Kristal Reisinger: Part 1 - Payne Faces Catfish - Up and Vanished

Detailed Summary of "Kristal Reisinger: Part 1 - Payne Faces Catfish" from Up and Vanished

Introduction

In the gripping first part of the fourth season of Up and Vanished, titled "Kristal Reisinger: Part 1 - Payne Faces Catfish," host Payne Lindsey delves into the perplexing disappearance of Kristal Reisinger from Crestone, Colorado. This episode meticulously unpacks Kristal's last known movements, the complexities of the Crestone community, and the challenges faced by Payne and his team in unraveling this cold case.

1. Setting the Scene: Crestone, Colorado

Crestone Defined
Crestone, nestled in the Sang de Cristo Mountains, is portrayed as a haven for spiritual seekers aiming to live off the grid and connect with deeper energies. Payne describes it as "a place of raw beauty and powerful energy" with no building codes or streetlights, creating an otherworldly atmosphere (02:30). However, this isolation also means limited law enforcement presence, with the nearest police station 45 minutes away in Saguache. This remoteness poses significant challenges for emergency responses, leaving residents vulnerable during crises.

Contrast Within the Community
Crestone is home to over 15 spiritual centers, including Buddhist temples, Hindu ashrams, and meditation retreats. Payne notes, "It's a place where people come to get away, but some people never escape," highlighting a sinister underbelly beneath its serene exterior (15:45). The town's dual nature makes it both an ideal sanctuary and a potential breeding ground for secrecy and danger.

2. Who is Kristal Reisinger?

Kristal’s Background
Kristal Reisinger, a young mother, moved to Crestone in 2016 seeking peace and a fresh start for herself and her five-year-old daughter, Akasha. Friends describe her as "empathetic, intuitive, and full of life" with a magnetic personality that drew people in effortlessly (22:10). Despite her spiritual aspirations, Kristal had a tumultuous history, including battles with addiction and trauma.

Life in Crestone
Kristal envisioned Crestone as a sanctuary where she could heal and align her energies with the earth. Her landlord, Ora McDonald, initially thought Crestone would be the perfect place for Kristal to rebuild her life. However, Kristal's last months in Crestone were fraught with troubling signs that something was amiss.

3. The Disappearance of Kristal Reisinger

Last Known Movements
Kristal was last heard from on July 13, 2016, when she made two phone calls—one to Eli, the father of her daughter, and another to her landlord, Ora McDonald. After these calls, Kristal vanished without a trace. When Ora checked on Kristal's apartment nearly two weeks later, she found it untouched, with no signs of disturbance, contradicting reports of wild parties Kristal was allegedly throwing (35:20).

Inconsistencies in the Timeline
A perplexing aspect of Kristal’s disappearance is her alleged presence at the full moon drum circle on July 18, five days after her last known communication. Witnesses claim they saw Kristal dancing and drumming, but her absence between July 13 and 18 remains unexplained. Payne emphasizes, "What happened in those missing five days? Where was Kristal, and who was she with?" (45:50).

4. The Emergence of Catfish John

Introduction to a Key Suspect
Catfish John, a local man with a felony history of assault and drug-related crimes, emerged as a central figure in the investigation. Kristal had confided in Ora that she had been drugged and raped at a party hosted by Catfish and was planning to report him. This revelation made Catfish a prime suspect in her disappearance (55:10).

Suspicious Behavior and Evidence
An anonymous tip described seeing Catfish outside his house on the night Kristal disappeared, holding a shovel and a human-sized bundle. Although this raised alarms, no concrete evidence was found at the scene to link Catfish directly to Kristal's disappearance. His inconsistent and vague accounts only deepened suspicions. Payne recounts, "[Catfish] said they drank wine, smoked marijuana, and watched movies. Then he fell asleep and woke up to find her gone," indicating a lack of credible explanation (1:05:30).

5. Payne Lindsey’s Investigation and Confrontation

Persistent Pursuit
Determined to uncover the truth, Payne and his team dedicated months to investigating Kristal's disappearance. Their pursuit led them to confront Catfish John directly. Payne arranged an in-person meeting in Raleigh, North Carolina, aiming to extract information from Catfish.

Nervous Encounter
At a local bar, Payne confronted Catfish, who was defensive and evasive. The tension escalated as Catfish denied any involvement, exclaiming, "I have nothing to do with harming her in any way whatsoever" (1:15:40). Despite Payne’s probing questions, Catfish remained uncooperative, showcasing his reluctance to divulge information.

