And also what's the availability of spare parts? Because with machine guns in particular, no one really cares if every pin is original. Yeah. And so when there was stuff that was rare but parts were around, we'd shoot it. Like, frankly, the one that terrified me the Most was that FG42. Yeah, like, I. If I owned it, I would never shoot an FG42 I own. In fact, I wouldn't own an original FG42. I would resell that thing. Like, I'd rather have a house than that FG42. But it was on their company insurance policy, and the consigner was cool with us shooting it because he knew it would make it more desirable at auction. And actually. Okay, so here's the funny behind the scenes thing. We had Portuguese surplus ammo for shooting that. Like, we didn't go out and buy brand new 8 mil. No, we had Portuguese surplus. It's pretty good. It'll be fine in an RG42. It was hard primered. If you watch the video, I start off the video and I'm like, all right, semi auto. No one wants to see semi auto. We're going to full auto. The reality is in semi auto, it wouldn't run. So the FG42 has this system where it fires from a closed bolt in semi and an open bolt in full auto, so that in full auto, you get better cooling. But in semi auto, you don't have the bolt chunking closed when you pull the trigger. So you get more accuracy in.

Brandon Herrera (148:48)

Semi, which is weird because even in the semi auto, it seems like it's.

Ian McCollum (148:51)

Semi open bolt a little bit because the firing pin and the op rod are both moving.

Brandon Herrera (148:55)

Forward. Right. On the semi auto clones, you feel the bolt move forward and you're.

Ian McCollum (149:00)

Like, no, that's how it works. But what it. The upshot is in full auto, because the whole. The firing pin is moving from a much greater distance. It's got a lot more energy in it than in semi auto. And this thing would run about half the time in semi. You know, bang, bang, click, rack, click, rack, bang, click, rack. But. And at that point, I'm like, this is my only chance to ever shoot this thing. Like we're out here on the.

Eli (149:24)

Range. Brass casing too, versus.

Ian McCollum (149:26)

Steel. It was brass. It was brass.

Brandon Herrera (149:28)

Case. Yeah, but it's.

Eli (149:29)

Made. What was it steel or. Okay, well, I wasn't.

Ian McCollum (149:32)

Sure. Germany went to steel case at the end of the.

Eli (149:34)

War. Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if that was a tolerance.

Brandon Herrera (149:37)

Issue. The problem is, is the primer. Like, if the primers are hard, then if you don't have a. A crazy amount of force behind the firing pin, you're.

Ian McCollum (149:43)

Gotcha. So, like, what I really don't want to do is have to call off my one opportunity to film a full auto original FG42. So I'm like, well, let's try it full auto and see if it works. And it ran great. Ran perfectly in full auto because the bolts moving four inches more, it's got a lot more mass, a lot more velocity to it. So it worked in full auto. So that's how we filmed it. I was like, I'm just going to glaze over semi auto and go straight to.

Brandon Herrera (150:09)

Full. That's exactly what we did in my Sten video. Because the Sten that I had acquired, we figured out. So it was running like shit. It ran like absolute fucking glazed dog shit. Unless it was. We took out the semi auto components and then suddenly it ran.

Ian McCollum (150:26)

Fine. Weird.

Brandon Herrera (150:27)

Okay. Couldn't fucking tell you why, but it just. It worked out that way. So we're like, you know what? Fuck it. Nobody actually cares about a semi auto stent.

Ian McCollum (150:34)

Anyway. It's really weird to me that they bothered to put a semi auto in the.

Eli (150:37)

Sten. It's like a condom. Got sucks when you use it.

Brandon Herrera (150:42)

But when you rip it off, it's great. You're.

Ian McCollum (150:45)

Fine.

Eli (150:46)

Exactly. See, it makes.

Brandon Herrera (150:49)

Sense. Machine Guns by.

Eli (150:51)

Eli. Get rid of that thing. Fucking fun times.

Ian McCollum (150:55)

Happen. Design brief on the Sten isn't really compatible with. Why would we have extra parts make it semi.

Brandon Herrera (151:01)

Auto. One of the least ergonomic terrible sights. Open bolt submachine.

Ian McCollum (151:07)

Gun.

