The Truth According To Jon

Summary

Up and Vanished – Episode: "The Truth According To Jon"

Release Date: May 16, 2025
Host: Payne Lindsey
Podcast: Up and Vanished (Tenderfoot TV)

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Introduction

In this gripping episode of Up and Vanished, host Payne Lindsey delves deep into the mysterious disappearance of Florence Okpealuk, an Alaska Native woman. The episode titled "The Truth According To Jon" features an intense and revealing conversation between Payne and John Guertin, a key figure accused in Florence's disappearance. This summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting critical moments, insights, and the unfolding narrative that seeks to uncover the truth behind the cold case.

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Background of the Case

Up and Vanished Season 4 focuses on the disappearance of Florence Okpealuk and Joseph Balderas in Nome, Alaska. Florence, a 36-year-old Alaska Native, vanished under suspicious circumstances, prompting an extensive investigation. The case has been mired in controversy, with various leads and accusations emerging over time.

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John Guertin’s Personal Struggles and Background [04:23 – 09:12]

John Guertin begins by sharing his tumultuous personal history, marked by the tragic loss of his family members:

• Loss of Family: "I lost my father three weeks later to a stroke..." (04:23)
• Employment Issues: Facing rumors and accusations labeling him a serial killer, leading to job loss: "I was removed of duty for violating a bulletin policy because I yelled at them." (05:26)

John describes his isolation and the escalating harassment he faced, including being falsely accused of multiple assaults and having fraudulent documents sent to his wife in the Philippines. This period of his life led to depression and a relapse into substance abuse.

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The Night of Florence’s Disappearance [12:02 – 33:00]

John recounts the events leading up to Florence’s disappearance:

1. Meeting Florence:

   • Invitation: John met Florence at a bar and invited her to join him and friends for the evening: "I'm going to cook some dinner and drink and have a fire." (37:07)
   • Her Condition: Florence appeared inebriated but functional: "She could answer questions... but she wasn't overly conversing." (36:33)

2. Florence’s Behavior:

   • Florence exhibited erratic behavior, destroying property and expressing a desire to live no longer: "She was talking about hurting herself." (25:38)
   • Attempts by John to calm her down: "I told her it's going to be okay." (13:58)

3. Her Disappearance:

   • Morning After: John heard Florence unzip the tent and leave but did not see her: "I figured she just went outside for a walk or to go take a pee." (17:42)
   • Discovery of Belongings: He later found Florence’s phone and shoes in their tent: "Underneath it was her phone and her shoes." (18:33)

4. Potential Explanations:

   • Florence’s State: John speculates that Florence may have walked into the ocean due to her unstable mental state: "I think she walked out in the ocean." (31:50)
   • Other Possibilities: He considers that someone might have taken her, although he has no concrete evidence: "The other possibility is someone got her." (20:37)

Notable Quote:

"I have no idea because I wasn't there...I know I didn't do anything wrong to her." – John Guertin (43:14)

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Accusations and Harassment [05:26 – 10:21]

John details the widespread rumors and false accusations against him, exacerbated by a podcast episode that labeled him a predator:

• False Allegations:

  • Claims of being a child molester and rapist were spread online: "Now there's two women I've supposedly assaulted." (07:32)
  • Fake legal documents were forged and sent to his wife: "They forged Ketchikan murder warrant documents..." (08:24)

• Police and FBI Involvement:

  • Despite the harassment, the FBI conducted a thorough investigation and cleared him of wrongdoing: "...the FBI... cleared me and they said no foul play..." (05:26)

Notable Quote:

"I've been threatened multiple times. I've been assaulted...the police here from fake profiles on Facebook." – John Guertin (06:54)

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John’s Theories and Cooperation with Authorities [25:09 – 33:00]

John discusses his ongoing struggles with depression and substance abuse, fueled by the false accusations:

• Depression and Substance Use:

  • Relapsed into methamphetamines due to depression: "I relapsed a little bit on the methamphetamines because of depression." (24:49)

• Interactions with Paul:

  • Paul, a drug dealer, visited John, questioning him about the case:

    "He was asking me questions... about that night with Flo and anything else." – John Guertin (25:55)

• Florence’s Work and Theories:

  • A friend suggests Florence was harassed by a diver involved in reconstructing a house:

    "She thinks the diver guy did something to her." – John Guertin (27:08)

Notable Quote:

