Friendly Universe | High Strange Season 2

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Up and Vanished – “Friendly Universe” | High Strange Season 2

Host: Payne Lindsay (Tenderfoot TV)
Date: May 5, 2026
Episode: Friendly Universe (High Strange S2E1)

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Overview

In this special crossover episode, Payne Lindsay introduces listeners to High Strange Season 2, departing from true crime to investigate the extraordinary—specifically, first-hand accounts and government revelations about UFOs and contact with non-human intelligence. The episode weaves interviews, Congressional hearings, scientific exploration, and deeply personal narratives to question how humanity responds to monumental truths and why, despite unprecedented acknowledgment and possible evidence, society seems largely indifferent.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Allure and Exhaustion of the Unknown (03:27–06:18)

• Payne Lindsay opens with a monologue on modern life's overwhelming routines, distractions, and the numbing effect of constant news—especially regarding world-shaking topics like extraterrestrial life.
• Central thesis: Why do unprecedented revelations about non-human intelligence land with a shrug instead of awe or fear? Is our exhaustion the real conspiracy?
• Quote (Payne Lindsay, 06:19):

  “It’s not that the question isn’t big enough, it’s that our brains are exhausted. Even if aliens exist...either way, I still have shit to do.”

2. Government Disclosure and the Erosion of Secrecy (08:34–22:13)

• Recap of recent US Navy and Pentagon admissions: Official videos of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAPs), formerly ‘UFOs’.
• Interview with Leslie Kean (NYT journalist):
  She describes the slow but undeniable shift in government posture, legal protections for whistleblowers, and hints of retrieved materials.
  • Quote (Leslie Kean, 09:38):

    “They have not been willing to shut that door, tell the world that this is something not made by humans, which they know.”

• Scene-setting of the Congressional UAP hearing, attended in person by Payne Lindsay.
• Introduction of David Grusch, former intelligence officer and whistleblower.
  • He asserts under oath the existence of multi-decade UAP crash retrieval programs, coverups, and even non-human “biologics.”
  • Multiple Congress members probe the reality of government knowledge, program secrecy, and whistleblower retaliation.
  • NOTABLE MOMENT (David Grusch, 15:34):

    “In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues?”
    “Yes.”

  • (David Grusch, 19:49):

    “Non human. And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still in program.”

3. Science, Injury, and the “Weird Bucket” (24:01–31:21)

• Gary Nolan, a respected Stanford scientist, recounts his induction into the world of UAPs—not via stories, but through data.
• Military and intelligence agencies present him with patient MRIs showing rapid-onset white matter brain disease, linked by witnesses to close contact with anomalous craft (“UFOs”).
  • Quote (Gary Nolan, 27:36):

    “They had white matter disease in the brain. Inarguable. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later, they did… Some of these people said that they’d gotten close to UFOs.”

• He describes being hooked by the consistency of injuries and the mystery surrounding them, stressing the need for a scientific approach to these phenomena.
  • (Gary Nolan, 30:48):

    “All science is paranormal explained. There's something here that is interacting with us... That's my belief.”

4. The Strieber Encounter – Physically Real Contact (02:37–38:46 and 33:59–44:52)

• Whitley Strieber recounts his now-famous 1985 encounter ("Communion"):
  He describes the sudden onset of paralysis, presence of entities with large black eyes, and experiences of being in an unfamiliar room.
  • Quote (Strieber, 02:37 and 33:59):

    “I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about two feet away… and they weren’t human.”

  • Under hypnosis and medical investigation, his memories intensify:
    Abduction, physical marks, a rectal tear, extreme distress, and test results indicating very real trauma.
• The narrative is corroborated, at least in its physicality, by medical tests and eventually by a neighbor (retired state trooper) ashamed for not intervening.
  • Quote (Strieber, 44:00):

    “He said to me, ‘I’m just so embarrassed, ashamed, the fact that I ran.’ And I said to him, if you tried to help me, God knows what would happen to you.”

