Loading summary
Transcript78 lines
- [00:02]
Maggie Freeling
You're listening to a Tenderfoot TV podcast.
- [00:08]
Payne Lindsey
Tonight's Meal Tilapia Surprise with Boiled Cabbage. Begin cooking steps 1 through 50 now.
- [00:13]
Maggie Freeling
Are you kidding me? Making dinner shouldn't feel like doing a thousand piece puzzle. With Blue Apron's new One Pan Assemble and bake meals. The hard part's already done. Pre chopped ingredients, zero stress. Just assemble, bake and enjoy. No complicated steps, no mountain of dishes. Try assemble and bake today. Get 20% off your free refers to orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.
- [00:40]
Payne Lindsey
If you're enjoying this show, I'm guessing you like to hear about true crime, maybe even conspiracies and all the messy extremes of human behavior. I know I do, and that's why I find myself always listening to our friends over in the UK with the podcast Red Handed. Every week, Hannah and Saruthi dig into a new true crime story that'll not only give you chills, but also make you think they're not afraid to go deeper. Whether it's a brush with cult, a strange subculture, or even geopolitics, and the way they approach it is smart, well researched and always a little different than what you'd expect. Recently, Red Handed covered everything from the twisted story of Ed Gein to Australia's so called mushroom murderer Aaron Patterson. They even put together these sharp quick hit guides on big cultural moments like the JFK assassination or Diddy's trial earlier this year. And if you're looking for something shorter, their other show shorthand gives you a weekly bite sized hit from Areas 51 to the Holy Grail. With more than 400 episodes already out there with Red Handed, you have plenty to binge, so go search my friend's podcast Red Handed. That's all one word. Red Handed. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:56]
Vince Velasquez
Hey up and Vanished listeners, It's Rob.
- [01:59]
Payne Lindsey
We wanted to share with you that over the next month we'll be spotlighting episodes of our new sister series, up and Vanished Weekly.
- [02:06]
Vince Velasquez
Hosted by Payne Lindsey and Maggie Freeling. Every week, up and Vanish Weekly dives.
- [02:12]
Payne Lindsey
Into a new missing or murdered persons case, bringing you interviews with experts and advocates who take you behind the scenes of the investigation. On behalf of the entire up and Vanish team, we hope you enjoy up and Vanish Weekly.
- [02:33]
John
Up and Vanish Weekly is released every Wednesday and brought to you absolutely free, but for one week early access and ad free listening. Subscribe to Tenderfoot plus at tenderfootplus.com or on Apple Podcasts. If you're already a Subscriber thank you for your support.
- [02:51]
Maggie Freeling
This podcast discusses mature and sensitive content, including descriptions of violence that may be triggering for some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Hey y'.
- [03:19]
Payne Lindsey
All.
- [03:19]
Maggie Freeling
Welcome back to up and Vanished Weekly. I'm Maggie Freeling. Most people have some sort of routine wake up, drink coffee, brush teeth, go to bed. Routines keep us structured, organized, and even safe. But sometimes those simple routines can be just what makes us unsafe. For Katie Jeunesse, one routine late night walk turned deadly just four years ago. Katie's death sent shockwaves through Atlanta, Georgia. Not just because her murder was brazen in a public place, but the gruesome nature of her killing shook everyone, even catching the attention of PETA. This case is still hot and police are actively seeking Katie's killer, so to get more details and updates on the investigation, I speak with retired Atlanta Homicide Detective Vince Velasquez. But first, here's more about what Happened to Katie.