"If I hadn't been too lazy and assumed she was gonna be alright... a small change could have had a drastic impact." – John Guertin (32:38)

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Payne’s Skepticism and Planned Polygraph Test [33:00 – 44:57]

Payne Lindsey challenges John’s narrative, emphasizing the lack of evidence supporting his theory that Florence walked into the ocean:

• Questioning Inconsistencies:

  • Payne points out the absence of evidence for Florence’s ocean demise, urging John to consider other possibilities:

    "There's the least amount of evidence to support that. So let's just check that off the list." – Payne Lindsey (34:05)

• John’s Admission of Inaction:

  • John acknowledges his failure to ensure Florence's safety:

    "I did not do anything wrong... not caring enough to get up the next morning." (30:10)

• Live Polygraph Announcement:

  • To vindicate himself, John agrees to take a live polygraph test:

    "He wants to take a polygraph test live. No editing, no excuses." – Payne Lindsey (43:21)

Notable Quote:

"But she wasn't like hurting people... I was too lazy to roll and look because I knew who it was." – John Guertin (17:58)

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Conclusion and Upcoming Events

The episode concludes with Payne announcing a live polygraph test featuring John Guertin, scheduled for Sunday, May 18, at 8 PM Eastern Time on Up and Vanished's Instagram. This unprecedented move aims to provide transparency and allow listeners to witness John’s plea for innocence firsthand.

Final Quote:

"As of now, this is John's story... Every twist, every dodge, every moment he claims as his truth." – Payne Lindsey (44:57)

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Key Takeaways

• Complex Narratives: The case of Florence Okpealuk is intricate, with personal struggles and false accusations intertwining, complicating the search for truth.
• John Guertin’s Struggle: John’s account reveals a man battling personal demons and societal backlash, seeking redemption and clarity.
• Unresolved Questions: Despite John’s detailed narrative, many questions remain unanswered, highlighting the challenges in resolving cold cases.
• Transparency Efforts: The upcoming live polygraph test represents a novel approach to seeking truth and engaging the community in the investigation.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• John Guertin on His Losses:

  "I lost my father three weeks later to a stroke." (04:23)

• On False Accusations:

  "Now there's two women I've supposedly assaulted." (07:32)

• John’s Regret:

  "If I hadn't been too lazy and assumed she was gonna be alright... a small change could have had a drastic impact." (32:38)

• Payne’s Skepticism:

  "There's the least amount of evidence to support that. So let's just check that off the list." (34:05)

• Final Plea:

  "I know I didn't do anything, but I'm the only one that can really help." (42:00)

---

Closing Remarks

This episode of Up and Vanished presents a deeply personal and controversial narrative surrounding Florence Okpealuk’s disappearance. Through John Guertin’s candid revelations and Payne Lindsey’s probing questions, listeners are invited to navigate the complexities of truth, perception, and justice. The forthcoming live polygraph promises to add a new dimension to the investigation, potentially bringing clarity to a case that has long baffled the Nome community.

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For more detailed insights and updates, listeners are encouraged to follow Up and Vanished on Instagram and tune into the live polygraph session.

Transcript

[Unknown Host]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Maggie Freeling]

From the team that brought you up and vanished comes an all new podcast that brings you a weekly dose of true crime cases.

[Unknown Host]

She's in an unknown area.

[John Guertin]

Do you know if she's here now or was she released? They said she was released.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm Payne Lindsay.

[Maggie Freeling]

And I'm Maggie Freeling.

[Payne Lindsay]

This is up and Vanish Weekly.

[Maggie Freeling]

Join me as I talk through cases with special guests and true crime experts.

[Unknown]

There's gotta be something at the heart.

[John Guertin]

Of that evidence that they've got.

[Maggie Freeling]

It's gotta be DNA.

[John Guertin]

Yeah.

[Maggie Freeling]

Tune in as Payne Lindsay lays out the crime in true up and vanished style.

[Payne Lindsay]

A late night knock at the door, a missing car and a mysterious shadowy figure caught on camera.

[John Guertin]

We cannot see that person's face.

[Payne Lindsay]

Ever.

[John Guertin]

Luckiest person in the world.

[Payne Lindsay]

What new evidence will it take to solve one of Florida's most high profile missing persons cases?

[Maggie Freeling]

Up and Vanish Weekly is available now. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts for ad.

