Inside the Investigation with Payne Lindsey, Dennis Cooper, and Kyle Tekiela

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Up and Vanished – Inside the Investigation with Payne Lindsey, Dennis Cooper, and Kyle Tekiela

Date: November 24, 2025
Podcast: Up and Vanished
Host: Payne Lindsey (Tenderfoot TV)
Guests: Kyle Tekiela (Crook County), Dennis Cooper (Culpable)
Setting: Live from CrimeCon

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Episode Overview

In this deeply insightful roundtable, Payne Lindsey (host of Up and Vanished) is joined by fellow true crime podcast hosts Kyle Tekiela (Crook County) and Dennis Cooper (Culpable). They candidly discuss their unique investigative journeys, the emotional toll and catharsis of chronicling true crime, and the creative and ethical pressures inherent in storytelling. The episode offers a rare peek “inside the investigation”—not of a case, but of the emotional and procedural realities behind the genre’s best-known podcasts.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Personal Stakes in Storytelling

• Kyle Tekiela’s Story (Crook County):

  • Kyle unpacks the bombshell revelation that his own father secretly led a double life as a Chicago Mafia hitman—news Kyle only learned as an adult.
  • The initial disbelief and long emotional processing culminated in him creating Crook County for both personal catharsis and, ultimately, as a public project.
  • Quote: “He was just a firefighter, paramedic in my eyes. We had no idea… We just thought we were a regular. A regular family.” – Kyle Tekiela [02:50]
  • Key emotions: Shock, anger, conflicted gratitude (for not suffering mafia blowback), and a need to process, which eventually became cathartic.
  • Quote: “Now that it’s all done, it’s extremely cathartic. Like, I feel like that monkey’s off my back now and it’s no longer my burden.” – Kyle Tekiela [06:24]

• ** vulnerability and family dynamics:**

  • Kyle emphasizes that in telling his family’s story, he had to become a character in his own narrative—requiring honesty, vulnerability, and detachment from ego.
  • Quote: “You kind of just have to be completely shameless and get rid of the ego. … I have to treat it like I’m the director.” – Kyle Tekiela [17:11]

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2. Investigating Cold Cases: Challenges & Approach

• Dennis Cooper’s Entry into True Crime (Culpable):

  • Inspired by other podcasters (namely Payne Lindsey), Dennis dove in after encountering families handing out flyers at CrimeCon—including the Christian Andreacchio case, which became season one of Culpable.
  • Quote: “...ultimately, at the end of the day, you want to solve these cases that you follow, but a big part of it too, is just getting them the attention that they need and deserve.” – Dennis Cooper [10:59]
  • Acknowledges the challenge of starting investigations with cold or obstructed police case files and the difficulty in gaining law enforcement cooperation.

• The Emotional Contract and Lifelong Impact:

  • Telling these stories forges lasting relationships with victims’ families, with a sense of lifelong responsibility.
  • Quote: “In a way I was signing a contract with the family of, like, we’re in this together forever, essentially.” – Dennis Cooper [15:33]
  • The emotional weight and trauma of the cases never truly fades.
  • Quote: “These stories never leave you.” – Payne Lindsey [14:01]; Dennis affirms and expands on this [14:46].

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3. Creative Process, Authenticity & Boundaries

• Personal vs. Impersonal Cases:

  • Kyle and Dennis discuss the delicate balance between protecting victims/families’ emotions and doing honest reporting.
  • Kyle’s process was unexpectedly introspective and required surrendering defensiveness.
  • Creative freedom:
    • Dennis extols the podcast format for its accessibility and emotional power, compared to visuals.
    • Quote: “You can convey a lot and you can tell a really compelling story by just having your heart in it and through audio only.” – Dennis Cooper [22:14]

• Dealing With Judgment and Pressure:

  • All three agree on the constant self-doubt, audience skepticism, and industry pressure.
  • Quote: “There’s a period time where everyone’s like, ‘I don’t really get what he’s doing, to be honest.’ And you gotta push through that part.” – Payne Lindsey [26:33]
  • Perseverance, authenticity, and creative curiosity are essential—regardless of “qualifications”.

