Ashley Loring Heavyrunner - Episode 1 (Revisited)

Summary

Up and Vanished: Ashley Loring HeavyRunner - Episode 1 (Revisited) Release Date: March 28, 2025

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Introduction

In the riveting first episode of Season 4, "Midnight Sun," Up and Vanished delves deep into the mysterious disappearance of Ashley Loring HeavyRunner from the Blackfeet Nation Indian Reservation in Northwest Montana. Hosted by Payne Lindsay of Tenderfoot TV, the episode revisits the case, uncovering new insights and reigniting the search for answers where law enforcement efforts have faltered.

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The Disappearance of Ashley Loring HeavyRunner

Payne Lindsay opens the episode by highlighting the critical moments leading up to Ashley's disappearance in June 2017. Kimberly Loring, Ashley's sister, shares the harrowing timeline:

• Last Contact: "Me her last Facebook messages with Ashley. Kimberly said, are you okay? Ashley replied, always." [14:41]

Despite regular communication, Ashley vanished without a trace upon Kimberly's return from a trip to Morocco.

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Community Concerns and Lack of Safety

Kerry Lance (White Buffalo Bisha Tie), an elder from the community, paints a grim picture of life on the reservation:

• "This place isn't safe, especially for Native women." [04:33]

He describes the pervasive fear and the community's initiative to form a neighborhood watch due to increasing violence and arson incidents:

• "We've had four buildings torched in the last two weeks. And one's still smoking." [05:10]

Lance emphasizes the community's frustration with law enforcement's reactive stance:

• "They're reactionary only. So right now, we don't have enough law enforcement to proactively patrol." [05:39]

The sentiment reflects a broader issue of systemic neglect and the heightened vulnerability of Native women.

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Investigative Challenges and Community Dynamics

The episode sheds light on the complexities of investigating crimes within the reservation:

• Nepotism and Tribal Courts: Lance criticizes the tribal justice system's inefficacy due to favoritism and lack of accountability:

  • "When shit happens out here, they don't put any effort into solving it. Holding anybody accountable." [18:03]

• Community Retaliation: The fear of retaliation discourages victims and their families from cooperating with law enforcement:

  • "Cops come out here and say, we need a statement. I don't want to do that... Because they're afraid of retaliation." [05:51]

This environment fosters secrecy and impedes the pursuit of justice.

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Theories and Suspects

Payne Lindsay explores various theories surrounding Ashley's disappearance, focusing on potential suspects and motives:

• Vdog Paul Valenzuela: A central figure, Valenzuela, known by his nickname "Vdog," emerges as a key suspect. His aggressive confrontation with Lindsay is highlighted:

  • "I'm just a podcaster... I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody." [39:36]

  However, tensions escalate as Valenzuela vehemently denies involvement, leading to heated exchanges captured in the transcript.

• Matson Boys Connection: References to the Matson boys, previously involved in shooting incidents with Ashley, suggest a possible link to her disappearance once they were released from prison:

  • "They said it was the Madsen boys. Ashley, she had to go to court one time... and then Ashley vanished." [34:51]

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Personal Accounts and Emotional Impact

Kimberly Loring's unwavering determination and emotional turmoil are central to the narrative:

• Dreams as Clues: Kimberly recounts vivid dreams where Ashley guides her to a lake, believing these visions are pivotal clues:

  • "I believe that this lake is a clue. And honestly, so do I." [31:04]

• Generational Trauma: Kimberly discusses the deep-seated trauma within the community, stemming from historical abuses and its impact on current safety and secrecy:

  • "Secrets run deep, and we pass it on, generations to generation." [24:22]

• Fear for the Future: The pervasive fear for her son's safety underscores the ongoing crisis:

  • "I have a four-year-old. Every day I wake up scared for my son." [24:18]

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Recent Developments and Renewed Investigation

The episode concludes with updates on the investigation and the podcast's role in reigniting public interest:

• Law Enforcement Response: Law enforcement actions have been minimal, with delayed declarations of missing persons hindering the investigation:

  • "By the time police officially declared Ashley missing, it had been weeks. Crucial time was lost." [20:43]

• Tip Line and Community Support: Following the podcast's efforts, numerous credible tips have been received, indicating a growing community involvement:

  • "We've received dozens of credible tips on our tip line." [40:52]

• Ongoing Search Efforts: Despite facing threats and misinformation, the search for Ashley continues, driven by Lindsay's determination and Kimberly's resolve.

