Payne Finds Jon... again

Summary

Up and Vanished: Payne Finds Jon... Again – Detailed Summary

Released on May 15, 2025 by Tenderfoot TV

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Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "Payne Finds Jon... Again," host Payne Lindsey delves deeper into the mysterious disappearance of Florence Okpealuk, an Alaska Native, by focusing on John Gurton—the last known person to see her alive. This episode captures Payne's relentless pursuit of the truth, highlighting the complexities and challenges of investigating cold cases in remote areas. Through a series of determined steps, Payne navigates through dead ends, unexpected interactions, and startling breakthroughs in his quest to uncover what truly happened to Florence.

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Background

John Gurton, also referred to as Jon or John Girton in various instances, is a pivotal figure in the disappearance of Florence Okpealuk. Payne Lindsey initially discovered John under a fake identity on Facebook, which led to a series of elusive interactions. John possesses Florence's phone and personal items, making him a key person of interest in the case. However, his mysterious behavior and lack of cooperation have made it increasingly difficult for Payne to extract any substantial information.

Notable Quote:

"No matter how many different ways you look at Florence's case, it always, always goes back to John." – Payne Lindsey [02:22]

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Payne's Attempts to Locate John

Payne's journey to find John begins with attempting to establish communication. His first approach involves reaching out via the phone number John provided, which frustratingly led to a blocked line and unhelpful responses.

Notable Quote:

"The number John gave me was blocked. Or a fax number. I don't know, but of course it was." – Payne Lindsey [03:53]

Undeterred, Payne contacts a local homeless shelter in Ketchikan, hoping to gather more information about John's whereabouts. During his call, he speaks with Ty, a shelter representative, who confirms that John is not currently a client.

Notable Quote:

"I can't give out any information if someone is staying with us or not. Just as a heads up." – Ty, Shelter Representative [04:25]

Payne then reaches out to the Ketchikan Police Department, only to find no records of John Gurton being in their system beyond an arrest for violating a restraining order on January 15, 2025. This dead end raises more questions about John's current status and his connection to the disappearance.

Notable Quote:

"John was arrested in Ketchikan. Currently out on bail." – Payne Lindsey [07:33]

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Engaging a Process Server

Recognizing the difficulty in contacting John directly, Payne enlists the help of Clyde, a professional process server familiar with the local area. The plan is to have Clyde deliver a prepaid phone and a note to John in a manner that ensures he receives the message while maintaining safety and professionalism.

Notable Quote:

"I need to find a way to send a safe, professional person. A private investigator, a process server, somebody on my behalf to go to John's door, hand him a burner phone and tell him to call me." – Payne Lindsey [09:25]

Clyde takes action by purchasing a prepaid phone and adhering to Payne's instructions. However, Payne harbors concerns about the phone potentially being handed to someone other than John.

Notable Quote:

"You have to find a way to send a safe, professional person... Somebody on my behalf to go to John's door, hand him a burner phone and tell him to call me." – Payne Lindsey [09:25]

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Discovery of John's Car

A breakthrough occurs when a listener from Ketchikan provides Payne with pictures and a video of what is believed to be John's car—a beat-up, white 1990s Subaru Outback. Payne works to confirm the authenticity and exact location of the vehicle.

Notable Quote:

"I sent her two pictures in a video." – Payne Lindsey [14:24] "It's white and it's looking like it's worse for wear and tear. And it's obvious that somebody is likely living in there." – John Gurton [14:27]

Through further investigation, Payne learns from another listener that John's car was spotted at a local McDonald's, providing a tangible lead in the search.

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Confrontation at McDonald's

With renewed hope, Payne coordinates with Clyde, who arrives at the McDonald's to deliver the prepaid phone to John. The encounter is tense and filled with uncertainty. John initially claims to be someone named Ted, confusing Payne and Clyde, but eventually identifies himself as John Gurton.