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4. Sustaining the Work: Burnout, Growth, and the Need for Change

• Emotional fatigue and the need for self-care arise after months (or years) steeped in traumatic material.

  • Physical signs of burnout—“the bags under the eyes”—and the importance of recovery are discussed.
  • Quote: “I think I’ve shaved years off my own life… I didn’t realize when I signed a contract to do that show that in a way I was signing a contract with the family… forever, essentially.” – Dennis Cooper [15:17]

• Creativity and Growth:

  • Dennis highlights the creative opportunities different cases and new material can provide, and the appeal of branching into different genres to stay fresh.
  • Quote: “I also would like to break out at some point and try some. Something different. … It didn’t sound quite as emotionally exhausting.” – Dennis Cooper [24:12]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kyle Tekiela:
  • “So it’s weird knowing now that that whole part of my life was kind of like a lie and that there was always danger around every corner.” [03:15]
  • “If he wasn’t such a fuck up… the mafia thing didn’t destroy the family. His heroin addiction destroyed the family.” [04:29]
• Dennis Cooper:
  • “These stories never leave you.” [14:01]
  • “I am signing a contract with the family of, like, we’re in this together forever, essentially.” [15:33]
• Payne Lindsey:
  • “You learn that through time and you gotta, like, take care of yourself… to be able to do something, especially about anyone. Everyone else.” [25:19]

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Key Timestamps

• [01:45] – Kyle Tekiela introduces ‘Crook County’ and his father’s secret life.
• [02:50] – The shock and family fallout from his father's secret.
• [04:29] – Family destruction rooted in addiction, not the mafia.
• [06:24] – Creating the show as catharsis.
• [10:16] – Dennis Cooper recounts his launch into true crime podcasting.
• [11:40] – Investigative difficulties due to cold cases and lack of police cooperation.
• [14:01] – The “stories never leave you” moment.
• [15:33] – Emotional contract with victims’ families.
• [16:37] – On vulnerability and being part of one’s own story.
• [20:20] – Passion as the continued motivator despite negative feedback.
• [22:14] – The unique creative power of audio and podcasting.
• [24:12] – The urge to move into new, less emotionally draining genres.

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Overall Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is candid, raw, at times humorous (with plenty of friendly ribbing and self-deprecation), but always grounded in deep respect for the power and responsibility of true crime storytelling. While the subject matter is heavy, the camaraderie and empathy between the hosts make for an inspiring deep dive into the craft and calling behind some of podcasting’s best true crime investigations.

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Final Thoughts

For listeners interested in the people behind true crime podcasts, this episode is essential listening. It reveals the emotional labor, authenticity, and resilience necessary to do the work well—and reminds us that, behind each gripping story, there are storytellers wrestling with their own burdens, boundaries, and drives for justice.

Recommended episodes for further listening:

• Crook County by Kyle Tekiela
• Culpable by Dennis Cooper
• Previous seasons of Up and Vanished (notably the Florence Okpealuk and Joseph Balderas cases from Alaska)

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Transcript

[Kyle Tequila]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

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[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Hey, it's Payne Lindsay here. A few months ago, live from the Tenderfoot stage at Crimecon, I got a chance to sit down and talk to Kyle Tequila, host of Crook county, and Dennis Cooper, the host of Culpable. We discussed both of their true crime podcasts, but also dove a lot deeper into how these shows are actually made. I hope you enjoy my conversation with these two amazing podcasters. These guys are true crime podcasters like me. They have their own investigations and stories that they've told. I'm huge fans of theirs and I've known them for a long time. I think we all have kind of our own unique experience in this space and also like a lot of similarities and just kind of want to just rip it open with. I'll start with you, Kyle, for those who don't know. What is this? Just the log line of your story, your podcast, and sure, you. You came to us years ago and I was like, okay, holy shit, we're making a podcast about this. But for those who don't know, tell them what the premise is.

