Case Evidence 09.03.24

Summary

Up and Vanished: Case Evidence – September 3, 2024

Episode Overview

In this episode of Up and Vanished, titled "Case Evidence 09.03.24," producer Mike Re delves into the mysterious disappearance of Joseph Balderas from Nome, Alaska. The episode features an in-depth interview between Private Investigator Andy Clamser and Christine Piscoia, a close friend of Joseph. Through their conversation, listeners gain valuable insights into Joseph's personal life, behaviors leading up to his disappearance, and the circumstances surrounding that fateful night.

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1. Introduction to the Case

Up and Vanished, hosted by Payne Lindsey of Tenderfoot TV, investigates cold case disappearances. This episode focuses on Joseph Balderas, a 36-year-old Alaska Native who vanished under perplexing circumstances from the Blackfeet Nation Indian Reservation in North West Montana.

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2. Relationship and Background

Christine Piscoia provides a comprehensive background on her relationship with Joseph, highlighting their friendship and his character.

• Duration of Friendship: Christine states, “[...] I've known Joseph since he started working as a law clerk for the court because I was a deputy clerk when he first took on his first year of being a law clerk” (01:36).

• Personal Interactions: She describes their interactions as familial, mentioning, “He would come to my family's dinner when we had Eskimo food during the winter” (02:04).

• Character Assessment: Christine portrays Joseph as a “really nice, outgoing” individual who was “caring and just overall seemed like a good person” (02:39).

Notable Quote:

"He was really nice, outgoing, not really shy, but not putting himself out there. He did keep to himself and caring and just overall seemed like a good person." — Christine Piscoia (02:39)

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3. Joseph's Personal Life and Future Plans

Christine sheds light on Joseph's aspirations and personal relationships, painting a picture of a man with clear goals and plans.

• Marriage and Career Aspirations: Joseph was enthusiastic about moving to Juneau, marrying his girlfriend Meg, and opening a law practice. Christine recounts, “He was saying that that was his girlfriend that they were planning. He was like, I'm going to ask her to marry” (04:30).

• Relationship Details: The relationship with Meg began around June, and Joseph had expressed excitement about the future, stating, “I'm going to marry her” (04:35).

• Social Interactions: Although Joseph was friends with Christine’s family, he was reserved about his personal life outside this circle. He did not frequently discuss his relationship or plans unless directly asked.

Notable Quote:

"I'll support you because I'm your friend. And if you're happy, then go ahead. Go ahead. And marry her." — Christine Piscoia on Joseph's Plans (04:05)

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4. The Night of Disappearance

The crux of the episode revolves around the events leading up to and during the night Joseph disappeared.

• Friday Night Out: On the night of Joseph's disappearance, Christine accompanied him and her sister Kim to Breakers Bar. They were drinking IPAs and a few shots, estimating Joseph's intoxication level at a “five” on a scale of one to ten (13:30).

• Timeline of Events:

  • Early Hours: Joseph texted Christine between 11 PM and midnight, indicating he was having beer and planning to get something to eat (13:56).
  • Meeting Downtown: They met up downtown around midnight to 1 AM at Polaris after Joseph finished eating (15:14).
  • Parting Ways: The last confirmed sighting was at Breakers Bar around 3 AM when they parted ways (15:18).

• Post-Disappearance Activities: Christine mentions that the next day, Sunday, there was no communication from Joseph despite her attempts to reach him. Additionally, there was a noticeable presence of a “blue car” at Graham’s house, raising suspicions about Joseph’s whereabouts post-disappearance (21:28).

Notable Quote:

"And then we were at the beach for a couple hours and then I decided, okay, well, we should... If she [Meg] came home. Yeah." — Christine Piscoia on Sunday Aftermath (10:22)

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5. Search Efforts and Aftermath

Following Joseph's disappearance, search efforts were initiated, yet no substantial evidence was found.

• Search Locations: Investigators explored areas such as Shovel Mountain and East Fork Solomons River, but no trace of Joseph was discovered (27:56).

• Sighting of Vehicle: The only unusual occurrence was the presence of Joseph's truck at a family member’s house on Sunday, which was unusual as Jake, another individual, did not typically have a vehicle there (22:17).