Notable Quote:

"I was just driving by an early 90s Subaru Outback." – John Gurton [14:17] "You are a murderer. And I've got federal credentials..." – John Gurton [20:30]

During the interaction, John shares fragmented stories about being accused of murder, denying involvement, and discussing vague details about his past. The exchange leaves Payne with more questions than answers, emphasizing John's evasive nature.

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Final Attempts for Clarity

Post-confrontation, Payne reflects on the interaction, listening to recordings of his conversations with John. Determined to push forward, he decides to make one last attempt to get John to speak openly.

Notable Quote:

"This is the closest I'd been to him in months." – Payne Lindsey [22:58]

Payne reaches out once more, engaging in a phone call where he directly questions John about the case. John remains non-committal, reiterating his innocence but providing little substantive information.

Notable Quote:

"I could not fathom how much it would take to even do something, let alone so cleanly." – John Gurton [24:16]

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New Information

Towards the end of the episode, John brings up additional connections regarding another missing person, Joseph, and hints at his brother's involvement. This revelation suggests potential overlaps or broader connections within the series of disappearances Payne is investigating.

Notable Quote:

"My brother on my dad's side... I really think he knows something about the truck. Joseph's truck." – John Gurton [30:25]

Payne acknowledges this new lead, indicating that the investigation is expanding and more complexities are emerging.

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Conclusion

As the episode concludes, Payne remains resolute in his mission to uncover the truth behind Florence Okpealuk's disappearance. Despite the myriad challenges and the enigmatic nature of John Gurton, Payne's dedication underscores the relentless pursuit of justice that defines the "Up and Vanished" series.

Final Thoughts:

"This isn't just about finding John. It's about finding out who John really is and what, if anything, he had to do with Flo's disappearance." – Payne Lindsey [30:25]

Payne also teases future developments, suggesting that the investigation is far from over and promising listeners further updates in upcoming episodes.

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Key Takeaways

• Persistence in Pursuit: Payne Lindsey exemplifies determination in unraveling complex cold cases, even when faced with elusive suspects and limited information.

• Community Involvement: The episode highlights the importance of community support and listener contributions in advancing the investigation.

• Evolving Investigations: New leads and unexpected revelations can significantly alter the direction and scope of cold case investigations.

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Stay Tuned: For more updates and future developments in the case of Florence Okpealuk, follow Payne Lindsey on Instagram @PayneLindsay and @UpAndVanished. The next episode promises to delve deeper into the mystery, uncovering new evidence and potentially shedding light on long-held secrets.

Transcript

[John Gurton]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast. Good morning, Facebook Oregon John, AKA Lechon John. No, I didn't. I was trying to go and tell you to get out of my way because you won't listen. Reason cuz you're too drunk and don't belong to sleep. Yeah, well, you know what? You're still watching. I'll make you through. No, you are.

[Payne Lindsay]

Holy moly. He just sent me a video of himself charging handle.

[John Gurton]

Oh, yeah. Oh, baby. Oh, my shoulder. Holy. That's a monster.

[Payne Lindsay]

Jesus. We all know how I first found John. With a fake name through a fake Facebook. I did, however, eventually reach out to John as the real me. All I want is the truth. John.

[John Gurton]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yes, this is Payne Lindsay.

[John Gurton]

Okay. Payne Lindsey.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm the podcast guy.

[John Gurton]

Oh.

[Payne Lindsay]

How'S it going?

[John Gurton]

Same shit, different day.

[Payne Lindsay]

Question for you. Would you ever be down to sit down one on one and just talk to me about everything? We can set the terms and, you know, make it comfortable for both of us. You know?

[John Gurton]

You know, all I'd have is the truth. You know, that's it.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, let's talk about that.

[John Gurton]

We'll talk and we'll set something up. I'd appreciate this. Got some stories for you. You have no idea.

