Dr. Maurice Godwin (4:25)

Pain. This is Dr. Maurice Godwin. I saw your post about the Tara Grinstead case on Webb Sluice. I worked this case from March of 06 to over past 09, 2009 for her family. And probably other than the GBI, there's no one knows no more about the Tara Grinstead case than myself. So, you know, if you want to give me a call, I can give you a rundown, the straight up truth about what's happening or. And everything about the case. I'm in North Carolina, so I'm on ace Cups time. Okay, you take care.

Payne Lindsay (5:07)

Bye.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (5:08)

Bye.

Payne Lindsay (5:08)

I'm not gonna lie. When I first heard his voicemail, my stomach dropped. I actually thought it was the police and I was somehow in trouble for trying to investigate this case. Turns out he was a private investigator, an actual expert who had worked this case for years. And suddenly, I had my first lead. Hey, this is Payne Lindsay. You called me yesterday.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (5:30)

Yes, Payne, I saw your post on websleuths. I've been working for Tara Glen State case since March of 06. The largest case file in Georgia history is the Tara Grinstead case.

Payne Lindsay (5:41)

Maurice tells me I should go to Ursula, but he gives me a weird little warning.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (5:46)

If you go to Oscilla and have something like that, take somebody else with you.

Payne Lindsay (5:50)

Now take somebody with you.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (5:53)

It's a weird place, okay?

Payne Lindsay (5:56)

At the time, I kind of brushed it off. Now, Yeah, I get it. There were things in that town people did not want me looking into. And trust me, I tried to get my younger brother to go with me. He thought I was nuts. And so my first trip to Ocilla was by myself.

Grandma (6:17)

We're sorry.

Payne Lindsay (6:19)

You have reached a number that is.

Grandma (6:20)

No longer in service.

Narrator/Advertiser (6:22)

Your call has been forwarded to an automated voice.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (6:25)

The number you dialed is not a working number.

Payne Lindsay (6:32)

I had a pretty rough start. I was literally getting every type of non working number message in existence. And when I finally reached some people, it went like this. My name is Payne Lindsay. I wanted to talk to you about the Terror Grinstead case. The terror Grinstead case. A podcast documentary. Don't mind interview. To talk to you about Tara Grinstead. Nothing. Not a single person would talk to me. It was beginning to seem impossible. Everyone surrounding this case had their guard up. Okay, pause this moment. This was the first time I realized it wasn't just a cool podcast project. This was real. I had no idea that this case, this small town mystery, was about to take over my entire life. This small town in south Georgia had become this impenetrable community that just refused to rehash the old wounds. Osila had become this impenetrable community that refused to rehash old wounds. Impenetrable community. Wow. Listen to me. This is where I was still in documentary mode, thinking people were just hesitant to talk. What I didn't realize yet was that some people weren't just hesitant, they were scared. And then there was a phone call. You know the one? The moment someone called me back after I reached out to a friend of Tara's. I couldn't record it at the time, but I'll never forget what the voice on the other end said. Why are you asking about Tara Grinstead? It was almost like he was investigating me now. I told him about the podcast and the documentary, and his tone changed a bit. Then he said, why did you call Susan? I didn't really have an answer for him. Then he said, do not call her again. Click that. That was my first real taste of something isn't right here. That wasn't just someone looking out for a friend. That was someone trying to make sure I stopped looking. Here she is, ladies and gentlemen. I call her your royal highness because I think it is a very nice honor. Tara Grinstead, how are you doing? I'm doing great, Ms. Tifton. Getting ready to go over to Columbus.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (8:40)

And represent T Hifton over there.

Payne Lindsay (8:42)

Are you excited?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (8:43)

Oh, yes, very excited.

Payne Lindsay (8:44)

Well, you are well into your career already too, aren't you? What kind of work do you do?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (8:48)

I'm an 11th grade history teacher at.

Payne Lindsay (8:50)

Irwin County High School and I also.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (8:52)

Have a cheerleading squad of junior varsity cheerleaders, 9th and 10th graders.

Payne Lindsay (8:57)

I just completed my first year teaching and I loved every bit of it. That's a local News interview from 1999, when Tara won the beauty pageant for Miss Tifton, the biggest city near Ocilla, and she was moving on to compete for Miss Georgia. She seemed to have everything going for her. She was popular among her students. All the teachers loved her. But In October of 2005, she would disappear without a trace and never be seen again. Who would want to hurt Tara? Let's recap the night of October 22nd when Tara just completely vanished. I'll have my friend Rob describe the scene.