- [04:25]
Payne Lindsey
Henry's Tavern Midtown Atlanta, July 2021 Katie Jeuness strolls into the bar to meet her partner, Emma Clark. Along with her is the couple's dog, Bowie. They stopped by to visit Emma as she was bartending, and tonight she was working the closing shift. After a few minutes, Katie and her dog Bowie left the bar and planned to return once Emma finished work. After all the guests had left the bar that night, Emma closed up, but her partner Katie and their dog Bowie were nowhere in sight. Emma opens her phone and tries calling Katie's cell, but the calls go unanswered. Beginning to feel anxious, Emma opens her Find My app on her iPhone and pings the location of Katie's phone. According to her iPhone, Katie was somewhere near Piedmont Park, a huge green space in the heart of Midtown, just a few minutes from the bar. According to the app, Katie's phone was just inside one of the entrances to the park, so Emma leaves and tries to find her. A few minutes later, Emma enters the park and stumbles onto an absolutely horrific scene. Just a few yards from the entrance, Emma notices a black silhouette in the road. As she gets closer, she comes to realize it's the lifeless body of the couple's dog, Bowie, who appears to have suffered multiple stab wounds. Nearby, off to the side, she sees another silhouette on the ground, and as she gets closer, she identifies her girlfriend, 40 year old Katie Jenness. Katie's body is covered in what appears to be dozens of stab wounds and there is no sign of life. At 1:10am Emma calls 911. Officers from the Atlanta Police Department soon arrive at the park within moments, police realize that this is not a typical homicide. Both the gruesome nature and the location of the grisly scene would leave the entire city of Atlanta on edge.
- [06:28]
Maggie Freeling
Tragedy in Piedmont Park.
- [06:30]
John
It has women.
- [06:31]
Maggie Freeling
And the LGBTQ map is someone targeted for years.
- [06:36]
Payne Lindsey
Terrified residents are left to wonder who killed Katie Janess and her dog Bowie.
- [07:00]
Vince Velasquez
Foreign.
- [07:06]
Payne Lindsey
TV in Atlanta. I'm Payne Lindsay.
- [07:09]
Maggie Freeling
And I'm Maggie Freeling, and you're listening.
- [07:11]
Payne Lindsey
To up and Vanished Weekly.
- [07:17]
Maggie Freeling
Katie Jeunesse was described by people who knew her as, quote, one of a kind. Emma said about Katie that she was the most, quote, intelligent, kind, humble, and beautiful person I have ever known. I wanted to spend every second with her. Emma and Katie have been together seven years and considered themselves married. They lived with their three pets, Tori, Fig, and Bowie, in the Piedmont park area of Atlanta, Georgia. Piedmont park is kind of like Atlanta's version of Central park or really Prospect park, if you know New York. It's a generally safe and progressive area. Rainbow Pride, crosswalks, dog parks, restaurants, markets. People are around, running, biking, walking at all hours of the day. Katie fit right in in Piedmont Park, Atlanta. She was a bartender in the area and a singer songwriter who often wrote music about social justice. Katie and Emma were planning their future together. But all that ended when Katie was found gruesomely killed in Piedmont Park.
- [08:28]
Payne Lindsey
The autopsy of Katie Jeunesse confirmed the brutal nature of her murder. Medical examiners determined that Katie died from multiple sharp force injuries to her face, neck and Torso. She suffered 40 to 50 stab wounds to her face, neck, and torso. With investigators noting the deliberate and methodical nature of the attack. There was also something else compounding the disturbing nature of this crime. On Katie's torso, the killer carved out the word fat. Fat Atlanta police also ordered a full autopsy of their dog, Bowie. During the examination, authorities attempted to swab the dog's mouth and paws in hopes of collecting DNA. The results of this DNA collection have not yet been made public. Piedmont park had security cameras installed throughout the entire premises, but due to outdated technology, the cameras were not recording. However, police did release street camera footage taken from just outside the park at 12:09am it showed Katie and her dog Bowie walking near the entrance to the park, just a few blocks from where she would later be found. This footage is the last confirmed sighting of Katie alive. With very little physical evidence and an entire city on edge, investigators scramble to piece together the events of that night.
- [10:02]
Maggie Freeling
The window of time Katie was killed in is small. Investigators have narrowed it down to sometime between 12:20am and 1am who could have done something so brutal, likely be covered in blood, yet clean up and get away without being seen in such a short period of time, and also evade cameras. And then there's Bowie. Many have wondered, wouldn't Bowie, Katie's pit bull, protect her if she was being attacked? Police told the public that there may be a, quote, familiarity between Katie and her killer. It seems the killer knew Katie's routine and knew Bowie, so maybe he wasn't on guard. They also say the quote, overkill, meaning the brutality of her murder, was of note as well, showing, quote, high emotions. And I want to say I read the autopsy, and it is absolutely disturbing. She was disemboweled. Her eyes were stabbed. This doesn't just appear to be random. So the community thought maybe a scorned or jealous lover or maybe someone angry that she was gay, someone who hated her lifestyle. Was it a hate crime? Or maybe it was the person closest to her. Emma was looked at as a potential suspect, and to date, she has not been cleared and has been begging police to do so because she was receiving death threats from the outraged public. She said she even bought a gun for her own protection. But for what it's worth, it does not seem like Emma did this. The timing just doesn't work. She couldn't have left work and found Katie and had time to kill her before she called 91 1. And in her 911 call, you can hear someone talking to her. She's clearly not covered in blood. And for motive, all reports say Katie and Emma were very much in love and were planning their life together. And would Emma kill her beloved dog?
