Up First from NPR – “Carlson’s War: Part 1”
Date: November 9, 2025
Host: Ayesha Rascoe
Featured Reporter: Quill Lawrence
Episode Theme:
A special, in-depth Sunday Story for Veterans Day, chronicling the harrowing journey of Iraq war veteran Dave Carlson over the past 10 years — from combat, through desperation, to incarceration. Reporter Quill Lawrence, who has covered veterans for NPR for over a decade, explores what happens when a decorated vet with severe PTSD faces the American criminal justice system, and what society might owe those who have served.
Episode Overview
This episode departs from the typical quick news format to present Part 1 of a deeply personal, decade-long reporting project. Quill Lawrence shares the story of Dave Carlson, a combat veteran whose struggles with trauma, addiction, and mental health brought him from decorated service in Iraq to prison in Wisconsin. With candid interviews and raw insight, the episode explores the intersecting failures of mental health care, the military, and the criminal justice system for America’s veterans.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. How Quill Lawrence Became NPR’s Veterans Reporter
[01:02]
- Quill’s background as a war correspondent in Iraq and Afghanistan gave him firsthand perspective into the lives of U.S. troops.
- He transitioned to covering veterans on the home front, motivated by a personal and professional need to understand how soldiers adjust to civilian life after war.
- "I just started thinking, what the hell are these troops going to do when they get home? ...How are they not going to resent the country that sent them to fight and possibly die at war and then... just stop paying attention to the wars?" — Quill Lawrence
2. Introduction to Dave Carlson: War Hero to Inmate
[06:13 - 07:41]
- NPR’s only mainstream national network with a dedicated veterans reporter brings focus to a unique and largely unaddressed group: incarcerated veterans.
- Lawrence begins a ten-year relationship with Dave Carlson, a National Guard combat vet turned prisoner after a string of crimes post-deployment.
- The episode opens on Carlson’s sentencing hearing: “I’m trying to square this thoughtful, decorated combat vet I’ve been on the phone with, with this criminal defendant sitting in the dock.” — Quill Lawrence
3. Dave Carlson’s Early Life and Military Path
[10:22]
- Carlson’s turbulent childhood featured addiction, violence, and parental instability. Both parents experienced trauma: his mother faced addiction and suicide attempts, his father, a Vietnam vet, was involved in drugs and crime.
- A promising high school athlete and student, he spiraled in college, plagued by depression and social anxiety, and in need of purpose.
- "I was angry for a lot. For much of my life, I was very angry with my dad." — Dave Carlson [10:33]
- The National Guard offered a way out: “I was like, I’m good at this. Like, I can do this. And I feel something, like ...purpose.” — Dave Carlson [12:41]
4. Deployment to Iraq: Bonds, Loyalty and Survivor’s Guilt
[14:11 - 20:51]
- Carlson thirsted for action on his first tour, forging deep loyalty with regular army units.
- He idolized and patrolled with Army Sergeant Alwyn Cash, who would later earn the Medal of Honor.
- In a cruel twist of fate, Carlson was held back from a mission—one that ended in tragedy: “I should have been there. Like, why wasn’t I there? Why did those guys die? Why did I survive? And those questions, they still haunt Dave Carlson even all these years later...” — Quill Lawrence [19:37]
- Deeply emotional moment as Carlson reflects on the loss: "Burned to death in that...In that." — Dave Carlson [20:10]
(Quill gently helps Carlson through the memory)
5. Coming Home, Failing to Reintegrate, and Return to War
[21:39 - 24:42]
- Carlson struggled to fit back into civilian life after deployment; the National Guard’s model meant veterans scattered, not reintegrating as a unit.
- He quickly itched to return to Iraq — and did, keeping it secret from his girlfriend.
- In his second tour, his sense of detachment grew: "I just sat there like, I just don’t give a fuck. ...I’m seeing tracers everywhere. I’m fucking hearing gunshots, and I’m just calm as shit. There was no sense of urgency." — Dave Carlson [22:42]
- On returning, his instability increased: “I picked him up at the airport, and I could not believe it ...His eyes were just completely blank...They really got your son this time.” — Heidi Carlson, Dave’s mother [23:21]
- A dangerous run-in with the police, nearly resulting in suicide by cop, followed: “I need to just, like, raise it up and just, like, fucking end this shit, right? And I was just scared to do it.” — Dave Carlson [24:17]
6. Outreach, Rock Bottom, and the Role of Fellow Veterans
[25:46 - 27:53]
- Despite a string of arrests and VA interventions, Carlson continued to spiral, terrifying his family.
- His mother contacted Mike Orbin, a Vietnam veteran who had spoken publicly about his own long-term struggles and recovery.
- Mike found Carlson at a bus station, battered and lost: “When he sat down ...his forehead just fell down on top of his hands and he started crying. And I just looked at him and my heart was just breaking for him ...He said, ‘I just don’t even know who I am anymore.’” — Mike Orbin [27:22]
7. Incarceration as Turning Point
[27:53 - 28:34]
- Finally, repeated legal troubles bring Carlson to the Dodge Correctional Institution.
- “It’s there in probably what’s the worst place for a veteran with PTSD that Dave Carlson begins to find a way out.” — Quill Lawrence [28:26]
- “That was probably the big turning point for Dave, where he just started kind of rebuilding.” — Mike Orbin [28:34]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On the broken reintegration process:
“When you’re in the Guard, everyone scatters to their towns and cities and goes back to their day job, and they’re just back on the streets of the USA. ...So, not at war, but not really a civilian.”
— Quill Lawrence [21:39] -
On survivor’s guilt:
“Why did those guys die? Why did I survive? ...They still haunt Dave Carlson…”
— Quill Lawrence [19:37] -
On the double trauma of war and home:
“Our lives have been consumed with ... Where's David? What’s he doing? Is he alive? Is he okay? ...I have a son who served his country, and now he’s out in the woods somewhere, homeless.”
— Heidi Carlson [25:55] -
On the identity crisis of returning veterans:
“He said, ‘I just don’t even know who I am anymore.’”
— Mike Orbin [27:22]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- 00:44 – Why Quill Lawrence became NPR’s dedicated veterans reporter
- 06:13 – Beginning of Dave Carlson’s story, first jail interview
- 10:22 – Carlson’s childhood and early trauma
- 12:41 – National Guard enlistment and purpose
- 15:42 – Iraq deployment details, relationship with Sgt. Cash
- 18:40 – The ambush, Cash’s heroism, survivor’s guilt
- 21:39 – Coming home, civilian confusion, return to Iraq
- 22:42 – Emotional detachment during second deployment
- 23:21 – Family’s perspective on postwar change
- 24:17 – Suicide attempt by cop, forced VA intervention
- 25:55 – Family and fellow veteran mobilizing to help
- 27:22 – “I just don’t even know who I am anymore...”
- 28:26 – Prison as the unlikely place for rebuilding
Tone & Style
Straightforward, compassionate, and unflinching. The episode incorporates both candid, raw confessions from Carlson and moving reflection from his family and veteran peers, pulled together by Quill’s steady, empathetic narration.
Conclusion
“Carlson’s War: Part 1” is a powerful and unfiltered look at the unseen aftermath of America’s post-9/11 wars, the enduring scars of trauma, and the staggering gaps in veteran support systems. Quill Lawrence’s decade-long relationship with Dave Carlson captures not just one man’s journey, but also the broader moral question: "What do we owe these guys?" Part 2 will continue Carlson’s story, exploring whether it’s possible for a combat veteran — especially one hardened and broken in prison — to truly find a path to healing.
Listen to Part 2 in the feed.