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Conclusion and Future Directions

Up and Vanished emphasizes the urgent need for continued investigation and community support to solve Ashley Loring HeavyRunner's disappearance. The episode sets the stage for future installments, promising to unravel new information and bring the community closer to uncovering the truth.

Notable Quotes:

• "I want to see the rule of law and everybody treated fairly and held accountable." — Kerry Lance [05:08]
• "Just another dead Indian." — Kerry Lance [20:47]
• "I want to find out what happened to Ashley. And I'm going to do everything within the law and my own conscience to make that happen." — Payne Lindsay [31:56]

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Join the Search for Answers

For those compelled by Ashley's story and eager to contribute, Up and Vanished encourages listeners to stay engaged and support the ongoing investigation. As the podcast promises deeper dives and fresh revelations in upcoming episodes, the quest for justice remains steadfast.

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This summary is intended for informational purposes and reflects the content of "Ashley Loring HeavyRunner - Episode 1 (Revisited)" from the Up and Vanished podcast series.

Transcript

[Narrator]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

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[Payne Lindsay]

Hey it's Payne. I want to thank everyone for being a listener of this show and I know a lot of you have been here since the very beginning and for a very long time we've had no merch or anything for you to show off that this might be your favorite podcast if it is. But now we do. If you go to Shop Tinderfoot tv we have some brand new up and vanish podcast T shirts that you can wear wherever you are in the world and show your support. And right now we're offering 20% off of every order. Just go to shop.tinderfoot TV and then use the promo code PAYNE20. That's P A Y N E20 at checkout and get 20% off your entire order. Again, that's Shop Tenderfoot TV code PAIN 20 20% off. Thank you again for supporting this show. We love you guys. For ad, free listening and exclusive bonuses.

[Advertiser]

Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or.

[Narrator]

On Apple Podcasts up and Vanished in.

[Advertiser]

The Midnight sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting such as emotional, physical men and sexual violence, rape and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show.

[Narrator]

Is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey.

[Payne Lindsay]

Thank you so much for listening. From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. This is up and Vanished. I'm your host, Payne Lindsay. There's a place in Montana where the silence doesn't feel peaceful. It feels like it's hiding something. Out here on the Blackfeet Reservation, you'll find cracks in the earth that go so deep you can't see the bottom. Places you could lose someone forever.

[Kerry Lance]

There's so many places out here and so many back roads. And there's holes in the ground. Cracks that can't even see the bottom. Where you could drop somebody's body in there. You could hide a body across this creek. And nobody'd find it. Unless the wind blew, right? My Crow name is White Buffalo. Bisha tie. White Buffalo. So you have your Christian name. And then you have your human name, your tribal name.

[Payne Lindsay]

I met Kerry Lance, an elder in this community.

[Kerry Lance]

Actually, I'm short. I gotta move it up.

[Payne Lindsay]

He's been here his whole life. And he told me straight up, this place isn't safe, especially for Native women.

[Kerry Lance]

As a result of the murders up here, we started a neighborhood watch. We'd spend four or six hours a night out here. Riding around, looking for stuff that somebody would think was suspicious.

[Payne Lindsay]

He's not doing that because he wants to. He's doing that because nobody else will.

[Kerry Lance]

This is my home. I grew up here. This is where I grew up, where I was raised. This is my home.

[Payne Lindsay]

So this is a reservation right here.

[Kerry Lance]

You've been on a reservation since the top of that hill over there. That's the res line. We've had four buildings torched in the last two weeks. And one's still smoking.

[Payne Lindsay]

Torched as in arson.

[Kerry Lance]

Somebody lit it up. This place was torched just a couple nights ago?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Kerry Lance]

That's the latest fire.

[Payne Lindsay]

Is this a common thing out here?

[Kerry Lance]

Fuck, yeah. And it's gradually getting worse.

[Payne Lindsay]

Not only are Native women disappearing, but law enforcement is doing basically nothing at all about it.