• Theories Explored:

  • Bear Attack: Christine dismisses the possibility of a bear attack, stating, “I don't think that would be possible. I mean, if he was killed by a bear, where is his stuff?” (30:26).
  • Murder Speculation: While not explicitly stated, implications arise that foul play could be involved due to the absence of evidence supporting accidental causes.

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6. Personal Insights and Emotional Impact

Christine provides a heartfelt perspective on Joseph’s disappearance, emphasizing her struggle to maintain hope.

• Emotional Toll: The uncertainty surrounding Joseph's fate has significantly impacted Christine, leading to anxiety and reluctance to revisit search areas.

• Hope vs. Despair: She expresses a steadfast refusal to entertain negative possibilities, indicating, “I don't want to give up because just thinking about it negatively, I don't think would be the way to go” (31:05).

Notable Quote:

"I can't think negative about what may or could have happened to Joseph because the second I start doing that, then that means I'm giving up and I don't want to give up." — Christine Piscoia (31:05)

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7. Additional Information and Unresolved Questions

Certain aspects of the case remain unclear, leaving room for ongoing investigation.

• Weapon Involvement: There is mention of a .308 rifle associated with Jake and stored at a house after Joseph went missing, but details are sparse. Christine notes uncertainty about the ownership and presence of the rifle (23:17).

• Friendships and Conflicts: Christine affirms that Joseph was not the type to hold grudges or harbor significant conflicts, reducing the likelihood of interpersonal motives (23:17).

• Joseph's Hobbies: His passion for fishing is evident, but there is ambiguity about his fishing activities on the day of his disappearance. While he expressed plans to catch fish, the actual presence of fish in the area during that time is questionable (19:15).

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8. Conclusion and Ongoing Investigation

The episode concludes without a definitive resolution, highlighting the complexities and enduring mysteries surrounding Joseph Balderas's disappearance. Up and Vanished underscores the emotional and investigative challenges faced by those searching for answers in cold cases.

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Episode Highlights:

• Christine Piscoia’s Testimony: Offers a personal and detailed account of Joseph’s character, plans, and the night he vanished.

• Discrepancies in Search Findings: Despite extensive searches, no evidence such as clothing or personal items has been found, challenging initial theories of accidental causes.

• Emotional Resonance: The interview emphasizes the emotional strain on friends and family, showcasing the human aspect behind cold cases.

Notable Quotes:

1. On Joseph's Character:

   "He was really nice, outgoing, not really shy, but not putting himself out there. He did keep to himself and caring and just overall seemed like a good person." — Christine Piscoia (02:39)

2. On Maintaining Hope:

   "I can't think negative about what may or could have happened to Joseph because the second I start doing that, then that means I'm giving up and I don't want to give up." — Christine Piscoia (31:05)

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Timestamp Guide:

• 0:00 - 0:31: Introduction and Advertisements (Skipped)
• 0:47 - 1:20: Episode Introduction by Mike Re
• 1:20 - 31:05: Interview between Andy Clamser and Christine Piscoia
• 31:05 - End: Advertisements and Episode Conclusion (Skipped)

Note: All timestamps are relative to the start of the episode.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Up and Vanished offers a poignant exploration into Joseph Balderas's disappearance, blending factual investigation with personal narratives. The detailed interview with Christine Piscoia not only uncovers vital information but also humanizes the case, reminding listeners of the profound impacts such mysteries have on individuals and communities. As the investigation continues, Up and Vanished remains committed to uncovering the truth behind cold cases, offering hope and closure to those left searching.

Transcript

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[Andy Clamser]

Love most is that it's a Honda.

[Advertiser 2]

Visit honda.comev to see offers. Welcome to up and Vanish in The Midnight Sun Chapter 2 Case Evidence I'm Mike Re, one of the producers of up and Vanished. We've been getting a lot of requests from the listeners asking to hear the raw interviews from the Private Investigators tapes, so we're going to start releasing them today. We're sharing the interview that Andy Clamser recorded with Christine.

[Andy Clamser]

All right, this will be an interview between Andy Clamser and Christine Piscoia. It's the 29th of September 2016. Time now is about 2.24pm and we're in the conference room at the Aurora Inn in Nome. Can you tell me how well you knew Joseph and how you guys met?