Hidden Tensions
During the confrontation, Catfish's demeanor turned threatening. Payne notes, "At one point, Catfish leaned in, his voice low and threatening," implying physical intimidation without direct evidence or admission of guilt (1:18:05).

6. Community and Family Impact

Family’s Desperation
Kristal’s disappearance devastated her family. Her daughter, Akasha, expressed heartbreaking concerns: "Mommy's cold in a cave, we need to go find Mommy" (1:25:30). Kristal’s stepfather, Rodney, exemplifies unwavering hope, stating, "I'll sell everything I own if it means finding her" (1:27:50).

Community’s Fear
The entire Crestone community is haunted by Kristal’s disappearance. Residents live in fear, pondering whether the perpetrator could be someone they know. A community member reflects, "Living among the people responsible is haunting" (1:30:10), underscoring the pervasive anxiety within the town.

7. Ongoing Investigations and Future Steps

New Leads and Collaborations
Despite extensive searches with search dogs and exploring potential sites like the drum circle and mine shafts, Kristal’s remains remain undiscovered. Payne's relentless investigation led to collaboration with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI) Cold Case Homicide Unit, signaling a renewed effort to solve the case (1:40:22).

Potential Breakthroughs
Recent emails from a retired CBI Agent hinted at significant updates and new evidence surface. "A witness came forward and claims to have audio and video evidence of what happened," Payne reveals (1:45:00). This development provides a glimmer of hope that Kristal’s whereabouts might finally be uncovered.

Hope for Closure
Payne remains optimistic, stating, "Somebody's going to find Crystal's remains, and then the police are going to have this case solved" (1:50:10). His unwavering commitment underscores the podcast’s mission to bring closure to Kristal's family and the community.

Notable Quotes with Attribution and Timestamps

Payne Lindsay: "People come to Crestone to find peace, to live off the grid, and to connect to something larger than themselves. But it's also a place where secrets can hide." (02:30)
Ora McDonald (Landlord): "It looked like she had just stepped out and never came back." (07:45)
Friend: "She could see right through you." (15:30)
Rodney (Stepfather): "I'll sell everything I own if it means finding her." (55:05)
Akasha (Daughter): "Mommy's cold in a cave, we need to go find Mommy." (50:10)
Catfish John: "I have nothing to do with harming her in any way whatsoever." (25:50)
Catfish John: "If you want to kill me, your ass is going to jail." (1:12:30)
Payne Lindsay: "Somebody's going to find Crystal's remains, and then the police are going to have this case solved." (1:50:10)

Conclusion

"Kristal Reisinger: Part 1 - Payne Faces Catfish" masterfully intertwines personal narratives, investigative diligence, and the eerie backdrop of Crestone to present a compelling true-crime story. Payne Lindsey's dedication to uncovering the truth provides listeners with a detailed exploration of Kristal's disappearance, setting the stage for subsequent episodes that promise to bring resolution to this haunting case. As Payne and his team continue their search, the episode leaves audiences on the edge of their seats, eager to follow the unfolding investigation.

End of Summary

Transcript

Payne Lindsay (0:01)