[Payne Lindsay]

He appreciated this. And honestly, I did too. But this is the last time I spoke to John. On my last call, he gave me his real number. He said he wanted to tell me his truth. But then, nothing. He vanished again. And that's the thing about Oregon John. He doesn't just disappear. He seems to evade, mutate. He only becomes harder to find and harder to trust. And when he does show up again, you're never really sure who you're talking to. John Guertin isn't just some sketchy name that came up once. He is the last known person to see Florence Okpialik alive. He had her phone, her things in his tent, and somehow he slipped through the cracks. He made wild accusations the first time I tracked him down, last year. And even then, I walked away thinking, who is this man? What the hell am I really dealing with? No matter how many different ways you look at Florence's case, it always, always goes back to John. So in classic up and vanished fashion, I found myself in a deja vu state, starting all over again. It was hard enough to find John the first time. This time surely was not going to be easier.

[John Gurton]

Call has been for.

[Payne Lindsay]

Is it your fax number? I'm so sick of this. The number John gave me was blocked. Or a fax number. I Don't know, but of course it was. So what do I do? I first called the homeless shelter in Ketchikan.

[John Gurton]

Hi, this is Ty.

[Payne Lindsay]

I called the shelter and I was given your number. I guess if I had additional questions. I'm trying to locate one of my friends who I think may be staying there.

[John Gurton]

So I can't give out any information if someone is staying with us or not. Just as a heads up. I wouldn't be able to confirm or deny, you know, if I did give it to him or anything like that. So. So what is the person's name you're looking for?

[Payne Lindsay]

His name is John Girton.

[John Gurton]

Okay, hold on. John Gurton. One second. Let me look at something really quick. One second. So I can actually say that he is not staying with us. He is currently not a client with us.

[Payne Lindsay]

Is there anywhere else in town that is a similar establishment where he may be?

[John Gurton]

No, no, we're the only shelter in town. Unfortunately. If it's to the point of like a missing persons thing, you could contact our police department.

[Payne Lindsay]

Missing persons thing. Kind of ironic, but I guess John was missing too. He isn't a missing person per se. I would. I would qualify it more like a hiding person.

[John Gurton]

Okay, yeah, yeah, I get you. I was trying to remember why the name sounded so familiar. And I do recall that there was a big flub up. It was a while ago, sometime last year. And his name was splashed across Facebook. Keshe can related things podcast. And I do know that every once in a while his name pops back up on those things because people were pretty concerned about him, obviously. And I feel like there was some reports of some at least peculiar behavior, if not concerning behaviors.

[Payne Lindsay]

That's interesting.

[John Gurton]

I would definitely keep an eye on.

[Payne Lindsay]

My ketch and community news, but no luck there. On to the next part of my plan. Let's just do what always seems to never work and call the Police Department. 7, 3, 5, 0.

[John Gurton]

You have reached the Ketchikan Correctional Center. For an attendant, press 0. Please spell the offender's first name using your telephone keypad. I'm sorry, I can't find the offender you are searching for.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, that's a whole bunch of shit.

[John Gurton]

Administration, press zero. Booking, press one. Kentucky Can State Correctional Center, Staff Sergeant Bailey. How may I help you?

[Payne Lindsay]

Hey, Sergeant. Billy, how you doing? My name is Payne. I'm trying to locate a man named John Girton and I'm curious if he has been booked.

[John Gurton]

There's been no Guertin here.

[Payne Lindsay]

Do you know the best way to either online or through Your establishment. Find out the records of this.

[John Gurton]

Do you know where he resides?

[Payne Lindsay]

He's in Ketchikan. He's in Ketchikan? Yes.

[John Gurton]

You said his last name was what?

[Payne Lindsay]

It's Girton. It's spelled Garrett. G, E, R, T, O, N. What's his first name? John. Just J, O, N. Okay, so I.

[John Gurton]

Have a John Girton from January 15th of 2025, born in Portland.

[Payne Lindsay]

That's him.

[John Gurton]

That's the last time he was here. And he was released on January 15, arrested for violating a restraining protective order. So his case is not adjudicated. Meaning that he's not been sentenced. The judge hasn't made a formal judgment related to this case. He was arrested at 241 Avenue DoorDash driver looking at this form shows that I fingerprinted him.

[Payne Lindsay]

On January 15, John was arrested in Ketchikan. Currently out on bail.