Rob (9:33)

Saturday, October 22, 2005 Tara went to a beauty pageant during the day and then she attended a friend's barbecue later that night just a couple blocks away from her home. She arrived around 8pm and stayed for a few hours. Friends at the party said she was acting normal, nothing out of the ordinary. Around 11pm Tara told a friend at the party she was going home to watch the videotape from the pageant that day. She said her goodbyes and drove off. She was never seen again. Monday came and Tara didn't show up for work. When the bell rang for class to start and Tara wasn't there, students informed the faculty and they called the local police department. The chief of Ocilla Police, Bill Hancock, was the first to arrive on the scene. Her car was parked in her driveway and the front door was locked. As he approached her front door, Hancock discovered a blue latex glove just feet from her doorstep. Even more puzzling, he found a business card wedged in the front door. The neighbors, an elderly couple, had a spare key to Tara's house. They were really close to Tara and they kept watch on her house at night. They had a little system going. Every night when Tara came home, she turned on the lamp by the window in her room facing their house. That night, Tara's lamp was never turned on. Hancock used the neighbor's key to gain entry to Tara's home. The house was in near perfect condition, but there were a few subtle things that seemed a little off. The lampshade on her bed was knocked askew, tilted in an odd position as if maybe it had been knocked over. The clock normally on her nightstand was found on the floor by her bed. Her cell phone was found sitting in its charger on the nightstand. Hancock quickly realized the severity of this case. He made a call to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation for backup and official investigation was underway.

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Payne Lindsay (13:11)

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Dr. Maurice Godwin (15:05)

Come on in, man.

Payne Lindsay (15:06)

How you doing, man? Come on in. All right.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (15:08)

Come on in.

Payne Lindsay (15:10)

I decided to visit the private investigator in person. I told him I wanted to ask him some preliminary questions about the case for my documentary. And he was more than happy to help. He lives in a small town in North Carolina. And I drove up from Atlanta one afternoon. Are these all notes about the terror case?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (15:33)

Yeah.

Payne Lindsay (15:34)

He had this thick notebook. It was filled with hundreds of notes, thoughts, names, all related to the Terror Grinstead case. He started thumbing through it, reminiscing about the case. Maurice is an older man, gray hair, glasses. You get the sense that this case and many others like it have taken a toll on him. And even he'll tell you it's exhausting. To Maurice, this is not a hobby it's always ever known.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (15:58)

And then in the back, here are some updates and stuff. I was contacted in the end of January of 06 by Tara's sister Anita. I couldn't take it at that time and I actually didn't take the case. Then she contacted me again and I took the case about the end of February and I went down in March. And then I worked on the case. I spent two whole days in the house. We searched a lot of places. There was nothing ever come of anything. And this case is cold as Alaska.

Payne Lindsay (16:37)

So Tara's sister Anita hired Maurice to help with the investigation. And he wasn't involved until March of 2007, almost five whole months after she went missing.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (16:47)

So one of the things that I did when I was there is I, I talked to some of the local. A lot of people clammed up and wouldn't talk.

Payne Lindsay (16:56)

So most people clam up and don't talk in this case.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (16:58)

Oh yeah. And still today it appeared that to, to GBI and some others that were there didn't appear to be a struggle.

Payne Lindsay (17:07)

So they said there was no struggle.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (17:08)

Well, GBI admitted that.

Payne Lindsay (17:10)

What do you think?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (17:10)

Well, this is what I found. See, she had the old timey wooden floors with the gaps in between them. So I got on my, you know, knees and stuff and crawled around. I found a clasp from a necklace.

Payne Lindsay (17:22)

A lesser known fact in this case that I actually learned through Maurice is a broken necklace that was found by police inside her home. The beads were scattered about on the floor and they bagged it up as evidence. But it was still unclear to police if the necklace was broken on accident or or if it meant that there was a struggle inside the home. Almost five months later, when Maurice went to visit Tara's house, he found a clasp on the floor that looked like a match.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (17:45)

And you can see on the clasp have been pulled apart.

Payne Lindsay (17:48)

So based on what you know about the necklace and that clasp, in your opinion, did that necklace come off in a struggle?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (17:56)

That clasp was pulled apart by force. You can take that for what it's worth. Then I found some pieces of broken plastic of the headboard in the master bedroom. The bed post was split in two and broken and was found lying under the middle of the bed. You have to get up. You had to get in there and find it. Then I also found a box with dust on it underneath the bed. So that was never retrieved by the gbi. Then one thing that I noticed is she had a rug beside the bed. I moved, I pulled that rug up and the rubber came off on the back of it. So the rug had never been lifted.

Payne Lindsay (18:36)

So in your opinion, did the GBI do a good job investigating?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (18:40)

Absolutely not.

Payne Lindsay (18:42)

On a scale of 1 to 10, what would you rate the GBI's performance?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (18:46)

Probably 3.