- [12:14]
Payne Lindsey
Over the following years, police were left without any new leads. No breaks in the case. In 2025, on the fourth anniversary of the murders, authorities appealed to the public, increasing the reward for information. It's now at $25,000. This case remains open and active, according to law enforcement, but no arrests have been made and little has been said about the DNA evidence. The city of Atlanta constructed a memorial bench and placed it in the dog park, a favorite spot for Katie and Bowie. It's a tragic reminder of the unsolved murder that sent emotional shockwaves throughout the community.
- [12:59]
Maggie Freeling
To date, no arrests have been made in Katie's case, one that seems so easy to solve. A busy park, potential witnesses, cameras nearby, potential DNA. So I figured let's get as close as we can to the investigation to find out what's going on. After a quick break, we'll be joined by retired Atlanta homicide detective Vince Velasquez.
- [13:26]
Vince Velasquez
Tron. Ares has arrived. I would like you to meet Ares, the ultimate AI soldier. He is biblically strong and supremely intelligent. You think you're in control of this?
- [13:39]
Maggie Freeling
You're not.
- [13:40]
Vince Velasquez
On October 10th, what are you?
- [13:42]
Maggie Freeling
My world is coming to destroy.
- [13:44]
Vince Velasquez
Destroy yours.
- [13:45]
John
But I can help you.
- [13:46]
Vince Velasquez
The war for our world begins in IMAX. Tron Aries, rated PG13. May be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters October 10th. Get tickets now.
- [13:57]
Maggie Freeling
And we're back. Joining me today is Vince Velasquez, a retired homicide detective in Atlanta and host of the YouTube True Crime Show Murder Mind. You've also been featured on many programs like the first 48 cold case files. You have an extensive history in law enforcement. Am I correct in saying that you were also a hostage negotiator?
- [14:22]
Vince Velasquez
That's correct. I was actually a hostage negotiator longer than I was a homicide detective.
- [14:27]
Maggie Freeling
So give me your background. Where did you start?
- [14:31]
Vince Velasquez
So like every police officer, you start on the street, in uniform, answering 911 calls. So my patrol division or area at the time was midtown Atlanta. So I did that for a while and then I went to a specialized unit that was a tactical drug street unit. And I did that for some time. That's when I became a negotiator. Negotiator in most big departments is an extra duty. You just train for it and then your team gets together whenever there's an incident, like someone threatening suicide or hostage situation. So I started doing that. And then in 2000, I was promoted to detective and went straight to homicide. So kind of dual roles. Homicide was my all day everyday job. And then when a negotiation situation came up, I would get called in and eventually I became the team leader, I guess what you would call the most experienced negotiator in the city.
- [15:28]
Maggie Freeling
When did you first hear about Katie's murder? Were you on the force still?
- [15:32]
Vince Velasquez
I was actually retired when this case happened. And like everyone locally, I was shocked to hear it's such a gruesome case. And I had a similar case that was a cold case. So my first thought was I wanted to make sure that the person I put in prison from the late 80s, early 90s was still in prison because it seemed so similar. I had a cold case where a woman was killed in southeast Atlanta, found on railroad tracks naked, and her body was carved up post mortem and even an initial in her face. So when I heard some of the facts of this case from Piedmont Park, I went on the DLC website to make sure that this Guy was still in it because I'm thinking maybe he somehow got released and we didn't know it. If he did, then you guys need to look at him. He was in prison. So I started to think like, you know, what in the hell is this case all about? And then through my contacts that I still have within the Atlanta Homicide Department, started to make some calls and asking some real pointed questions. So eventually I got to speak to the lead detective. He was a fairly new detective, but, man, when I tell you this guy's sharp, he's sharp. I said, if there's something that I can contribute based on my experience, if you could tell me what you've done or what you plan on doing, then I would be more than happy to help. So we had a long conference going over the evidence, and I could tell you from what I learned from him, this guy really crossed his T's and dotted his I's as far as his investigation goes.
