Dana White on Trump, men and UFC at the White House | NPR's Newsmakers

Summary

---

Up First: Dana White on Trump, UFC at the White House, and the Sport’s Global Reach

Podcast: NPR's Up First
Episode: Dana White on Trump, men and UFC at the White House | NPR's Newsmakers
Date: May 18, 2026
Host: Steve Inskeep
Guest: Dana White (UFC President)

---

Episode Overview

This special episode features an in-depth interview with Dana White, President of the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC), focusing on the upcoming UFC event at the White House, White’s personal and professional relationship with President Trump, the inclusive, global nature of UFC, issues of masculinity, fighter safety, and the intersection of sports, politics, and society.

---

Major Themes & Key Discussion Points

1. UFC at the White House: Significance & Organization

• UFC's Journey: Dana White discusses UFC's rise from a stigmatized, banned sport to hosting an event for 4,000 people (mostly military) on the South Lawn of the White House, with 85,000 more across the street and over 300,000 ticket requests.
  • “When we bought the company in January 2001, we weren’t even allowed on pay per view...now we’re on the South Lawn of the White House.” (01:17)
• Logistics & Challenges: White dislikes staging fights outdoors due to variables like weather and bugs.
  • “There’s two things I hate. I hate stadiums, and I hate even worse than a stadium is fighting outside.” (01:52)
• Trump’s Involvement: Minimal hands-on, but he did request a specific fighter, Derrick Lewis, be added to the card.
  • “He put Ivanka on it...only thing he was at the fight in Miami and he said, why is Derrick Lewis not on the card?...now Derrick Lewis is on the card.” (02:19)

2. Fighters’ Backgrounds & the UFC’s Global Identity

• Fighters’ Diversity:
  • Ilia Topuria (champion) from a refugee family in Georgia, now in Spain. Justin Gaethje (challenger) worked in a copper mine.
  • White highlights UFC’s mix of backgrounds as core to the sport’s appeal and narrative.
    • “...most sports...people that are this tough come from some tough backgrounds.” (04:08)
• Inclusivity & Human Stories:
  • Compared to boxing’s stereotypes, UFC fighters have varied stories—college grads, farmers, immigrants.
  • “No matter what country you come from, what color you are, what language you speak, we’re all human beings. Fighting’s in our DNA.” (05:04)
• Promotion Philosophy:
  • White says the UFC showcases who fighters are and where they come from; authenticity is key.
  • “Who are you and where do you come from? That’s what I sell every Saturday night.” (06:03)

3. UFC’s Growth & Ties to Trump

• Early Help from Trump:
  • UFC struggled to find legitimate venues due to stigma; Trump’s Atlantic City properties hosted their first events, giving UFC a platform.
  • “Trump ended up reaching out to us...invited us to the Taj, and that was where we did our first two fights.” (07:15)
• Trump’s Persona & Fighting:
  • White describes Trump as the ‘toughest, most resilient human being’ he’s met, likening leadership and fighting spirits.
  • “He’s the toughest, most resilient guy I’ve ever met, by far.” (08:03)

4. Immigration, Contradictions, & Fighter Stories

• Tension Noted:
  • Inskeep questions the contradiction of immigrant fighters starring at a White House event given Trump’s immigration policies.
  • White: Trump supports legal immigration, not “open borders.” (09:37)
  • “What the president wants is...you have to get documented the right way.” (09:37)
• Helping Fighters:
  • White shares a story where Trump intervened to release a fighter’s wife from a Russian prison after her arrest for donating to Ukraine.
  • “I called him and he got her out. He got her released.” (11:19)

5. Health, Safety, and Longevity in Combat Sports

• Inevitable Risks:
  • White acknowledges brain injuries are unavoidable in combat sports but emphasizes that fighters are aware. (11:55)
  • “When you get punched in the head, it’s not good for you...these are all grown men and women that know the possibilities.” (11:55)
• Concussion Protocols & Medical Research:
  • UFC boasts no deaths or serious injuries in 30 years, invests in medical checks and ongoing studies with the Cleveland Clinic to monitor fighters’ brain health.
  • “We started a study with the Cleveland Clinic...scan their brains and continue to monitor their brain health throughout their career.” (15:11)