[Kerry Lance]

You didn't see any cops? You probably won't see any cops. They're reactionary only. So right now, we don't have enough law enforcement. To where they can proactively patrol. And try to deter the activity and the behavior that leads up to somebody going missing. I'm not an expert in this shit, you know, it's just when somebody's family says, hey, Kerry, we want to go look around at this area. I'll See if I can get some gas money. And we'll go do it. And we go do it, because nobody's doing it. We're looking for not just one person. We might find somebody else's remains out here. I want to see the rule of law and everybody treated fairly and held accountable. Doesn't matter what the color of your skin is. I want to see the content of your character. The color of your heart is where it's at.

[Narrator]

Ashley Loring, who also goes by Ashley Heavy Runner, was last seen in Browning in June.

[Payne Lindsay]

Ashley Loring, Heavy Runner, went missing in June 2017. Her story should have shaken the entire country. Instead, it barely made a sound.

[Narrator]

The Bureau of Indian affairs is now offering a $5,000 reward for information into Ashley's disappearance.

[Payne Lindsay]

But for Kimberly Loring, Ashley's sister, the noise never stopped.

[Narrator]

I had to make it in my head it was not my sister and that I was searching for a girl named Ashley. Train it in my head that I'm helping this girl, girl named Ashley, because every time that I knew it was my baby sister, I could not move. If Ashley is meant to be found, then there ain't anything in the world that's ever going to stop that. It will happen. The real justice is just finding her. Hello.

[Payne Lindsay]

How are you? I'm good.

[Kerry Lance]

How you doing?

[Payne Lindsay]

This is Mike.

[Kimberly Loring]

Hello.

[Payne Lindsay]

Hello. This is Kimberly Loring, Heavy Runner. Her sister Ashley went missing in June of 2017. For the last four years, Kimberly has been searching for answers to Ashley's bizarre disappearance.

[Narrator]

When she would laugh, she would laugh with her mouth open, and she had these beautiful straight teeth, and she would have this laugh that was like a hyena laugh. And we all laughed the same, but she had the most beautiful smile. She was a very caring person. Just had this big heart for everything.

[Kimberly Loring]

Ashley.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is one of the many marches Kimberly has held for Ashley since she went missing in June of 2017.

[Narrator]

So in March of 2017, I got a call from Ashley, and she wanted to come and stay with me, but I told her, I'm gonna go on a trip for three months and if she can please wait for me, and that I really want to go to Morocco and see my husband. I'm married now, but before then, it's. He was my fiance. I wanted to go see my fiance. And she said, yes, of course. She said, go. She said, go, but you're gonna be back. And I said, of course I'm gonna be back, sis.

[Payne Lindsay]

Kimberly and her sister Ashley lived in Browning, Montana, on the Blackfeet Indian reservation. Just about 40 miles from the Canadian border, Kimberly got engaged in 2017 to her now husband and she went on a trip to Morocco while Ashley stayed behind with the rest of her family. They kept in touch throughout the whole time. Phone calls, texts, Facebook messenger and nothing at all seemed out of the ordinary. After around three months, Kimberly came back to Browning.

[Narrator]

I landed on June 8th at 10:25pm and she never called. She didn't call. And then the next day I saw on my phone it said last active 18 hours ago. I don't know what happened to her. But she waited until I got here and then when I got back there was no phone call, there was no text and we couldn't find her.

[Payne Lindsay]

Kimberly had been out of the country for three months. She landed back home on June 8th at 10:25pm Ashley never called, she never texted. Everything seemed normal until it wasn't.

[Narrator]

I was very numb. I didn't know how to take it, I didn't know how. All I knew was to search for her. Just go look for her, go search for her, just go find her. Everywhere I went, I seen Ashley. She was everywhere. To me, any girl that would walk by, it was Ashley. And to me it literally looked like her. I would look at somebody and it would just be Ashley. And then when I would stop and look again, that girl wouldn't even look like her. I seen her everywhere.

[Payne Lindsay]

But it wasn't long before some twisted rumors began emerging. The timeline leading up to Ashley's disappearance is pretty murky. But I've tried my best to recreate her last steps. There were a few significant events that occurred right around the time she disappeared. Before Kimberly made it back home to Browning, Montana, Ashley stopped by her parents house and had a strange encounter with her father.