5. The “Friendly Universe” Philosophical Lens (31:21, 43:33)

• Payne closes with an extended reflection on Albert Einstein’s question: Is the universe hostile or friendly?
• He argues choosing a “friendly universe” outlook is a higher calling—not naïve optimism, but a demand for responsibility and engagement even when faced with darkness.
  • Quote (Payne Lindsay, 31:21):

    “If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters… I’d like to choose the friendly universe not because it’s comforting, but because it demands more from me.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• Payne Lindsay (06:19): “It’s not that the question isn’t big enough, it’s that our brains are exhausted. Even if aliens exist…either way, I still have shit to do.”
• Leslie Kean (09:38): “They have not been willing to shut that door, tell the world that this is something not made by humans, which they know.”
• David Grusch (15:34): “In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues?” — “Yes.”
• David Grusch (19:49): “Non human. And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still in program.”
• Gary Nolan (27:36): “They had white matter disease in the brain…Some of these people said that they’d gotten close to UFOs.”
• Gary Nolan (30:48): “All science is paranormal explained. There’s something here that is interacting with us...that's my belief.”
• Whitley Strieber (33:59): “I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about two feet away… and they weren’t human.”
• Whitley Strieber (44:00): “I’m just so embarrassed, ashamed, the fact that I ran.”
• Payne Lindsay (31:21): “If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters… I’d like to choose the friendly universe not because it’s comforting, but because it demands more from me.”

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Major Timestamps

• 02:37–03:27: Whitley Strieber’s abduction narrative begins
• 08:34–10:53: Leslie Kean on 2017 NYT story and government shift
• 12:12–22:13: Congressional hearing and David Grusch whistleblower testimony
• 24:01–27:24: Gary Nolan enters the story, scientific anomalies with patient injuries
• 33:59–44:52: Full retelling of Strieber’s “Communion” encounter and aftermath
• 31:21, 43:33: Payne’s Einstein “friendly universe” reflection and episode closing

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Episode Flow & Takeaways

• The episode leverages a blend of skepticism, open-minded exploration, and first-hand testimonies.
• Lindsay’s monologue ties the societal and existential threads together: The indifference to world-changing news is as strange as the news itself.
• Interviews with scientists and journalists emphasize the need for data and critical thought, not just belief.
• Strieber’s retelling—and its grounded, medical corroboration—serves as a case study in the physical reality (if not ultimate explanation) of some encounters.
• The philosophical coda challenges listeners to engage with wonder and responsibility, not just fear or apathy, even amid profound uncertainty.

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In summary:
“Friendly Universe” bridges the gap between government transparency on UAPs, harrowing personal experiences, and our collective psychological response. It refuses to settle for easy answers, urging listeners to remain alert, critical, and—above all—open to the strangeness both in the skies and within ourselves.

Transcript

[Narrator]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

[Payne Lindsay]

Is the government hiding proof of intelligent life beyond our planet? A new season of High Strange is here. The explanation keeps changing, but the stories don't go away.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Videos appearing to show UFOs flying through the air are real.

[Payne Lindsay]

My name is Payne Lindsay, and my new season of High Strange goes deeper into real encounters, first hand accounts and the explanations that never seemed to stick.

[Narrator]

Images of that rotating thing captured by US Navy aircraft.

[Payne Lindsay]

I talked to scientists, military witnesses, pilots, and people who saw something they can't unsee.

[Whitley Strieber]

There is no other explanation for what we saw that day. I remembered those faces and they weren't human.

[Payne Lindsay]

High strange seasons one and two are available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Season three of High Strange is coming June 26th. For ad free listening, subscribe to [e-mail] hey guys, it's Payne. I know some of you are about to hear this and think, here we go, some weird conspiracy rabbit hole. And trust me, I get it. If you've watched the news at all lately, or even just been on social media, you've probably heard these weird stories about UFOs, missing scientists, people in Congress speaking out about secret programs. And if you're at all curious like me, you might be thinking, what the hell is going on here? Like though, that central question is exactly why I made a show called High Strange. And before you roll your eyes, it's not me sitting around in a tinfoil hat. It's me doing what I always do. Following the story, talking to the real people involved, and trying to figure out what's actually real and what isn't. We just dropped season two of High Strange, so if you haven't heard it, there's two seasons out right now you can go binge. If you're a fan of up and Vanished, then I promise you you're going to enjoy this too. So without any further selling, I'm just going to play episode one of season you right here. It's called Friendly Universe. High Strange Season 1 and Season 2 are available right now wherever you listen to podcasts. And there's more coming soon, both here and for High Strange. All right, here we go. Nice to meet you right over here. I know you're short on time. I'll just get right to it. Can you paint a picture for me, starting with that first night?