- [17:09]
Maggie Freeling
So tell me a bit about that. I mean, I know some of the investigation was frustrating because there was no camera footage. Um, so when you say cross T's, dot I's, what are you talking about?
- [17:20]
Vince Velasquez
Starting with creating a timeline, looking at her common law wife as a suspect. You know, we always look at the significant other, and there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, I think that's reasonable to look at that first. And did a very robust timeline, really locking in where her whereabouts were on the night that Katie was killed. And to me, it seemed like, based on his investigation, that physically it wouldn't have been possible for her to be there. The cameras you mentioned, there's nothing he could have done, a detective could have done to change that. The cameras weren't working. But even in an abundance of caution, canvassed the entire business neighborhood looking for ring cameras or business cameras, trying to find anything, and was able to get all that footage. And still that person was not captured on video. Remember, Piedmont park is huge.
- [18:14]
Maggie Freeling
I was going to say, tell us a bit about Piedmont Park. I'm not a native Atlanta resident, so tell me.
- [18:20]
Vince Velasquez
Piedmont park is a park located centrally in a city in midtown Atlanta. It spans From Piedmont to 10th street to Monroe Drive. I don't know if a lot of people know this, but there's a good number of homeless people who actually live in the park. The park closes at 11. All parks in Atlanta close at 11pm they're supposed to. That doesn't mean that they're aren't people in the parks. I remember in years gone by where the police department did roundups where they would clear the park of homeless people, et cetera, et cetera. So there were. There were people living there. And I don't say that to mean that my idea is that it was a homeless person that committed this crime. But this detective also explored that possibility. Finding homeless encampments, interviewing people who frequent the park, other people who are out walking their dogs, coming out on several occasions at night, trying to see what the frequency is, see if he recognized anybody from the previous night, like a regular, see if they knew anything. Knocking on doors, leaving flyers, and really trying to do a robust canvas to try to find somebody who may have seen something, although the cameras were not working. So those are some of the things that they did. The crime scene itself, it's graphic and gruesome as it was. It's not an easy scene. When someone's shot, typically versus being stabbed, there's usually less blood, there's less mess, there's less contamination. Typically with knife wounds, there's an altercation versus being shot where someone is shot. Not much of an altercation. They usually may stumble a little bit or fall right there. And the crime scene has come somewhat pristine. It's easy or easier to process. It's easier to look around and see what should be there and what shouldn't be there. With knife attacks, it's a little different. There's blood, there's usually a confrontation. It's not instantaneous death. That could happen with gunshot wounds. So crime scenes move. So could altercation could have started here. So you've got a moving crime scene, and you've got people's feet and body parts moving around in that blood and moving around in debris and things mixing together. So it's a little more difficult to process or look for evidence. Fibers, hairs, microscopic evidence, DNA, things like that. There's contamination and cross contamination. There's three actors or three participants that we know of. There's the victim, there's at least one suspect, and there's the dog. So we don't know unless you were there, exactly how those things interchanged. We understand the dog was also killed as well. There's been speculation on, Whoa, why do you kill the dog? It must be personal. The possibilities are endless. The motive for killing the dog could be they don't like dogs. Or it could be the dog bit the perpetrator. It could be that the dog was barking too loudly and was drawing attention. There's all kinds of possibilities. So one has to, as a detective, has to keep those ideas open.
- [21:23]
Maggie Freeling
She was brutally murdered, stab Wounds everywhere. You made some notes about specific ones on her back, maybe, and what those might mean. Can you talk about the wounds and kind of what you've inferred from her autopsy?