6. Masculinity & the UFC’s Appeal to Young Men

• Voting Patterns:
  • White is credited with helping drive young men to vote for Trump in 2024. Host notes current polls show declining support, White dismisses polling accuracy. (16:13)
• What UFC Teaches about Masculinity:
  • Not about aggression but about “hard work, dedication, setting goals, believing in yourself”—control, not combativeness.
  • “It’s more about controlling yourself, but being able to defend yourself.” (17:41)

7. Politics, Polarization, and White’s Own Views

• Political Involvement:
  • White says he’s tired of politics, calling it the “nastiest business there is,” after seeing what happened to Trump and the media’s behavior. (18:10)
  • “I don’t like it. I don’t like it. I think it’s dirty.” (18:13)
• White House Event & American Identity:
  • Despite assumptions, the card isn’t America vs. the world; instead, it mirrors America’s immigrant roots and UFC’s global scope.
  • “America is a country of immigrants that all came from somewhere else, and they’re all going to be represented.” (19:15)
• Freedom of Speech in UFC:
  • UFC won’t ban fighters by nationality (e.g., Russians during the Russia-Ukraine war); supports “freedom of speech—even if fighters are controversial. (20:40)
• Relations with Ari Emanuel (Democratic TKO/WWE CEO):
  • Business works because of professionalism—not political agreement; nostalgia for more bipartisan times.
  • “We’ve built an incredible team...Ari is greatest agent of all time...But when you think back...Democrats and Republicans...used to at least get together and talk.” (21:25)
• White’s Political Identity:
  • Considers himself a “1980s Democrat,” with common sense, center-leaning views. (23:01)
  • “I consider myself in the middle and probably lean a little left, you know, in a normal world.” (23:03)
  • He refuses to attack those with different politics and urges patience in judging political leaders. (24:11)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On UFC’s transformation:

  • “Now we're on the South Lawn of the White House...with 4,000 people, mostly military...” — Dana White (01:37)

• On fighters’ backgrounds:

  • “People that are this tough come from some tough backgrounds.” — Dana White (04:08)

• On Trump personally:

  • “He's the toughest, most resilient guy I've ever met, by far.” — Dana White (08:03)

• On legal immigration:

  • “You have to get documented the right way...the president has ever said he doesn't want people from other countries. He has said if you do it the wrong way.” — Dana White (09:37)

• On fighter safety:

  • “Nothing is more important than health and safety...Never a death or serious injury in [UFC’s] 30 years. Cheerleading can't say that.” — Dana White (14:33)

• On masculinity and UFC:

  • “What this sport has...is a martial arts history...it's more about controlling yourself, but being able to defend yourself.” — Dana White (17:41)

• On politics:

  • “I think politics is the nastiest business there is.” — Dana White (18:13)

• On his own political position:

  • “I have common sense...I consider myself in the middle and probably lean a little left, you know, in a normal world.” — Dana White (23:03)

---

Timestamps: Key Segments

• [01:07] — Introduction to UFC's White House event
• [03:49] — Discussion of fighters’ backgrounds and representation in UFC
• [07:00] — Trump’s involvement with UFC, views on America and the sport
• [09:37] — Immigration policy, contradictions, and real-life stories of fighters
• [11:55] — Athlete safety, brain injuries, and UFC’s medical research
• [15:47] — UFC’s influence on young male voters and masculinity
• [18:10] — White on leaving politics and the political climate
• [19:15] — The White House card and representing American diversity
• [20:40] — Free speech, controversy, and business with Ari Emanuel
• [23:03] — White’s personal political philosophy and approach to judgment

---

Summary Flow & Tone

Through candid, rapid-fire conversation, Dana White weaves together the story of UFC’s improbable rise, his deep ties to Donald Trump, the complex politics of modern America, and his unvarnished view on everything from athlete well-being to the toxicity of political culture. The tone is frank, sometimes defiant, and grounded in White’s personal narrative of resilience and common sense, reflecting both the sport and the ongoing American conversation.

---

Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

Hi, it's Steve Inskeep with a special

[NPR Newsmakers Host]

episode from our sister show, NPR's Newsmakers. We interview some of the most influential people of our time and today we hear from Dana White, president of the UFC and a prominent supporter of President Trump. New episodes of Newsmakers can drop anytime as soon as they're available. So the best way to stay caught up is to follow or subscribe to this show on Spotify, YouTube or, or wherever you watch or listen. You can also find us in the NPR app. Now here's Dana White on NPR's Newsmakers.