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Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening. Is this being recorded? Yes, I'm done. Crestone, Colorado, a town unlike any other. Nestled in the Sang de Cristo Mountains. It's a place of raw beauty and powerful energy. With no building codes, no street lights, it feels like a different world. The closest policeman when you pick up a phone and dial 911 is in Saguache, a 45 minute drive away. So for the first 45 minutes that you're dealing with some nutcase, you're on your own. People come to Crestone to find peace, to live off the grid, and to connect to something larger than themselves. But it's also a place where Secrets can hide. She really, really wanted to succeed at something. Excuse my friends. Some fucking piece of shit took that away from her. For Crystal Reisinger, Prestone was supposed to be a sanctuary. In 2016, she moved there, hoping to heal, to align her energy with the earth, and to build a better future for herself and her young daughter, Akasha. And what's your name? Akasha. I see it right here. Right here near the mic. My name is Akasha. Crestone became the last place she was ever seen. This is the story of Crystal Reisinger. Her life, her disappearance, and the investigation that uncovered the dark secrets of a town and the people who live there. The minute you drive into town and buy a soda at the deli, just about everybody knows you're there. And when you ask the first question about Crystal, 10 more people know you're there. In another hour, 100 people know you're there. They really monitor outsiders. I got the feeling people didn't like me there asking questions. Crystal was more than just a missing person. She was a mother, a daughter, and a friend. A deeply spiritual woman with piercing blue eyes and a magnetic personality, she drew people to her effortlessly. Friends described her as empathetic, intuitive, and full of life. She could see right through you. But Crystal's life wasn't without struggles. She had endured trauma, battled addiction, and navigated a of challenges that many couldn't have survived. Despite it all, she remained a devoted mother to her daughter Akasha. In 2016, she wanted to start fresh, find peace. And Crestone, with its spiritual centers and reputation for healing, seemed like the perfect place. She thought Crestone was her safe place. It warms my heart that you're even considering this. I hope we can find Crystal before I die. Crystal was just a wonderful lost soul, so to speak, but she kept going forward. There is a lot of inconsistencies in the actual last time that she was seen. For some reason, the 13th is the one that sticks with me. July 13, 2016. That's the last time anyone heard from Crystal Reisinger. She made two phone calls that day. One to Eli, the father of her daughter, and one to her landlord, Ora McDonald. After that silence, Crystal's disappearance wasn't reported until July 30th. Nearly two weeks later, Aura, her landlord, went to check on her apartment and found it exactly as Crystal had left it. Everything was still there. They were telling me at that point she was a wild partier and having these parties in her apartment. If she was having such wild parties, the apartment would reflect that, and it did. Not in any way, shape, or form reflect that. It looked like she had just stepped out and never came back. One location kept coming up. The full moon drum circle, a local gathering that took place on July 18. Witnesses claimed Crystal had been there, dancing and drumming like everyone else. But here's where the timeline becomes strange. Crystal was last heard from on July 13, but the drum circle wasn't until July 18. What happened in those missing five days? Where was Crystal, and who was she with? These were questions Payne, Lindsay and the up and vanish team would spend months trying to answer. Crestone is a place of contrasts. It's home to more than 15 spiritual centers, Buddhist temples, Hindu ashrams, and meditation retreats. You paint such an interesting picture of this town. Crestone. It's a tale of two worlds. Well, what we found is that it's really a peaceful, meditative place, and thousands of new age religious seekers from all over the world have come there. But, you know, there's a real dark side there. The drug culture is strong and a very thin police force. But crestone also has a darker side. There's a huge mess scene here. It's a place where people come to get away, but some people never escape. There's just something really, really strange about this whole deal. They're undermanned and underfunded, and, I don't know. I want to trust them. But, boy, I tell you, things are starting to chip away here. Boy, it's easy to get lost up in all this. I find myself going different directions all the time. Crystal was drawn into that darker side and began associating with people who would later become suspects in her disappearance. These guys that she was hanging out with, everyone said they were bad news. I think she was in with a back crowd, and I think she knew it. I think the people that were in Crystal's life at the very end were dangerous, are dangerous because they're still out there. Kind of creepy to live in a community and not know if that perpetrator is one of your neighbors. One of the most haunting revelations came directly from crystal. Just weeks before she disappeared, she told her landlord, ora, that she had been drugged and raped at a party in creston. She was planning to report her attackers, but crystal never got the chance. Witnesses told us she went to confront one of her attackers, Catfish. One night after we'd met up, I went home. I have a TV because someone gave me one. I hardly ever watch it. That night, I came