[Whitley Strieber]

I will do it. December 26, 1985. I had a nice day with my family, went to bed. And in the middle of the night, became aware of the fact that there were noises around me. Felt like I was in a room full of people. And I was supposed to be in my bedroom alone with my wife. It was just something wrong. I couldn't get up, couldn't rise off the bed. And I realized I'm not on my bed. I saw these big black eyes peering at me from about two feet away. I remembered those faces. And they weren't human.

[Payne Lindsay]

This morning I woke up. Grabbed my phone before my eyes were even open. Notifications, texts, alerts. I should just go back to sleep. But I don't. Weather app says we're fine. The news app says we're doomed. Calendar app is already mad at me. Internal reminder. Stand up, drink some water. Inhale for five seconds. Exhale for seven. I need some coffee. $23 to get it delivered. Sure, why not? Time to shower. Business on top, Sweatpants on the bottom. I went to my office, which is also my house, which is also just my laptop.

[Whitley Strieber]

Now.

[Payne Lindsay]

Zoom calls. One with cameras on, one with cameras off. A few emails. A few written by me, a few written by machines. Auto Reply. Instagram, TikTok. Nah, back to Instagram. Hey, Chat. Does this sound insane? Someone's launching a podcast. Someone's quitting social media. Me too. I'll be back in an hour. Did she see my story? My iPhone tells me my screen time is concerning. Do not disturb stays on 24.

[Whitley Strieber]

7.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm in control of my own destiny. Lunchtime. Nothing in the fridge. I'll just eat a big dinner. Pause to reply to a message I'll forget the second I send it. Scroll again. Lol. So funny. My algorithm is getting weird. Is anyone checking this stuff? Back to work. I have more tabs open than my brain can handle. I should really clean my desktop. This meeting should have been an email. This email should have been a thought you kept to yourself. Left the office, which was my couch. Picked up some dinner. Time for a phone call. That bartender does make a good Manhattan, though. I'll have one. Time to go to sleep. Or should I browse Netflix for an hour first? Started a movie, stopped at 12 minutes in. Now I'm annoyed and fully awake. How is it only Tuesday? I really need to go to sleep. For real this time. Good night. We all have a version of this. A routine, a pattern, a loop if you're not careful. A hamster wheel with better wi fi work. Relationships, money, health, politics, algorithms. Deciding what we should care about today. But I do my own research. No, you don't. There's always something filling the space. Always noise, always motion.

[Interviewer/Listener]

Always.

[Payne Lindsay]

Always something new. And always the same old thing. We're being told something insane. That the universe is massive, maybe even infinite. That there's planets like ours everywhere. That intelligent life elsewhere is statistically a fact that pilots are seeing things they can't explain. That the government studies UFOs. It calls them UAPs now. I like the first one better. That they don't know what they are, but they know they're not aliens. Wait, what? Disclosure didn't happen. It got push notifications instead. And somehow we're just bored now. One more headline, just another scroll. It's not that the question isn't big enough is that our brains are exhausted. Even if aliens exist, even if we're not alone, even if the universe is crawling with something we can't see. Either way, my alarm's set for tomorrow morning. And either way, I still have shit to do. This season isn't about asking if we're alone. That question's tired and the answers are boring. At this point, this season is about something bigger and stranger. It's about why one of the biggest revelations in human history lands like an item on a grocery list. A shrug, a big whoop de doo. Because maybe the strangest thing now isn't what's out there. It's us. Okay, let's do this. Welcome to season two of High Strange.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The US Navy has finally acknowledged that videos appearing to show UFOs flying through the air are real. Videos they're talking about were recorded years ago by fighter pilots. Then in 2017, they were made public by the New York Times.

[Payne Lindsay]

While refreshing our feeds, something loud happened. Actually, a lot of loud things happened.

[Narrator]

Images of that rotating thing captured by US Navy aircraft sensors locking in on the target. Like a 40 foot long tic Tac, maneuvering rapidly and changing direction. I never thought I'd get to the place we're in now. I never thought 2017 would ever happen. Then I'd be part of it. Are you kidding me?

[Payne Lindsay]

This is Leslie Keene. She helped break the big New York Times story in 2017. That was nine years ago. This interview is from 2022. At the time, it almost sounded like she was getting ahead of herself. Like she was talking things up. Listening back now, it's clear she wasn't predicting things. She was tracking it.