[Steve Inskeep]

Dana White is the head of the UFC, the Ultimate Fighting championship, a mixed

[NPR Newsmakers Host]

martial arts, often brutal sport that he's

[Steve Inskeep]

built into a multi billion dollar business. On June 14, Dana White will stage an event at the White House for his friend, the and frequent supporter, President Trump. And we talked about that here in Newark, New Jersey, before a UFC event. Dana White, thanks for welcoming us here. This is an amazing event.

[Dana White]

Thanks to coming.

[Steve Inskeep]

We were just watching your press conference here in Newark, New Jersey, where you introduced some of the fighters who are going to fight at the White House June 14th. What does that event mean for you and for the ufc?

[Dana White]

Well, if you look at our humble beginnings and where we came from, meaning that when we bought the company In January of 2001, we weren't even allowed on pay per view, venues didn't want us and many other negative things, stigma that was attached to the, to the

[Steve Inskeep]

Sport and John McCain called it human cockfighting once upon a time.

[Dana White]

Perfect. There you go.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yeah.

[Dana White]

Yeah. That's where we were then. And now we're on the South Lawn of the White House and, you know, with 4,000 people, mostly military. And then across the street at the ellipse, there'll be 85,000 people. Over 300,000 people have applied for tickets.

[Steve Inskeep]

You're setting up a kind of outdoor arena there at the White House.

[Dana White]

Right? It's. Yeah. Which there's two things I hate. I hate stadiums, and I hate even worse than a stadium is fighting outside. There's just so many different variables you have to deal with. You know, the weather and, you know, the worst obviously being rain and lightning.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yeah.

[Dana White]

And then bugs and, you know, temperatures and lots of things that I don't like.

[Steve Inskeep]

How involved has the president been in the details?

[Dana White]

Not very. Not very. He put Ivanka on it. And Ivanka, early on when we were laying this thing out, was our point person. And the only thing he was at the fight in Miami and he said, why is Derrick Lewis not on the card? We called Derrick Lewis, and now Derrick Lewis is on the card.

[Steve Inskeep]

This is a fan. This is a fighter that he likes. He's a fan. Obviously, he's a fan.

[Dana White]

Derek the Black Beast Lewis.

[Steve Inskeep]

Let me ask about a couple of other fighters, the guys who are at the top of the ticket, and you just introduced them here in Newark, New Jersey, Ilya Tapuria, who is your lightweight champion, and Justin Gaethje is the challenger. I've seen videos. They're pretty brutal as fighters. But talk to me about their backgrounds. Where do they come from? What kind of people are they?

[Dana White]

Yeah, so Ilia lives in Spain. He is literally. It's either him or Islam Makhachev right now with the pound for pound best fighters in the world. And he is very tight with all the big, like, most famous soccer players all throughout Europe. He has unbelievable grappling, and he has even crazier knockout power. He's beat some of the best fighters in the history of the sport. And he's going up against Justin Gaethje, who is the human highlight reel. He's another one. Unbelievable power, unbelievable knockout highlight reels. And that fight means something in the division and should be a really good fight.

[Steve Inskeep]

Here's the thing that caught my attention about their backgrounds. Tapuria, the champion, I believe, comes from a refugee family, Republic of Georgia. And the challenger used to work in a copper mine. Is that representative of the ufc? People who maybe in some way are on the bottom in society, and they're using sports to fight their way up 100%.

[Dana White]

Like most, you know, most sports, whether it's soccer, football, boxing, you know, obviously combat sports, you know, people that are. That are this tough come from some tough backgrounds.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You were a boxer once, weren't you?

[Dana White]

I was. What I like about when we get. When me and my partners, the Fertitta brothers, you know, got into the ufc, what we started to like was some of these stories of these guys, you know, at the time, Chuck Liddell, I don't know if you know who he is. Mohawk, Chinese writing on the side of his head, Fu Manchu mustache and beard. You know, he looks like a serial killer, but he was actually a accounting major from Cal Poly, Matt Hughes at the time, who was a farmer from the Midwest. And these were the different types of stories other than boxing, which was. I came from the mean streets of such and such. If it wasn't for boxing, I'd be dead or in jail, which was everybody's story.

[Steve Inskeep]

Immigrants, people who don't speak English as their first language, on and on.