[Kyle Tequila]

Yeah, Crook county is a story of my dad who lived a secret double life as a Chicago Mafia hitman. And the whole family, including myself and my mother, didn't know about it. He kept it secret from all of us for 30 something years. And I found out when I was like, 29, I was already married. I was already planning on having a kid. And now I have this bombshell dropped in my lap. So what am I supposed to do with this information? And so it took me years to kind of digest all of that. And then I started recording just for posterity, just for family archives. And then as time went on and the more footage I got of him, it just started to come together. Like, it just needed to be something bigger than just a family thing. It needed to be a show.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

So I've watched the Sopranos and stuff like that. I like Goodfellas. I like mafia style movies. I don't know what it's like for it to be a true story because a part of me is like, that's badass. But that's definitely not what you thought. Correct?

[Kyle Tequila]

Well, what's weird is I still don't know what it's like.

[Unidentified minor character]

Okay.

[Kyle Tequila]

Because I grew up with, like, he was just a firefighter, paramedic in my eyes. Like, we had no idea. So we lived, like, normal, boring suburban lives. Right. It wasn't like we knew that he was this big mafia hitman growing up, and he had a reputation around town, and everyone knew we were like, mafia, you know, kids. Like, that's not what was at all like. We just thought we were a regular. A regular family. So. So it's weird knowing now that that whole part of my life was kind of like a lie and that there was always danger around every corner. Like, if he did something, he fucked up, like, that could have come back on us, but we had no idea. So that's crazy to think about.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

What was your first reaction and where have you settled now?

[Kyle Tequila]

My first reaction was, you're full of shit. Like, are you insane? Have you lost your mind now? Mind you, he was also, like, I put him through rehab and I got him clean. So he was a heroin addict. So I'm like, is this some, like, heroin, like, fever dream? Like, what are you talking?

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

What happened in that rehab I put you in?

[Kyle Tequila]

Yeah, exactly.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah.

[Kyle Tequila]

So, yeah, it wasn't an ayahuasca trip, was it?

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Right.

[Kyle Tequila]

So.

[Dennis Cooper]

But.

[Kyle Tequila]

But over time, as he started telling me more and more of the story and it became this huge, like, you know, full of details and full of life and, you know, I'm starting to verify things with people that he grew up with and other family members who didn't know, but kind of knew that he had, like, a dark side. And it all started to make sense. Like, oh, this actually is real. I don't know how much is real, but it's real. Like, there's enough there that that's real. So I just started diving in and doing the work, and eventually this. We got Crook county out of the deal.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

So to sum it up, like, at this point in time, how do you feel about it actually? Are you mad? Are you.

[Kyle Tequila]

You know, if he wasn't such a fuck up. Pardon my French.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Mm.

[Kyle Tequila]

And it didn't, like, the mafia thing didn't destroy the family. His heroin addiction destroyed the family. Okay. So I'm pissed that he's a degenerate heroin addict. And that the dynamic of our family is like, gone because is that associated with the.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

With the double life he was living?

[Kyle Tequila]

Well, I mean, he was always like. I mean, he's around narcotics and cocaine, booze all the time. And he's, you know, it's just, I can't imagine the stream stress and guilt you could feel being someone who's killed people. Multiple people like that had to weigh on him. And so you self medicate. Right. But it got really bad because as a firefighter, he was in a really bad accident. And then they gave him all these painkillers to deal with the surgeries. And that's when everything escalated as far as his addiction is concerned. And that's like when you got like.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

The legal form first and then it just became an absolute.

[Kyle Tequila]

Exactly. Then you had to hit the streets after they cut him off. So it's like, I'm more mad that that happened and it's. But now it's like, I guess I'm grateful that we didn't get the mafia blowback as a kid. Like, I'm grateful that whatever he did didn't come back on us. So it's a weird full of very contracting, you know, emotions.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You know, I've covered dozens of stories, but they've never been about, you know, my family. Right. And so like, that's got to be a completely different beast. And so I think that one kudos to you for. I mean, I'm sure maybe it's even therapeutic in some weird way to sort of like, put it down and like, I don't know, is it a processing part of that?

[Kyle Tequila]

I mean, it took me years to make it for a reason. Yeah, because I needed that time to process it. And because the whole time I'm also investigating. I'm learning new information, I'm getting new stories out of him. I'm, you know, interviewing people. I'm getting, you know, getting more raw emotions from people.