[Payne Lindsay]

Free Listening exclusive bonuses and early access starting next week. Subscribe to Tenderfoot [e-mail] or on Apple Podcasts.

[Unknown Host]

Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical and and sexual violence, rape and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening.

[Payne Lindsay]

Recently I've spent hours on the phone with John Girton, and what you're about to hear is what he says is the truth. The man at the center of Florence Ocpialik's disappearance. No more waiting. You're going to get to hear him right now. Unfiltered, his own words. This isn't an interview. It's a real phone call. A long, winding conversation between me and John and what he tells me. It's strange, it's messy, and it might change everything. This is the truth. According to John.

[John Guertin]

I didn't have a lot of choice because I had nowhere to go when things start going downhill here. Because prior to just coming here Christmas two years ago, I mean, literally four months before coming here, my mother passed away Christmas Eve. And then two weeks later, my brother passed from fentanyl overdose. Oh, man. I lost my father three weeks later to a stroke. So I really didn't have anywhere to go. And so when I came up here and I lost my job with the state, which was the salt of the rumors going around, there were gentlemen on the boats that were going around telling her, calling me serial killer. And I yelled at them and I was removed of duty for violating a bulletin policy because I yelled at them. There's, you know. And now. Are you the same guy I met? Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yes. You're. You're okay. I'm the guy you met in the bar, remember?

[John Guertin]

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, a lot of that I think I didn't explain correctly. Like the part about the diver and the barrel that I never confirmed, that that was just something somebody told.

[Payne Lindsay]

What do you mean? Which part?

[John Guertin]

The part where the girl accused the rescue diver and said that there was a barrel under the house that is working. That was just something somebod told me. I never verified any of that. And so I was just relaying what I was told, you know, and I tell anybody to listen to me, my story and like, you know, it was pretty easy to get me to talk about it because I want everybody to know, you know, and the FBI, they were there for three and a half weeks and did a full investigation and they even cleared me and you know, cleared with. And they said no foul play even. So I don't know, I kind of stay out of it, you know. And it got pretty bad around here. I got hit by a car. I've been threatened multiple times. I've been assaulted. And it got, it got pretty bad. And the police here from fake profiles on Facebook.

[Payne Lindsay]

So what, what are people saying?

[John Guertin]

They've actually changed it now. Apparently I got robbed by a girl out from McDonald's and she assaulted me and I pressed charges. And so she had her friend go online and now there's two women I've supposedly. Yeah. And they just made it up. And the police here conducted an investigation because they were receiving complaints because somebody post hosted the podcast on Catch a Can community cycle, which is a community Facebook thing.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay.

[John Guertin]

And I, I, the only reason I even found out about it was because fellow employees on the ferry, my chief steward called me and personal friends of mine too at work. They said hey dude. And I, I listened to about 10, 15 minutes of it and I kind of started crying. I couldn't listen to it anymore. And now apparently I'm a child moles, a rapist. I'm less children now too. And then at one point, because Tetch can has completely taken this and just they actually forged Ketchikan murder warrant documents and registered sex offended paperwork and sent it to my wife in the Philippines. I had to take her into the DA's office and tell her that it's all fake and that I am not wanted for any crimes.

[Payne Lindsay]

Wait, so who forged these documents? Because that, that's a crime in its.

[John Guertin]

Yes, but Catch a Can doesn't have the means to find out because they used a fake profile and I went in with the fake and you can tell it's fake because when you open up the profile there's no dates. The, the profiles only existed for a month and there's no photo. You know, it's obvious. And, and see they never came to me when they received the complaints because people were calling them and complaining to them that I'm here and they want, they're doing about it. So when I went in with the actual I literally received death threats. And they said well we, we conducted our investigation a couple weeks ago and law enforcement doesn't even know who you are up there or, or anything about the case because the FBI, okay Gnome PD was even tried to talk to him. They refused to talk to Me, right. They impounded a car that I rented for my. And I drove them out to go fishing. But any one of my friends, they were going in their homes and certain search warrants. I tried to talk to them, you know, to help. And so finally the FBI came in with a group of about five investigators out of Anchorage. And they were there approximately, I believe about three weeks. I fully cooperated. They're the only ones that ever interviewed me or come talk to me, you know. And I told him everything I did. And the only thing they kept asking me about a black truck because I don't know if you know the location. The beach where I was at is about a quarter mile away from the paved road. And up on that paved road, it's the port. And there's a camera that overlooks the port.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah.