[Narrator]

She ran into the house, closed all his blinds and she was very upset, very upset. She said, I did something, I did something. He was like, like, what did you do? What did you do? Like, why are you acting like this? But she wouldn't say anything and she just ran over to the blinds and she was just panicking but she would never tell him what she did. And then when the car pulled up, he went to go look out who was outside and she yelled at him and said not to look out, don't look outside. She got mad at him and so he didn't look. And then she took off. She left and then she never came back.

[Payne Lindsay]

The last confirmed sighting of Ashley is murky, but there's this haunting story her father told Ashley ran into his house, shut all the blinds and said I did something. A car pulled up outside and she begged her dad not to look. Then she was gone.

[Narrator]

That's the last time that my family seen her.

[Payne Lindsay]

From there, the events become a little more convoluted.

[Narrator]

We were told that she went to a friend's and that she might have lost her cell phone. We went searching for her up in the mountains alongside the road. But then it was a week later and we still weren't able to find her. And that's when all these really awful stories all popped up.

[Payne Lindsay]

There were rumors. A video on Facebook. Ashley seen at a house party on June 5.

[Narrator]

We were told that she was at this house and there was this video on Facebook. It was a party. She was sitting at a party. She was sitting there on a couch and that was the last thing that they seen her.

[Payne Lindsay]

Do you know who had posted that video?

[Narrator]

Yeah, his name was Mario. He posted it. It's gone.

[Payne Lindsay]

Where did it go?

[Narrator]

They took it off.

[Kerry Lance]

Why'd you delete it?

[Narrator]

Because everybody just all over Facebook at that time, you know, everybody was like asking about Ashley was at and the.

[Payne Lindsay]

Person who posted it, a guy named Mario. But when people started asking questions, he took it down. Why?

[Narrator]

All the stories said that we saw her at the party on June 5. It became significant because it was the last time that anybody was able to see Ashley. She talked to me on June 6th. June 6th, 2017 at 12:31pm Kimberly showed.

[Payne Lindsay]

Me her last Facebook messages with Ashley. Kimberly said, are you okay? Ashley replied, always.

[Narrator]

The last message I sent to Ashley was that I asked her if she was home and she replied with no. If she needed any help, she would have told me right away. Because in the message I asked her if she was okay and she said always.

[Payne Lindsay]

That was on June 6, just a day after the party. But no one knows where she was texting from.

[Narrator]

I don't know where she was at the time. I don't know where she was at. I believe wherever she was held a key.

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[Kerry Lance]

Wow.

[Narrator]

What's up?

[Kimberly Loring]

I just bought and financed a car through Carvana in minutes.

[Payne Lindsay]

You, the person who agonized four weeks over whether to paint your wall's eggshell or off white, bought and financed a car in minutes.

[Narrator]

They made it easy.

[Payne Lindsay]

Transparent terms, customizable, down and monthly.

[Narrator]

Didn't even have to do any paperwork. Wow.

[Payne Lindsay]

Hey, have you checked out that spreadsheet.

[Kimberly Loring]

I sent you for our dinner?

[Payne Lindsay]

Options finance your car with Carvana and experience total control financing subject to credit approval. By the time police officially declared Ashley missing, it had been weeks. Crucial time was lost. But this isn't new. In Indian country, justice moves slow, if at all.

[Kerry Lance]

When the cops get called, the cops come out here and say, well, we need a statement. Well, I don't want to do that. Well, if I don't get a statement from you, I can't investigate and I can't arrest anybody. Why won't they fill out a statement? Because they're afraid of retaliation. Sad. Because back in the day it wasn't like that. The village was the village. We were all together for the mutual benefit of everybody that lives here. I don't try to bad mouth law enforcement. I support law enforcement. All law enforcement. But if you don't like your job, you should find a different job. You know, when shit happens out here, they don't put any effort into solving it. Holding anybody accountable. I don't know if it's because of nepotism. You know, a lot of times people appear before a tribal judge and the judge will be related to them. And if that judge puts their ass in jail and does what needs to be done, then the criminal's family turns on that person. And that's the way it is out here. It's a cat chasing its tail round and round and round. We're not getting anywhere. When they try to utilize tribal courts to hold people accountable, it's not working because of the nepotism, favoritism, and they're not teaching the lessons that need to be learned. Until the community decides that, well, I'm willing to give the cops a statement and go testify in court if needed. It's not going to stop. It's not going to change. And it's just. It's been like that for years out round and round and round and round.