[Narrator]

Nothing really shifting. And then all of a sudden, major shift happens. I'm waiting for the moment where they would be willing to say it's not from planet Earth. It's not made by human hands. They have not been willing to shut that door, tell the world that this is something not made by humans, which they know. They're just not saying it like that. I mean, that might sound pretty weird to people, but I've been studying it for 22 years and I've watched the whole evolution, what people are saying, what they're not saying. I've gotten access to a lot of insiders. Legislation that's about to pass, giving protection by the Congress to whistleblowers to be able to go before Congress and tell them what they know. Protection is coming for people. If there is going to be something released regarding materials that they may have, parts of a crashed saucer, or who knows what. These people now can reveal things that they've had to keep secret in the past.

[Payne Lindsay]

In the years that followed, everything she hinted at all started happening. Legal protections were passed. Whistleblowers were cleared to testify.

[Brian Bender]

I don't have any evidence or proof the government has some UFO materials in their custody. But enough people from that world, the Pentagon intelligence agencies, say they've heard about this stuff.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is Brian Bender, who also helped break the massive 2017 UFO story.

[Brian Bender]

I even asked the question in a Pentagon briefing. Some of us reporters were brought in and my question was, are you also looking to see whether there might have been secret programs in the past,

[David Charles Grusch]

multiple

[Brian Bender]

layers of secrecy that might reveal things about UFOs, crash materials that even people in the Pentagon today might not have any idea about?

[Narrator]

I'm just really interested in seeing what happens. I just want to watch it all happen.

[Brian Bender]

These are questions worth asking.

[Payne Lindsay]

And then something crazy happened. A public congressional hearing on unidentified anomalous phenomena.

[Congressional Chair]

The subcommittee hearing on Unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAPs, will come to order. Welcome, everyone. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time.

[Payne Lindsay]

I flew to the Capitol and was there in person. Security was tight, phones were checked, badges everywhere. The whole vibe of the room felt heavier than it should have.

[Gary Nolan]

Do I ask where the UFOs are?

[Congressional Chair]

Good morning and welcome to the most exciting subcommittee in Congress this week, the Subcommittee on National Security of the Border and Foreign affairs for discussion of unidentified anomalous phenomenon. I'd like to thank the witnesses on the panel today for sharing their stories on how they've engaged UAPs, which has brought attention to this matter.

[David Charles Grusch]

Mr. Chairman, ranking members and congressmen, thank you. I'm happy to be here. This is an important issue and I'm grateful for your time. My name is David Charles Grush.

[Payne Lindsay]

Enter David Grusch. This is when the tone took a sharp turn. This wasn't a podcaster. This wasn't some guy chasing attention.

[David Charles Grusch]

I was an intelligence officer for 14 years. I was my agency's co lead in unidentified anomalous phenomena and trans medium Object Analysis as well as reporting to the UAP task force through a PPD19 urgent concern filing. I became a whistleblower following concerning reports from multiple esteemed and credentialed current and former military and intelligence community individuals that the US Government is operating with secrecy above congressional oversight with regards to uaps. My testimony is based on information I've been given by individuals with a long standing track record of legitimacy and service to this country.

[Narrator]

A whistleblower who formerly worked on the Defense Department's UAP task force, David Grusch, claims he was denied access to information on a government UFO crash retrieval program.

[David Charles Grusch]

I was informed in the course of my official duties of a multi decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program.

[Congressman/Interviewer]

Mr. Griffin, do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs?

[David Charles Grusch]

Absolutely. Based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years,

[Congressman/Interviewer]

did you have any personal knowledge of people who've been harmed or injured in efforts to cover up or conceal these extraterrestrial technology?

[David Charles Grusch]

Yes.

[Brian Bender]

Personally.

[David Charles Grusch]

It was very brutal and very unfortunate. Some of the tactics they used to hurt me both professionally and personally. To be quite frank,

[Congressman/Interviewer]

had anyone been murdered that you know of or have heard of?

[David Charles Grusch]

I have to be careful asking that question. I directed people with that knowledge to the appropriate authorities.

[Congresswoman/Interviewer]

In the last couple of years, have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life for addressing these issues?

[David Charles Grusch]

Yes.

[Congresswoman/Interviewer]

Personally, I just want everyone to note that he's coming forward in fear of his life. To put in perspective, if they were really not scared about this information coming out, why would someone be intimidated like that?

[Congressman/Interviewer]

Has the US Government become aware of actual evidence of extraterrestrial, otherwise unexplained forms of intelligence? And if so, when do you think this first occurred?