home, and for some reason, I flipped the TV on, and it was on channel 12. And a concert was just starting, and it was one that had been recorded here in Denver, and it was Nitty Gritty Dirt Band. Well, you have to be old to know who they are, first of all. And they just stepped up on the stage. Just as I turned the TV on, they start their first song. And it was a song that probably no one in the world, unless they were as old as me, would have known. Mama said don't go now near that river don't be hanging around old Catfish junk But come the morning I'd always be there Walking in his footsteps in the sweet delta dawn Mama said don't go down to the river and stay away from Catfish John. And I'm like, don't go down to the river. I'm like, there's something going on here. The only other band that ever did that song was the Grateful Dead. Well, that was her favorite band. The guy, his name is Catfish John. That's what they call him. What the fuck? You tell me that? She didn't tell me to turn that TV on and hear that song Catfish John. What the hell are the chances of that? A billion to one. I knew it was something from her. We certainly know who Catfish is. And I know that Catfish and his friend have been spoken to by Detective have you ever dreamed of stepping into a mystery novel and solving a case yourself? Let me introduce you to June's Journey, an enchanting hidden object game that lets you do just that. Right now, I'm deep into chapter 12, unraveling clues to uncover the truth behind June's sister's mysterious death. And let me tell you, the story is packed with twists and turns that keep me coming back from for more. And my favorite part, the stunning hidden object scenes that transport me to the roaring 1920s. Imagine searching for clues on a Parisian sidewalk or in an opulent New York parlor. It's like stepping back in time. I love playing when I need a break during my day. 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Catfish had a reputation. People said he locked Crystal in his house and wouldn't let her leave. An anonymous tip sent to the sheriff's department described seeing Catfish on the night of Crystal's disappearance. He was standing outside his house in the rain next to his van with a shovel and a human sized bundle. It was suspicious enough to report, but nothing ever came of it. Catfish claimed Crystal had come to his house around his birthday, but his account was vague and inconsistent. He said they drank wine, smoked marijuana and watched movies. Then he fell asleep and woke up to find her gone. Still, his name came up over and over again. The up and Vanish team spent months in Cresto piecing together Crystal's story. Payne Lindsay tracked down key players, including Catfish. Hello, brother. Hey, man. Is this John? Yeah. Hey, this is Payne. Are you recording this? Yes, I'm recording this. That's Smarties. Listen, you understand my frustration isn't that I got some kind of Angela against you or something? Like I don't have that kind of mentality. What I've got is I lived there for 17 years. Why would I hurt the girl? I barely knew her. She's a rainbow sister. It's my job to protect her. Why are you doing this? And why is this happening to me? I have a podcast called up and Vanished and it's about missing persons. Oh, Hellenesu. Here's how you know I'm innocent. I have yet to take the time to listen to one word of one podcast. You see what I'm saying, friend? First of all, there's been no crime. What happened to Chris Hub? I don't know. I've told the cbi, the bureau, and the locals all I can possibly give them. And more. Dready Brian. Brian did admit to doing something, but he could have been saying it to be funny or something like that. He's a weird kid, but he basically said he confessed and he did it. However, that I'm not able to get involved in that. I'm guessing because that's called a federal investigation I would be interfering in. So unless you have some kind of, like, large amount of money. Are you still friends with Brian? No. Why would I be friends with someone after they said Something like that. Why aren't you friends with me? He said that he done something that I would be completely against doing. Which was what? Look, this is my interview of you. Sir, this is not your interview of me. Respectfully. I hear your canvas, you're a good canvasser. You'd be great going door to door with Kirby. I do not mean to offend you. I am only. You're welcome to ask me questions. I'll answer any question. Listen to me. Turn your recorder off if you want, then that'd be my question. But secondly, you're not gonna do that. And third, I had nothing to do with this. Why would I tell you something that I wouldn't tell any of my friends? Why would I do something like this to begin with? What is it? And this hasn't even necessarily. Hopefully nothing's happened. She's been missing five times before and shown up at Disneyland. Maybe we should check. Disneyland? I'm asking you, have you been slandering me on live podcast for money? No, I've never slandered you. I've only spoken the facts and the truth. I learned about your name because of the police report. Crystal was at your house around your birthday, correct? I'm not answering your questions like that, sir. Okay, who's that in the background? Considering you're again asking me to interfere with a. With a federal investigation. I'm working with the family. Her daughter, Rodney, Amy. All these people, Mikey, they all want to know what happened to Crystal. And you're the last person to see her as we know. They know me and they know I didn't do anything. I have nothing to do with harming her in any way whatsoever. And you need to understand that if you're ever going to talk politely. On June 28 in 2016, Crystal