[Dana White]

Well, one of the things that I, you know, believed about the UFC in the early days was no matter what country you come from, what color you are, what language you speak, we're all human beings. Fighting's in our DNA. We get it and we like it. And when guys like you and I grew up, your parents would put you in karate or taekwondo. This is the new martial art that men, women, and children are taking all over the world.

[Steve Inskeep]

Has this. Has the ufc, after all these years, become an expression of your personality? It is you and you are it.

[Dana White]

Me? Yeah, you. I would say that the. The live event and the television side, I have honed and sort of dialed in over the last 25 years. But this sport has its own personality. And basically, whoever you are and where you're from, that's what I'm selling.

[Steve Inskeep]

What do you mean by that?

[Dana White]

Who are you as a person? Where do you come from? What's your background?

[Steve Inskeep]

You're talking about a fighter. Who are you as a person story.

[Dana White]

Who are you and where do you come from? That's what I sell every Saturday night.

[Steve Inskeep]

How real is that as opposed to performance?

[Dana White]

Well, you sell who they are and where they come from, and then it's up to them to perform. I always say I'm the bells and whistles guy. And then they have to come in and deliver, which for 25 years, they have. That's why the sport has grown as big as it has.

[Pop Culture Happy Hour Host]

New shows, new music, new movies. Keeping up with pop culture sometimes feels like a full time job. Thankfully, over at Pop Culture Happy Hour, it's literally our job. We break down what's actually worth watching, listening to, and pretending you already knew about. So the next time someone says, did you see that? You can say, yeah, obviously. Follow NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour wherever you get your podcasts.

[Steve Inskeep]

Why do you think the President has been such a fan since long before he was president?

[Dana White]

He's a fight fan. I mean, if you think about, you know, the Trump Atlantic City properties, he was putting on big fights with all the, you know, all the biggest stars back in the 80s and 90s, and

[Steve Inskeep]

gave you a big break, as I understand.

[Dana White]

Yeah, so what happened was when we first bought this thing, you know, it wasn't. Think about this. It wasn't allowed on pay per view. You as a grown adult, didn't have the option to pay for it on pay per view. Porn was on pay per View. UFC was not allowed. And our goal was to get onto free tv, and everybody thought it was impossible. So you can imagine Venues. Venues were like, you know, what kind of people are going to show up for this kind of event with the stigma that was attached to it? So, yeah, venues were tough to get. So we, Trump ended up reaching out to us, somehow, invited us to the Taj, and that was where we did our first two fights.

[Steve Inskeep]

Is there something about this sport that represents Trump's view of America or even Trump's view of the world? Well, Trump, it can seem like there's no rules, even though there are rules. It's a pretty brutal sport.

[Dana White]

Trump is one of the toughest, most resilient human beings that I've ever met in my life. The most. I don't know anybody, and I've been in the fight business since I was 19 years old. He's the toughest, most resilient guy I've ever met, by far.

[Steve Inskeep]

And does this represent his idea of,

[Dana White]

I think, I think fighting, I think sports does. I think the will to win, the will to overcome, the will to, you know, he has every ounce of that, plus some, even at 80 years old.

[Steve Inskeep]

He also is very frank. Like, he doesn't respect rules a lot. He doesn't respect niceties a lot. Does he like that side of the sport?

[Dana White]

Well, I don't. I don't know if that's necessarily the

[Steve Inskeep]

blood on the face.

[Dana White]

I don't know if that's not necessarily true.

[Steve Inskeep]

Tell me what is true.

[Dana White]

I think that he comes off that way. I've never, ever had anybody, including the two latest, Bill Maher and Ilia Toporia, show up at the White House and walk out the door and say, yeah, he's not a good guy and I don't like him.

[Steve Inskeep]

What is it that people who don't like him are missing? What are they missing about him?