[David Charles Grusch]

I like to use the term non human. I don't like to denote origin, certainly previously 1930s.

[Skeptical Congressperson]

And I'm pretty skeptical. I don't trust anything in this town. And I think that's because I'm from Missouri.

[Gary Nolan]

You've got to show me.

[Skeptical Congressperson]

With that being said, there's been a lot of things that have been said and so I want to get down to some specifics. At one point you had said that there has been harmful activity or aggressive activity. Has any of the activity been aggressive, been hostile?

[David Charles Grusch]

I know of Multiple colleagues of mine that got physically injured

[Skeptical Congressperson]

by UAPs or by people within the federal government. Okay, so there has been activity by alien or non human technology and, or beings that has caused harm to humans.

[David Charles Grusch]

I can't get into the specifics in an open environment, at least the activity that I personally witnessed. Not to be very careful here,

[Payne Lindsay]

what

[David Charles Grusch]

I personally witnessed myself and my wife was very disturbing.

[Skeptical Congressperson]

My view has been that we are billions of light years away from any other system. And the concept that an alien species that's technologically advanced enough to travel billions of light years gets here and somehow is incompetent enough to not survive Earth or crashes is something that I find a little bit far fetched. You have mentioned that there's interdimensional potential. Could you expound on that?

[David Charles Grusch]

I answer your first question and yeah, I'm here as a fact witness, an expert. But I will give you a theoretical framework at least to work off regardless of, you know, your level of sentience. Right. You know, planes crash, cars crash, n number of sorties, however high a small percentage you're going to, to end and you know, mission failure. Fool, as we say in the Air Force. And then in terms of multi dimensionality, that kind of thing, the, the framework that I'm familiar with, for example, is something called the holographic principle. It derives itself from general relativity and quantum mechanics. If you want to imagine 3D objects such as yourself casting a shadow onto a 2D surface, that's the holographic principle. So you can be projected, quasi projected from higher dimensional space, things showing up

[Military Witness]

at certain areas and disabling our capabilities, which is disheartening. And for us, I mean, like I said, it completely disabled the radar on the aircraft when it tried to do it. And the only way we could see it is passively, which is how he got that image. So I think that's a concern. On what are these doing? Not only how they operate, but their capabilities inside to do things like this.

[Congresswoman/Interviewer]

You've stated that the government is in possession of potentially non human spacecraft. Based on your experience and extensive conversations with experts, do you believe our government has made contact with intelligence extraterrestrials?

[David Charles Grusch]

Something I can't discuss in public setting.

[Congresswoman/Interviewer]

If you believe we have crashed craft, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

[David Charles Grusch]

As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries.

[Skeptical Congressperson]

Yeah.

[Congresswoman/Interviewer]

Were they I guess human or non human Biologics?

[David Charles Grusch]

Non human. And that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge on the program I talked to that are currently still in program.

[Payne Lindsay]

This was a former intelligence officer speaking under penalty of law. Information was being hidden above congressional oversight. When he said the words crash retrieval program, the room went quiet and the questions shifted, not just about what these things are, but whether people have been hurt.

[Narrator]

Congress's job is going to be to see what it can do with the information and what it can verify. A lot of these very sensitive programs. There's no paper trail over the next year or two. How is that going to play out? How many people will come forward and will there be repercussions against them for coming forward? Under the law, they're protected. You know, you just don't know what might happen to them because certainly there are some people within the defense world who don't want people to talk about this. A lot of the witnesses hate trying to keep this secret, right? To have to sit on this for years and years and years, and it's changed your life and it's caused tension and problems for you, and some people have nightmares or ptsd. I just hope it works out.

[Brian Bender]

The government is notorious for reinventing the wheel. I've been a reporter long enough to come across a lot of stories where I'm like, why does this sound familiar? Where there might have been a program, there might have been a report, there might have been something, but it was 20, 30 years ago. It's because they tried the same damn thing 20, 30 years ago. You know, you can't discount some of that in this topic, too. The guy who was in charge of that retired and didn't pass it along to the next guy or gal. It doesn't exist anymore. It's going to be really hard for anyone in the government to hide this stuff anymore.

[Congressional Chair]

In Washington, Ghost like objects dart across the radar screen at the CAA Traffic Control center at National Airport for several hours. General Sanford, Air Force Intelligence Director, confirms that the objects are not secret American weapons and reiterates the Air Force's obligation to investigate credible observers of relatively incredible things.