[Dennis Cooper]

And.

[Kyle Tequila]

And so it took a long time to, you know, I'm like editing and putting a story together and also processing things at the same time. Then I take a break, then I edit a little bit, and then I process and I take a break. Yeah. And so. But yeah, it's extreme. Now that it's all done, it's extremely cathartic. Like, I feel like that monkey's off my back now and it's no longer my burden. Like, it was like, now it's like out into the world and now it's like a gift. Like my gift to other people to maybe listen and maybe learn from or maybe gain some inspiration or hope or whatever.

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[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Let's start with just couple season one like you getting into true crime podcasting. Just that journey.

[Dennis Cooper]

Yeah. So not a personal story so much, you know, working with strangers. On the contrary. But as you know, I mean, you were a big inspiration for me. I just pretty much heard what you did and thought I could probably steal that formula.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Like, yeah, that guy. I could do better than that guy. Yeah.

[Dennis Cooper]

You know, so.

[Kyle Tequila]

And he did. And he's so much better.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

He did.

[Dennis Cooper]

I've been. That's what I've been saying, tell you guys. But, yeah, no, I, I just. Funny enough, I never intended on doing this. It was just something that, you know, I thought was really cool. And I was inspired what you did. I thought maybe I could. And, you know, to shorten a long story, I. I learned about Christian Andrecchio's case at CrimeCon of all places, which is why I always love coming to this. I always love seeing so many people out here and seeing these people, you know, pass out their loved ones, flyers, just trying to get attention on it because, you know, ultimately, at the end of the day, you want to solve these cases that you follow, but a big part of it, too, is just getting them the attention that they need and deserve. And so it was a 2018 CrimeCon Nashville and got a flyer from one of his family members about his case and contacted Ray Andreacchio, and the rest is history from there.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Telling the story of an unsolved case, and you're basically trying to pick up where investigators left off and move the needle. Tell me from your perspective what that's actually like.

[Dennis Cooper]

Well, it's tough. I mean, there's. There's so many layers to it. You know, just to go back to the start of your question about picking up the pieces where they've been left off. You know, oftentimes that's the problem with these cases, that's why they remain unsolved, is because that attention dies off the. The police department or sheriff's office moves on to new cases, and this one is just getting colder and colder by the day. And so, you know, also these are more often than not open cases, so it's not something that you can just walk in there and see the whole book on it and all the investigative work that went into it. Right. You're really, like you alluded to more than anything, starting from scratch. Now, fortunately, in season one of Culpable, Christian's mother, Ray, was just a warrior, a bulldog of sorts, as, like, I referred to her. And she, you know, for years was like, I'm not going to give up on this. I'm going to get to the bottom of this. And so, you know, I had a leg up in a sense of that. I knew some information going into it, but for different reasons. The authorities there did not have any interest opening up the doors anymore on that or working with us in any capacity. And that's still something I think all of us struggle with to this day. I know you just had some of that in your most recent season. It's just, I think a lot of them are still warming up to the idea of people like us, like, coming in and trying to help them essentially at the end of the day. But then on the. On the personal side, it's. It's a different kind of struggle because I do want to have a personal connection. I do want to connect with the family and meet them on an emotional level. I've always been a natural, you know, just empathizer, and so I have no problem making those connections. Where I struggle is, you know, it's sensitive material, and they can't write these stories. These are our stories about their loved one. And so that balance is always a struggle. It's always a struggle of knowing what to say and how to best say it in a way that's, you know, caring and concerning of their emotions, but also getting the truth out there.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

What's actually the hardest part about it, genuinely, or maybe even not even when you're doing it, but, like, afterwards and sort of like, you know, I was told by Mark Smerling who. Who did the Jinx six, seven years ago. And at the time, I didn't even fully get what he meant. He said, these stories never leave you. And I was like, right? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, they never leave you. He starts talking about cases he did 25 years ago. I was like, I still talk to those people. And I'm like, you're right. And like, I'd only been Eight months into investigating Tara Grins as disappearance, and I was like, I guess it's gonna be like part of my life forever. What does that even mean? Right? And. But it's true.