Payne Lindsay (18:47)

3 out of 10.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (18:48)

3 out of 10.

Payne Lindsay (18:49)

Five months later, he finds a whole slew of evidence inside Tara's house that the GBI completely missed. You could sense his frustration still today, but what did any of it mean? I asked him to recap that Saturday Tara went missing. I wanted to know his account. So walk me through the day.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (19:06)

My understanding is that during the daytime she had girls at her house and stuff, helping girls with the Padgetts and the makeup, the hair, preparing for the sweet potato pageant in Fitzgerald that afternoon. I think the pageant started about 3:00 and what I was told. So then she went to the Padget, stayed at the Padget, and then she left the padget around 7:25 to 7:30. One of her padgett girls, named Dana Wilder, walked with Tara to Tara's car and she said that she had to go to her superintendent's barbecue. So she left the Papaget and Fitzgerald and drove back to Asilla. I was told that her landlord, the son of her landlord, Rhett Roberts, I was told that she talked to Rhett out at the curb of the road about probably quarter to eight.

Payne Lindsay (19:58)

Then again, another lesser known fact about this case that you can't find anywhere in news articles. Between leaving the pageant and going to the barbecue that night, Tara made a brief stop at a friend's house, a man named Rhett Roberts, who was actually her landlord's son. And they talked briefly at the curb.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (20:14)

Of the road and then she proceeded on to barbecue and arrived about 8:00. And then at 11:00 she left the barbecue on the notion that she had to go back and watch a video.

Payne Lindsay (20:29)

What video is that?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (20:30)

That would be no video because so far there's never been one that existed that we know of.

Payne Lindsay (20:36)

Remember Tara told her friends at the barbecue that night and she was going home to watch the tape from the pageant that day. The police could never find it. And as far as they knew, no video ever even existed.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (20:46)

There's two types of crime scenes. There's a primary crime scene, that's where the most actions occur between the victim and the attacker. And then there's a secondary crime scene, say where a car was left. The problem with this case is you don't have any secondary crime scene and you don't have any really primary crime scene.

Payne Lindsay (21:02)

You don't even know for sure if the house is.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (21:04)

That's right. The answer lies in the GBI case files in Prairie, Georgia. The answer to this case lies there.

Payne Lindsay (21:12)

Why can't they solve it?

Dr. Maurice Godwin (21:16)

I don't know.

Payne Lindsay (21:19)

Listening back to this now, I can hear how naive I was. But I also hear something else too. My curiosity. Despite my lack of experience, I was determined to find answers, even if I didn't know what I was stepping into. Because back then, Tara Grinstead was still a name on a missing persons report. A decade long investigation that led nowhere. But soon she became someone I thought about every single day. And her case, her story, was all about to crack wide open.

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Payne Lindsay (23:04)

Easy.

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Rob (23:34)

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Payne Lindsay (23:35)

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Rob (23:38)

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With the new Maverick Performance Blazer. This blazer is sharp and wrinkle resistant so you can travel anywhere with it. Just throw it in your bag and it will remain wrinkle free. It even comes with security zip pockets, a sunglasses loop, and an optional pocket Square. So visit collarsandco.com and use code TIKI for 20% off@collarsandco.com on my drive back to Atlanta, I played our interview on repeat, analyzing every detail. And when I got home, I caught my first lucky break. Someone was finally willing to talk to me.

Grandma (24:20)

Hey, how are you?

Payne Lindsay (24:21)

I'm good. How you doing?

Grandma (24:23)

I'm doing well. I had a little problem with my back, but thank the Lord it's getting better.

Payne Lindsay (24:28)

Awesome. Are you still walking every day?

Grandma (24:30)

Yeah.

Payne Lindsay (24:34)

That'S my grandma, but she's lived in Tifton, which is only a half hour from Ocilla for nearly half her life. Maybe she knew something.

Grandma (24:44)

So I'm looking forward to seeing y'all. We're gonna bring pound Cake and some cowboy cookies.

Payne Lindsay (24:49)

Yes, I need some more cowboy cookies asap.

Grandma (24:52)

Okay. That's what I'm baking right now. But you heard the bell.

Dr. Maurice Godwin (24:56)

Go.

Payne Lindsay (24:57)

Oh, perfect.

Grandma (24:58)

First batch.

Payne Lindsay (24:59)

Fresh ones.

Grandma (25:00)

Fresh one. Fresh. Okey dokey, Dawn.

Payne Lindsay (25:03)

All right, well, I wanted to ask you something.

Grandma (25:06)

Okay.

Payne Lindsay (25:07)

So I'm working on this new documentary, and it's actually about this girl who went missing about 10 years ago in the town of Oscilla. Her name was Tara Grinstead. Do you ever remember hearing about that?

