Up and Vanished Weekly | VANISHED: Denise Griffin

Date: October 15, 2025
Hosts: Payne Lindsey and Maggie Freeling
Guest: Laura Norton (Host of The Fall Line)

Episode Overview

This episode spotlights two of serial killer Joel Rifkin’s unidentified victims, known only as Victim 6 and Victim 9, focusing specifically on the mystery surrounding Denise Griffin’s disappearance in the early 1990s. Hosts Payne Lindsey and Maggie Freeling explore the challenges of identifying these women decades later, the limitations of forensic and genealogical efforts, and the larger flaws within missing persons systems. Guest Laura Norton provides expertise and strategies for pushing forward cold case investigations, while the hosts underscore the vital importance of remembering and humanizing victims.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Discovery of Joel Rifkin and His Unidentified Victims (01:51–09:30)

• The Infamous Arrest: In June 1993, Joel Rifkin was pulled over after a high-speed chase. Police discovered a decomposing woman’s body in his car; subsequent investigations revealed he was one of New York’s most notorious serial killers.
• Victims 6 and 9: Despite his confessions to over 12 murders, two victims have never been identified. Investigators—and the Up and Vanished crew—focus on uncovering their stories.
• Victim Selection & Challenges: Rifkin admitted to targeting sex workers and often mutilated their remains, complicating identification efforts.

"He's admitted to killing over a dozen women, but two have never been identified. They're known as Victim 6 and Victim 9... there's no paper trail or digital footprint to trace." – Maggie Freeling (05:08)

2. Joel Rifkin’s Background and the Ongoing Investigation (05:58–08:59)

• Early Life & Crimes: Rifkin had a troubled childhood marked by adoption, learning disabilities, and social isolation, eventually manifesting in violent fantasies.
• Detailed Confessions: Rifkin often relayed specific information about his crimes and showed what seemed like unusual remorse.
• Notable Statement:

"Some of you believe that I felt that their murder was in some ways justified because they were prostitutes. But this is untrue. I never felt that way. Some of them were my friends and were kind to me... I will go to my death reliving these horrors, but I will go there never knowing why I did them at all." – Joel Rifkin, at sentencing (08:08)

• Cautionary Note:

"Please believe that there are other Joel Rifkins walking your streets right now… I hope society can prevent this." – Joel Rifkin (08:45)

3. The Struggle to Identify Victim 6 — Possibly Denise Griffin (09:30–15:41, 13:31–15:41)

• Sparse Records: Denise Griffin disappeared in 1991 at age 24, possibly seen last in Manhattan or Brooklyn. Very little is known about her life, and there’s no clear record of who reported her missing.
• Possible Connection: Rifkin stopped on Denise’s photo among dozens of images and indicated, “She looks like number six.” He later admitted that Denise Griffin was likely Victim 6, but no remains have been found and the identification remains unconfirmed.
• Personal Details: Denise reportedly had a C-section scar, and at the time, lived in Eatontown, NJ. Legal records also mention an arrest in 1988, though the hosts stress caution with scant personal data.

"The last known sighting of Denise was May 17, 1991. There are reports that she was possibly seen in Manhattan or Brooklyn near Coney Island Hospital." — Payne Lindsey (13:44)

4. Investigative Obstacles: DNA & Institutional Hurdles (15:41–19:02)

• DNA Testing Setbacks: Rifkin kept trophies; earrings linked to Victim 6 yielded only a partial DNA profile, which cannot be processed in the database. Identification hinges on finding a living relative for comparison.
• Victim 9’s Case: Discovered in a 55-gallon drum in Brooklyn’s Newtown Creek (1992), bearing a silver snake bracelet but no recoverable DNA. Her remains are buried in a mass grave on Hart Island, making exhumation extremely complex.
• NAMUS Limitations: There are still 28 missing and over 160 unidentified females in the New York area (1989–1993). Challenges tracing records and outdated reporting compound difficulties.

"When authorities went to exhume number nine, they found her mixed with 150 other people. Sorting through everyone to locate and identify her will take time." — Maggie Freeling (15:41)

5. In-Depth Interview: Laura Norton on Cold Case Investigations (20:03–35:57)

Practical Strategies for Uncovering Victims’ Identities (20:13–24:58)

• Sources of Information: Begin with census, marriage, and birth records; old yearbooks; and alumni groups. Social media can be used to find and contact those with possible connections.
• Advice on DNA and Family Tree Searching: Locating family members is crucial to confirming genetic matches.