[Dana White]

I think that, listen, no matter who you are, you can be Donald Trump. You can be the President of the United States. Not everybody is going to like you and multiply that by 10 million. When you're in politics, some people are

[Steve Inskeep]

going to be watching this, listening to this, and think there may be a bit of a contradiction, because we've been talking about how your fighters are often immigrants, people from disadvantaged backgrounds. Even a refugee, in the case of your champion fighter, is going to be at the White House. These are people, not universally, but in large measure, the President wants out of

[Dana White]

the country, and that's not necessarily true either. What the President wants is what everybody has talked about, including the Democrats back in the day. You have to get documented the right way. You know, there's a Lot of people waiting in line to get green cards in this country. You know, the borders have been open for the last four years, and lots of criminals came in here, lots of bad people. They got them out first. I don't think the president has ever said he doesn't want people from other countries. He has said if you do it the wrong way.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yes, in his first term, he did talk about legal immigration and being in favor of legal immigrants. But in the second term, they've actually canceled a lot of people's legal status. They've taken refugees and said it's time to go. I was actually wondering, as I was watching your fighters at this press conference here, some of them, I wondered if they've come to you and said, I got a problem with my aunt. I got a problem with my brother. Can you help me?

[Dana White]

There's one, a kid that retired from here who hit me up last week, and he had a problem with his wife. But he said, you know, it was 110% our fault and how this ended up happening. But can you help? And I don't think I can help, no.

[Steve Inskeep]

You didn't call up the president and

[Dana White]

say, hey, the president has done some great things. For instance, I don't know how long ago it was. Now my time is a blur to me. I've been so busy this year. But there was a girl who was a fighter's wife, and she was Russian, but she has American citizenship. She went back to visit her family in Russia, and the military kicked her door in. In the middle of the night and arrested her.

[Steve Inskeep]

Wow.

[Dana White]

They had found that she had donated $15 to Ukraine, and they arrested her and had her in a Russian prison. And President Trump, I called him and he got her out. He got her released.

[Steve Inskeep]

And do you know how he did that?

[Dana White]

He called Putin. I would assume that's a pretty high

[Steve Inskeep]

person to call in Russia to get something done. I want to ask about another aspect of your. Of your business. You've talked a lot about brain injury, which is part of this sport. It's part of a lot of sports, of course. But how do you think about it? How do you think about those guys you were just with at that press conference and their health?

[Dana White]

Yeah, it's a. It's an inevitable, you know, side effect of this business. You know, when you get punched in the head, it's not good for you. And everybody going into this knows it's not. You know, we talked about this briefly a couple minutes ago. I did it. And at that time in my life, you know, I wouldn't take back one punch now or one second of any of that is what I was super passionate about when I was younger. I absolutely loved it, and I wouldn't change a thing. And these are all grown men and women that know the, the possibilities of competing in a combat sport, and this is what they choose to do with.

[Steve Inskeep]

Why didn't you stick with it?

[Dana White]

Well, you know, what happens is one day I realized that wasn't it. And, you know, I think the hard part in this business is I've known a lot of guys that I've met throughout the years that didn't realize that and stuck around too long, longer than they should have. And sitting here right now talking to you, I guess I was right about myself. So you. It all worked out in a different way.

[Steve Inskeep]

You made a better choice. Have you ever had to have that conversation with a fighter who wants to go on?

[Dana White]

I made a better choice.

[Steve Inskeep]

You made a different choice. Okay.

[Dana White]

I realized that I wasn't the guy you wouldn't have seen me fighting in a title fight.

[Steve Inskeep]

And you weren't going to be rocky 100%.

[Dana White]

Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

So you might. It wasn't a fear of injury, of permanently hurting yourself. You weren't realizing your ambitions.

[Dana White]

Right. It's, it's, it's the, the realization when you wake up one day, it's like, no, no different than AAA baseball players or guys that are trying to get into the NFL. At some point you go, you know what? I got to pull the ripcord. I'm not going to make it. Or I don't believe I'm going to make it. And if you stick around too long trying to make it, you might miss another opportunity.

[Steve Inskeep]

Have you ever had to have that conversation with a fighter who wants to go on and you're the one who has to tell them, no, you're done?

[Dana White]

Yeah, I've had. I've had a lot of those. Not just guys that probably aren't going to be talented enough to stay here, but guys who are staying here too long past their prime, too, have had to have all those types of conversations.

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm thinking about there was a lawsuit that you settled recently having to do with compensation for fighters. And one of the fighters said publicly, I need the money because I got cte, which is a brain condition, and I can't take care of myself. That's why I need the money. You're right that a lot of sports have this problem. The military also has this problem, and they think about it and they study it, and sometimes they change their practices. And have you changed anything to make this sport a little less risky in the last year?

[Dana White]

Absolutely everything that we do in this business every day, nothing is more important than health and safety does. Think about this 30 year history of the UFC. Never a death or serious injury in 30 years. Cheerleading. Can't say that.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay, I gotcha. But there are guys like this guy with CTE who did have a long term condition.

