Truck Forensics

Summary

Up and Vanished: Truck Forensics – Detailed Summary

Introduction

In the episode titled "Truck Forensics" from Season 4 of Up and Vanished, host Payne Lindsay delves deep into the mysterious disappearance of Joseph Balderas, an Alaska Native whose case has lingered unresolved for years. Set against the remote and frigid backdrop of Nome, Alaska, this episode explores the critical role of forensic investigation in potentially unraveling the truth behind Joseph's disappearance.

Background of the Case

Joseph Balderas vanished under puzzling circumstances from Nome, Alaska. Initial investigations were hindered by inadequate forensic procedures and a lack of thorough evidence examination. The centerpiece of the investigation is Joseph’s truck, which had been left unattended in Nome for years, becoming a pivotal piece of evidence that could shed light on his disappearance.

Initial Challenges

Payne Lindsay begins by highlighting the neglect in handling Joseph’s truck:

"The truck had been sitting in Nome for years. I have someone holding the vehicle for us now in Nome. Why is this so hard? NO impound, no investigation. Not treated like evidence." [02:47]

The truck was not properly impounded or treated as evidence, raising suspicions about the thoroughness of the initial investigation.

Reaching Out to Forensic Experts

Realizing the potential significance of the truck, Payne reaches out to Matt Nodell, a seasoned forensic expert with decades of experience in solving murders. Their collaboration aims to conduct a meticulous forensic analysis of the vehicle to uncover any hidden evidence that could be pivotal in solving the case.

Forensic Investigation Process

Matt Nodell outlines the systematic approach required for such an investigation:

"My first step is always just bright light, searching for anything that's a stain. Bright light. And if you see something, then I would do a spot test of that to see if it tests positive for any blood." [10:54]

The team employs various forensic techniques, including phenolphthalein tests and luminol sprays, to detect hidden bloodstains and other traces of evidence within the truck.

Hands-On Examination

The episode provides a detailed walkthrough of the forensic examination:

• Bright Light Inspection: Initial scanning of the truck’s interior to identify visible and hidden stains.
• Spot Testing: Utilizing chemicals to identify the presence of blood without contaminating the evidence.
• Luminol Application: Spraying luminol to reveal faint blood traces that are not visible to the naked eye.

During the examination, Matt Nodell conducts a phenolphthalein test:

"That tests for the heme and hemoglobin... Yes, it will tell you it's blood." [16:56]

Despite extensive searching, initial tests do not reveal substantial evidence:

"One test after another, we were getting nothing. No reaction at all." [19:05]

However, Nodell remains optimistic about uncovering critical evidence:

"If we can get the stain off of the door and onto this swab, it's deionized water... It helps remove what's on the door. We're going to physically find that." [17:03]

Persistence in the Search

Undeterred by initial setbacks, the team continues their methodical search:

"So it's blue. Blue star, that's luminescence." [21:29]

Despite not finding immediate results, Payne emphasizes the importance of preserving every potential piece of evidence:

"So we've only seen Dexter and forensic files. Everyone's seen the luminol blue light." [19:23]

Potential Breakthroughs

Matt Nodell shares a past success story to illustrate the significance of persistent forensic work:

"A little tuft hairs... a DNA profile was developed of an unknown male that was solved because of invisible DNA... broke the entire case open." [23:10]

This anecdote reinforces the possibility that even the smallest evidence could be the key to solving Joseph’s disappearance.

Closing Findings and Future Implications

By the end of the episode, the team has compiled a collection of sealed evidence from the truck, marking the first time it was treated with the necessary forensic rigor:

"By the end of the day, we had a full box of sealed, labeled evidence. And for the first time since Joseph disappeared, his truck was treated like evidence." [26:02]

Payne concludes by emphasizing the potential impact of their findings:

"What we found today could potentially change everything. Because if that hair matches someone, if the blood is Joseph's, then this isn't just a story anymore. This is a case." [26:02]