[Advertiser 2]

I've known Joseph since he started working as a law clerk for the court because I was a deputy clerk when he first took on his first year of being a law clerk. And since then we've been friends and he stayed on for a law clerk for two years. So how long I've known him?

[Andy Clamser]

So how close is your friendship? I mean, are you. Do you know him well? Did he share important personal things with you?

[Advertiser 2]

Some things he did. I mean, I would say we're friends because he would come to my family's dinner when we had Eskimo food during the winter. We'll have it at least once a week and then he occasionally joined for other dinners like he went over for Christmas breakfast. I don't remember if he went over for Thanksgiving, but you know, my family was like a second family to him or a family here in Nome.

[Andy Clamser]

Can you tell me what your general impressions of Joseph are as a person? If somebody asked you to Describe him. How would you describe him?

[Advertiser 2]

He was really nice, outgoing, not really shy, but not putting himself out there. He did keep to himself and caring and just overall seemed like a good person. I mean, I didn't get any bad vibes from him. Just really nice.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay. Did Joseph seem to be excited about moving to Juneau and getting married to Meg and opening a law practice down there?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, he said he was excited that he can't wait. I mean, he had told me about he wanted to open a law firm months before he was going to be done here and said he was saving up money and he was going to Juneau often to look for a job that he could be into until he opened a law firm. And then he had told me about Megan, and I asked him how they met, and he said that was his friend's ex wife, I think is what he said. And then he had told me he was excited and was looking forward to it.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay, and did that include, you know, right up until he disappeared? In other words, no change of heart that you were aware of?

[Advertiser 2]

Not that I knew of. I mean, he never said anything. All I knew is he was excited.

[Andy Clamser]

Did he talk much about his relationship with Meg and his plans to get married?

[Advertiser 2]

We didn't talk about it much. He had only told me about her probably in the beginning of June, and I think it was the beginning of June, and that was about it.

[Andy Clamser]

You're pretty sure it was as recently as the beginning of June that he told you about it?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't know he was seeing anybody until June.

[Andy Clamser]

What do you recall him saying about Megan and his plans?

[Advertiser 2]

He was saying that that was his girlfriend that they were planning. He was like, I'm going to ask her to marry. And we were talking about how the relationship started. Started, and he said it was his friends. And I said, joseph, you don't date your friend's ex. I mean, that's weird. And I was like, that's like, okay, say you and I were dating and we broke up and I dated your best friend. How would you feel about it? He's like, well, I see your point. You're right. I said, but I mean, if you all are cool with it, then go ahead. He's like, yeah, I'm going to marry her. I said, if you're happy, then do it. He's like, I'm going to. I will. I'll do it. I said, okay, well, I'll support you because I'm your friend. And if you're happy, then go ahead. Go ahead. And marry her. He's like, well, thank you. I will. I will do it. Okay. That's what he kept saying. I said, okay, Joseph, you think this was June? Yeah, it was in June when he was telling me about her.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay. Do you know if he discussed it with Blake or X?

[Advertiser 2]

I didn't even know that was his name. We didn't talk about him or who he was. I had. I have no idea who he is.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay.

[Advertiser 2]

So. No, I guess so.

[Andy Clamser]

He came out to search. Did you meet him?

[Advertiser 2]

No, I. It was. The only people I met was his parents and his sister Selena and Michelle. And that was it. Every time I went to the fire hall, I would just start crying. So it was too hard for me. And then when I asked my family if I should go out there, they said no because it would be too much anxiety for me.

[Andy Clamser]

Were you aware that he was planning to move in August and get married when he got down there? Had he shared specifics like that he.

