Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Says She's Fighting President Trump's "Illusion of Power"

Summary

Up First from NPR: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Fighting President Trump's "Illusion of Power"

Release Date: March 1, 2025
Host: Steve Inskeep
Guest: Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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1. Introduction to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's Political Stance

Steve Inskeep opens the episode by highlighting Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s (AOC) confrontation with the Justice Department, where she challenges the department to clarify if she is under investigation.

AOC [00:08]: "Important to call this administration's bluff. They rely on the illusion of power."

This sets the tone for the episode, emphasizing AOC's commitment to holding the current administration accountable.

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2. AOC's Vision for Reclaiming Democratic Power

AOC expresses her determination to steer the Democratic Party back to its foundational support among working-class voters, particularly those who previously backed President Trump in the 2024 elections.

During the discussion, she reflects on the state of the Democratic Party:

AOC [02:56]: "I think a word to describe the state of the party is resolved."

She elaborates that the party has moved past initial shock and dismay, now focusing on resolving ongoing challenges amidst a rapidly evolving political landscape.

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3. Republican Budget Plan and Medicaid Cuts

The conversation shifts to the recent approval of a Republican budget plan aimed at cutting $880 billion, primarily targeting Medicaid. AOC vehemently opposes these cuts, emphasizing the adverse effects on healthcare accessibility.

AOC [04:39]: "If that cut becomes reality, it's important for people to understand not just are people going to be thrown off of Medicaid... the erosion of..."

She warns that reducing Medicaid funding would lead to increased uninsured rates, higher emergency room usage, and ultimately, inflated health insurance premiums.

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4. Historical Context: AOC’s Rise in Politics

A significant portion of the episode revisits AOC's groundbreaking 2018 election victory against Joe Crowley. This historic moment is recounted to illustrate her impact and the fresh voice she brought to Congress.

Joe Crowley [11:36]: "I thought it was an amazing and incredible gesture. I definitely appreciate it."

AOC [11:43]: "What do you think you offered the voters that Joe Crowley, with all of his experience, did not?"

Crowley praises AOC for her direct advocacy and connection with voters, underscoring her role in addressing local crises such as affordability and immigration.

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5. Confrontation with the Trump Administration

AOC discusses the challenges posed by the Trump administration, particularly focusing on immigration policies. She criticizes the administration's approach as corrupt and self-serving.

AOC [18:26]: "I think it's important to know where this administration stands and if they intend on using political intimidation to silence their critics."

She accuses the administration of weaponizing the Department of Justice against elected officials, highlighting a perceived shift from serving the American people to serving presidential interests.

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6. Immigration Policies and Working-Class Voter Support

The episode delves deep into immigration as a pivotal issue affecting Democratic support among working-class voters. AOC critiques both Republican and Democratic handling of immigration reform.

AOC [14:02]: "I think that a lack of a path to citizenship in the United States... creates a bubbling issue that Republicans are allowed to weaponize."

She argues that comprehensive immigration reform is stalled, allowing Republicans to exploit the situation politically, thereby alienating key constituencies.

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7. Dispute with the Department of Justice and Legal Challenges

AOC recounts her recent dispute with Tom Holman, the President's border czar, over an online forum where she conducted a "Know Your Rights" session.

AOC [17:40]: "There is a member of the Trump administration who is threatening and seeks to open an inquiry. And are you going to do it now?"

She asserts that her actions were purely informational, aimed at empowering her constituents with knowledge of their constitutional protections, countering allegations of advising illegal activities.

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8. Critique of Government Efficiency and Policy Focus

Addressing broader governmental inefficiencies, AOC highlights the disparity in how government services benefit the wealthy versus the working class.

AOC [22:23]: "Our government can be tremendously efficient for the wealthy, but inefficient at times in delivering things for working people."

She emphasizes that systemic inequalities and rising living costs fuel public frustration with the government, complicating Democrats' efforts to regain trust and support.

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9. Final Thoughts: Maintaining Integrity and Fighting Corruption

In concluding the interview, AOC reiterates her stance against corruption and the misuse of governmental power. She stresses the importance of maintaining an independent and fair Department of Justice.

AOC [19:18]: "I think that this is what authoritarians do. I think that this is what kleptocracies do. I believe that this is what corrupt administrations do. They rely on the illusion of power."