[Payne Lindsay]

Let's just talk about someone like myself trying to infiltrate the community and figure out what happened to Ashley.

[Kerry Lance]

How safe is somebody that's out snooping around? All I could say is you need to stay on your toes. It's thin ice. Does that make sense? You're treading on thin ice out here. I've received threats and I've been told to back off on some stuff, but if we do that, they win. You know, what are you willing to do for your community? How far are you willing to go if the truth don't get out? Nothing's gonna change. And people know where she's at. They know that if they hold out long enough and they don't find her, everything will kind of disappear. Calm down. One of the problems is law enforcement doesn't put enough pressure on suspects when they're interrogating them, trying to figure out a crime.

[Payne Lindsay]

And why don't they do that?

[Kerry Lance]

Just another dead Indian. That's why. Just another dead Indian. It's one less pain in the ass. I feel that's how they look at it. There's not a fucking thing you can do about it. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. It's clusterfuck. I don't know what the solution is other than they need to put more pressure on people who are suspected of being involved. So with Ashley and them, they gotta put more pressure on the people that they think are involved. You need to take that motherfucker out and waterboard him. I mean, that's how I feel about it. But you can't portray that to the people because then you're going to become the bad guy. That's what they need. To do, though, a couple of guys need to take him out somewhere and say, all right, you're going to talk, or else. The problem is criminals don't fear cops. They don't fear the law. They don't fear judges or courts, and they're not scared of prison anymore. Rumors come in, gossip. My opinion is law enforcement need to pay more attention to the rumors, gossip, and hearsay.

[Narrator]

Why?

[Kerry Lance]

Because there's truth to it. People don't want the truth to get out. If you're gonna go up there and get involved in that, always be careful. If they think you know something, there will be people that pop up to try to discredit you. And there's going to be people. I've had people show up and help out on my searches that we suspect are involved. And the reason why they all of a sudden, out of the blue, showed up at a particular search is because they're being nosy. They want to know what we. There will be people that they wear two faces.

[Payne Lindsay]

Indigenous women are murdered 10 times more often than all other ethnicities. Murder is the third leading cause of death for indigenous women. More than four out of five women have experienced violence. More than half have experienced sexual violence. What the hell is going on here? The statistics are horrifying. Not only that, but these numbers have only even existed for a few years now, Meaning before that, no one was even collecting this information at all. Part of the problem is that these stories have been largely suppressed from the spotlight.

[Narrator]

Ashley's story, it's not unique. It's the same story as so many other people that we've met. The same thing happened to them. Their loved one went missing. They're searching. They had no help from the law enforcement.

[Payne Lindsay]

Desi Lombear Rodriguez, a professor, mother, and secret breaker. Put it bluntly.

[Kimberly Loring]

I'm the one that tells these kids, stay away from that uncle. Stay away from that auntie. Stay away from that grandpa. I'm the one that they say, oh, Desi's a crazy bitch. I'm the one that they attack for hanging up the truth. And I'm used to it. Secrets run deep. Secrets run so deep, Secrets run generations. We're very good at keeping secrets.

[Payne Lindsay]

That silence is not just cultural, it's survival.

[Kimberly Loring]