- [21:35]
Vince Velasquez
So she had quite a few stab wounds in her back, what that could mean. And I'm not saying I think this is what happened. These are just possibilities. So as a detective, you have to create theories. Not one, not two, but as many as you can. And you have to, like, really keep those categorized to shift when evidence comes to support a particular theory. So one theory that I have that could have happened, a couple of those wounds were not very deep in the back, and they were somewhat superficial, where the attack starts from the back, where she gets struck by a knife. And then, of course, your natural inclination is to run. No one is going to stand there while they're getting stabbed in the back. So those stab wounds are happening as she is running away, maybe dragging the dog along with her, maybe not. And then at some point, she falls, and then the assailant is now on top of her. And now at this point, we know based on the rest of the stab wounds, she's got stab wounds in her arms, she's got stab wounds in her hands. Those are what we call defensive wounds. Very common for victims to try to grab the knife as it's coming or block the knife instinctively as it's coming down. That explains these wounds here. And then, as we know, the multitude of other stab wounds that are on her torso, especially around her breasts, her chest, her neck, it's egregious. It's so many. And it's just what speaks to me is rage. Like, this person was literally in a fit of rage when they were doing this. Now, here's what's interesting with that amount of stab wounds and the amount of blood that would be associated with that, it's my opinion that there's no way this assailant could not have been drenched in blood wherever this person went after the attack. Now, again, as a detective, you know, let's put our hats on for a second and let's think about, what are those possibilities? Well, we could pretty much narrow down a few. He didn't jump on an airplane, right? We know that. There's no helicopter landed and flew him away. So he ran away, he walked away. He was on a bicycle, he was on a car, or he got on public transportation. So now let's think about this. This person is likely covered in blood. So would he have gotten on public transportation? Likely not. Could he have had a Bike somewhere in the bushes and got on it and drove away. If you're driving by or riding a bike really fast by someone, you may see something dark colors on his dark clothing, may not see it walking down the sidewalk at a normal pace. He's probably going to get spotted and somebody's going to say, there's a guy walking down the street drenched in blood. 9, 1, 1. You need to get over here. That probably didn't happen. Did he have a car here? So all of those things as a detective are going through my mind now. Let's backtrack for a second. Let's talk about what happened before the attack. Now, if Katie was targeted and someone was actually stalking her, the motive would have to be someone who's very close to her or someone close to her. And the motive could be revenge or whatever that motive could be. But then someone would have to be positioned somewhere that they have line of sight of her house without being noticed, without being suspicious and obvious to neighbors or passerbys. And then how would they know that she's leaving her House approximately 12:25am to walk to Piedmont Park? How long would you have to sit out there until you got lucky enough to finally see her emerge from her house? I can tell you from sitting in my car doing actual surveillance of suspects, it takes hours, it could take days sometimes before we get anything. I was on a surveillance one time for almost a week, rotating shifts with other detectives until finally we saw the suspect emerge from his house. We were trying to get a sample of DNA. He smoked a cigarette through it on the ground. We picked it up and got his DNA.
- [25:55]
Maggie Freeling
He was in his house for a week.
- [25:57]
Vince Velasquez
A week. He didn't even take the trash out. We were waiting for him to bring the herbie Kirby out with the trash, and it didn't even happen. So let's consider that if someone is actually looking for her, it's 12:30am in the morning. If I've been sitting in front of your house, let's say I get there at 10pm if you haven't come out of your house by 12:30am which is a very unreasonable time to do a surveillance anyway, you're probably not coming out. So for me, I think as a detective that this was maybe a crime of opportunity. I'm not discounting it couldn't be someone close to her that knows her routine. Could be, but it also, I have to consider that this is a total stranger, someone who is deranged, probably suffering from mental illness that saw an opportunity. And we know with opportunity, all of the stars align for the worst possible reasons. You're in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that person's in the right place at the right time.
- [26:58]
Maggie Freeling
We'll be back after the break. And now here's John with this week's critical missing case.