[Dennis Cooper]

Yeah, it's very true. I can't really put it a better way than you just did. I mean, I think, well, you.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Well, you should.

[Dennis Cooper]

I'm gonna do my best. I mean, it's like, yeah, I didn't know this going into it either. When I, when I decided to do season one of Culpable, I just thought it was like, talk to who needs to be talked to. Figure out what you can figure out. Write a story, record it.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Fortunately, you're like, that guy didn't do. I could do that shit. Yeah.

[Dennis Cooper]

I underestimated it.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You fucked around and found out.

[Dennis Cooper]

I fucked around and found out.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah. You're like, damn.

[Dennis Cooper]

And then I'm like, yes, trauma too, I bet. Yeah. Like, it is a long journey, an emotional journey. I mean, I'm pretty sure I've shaved yours off my own life, but again, it's not a pity party.

[Kyle Tequila]

Right?

[Dennis Cooper]

I'm fortunate to be able to do this and I love doing this, but man, it's a lot. And you. And I didn't realize when I signed a contract to do that show that in a way I was signing a contract with the family of, like, we're in this together forever, essentially.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Right.

[Dennis Cooper]

And that's. That's really what it was. I mean, I just, I just, I just contacted Ray Andre Akio just about a month or so ago and. And we kind of did a follow up and put an episode out about it. And we're talking like, what's new? And, you know, do we need to do some other follow up and this and that. And it's just, you know, we're talking about our families and stuff. It's not just about the victim. I mean, we're meeting on a more personal level.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You look around and see other true crime podcasts and they're mostly not about their own personal story about their dad being living some double life. So what was your approach and the closeness that you had with that and how you would delicately. Because there's a level of vulnerability there I can only imagine was kind of just weird and like, maybe uncomfortable.

[Kyle Tequila]

100%. You know, like, at first it's a story about my dad, and then as I'm recording and I'm asking myself questions and I'm contemplating and I'm mulling all this stuff over, I'm going, well, no, it's much More than that, it's a story about, like, what happened to my mom, too. And it's also a story about what happened to my brother, which means it's a story about what happened to me. So it's like. Like, going through all these mental, like, exercises, and I'm trying to figure this out, and at a certain point, I said I have to put myself into the story. You kind of just have to be completely shameless.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah.

[Kyle Tequila]

And, like, get rid of the ego.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah.

[Kyle Tequila]

And, like, if you. If, like, you know, there are times when I felt like I was really weak and I made weak decisions because I was young and immature. You know, you almost have to, like, take a step back and, like, I become a character in my own story and. But I'm not that character. I am that character, but I have to treat it like I'm the director.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

How you got here. Right.

[Kyle Tequila]

So it's a. It's a weird exercise, but, like. And it was hard at first or awkward at first, but over time, it becomes second nature. And then by the end of it, it's just like, I. I don't care at all. Like, I completely wear my heart on my sleeve. Like, I will say exactly what I'm thinking. I don't care if you don't like me. But, like, you know, in contrast to what you guys do, it's not. I'm not treating it like a procedural crime that I have to solve. I'm treating it like I am telling a very deep, intense story with a million different layers, and I have to do it, and I have to do it authentically, and I have to do it in a way that is going to make the family proud. That family just happens to be my family.

[Unidentified minor character]

Hi.

I'm here to pick up my son, Milo.

[Kyle Tequila]

There's no Milo here who picked up.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

My son from school. Streaming only on Peacock. I'm gonna need the name of everyone that could have a connection.

[Dennis Cooper]

You don't understand.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

It was just the five of us.

[Unidentified minor character]

So this was all planned.

[Kyle Tequila]

What are you gonna do?

[Dennis Cooper]

I will do whatever it takes to.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Get my son back. I honestly didn't see this coming. These nice people killing each other. All her fault. A new series. Streaming now only on Peacock.

[Unidentified minor character]

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[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

The human curiosity is at the core, like a relatable thing.

[Dennis Cooper]

Oh, for sure.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

And absolutely that manifests in different ways. So for you, Dennis, like, how do you creatively keep going when it already is a lot of pressure from a cold case standpoint and there's people saying, you suck, you got it wrong. And the family's like, I don't know if you're right. And the law enforcement's like, don't come over here. Yeah, right.