You grow up knowing who are the secret keepers. You grow up knowing who are the secret breakers. I'm a secret breaker. I always have been. I talk. It roots from a place of shame. It roots from a place of hurt. It roots from a place of trauma. Generations of it. Our reservations were established out of Bloodshed out of rape and violence, out of the killing of babies and mothers and elders. That blood is still there on our lands. We grow up there. It becomes a part of us. It's rooted in the fact that we have generations of our people who were taken and sent to boarding schools and violently abused physically and sexually and traumatized and then came back home into their communities and did what was done to them. Learned behaviors. How do you reconcile right, the abuse and the trauma and the violence that previous generations endured? I don't really think you can reconcile it. You have to heal from it. And that healing has not happened. And so that's where that silence, that's where that secret keeping comes from. It's so deep. And we pass it on, generations to generation. At what point do we break it? I grew up with a Cheyenne mom telling me, desi, whatever you do, do not drive anywhere by yourself off the reservation. Wear a baseball hat, put your hair up, don't wear earrings. Don't look like an Indian woman driving around in Montana by yourself. We're a target. Targets for the police, targets for just passersby, the thousands of truckers that drive through rural America every day. There's a lot of violence. Our women are the easiest victims of it all. It's like, why are we here? Why are we here on this earth? Why was I born a Cheyenne woman if not to figure out how to protect the next generation of Cheyenne kids? It's a crisis that has only just come to the forefront for the mainstream, the rest of the world, the non indigenous world, for those of us who are indigenous peoples, for those of us who especially are indigenous women, this is nothing new. It's important to know that as an indigenous woman living in such a place that we have never been safe. We are a people still in the middle of trauma, still in the middle of violence, still trying to figure out how do we just survive. I've experienced it my whole life. I've lived under the threat of it my entire life. You know, it is not safe in our homes. It is not safe for these young kids. The rates of sexual violence, physical abuse, all of it is so high. I have a four year old. Every day I wake up scared for my son and I think, what the hell am I going to do? Where am I going to raise him? How am I going to keep him safe? I want him to be on the reservation with our family, to grow up in our culture and in our language. But how do I keep him safe? It's the same question my parents asked themselves almost 40 years ago. It's the same question my grandparents asked themselves. At what point do we break these cycles? Sex trafficking is a huge, huge crisis in Montana, particularly because we have Interstate 90 that runs through the state that connects east and west. Ashley was over on the western side of Montana. We know that there is a sex trafficking ring that's taking young girls, native women, over to Seattle. We also know that there is a significant amount of violence in our communities.

[Payne Lindsay]

Sex trafficking runs along Interstate 90 from Montana to Seattle. Ashley could have been taken. But Desi offers another chilling theory.

[Kimberly Loring]

It wouldn't surprise me if Ashley was hanging out with some folks, was at a party, was out in the woods in the hill somewhere. That happens all the time. We party in the woods, we party in the woods in 20 below zero weather. But violence, you're never ever far away from violence. That's something that is always a threat and always a risk. Wouldn't surprise me if she was murdered by one of her friends, one of her relatives, one of the community and people have just been silent about is not at all a shocker to me. To think that there are people in Ashley's community who are keeping that secret. And it is likely a much larger group than one could even ever imagine.

[Payne Lindsay]

Kimberly has never stopped searching. She told me about a dream she had. It felt real. A dream where Ashley led her to a lake.

[Narrator]

Her dreams are very powerful, and there's some dreams that you can tell that are real and mean something. There was one dream that when I woke up, I literally felt her. It was this dream. I was up in the mountains. I seen Ashley, and she was so excited to see me. And she was just like, hey, can you guys look at. This is my sister. This is my sister right here. This is my sister, and she's very proud. And she had, like, her arm around me. She brought me up to the mountains and there was this lake, and the water was just calm. This beautiful sky, which I'd never seen before. And it was so clear. And I felt like I was literally there with her. And when we walked away, it just turned dark. And we can see stars. And there was a shooting star. And she told me to make a wish and I wish that she would come home. She looked at me and she said, that's a beautiful wish, sis. She's like, that is a beautiful wish, sister. It's going to come true. It's going to come true. And then I woke up.

[Payne Lindsay]

Kimberly believes that this lake is a clue. And honestly, so do I.

[Narrator]

And when I woke up. I could feel her. I could literally, like, smell her. It was so real to me, that dream. I've never had a real dream like that. And to remember every detail, every. I believe it was Ashley. And she wanted me to look at that lake for a reason. I was trying to find her. If we are meant to find her, then there ain't anybody able to stop that.

[Payne Lindsay]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I struggle with this. Imposter syndrome is real. I'm not a cop. I'm not an investigator. God, how many times have I said this? I'm just a guy with a mic and a gut feeling that I can't shake. But I've learned something over the years. Sometimes empathy can be your best tool. And I care more about solving this case than I do about making the podcast. I'm not afraid to say this anymore. I want to find out what happened to Ashley. And I'm going to do everything within the law and my own conscience to make that happen. Before Kimberly's father died, people kept whispering a name to her. A guy named Big Al.

[Narrator]

My dad, he passed away last year on 18 January. It turns out that my father, he got in a car wreck years ago, and he had to get screws in his head. They put a fifth screw in his skull, and he would wear these bandanas on his head. These screws always gave him headaches. And he would tie it real tight. The fist grew. It grew something on it. My father, he passed away because he had a seizure. When I went to his funeral, people kept telling me that Big Al knows something and that we need to talk to Big Al. All I kept hearing was something about Big Al, Big Al. That was the last tip that I kept getting. I thought that maybe that Big Al knew something about Ashley.