[Advertiser 2]

Was renting a place out in Isovieu and he wasn't really there because he was house sitting for Judge Ash until he passed away. Then when Jana was coming back, Joseph didn't want to stay at Jana's because he had already given his place up out at Icavieu before Judge Ashe died. He. I don't know when he gave up his place out of Eiseview. And so we were at dinner and he was telling me that he was looking for a place or needed a short term place because he would be leaving and August or, you know, leaving soon. And when I was driving to drop him off at Judge Esch's house, I was like, why don't you ask Graham to stay at her old house? Because they bought a new house. And so my grandma still has her old house and nobody was staying there. And I said, joseph, why don't you ask Graham if you can stay there? I mean, he's like, would she charge me rent? I said, I don't know. You go ask her. You go talk to her. Because I'm like, he's like, can't you. You just go ask her? I said, no, Joseph, you. If you need a place to stay, you go ask her. And then he's like, it's your Graham, though. You could ask her. I said, I'm not living there. And so we talked about it. He was like, well, can you be with me? When I asked Graham, I said, no, you're a grown man. You go ask her. And then I was like, fine, Joseph, are you ready now? Let's go. He's like, yeah. So we went and talked to Graham and him and Graham figured out logistics, I guess, to him staying at her house. And so he was going to stay at my gram's house until he was leaving.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay. You know, what was going on in Joseph's life in the week leading up to his disappearance?

[Advertiser 2]

He was just working. Mostly what he did here was probably work. And then he helped out with the Nome Youth Court. And then when he wasn't busy doing that, he was either running or just being at home. I thought he was happy here. He seemed. He liked it here. And then from time to time, he would go out, you know, downtown.

[Andy Clamser]

I mean, do you say that because you think that there's some possibility they committed suicide?

[Advertiser 2]

I don't think so. I. The feeling I have, I just don't think he would do that. But a lot of suicides, people don't know what they're thinking or could even tell. I mean, look at Robin Williams. But I don't believe he would even do that.

[Andy Clamser]

I've interviewed a lot of people, you know, all his relatives and friends, and nobody thought that that was even possible. His parents are quite religious, and it would be awful for them. And plus, it would, you know, no notes, so everybody's left hanging. Nobody really thought that was a possibility. Did you see any depression issues or sadness or anything leading up to his disappearing?

[Advertiser 2]

No.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay.

[Advertiser 2]

Because he told me he was happy. He was looking forward to things. Even in June, when we were at dinner one night, we were talking about how he was asking about the process of dry fish. How do you make dry fish? And so we were going to take him to camp and when the fish were running to show him how to make dry fish. And that was going to be the weekend of the fourth, that we were going to do it. And so he was looking forward to that because he just didn't believe. I guess he wanted to see how the process was. I mean, he was eating it, but he wanted to see how it was.

[Andy Clamser]

And so the weekend of the 4th, Meg was coming. Was she going to go out there, too?

[Advertiser 2]

I didn't know she was coming until the, like, I think Friday we had been out and said she was coming. And, yeah, I didn't. I don't have a problem because our family's pretty open to people coming and, you know, as long as they have a good heart and stuff, we don't. We have an open door.

[Andy Clamser]

And so it would have been okay.

[Advertiser 2]

If she came home. Yeah. Yeah.

[Andy Clamser]

You know, I understand from Reading all the other material that, that you went out with him Friday night until late. Do you remember seeing anyone or interacting with anyone while you guys were out?

[Advertiser 2]

No, because it was. Well it was me, Joseph and my sister. I mean, I hate to say I think Kim felt like she was at third will and so he didn't really interact with a lot of people because we would just sit there and talk like we always did. Just talked about whatever's going on or just talking and I didn't see him interact with a lot of people.

[Andy Clamser]

How about yourself or Kim? Did you guys run into people?

[Advertiser 2]

You know, I mean we know a lot of people and so we said hi to a lot of people, we talked to other people. I mean he was right there with us but. And he was real cordial, you know, saying hi or you know, I'm Joseph or you know, just.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you remember who any of those people were that you ran into?

[Advertiser 2]

Oh, there was a lot of people.

[Andy Clamser]

And plus I mean at the time it wouldn't be something that you have to commit to memory either. So I guess I'm just wondering if there's anyone that sticks out. Do you remember running into.

[Advertiser 2]

No. I mean Joseph literally probably just talked and hung out with Kim and I. He didn't really put himself out there to be like, oh, jumping right in and being, you know, real loud. He just kind of wanted to hang out.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you remember anything that you guys talked about that night?

[Advertiser 2]

No. He was telling me about Megan and then nothing really, it was just chit chat. Nothing that I could remember that sticks out. It's just generally what we talk about.

[Andy Clamser]

What do you remember him saying about Megan that night?