[John Guertin]

Okay. They said that. That a picture of a black truck was a female profile. Getting into it about the times when I said, you know, she left. Okay. And that's all I know because they just were asking me, do you know anybody in a black truck? No. Now, about a year earlier, somebody loaned me a blue pickup that said Tanya on the back with two and a half foot letters. So I mean highly identifiable. And that was a cab company I was working at. And I got a whole either and that's what I used for transportation. A four wheeler with no exhaust. And you could literally hear me coming. And the FBI actually had me started up for them and they had to cover their ears and they brought in cadaver dogs and everything. And I gave them permission to go into my tent. I had a huge cabin tent because I. People were allowed to just show up. I had befriended quite a few female friends. I used to teach women self defense and empowerment courses. Right. And teach them they don't have to be a victim. The fact is me being forced to stay there and not be able to run away. I have to. Every friend that I talk to, when I first meet him, I explained to him my situation. And I want them to be fully informed that before you know, you want to hang out with me, that there is going to be a rumor and people are going to come up to you and say, why are you hanging out with him? Do you know this, this and this?

[Payne Lindsay]

So, so what do you tell. What do you tell them that that situation is?

[John Guertin]

I tell them everything.

[Payne Lindsay]

Like, can you give me. Can you tell me what. I'm just curious, like how I said.

[John Guertin]

I was in north Alaska, I gave a girl a ride and a safe place to stay. And in the Morning I heard her leave. I tell them about her boyfriend showing up. I tell him everything. Her boyfriend. And I don't. Yeah, her boyfriend showed up the next day. That's the person I gave the shoes and the phone to. He worked with me. I don't know, I can't remember because I kind of like tried blogging, but he worked at the cab company, he knew me and her sister was with him. And she's like, he did something. He goes, no, I know John. John didn't do nothing.

[Payne Lindsay]

So Florence was in your tent. That's okay. Florence was. But here. But let me finish. But the next morning, Florence is missing, but you have her things. Why is that? Why is that?

[John Guertin]

Because. Okay, because her boyfriend told me she had took her to the hospital, admitted her for treatment. They put her on the drugs that don't let you allow to drink. Well, she had went out and went drinking that night. She became extremely unstable psychologically. Was talking about hurting herself. There was about three, three camps right there where I was. And she wanted cigarettes so bad she went next door. Now there was a guy from Spain or something like that. He'd been there every year too. He knocked his tent down, got upset because he didn't smoke. I don't smoke. She couldn't find a cigarette. And I finally got her to calm down.

[Payne Lindsay]

How'd you get. How'd you get her to calm down?

[John Guertin]

I was just talking to her and tell her it's going to be okay.

[Payne Lindsay]

Right.

[John Guertin]

You know, I said, you know, because she was talking about not wanting to live and everything like that. And I did not. It was stressful for me watching her go through this, you know.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah.

[John Guertin]

Because my tent was huge. It was 18 by 24, so. And I had a cot in one corner. I had a wood stove in there to cook on. And I had a solar panel and a 12 volt refrigerator. So I had a. And I would set up pallets, you know, not pallet pallets, but we, that's what we call it. Sleeping.

[Payne Lindsay]

Set up just little places.

[John Guertin]

And I had two or three because friends were always welcome to stop by. As a matter of fact, that night I was expecting two friends to stop by. A boyfriend and girlfriend, very close friends, because they'd like to come out and hang out and we'd have a bonfire and you know, so everybody was always woke, you know, and just be respectful.

[Payne Lindsay]

Who are these friends? Who are these friends that you're talking about?

[John Guertin]

She moved back to the island. The island that's right out from the ocean, Sabunga. I believe from, I mean the guy. Oh, well, it was, I was mainly friends with her, but it was her boyfriend and they kind of broke up right after that. So I'm trying to remember. They were in my old Facebook account and when I broke my phone last month, I lost the Facebook account. Had to start a new one. Can't really remember his name.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, so let's just go back to the basics here. Yeah. So Florence was in your tent and then when is the last time that you saw her?

[John Guertin]

Okay, I saw her when she went to sleep. Okay.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay.

[John Guertin]

Now daylight, you tell them to 10. It's daylight and I'm laying there half awake, half asleep, and I hear her get up, I hear her unzip the tent because it's an eight foot tall zipper. She unzips it and zips it down. And I figured she just went outside for a walk or to go take a pee somewhere, you know, because that's what girls do out there is they go behind the hill and so.