[Payne Lindsay]

Even if you remove aliens altogether and just look at this objectively, if even a fraction of this is true, then something unknown is interacting with humans and causing actual harm. Under oath, David Grusch claimed people were physically injured, intimidated, feared for their lives. This, for me, is when the whole thing stops being a belief debate. That's not a conspiracy question. That's a science problem. And science is exactly where I went next.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Hi, my name is Lloyd Lockridge, and I'm the host of a new podcast from Odyssey called Family Lore. In this podcast, I'm going to have people on to tell unusual and sometimes far fetched stories about their families.

[Narrator]

I've heard my whole life that she invented the margarita.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

And then we're going to investigate those stories and find out how much of it is true.

[Congressional Chair]

He gets a patent one month before the Wright brothers.

[Payne Lindsay]

Oh, my God.

[Lloyd Lockridge]

Please follow and listen to Family Lore an Odyssey podcast, available now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your shows.

[Congressional Chair]

Flying saucers have invaded our planet. The whole world is under attack. Can it survive?

[Gary Nolan]

I knew from the moment I was thinking anything that I wanted to be a scientist before I guess I even knew what a scientist was.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is Gary Nolan. He's not a UFO guy, he's a data guy, a real scientist who lives in results, measurements and what can and cannot be explained.

[Gary Nolan]

Being able to take things and put them together in ways that people hadn't thought of before before and make something new. I look for a need. I say, okay, well, that's what we can't do today and that's what we want to do. You see this and you see that and you put it together and go, oh, I can make this tinkering today. Retrospect, I generally call it the inevitable. If I were to take your blood, there's neutrophils, macrophages, NK cells, T cells, B cells. You could only look at a few cell types at a time. So the field was crying out for an ability to do more data. This guy at the University of Toronto had invented this instrument called cytof. His name was Scott Tanner. He was a developer of an instrument, but didn't know exactly how to apply it. He came to me and said, look, I know that you're good at turning ideas into reality. Can you help me turn this into a tool for immunologists? That instrument still sits at the top of the food chain, reading multiple events per cell. But even then I was already thinking, maybe there's another way I can do something, get more data. So what I had done was found a way to scale up the numbers of things you can measure and tag at the same time. Hundreds of proteins and thousands of genes at a time was literally a patent idea. I remember just freezing and going, where the fuck did that idea just come from?

[Payne Lindsay]

Boom.

[Gary Nolan]

Like the whole idea, it felt like, was just like downloaded into my head. I mean, honest to God, who and what you think you are is a very thin sheen of consciousness across your brain. You know, the so called executive function of what you are Meanwhile, there's all these things going on inside of your brain that are actually running the show. As a scientist, the argument is never about the conclusion. The argument is about, is the data real and was it collected correctly?

[Payne Lindsay]

When he talks about the brain, he's not speculating. One day, many years ago, Gary's life and career would take a very bizarre turn.

[Gary Nolan]

I'm sitting in my office. There's a knock on the door, And I open the door, and these two guys, they were men, guys in suits and ties, military personnel. One of them presented his credentials and said, hey, we're with the CIA, and we have a whole bunch of patients that are having some problems in my office. They laid out all of these MRIs, and they wanted to know whether or not I could detect in the blood any evidence of the inflammatory events

[Payne Lindsay]

he's describing. Damage. The MRIs didn't lie, and the timelines didn't make sense. These injuries, whatever they were, should not exist the way they do.

[Gary Nolan]

They had white matter disease in the brain. Inarguable. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later, they did something like multiple sclerosis develops over years to get to the level of what I was seeing. They didn't have it one day, two weeks later, they did. What had happened was across the military, these medical events, the Army's pretty organized, and the services are pretty well organized. Despite what some people often think, there is a channel for unexplained events that go up the chain for review. There are analysts who said, okay, well, this is weird. We don't know what it is. And it went over into what was. They called, the guys who came to my office, the weird bucket. When enough things in the weird bucket started adding up, actually showing similarities, that's where I got involved. They laid out all of these MRIs. They said some of these people said that they'd gotten close to UFOs, that they got close to a UFO.

[Payne Lindsay]

So when they told you this, did they literally say, like, they came in contact with a ufo?

[Gary Nolan]

They said, how did they tell you? They said some of these people said that they got close to a UFO and that something about the energy generated by the object had harmed them. I literally looked around. I thought, this is Candid Camera. What's going on?