[Advertiser 2]

Everything I've said. I mean he said he had a girlfriend, said he was moving there, that he wants to open a law firm, that he going to get married to her and that's about it. He was saying he has to find a place to live down there and that was about it. And I guess the understanding Joseph and I had was that we unless we directly asked about stuff, we didn't really tell all. He seemed pretty reserved with his private life. I mean we were friends but it wasn't like questions I knew I should ask him or you know, oh, hey, do you have a girlfriend? Oh, what? You know, and stuff like that. I didn't know. And not that he couldn't have a girlfriend, I just. He didn't really have one here in Nome, so.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay. And that night did he sound excited about all these big changes in his life?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, he was Excited? He was really excited. He was happy about it, looking forward to it.

[Andy Clamser]

How much did he drink that night?

[Advertiser 2]

He was drinking IPAs, and we had some shots at breakers, but mostly beer because that's what he stuck to.

[Andy Clamser]

Did he have any shots?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, he had shots with me and Kim. Only a couple, and then he stuck to beer because he wasn't a big liquor drinker.

[Andy Clamser]

I'd like you to use a one to ten scale, with ten being passed out drunk and one being sober, and estimate his level of intoxication by the time you parted ways that evening.

[Advertiser 2]

I wouldn't say he was probably a five. I mean, he knows his limits. And he wasn't sober because he had already been drinking before I met up with him.

[Christine Piscoia]

Mm.

[Andy Clamser]

How do you know that?

[Advertiser 2]

That he had been drinking? Well, he had ended up texting me between 11 and 12 that night, and then I ended up calling him because I started drinking about 11. And I called him, and I asked him what he was doing, and he said he was having some beer, and then he was gonna go look for something to eat because he was hungry. And I said, well, maybe by the time you get done eating, we can meet up somewhere downtown. He said, okay, well, let me get some food and I'll meet up with you. And I said, well, I'm waiting for the sitter anyways, so let me know when you're done. And that was it.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay.

[Advertiser 2]

And then I called him when we were going to town, and he said he was at Soap and Suds, I think is where he got food from. And. And he asked if I wanted anything, that if I wanted something, he would bring it. And I said, no, I'm fine. I'm okay. What time was that we finally met up with him? Probably about between 1230 and one is when we finally were making it downtown. And I almost think it was around. Yeah, between 12:30 and 1. I don't know the exact time when we met up, because we met up at Polaris, and Kim and I got there first, and we had a drink and then grabbed a beer, and then we were waiting, and then he showed up.

[Andy Clamser]

And then. Where did you last see him that night or early morning?

[Advertiser 2]

Breakers, I think we parted ways at breakers because I was feeling pretty drunk.

[Andy Clamser]

Did he go back to Soap and Suds that night?

[Advertiser 2]

I don't know. And I don't think. I don't know. And I don't think he would if he ate before, because I believe Kim and I got into a cabin. We had went home, and since he lived Right in town. He walked and he usually walked.

[Andy Clamser]

Anyways, about what time do you think you guys parted ways?

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[Andy Clamser]

Memory about all that?

[Advertiser 2]

It's fuzzy here and there, but I remember being at Breakers. I remember being there, we were drinking and then going home and then that went up by the time I got home. Then I don't remember being at home.

[Andy Clamser]

And then what happened the next day on Saturday?

[Advertiser 2]

We talked in the morning, but I barely remember what we talked about. And we talked for a while, but I can't remember what we talked about. It was just generally again, whatever. And it happened to be nice out that day. And I was telling him I was going to eat something, shower and eat something, we should go to the beach. And so by the time I showered, finally ate something, got all the kids ready, it's too nice to be inside, too hungover to be inside too. And so he said okay. And so I got all the kids ready, went down to the beach and we were waiting for him. And then we were at the beach for a couple hours and then I decided, okay, well, we should. Well, I said we like me and the kids should go to camp because it was nice out. And I told Joseph, I said, if you want to go to camp, you're welcome to go. You know where it's at. He's been to camp before, but he said, no, I'm going to go look for fish. And I kind of laughed and said, where are you going to find fish? There's no fish yet, it's too early. And he's like, get the mouse. People Said, they're catching fish. I said, okay. He's like, you can go. I said, I'm not looking for fish. I'm going to camp.