[Payne Lindsay]

And what time is that about? Just guess.

[John Guertin]

Okay. I actually looked at my phone to see what time it was. That was 7:30. I get up around 8:15, 8:20. And I'm looking around and she's not there. So I go outside and I walk and I look up and I look down the beach because it's about a quarter of a mile walk to the road and it is a direct sight line. And you could, if somebody was walking, I at least see their silhouette. And I don't see her anywhere. So I'm like, huh, that's weird. But it's not that weird out there because people have been drinking and everything. Sometimes they just leave.

[Payne Lindsay]

Leave where though? Like, why could you not see?

[John Guertin]

It's a, it's a 15, 20 minute walk to the road and from the road it's another 10 minute walk to downtown.

[Payne Lindsay]

Back to when you're in the tent and she's asleep. Did you actually see her with your own eyes leave?

[John Guertin]

No, I heard her use the zipper. How do you, like, how do you.

[Payne Lindsay]

Know it was her?

[John Guertin]

Because she was the only one there with me.

[Payne Lindsay]

But you looked at your phone. Why didn't you, why didn't you look up to see her?

[John Guertin]

Because when I looked at my phone, she'd already zipped it down and was outside. And I just looked at it and I go, man, it's still early. I'm late here a while, right? Because I wasn't facing the doorway, I was facing the wall. Because I sleep on my side. I, I was too lazy to roll and look, because I. I knew who it was.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay, so. So either way, you. You realize at some point it looks like Florence left and she zipped the tent back up, right?

[John Guertin]

Yes.

[Payne Lindsay]

Did she leave anything behind or. Or what?

[John Guertin]

Yeah, yeah. Later on that day, I didn't even realize it then, but I. Folding the bedding over that I made for her, and underneath it was her phone and her shoes. I'm like, oh, well, she'll be back for these as soon as she realizes it.

[Payne Lindsay]

So when did you realize that? Like, not in the morning, but no.

[John Guertin]

I didn't find them right away.

[Payne Lindsay]

When. So when did you find them that next day?

[John Guertin]

Well, okay, it was later on that afternoon. I was.

[Payne Lindsay]

You weren't curious to see, like, what she left behind if she just dipped out on you?

[John Guertin]

No, because I didn't know she left anything behind.

[Payne Lindsay]

Right.

[John Guertin]

You know, because to me, I put my shoes on and I put my phone in my pocket and then I leave.

[Payne Lindsay]

But why. Why didn't she do that? That's. That's so weird.

[John Guertin]

But. Because she was under the drugs the hospital gave her that you're not supposed to drink on. So clearly I don't think scientologically. And see, I. I kind of have my own theory that a lot of people aren't talking about.

[Payne Lindsay]

Let's hear it.

[John Guertin]

But it's. I really don't want to think this happened, but up there, especially in Alaska with the addiction issues, there is a possibility. And I, I, you know, possible. The night earlier, she was talking about not wanting to live, and I. I'm afraid that is a possibility.

[Payne Lindsay]

What do you mean?

[John Guertin]

I think she walked out in the ocean.

[Payne Lindsay]

So if you walked out in the ocean, because I've been out there on west beach, you're not just.

[John Guertin]

And I don't. You know, I mean, I'm afraid that it is, but I don't. I pray it's not. But then the other alternatives is something else. And what's.

[Payne Lindsay]

What's the other. What's the other alternative?

[John Guertin]

Well, somebody got her.

[Payne Lindsay]

And who.

[John Guertin]

Okay, there's two options. And who could.

[Payne Lindsay]

Who could that have been?

[John Guertin]

I don't know. And like I said, well, it had.

[Payne Lindsay]

To be someone close to your tent on the beach. So give me your best guess. Or, you know, help me.

[John Guertin]

The guy next to me, he goes to church, and he's a nice guy.

[Payne Lindsay]

You go to church?

[John Guertin]

You know, I don't. Yeah, but. And then the other. There was a pallet house built right next to his tent that was a pallet, and it was a guy and a woman, you know, and I did not know them very well. But I talked to the Latino guy a lot, you know, because he was gold mining stuff too. And we got along and, you know, we were kind of doing the same thing, you know, and I. I don't want to think that because, you know.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, right now we have to think everything because, yeah, the bottom line is.