[Payne Lindsay]

For him, it wasn't the fantastical stories. It was the actual data. That's what hooked him. And once you accept that the injuries are real, even if you don't know the cause, you're forced to widen the lens. If something like this is Happening now, whatever it is. How long has it been happening?

[Gary Nolan]

Some of the stories were pretty spectacular. I said, before I get involved, you're going to have to fly me out to meet these people face to face. I need to see their body language. I need to read what they're saying. Here's how they explained it. The harm that had come to the vast majority of whom, the ones who said that they'd been close to UFOs or beings or things. The UFO events, energy generated by the object had harmed them. They hooked me with the data of all of now the probably hundreds of people that I've spoken to, including so called experiencers and even weirder things. There's a story here that all seems to make sense, but the other thing that is pretty clear is that it's probably not one thing. There's something here that needs to be explained and that there's a level of reality we don't appreciate. People use the word paranormal, but then immediately you think of ghosts.

[Payne Lindsay]

Immediately, yes.

[Gary Nolan]

And I think of paranormal. All science is paranormal explained. There's something here that is interacting with us. That's my belief.

[Payne Lindsay]

Albert Einstein once said, the most important decision we make is whether we believe the universe is hostile or friendly. If you believe the universe is hostile, you move through it, bracing for impact. You assume friction means danger. You read uncertainty as a warning. You protect yourself first and explain it later. If you believe the universe is friendly, you don't become naive, you become grounded. You assume that challenges are part of the terrain, not proof that you're off course. You stay open longer, you recover faster. It's not about optimism, it's about posture. A hostile universe requires constant defense. A friendly one requires responsibility. If the universe is friendly, then what you do matters. How you show up matters. The way you treat people matters. Not because you'll be rewarded, because you're participating in something that responds. I'd like to choose the friendly universe not because it's comforting, but because it demands more from me. It means that when something breaks, I don't immediately assume I'm being punished. I assume there's something to learn when things don't go my way. I don't default to blame. I look for leverage. This belief does not guarantee good outcomes, but it keeps me in the game. In a future that's getting faster, louder and more automated by the day, staying in the game might be the most powerful choice we have left. After making season one of High School. Strange, I've heard some weird stories. Some people have been telling their story for Decades never changed, never backed down. Stuck with the same script for nearly 50 years. Whitley Strieber has been telling this story since the 1980s. Not once, not twice, for the rest of his life. Whatever you end up thinking about his experience. The consistency is impossible to ignore. And what makes his story different isn't what he claims happened. It's how physically real it actually was. Nice to meet you. Right over here. I know you're short on time. I'll just get right to it. Can you paint a picture for me, starting with that first night?

[Whitley Strieber]

I will do it. December 26, 1985. I had a nice day with my family. It was me, my wife and our son, who was then six. Beautiful afternoon, right after Christmas. We'd have a wonderful Christmas. Little country house we'd bought year before. Went to bed and in the middle of the night became aware of the fact that there were noises around me. Movement. Felt like I was in a room full of people. And I was supposed to be in my bedroom alone with my wife. It was just something wrong. Finally, I woke up, opened my eyes. I couldn't get up, couldn't rise off the bed. And then I realized I'm not on my bed. I'm in somewhere else. This room with an arched door and a little black window in it. It was really weird.

[Interviewer/Listener]

Who the hell is that? Is there somebody there? Is that somebody there? I don't think I like that.

[Whitley Strieber]

I saw these big black eyes peering at me from. From about two feet away.

[Gary Nolan]

Something's.

[Interviewer/Listener]

He looks. He's got eyes on it. Big eyes.

[Whitley Strieber]

I found myself in a room full of what looked like gigantic insects. It was horrifying.

[Interviewer/Listener]

I saw something that looked like it

[Payne Lindsay]

had a hood on it.

[Interviewer/Listener]

Near the corner in our bedroom. I don't want it to be that.

[Whitley Strieber]

The head of the New York State Department of Psychiatry, Dr. Donald Klein. He had solved many criminal cases with hypnosis. The world's best forensic hypnotist. He was the real deal. The memory began to come back under hypnosis.

[Gary Nolan]

Comfortable relaxation. So pay attention to my voice, but you remain.

[Interviewer/Listener]

So to make the country make mistake.

[Whitley Strieber]

They would move very slowly and then very quickly. They were not of this world at all. That was when I thought, I'm having a nightmare.