[Andy Clamser]

So at the end of June, there weren't any strong salmon runs?

[Advertiser 2]

I didn't think so. I mean, there could have been trout, but I didn't think there was fish. But I could have been wrong. People were catching some here and there, but nothing like a strong run because, like I said, the weekend of July 4th, we were gonna go. Go get dry fish.

[Andy Clamser]

He was a big fisher person, though, right? He liked to go fishing?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, he said he liked fishing.

[Andy Clamser]

Did you ever go fishing with him?

[Advertiser 2]

We did go fishing once, I think last year. We had went out to. Between Solomon and whatever is after Solomon. I can't think. East Fork, maybe between that point. We went in, had a picnic.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you think that Joseph went out to mile 44 to fish? Seems like a long way to go for a marginal river.

[Advertiser 2]

You can find trout and grayling up there. But I don't know. He didn't tell me about. The only place he said he was going fishing was at the mouth of the Nome river right here, you know, not anything out there. He didn't say anything. But, I mean, you can catch trout and grayling, I think, at East Fork and anywhere between East Fork and Solomon.

[Andy Clamser]

Okay, so you presume that he walked home that night, but you don't know for sure?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah, he was a runner. He was fine with walking. And I said, okay. And he's like, I live right there. He would just point over there because it's actually in town to. Whereas when he lived out of Isobu, it's right there. I live town.

[Andy Clamser]

So he could have gotten a ride with you?

[Advertiser 2]

No, not in the cab. It was just Kim and I. Oh, okay.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you know of anyone who saw Joseph or the truck back in Nome after Saturday afternoon?

[Advertiser 2]

Not that I know of. I mean, Jake had just moved in to my gram's house. My cousin. And I've never talked to Jake about what he saw or what he thought or what had happened that day. Because Joseph and Jake, I don't know if they really talked. It was just like a cordial, oh, hey, roommate, you know, type of thing. But I don't know. I know when I came back from camp, I didn't drive over there to see if he was in town or anything. And I didn't text him. So I don't. I don't know. I do know on Sunday because my sister was going to have knee surgery. We were bringing her out there and we went back to my parents to meet up with my parents because they were. My mom was going with Kim. And my mom had mentioned. Dad was. I keep forgetting to ask you. How come there's a blue car parked at Graham's house? Because Joseph was like. One time when he was first moving in there, he was like, nobody's gonna call the cops on me, right. For me being at that house. I said, I don't think so. I mean, he's like, okay. And so my dad was going to ask who's car that was. We drove down that way. But I don't remember if I saw it or not. But I know my parents had seen it on Sunday because Kim was leaving on the midday flight.

[Andy Clamser]

What time would they have gone to the airport?

[Advertiser 2]

I think I brought Kim to check in closer to 11. And I don't know when my parents checked in because they. We went separately.

[Andy Clamser]

So did your parents fly to Anchorage?

[Advertiser 2]

My mom and my sister did because she was gonna go have knee surgery.

[Andy Clamser]

But your dad didn't?

[Advertiser 2]

No, I don't think so.

[Andy Clamser]

And this was on Sunday.

[Advertiser 2]

And I had texted Joseph on Sunday asking him if he wanted to go to the A and B picnic. And I never got an answer. And I called him once and it went to voicemail. And I never heard from him on Sunday because he likes going to community things. I always offered him to go places to do things. And he never answered. About the A and B picnic.

[Andy Clamser]

Did they say that they definitely saw Joseph's truck at the house on their way to the airport?

[Advertiser 2]

I would ask them. I mean, because I know my mom had mentioned that dad has been wondering whose car is there. Because for a long time there was no cars there. And it was just us moving things. Because, I mean, I know mom had said dad was wondering and generally we'll ask each other questions if we know something. And so mom said dad was wondering whose car was there because his car was always there, because he always walked, because he was in town.

[Andy Clamser]

Did Jake have a car there?

[Advertiser 2]

No.

[Andy Clamser]

So he didn't have a vehicle?

[Advertiser 2]

No, because I think his was down at the time.

[Andy Clamser]

What kind of car is it Normally.

[Advertiser 2]

When before Jake moved out of his dad's, it was. And before the car broke down. I think it was a green. I can't even tell you the brand or what type. It's a small green car.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you remember Joseph ever talking about anyone that he was having problems with and known?