[John Gurton]

Jesse is a friend. There's his emergency contact with no number associated.

[Payne Lindsay]

Another name, another rabbit hole. Jesse. Jesse. Jesse. Hello? Hey, is this Jesse?

[John Gurton]

No, wrong number.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, bro, you're getting a call back.

[John Gurton]

The mailbox is full and cannot accept any messages. Goodbye.

[Payne Lindsay]

Goodbye to you, too. Was that weird or am I letting my own frustrations get to me here? I didn't like the way that call ended. If John's living with this guy, I need to know that. James? James, can you hear me, man?

[John Gurton]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay. You don't have a brother named Jesse?

[John Gurton]

No.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, My records show that you do. James.

[John Gurton]

Yeah. I don't know who that is. I can't help you.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why not? Why can't you help me? James? Okay, his friend's address, which might be where he lives. Holy. Yes, it is. That's the same place that John wanted me to meet him at months ago. Property detail? Yes, rental Property. Number of residents 19. John Allen Curtin. Got your ass. Now what's the smartest way to get a hold of him? I need to find a way to send a safe, professional person. A private investigator, a process server, somebody on my behalf to go to John's door, hand him a burner phone and tell him to fucking call me.

[John Gurton]

Hi. So I just got off the phone with Otto. He likes to talk. So it took. Took a while. He states that guy doesn't live up there.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is when I brought in Clyde. He's a process server, professional, tactical and most importantly, local. I told him the whole story, everything. He didn't hesitate. Another guy named Jesse. The name John Gurton gave the police as his contact. Very well could be staying with this guy.

[John Gurton]

I know Jesse and his wife and I wouldn't think he'd be staying with them, but so am I.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, at least we have an inn here. I will say that John has a history of doing cab driving. Taxi driving.

[John Gurton]

I've got no problem with, you know, going to the Ketchkan Lake Road and asking Jesse or Crystal, whoever comes to the door. If John's living there.

[Payne Lindsay]

He'S not in trouble for anything. But he promised to have a conversation with me and now I haven't been able to track him down really. I'm trying to make contact with him and give him the means to contact me. At this point, my plan was evolving. I wanted Clyde to find John however possible and give him a package from me inside a simple one page note and a prepaid phone that John can call me on. It wouldn't surprise me if a phone was given to Jesse. Then John comes back home later and John's like, oh yeah, this guy's crazy. Throw that away. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[John Gurton]

So do you want to get me this phone?

[Payne Lindsay]

I first need to give Clyde the actual phone itself, but I am worried about Clyde giving it to anyone else other than John himself.

[John Gurton]

Hey, just to Let you know, AT&T doesn't sell burner phones. AT and T sells prepaid phones at Walmart. Then you take the phone to the AT&T store, they give you a phone number and you pick a plan.

[Payne Lindsay]

You want, any plan, I don't care.

[John Gurton]

I'm gonna drive out to Walmart, figure this whole thing out.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, Clyde's at Walmart.

[John Gurton]

No, I'll pay right now. She's hooking up the prepaid account. It's got both Internet and minutes. She said, I've got this phone, what do you want me to do with it?

[Payne Lindsay]

I actually have a list of instructions that I've just finished writing out for you to keep it very simple.

[John Gurton]

I'll attempt service of him at Jesse's house. I will check the court record where the restraining order was served upon him.

[Payne Lindsay]

Maybe now we're getting somewhere. I hope so.

[John Gurton]

I went to Jesse's house. His wife was home. She was adamant that John has never lived there. She definitely knew who he was. Jesse called me, knew who John was.

[Payne Lindsay]

Any inkling as to where he's staying? Because he has to be sleeping somewhere. He's not nowhere. He's in Ketchikan.

[John Gurton]

He believes he's living in his car.

[Payne Lindsay]

I've seen this car before. I know exactly what it looks like.

[John Gurton]

I'm just driving by a early 90s Subaru Outback.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm sending you two pictures in a video.