Her unwavering position underscores her commitment to transparency and accountability within the political system.

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Conclusion

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s interview on Up First provides a comprehensive look into her strategies for revitalizing the Democratic Party, combating Republican policies, and addressing critical issues like immigration and government inefficiency. Her articulate defense against perceived political intimidation and her focus on empowering working-class voters highlight her role as a key progressive leader in contemporary American politics.

Steve Inskeep [26:37]: "Thanks for joining us."

For those interested in a deeper dive, the full interview is available on the NPR app, website, and YouTube.

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Notable Quotes

• AOC on the Administration's Tactics [00:08]:

  "Important to call this administration's bluff. They rely on the illusion of power."

• AOC Describing the Democratic Party [02:56]:

  "I think a word to describe the state of the party is resolved."

• AOC on Medicaid Cuts [04:39]:

  "If that cut becomes reality, it's important for people to understand not just are people going to be thrown off of Medicaid..."

• AOC on Immigration Reform [14:02]:

  "I think that a lack of a path to citizenship in the United States... creates a bubbling issue that Republicans are allowed to weaponize."

• AOC on Government Efficiency [22:23]:

  "Our government can be tremendously efficient for the wealthy, but inefficient at times in delivering things for working people."

• AOC on Corruption and Power [19:18]:

  "I think that this is what authoritarians do. I think that this is what kleptocracies do. I believe that this is what corrupt administrations do. They rely on the illusion of power."

---

This detailed summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the episode, providing a thorough understanding for those who have not listened to the full podcast.

Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez challenged the Justice Department to say if she's under investigation, it's.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Important to call this administration's bluff. They rely on the illusion of power.

[Steve Inskeep]

The Democrat wants to find her party's way back into power. It's a special episode of up first from NPR News. I'm Steve Inskeep. Ocasio Cortez wants to win back working class voters who supported President Trump in 2024, which leads to a question, to.

[NPR Correspondent]

What extent is immig as an issue part of your problem with working class voters?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I guess my question would be, what does the word problem mean?

[Steve Inskeep]

Also, did Trump get ahead of Democrats on working class economic issues and have Democrats lost ground because they're bad at governing? Stay with us. We'll put those questions and more to Alexandria Ocasio Cortez.

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[NPR Correspondent]

Ocasio Cortez is one of the Democratic Party's biggest stars. When she was first elected in 2018, she was very much an outsider, a social media phenomenon, often a critic of of her party's programs and leaders.

[Steve Inskeep]

Now she's seen as more of an.

[NPR Correspondent]

Insider, a somewhat more senior figure, still a big star. And so we brought her here to Studio One to ask what she thinks her party can do with its current dilemma. Democrats are out of power in Washington. They're watching President Trump enact his agenda.

[Steve Inskeep]

And they know the president has great.

[NPR Correspondent]

Appeal with a large part of their.

[Steve Inskeep]

Traditional base, the working class people.

[NPR Correspondent]

Ocasio Cortez would feel that she would like to represent. Here's some of our conversation. If you had to pick one word, what is a word that describes the state of your party right now?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think a word to describe the state of the party is resolved. If I had to pick one word, it would be resolved.

[NPR Correspondent]

It's not shocked or dismayed or anything like that.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

At this moment, on the defensive, I think we've moved through shock. I think we've moved through dismay. I think we've moved through the five stages of grief. I think we've moved through that defensiveness. But it is, I think, a rapidly evolving situation.

[Steve Inskeep]

Just before we talked, the situation evolved a bit more. House Republicans approved a budget plan with hardly a vote to spare. Ocasio Cortez joined every Democrat in voting no.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I do believe that the Republican Party is making certain large errors right now and that they are underestimating the public.

[Steve Inskeep]

She focused especially on one large number, $880 billion. That's the amount of savings that Republicans propose to find, much of it likely from Medicaid, which provides health care for millions. When asked this week, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson defended those cuts.

[Mike Johnson]

Those are precious taxpayer dollars, and he.

[Steve Inskeep]

Told reporters at the Capitol that the change would not affect care.

[Joe Crowley]

Can you say unequivocally that further down.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

The line there won't be any cuts to Medicaid programs?