[Dennis Cooper]

Well, I think ultimately it's just enjoying what you do and being passionate about it. I mean, like you said, none of us really have the qualifications, you could say, to be in here, whatever those qualifications. Some of us don't, you know.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

I don't, Kyle.

[Kyle Tequila]

I definitely don't. No, for sure.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

If hair were to be a qualification, you do.

[Kyle Tequila]

Oh, yeah, I have. I have a PhD.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You do that? It looks so real.

[Kyle Tequila]

It's a great rug. It looks very great rug. I got a great rug guy.

[Dennis Cooper]

But yeah, just, you know, being, being passionate about it. That's why I love making connections with families, is I think that kind of helps keep you going, making it, making a very deep connection with, with the victim and knowing, like, I'm in this for the long haul no matter how hard it gets. But, you know, I'm kind of like, I think if you peeled back all of our layers, I'm sure there's something there that points to why we're here. I mean, as a college dropout, I probably shouldn't be here, but at the same time, like, was as a kid, I. I did watch Survivor. I was not filming anybody, but I did like to write short stories for fun, you know, and so I always had kind of a creative itch, I guess you could say, as a writer, for whatever reason, I did not pursue that as a career in Any sort of way. And, you know, but it worked out nonetheless. I guess you could say so. Yeah. But I think ultimately, like you said, making something that you would want to listen to, because as, you know, having made it yourself, and I listened to it as a fan, what, seven years ago, whatever, it was like you clearly didn't sound like you knew what the hell you were doing, you know?

[Kyle Tequila]

Clearly, clearly, clearly.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

How clearly was that to you?

[Dennis Cooper]

It sounded like you were walking around with a zoom.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

I'm going to, like, do exactly what that guy did.

[Dennis Cooper]

It sounded like you were walking around with a zoom recorder, walking up to people saying, hey, do you know anything about this?

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

That was like 25% of it, but.

[Dennis Cooper]

At the same time, it made it seem attainable and also made. It made me realize, like, damn, you can. You can convey a lot and you can tell a really compelling story by just having your heart in it and through audio only. And that amazed me as somebody who was always fascinated with watching true crime and growing up watching shows like Dateline in 2020 and watching every documentary that was out there, to learn that there was this medium where it had no visual representation, but yet you could feel like you were in a movie was like, well, damn, I want to do that. That sounds really cool and easier, honestly, like, I don't know how to work a camera. That would be a whole nother thing to try to learn. So, you know, I just try to master that and, you know, keep my heart in it until the end. With the stories I tell in the.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Future, going forward in any other project you do, how are you approaching it differently or what have you learned and what do you want to bring forward for your own. For your own work in this space.

[Dennis Cooper]

Doing different seasons of Culpable means, you know, you can pick a different case each time, and with that opens the door to all different possibilities. You know, this newest season of Culpable is very different in that right when I started to produce it, some. Some events happened and I obtained like the case filed of this case and on beyond that, there was like all these different recordings and stuff from way back in 1998, which has been really cool to utilize and work with and with something very different than I did in past seasons. So, I mean, I think in some ways, like, each story just being different, each victim being different, each family being different, each expert you talk to, like, it opens. Opens possibilities, like different creative avenues. Because I'm like you as a creative, like, you definitely don't ever want to get stuck in a lane or keep Feel like you're just doing the same thing over and over and over. It drives me nuts.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You also want to feel like you're doing, like, your best still, right?

[Dennis Cooper]

Yeah, like. Like, yeah. Just coming up with not getting lazy.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah. Like, you complacent with, like. Yeah, more of these, for sure. Like, that's not what this is, Right.

[Unidentified minor character]

Yeah.

[Dennis Cooper]

And that's why also, deep down, I mean, I. I also would like to break out at some point and try some. Something different. You know, I messaged you when High Strange came out and was like, man.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You'Re like, take me on a UFO ride, please. Like, yeah, all right.

[Dennis Cooper]

It didn't sound. It didn't sound quite as emotionally exhausting. You know what I mean? Like, it's just like, it's different.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

That is very true.