[Dana White]

He. Yeah, well, later on in life you're gonna, you're, you know, when you are in a combat sport where you get hit in the head. This isn't like the NFL where, you know, they believe for years that helmets would protect your. Yeah, there's none of that here. We, we, you know exactly what you're getting into. You're getting hit when you get into this sport, 100%. And there's never been six to seven boxers die a year. Never been a death or serious injury in the sport. We spend the money to make sure that two healthy guys are stepping into the octagon. We have the proper medical attention there that night. And after, after the fight, the other thing that we do is we started a study with the Cleveland Clinic where we go in and we scan their brains and we continue to monitor their brain health throughout their career.

[Steve Inskeep]

I want to go on to another topic. You get a lot of credit for encouraging young men particularly to vote for Trump in 2024.

[Dana White]

Right.

[Steve Inskeep]

And a lot of them did. I mean, young people generally vote Democratic. About half of young men 18 to 29 voted for Trump, which was a big deal. And now, according to surveys, a lot of them have backed away. His approval rating is very low among young men. Why do you think that would be?

[Dana White]

I don't know if that's true.

[Steve Inskeep]

Well, the Harvard survey is 28% approval.

[Dana White]

They also said he wasn't going to win the election. All these studies are polls that they did both times. So I don't, I don't really believe much in polls. He wasn't supposed to win the first election and he wasn't supposed to win the second election based on polling, and he won both. So. So you don't, I don't listen to any of that stuff. I think that, you know, the, during the COVID craziness and all the stuff that went on during that time, a lot of young men felt displaced and, you know, a lot of negative things were being said about young men. And, you know, obviously this sport speaks to young men. A lot of the guys in this sport speak to young men. You know, not personally, but, you know. Yeah. And, you know, we supported Trump.

[Steve Inskeep]

What does this sport say? What message does it send about what it means to be a man?

[Dana White]

What does this sport say about what it means to be a man? Hmm. I don't know. I think that hard work, dedication, setting goals for yourself, believing in yourself, Those type of things.

[Steve Inskeep]

Does it say something about the need to confront people, to be aggressive, to be in combat?

[Dana White]

No, I, I, I don't think you need. This sport says to be aggressive. It's the exact opposite. Really. What this sport has, is, is a martial arts history, and in martial arts, it's more about controlling yourself, but being able to defend yourself.

[Steve Inskeep]

I want to ask another question. You said after speaking for Trump at the convention in 2024 and speaking upon its victory, you were quoted as saying you were done with politics.

[Dana White]

Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

You said you were done with this, to be exact.

[Dana White]

Right? Yeah, that's exactly what I said.

[Steve Inskeep]

Why?

[Dana White]

Listen, I don't know how anybody could stay involved in politics as a career politician or. Yeah, it's just, I don't like it. I don't like it. I think it's dirty, especially after seeing what happened to him, you know, going into that second election. The media, the things the media said about him, and it's just, all of it's nasty. And the day and time we live in now with social media, I mean, it's, everybody has an opinion and we all have to hear it if you're on social media. But I'm in the fight business my whole life, and I just think politics is the nastiest business there is.

[Steve Inskeep]

But does the White House event bring you right back into politics? It's on Trump's birthday.

[Dana White]

It landed on Trump's birthday. It's the 250th birthday of America.

[Steve Inskeep]

It's coming up. Yeah, yeah, true. It's Flag Day.

[Dana White]

It's coming up. That's what we're celebrating.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

[Dana White]

Yeah, we're celebrating America's 250th birthday on the lawn of the White House. And, you know, there possibly couldn't be a greater honor than that, especially for me as an American. And I think that everybody thought that I was going to build a card, America versus the world, where we did the exact opposite. America is a country of immigrants that all came from somewhere else, and they're all going to be represented. I tried hard to have a Chinese fighter on the card, too, but didn't work out.

[Steve Inskeep]

I want to underline that for people who don't Follow this. Like the old time WWF was, you know, there's the Iron Shake and people could hate the foreigner. And you're saying you didn't want to do that?