[John Guertin]

Two options, you know, correct or the other, you know, and. And because they kept asking me about a black truck, but it wasn't conclusive because as much as they can tell me it was a female figure, there was nothing that they could tell me that it was even her.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Payne Lindsay]

That night, obviously you said that she was drinking. What kind of drugs and drinks did you guys take that night?

[John Guertin]

I took no drugs and I took no drinking. Oh wait, no. I was smoking some dabs. Marijuana. That was my thing now occasionally. And after that I relapsed a little bit on the methamphetamines because of depression.

[Payne Lindsay]

Around what time? Around what time period?

[John Guertin]

About three to four weeks after the flu incident because of my depression.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why were you so. Why were you so depressed?

[John Guertin]

Because people were saying that I did something and I didn't.

[Payne Lindsay]

And why do you think they were saying that?

[John Guertin]

Because technically I was the last person anyone knows that saw her.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, then who do you think saw her after you?

[John Guertin]

I have no idea.

[Payne Lindsay]

Don't you think that if you could figure that part out, then you'll be cleared forever?

[John Guertin]

But here, here's the thing. You want to hear something really weird? And this is what I thought about later after Danny girl called me in Oregon.

[Payne Lindsay]

What is it?

[John Guertin]

Paul was. Paul was coming out and visiting me because I went in and I went into town once, twice, and purchased some methamphetamines from him. And then he was making trips out there to check on me and he would bring me out and he was asking me questions and he would give me a little bit and I would talk to him because I was depressed. And then I'm like, I barely know this guy and I didn't socialize with him. I've only met him and purchased from him twice. And why is he coming out to visit me? I thought he was just trying to be a friend. Well, then Danny girl tells me this stuff and I'm like. Because he was asking me questions, he'd get me. He got me high.

[Payne Lindsay]

Like what kind of questions? Like what?

[John Guertin]

Hey, what do you remember about that night with flow and anything else? Is anybody saying anything? You know, why would he ask.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why would he ask that?

[John Guertin]

I don't know. But then after I make it to Oregon, Dangirl tells me that he was best friends with the diver guy she had the theory about. And see the reason she come up with the barrel theory is because she was working on the diver guys house reconstruction underneath it, restocking the peers. Because that's what she did was construction work. And she showed up one day and the way she explained it was right after Flo's disappearance and he would no longer allow her under the house to do any work and stop the job completely. And she goes, I think that, you know, he did something put her. She's very. Gonna go to the house.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, we've clearly like, we've heard that, I mean almost too many times. And, and you've even said you think it's a rumor. And a second secondly, I don't care about the drugs, man. I don't give a. I do have a question for you. I. I found the picture from the FBI of the truck that you're talking about. And I text, I texted it to you. Can you look at it and tell me if you recognize it?

[John Guertin]

Wow, this is interesting. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm not meaning to get excited. It's just, you know, it's been so long and. Okay, pain image. Cool, cool, cool. No, no, because I am just as, as much as I really, really, really wish it wasn't an outcome like that, but still I want to know. Okay, okay, okay. I. I don't know, but like I said, it has a weird rack on the back, you know, because I never saw the picture. They never showed me a picture.

[Payne Lindsay]

It's a flat.

[John Guertin]

Maybe they did. Yeah. And like I said, I described this and somebody told me it was a.

[Payne Lindsay]

You described it to who?

[John Guertin]

Well, two or three of my friends in town to see if they knew who he was. Because if I could find out some information, I could give it to the FBI because the FBI asked me, have.

[Payne Lindsay]

You seen this picture before yet or.

[John Guertin]

No, it is a possibility that the FBA showed me because it is looking familiar now, the picture, not the truck, but the picture, you know, and it would make sense that the FBI would have this and show it to me. So probably yes, they showed me because I was. At that point I wanted to cooperate because one, I wanted to clear my name and two, I really, I really wanted everybody to know the truth because.

[Payne Lindsay]

Do you still want them to know the truth?

[John Guertin]

Yes and because I know that I didn't.

[Payne Lindsay]

But who did?

[John Guertin]

Yes and no.

[Payne Lindsay]

But I'm asking you. But who did?

[John Guertin]

I. I don't know because I had no involvement and that Part, it doesn't.

[Payne Lindsay]

Matter if you weren't involved. You're saying that you didn't do it, but you're hinting that you know who may have done it.

