Dave Portnoy on Trump, the manosphere, and his advice for Democrats

Summary

Podcast Summary: Up First from NPR
Episode: Dave Portnoy on Trump, the Manosphere, and His Advice for Democrats
Release Date: June 9, 2025

In this special edition of NPR's Up First, host Steve Inskeep engages in an in-depth conversation with Dave Portnoy, the outspoken founder of Barstool Sports. The discussion delves into Portnoy's perspectives on politics, media relations, the manosphere, and strategies Democrats might employ to reconnect with male voters. The interview provides a comprehensive look into Portnoy's influence in the sports and media landscape, as well as his unabashed views on contemporary political dynamics.

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1. Portnoy’s Relationship with the Media

Host Introduction:
Steve Inskeep sets the stage by highlighting Portnoy's contentious relationship with traditional media outlets.

Notable Exchange:

• Steve Inskeep [00:02]: "Dave Portnoy has opinions about Donald Trump."
• Dave Portnoy [00:24]: "They asked me for a quote about something the other day. I said, I'd rather put a pencil in my eye than speak to you guys."

This exchange underscores Portnoy's skepticism and frustration with mainstream media, positioning him as a defiant voice against traditional journalistic norms.

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2. Support for Donald Trump and Voter Dynamics

Portnoy elaborates on his continued support for Donald Trump, despite economic downturns attributed to Trump's policies.

Key Points:

• Portnoy maintains loyalty to Trump, citing adherence to his campaign promises, such as implementing tariffs.
• He acknowledges financial losses resulting from these policies but remains steadfast in his political alignment.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [00:39]: "I was mad, but I told myself I was like, he said he was going to do tariffs."
• Dave Portnoy [21:05]: "He [Trump] is definitely scaring people, but he was scaring people. He's been scaring people."

Portnoy's commentary reflects a nuanced support where he appreciates Trump fulfilling his promises, despite adverse economic effects.

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3. Evolution and Business Model of Barstool Sports

Portnoy provides a retrospective on Barstool Sports' inception and growth, emphasizing its adaptability and focus on the evolving interests of its audience.

Key Points:

• Origins: Started as a four-page gambling newspaper distributed in Boston subways, Portnoy handled all roles from writing to sales.
• Growth Factors: Emphasis on tapping into the rising gambling industry and the legalization of sports betting, which transformed Barstool into a profitable venture.
• Content Strategy: Focuses on topics appealing to sports enthusiasts, gambling aficionados, and now, politics, tailored to conversations one might have in a bar setting.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [03:26]: "Barstool sports was supposed to mean anything. Guys would talk about sitting down at a bar, watching sports."
• Dave Portnoy [04:26]: "But the Internet, without the Internet, I'm not here with Barstool and Barstool isn't here."

This segment highlights the importance of timing and adaptability in Barstool's success, leveraging digital platforms to expand its reach.

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4. The Manosphere and Barstool’s Positioning

The conversation shifts to the concept of the manosphere and how Barstool Sports fits—or deviates—from this classification.

Key Points:

• Manosphere Association: Portnoy addresses being lumped into various "manospheres," acknowledging some alignment but also pointing out the diversity within Barstool’s content.
• Audience Segregation: While Barstool caters to both male and female audiences, content often self-segregates based on podcast themes and topics.
• Complex Identity: Portnoy emphasizes that Barstool cannot be neatly categorized, as it hosts a wide array of podcasts catering to different demographics and interests.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [09:26]: "I think there Maybe is, but it gets. I've seen myself lumped in, in all sorts of different manospheres."
• Dave Portnoy [10:37]: "Do you accept it? Are you in that group? We have a male audience."

Portnoy’s reflections illustrate the complexity of Barstool’s identity and its broad appeal beyond traditional manosphere stereotypes.

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5. Labor Relations and Union Discussions

Portnoy discusses Barstool Sports' stance on labor unions, contrasting it with industry trends.