Conclusion

"Truck Forensics" serves as a compelling exploration of how meticulous forensic analysis can breathe new life into cold cases. Payne Lindsay and Matt Nodell’s dedication highlights the critical need for thorough investigative practices, especially in remote areas like Nome, Alaska. As the episode wraps up, listeners are left anticipating the final episode's revelations, hopeful that this approach might finally bring closure to Joseph Balderas’s mysterious disappearance.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "No impound, no investigation. Not treated like evidence." – Payne Lindsay [02:47]
• "My first step is always just bright light, searching for anything that's a stain." – Matt Nodell [10:54]
• "That tests for the heme and hemoglobin... Yes, it will tell you it's blood." – Matt Nodell [16:56]
• "One test after another, we were getting nothing. No reaction at all." – Payne Lindsay [19:05]
• "A little tuft hairs... a DNA profile was developed of an unknown male that was solved because of invisible DNA." – Matt Nodell [23:10]
• "What we found today could potentially change everything." – Payne Lindsay [26:02]

Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the importance of not overlooking evidence in unresolved cases. Through expert collaboration and unwavering determination, Up and Vanished continues to push the boundaries in true crime investigation, offering listeners a blend of suspense, forensic science, and the quest for justice.

Transcript

[Narrator]

You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.

[Payne Lindsay]

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[Narrator]

For ad free listening and exclusive bonuses, subscribe to [e-mail] or on Apple Podcasts. Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is intended for mature audiences and may include topics that can be upsetting such as emotional, physical and sexual violence, rape and murder. The names of survivors have been changed for anonymity purposes. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not reflect the views of Tenderfoot TV or Odyssey. Thank you so much for listening.

[Payne Lindsay]

From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, your host, Payne Lindsay. And this is up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun. We need it off that fucking island. The truck had been sitting in Nome for years. I have someone holding the vehicle for us now in Nome. Why is this so hard? NO impound, no investigation. Not treated like evidence. Shipping Nome Alaska Premium Auto Transport Nome is a city in Western Alaska's unorganized borough. We know the port of Nome is in Norton Sound, which connects to the barrels. Nome's Causeway serves as a dock. Get to it. To book our car shipping service tour from port Nome, dial 1.

[Matt Nodell]

Thanks for calling Sit youp Car now powered by A1 Transport. For auto transports within the United States, press 1.

[Narrator]

This call is being recorded.

[Payne Lindsay]

No, I believe they cut off with.

[Matt Nodell]

A couple days ago.

[Payne Lindsay]

Actually.

[Matt Nodell]

Let me put out an email.

[Payne Lindsay]

You know, I'd almost say they're gonna.

[Matt Nodell]

Tell me we're way too late in.

[Payne Lindsay]

The season for this.

[Matt Nodell]

They stop doing that when the winter comes.

[Payne Lindsay]

You know what?

[Matt Nodell]

What's your first name?

[Payne Lindsay]

Final destination of this truck is Tacoma, Washington. Please take a picture before you leave it.

[Matt Nodell]

Hello? It's Tracy.

[Payne Lindsay]

Hey, it's Payne. Can you do me a huge, huge favor? Maybe. Can you right now go get the truck so it can make the last shipment out before winter? I. I think so. Where's the key? The keys are in the truck.

[Narrator]

Okay.

[Payne Lindsay]

At this address. I'm texting it to you now. I can go get it. Is it possible for you to drive the vehicle to the port within the next. It's the cutoff. Dylan, did you already pay and run the card? Cutting it close lol. It won't be fucking lol. If that truck doesn't get on that ship, I'm gonna put you on with Dylan. God send it. If Joseph was murdered, this truck might be the last real thing that connects us to that moment. It's on its way to Anchorage. We managed to pull it out literally an hour before winter. After that, the port was shut down and we had it shipped first to Anchorage. This process wasn't easy. This truck. It might hold everything. Not a theory. Not hearsay. Something real, something physical. It sat through Alaska's harshest seasons, but if it still held something, even just a strand of hair, a drop of blood, that could break this case wide open. So we're not just looking, we're listening. Because if Joseph's truck could talk, it might finally be ready to say something.

[Matt Nodell]

I do not think at all that.

[Payne Lindsay]

Joseph's death was an accident.

[Narrator]

Know that he was murdered.

[Matt Nodell]

Why did they not look into everything? There was a very extensive search where his truck was, to me, planted. But nothing else was looked into.

[Payne Lindsay]

It sounds terrible.

[Matt Nodell]

Sometimes I feel like law enforcement knows what happened.