[Mike Johnson]

Yeah. So look, let me clarify what we're talking about with Medicaid. Medicaid is hugely problematic because it has a lot of fraud, waste and abuse. Everybody knows that. We all know it intuitively. No one in here would disagree.

[Steve Inskeep]

In our conversation, Alexandria Ocasio Cortez essentially did disagree, casting doubt that cutting waste could save so much.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

If that cut becomes reality. It's important for people to understand not just are people going to be thrown off of Medicaid. Not only are Medicare recipients who receive, for example, long term care benefits from Medicaid going to be affected, but people who are not on Medicaid are likely going to see their health insurance premiums go up because the more people get kicked off of Medicaid, the more uninsured people there are in the United States, the more they use ERs, the more that they go directly to hospitals for care. And the cost of uninsured people is oftentimes then born in health insurance premiums as well, and deductibles the erosion of.

[NPR Correspondent]

Democratic Party support among working class voters has been pretty well documented. It seems to cross racial and other lines. It's real. And Democrats have talked a lot about what they maybe did wrong in the way that they spoke or the way they approached people or the way that they acted. But I wanna flip that around a little bit. What do you think President Trump has done right, that has appealed to traditional Democratic constituencies?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Some of his campaign promises. He does a good job of pairing what I would say some of the largest giveaways to the 1% and elites with very tangible policy promises.

[NPR Correspondent]

No tax on tips.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Exactly. You take no tax on tips, no tax on Social Security. These things sound great. They also directly appeal to very specific pockets of people who tend to be working class. And that creates a permission structure. Right. You toss a crumb to us and you give the farm to the big fish. And I think he's very sophisticated in how he tailors those things together.

[NPR Correspondent]

Some of those promises are things that Democrats themselves would like. Capping interest rates on credit cards, to give one example.

[Steve Inskeep]

Has there been some discussion among Democrats that.

[NPR Correspondent]

I mean, you're almost a little envious he's gotten ahead of you on some of these issues.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Well, the credit card interest rate cap is my bill from 2019 with Senator Sanders, and we're having some bipartisan momentum on it. Senator Hawley is interested in working with Senator Sanders and myself. I've also have been working with some Republican colleagues. But it is a signal that Republicans understand the trouble that they are in trying to pursue their own agenda in a very naked form. They need certain fig leafs and they are sophisticated about that.

[NPR Correspondent]

I think of another aspect of this, though. Dean Phillips, one of your fellow Democratic members, was on television this past week, Fox News, as a matter of fact, and he appeared to wish Democrats acted a little more like Trump in this way. He wished that they would appeal to business people to get smart people into government, to talk about efficiency. He seemed to wish Democrats would do what Elon Musk is doing, even if he doesn't agree with the way that Elon Musk is doing it.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I would say that instead of appealing to other politicians, we should be appealing to the American people. And if you ask the American people what they think of what Elon Musk and Doge are doing with government right now, they are vehemently opposed. The reactions right now are not just in Democratic districts, they are in Republican districts. Even Republicans in my district, they're saying, I voted for Trump. I did not vote for Elon Musk. I did not vote for this. I did not vote for Matt mass buyouts of the federal workforce. We did not vote for the corruption of gutting NASA and then having the contracts go to SpaceX. We did not vote for Starlink to start replacing critical FAA operations, which is.

[NPR Correspondent]

The thing that's in the news that's being discussed.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Yes, and I think that there is a very, very deep corruption at the core of this. If Elon Musk wanted to divest himself of his businesses and enter public service with his so called business expertise, that is his prerogative. But so long as he maintains a vested financial interest in gutting the federal government, he is acting in his own self interest and not those of the American people.

[Steve Inskeep]

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez was talking in NPR Studio 1. We met with her at a moment.

[NPR Correspondent]

When Democrats are out of power and trying to find their way back in.

[Steve Inskeep]

And we're reaching the point in our conversation where we asked about one of the most polarizing issues. Immigration surveys suggest that President Biden's handling of that issue cost Democrats votes even in some immigrant communities. So can Democrats push back against a president they see as lawless while also defending people in the country who lack legal status?

[NPR Correspondent]

Her answer comes right after this.

[Franco Ordonez]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Rosetta.

[NPR Correspondent]

Stone, an expert in language learning for 30 years. Right now, NPR listeners can get Rosetta.