Key Points:

• Fake Union Incident: Portnoy recounts creating a satirical union to mock labor movements, which backfired and led to interactions with the National Labor Relations Board.
• Anti-Union Stance: He firmly opposes unions, citing Barstool's competitive compensation and low turnover as reasons why a union is unnecessary.
• Industry Comparison: Portnoy contrasts Barstool’s success without unions to other companies that struggled or failed when unions were present.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [17:09]: "No, we definitely shouldn't have a union."
• Dave Portnoy [18:18]: "Barstool Conservatism is supposed to mean anything."

This segment reveals Portnoy's libertarian-leaning views on labor relations and his belief in Barstool’s unique business model.

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6. Critique of the Political Left and Accusations of Racism

Portnoy addresses his contentious views on the political left and responds to accusations labeling him as racist.

Key Points:

• Perception of Demonization: Portnoy feels that ordinary white men are being unfairly targeted and stigmatized by progressive narratives.
• Incident Leading to Racism Allegations: He discusses an incident where he used the N-word in a past event, acknowledging it as a mistake but defending his overall character based on intent and context.
• Media Misrepresentation: Portnoy criticizes outlets like The New York Times for selectively quoting him to portray him negatively.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [13:08]: "Yeah, I'd stand by that."
• Dave Portnoy [16:41]: "Because we threatened our employees."
• Dave Portnoy [33:25]: "I would never do it again. But there is context to things."

Portnoy’s responses reflect his frustration with how past actions are scrutinized and used to define his present persona.

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7. Trump's Tariff Policies and the Stock Market

The discussion delves into Trump's tariff policies, their impact on the stock market, and Portnoy's personal financial experiences.

Key Points:

• Policy Execution: Portnoy believes Trump is executing his promised policies efficiently, even if they cause market volatility.
• Personal Financial Losses: He admits to losing significant money due to tariff-induced market fluctuations but maintains confidence in Trump’s strategic approach.
• Market Manipulation Concerns: Portnoy expresses skepticism about potential insider trading around Trump's public statements affecting market movements.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [20:04]: "Yeah, I lost a lot of money, and so I'm going to rant about that."
• Dave Portnoy [21:18]: "It does bother me."

Portnoy’s candid acknowledgment of personal losses juxtaposed with his support for Trump’s policies highlights the complexities of political decisions affecting personal finances.

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8. Views on National Unity and Societal Division

Portnoy shares his concerns about societal divisions and expresses a desire for greater national unity.

Key Points:

• Desire for Unity: He emphasizes the importance of reducing hate and fostering a sense of commonality among Americans.
• Impact of Media and Social Media: Portnoy attributes societal divisions to the amplified voices and rapid information dissemination facilitated by the internet age.
• Personal Connection: Despite his public persona, he yearns for a more harmonious national discourse.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [41:22]: "I wish we got along more. That would be kind of what would be my biggest concern as somebody that there's just so much hate."

This sentiment underscores Portnoy's overarching hope for a less divided and more united country.

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9. Personal Anecdotes and Political Aspirations

Portnoy recounts his brief foray into political ambitions and his decision to focus on business instead.

Key Points:

• Mayoral Run: He attempted to run for mayor of Boston but faced challenges in securing enough valid signatures to appear on the ballot.
• Future Political Plans: Portnoy expresses skepticism about returning to political office, citing greater potential for impact in the private sector.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [37:07]: "Yeah, I got screwed."
• Dave Portnoy [37:45]: "I don't trust those politicians."

Portnoy's political experience adds depth to his understanding of the interplay between business and politics.

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10. Free Speech and Response to Offensive Speech

The conversation touches on Portnoy’s stance on free speech, particularly when it intersects with offensive or harmful language.

Key Points:

• Support for Free Speech: Portnoy advocates for the right to express opinions freely, barring direct threats or incitement to violence.
• Response to Offensive Speech: While championing free speech, he does not condone speech that endangers others or spreads hatred, as illustrated by his reaction to anti-Semitic displays.

Notable Exchange:

• Dave Portnoy [36:00]: "I don't think it's as straightforward as what I perceive when people mention me."
• Dave Portnoy [36:09]: "I am fully free speech outside of, hey, I'm going to murder you."