[Andy]

Law enforcement has the ability to seize vehicles and process them for fingerprints. That was not done. They basically just didn't explore any of that. I think they became wedded to the theory that he was a victim of an accident.

[Payne Lindsay]

We've been taught in search and rescues.

[Matt Nodell]

That the last person is going to.

[Payne Lindsay]

Be seen within about a mile or half a mile of his truck.

[Matt Nodell]

And we covered all that area big time. You towed it, correct?

[Andy]

I towed it, yes.

[Matt Nodell]

Yes. Did you notice anything suspicious about the truck?

[Andy]

There was flowers on the windshield. There was no evidence of foul play.

[Payne Lindsay]

Or anything like that.

[Andy]

I mean, we have a situation where all of this, you know, all of this work that I've done is basically work that should have been done by the troopers. But you're in a situation where, for whatever reason, the troopers decided not to investigate this and to basically just close it out. And now they're in a pretty defensive posture about the whole case.

[Payne Lindsay]

Did those troopers, the ABI guys, when.

[Matt Nodell]

They came out, they were supposed to.

[Payne Lindsay]

Take the truck and process it?

[Matt Nodell]

Do you know if we have any results for that or if they did that?

[Andy]

They didn't do. They did not do that. A lot of people have commented that it was kind of a problem that the truck was left out there, and so many people went through it. It wasn't towed in and put in secure impound until just before the ABI guys got out there. The local troopers knew that that was something they should have done, and so they did it at the last second so that when the ABI guys got out there, they would have the vehicle in the secure impound at the police department there to look at it. They didn't process the vehicle forensically for anything.

[Payne Lindsay]

I called Andy because he gets it. He's someone who's never stopped asking the right questions, and he's followed this case for years, seeing the same red flags that I did. Andy, Been a minute. Yeah.

[Andy]

How you doing?

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm good, man. How about yourself? All right.

[Matt Nodell]

Doing good.

[Payne Lindsay]

You're famous now. If you didn't know any random emails.

[Andy]

From people around the country. How many people. How many people listen to this show of yours? People at Gnome appear to be all riled up.

[Payne Lindsay]

Ask them point blank, is there any shot at finding anything inside this truck?

[Andy]

I think that the only possibility would be blood migrated into places where it still exists, you know, down into cracks and crevices, or if there was blood on the seat that had dried. I don't know if there's carpet in the vehicle, but the same situation, you can get blood on there that dries and lasts kind of forever. It would be a exercise in spraying the truck with a chemical to see if it reacts with blood, and if it does, making an effort to swab areas and recover any dried blood and then having it tested.

[Payne Lindsay]

He put us in touch with a forensic expert just outside of Seattle. Someone with decades of experience. The kind of guy who knows how to pull evidence from the impossible. His name is Matt Nodell and he spent decades solving murders. The team and I hopped on a zoom call.

[Matt Nodell]

I know how difficult this kind of assessment is with an old truck and going through it the way that it would need to be examined. There's a couple of things to to think about and how we would do that. Processing.

[Payne Lindsay]

He started breaking it down. Phenolphoullene tests, luminol sprays. How to test a stain without destroying it. He wasn't guessing, he was detailing.

[Matt Nodell]

My first step is always just bright light, searching for anything that's a stain. Bright light. And if you see something, then I would do a spot test of that to see if it tests positive for any blood. Depending on how big or small the stain is, you might want to just save that spot test to send it forward to a DNA lab to identify is it human, non human. Then the next level would be something like luminol, which is a spray reagent that can react with blood. If we use luminol, it needs to be done in the dark so that you can look for the luminescence if there is a reaction with blood.

[Payne Lindsay]

Within minutes of our zoom call, I realized this wasn't just a maybe, this was a plan. Methodical, clinical, the kind of precision that holds up in court.

[Matt Nodell]

It's pretty powerful stuff, detecting dilute amounts of blood. So blood was once dropped in a place, has been weathered, but there's maybe just a little perimeter of it. Luminol might suggest it's there. I would document it, take a bunch of photos and document this. I would approach it as if it was something I was doing for court, like a homicide scene. So that if we find something, it's traceable, it's done forensically so that you could have further testing done. I have a garage essentially that serves as my lab. We could park it in the garage and do this at my office.