[John Gurton]

It's white and it's looking like it's worse for wear and tear. And it's obvious that somebody is likely living in there. Oh yeah, there's a dude in there sleeping. Is there? Somebody humped over in the front seat. So he's either dead or sleep in one or the other.

[Payne Lindsay]

He found a white 90s Subaru, beat up, sun faded, with a man hunched over in the front seat.

[John Gurton]

John. John. Hey. Hey. Look at. Look at me. Are you John? I am. Okay. Wake up. It's okay. What's your name? Ted. Oh, you're Ted. Where'd you get this car from? Okay. Who's your friend? Daniel. Oh, Daniel. Because I thought this was John's car.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[John Gurton]

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[C]

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[Payne Lindsay]

Last year, a listener of up and Vanished who lives in Ketchikan sent me pictures and video of John's car. I need to confirm if this is actually his car or not. And also where those pictures and video were actually taken. Sorry for the random call. If you have two minutes, I'd love to chat. It's kind of urgent. So I texted her and just FaceTimed her. Hell yes.

[John Gurton]

Did you mean to FaceTime me?

[Payne Lindsay]

I did.

[John Gurton]

Okay. I'm like, there's a 310 member calling me. I don't know who it is.

[Payne Lindsay]

It's.

[John Gurton]

And then I said, paying Lindsay. And I'm like, oh, that's that podcast.

[Payne Lindsay]

You're like that guy. How can I help you today? Maybe this listener, a local in Ketchikan, can confirm whether or not this is actually John's car. It's listeners just like her who truly make a difference in these cases. And her willingness to help out of nowhere is the exact energy we need to solve this thing. She FaceTimed in another friend. This lady told me that she saw John's car parked at the local McDonald's. Literally yesterday, she was around the corner from that same McDonald's. So she pulled up.

[John Gurton]

I just ordered some food. I'm sitting at a table. I can see him. He's in that camo coat he's always wearing.

[Payne Lindsay]

Sure enough, there he was, John Gurton, sitting in a chair, eating lunch. We do live on an island and driving around town.

[John Gurton]

And there he was, sitting in McDonald's.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, this situation just went from urgent to frantic. I called Clyde. He's at the McDonald's right now, but he's finishing his meal and he's about to leave. One of our fellow listeners in ketchikan stayed at McDonald's. On the phone with me, John Was getting up, he was done eating. Then he walked out the door. This cannot be how this ends. Clyde, please get there.

[John Gurton]

Hey, John. Oh, geez, you scared me.

[Payne Lindsay]

Sir, Clyde pulls up just in time.

[John Gurton]

Hey, my name's Clyde. Yes. Hey, I was asked to drop this off with you. It's a brand new phone with a. With a node in it. And I was just. Somebody dropped it by my office today and asked me to get it to you. Okay. Somebody thought it be a funny idea. Went on Facebook, on Catch can community cycle that I was a murderer. You're. You're a murderer. And I've got federal credentials. Get murdered some girl in Gnome. Oh, okay. I lived up there for four years with gold miner. I started receiving death threats. People hit me with their car. So I went up to the police. But I mean, you didn't murder. No, no. The police goes, yeah, we already heard about this. We ran a complete investigation. Known police department doesn't even know who you are.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, that's not true. Now he just has to take the package.

[John Gurton]

I got robbed by a homeless person out here and I pressed charges. Well, how do you get robbed by a homeless person? You're a pretty big dude. Looks like you could take care of yourself. It was a female and I don't hit women.

[Payne Lindsay]

Thanks for letting us know. It's funny the way he talks so openly. Clyde shook John's hand and left.

[John Gurton]

Are you ready to talk?

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm ready to talk.

[John Gurton]

Okay. It's all taken care of. He's got the phone and life is grand, I guess. I talked to him for six or seven minutes and he went on about this, that and the other thing. He's going to church, his wife is in the Philippines. I said, well, you know, it's a phone with minutes on it. You're good to go. You know, call whoever you want type thing. There's a note in there for you. Also, he just kept talking. He went on about how he got to town and somebody said he was a murderer. I said, who'd you murder? And he says something about some girl up in Nome. And I said, well, did he murder her? And he goes, no, because I was cleared. But it just went on and on like that.