[Payne Lindsay]

What's Big Al's real name?

[Narrator]

His name's Alvin. Dog taking gun. A short time after I got home from the funeral, they found Big Al's torso. He was murdered and they found his torso. His torso was found just out of town. They can't find his head. His family had to bury him without his head. When Big Al was killed, that made everything real. They said that it was the Madsen boys that was a part of Big Al's murder. They said it was the Madsen boys. Ashley, she had to go to court one time, long time ago, because those Madsen boys shot at her and her boyfriend at the time. And the Madsen boys just got out of prison around that time that Ashley went missing.

[Payne Lindsay]

They say that the Matson boys were involved, the same guys who years ago shot at Ashley and her boyfriend. The Matson boys had just gotten out of prison. Then Ashley vanished.

[Narrator]

I don't want anybody to die anymore to have anybody else be hurt over looking for Ashley.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Narrator]

I don't know about you, but I like keeping.

[Payne Lindsay]

My money where I can see it. Unfortunately, traditional big wireless carriers also seem to like keeping my money. After years of overpaying for wireless, I finally got fed up from the crazy high bills, bogus fees and free perks that actually cost more in the long run and I made the switch to Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile is here to rescue you with premium wireless plans starting at 15 bucks a month and all of their plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. By making the switch to Mint Mobile, I have better coverage than ever before and more importantly, I've cut my wireless bill in half. If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop [e-mail] tenderfoot that's mintmobile.com tenderfoot upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See MENT Mobile for details. Every day is a chance to move forward, so why settle for gear that holds you back? Roan delivers technical fabrics that breathe, stretch and adapt, keeping you sharp and comfortable. From work to workouts, Roan's advanced fabrics fight odor, keep you cool and move with you. With wrinkle release tech and a tailored fit, you'll always look as good as you feel. Upgrade your wardrobe because when your clothing performs, so do you. Rhone Performance Apparel Fit for Progress new customers get 20% off your first order at rhone.com with code RHONE20. Looking back, this has been one of the most intense seasons of up and vanished we've ever done. There were so Many twists and turns in Ashley's case. Leads that opened doors and others that led us deeper into the dark. We weren't just chasing rumors. We were chasing people. There were multiple suspects I had nothing to do with.

[Narrator]

If she was.

[Kerry Lance]

If I had do that day over, I'd have kept going, you know, because I was bringing her to the Badger Creek and she told me to pull.

[Narrator]

Over up on top there because she.

[Kerry Lance]

Had a ride coming.

[Payne Lindsay]

V Dog Sam, the man who allegedly fell asleep in his car with Ashley in it on the day she vanished. We conducted extensive ground searches, even flying in cadaver dogs, combing miles of this area.

[Narrator]

There is a lot of wind here.

[Kerry Lance]

So we're going to use that to.

[Narrator]

Our advantage as much as we can, but it is quite strong. You guys are welcome to follow me if you like, but I am going to go into some pretty probably rough areas.

[Payne Lindsay]

And I've had long, difficult conversations with people whose stories change so many times you start to wonder what they're hiding or who they're protecting.

[Kimberly Loring]

Let me get rid of this.

[Payne Lindsay]

You didn't discover something about her, him and Ashley right there.

[Narrator]

I remember seeing earrings, but he told me. And perfume, but he always told me that they were his sisters.

[Payne Lindsay]

And through it all, one name kept resurfacing. A man with a reputation. A man with a nickname. Vdog. His real name is Paul Valenzuela. And out of everyone we spoke to, he had the most to answer for. You may remember this intense moment from season three where I showed up randomly at his door.

[Narrator]

Any of this is written down, what I'm telling you right now. I'm gonna come find you, okay?

[Payne Lindsay]

Because I'm telling you right now, I'm just a podcaster.

[Narrator]

It doesn't matter.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm not trying to point fingers at anybody.

[Narrator]

Check this out, man. I know the routine. I know all this little.

[Payne Lindsay]

This little talk. I don't work for the big people. I don't work for the news. I'm just independent. It doesn't matter.