[Payne Lindsay]

And just like that, he offered to test the truck in his own forensic lab.

[Matt Nodell]

At the investigators reports. They've interviewed quite a few people. So I know it was by this exit, 44 mile post 44, outdoors for a number of days there. I'd like to see the photos from Alaska State Police or whoever sees this to get their reports and their notes. Did they process it? Did they bring the local crime lab in?

[Payne Lindsay]

Being real, it was a long shot. Years had passed, almost a decade. Dozens upon dozens of people have been inside that truck. But we are all in.

[Matt Nodell]

If we were to find something that popped positive for blood, unless it was a big patch, if there was a lot of it, then it's not such a big issue. But if it's small spots or spatter that went under the steering wheel, as there's some some kind of a struggle, if we detect it might even take that piece of the vehicle off and preserve it, that we'd have the maximum amount of DNA potential transfer on that to do further testing.

[Payne Lindsay]

If there was blood, he'd sure as hell find it. If there was a hair, he'd process it.

[Matt Nodell]

That's kind of what the strategy would entail. So then the logistics become where would this be done? Where's the car now? I've never felt like this before. It's like you just get me. I feel like my true self with you.

[Payne Lindsay]

Does that sound crazy? And it doesn't hurt that you're gorgeous. Okay, that's it. I'm taking you home with me. I mean, you can't find shoes this good just anywhere. Find a shoe for every you from brands you love like Birkenstock, Nike, Adidas and more at your dsw store or dsw.com everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect for Patty. That friend was Desiree. Until one day I texted her and she was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram. She has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook.

[Narrator]

No Facebook anymore.

[Payne Lindsay]

Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer. I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch, a gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Kat Torres, but who was hiding.

[Matt Nodell]

A secret from Wondery.

[Payne Lindsay]

Based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil comes a new series, Don't Cross Kat, about a certain that led me to a mystery in a Texas suburb. I'm calling to check on the two.

[Matt Nodell]

Missing Brazilian girls, maybe get some undercover crew there. The family are freaking out. They are lost.

[Payne Lindsay]

I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. After landing in Seattle, we drove about an hour and a half outside of town and pulled up to a cold steel garage. Hey, man, I'm Payne.

[Matt Nodell]

How you doing?

[Payne Lindsay]

It looked nothing like a lab, but it had everything. Swab kits, luminol, evidence bags. And parked right there in the center was Joseph's truck.

[Matt Nodell]

Before I even begin, what can I find forensically that might be useful?

[Payne Lindsay]

One is blood we started with a bright light inspection.

[Matt Nodell]

Once blood dries, if it's protected, it will just remain there.

[Payne Lindsay]

Scanning every panel, every floor mat.

[Matt Nodell]

I go into this process thinking, okay, these are the things that I can look for. I'm not interested in rust every inch.

[Payne Lindsay]

Of the entire cab.

[Matt Nodell]

This is when you stop and then you can document this. We see that part of the plastic housing has been broken away. I can see some brown discolorations on the dashboard. I have a test for blood called the phenolphthalein test. When I come across something like what's on this dashboard, it could be blood. Blood dries, it tends to concentrate on the perimeter. The middle evacuates and kind of goes to the perimeter. So sometimes on a faint drop like this, you'll get a heavier edge. It's called a phenolphthalein test.

[Payne Lindsay]

And so what is it actually testing?

[Matt Nodell]

That tests for the heme and hemoglobin.

[Payne Lindsay]

And that tells you it's blood?

[Matt Nodell]

Yes, it will tell you it's blood. It does not tell you if it's human blood.

[Payne Lindsay]

I leaned in and spotted something, a dull brown smear just above the door frame.

[Matt Nodell]

The reason we would only test half of that stain is because then we would have an untested, undiluted other half to preserve and then send that to a DNA lab. You can save this swab. We could test that, and if it reacts, we could save this swab. And they may be able to get enough cells. DNA techniques have become so strong. So this is just water. It helps dissolve the stain that's on there. We definitely want to get the stain off of the door and onto this swab. It's deionized water, so it's just pure water. And that will help remove what's on the door. We're going to physically find that. And I'll just go to the. To the bottom of this. Just rubbing that a little bit like that. So I don't see much transfer there. I'm going to rub a little harder. So you can see I've got some. A little bit of discoloration on the. On the part that I really pushed onto the swab.