- [27:09]
John
Today's case comes to us from namus. According to the site, authorities are searching for a man who was last seen a few weeks back off the southern coast of Oregon. The report states that on Sunday, August 31st, a boat capsized four miles off the coastline of Gold Beach, Oregon with three passengers aboard. According to authorities, one passenger was rescued, one was deceased, but the third passenger, 42 year old Jared Robert Bruner, is still missing. The US Coast Guard and local sheriff's offices have attempted search and rescue operations, but so far they've been unsuccessful. Jared is described as being 5 foot 2 inches tall with a weight of 220 pounds. He has short, buzzed brown hair and a close trimmed beard. Jarrett has a tattoo of a pair of blue and green shorts with a flower design located on the inside of his right bicep. He was last seen wearing a black hoodie, sweatshirt, camo hunting pants and black shoes. Listeners, we need your help spreading the word about Jared Bruner. You could check out the up and Vanish weekly Instagram page avweekly and see a picture of Jared and share our post for more visibility. And lastly, if you know information about this case, please contact the Curry County Sheriff's office at 541-247-3276.
- [28:27]
Maggie Freeling
All right, we're back. The dog really makes this stand out for me because to me, why would you attack someone that has a pit bull? We're not just talking like a cockapoo. She has a pit bull with her, which I'm a pit bull rescuer. I know they're the sweetest dogs, but most people think they're vicious, aggressive, violent. They're big. I can't imagine a stranger attacking her with a pit bull next to her. That also makes me think maybe this is someone who knew Bowie. Does that resonate with you?
- [29:01]
Vince Velasquez
I would not discount that. Speaking with the detective, he had to really vet out people close to this victim and try to understand motive. Like if you can sometimes figure out motive, it's easy or easier to try to figure out the who. The why can bring you to the who. You don't even need to prove motive. In a murder trial, the jury never has to understand why it happened, just how it happened and how you're involved but as the initial points of investigation begin, I think it's important to know that. Why? Knowing that her routine was to walk Bowie after she got off work, and if it typically happened between midnight and 1am it's easy to then anticipate when this victim would be around the place. She lives close to Piedmont Park. She probably always walked Bowie in Piedmont Park. So if someone close to her actually knew that, and this is the person that we're looking for, very easy to anticipate that encounter. And it could be someone who was familiar with a dog, and it could have been there was a conversation that escalated into something else. But again, who walks around with a knife big enough to inflict the damage that was inflicted on her? It's not normal. Right. I have to consider there's some premeditation there, whether it's a total stranger or not. There are people who walk around with knives all the time. Could be a folding knife that's rather large. It could be a kitchen knife. But all of those things come into play. I do think that the dog aspect of it, the possibility that the dog reacted is drawing attention. I've heard people comment, he must have killed the dog first. It could have happened either way. It could have happened where the dog was on a leash. She is attacked first, and the dog's not running away. The dog is trying to bite the assailant. And then he stabs the dog, goes back to her, and then finishes the dog off. We can come up with several scenarios that would fit. My understanding is that there was some male DNA discovered when they did an autopsy for the dog that was found in that dog's mouth. I don't believe the DNA was enough of a sample to actually get what we call a CODIS hit. CODIS eligible, which is our national DNA DNA database. But I think that is some of the things that the Atlanta Police Department right now are trying to explore. What technological advances exist today that may help get a better result in that?
- [31:31]
Maggie Freeling
One of the things you have pointed out that could tell us about this person is that she had cuts around her breasts, specifically her left breast, that you believe looked almost as if someone was trying to remove it. If that's the case, what does that indicate?
- [31:51]
Vince Velasquez
Yeah, so it's very interesting, when I read the autopsy, the pathologist writes that that incised wound was, you know, the curvature of the breast, it kind of followed along. And the breast was only attached by about three, three and a half inches of skin. So that is how much of the breast was actually cut. So it's literally hanging by a small piece of skin. That takes a long time, I would imagine, to do. Based on everything else you've done, you're thinking 40 plus stab wounds, back, front arms, hands. That's a lot of time. That just to me, speaks to the depravity of the mind of this person. It's in the COVID of darkness. I know that exact area by Charles Allen, where that gate is the entrance to the park. It's fairly dark. I'm sure there was trees that were even making it darker where the actual crime occurred. So under cover of night, with not a lot of people walking, jogging, or running through the park to see what's going on, this killer had plenty of time to commit this atrocity. But the reason they did this, again is not because, in my opinion, that they were trying to rob her. They wanted to get away quickly. Most people that cases I've had where someone is murdered, there's an underlying motive. It could be sexual assault. It could be robbery, carjacking. There's a resistance from the victim. What happens every single time is as soon as the resistance ends, the killer runs away. They want to create distance between themselves and their victim. This particular case, the time it took to do all of this damage is pretty significant. The killer really wasn't worried about that timeframe. Their motive was more. And again, let me preface this by saying I am not a forensic psychologist. I'm basing this on my experience working cases for 17 years and working with forensic psychologists. I believe that this person's motive was. It was more important to complete what they were doing than the risk of getting caught.