[John Guertin]

Well, all I was told by another friend that she was drinking with a guy in that truck. And she described him to me as young white male, mid to late 20s. And I don't know him who is. And I never. I don't.

[Payne Lindsay]

I don't know who told you that.

[John Guertin]

But I'm trying to remember name. So maybe I could have. Maybe it would have changed the outcome of anything. You know, a butterfly effect. One small thing can change everything. If I'd have got up and walked out outside and made sure she was okay, maybe whatever. Whatever would have changed to, you know, let's take you to town. Let's get you some cigarettes. Are you hungry? Where. Where's home? Can I drop you off? Just anything that is nothing to me. No effort, just a small change could have had a drastic impact.

[Payne Lindsay]

So what? Yet, what do you think happened when she left the tent? Because you have to have thought about this for years. If I were you, I would think a million possibilities. Where have you landed?

[John Guertin]

Without any other further proof of anything, I can only think that she went in the ocean.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why would she do that?

[John Guertin]

Because the night before, she was talking about. After I got her to come in, she was talking about how her life was so horrible and that. How she's such a burden on everybody. And then she wishes, you know, that she wasn't around anymore.

[Payne Lindsay]

And what'd you. What'd you say to that?

[John Guertin]

I told her. I said, look, you know, this is just how it looks to you right now at this moment. You know, life gets better. But her life was all about. No. No, it didn't. Because I was too lazy to care about her. I just assumed she was gonna be okay.

[Payne Lindsay]

Are you still too lazy to care?

[John Guertin]

No. Because everything that I believe in, if I hadn't been too lazy and assumed she was gonna be all right, if I just made sure of it, the possibility of things being different would be extremely great.

[Payne Lindsay]

What do you think that they would be? How would they be different?

[John Guertin]

Well, I could have taken her to get help.

[Payne Lindsay]

Why didn't you take her to get help that night?

[John Guertin]

Because it was late.

[Payne Lindsay]

It. Wasn't that when you picked her up from the nugget?

[John Guertin]

No, no, no. But I didn't realize that she was in that type of condition.

[Payne Lindsay]

Well, you did, though. You said that whenever you talked to her, she didn't seem right. And she was not able to complete sentences.

[John Guertin]

Yeah. And I figured just resting and hanging out would be fine.

[Payne Lindsay]

Do you see how somebody. Not me, but somebody else could look like that, as predatory?

[John Guertin]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

But we're sitting here talking today, all these years later, because there's not enough evidence to point somewhere definitively yet. Right. But yeah, when I hear you say that after all these years, you feel like she walked into the ocean. Here's. Here's my problem with that, John, is that there is the least amount of evidence to support that.

[John Guertin]

Yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

So let's just go ahead and check that off the list and start with the other possibilities.

[John Guertin]

See, the other possibility is even harder to think about because then I would have to realize that my inaction resulted in something that is just. That would mean that something horrible happened to her. I mean, granted that the other, you know, if something she did herself, that's not demeaning the horribly of that. But.

[Payne Lindsay]

But we.

[John Guertin]

But that.

[Payne Lindsay]

That's the. That's what we're facing, John, because that's.

[John Guertin]

What her family's facing, you know, And I. I swear to God, I wished I could find out, because she wasn't a bad person. She was just in a bad place, and she hadn't done anything to deserve anything done to her. We get three hours of sunlight during the day between noon and like three or four. But at night, even though it's dark, there's so much freaking snow. Everything's lit up from the snow laying to the midnight sun. Man. I get on my Wheeler and I'm going down the road heading out of the. Okay. The Nugget, the last hotel on the left going out of town towards my camp. Fro was standing out there on the corner right about in front of that bar. I met her and at the last bar at the other end of town on the same side of the street, then I pull up and I say, hey, what you doing? Nothing. Where Betsy? She went home. All right. What are you doing? Nothing, she says. I'm like, well, I got some friends coming out with a bottle later. You want to go hang out and do some dabs? We're gonna cook some dinner and drink and have a fire. And she goes, yeah, that was. Well, she just said, yeah. And she hopped on.

[Payne Lindsay]

You saw her by herself and you gave her an invitation?

[John Guertin]

Yes, yes.

[Payne Lindsay]

What was her demeanor like?