[Andy]

Okay.

[Matt Nodell]

All right, so now this is the phenolphthalein reagent. And I'll add a drop of that reagent like that. And then the last step. This is hydrogen peroxide. I'll add a drop of that.

[Payne Lindsay]

Could have been rust, could have been food, could have been blood.

[Matt Nodell]

If that would have been blood, that would have turned bright pink in the first couple of seconds.

[Payne Lindsay]

Really?

[Matt Nodell]

And I'm going to leave that there. And I'll try to run a known blood.

[Payne Lindsay]

We swabbed it, ran the test.

[Matt Nodell]

The phenolphthalein binds with the iron and the heme and hemoglobin that's in a component of blood. All right, so now I can see I've picked up something. A little bit of discoloration on the end of the swab.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Matt Nodell]

Same sequence of chemicals. I actually dropped that kind of missed phenolphthalein. And then pushes the reaction to go. This is the hydrogen peroxide.

[Payne Lindsay]

And then we waited.

[Matt Nodell]

Put a drop of that on there.

[Payne Lindsay]

Oh, yeah. There goes.

[Matt Nodell]

And here we come with the. And it's kind of cold in this.

[Payne Lindsay]

That was instant nothing.

[Matt Nodell]

The reading comes seconds. The test requires that you read it in the first couple of seconds of applying those chemicals.

[Payne Lindsay]

One test after another, we were getting nothing. No reaction at all.

[Matt Nodell]

Ultimately, even this negative one from the inside of the door will suck up enough oxygen in the air to push that to turn pink. This is known blood, only a half a year old. So you see the type of positive reaction that we would be looking for. Now, the test is sensitive to the cold. So you can get a false negative if it's too cold.

[Payne Lindsay]

Really?

[Matt Nodell]

It's pretty cold in here. So that was a little slow. But here, because it's a little colder, it took a couple seconds. But the idea is read it in seconds, not minutes.

[Payne Lindsay]

Did we come all this way just to walk out with empty evidence bags? So I've only seen Dexter and forensic files. Everyone's seen the luminol blue light.

[Matt Nodell]

Yeah, it's luminescence. It's kind of like lightning bugs. How? Lightning bugs light up in dark environment. They're using a similar kind of thing. So I put a little bit of diluted blood on here. I'm just going to lay this down here, so I'll have to turn out the lights.

[Payne Lindsay]

Was this it Was this truck really clean? Maybe this version is a couple of.

[Matt Nodell]

Chemical tablets that you drop into water. It has a proper ph in these tablets that you just mix with water. I test this little part right there, and it's blood. But I also see some faint stuff over here as well. Yeah. So I might want to know, is this all one part of a pattern? Did someone try to clean this up? Was there fabric here that was impressed and then removed? Anything I can document without dilution is advantageous to me. I'll give you a second to get your eyes ready.

[Payne Lindsay]

Okay.

[Matt Nodell]

Because when we get Dark here. So I'm going to spray this whole area here. All right, everybody ready?

[Payne Lindsay]

We're ready. All right.

[Matt Nodell]

So you can see.

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah. So it's blue.

[Matt Nodell]

So it's blue. Blue star, that's luminescence. That'll glow for about maybe 30 or 40 seconds.

[Payne Lindsay]

Matt killed the lights and he sprayed blue star, a commercial luminol variant, across the interior. He hit the seat base under the dash, the floorboard. This truck wasn't empty. It was full of trace evidence. The question was, does it mean anything?

[Matt Nodell]

How long do you look for something that might not be there? How many swabs are you going to do in this car? You have to have a reason to do everything that you do. It becomes a finite test of how long do you look for something that might not be there.

[Payne Lindsay]

How long do you keep looking for something that might not even be there? Yikes.

[Matt Nodell]

You know, we could do 2000 swabs on the interior of this car. I'm sure there are 2,000 stains.

[Payne Lindsay]

Right.

[Matt Nodell]

When you look at the microscopic level and you're looking for one or two millimeter size stains.

[Payne Lindsay]

If we're going to find anything, it's not going to fall in our lap here.