[Narrator]

Everybody's always going to blame the bad guy, okay? Everybody does it for every reason. So I'm gonna tell you right now, I ain't got nothing to do with that Lauren girl, okay? Never did, never will. Kimberly Loring is a piece of crap for the. She's been doing my family.

[Payne Lindsay]

What's she doing in my family name?

[Narrator]

It don't bother that shit.

[Kerry Lance]

Don't bother me at all, bro.

[Narrator]

I don't give where you call from, man.

[Payne Lindsay]

There's other people in the case. It's not like it's just you like there's Sam, man.

[Narrator]

Go for it, man.

[Payne Lindsay]

No, I've talked to Sam. I've talked to t. I only haven't talked to you give a about te.

[Narrator]

The TE is a piece of crap too. They're all pieces of crap. Okay, you can write that down.

[Payne Lindsay]

They're all pieces of crap. Dude, five minutes, man, please. That moment was raw and real. And since then, everything has shifted.

[Narrator]

Several people were detained overnight in Great Falls after law enforcement officers executed a search warrant. The situation developed between midnight and 1am on Monday, Aug. 14.

[Payne Lindsay]

In the years since the podcast, we've received dozens of credible tips on our tip line.

[Narrator]

She's asking for a ride to medicine.

[Kimberly Loring]

She's looking at me and I trying to tell me something, but I don't. I can't read what she's saying to.

[Advertiser]

Me, but I don't know what she's.

[Kimberly Loring]

Saying because there's nothing coming out of her mouth. It seemed like she was alive but.

[Narrator]

Had to go into hiding. And she was with people that she knew.

[Payne Lindsay]

We've been sent disturbing videos, shocking photos and cryptic messages from people. People who've stayed quiet for far too long. And now V dog Paul Valenzuela is sitting in federal prison. Why? For nearly beating a man to death with a baseball bat. And just like with Crystal's case, sometimes time itself can work in your favor. And I can confidently say today we're closer than ever to getting the answers we've been looking for. This story isn't over yet. In the next episode, we're going to break down everything we've learned since season three ended. I'm going to share with you all the tips, all the new information, and we're going to stitch this together piece by piece until we finally get the truth. For Ashley, for Kimberly, and for every family still searching. Stay tuned next Friday to hear everything new we've learned over the past several years in the disappearance of Ashley Loring, heavy runner, and find out how you can help us solve this. And as a reminder, this means we're one week closer to diving headfirst back in to season four in the Midnight Sun. Stay tuned. Thanks for your patience and I can't wait to share with you what we got. I grabbed my torch, I started up a fight? You really don't think that we're gonna survive ya?

[Advertiser]

You seem smart, like you know my.

[Narrator]

Type But I hope not around when.

[Payne Lindsay]

I draw my gun you see the.

[Advertiser]

Fire from my winches?

[Payne Lindsay]

I've been holding my tongue too long?

[Kimberly Loring]

All you see is the lights in the road.

[Advertiser]

You're running things, you're running home yeah.

[Narrator]

Starting route to Browning, Montana for 82 miles. Continue on U.S. highway 2.

[Payne Lindsay]

Oh, I don't like things done the wrong way. Oh start all right in the middle.

[Advertiser]

Of the night I will defend my.

[Kimberly Loring]

Home and start all right in the.

[Advertiser]

Middle of the night up and Vanish is a production of Tenderfoot tv, created, hosted and edited by Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Ophelia by Ezza Rose. Sound design, mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Cooper Skinner, Eric Quintana and myself, Mike Rooney. Our cover art is by Trevor Iler. Special thanks to Grace Royer and Oren Rosenbaum at uta, Ryan Nord, Jesse Nord and Matthew Papa at the Nord Group station 16 Beck Media Marketing as well as Chris Cochran and the team at Cadence 13. This episode features the song Riot by Camino. You can hear more by visiting camino music.com visit us on social media upandvanished or you can visit us at upandvanished.com where you can join in on our discussion board. If you're enjoying UpAdvantage, tell a friend, family member or co worker about it and don't forget to subscribe, rate and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Advertiser]

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[Payne Lindsay]

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[Advertiser]

Funds are conveyed to partner banks who.

[Payne Lindsay]

Accept to maintain deposits and provide the interest rate in FDIC insurance.

[Narrator]

Rate is subject to change.