[Advertiser 2]

He never said anything, but I don't think he's the type of person to be. Have someone to be mad at him because he would confront if there was an issue, he would ask him about it or, you know, I don't think he was that type of person. Person to have anybody mad at him.

[Andy Clamser]

What about someone related to his work at the court?

[Advertiser 2]

He kept to himself at the court. I mean, he would come up and do his work and talk to us, but he generally kept to himself in his office. And I don't think he had any misunderstandings with anybody, but it wouldn't be one of those questions. I would ask Joseph, oh, hey, Joseph, is anybody mad at you today? Or, you know, he didn't say anything, so I didn't know to ask.

[Christine Piscoia]

So.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you know anything about this whole issue with Jake's.308 rifle that Kevin had taken over to their house and put down in the storage room after Joseph went missing?

[Advertiser 2]

We were talking about it at Graham's one day. I don't. I never asked Kevin about it, but Bonnie and Graham had mentioned that Kevin had brought a gun over to Jake's house. And I don't know if Kevin told anybody or what Bonnie had just said that it was in the grocery room, I think is where he said he put it.

[Andy Clamser]

Was that like a storage area downstairs?

[Advertiser 2]

Yeah.

[Andy Clamser]

Whose rifle was it?

[Advertiser 2]

Bonnie was saying it was Jake's, but I don't know if Jake ever had any guns. I mean, I don't. I don't know. I would imagine Jake having guns and his dad goes hunting.

[Andy Clamser]

Sure. Yeah.

[Advertiser 2]

So I would imagine looking out here.

[Andy Clamser]

You'D think so, yeah. And you don't recall Joseph ever saying anything about fishing in the Solomon river out that far at a 44 mile?

[Advertiser 2]

No. I'm sure he would have an idea about fishing out there because like I said, when we went to that picnic, my dad had went fishing, but he's never. He never said anything. Yeah, I'm going fishing out there.

[Andy Clamser]

Or was that picnic near there?

[Advertiser 2]

There's a straightaway that happens out there, and I don't even know what mile it is, but you could turn off to the right and then you go down a little bit and there's this little pit area where we. Next to the river where we had a picnic.

[Andy Clamser]

The area where his truck was was between the two bridges. Does that help?

[Advertiser 2]

I don't know. I haven't gone out there since Joseph has been missing. It's hard enough for me to go to camp, so I just have bad anxiety and I want to go out there to see where it is.

[Christine Piscoia]

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[Advertiser 1]

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[Advertiser 2]

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[Christine Piscoia]

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[Andy Clamser]

Did Joseph ever talk with you about running the ridges out in that area?

[Advertiser 2]

He had mentioned a hike that when we were out on that ride on the picnic, he said he wanted to do the Shovel Mountain hike. It was a real nice hill that you could just run up and run back down. And he said he can. He wanted to do that and someday he'll do it and that. This was on the picnic when we were going back into town. I knew he went hiking, but the only other hike he mentioned about doing was like a 473 or 437 hike, but I think that one's on the Teller Road.

[Andy Clamser]

I don't know where is Shovel Mountain?

[Advertiser 2]

It's in that general area. I would have to go out there to show you to know where it's at.

[Andy Clamser]

So did they search there?

[Advertiser 2]

I don't know.

[Andy Clamser]

Did anyone tell them about that?

[Advertiser 2]

I want to say I think Kirk mentioned that they were around between. They looked all around the Shovel Mountain East Fork where his car was by that mine dredge area, in that area out there, but just all around that area.

[Andy Clamser]

How well do you know Jake and what are your. Your general impression?

[Advertiser 2]

I used to babysit Jake when he was younger, and through the years we would always have family dinner. But to be like, oh, yeah, I hang out with Jake all the time. It wasn't like that because I was a lot older and had my own things going on and never really hung out with Jake. I did support him. When he was playing basketball and doing high school stuff, I supported him. I would go watch the games here. You know, I'd ask how everything's going. And then he left for school and just really didn't talk to Jake.

[Andy Clamser]

Then did he go to uaa?

[Advertiser 2]

Yes.

[Andy Clamser]

And so how long did he just go? Two years or.