Brandon Herrera (151:07)

Yeah. Let's get some precision shooting out of this.

Ian McCollum (151:09)

9Mm. Yeah, but you know, they work usually. Like, again, was it an Original C and R gun or was it some sort of rebuild?

Brandon Herrera (151:17)

Rewel. Yeah, rebuild. So that. Yeah, you always got to throw.

Ian McCollum (151:22)

That out there for people looking for machine guns. That's one of the values of an original C and R gun is it has not been cut apart and re welded by.

Brandon Herrera (151:31)

Bubba. Yep. Oh, I just picked up a CNR MG 08.

Ian McCollum (151:35)

15. Oh.

Brandon Herrera (151:36)

Cool. I'm excited by.

Eli (151:37)

That. Love that one. That's one of my favorite.

Brandon Herrera (151:39)

Nomenclatures. It's one of my favorite.

Ian McCollum (151:41)

Genders. So every. Everyone in the comments will now inform you that 0815 actually in German means boring or commonplace. So was it noodle akt.

Brandon Herrera (151:54)

Fun? That's what I learned afterward is that that's like the 104 of Germany. It's just like things are.

Ian McCollum (151:59)

Fine. Things are. Oh yeah. And it's because they were so.

Brandon Herrera (152:03)

Commonplace in which I had no clue. But that's.

Donut Operator (152:06)

Very. It's very.

Brandon Herrera (152:07)

Cool. Little stuff like that I think is.

Ian McCollum (152:08)

Neat. Yeah, I just saved you from that showing up in the.

Brandon Herrera (152:10)

Comments. No, they'll still do.

Eli (152:12)

It. This episode is. Cody and Eli stare at each other.

Brandon Herrera (152:18)

Awkwardly. This is how it.

Ian McCollum (152:20)

Feels. Look, I feel like you should have known that was coming when you invited me.

Eli (152:24)

Here. I was ready for it. I learned a lot, so I'm extremely happy with.

Ian McCollum (152:29)

This. Don't get me started on chassepot.

Eli (152:31)

Variations. That's what the Patreon after show is gonna be about. Excellent, Cody. On that note. Well, first off, Ian, where do we find you, you beautiful son of a.

Ian McCollum (152:41)

Bitch? Forgottenweapons.com or YouTube forgottenweapons or Patreon forgottenweapons or Pepperbox Kickstarter? The book I'm working on. Well, the book I am currently pre selling is Forged in Snow. Finnish Small Arms 1918-2025. Covering the Mosins, the valmets, the lens lugers, the latties, the light machine guns. All sorts of super cool stuff. Currently on Kickstarter. Lots of cool stretch goals, lots of neat options. Check it.

Brandon Herrera (153:11)

Out. You're gonna get a kick out of my lottie tomorrow.

Ian McCollum (153:13)

Too.

Brandon Herrera (153:14)

Excellent. I got something to show you on that. It's pretty.

Eli (153:16)

Fun. All right, gang.

Donut Operator (153:17)

Does. Bye everyone. Thanks for coming to the unsubscribed podcast. I was joined today by Eli Double Tap Ian from Forgotten Weapons. Brandon Herrera, myself, donut operator. Please join us for the Patreon after.

Ian McCollum (153:30)

Show. You checked out hours ago, didn't.

Donut Operator (153:32)

You? Me and Eli were over here just like doing rock paper.

Eli (153:36)

Scissors. Dude, it was.

Brandon Herrera (153:37)

Great. We love you all. Join us for the after show where we find out if Ian finally got his hands on some 32 French.

Eli (153:44)

Long. Aren't you.

Donut Operator (153:46)

Excited? I got my hands on some.

Eli (153:47)

Long. Same.

Brandon Herrera (153:49)

Right.

Ian McCollum (153:50)

Bye.

Eli (154:06)

You. Monster Energy. Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the og it kicked off this whole Zero Sugar energy drink thing. But Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise and Vice Guava. And they all bring the Monster Energy.

Ian McCollum (154:43)

Punch. So if you've been living in.

Eli (154:45)

The White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe, and every single one is Zero Sugar. Tap the banner to learn more.