[Matt Nodell]

Problem here is let's say that DNA turns out to be the missing person. Well, what if he had a hangnail, that he had a little blood on it and he touched the side of his own seat. Now if it's somebody else's, that's more probative.

[Payne Lindsay]

Regardless of what this meant, we weren't finding nothing anymore. These were human traces of multiple people who've been inside of Joseph's truck. Obviously it's not a crime to be in this vehicle. But if you're someone who's a person of interest who's claimed multiple times, you've never been in this vehicle, we might have a problem.

[Matt Nodell]

Reminded me of a story from a long time ago when I was working with the state. There was a vehicle alleged to have been involved with a hit and run. We took a similar process of this car. We documented all the way around the outside. We're finding nothing. Finally at the end, get to the bottom of the car and there's a little tuft hairs. Began to pull the hair. And attached to the end of this hair was a piece of scalp. A DNA profile was developed of an unknown male that was solved because of invisible DNA. Ultimately broke the entire case open. This is kind of a long hair. I would guess that's human. This long one here that's tangled into this.

[Payne Lindsay]

Uh huh. Then I found a key and a half wrapped candy near the cup holder. We bagged it all.

[Matt Nodell]

What you're really hoping for is that one or more of these would actually have some surviving root portion, portion of a root that might have some lingering DNA.

[Payne Lindsay]

So we kept going.

[Matt Nodell]

That's going to be much more useful for identifying a particular individual from a hair. Just looking at the microscopic features.

[Payne Lindsay]

More hair.

[Matt Nodell]

Take this, dump it out into a clean, sterile environment and begin sorting these, sorting them out by characteristics and more hair.

[Payne Lindsay]

In this case, there are individuals who have stated on record that they've never been inside this vehicle. Let's say that one of these hairs is theirs. Yeah.

[Matt Nodell]

If you can get to that level of discrimination to connecting somebody who says, I was never there, well, your DNA is there. Those are the kinds of things that you would hope to develop in this situation. A wrapper like that could have some piece of physical evidence. It could have a partial thumbprint that's been preserved. Something like this key. What does that go to? Does it have any meaning? How does it fit in? Any one of these things might have some piece of information on it that then breaks something open. You see that small little brownish looking deposit there?

[Payne Lindsay]

Yeah.

[Matt Nodell]

That's worth the test. This one has the right look. It's got texture, it's got a perimeter. It looks like it might have flowed from above to below and then accumulated there. Yep. Preserve this, put it in an envelope, appropriately packaged. If it is blood, I've saved half of that. And then we save the rest of that on a swab, send it to a DNA laboratory, have that analyzed.

[Payne Lindsay]

By the end of the day, we had a full box of sealed, labeled evidence. And for the first time since Joseph disappeared, his truck was treated like evidence. We don't know what the lab will say, but we do know what we saw. And what we found today could potentially change everything. Because if that hair matches someone, if the blood is Joseph's, then this isn't just a story anymore. This is a case. Next week on the finale episode of up and Vanished in the Midnight Sun. Stay tuned.

[Matt Nodell]

He asked for my phone. My dad told me, go upstairs. I looked out the laundry room window. That old blue pickup truck was backing up toward the van. My mom told me not to look, but there was also this sinkhole in our backyard. My dad kept saying he wanted to fill it. And a few days later, my dad said it was filled in. I don't know if something's in there. He said that you could hide Florence Okpialik's body. In his sewer, his septic system, and I'm like, why are you telling me this? I always thought that it was weird.

[Payne Lindsay]

That is weird.

[Narrator]

Up and Vanished in the Midnight sun is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your host is Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Payne Lindsay with additional assistance from Mike Rooney. Executive producers are Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. Lead producer is Mike Rooney, along with producers Dylan Harrington and Cooper Skinner. Editing by Mike Rooney and Cooper Skinner with additional editing by Dylan Harrington. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Additional production by Victoria Mackenzie, Alice Kanique, Glenn and Eric Quintana. Artwork by Rob Sheridan. Original music by Makeup and vanity. Set mix and mastered by Cooper Skinner. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. Special thanks to all of the families and community members that spoke to the team. Additional information and resources can be found in our show Notes. For more podcasts like up and Banished, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.