[John Guertin]

It was inebriated, but she wasn't staggering. She wasn't, you know, but she wasn't overly conversating either. She just said, yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

How did she seem to you she she was functional. But what does functional mean?

[John Guertin]

She could stand up so to do she could answer questions like, hey, you want to go do something? Yeah. But she wasn't into giving prolonged answers or a conversation. Just I would ask her, you know, hey, you want to go hang out? I told her that those two are going to come over later and we're going to barbecue and I said, do you want to go? And she's just like, yeah.

[Payne Lindsay]

But she seemed pretty inebriated.

[John Guertin]

Yeah, but it was kind of weird. It wasn't like a regular drunk inebriation and I thought that was kind of weird.

[Payne Lindsay]

Tell me, why was it that you thought it was a good idea to bring her to your tent if she was in that condition?

[John Guertin]

Well, because nothing good happens in Nome after midnight.

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[John Guertin]

If I was involved with an accident or anything, I would have already come forward. I would admit to it. And then I would rather meet you face to face so you can look into my eye. I would be willing to go back to normal, bro. Not right. And I don't know what to do. I don't know how to help because this is where I'm at, you know, this in my mind, you know, I. Because I know I didn't do anything, but I'm the only one that can really help. They don't help zomb memories or whatever, dude. But I don't care about me anymore. This has been going on my life for so long now and I want it, you know. And you know, I mean I'm not afraid of being in trouble because I know what I did or didn't do. You know what I'm saying? You know, like I was saying, what happened, happened. And after that, I don't know. Up to that point after she shut that zipper, I have no idea because I wasn't there. I know I didn't do anything wrong to her. So to be honest, I didn't do anything other than not caring enough to get up the next morning when she left to her armor. To be honest, that's it. Like I said the night before, she was going through a thing and she went extremely erratic, started destroying other people's property. And like I said, I never touched her. I never tried to get her to do anything inappropriate. That was the furthest from my mind. At a certain point I was actually kind of scared because she got violent at other people. And at that point I tried to keep my distance and calm her down. And when she got calm, calm down. And at that point I was so relieved, you know. But she wasn't like hurting people. She was knocking down their tent, screaming and she was angry because she couldn't get a cigarette. I don't. I wasn't over there when she was doing what she was doing to the people. I was at my tent and I went out there and I got her to come back. I remember finally talking her down, getting her to sleep and I went to Sleep well. The only person that she did anything to be angry was my neighbor. I went to sleep thinking everything was okay. Then I heard the zipper in the morning. And then I'm like, okay, she must have still went home.

[Payne Lindsay]

And where do you think she went?

[John Guertin]

I have no idea because I wasn't with her.

[Payne Lindsay]

You were with her right before she went to wherever she went next. So, yes, you were.

[John Guertin]

But after that, I have no idea. Now big polygraph, voice stress analysis, whatever they want. And I mean, I do voice stress analysis. Polygraph. What? I mean, seriously, because I'm being straight, bro. I know that that's all where mine ends. You know what I mean? You know, and it's really hard for me when people think that about me or if there's any possibility, because it's not, you know, and. And it would give something to even the people listening, they're like, wow, you know? You know, you know, because right now there's too much speculation that there's too many questions. At least this would answer some. And, you know, then you can look and say, wow, John, you can set up, you know, polygraph or voice stress analysis or, you know, I am 110 for that, you know, because it will bring absolution and I can move on. And, you know, I was confused as everybody.

[Payne Lindsay]

As of now, this is John's story. Every twist, every dodge, every moment he claims as his truth. And after all that, John agreed to something very big, something that surprised me. He wants to take a polygraph test live. No editing, no excuses. And so we're going to do it this Sunday, May 18, at 8pm Eastern time. We're going to go live. John Guertin gets asked the hard questions by a real polygrapher in the most professional setting that we can create. You'll get to hear it all for yourself in real time. No places to hide. So this Sunday, May 18, at 8pm Eastern Time, follow up and Vanished on Instagram, we'll be going live on the up and Vanished Instagram, which is just upandvanished. This is something we've never done before. And honestly, I have no idea how this plays out. But if you're as curious as I am, tune in. Sunday, May 18, 8pm Eastern. Instagram, live upandvanished. See you Sunday.

[Unknown Host]

Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracey Kaplan. Additional Production by Victoria McKenzie, Alice Kanique, Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set mixed and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show Notes. For more podcasts like up and Banished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.