[Interviewer/Listener]

I don't want it to be there.

[Whitley Strieber]

They didn't go away thinking, God, this is real. I became crazed. I was on a little cot. I couldn't get off of it. I couldn't move. And I kept trying to imagine my bed. I couldn't do that either. It was so vivid. It was like real life. I remembered those faces and they weren't human.

[Interviewer/Listener]

It was sticking into my mind. It would make a noise, like a voice.

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't know where it came from, but it was a mechanical voice, clearly. And it would repeat. What can we do to help you?

[Payne Lindsay]

Stop screaming.

[Interviewer/Listener]

Why don't you like me?

[Whitley Strieber]

I'm hearing this voice.

[Interviewer/Listener]

Jesus.

[Whitley Strieber]

What can we do to help you? Stop screaming.

[Interviewer/Listener]

I didn't hear me. Holy shit. I'm sorry.

[Whitley Strieber]

Gigantic insects. Very scary. They were not silly looking at all. Ever when you were a kid, maybe watch a praying mantis. How it creeps so gracefully and smoothly along. And then wag that gets the little fly that it's after. That's how they moved. One of them was about 5ft tall. The others were all very small. They showed me a needle. They're gonna put it in the side of my head.

[Interviewer/Listener]

He touches my head with this thing.

[Whitley Strieber]

I realized then this was physical.

[Gary Nolan]

Kind of of a lot lax.

[Interviewer/Listener]

Please stop it. And I can l.

[Gary Nolan]

Like that. You guys take relax now.

[Interviewer/Listener]

What the you doing to me?

[Whitley Strieber]

I don't remember it ending. I don't remember when it ended. I remember waking up in the morning. I thought I'd been assaulted. Criminally. I was sure I had been assaulted. As this became more clear in my mind, I was thinking, you're crazy. You've had some kind of psychotic break. I woke up, I felt awful. I wake up and I felt like I'd been beaten up. Tired. I was unbelievably tired. I felt dirty. I took a shower, went downstairs. My wife told me that I was acting strangely. Over the course of the next week, I really struggled with it. The memory began to come back. The more I remembered, the weirder it got. Went to my doctor. I described what I remembered. He says, whitley, you're telling me you think you were taken aboard a flying saucer by little men? And I thought, holy, that is what I'm saying. I've gone crazy. He said, well, why don't we do an MRI on your brain then we're going to do a battery of psychological tests and see where we are. By the time another week or so had passed, the pain was very significant. I want to figure out what's going on. I went back to him. That was when he said I had a rectal tear. Someone did this. I was scared to death. It was really painful. It was a very bad tear. Something has physically happened to me, stuck this thing inside me. And I fought so much it tore my internals. Who would be creeping into my house in the middle of the night, grabbing me and doing that. The MRI scan showed that I was under a lot of stress, but I was a normal person. It was not a hat trip at all. It was very physical. The physical injuries were real. I didn't tell anyone about this. I don't know what he thought.

[Payne Lindsay]

What do you think he thought?

[Whitley Strieber]

Well, I think he might have thought I had done some kind of hallucinogens. Something has physically happened to me.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'd like to believe we live in a friendly universe. Not a safe one, not a gentle one. Just friendly. Because darkness, hostility and fear are all very real in some encounters. Don't leave when the night ends. They follow you, they change you, and they stay forever.

[Whitley Strieber]

About a year later, one of my neighbors came over to the house. He was a retired state trooper. He shows up and he says, whitley, I saw that happen and I nearly dropped my teeth. He said to me, I'm just so embarrassed, ashamed, the fact that I ran. And I said to him, if you tried to help me, God knows what would happen to you.

[Payne Lindsay]

High Strange is a Production by Tenderfoot TV in association with iHeart Podcasts. Created, hosted and edited by myself, Payne Lindsay. Executive producers are myself and Donald Albright. Editing by Mike Rooney, Cooper Skinner and myself. Original score by Makeup and Vanity set sound design, mixing and mastering by Cooper Skinner. Additional production by Mike Rooney, Dylan Harrington, Eric Quintana, Sean Nurney and Meredith Stedman. Our cover art is by Polygon. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the whole team at UTA, the Nord Group, Station 16, and Beck Media and Marketing. Check out the show's [e-mail] and if you're enjoying the show, please help us out by rating and reviewing the podcast and share it with your friends. Thanks for listening.

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