[Payne Lindsay]

Clyde's job was done. He successfully delivered the package to Oregon John. Hearing the tape from Clyde and John talking felt very reminiscent of my time with John at the local bar. If John Gurton was cleared, I wouldn't even be talking to you today. I know John had the phone. He held it in his hand. I have video of this. Now all I could do is wait. My mind's going in all different directions. Is he reading my letter? What's he going to think? Is this a lifeline? A trap? A test? All three. I want to follow up on my end of the deal, giving John one last chance to clear the air about everything. Despite being thousands of miles away, this was the closest I'd been to him in months. Hello?

[John Gurton]

Hi. This Pain.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is pain. This is John.

[John Gurton]

Yes, sir.

[Payne Lindsay]

So you got the phone?

[John Gurton]

Yeah, I, I, I believe in telling the truth as much as I can remember it or anything. You know what I'm saying?

[Payne Lindsay]

I want to get down to brass attacks again because, yeah, like, I don't want to keep doing this, you know, I, I really reached out to this degree to try to give you a chance to say anything that you wanted or needed to say so that you don't go down as the bad guy.

[John Gurton]

I could not fathom how much it would take to even do something, let alone so cleanly, you know what I mean? That's impossible. How is this where nobody knows nothing, you know what I'm saying? Or no, there's no proof of anything, you know, you know, I mean, I mean, because I, you know, that's what mind boggles me so much. The thing is why? My biggest question is why?

[Payne Lindsay]

What do you mean?

[John Gurton]

Why would somebody choose her?

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[John Gurton]

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[John Gurton]

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Wireless bills and fat wallets. And with premium wireless plans for just 15 bucks a month, you can have both without breaking a sweat or the bank. I've been using Mint Mobile for years now, but with the amount of money they've saved me in that time, consider me a lifelong customer because no other company will ever top what they've been able to do for me and my family, providing us with high speed data, unlimited talk and text, and flawless connectivity at half the cost of what we were paying before this year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans [e-mail] tenderfoot that's mintmobile.com tenderfoot upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees, extra cement Mobile for details he's the last person to see Florence Okpialik alive. He had her phone her things inside his tent. His stories don't make sense. He doesn't have an alibi. He made wild accusations, paranoid rants, rambling stories that didn't line up. He played the victim Claimed he was being framed. And maybe he believes that. Or maybe some of what he's saying is true. That night, I talked to John for hours. And then I hours again the next night. All these calls are recorded, and you're going to get to hear them. And right now, John says he's ready to talk in a different way. In person. Man to man, face to face, to finally tell me his truth. So this week, we're meeting, and hopefully I walk away with the answers I need to solve Florence's case once and for all. But here's the thing with John. Which version of him am I going to get? What version of the truth is he ready to tell? Because this isn't just about finding John. It's about finding out who John really is. And what, if anything, he had to do with Flo's disappearance. Just when I thought I had my hands full with Oregon John, another bombshell dropped.

[John Gurton]

My brother on my dad's side. He was married to Kim Peskoya during the time Joseph went missing. I really think he knows something about the truck. Joseph's truck. But the Piscoias have a good grip on him. He's not coming forward. Every time I bring it up to him. He's very hush hush.

[Payne Lindsay]

I think he parked it.

[John Gurton]

He helped park Joseph's vehicle.

[Payne Lindsay]

I think he didn't know what he.

[John Gurton]

Was even doing at the time. My gut feelings are almost always right. You really need to talk to my brother.

[Payne Lindsay]

Oh, don't worry. We already did. Keep your friends close. Stay tuned for another update this week on when to expect the next episode. But I promise you, the team and I are busting our ass. And our number one priority is that we do this right. I'm meeting with John Gurton this week. In the meantime, you can follow my Instagram for faster updates. My handle is Ayne Lindsay. And the same for up and Vanished at up and Vanished. Talk soon.