[Advertiser 2]

I don't even. I don't remember. I know this last year he's gone.

[Andy Clamser]

So was he gone, like for the whole school year in Anchorage?

[Advertiser 2]

I think so, because he was working at credit union one here, and then he transferred there so he can go to school. So he was going to school and working.

[Andy Clamser]

Did you say where he was living in Anchorage?

[Advertiser 2]

I think Bonnie said him and Renee had a place in Anchorage of their own, but I don't know where it was.

[Andy Clamser]

And that would have been this past year?

[Advertiser 2]

Mm. Within the last year.

[Andy Clamser]

But they aren't together anymore?

[Advertiser 2]

No.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you know why?

[Advertiser 2]

I don't.

[Andy Clamser]

Do you know who Joseph would usually hang out in Nome with? Other than, you know, yourself?

[Advertiser 2]

Just. I don't even know. I mean, I know he had other friends, but Joseph is like a home type person. Like, he was okay with staying at home and then the job he had, he didn't really want to go out and be out because of the job he. He had.

[Andy Clamser]

So was it unusual for them to go out drinking like that on Friday night?

[Advertiser 2]

From time to time? Joseph would. He wouldn't do it often, but he would. I know he never went out when he was doing judge work on the weekends.

[Andy Clamser]

I think it's very likely that he was killed by a bear. And the searchers found no trace of it.

[Advertiser 2]

I don't think that would be possible. I mean, if he was killed by a bear, where is his stuff? The searcher. From what I've heard, the searchers have found nothing. I mean, no backpack or no clothes, no nothing. So if he was killed by a bear, something has had to show up, right? I mean, theoretically.

[Andy Clamser]

That's right. I mean, that's. Normally they find stuff, and from what.

[Advertiser 2]

I've heard they haven't found anything. Nothing.

[Andy Clamser]

Is there anything I haven't asked you about that you think might be important?

[Advertiser 2]

I mean, I've told everybody everything that I know and what I've thought. When I was talking to the private investigator that they hired, he was like, well, what do you think happened to him? And he started saying these things and asking me if that's what could have happened. And I was telling him this. If I'm saying yes, that could have happened, then that's me giving up hope for anybody. Finding Joseph, he's like, do you think he could have been murdered, killed by a bear or other things? And I said, I don't know. Because the way I feel is that if I say yes to something that I'm losing hope finding him. I don't want to give up because just thinking about it negatively, just I don't think would be the way to go. And after I told him that, I said I can't think negative about what may or could have happened to Joseph because the second I start doing that, then that means I'm giving up and I don't want to. And he tried asking why? And I said, because that's just the way I feel. And I believe is that the second I start thinking in my mind of everything that could have happened and that means I giving up or starting to lose hope and I don't want to. So he quit asking me questions about it. But I was just like, I don't want to lose hope. If you really want to engage in the conversation here, by all means, go join the up and vanish Discord. I put a link to the discord in the episode description. Also, if you want to stalk me on Instagram, it's ainzy. And if you're not already, you should definitely follow up and vanish on Instagram. Panished. See you next week.

[Payne Lindsay]

Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsey. Lead producer is Mike Rooney along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional Production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique, Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by makeup and vanity. Set mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the North. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show Notes. For more podcasts like up and Vanished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app, or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.

[Kaley Cuoco]

Water Damage is no Joke did you know that water damage makes up more than 25% of all home insurance claims and the average claim costs over $13,000. Don't let small leak turn into a big expense. Learn more at go.pemco.com Nojoke Pemco Mutual Insurance Co. Seattle, WA did you know that after World War II, the US government quietly brought former Nazi scientists to America in a covert operation to advance military technology? Or that in the 1950s the US army conducted a secret experiment by releasing bacteria over San Francisco to test how a biological attack might spread without alerting the public? These might sound like conspiracy theories, but they're not. They're well documented government operations that have been hidden away in classified files for decades. I'm Luke lamanna, a Marine Corps recon vet and I've always had a thing for digging into the unknown. It's what led me to start my new podcast, Declassified Mysteries. In it, I explore hidden truths and reveal some eye opening events like covert experiments and secret operations that those in power tried to keep buried. Follow redacted Declassified Mysteries with me, Luke lamanna, on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts to listen ad free. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery App.