[Dana White]

Well, it wasn't about that. That wasn't my thought process. But it was, you know, everybody thought that there was going to be, you know, it's the 4th of July, it's 250 50th birthday of America. An American versus, you know, a foreigner, where hopefully all Americans win in America feels, you know. No, we did the exact opposite. We are a global sport and, you know, I always have to deal with something bad going on in the world when you're a global sport. When the Russia and Ukraine war started, you know, I had people going, are you going to have Russia? Yeah, we're going to have Russians fight. We have Russians under contract. This is how, you know, my guys feed their families.

[Steve Inskeep]

So you weren't going to be like the Olympics and say, don't compete.

[Dana White]

I don't do that, you know, and. And everybody that fights in the ufc, America is a free country. There's free speech. And, you know, like I said, whoever you are, Sean Strickland, one of the

[Steve Inskeep]

fighters you were just introducing.

[Dana White]

Yeah, he's a nightmare. A nightmare. Says horrible things about lots of different people. And, you know, freedom of speech.

[Steve Inskeep]

I want to note what for some people is an irony. You're a friend of the President, you've been very close to the president. You're doing this event on the President's back lawn, and your boss is Ari Emanuel.

[Dana White]

Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

Big time Democrat.

[Dana White]

Funny is that.

[Steve Inskeep]

Could you explain how that works, far

[Dana White]

left as you could possibly get? Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

How's that work? I mean, how do you work?

[Dana White]

Great, actually. We. We are. We've built an incredible team in the new business that we've built over the last 10 years, which is TKO. We built an incredible team with him. Everybody plays a role in all the different businesses and, you know, Ari is greatest agent of all time and, you know, he adds a lot to this bit. But when you think about where we are in the world right now, like, we're talking about all these young people that are into politics. When I was in my 20s, I didn't even know who the governor was. Okay. You didn't think like that. We're more political than we've ever been now. But when you think back to the Democrats and the Republicans of the 80s and 90s, they used to at least get together and talk. It's like we're at a place where people can't even talk anymore. And if, you know, if they find out that I'm friends with the president, I'm a MAGA piece of, you know, and people who don't even know me, you know, have these ideas about me. And the same. I actually just, I mean, I'm talking to NPR right now. Right. I talk to everybody. I did a CNN interview about two weeks ago at the office and it was awesome. It was a great interview. They asked great questions. She was a very, very smart woman with great follow up questions. And I like talking to everybody. I have no problem with any of this stuff.

[Steve Inskeep]

Did you tell somebody I'm not political? Did you tell somebody recently you feel like you're a 1980s Democrat?

[Dana White]

Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

Words to that effect.

[Dana White]

Fact. Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

So what does that mean?

[Dana White]

It means that I have common sense. And whether you're right or left, I consider myself in the middle and probably lean a little left, you know, in a normal world. And. And, you know, I don't hate anybody because of their politics or what they believe. I don't. If you look at any of my speeches that I've ever done at the Republican convention, tell me one thing that I've ever said bad about somebody who's Democratic or leans left. I don't.

[Steve Inskeep]

If you lean a little left, is there a political issue the president is wrong about, from your perspective?

[Dana White]

I don't know. I don't really. Every four years somebody else is going to come in. Nobody's ever going to 100% agree with the president whether they're left or right. And, you know, I think what you do is this is what happens. Like, I'll be putting on a fight on Saturday night and you'll have a group on the Internet going, this fight sucks. What do you mean this fight sucks? This fight hasn't even happened yet. You can't judge the fight until the fight's over. That's my ride.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay?

[Dana White]

You can't judge the fight until the fight's over. The president has three more years. You might not love everything that's going on. Well, you don't know everything. We don't know everything that's going on behind the scenes. Judge him in three more years when his term is up. I'll see how he did in a four year term.

[Steve Inskeep]

I hope people can hear that. We're hearing a helicopter overhead. It's landing on the roof to take you away.

[Dana White]

Mm.

[Steve Inskeep]

Dana, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much, sir.

[Dana White]

Thanks for coming out.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay. Have a good flight.

[NPR Newsmakers Host]

Just a reminder that new episodes of newsmakers drop whenever they're available. We share them on up first when we can, but the best way to stay caught up is to follow or subscribe to the show on Spotify, YouTube or wherever you watch or listen. You can also find it in the NPR app. And remember, newsmakers like Upfirst relies on supporters who value independent journalism and a free press. Join NPR today to support our work and get perks from the podcasts you trust. Go to plus.NPR.org I'm Steve Inskeep. Thanks for listening to up first from NPR News.