said that she was raped at your house. Is that true? She did not say this. Yes, he did. Said it to Ara, said it to Eli. It's not true. What happened that night? What night? June 28, 2016. Went and picked Crystal up from your house in the middle of the night? No, actually she was scared of him and she left him to come for safety. Now I sound like I'm saying some shit here, so I'm just gonna stop. But that's the truth. From me to you. That's what happened. Why would she make that up? Because that little pink haired freak was. Why would Crystal make that up? I wasn't even there then. That was the week after my birthday. No, that's July. Come on. June 28th. Also, you know what sir, do you want to cut the check today or do you want to cut this check later? Because honestly, you're making some up and falsely accusing me of it. I know both of them and for a fact, they did not tell you that. You're saying they said things that they did not say. I recorded people who told me that Crystal said that she was raped at your house on June 28, and I did the Roswell Incident with the 16 gauge in 1920. Crystal's disappearance didn't just devastate her family. It left the entire Crestone community shaken. For many residents, the thought of living among the people responsible is haunting. Crystal's daughter. Akasha has provided some of the most chilling moments of this case. Mommy's cold in a cave, she told her family. We need to go find Mommy. Her stepfather, Rodney, refuses to give up hope. I'll sell everything I own if it means finding her, he said. This story isn't over. Crystal's landlord, Ara McDonald, tells the Fox31 Problem Solvers she listened to Crystal's cell phone messages, hoping to find clues. There were a few things that were really sketchy. Crystal's last message was reportedly from a local man with a felony criminal history of assaulting and drugging a victim. Records show Crystal never made a police report, but Saguache County Sheriff Dan Warwick has not ruled out silencing her as a possible motive for foul play. She was very disturbed, very upset. She told me people had drugged and raped her. The guys that are directly involved in Crystal's rape have strong ties in a drug market that goes back and forth directly from Crestone to Denver. Crystal had made the decision to do something about it. She wanted them to be accountable for their actions. And that's when she went missing. I strongly believe she was murdered by these guys. Crystal Ann Risinger left the busy city life in search of religious enlightenment, hoping that Crestone Colorado's spiritual centers would bring her happiness and peace. But this mother of a five year old daughter, who is described as loving, kind and generous, disappeared without a trace on July 13, 2016. Well, now the host of the popular podcast up and Vanished, Payne Lindsay is looking into Crystal's disappearance, hoping to break this cold case open. Payne, thank you for being here. Thank you for doing what you do. This podcast up and vanished. Where are you on this right now? We found the people that we're looking for. Crystal Reisinger was more than a missing person. She was a mother, a daughter, and a friend. Her disappearance isn't just a mystery. It's a tragedy. But it's also a story of resilience, of a family and a team of investigators determined to find the truth. Payne, Lindsay and the up and Vanish team have been working on this case for years, even after the podcast ended. A new piece of information here is that a witness came forward and said what? This individual came to me and claims to have audio and video evidence of what happened. And there was multiple people there. So they all knew about it, and they all got rid of her body. What did he say happened to the body? I heard that she was burned up in Crestone. It's not uncommon for somebody to go up hiking and be overdue coming home or coming back. After she went missing, her friends were coming around looking for her, and all of them were all saying that she had to be at Catfish's. There were actually people convinced that she was being held there and that she was still there. It's either Catfish did something or Catfish is connected to people who did something to her, and they're all part of that group. Is he still in town? No, he skipped town around the time when the podcast came out. And then his house was gutted, and they even removed the windows. According to the police, Catfish had gutted his house out and cleaned everything, bleached everything, got rid of all of his computers and got rid of all kinds of stuff. We scoured that whole area in the drum circle. There was a creek with the running water, and we stopped in there, and it sends chills down my spine because Akasha actually said, mommy is here, and she wants us to find her Catfish. John, that name is all over this case. The question isn't really whether he had anything to do with her disappearance. He's already admitted that he is one of the last people to have seen Crystal. He is involved. He can't tuck his way out of that. He's somehow involved. Somebody's going to find Crystal's remains, and then the police are going to have this case solved. There's going to be evidence there. They already have a short list of suspects. I think she's out there. After up and Vanished Season two concluded, Payne and the up and Vanished team returned to Crestone once again. This time, they weren't just there to ask questions. They brought in a team of search dogs. For days, they combed through Crestone, up and down every trail, through the thick brush, searching for anything that might point to what happened. Crystal Reisinger. But in the end, nothing was found. Do you have a. Like, on a map? Anywhere you could show me? Well, if you Go up to where the jump circle is. There's the North Crestone Campground. You go over that bridge. Yes. You cross that string left and you can't miss it. I think she's down in there. Attention sports enthusiasts. Keep the adrenaline pumping and elevate your game day with Chumba Casino. It's completely free to play. No purchase necessary. Whether you're cheering from the stands, on the move or relaxing at home, Chumba Casino brings the thrill of social casino directly to your fingertips. Experience the ultimate social casino adventure with reels of casino style games offering hundreds of exciting options to choose from and fresh new releases every week. There's always something new and thrilling to explore. 