- [34:10]
Maggie Freeling
So what does that tell you? Because that, to me, sounds like. And I think it was Bundy. Bundy did remove breasts from some of his victims. The people that I've heard, the serial killers that I've heard, do these things take their time. It's like their ritual. And like, yes, like you said, it's about completing what they're doing. And for this person to be in a public park and not worried about being caught, that, to me, implies someone that is more on the Ted Bundy than a random angry person.
- [34:42]
Vince Velasquez
I would agree. First, I think whoever this killer is, is familiar with Piedmont park, had a comfort level there, and likely knew that there's not gonna be a lot of people at 12:30 in the morning. This could be something where there's some sexual gratification that is attached to the act itself. We don't know. And typically, we don't know these things unless two things Happen. Either the person's caught and in an interview, that's what they say, or there's a pattern that emerges where there's multiple victims, like a serial killer. We start to see the same thing happening over and over. This was no, certainly wasn't a sexual assault. And I say sexual gratification. It could just been the act of doing it, could have been satisfying to the killer. I don't know the answer to that, but I know that despite the amount of stab wounds and where the stab wounds were, the breast being cut the way it was. And then, as we know, there was this other piece to this puzzle where it appeared that letters F, A and T were carved into her torso. What do those mean? I don't know. It spells fat, but it may not be fat. It could be initials for something totally different. We don't know that. But there is a psychology involved in this. When you want to kill somebody and you want to end their life, that's different than torturing them. And I've had cases where people have been tortured. They want that victim to feel pain. But what's happening is that they're getting out that rage themselves. They're releasing it into the form of basically massacring someone, not just killing them. Now, if you really wanted to kill somebody with a knife, you could just cut their throat, walk away, and within a few minutes, they're going to bleed out and die. The ambulance would not be able to get there in time to save them. Typically, this was a case where this killer took their time, inflicted a lot of rage on this victim, left initials for whatever purpose and whatever reason those letters mean, and then tried to literally cut one of her breasts off. So this was something that, again, the possibilities exist where someone who was either suffering from mental illness and in their mind, this all makes sense. Their fixation on this victim is still personal. I've seen that. Doesn't even mean they have to know them, or it really and truly is someone close to this victim. One thing that I know that the Atlanta Police Department has done is conferred with forensic psychologists that can give insight into the mind of this or criminal profilers that can give insight into the mind of someone who would do something like that. So there's two things here. Maybe we don't know what fat means, but what does it mean when somebody just carves something on a body? What is the psychology attached to that? I don't have an answer for that, but that's very interesting to put yourself in the mind of, who are we looking at right now like who is the killer for someone to do something like that.
- [37:48]
Maggie Freeling
Back after a short break.
- [37:52]
Vince Velasquez
Limu Game and Doug Limu and I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it. Cue the emu music.
- [38:02]
Maggie Freeling
Lim Save yourself money today.
- [38:06]
Vince Velasquez
Increase your wealth.
- [38:08]
Maggie Freeling
Customize and save. We save.
- [38:12]
Vince Velasquez
That may have been too much feeling.
- [38:14]
Payne Lindsey
Only pay for what you need@libertymutual.com Liberty.
- [38:17]
Vince Velasquez
Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Fairy Unwritten by.
- [38:20]
Payne Lindsey
Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes.
- [38:21]
Maggie Freeling
Massachusetts this episode is brought to you by Netflix. Everyone is telling her she dreamt it. But in the woman in cabin 10, Lo Blacklock is determined to uncover the truth in the gripping new thriller coming to Netflix October 10th. Keira Knightley plays a journalist aboard a luxury yacht who witnesses a crime she can't unsee. Adapted from Ruth Ware's best selling novel, directed by Simon Stone. Watch the woman in Cabin 10 only on Netflix on October 10th.