"You can go to libraries. What do they often have? Old phone books. That's the kind of place where we start to try and make those little connections where they're not so obvious." — Laura Norton (22:53)

Forensic and Systemic Issues (24:58–30:51)

• Partial DNA Explained: Not enough genetic markers; a full profile requires more unique segments, so close family DNA is vital for comparison.

"So they need enough of these special segments of DNA to meet this threshold that will actually help them match up." — Laura Norton (26:33)

• NAMUS Flaws: Only about half of US states require compulsory submission of missing/unidentified cases; huge backlog issues and lack of public access to many records persist.

"Reporting is not compulsory in all states. It's roughly half of the states have compulsory NAMUS reporting. So until NAMUS reporting is compulsory for all states, we simply do not have a listing of all of the missing and unidentified there in the system." — Laura Norton (27:24)

Mass Graves and Exhumation Logistics (32:24–35:43)

• Identification in Mass Graves: Cites Detroit’s Operation United as a model for slow, methodical identification using excavation (carefully digging rather than removing every individual), dental records, and fieldwork by experts and students.

"There are practical ways to do this. It's just a matter of getting organized and getting the right people in there to do it." — Laura Norton (34:20)

6. Recognizing Victims and Overcoming Stigma (36:05–End)

• Rehumanizing the Lost: The episode stresses the dangers of labeling victims and the societal tendency to forget marginalized women, especially those engaged in sex work, which increases the risk of being both targeted and left unidentified.
• Statistics and Caution: Sex workers have an 18x higher risk of violence than the average woman. The hosts emphasize, "We cannot confirm Denise or victims six and nine were sex workers."

"Far too often the victims of horrific crimes get labeled with taboo titles like prostitute... and inevitably they become forgotten... their humanity gets glossed over just because of what they do to make ends meet." — Maggie Freeling (36:09)

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Rifkin’s Remorse:

  "My victims were people with dreams and families and some of them had children of their own. What I have done can never be forgiven, but I ask you to believe me when I tell you I will never understand the part of me that caused me to do these terrible things to your children." — Joel Rifkin (08:08)

• Laura Norton's Encouragement for Community Detective Work:

  "You can find old addresses. You can go to those addresses. Libraries often have old phone books. That's where we start to make those little connections." (22:53)

• On the Crucial Public Role of NAMUS:

  "Those systems are not available to the public. And NAMUS is. So when we have NAMUS, anyone can access it... public-facing system is so essential." — Laura Norton (28:38)

• On Identification in Mass Graves:

  "This absolutely can happen. It just takes concerted community effort... and they're still closing cases one by one by one, getting people ID'd and getting remains returned to families." — Laura Norton (35:25)

Important Timestamps

• 01:51 – Story of Rifkin’s arrest and initial victim discovery
• 05:58 – Detailed background on Rifkin’s life, crimes, and confession
• 09:30 – The ongoing investigation into unidentified victims
• 13:31 – Dive into Denise Griffin’s known background
• 15:41 – Discussion of DNA, trophies, and obstacles in identification
• 20:03 – Interview with cold case expert Laura Norton begins
• 24:45 – Clear explanation of why partial DNA can’t be used
• 27:10 – Overview of the NAMUS system’s shortcomings
• 32:24 – Explanation of identification work in mass graves
• 36:05 – Final thoughts: stigma, statistics, descriptions, and a call to action

Descriptions and Calls to Action

• Denise Griffin: 5’6”, 105 lbs, blue eyes, strawberry blonde hair, a keloid on her left shoulder, and a C-section scar.
• Victim 9: 5’7”, 140 lbs, white female, 20–50 years old.
• Contact Information:
  • New Jersey State Police: 609-882-2000, reference case number H025-9325
  • New Jersey Cold Case Unit: 609-8822, ext. 5257
• If you are related to Denise Griffin or have information about these cases, you are encouraged to reach out to authorities.

Tone & Language

• The tone is empathetic, urgent, and factual—never sensationalist. Both hosts and their guest stress the importance of respecting the dignity of the victims, focusing investigative energy on remembering them as people, and working through the gaps in the current investigation and public systems.

Summary Sentence

This episode provides an in-depth look at the complexities of identifying cold case victims, the personal histories that often go unrecorded, and the ongoing effort—both community-led and institutional—to restore names and dignity to those lost, using Denise Griffin’s unsolved disappearance and possible link to a known serial killer as a microcosm of broader challenges in cold case investigation.