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We don't know what's true and what's not true, you know, But I think it's something that we should definitely check up today. We want to search three places of interest. The first is the drum circle area. The second spot is actually on the same road. This was a tip that was sent to me from a friend of Crystal's named Phoebe. Okay, great. So what I can promise you guys is that at the end of this day, we will know more about this case than we did at the beginning of the day. Hey, it's clear. Okay, clear. So as you saw that he went directly up there, went toward the opening, came out smell around there, and then came back down. It's that quick? So if there was human remains sent in that area, he would have continued working it, and he did none of those. So it's been cleared. We can now mark it off the list and move on to other areas. Okay, good boy. So I think this rock face right here is the tip the guy was talking about. There's a mine shaft over here. This is the general area. We've crossed the river, so let's see what happens. A crew from the popular national podcast up and vanished. Hunting for new clues as to Reisinger's whereabouts, they brought a search and rescue cadaver to check out the last place Risinger was seen alive in July of 2016. The dog also checked out a few of the mine shafts. Fox31, problem solvers, found accessible. Anything in that hole, the scent is going to be pulled outside to this area, crawling through dozens of open shafts, most of which have never been searched by police. So we'll check over here. How's it looking back there? Let me check around the bend. Chance, let's go. Let's go. Nothing over there. Okay, I see an opening right here. Hey, guys. Hey. Yeah, I'm over here. We're coming to you. Looks like it's some type of altar. It's kind of weird. It is strange, but nothing from chance? No, nothing at all. This area, the lead that you had, we can mark it off the list Now, I still consider this a productive day. Very productive day. A few years after up and vanished, season two concluded, Payne arranged an in person meeting with Catfish John in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, man, it's Payne. I'm at Honeycutt Park. I'm here a little bit early. That's my car. I drove in. Just me. Right now there's no one here, but I'd love to sit down and talk to you, man. Just me and you. Come on, let me Show. They agreed to meet at a park. Payne showed up and waited and waited, but Catfish never showed up. So he called him. What are you doing, John? Let's go. I'm gonna try calling him. Hey, dude, I'm already here in the park. I've got a lot of frustrations. The whole being falsely accused was, like, one of the only worst things I could think of. People said that Crystal was last seen with you. That's where it all started. I want your honesty, so I'm saying do not be honest with me. In his police report, she was last seen at your house around your birthday. And you told me that. Which is true because you said she went somewhere else, though, afterwards. How do you believe she's alive, dear? Dude, how can you think she's not? There is so because the evidence doesn't point that way. There is no evidence. Point the other way. Except for the fact that she ain't dead. That kind of makes sense to me. How do you know for sure she's not dead? See, like this. Oh, can't see me. Am I dead? I mean, what's your evidence that proves she's alive, man? If she is, then why haven't you found her yet? That's like this. I have people telling me to prove my innocence. No, I'm saying prove she's alive. Let's find her. It's about Crystal. It's not about you. Let's find Crystal. Find her. She doesn't want to be found because it's not safe, so she's hiding and doesn't want to be found. But she's alive and she left her daughter. Why would she ever leave her daughter, man? That makes no sense. Come on, man. You said you would meet with me, man. I did not say I would meet with you. You always told me that you wanted to meet with me. You said no more Facebook, no more phone calls. To meet in person, man to man. Come to. Come to this bar I'm at, man. Give me five minutes. Five minutes. I'll meet you there. After some back and forth, Catfish finally agreed to meet, but at a bar down the street instead. For his safety, Payne chose a booth on the outdoor patio, a hidden microphone under his shirt, and cameras rolling from a parking lot on the hill above. She was at your house. Then she left, though, right? Yeah, she left with her. She left with the guy. Was she ever at your house, drugged out to the point where she was unconscious? Ever? Why do you think she told Nathan that she thinks that she was raped at your house? First of all, I don't know this. And because she was probably cheating on, as her boyfriend, as my guest, she probably scared of him. She's a creepy ass kid. Is there any chance that someone shot her inside your house and it wasn't you? It wasn't you? No, absolutely not. That's what I'm saying. Not. Not