[Franco Ordonez]

Stone's lifetime membership to 25 different lang 50% off. Learn more at RosettaStone.com NPR support for.

[NPR Sponsor]

NPR and the following message come from Bolen Branch. Change your sleep with Bolen Branch's airy blankets, cloud like duvets, and breathable sheets. Feel the difference with 15% off. Your first [e-mail] with code NPR exclusions apply. See site for details. Support for NPR and the following message come from Rosetta Stone. The perfect app to achieve your language learning goals. No matter how busy your sched gets. It's designed to maximize study time with immersive 10 minute lessons and audio practice for your commute. Plus tailor your learning plan for specific objectives like travel. Get Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off and unlimited access to 25 language courses. Learn more at RosettaStone.com NPR It's a.

[Steve Inskeep]

Special edition of Up First. I'm Steve Inskeep. The first time I talked with Alexandria Ocasio Cortez was was June 27, 2018. It was the morning after a primary election in New York when a leading House Democrat, Joe Crowley, lost his seat on the radio. The next Morning, we heard Crowley singing in tribute to the woman who defeated him. Let's hear that moment from 2018, born to run. As Springsteen fans, Crowley was singing for Alexandria OCASIO Cortez.

[NPR Correspondent]

She's 28 years old.

[Steve Inskeep]

She's a former organizer for presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, and she is on the line after an enormous upset.

[NPR Correspondent]

Good morning.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Good morning.

[NPR Correspondent]

Thank you for having me, and congratulations to you.

[Steve Inskeep]

Did you appreciate the song?

[Joe Crowley]

I do.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I do.

[Joe Crowley]

I thought it was an amazing and incredible gesture. I definitely appreciate it.

[Steve Inskeep]

But what do you think you offered the voters that Joe Crowley, with all of his experience, did not?

[Joe Crowley]

Well, I think for a really long time, voters in this district were yearning for a candidate that spoke directly to them and to our needs. We're having an affordability crisis in New York City. We have a security crisis with our current immigration system. And they really, you know, I think I was able to allow our community to really feel seen and heard and visited and advocated for.

[Steve Inskeep]

That was ocasio Cortez in 2018. She was progressive, a Democratic socialist, and after her surprise win that got her into Congress, she sometimes backed efforts to unseat other leading Democrats. She was said to be a member of the squad progressive women who confronted President Trump during his first term. And in 2019, Trump lashed out at them, as described back then by our correspondent Franco Ordonez.

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, he said, you know, you should go back to where you originally came from before you go speak out about how the United States government should be run. He also claimed that the lawmakers came from countries whose, quote, whose governments are complete and total catastrophe. But as you noted, they're all American citizens, et cetera, et cetera.

[Steve Inskeep]

In fact, all four lawmakers had been.

[NPR Correspondent]

Born in the United States.

[Steve Inskeep]

The harshness of Trump's language and actions about immigration seemed to contribute to his unpopularity back in 2019. But in more recent years, the issue has changed. President Biden defeated Trump in 2020, undid some of Trump's immigration policies, and then seemed to lose the immigration debate. Many voters saw the administration as far too lax toward migrants who lacked legal status. Biden finally cracked down, but was replaced by Trump, who promised mass deportations. And that led us to a question in our interview with Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. To what extent is immigration as an.

[NPR Correspondent]

Issue, part of your problem with working class voters?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I mean, I guess my question would be, what does the word problem mean.

[NPR Correspondent]

People voting for the other side and not for you feeling that Democrats are not serious about the issue in ways that concern Them.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think that we have a problem on immigration because of the lack of progress that we've had on this issue. And as we know, Republicans weaponize that lack of progress. They are completely uninterested in addressing undocumented people, in addressing a path to citizenship.

[NPR Correspondent]

Well, they do want to address undocumented people by removing them. I mean, that's what the President is attempting now.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Even then, you see what Republicans did with the Lake and Riley Act. They authorized the complete gutting of due process. So now you can take a DACA recipient, a dreamer, just accuse them of a crime, and deport them and deport them. However, they also understand that they don't even have the infrastructure to do that. It's not even about creating a deportation pipeline. They are creating a private prison camp pipeline. So they're still creating pipelines to just increase this problem here in the United States.

