Unsung History: “Slavery and the Complicated Legacy of George Washington”
Host: Kelly Therese Pollock
Guest: Dr. John Garrison Marks
Date: February 22, 2026
Overview
This episode of Unsung History delves into the tangled history of George Washington as both a Founding Father and a slaveholder. Host Kelly Therese Pollock interviews Dr. John Garrison Marks, author of Thy Will Be: George Washington's Legacy of Slavery and the Fight for American Memory, about Washington’s contradictory relationship with slavery, the ways Americans have remembered and mythologized him over the past two centuries, and how these debates continue into the present day—especially with the United States approaching its 250th anniversary.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. George Washington’s Personal History with Slavery
- Washington’s Inheritance & Life as an Enslaver
- Inherited enslaved people as a child and actively acquired more throughout his life.
- Marriage to Martha Custis made him responsible for even more enslaved people ("dower slaves").
- Not a passive enslaver—organized punishments, sometimes personally enforced them, and sold individuals to particularly brutal conditions if necessary.
- When serving as President in Philadelphia, took steps to circumvent Pennsylvania laws enabling enslaved people to obtain freedom after six months of residence.
- Contradiction and Private Writings
- Expressed private discomfort about slavery, wishing for gradual abolition and not wanting to separate families, yet maintained and benefited from slavery.
- Example: Efforts to recover Ona Judge after her escape, refusing to emancipate her even though he professed support for eventual abolition.
"He held utterly irreconcilable views and he never really tried to publicly reconcile them in any real way."
— Dr. John Garrison Marks [18:19]
- Emancipation in His Will
- At Washington's death in 1799, his will emancipated the 123 enslaved people he owned outright, but could not free dower slaves.
- Immediate freedom granted to valet William Lee; others freed after Martha’s death, though this resulted in splitting families.
2. Washington as National Symbol—and Tool for Competing Ideologies
- Construction of the Mythical George Washington
- Within weeks of his death, a flurry of biographies established him as an almost legendary figure—“an avatar for the United States,” as Dr. Marks puts it.
- Both sides of the abolitionist vs. pro-slavery debate cited aspects of Washington’s life to press their case.
- Use by Both Abolitionists and Pro-Slavery Forces
- Abolitionists used his emancipation of some enslaved people as evidence that ending slavery was fundamentally American.
- Others, including radical abolitionists, denounced his hypocrisy and symbolized the nation’s flaws.
- Pro-slavery advocates lauded his lifetime as an enslaver to defend the institution and justify secession.
"Washington functions not as a human being or even really as a historical figure. He becomes this avatar for the United States…anyone in this debate is able to find a piece of Washington that they can then shape into something useful for their position."
— Dr. John Garrison Marks [24:25]
- The Civil War and Beyond
- Jefferson Davis’s Confederate inauguration invoked Washington’s name and birthday as a legitimizing symbol for the Confederacy’s cause.
- 20th Century Mythmaking
- For the 1932 bicentennial, the focus was on near-deification—“demigoded”—with a conspicuous lack of mention of slavery in celebrations, educational material, and public discourse.
- Black scholars like Carter G. Woodson and W.E.B. Du Bois pushed for greater acknowledgment of Washington’s slavery legacy, with more traction post-bicentennial.
3. Public Memory and the Fight Over History
- A Consistent, Enduring Debate
- The struggle to confront or ignore Washington’s relationship to slavery has recurred for 250 years.
- Recurrent cycle: Calls to “finally” reckon with this history; opposition claiming Washington is above reproach.
- Contemporary Curricula and Public Debate
- Recent efforts to remove or downplay slavery’s role in exhibits (e.g., President’s House in Philadelphia) have been met with widespread public disapproval.
- Surveys show most Americans want a more complete and complex history—“the good things and the bad things.”
"Most people, it’s always, you know, between 60 and 70%...say, I want to learn about all of it…I want to be asked to grapple with complexity."
— Dr. John Garrison Marks [34:32]
4. Historical Sources and Research Approaches
- Abundance and Absence in the Records
- For the formerly enslaved: patchwork of census, city directories, little documentation.
- For Washington: an overabundance of sources—letters, biographies, government records, and press coverage.
- Each historical era requires different research strategies; e.g., 20th-century commissions and textbooks for recent history.
5. Future of History and Memorialization (U.S. 250th Birthday)
- Challenges and Opportunities in Commemoration
- Federal efforts skew toward spectacle (e.g., UFC fights, racing), leaving many historians disappointed by lack of substantive programming.
- However, “there’s so much work that’s happening” at the state/local/museum level—new renovations, exhibitions, and public programs.
- Civic participation by people who care about history is crucial to shaping the anniversary’s meaning.
“If all of us who care about history...throw up our hands and say, 'Well, see...this was going to be bad,' then it’s going to be bad.”
— Dr. John Garrison Marks [42:40]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “Washington functions not as a human being...he becomes this avatar for the United States.” [24:25]
- “None of these people...are actually interested in understanding the history...it’s always about what version of Washington is going to be most useful to me.” [27:56]
- “They credit George Washington with inventing ice cream, and they don’t acknowledge his involvement in the institution of slavery.” [31:56]
- “Most people...say, I want to learn about all of it.” [34:32]
- “The president doesn’t get to tell us what America means or how we should commemorate our history...That decision is being made in communities all over the country.” [41:32]
- “If we all...say...this was going to be bad, then it’s going to be bad.” [42:40]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [00:00-10:10]: Host introduction; overview of Washington’s life as an enslaver; will and emancipation
- [10:26]: Start of Dr. John Garrison Marks interview
- [12:39]: Discussing research sources and challenges
- [17:31]: Washington’s private/public contradictions about slavery
- [24:25]: How Washington's legacy gets used by all sides in American debates
- [29:34]: The 1932 bicentennial and mythmaking about Washington
- [33:57]: Current public debates over teaching and commemorating Washington’s legacy
- [38:16]: The 250th anniversary—how to commemorate and reckon with the past
- [41:32]: Civic engagement and the importance of grassroots history work
Tone & Final Reflections
The episode combines accessible narrative with scholarly insight. Both host and guest emphasize the need for nuance: Washington’s story cannot be reduced to a simple tale of condemnation or redemption, and American memory is shaped through ongoing, often contentious conversation. Dr. Marks’ message is hopeful—while the nation’s big spectacles may sidestep tough questions, a vibrant, grassroots historical culture offers many avenues for honest, meaningful commemoration of America’s complicated past.
“There’s maybe a different, more productive conversation that we could be having. And there’s, I think, better time to do it than in our 250th anniversary year.”
— Dr. John Garrison Marks [44:22]