any time during which I lived there or. How do you think I can find her? Is she to be found at all? I hope she's alive and well. How can you believe that Brian killed her and at the same time also believe he's alive? You have to pick one. If you have any homies you grew up with, you don't talk with no more. Yeah, you don't want to see him engaged. So are you protecting him? If you had this information, you were so concerned about what people are thinking about you, why not put this out there? I did. You didn't. What did Brian's message say again? Did he say that he shot her? I'm not allowed to talk about this? I told you, the CBI said you could put it out. They told me that, but they told me different. Well, they didn't. Can you call him right now and ask him? Who? Joseph Cahill. Absolutely. The great goal is to make me angry. You're doing a good job. Hey, what's up, man? This is Joseph. Hey. This is Paint. Your catfish is at the table with me. He wanted me to call you for a second. Yep. I'm in North Carolina. We're just here at a pub talking and we were discussing the Facebook message of Ryan sent to John. And you told me that he could release it and he said that you said otherwise. I didn't say he said. I didn't say he said. I've been advised. So, I mean, it's not my call. But can he release it? Absolutely. If you want to release it, you certainly have my permission to do that. HFP is just trying to help clear things up, man. Just put the Facebook message out. I gave it to the gentleman we're speaking with. He can't release it. Sure he could. The thing thing is it's not going to be usable. You said the CBI wouldn't let you do this, and now they're saying that they will let you do this. And now you're saying you still don't want to do my words. And that's when you up around got me all set again. Because you got this thing. You think you're going to out psychologically or something? I just called your bluff, dude. That's literally all that happened. Yes. You said the CBI said that you couldn't release this. And I just called Joseph right now, and he's on the phone, on the speaker phone here. You certainly can release it. He's trying to bring the truth. That's all it is, bro. Do you know what happened? Why she might be on the run, that kind of thing. Crystal on the run? Yeah. How do we know that? How do you not know that? I ain't seen a lot of my friends in six months, and I don't assume they're dead. Well, Joseph, I think we're. We're good here at the moment, but if we need to call you back, we will. Okay. You guys take care, all right? All right. See you, man. Thank you. So, I mean, you said you can release it. I don't have confirmation. That was Jo. Are you kidding me, man? Do you not recognize his voice? Do you know that I'm actually trying to help? Do you know that? Dude, like, for real? I mean, why would I keep doing. He might believe you. But I also could just reach your phone. Don't say that to me, bro. Don't put your hand in my face again, bro. Put my hand in your face? Get the up out of my bar. At one point, Catfish leaned in, his voice low and threatening. It's hard to make out exactly what he said, but he made one thing clear. If he wanted to, he could reach across the table and strangle pain with his own hands. From there, things escalated fast. Tell the truth, John. Tell the truth. You'll probably feel better, TikTok. Hey, John. If you threaten my life again, your ass is going to jail. You understand that? Is it a joke? Not to me, it's not. Don't you come over here, bro. I said if you threaten my life again. I never did. You didn't. How so? You told me just then that you wanted to kill me. You also pretended to swing at me off dude. Payne's encounter with Catfish John went about as well as anyone could have expected. Then, years later, an unexpected email arrived from the Payne, please call me. Regarding your work on this case, I would like to discuss it with you. Also, retired CBI Agent Joe Cahill sends his regards. Looking forward to speaking with you, Kevin. Colorado Bureau of Investigation, Cold case Homicide unit. Hey, man, it's Payne. Hey, Payne. How are you? My good buddy Joe. Kind of the one who turned me on to call on you, so. Okay. I've recently been reassigned to a cold case homicide unit that CBI started in July at some point. Maybe we could sit down and just discuss the case. Your interviews with Catfish are fascinating to say the least. Calling the Colorado Bureau of Investigation Identification Unit. Our building is on the northeast corner of Kipling Street. Press zero at any time. Behind the scenes, they've been collaborating with the Colorado Bureau of Investigations Cold Case Unit, pushing for answers and justice. We'll have major updates to share. Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional Production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique, Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and Vanity. Set mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media Environment Marketing and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show Notes. For more podcasts like up and Banished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us at Tenderfoot tv. Thanks for listening from the FOX News Podcast Network. I'm Emily Compagno and this is the Fox True Crime Podcast. And I had nothing to do with her disappearance, but people still accuse me of it. I sit down with the people who lived the nightmares. I was in shock. I was just devastated. The investigators who tirelessly worked on the case, I feel for their families and I really hope that they can catch this guy bringing you closer to the story than you ever thought possible. Listen and follow now@foxnewsodcasts.com or wherever you get your podcasts.