Grandma (25:20)

I do. I certainly do. And it's, you know, Cilla is only about 25 to 30 minutes from here.

Payne Lindsay (25:28)

What do you remember about that as far as, like, what were people saying when that happened?

Grandma (25:32)

I'll ask around a few people that might remember. In fact, I'll call my friend who lives in Osella. Okay. She'll know. I'll call right now.

Payne Lindsay (25:43)

Awesome.

Grandma (25:44)

I'll call you back. Okay.

Payne Lindsay (25:45)

Okay, that sounds great.

Grandma (25:46)

Okay. All right, bye.

Payne Lindsay (25:47)

Bye. And sure enough, 10 minutes later.

Grandma (25:50)

All right, my friend's name, her first name is Melva. M E L B A. That is her first name. Okay, let me tell you what she did. Tell me. I'll tell you right quick. She was a school teacher, and on the Saturday that this happened, there was a beauty pageant in Fitzgerald, Georgia. Now, Fitzgerald is like 15 minutes away. And there. There was a beauty pageant on that Saturday at, you might know this, at like 3:00. She went to help the girls put their makeup on and that sort of thing. Right when the pageant was over. My friend that I just talked to, Melvie, she talked to her at 6pm at the theater.

Payne Lindsay (26:42)

Really?

Grandma (26:42)

Melva said when she left the theater, Tara was still at the back of the theater with a friend. Tara did leave and went to visit a friend in Fitzgerald. In fact, it was a student that she had talked for just a short time. And then from there she went back to Osella, to her principal's house, because he had a cookout that night.

Payne Lindsay (27:08)

Man, I could have never imagined that my actual grandma would be the one to drop a bombshell on me on an unsolved missing persons case I was investigating for my true crime podcast. But sure enough, she did. I'm pretty sure she had no idea I was recording our conversation. I did eventually tell her, but seriously, listening back to the very first episode of up and Vanished, the very first cliffhanger ever, and it's my grandma. It's kind of surreal. That was episode one of up and Vanished, season one, the very beginning. And now I'm going to take you through every single season revisiting everything. What I got right, what I got wrong, what's changed since then. And here's the deal, A lot has changed since then. What you don't know and you're about to find out is that in every single case of up and vanished, we've always continued investigating. I've been talking to the cbi, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, in Crystal Reisinger's case for over four years, and I recorded all of it. With their permission, I've talked to the FBI in Ashley Loring Heavy Runner's case. There are major new leads tape I've previously recorded that didn't make sense back then, but makes a whole lot of sense now in a brand new sense of urgency and a call to the public, you guys, even as listeners, to help us solve these cases. There's a lot of things about Ryan Duke's trial that I never told you. Just from my personal experience at the time, I truly did not want to get in the way of the justice system doing its job. That's why the only time I ever appeared in the actual courtroom was on the very last day when they read the verdict. But, wow, do I have some stories for you. So each week, we're diving back into every season, starting with season one. And look, I know it's a whole lot of information, so I'm going to make it easy for you. Whether you've binged all these seasons recently or you heard them years ago or you're hearing all this for the first time, we're going to recap everything in a very clean way so I can give you a real update and call to action to help us solve these cases. This is eight years of work, audio you've never heard and insights from me that I've never shared. And all of this is leading up back to season four in the Midnight Sun. I've also spent several months going through all my old phones, hard drives, everything I can find, and dug up old footage of me and the team investigating these cases. Over the years, we've also filmed a whole bunch of new stuff that shows you exactly where we are in our investigations into the disappearance of Florence Okpialik and Joseph Balderas in season four. So I encourage you to go check out my Instagram, which is aynelensay and Pnvanished. If you want to see some visuals with what you're hearing, it'll be worth your while. And to dispel the mystery, I'm going to give you the release schedule of every episode coming up right now so you know exactly what to expect. The season recaps begin today. Next Friday, February 21st, we're releasing a very robust episode that recaps you on the entire season one, gives you all brand new information, catches you up on everything so it's not confusing and I'll give you my real insights on what I think actually happened to Terragrinstadt and play for you tons of tape I've never aired that I think you'll find very compelling. Then the following Tuesday, February 25th, we dive back into season two. And on Friday, February 28th, we have a second episode on season two because there's so much content and so much tape with the suspects, the persons of interest and hour long conversations with the CBI that have spanned over four years and are as recent as of two days ago. Then on Tuesday, March 4, we're diving into season three, same immersive recap, new information. We're doing all the hard work for you and these aren't some throwaway episodes. This is everything that's happened since the last episode we posted. And finally, finally on Friday, March 7th, we continue season four in the midnight sun with brand new episodes.

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