[NPR Correspondent]

Why do you think this issue did seem to be a political loser for Democrats among key groups and key constituencies, if what you say is true?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think that a lack of a path to citizenship in the United States, the lack of addressing comprehensive immigration reform, creates a large population of undocumented people in the United States, and that is allowed to be weaponized in many ways. We have a large population of undocumented people in the United States overwhelmingly. It is not because they crossed the southern border of the United States. It's because they came here in a documented fashion and overstayed a visa and became undocumented. And it is the lack of ability for us to expand paths to citizenship, modernize paths to citizenship over decades that create this bubbling issue that Republicans are allowed to weaponize.

[Steve Inskeep]

And you have voters in places like.

[NPR Correspondent]

Arizona, which is a swing state that Democrats lost, or Colorado, which is generally a blue state, saying, there's a lot of chaos, there's a lot of lawlessness. I don't know what to do here, who's looking out after me?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

And I think when that is paired with divestment from the social safety net, when that is paired with lack of progress on minimum wage, when that is paired with rising costs of living, it sets the stage for a strong man to point to any marginalized group and say it's their fault. Instead of looking at the gross income inequality that we have and its actual causes in the United States.

[Steve Inskeep]

Since the election, many Democrats have said that they need a tougher approach to immigration. Ocasio Cortez still argues that many people who are here without legal status should stay. And that led to a recent dispute with Tom Holman the president's border czar.

[NPR Correspondent]

You held an online forum, a Know youw Rights forum that he didn't like. What were you doing? What was your goal, as you saw it?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I was informing all of my constituents of their constitutional protections, and in particular, their constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure in the United States.

[NPR Correspondent]

Holman was upset, I suppose, because he felt that you were giving advice to people who were here illegally.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Mm.

[NPR Correspondent]

Were you?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I was giving advice to all of my constituents, yeah.

[NPR Correspondent]

He said he was going to report you, or even that he did reach out to the Department of Justice. Have you heard from the Department of Justice?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I have not, and I intend on reaching out to the Department of Justice to inquire.

[NPR Correspondent]

Really? What would your question be for the Department of Justice?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Well, there is a member of the Trump administration who is threatening and seeks to open an inquiry. And are you going to do it now?

[Steve Inskeep]

After our interview, Ocasio Cortez sent a letter to the Justice Department, which she shared with npr. It asks Attorney General Pam Bondi if she is, quote, yielded to political pressure trying to weaponize the agency against elected officials whose speech they disagree with. We reached out to the Justice Department, and they told us they received the letter. They say they also just received, quote, 29 violent cartel leaders who were recently extradited back to the United States. We are more focused on the latter.

[NPR Correspondent]

The Justice Department says, without directly addressing.

[Steve Inskeep]

Whether AOC is under investigation or not.

[NPR Correspondent]

Here's more of our interview with the New York Democrat.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think it's important to know where this administration stands and if they intend on using political intimidation to silence their critics.

[NPR Correspondent]

The interim U.S. attorney here in Washington, D.C. where we are, Ed Martin, has several times said he has reached out to specific Democratic lawmakers, such as Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, to ask for clarification about various remarks that he regarded as threatening. I'm interested if you or your fellow Democrats are at all feeling intimidated or silenced.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I'm not. I think it's important to call this administration's bluff. I think that this is what authoritarians do. I think this is what kleptocracies do. I believe that this is what corrupt administrations do. They rely on the illusion of power.

[NPR Correspondent]

Do you think other Democrats are watching their words?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think it's certainly possible, but I'm not sure. I cannot think of or point to any individuals who have said that. I do think that there are Democratic members of Congress who are preparing for that possibility.

[NPR Correspondent]

How do they prepare?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think they look to the possibility of litigation I think they're saying, you know, do we have the best teams possible in order to carry out our work?

[NPR Correspondent]

Some Republican or many perhaps will be listening to this and thinking, wait a minute. Actually, you're the ones who are prosecuting us. You were the guys who are weaponizing the Justice Department. How would you respond to somebody who.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

May be thinking that in what way? In what way is it is the very presence putting Trump on trial would be their example? I suppose, yes. I mean, here's the deal. In the United States, there is a jury where we are judged by our peers, and he was found guilty in court on 34 felony charges. If people want to say it was weaponized, I mean, it is hard pressed to say that there's a partisan argument for that. You have Senator Menendez, famously, Democratic senator from New Jersey. Democratic senator from New Jersey convicted.