- [38:52]
John
Hey listeners, if you have a tip or theories about a case you want to share or a case of interest you'd like to recommend to us, then we want to hear from you. Email us casesenderfoot tv, DM us on Instagram avweekly or give us a call at 770-545-6411. You can also join the conversation on our discord at Discord GG upandvanished. Now back to the show.
- [39:26]
Maggie Freeling
Vince, is there anything else you'd like to add?
- [39:29]
Vince Velasquez
I would leave you with this, that this is a case that is it's extremely difficult in the sense that it shocked our conscience as a community. I think everybody would agree with that because it doesn't happen. These are not cases that we see every day. The lack of evidence. And again I mentioned the perfect storm. Cameras are out, not a lot of DNA, no physical evidence. They're not going to find fingerprints typically unless you find a murder weapon at a scene like this. So all of those things are working against the police in the investigation. But I know for a fact, speaking to the detective and other detectives that assisted in the case, they are truly committed to solving the case and they are looking at all possibilities. I would hate for this to happen again. And that was my first question. Have you searched nationwide? Has there been any other case similar to this? And there hasn't. So I think if you're leaning more towards one or the other, if you had to ask me what my true thought would be as far as total stranger suffering from mental illness and someone close, if it was a total stranger suffering from mental illness. I think we would seen other cases nationwide or in the vicinity that were either close to this case or similar to it. We haven't seen that. Which now brings us back to someone close to this particular victim. And that's why it's a solitary case. We haven't seen anything like it before or even after, and it was targeted. So I think the detectives are still looking at that possibility that this is someone close to this victim.
- [41:11]
Maggie Freeling
Wow. Vince, if listeners want to find you, where can they? And do you have anything upcoming you'd like to plug or any shows you'd like to share?
- [41:19]
Vince Velasquez
Yeah. Appreciate it. So we are, we just launched our new show, the murder mind on YouTube and you can find us. Just type in the Murder mind show on YouTube. You'll find us there. We have weekly episodes that take viewers through some of my most craziest cases. So new episodes drop Every Monday at.
- [41:39]
Maggie Freeling
6Pm I have thoroughly enjoyed having you on. This has been amazing. Thank you for joining us.
- [41:45]
Vince Velasquez
Thank you.
- [41:52]
Maggie Freeling
It appears Cady Jeanness was doing everything right. She was walking her pit bull with her at night, a protector in her seemingly safe, familiar environment. It's odd no one heard her screaming or barking or saw any commotion, despite multiple people leaving or entering the park at the time police believe her murder took place. Police have released videos of potential witnesses they'd like to speak with. But four years later, Katie's murder is a tragic reminder that even a normal routine, in our most comfortable moments, we can still be vulnerable. Emma expressed this sentiment.
- [42:35]
Payne Lindsey
She was very confident. She felt safe being in Midtown and.
- [42:39]
Maggie Freeling
That in her final moments, like that.
- [42:41]
Payne Lindsey
Was taken from her. And that bothers me the most. I hope they find them.
- [42:47]
Maggie Freeling
I hope they get what they deserve. Katie's case is open and active. There's a $25,000 reward, 10,000 of which was put up by PETA to help get justice for Bowie. Anyone with information is urged to contact Atlanta Police Department's homicide unit at 404-546-4235 or call Crime Stoppers at 404-577-TIPS. Callers can remain anonymous and may be eligible for the reward. Y', all, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of up and Vanish Weekly. Be sure to tune in next week as we dig into another new case. Until next time.
- [43:47]
Payne Lindsey
Up and Vanish Weekly is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. Your hosts are Maggie Freeling and myself, Payne Lindsay. The show is written by Maggie Freeling, myself and John street, executive producers are Donald Albright and myself. Lead producer is John Street. Additional production by Meredith Steadman and Mike Rooney Research for the series by Jamie Albright, Celicia Stanton and Carolyn Tallmadge Edit and mix by Dylan Harrington and Sean Nurney. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Artwork by Byron McCoy. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Special thanks to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at uta, Beck Media and Marketing and the Nord Group. For more podcasts like up and Vanish weekly, search Tenderfoot TV on your favorite podcast app or visit us@Tenderfoot TV. Thanks for listening.