[Dennis Cooper]

And it just. Just, you know. So I think at some point too, I'd like to try to. To branch out and do some. Some different types of projects like that.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

And you should. I think that, like, your storytelling, like, skill set is. Could live in so many different lanes. And I think that's what it takes sometimes to even like, get this sort of energy back where, like, I've gone through, like, whoa, man. I have to, like, heal after of, like, being in the. In the trenches with something.

[Dennis Cooper]

I was going to say, do you have to, like, take a vacation after you finish the season?

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Not. It's like, it kind of just builds up where I. I don't even realize it's gotten so bad. Who am I?

[Dennis Cooper]

I usually. The bags under the eyes is always the dead giveaway when you start seeing those. When you look in the mirror.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Oh, totally.

[Dennis Cooper]

It's like, that's not good.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

You're like, but I did sleep.

[Dennis Cooper]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah, it's. It's. It's just a. You learn that through time and you gotta, like, take care of yourself to be able to do something, especially about anyone. Everyone else. And.

[Kyle Tequila]

Yeah. Yeah. Keeping that 100. You got to be on your game. Otherwise you're gonna do a disservice to whatever the story is.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Right. Or you shouldn't be doing this. There's like a pressure there.

[Kyle Tequila]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's another thing too. But like, some of the stuff that. I don't know if you've done this in years, but, like, you were doing stuff that was like, live. Like, you were editing. And then like, you. The next episode's not done yet. Like, it's releasing next week. Like, that's got to be insane.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah, it's important to sort of to, like, check yourself, balance yourself, to make sure you're. You're doing it the right way. You know what I mean?

[Dennis Cooper]

Yeah.

[Kyle Tequila]

I mean, there's a rule I learned in Hollywood a long time ago is nobody knows what they're doing and nobody knows what they're talking about, no matter how successful. And I think to some degree that's extremely true.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Right.

[Kyle Tequila]

You know, and so you just. You can't beat yourself up if you're trying to do your own thing. You just gotta go and do it, believe in yourself, and just persistence is key. And just keep cranking away and, like, it'll just start to make sense and it'll just start to get good if it's not good yet. It will if you just keep working at it. And I think that's what makes us a little crazy. You kind of have to be a little crazy to do what we do.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah, a little bit. Because, like, not everyone's going to be like, yes, correct. Right. Like, there's a period time where everyone's like, I don't. I don't really get what he's doing, to be honest. And you, like, you got to push through that part. And you're like, damn, maybe they're right. I shouldn't be doing any of this. Yeah, right. And, but like that. And that applies with anything.

[Kyle Tequila]

But also, no, but, no those people, because you believe in yourself, so just do what you want to do.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

That's true. So don't be like, wow, this guy just doesn't care about anybody. Just us.

[Kyle Tequila]

Yeah.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Really. He's so self.

[Kyle Tequila]

I just realized I'm swearing a lot in this panel. I apologize, dude.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

It's fine.

[Kyle Tequila]

I'm from Chicago.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Don't even worry about it, bro. This is grime con, dude. Thank you guys for. For sitting here and listening to us talk. Talk shit for a little while. This has been really enjoyable. Hopefully you guys were at least mildly entertained or you learned something or you at least you're like, okay, I'm never with those guys again. You know, I don't. I don't know.

[Kyle Tequila]

Yeah. Thanks for joining us.

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Yeah, Thanks for listening. This conversation was live from Crimecon with Kyle Tequila and Dennis Cooper. If you haven't already, be sure to check out Crook county and the new season of Culpable. And stay tuned for some exciting new shows coming very soon from Tenderfoot, Limu Game and Doug. Here we have the limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally. Doug.

[Kyle Tequila]

Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us?

[Host/Interviewer (possibly Payne Lindsay)]

Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates Excludes Massachusetts.

[Unidentified minor character]

Every story has layers, and sometimes the truth hides in plain sight. I'm Josh Dean, host of Chameleon, the podcast about people who transform, deceive, and survive. From con artists to unbelievable yet true occurrences, we dive into stories where nothing is ever quite as it seems. Because to understand the world, you sometimes have to change the way you see it. Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.