[NPR Correspondent]

Yeah.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

And to 11 years in prison. However, what is weaponization is that previously independent Department of justice and the U.S. attorney's office now turning around saying, we are not the American people's lawyers anymore. We are the president's lawyers. And that is a dramatic shift. That is a dramatic change in the structure of our justice system.

[NPR Correspondent]

It seems clear you would want to make a case, then that this is a corrupt administration that's abusing power. Does the Democratic Party have some challenge in making that case, though, because of certain things that go on in the Democratic Party or even in your state of New York or your city of New York, where your mayor is. Eric Adams.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Yeah.

[NPR Correspondent]

Who was indicted until recently, just for starters.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Well, you know, I think it is important that we be not hypocritical in that. I've called for Eric Adams, Mayor Eric Adams, to resign or be removed if he refuses to do so. There was a pretty explicit quid pro quo arrangement that these attorneys saw in Mayor Adams approaching the Trump administration, saying, hey, you let me off the hook, and I will exchange public policy implementation. Which is just as damning not only for Eric Adams, it's also equally damning in terms of corruption in the Trump administration.

[Steve Inskeep]

Is there another problem Democrats face?

[NPR Correspondent]

Because you would like government to work, and there's a broad perception, including among many liberals and progressives, that government doesn't work very well. It takes forever to build something in this country. To give a very obvious example, we do have a couple million federal workers, and a lot of people aren't sure how those people really touch their lives or do anything for them. Do you think government really isn't working well enough?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think it is about our society writ Large is completely slanted so that the gains that we have go to the wealthy, go to the corporate class, go to the largest corporations in America who pay the least in taxes, and everyday working people seeing the least benefit in society. And I think the boiling rage that exists at this sense of injustice, that you are working 1, 2 jobs, you are scared to go to the doctor because you don't think that you'll be even able to afford a blood test, that you're working tirelessly and you not even making 8, 9 bucks an hour in a lot of places in this country. And then on top of it, everything feels increasingly like a scam, that not only are grocery prices going up, but it's like everything has a fee and a surcharge. And I think that anger is put out at government. It is put out at a lot of different areas. And in terms of efficiency, our government can be tremendously efficient for the wealthy, but inefficient at times in delivering things for working people. That is not the same thing as justifying, cutting the very few things that people actually interface with. Going after the post office, going after the va, going after Medicaid and Medicare, those are two entirely different propositions.

[NPR Correspondent]

Would you like a president to go in and break some China and mess things up? Even if you don't like the way this president is trying to do that?

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

I think when we talk about breaking things, messing things up, I mean to the faa, no to the nih, no to our ability to contain Ebola before it gets on a plane and comes into the United States. No, I don't want someone being reckless with the most critical infrastructure. I don't want someone being reckless abandoning experimental medical devices that are implanted in everyday Americans who have no other recourse because their disease is so far progressed. I actually don't want someone taking a wrecking ball to someone's chemotherapy to just see what happens. Now I do think that we can examine certain things like Medicare Advantage that I think is a scam that in the name of so called efficiency, ironically enough, we have handed over huge amounts of healthcare disbursements to private insurers who are pocketing it and giving less coverage to the people who receive this than ever before. Sure, yeah, let's go after that. But I don't think we just destroy everything that we have worked so hard for as a country to become innovative, to become just to have some of the only lifelines that people have in this country to a roof over their head or food in their children's stomach. No, I don't think that we gamble with that.

[NPR Correspondent]

Representative Ocasio Cortez, thanks so much for coming by.

[Alexandria Ocasio Cortez]

Of course. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

[Steve Inskeep]

Alexandria Ocasio Cortez spoke with us In NPR Studio 1 here in Washington, D.C. you can watch the full interview on camera at the NPR app or on our website, npr.org or on YouTube. This special episode of up first was edited by Susan Davis, Kelsey Snell and Rena Advani. It was produced by Adam Birn. Engineering support came from Neil Tivolt and Hannah Glovna. And our executive producer is Kelly Dickens. I'm Steve Inskeep. Thanks for joining us.

[NPR Sponsor]

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