This discussion highlights Portnoy’s nuanced approach to free speech, balancing personal expression with social responsibility.

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Conclusion

Dave Portnoy's interview on NPR's Up First offers a multifaceted exploration of his entrepreneurial journey, political beliefs, and the cultural phenomena surrounding Barstool Sports. His candidness about his support for Trump, skepticism towards media portrayals, and views on societal divisions provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of his influence and the complexities of his public persona. Portnoy's insights into the intersection of sports, media, and politics underscore the evolving landscape of digital media and its role in shaping public discourse.

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Note: The timestamps provided correspond to the original transcript and are included to reference specific parts of the conversation.

Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

Dave Portnoy has opinions about Donald Trump.

[Dave Portnoy]

And bros, somebody who maybe likes sports and wants to get laid, which I don't think is a bad thing.

[Steve Inskeep]

How does the founder of Barstool Sports think about voters like him? I'm Steve Inskeep on a special edition of up first from NPR News. Dave Portnoy doesn't always get along with the media.

[Dave Portnoy]

They asked me for a quote about something the other day. I said, I'd rather put a pencil in my eye that speak to you guys.

[Steve Inskeep]

But he talked with us about voters known as barstool conservatives. What keeps Portnoy on the president's side even after Trump tanked the stock market?

[Dave Portnoy]

I was mad, but I told myself I was like, he said he was going to do tariffs.

[Steve Inskeep]

Also, what, if anything, could get more men to vote for Democrats. Stay with us for an extended conversation with Dave Portnoy. Barstool Sports has been around just over 20 years. It features podcasts, web stories, lots of ads for gambling. Lots. And also Dave Portnoy talking about things like watching basketball star Caitlin Clark.

[Dave Portnoy]

Because I was there for it. I was decked out. Fever, hat fever. Oh, yeah, I saw that.

[Steve Inskeep]

His business model is to cover whatever guys might talk about while at a bar watching sports. This now includes politics, which he riffs about on social media.

[Dave Portnoy]

Thing about me is when I see something and I get an opinion and it bubbles up, if I don't get it out, I just combust. I just like, I may just explode.

[Steve Inskeep]

So when progressives denounce his language about race or women, as they often do, he says that's why men voted for President Trump.

[Dave Portnoy]

Maybe they don't trust the extreme left like you, who seemingly hate all normal white guys.

[Steve Inskeep]

He also criticized Trump when Trump's tariffs tanked the stock market.

[Dave Portnoy]

I went super viral when I said I lost $7 million. I'd kill to be back to losing $7 million.

[Steve Inskeep]

To be clear, he's still with Trump. But when we met face to face, we also heard some surprising nuances. One of Portnoy's homes is in Miami, and we met near there in a podcast studio. Let's just hear him in his own words.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Welcome.

[Dave Portnoy]

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

If people don't know, I want to know a little bit about your background. You're from Boston.

[Dave Portnoy]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Your parents were a lawyer and a teacher.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yep.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Which I like because my mom was also a teacher and my dad, too. And I read that you went to University of Michigan and got a degree in education.

[Dave Portnoy]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Were you planning to be A teacher?

[Dave Portnoy]

No, I don't think I was. So at Michigan you need a, to graduate you need to pass your language requirement, which I just could not do. So I went. I was through Spanish 3 in high school, got dropped back down to remedial Spanish when I took the test, couldn't pass it. Just couldn't pass it. I realized if I transferred to the educational school, there was no language requirement. So that was my fast pass to get my graduation degree.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You were just trying to escape.

[Dave Portnoy]

I was just trying to graduate with a degree.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah, but you had a vision of something else you were going to do in life.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, I mean there was a time when I thought maybe gym teacher was, was like something I knew I want to enjoy my life. So I was a sports guy, but I was really at that point, let me get the degree and get out of, get out of college.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And you ended up developing your own business, which is a long and amazing story. But you started, I mean before the Internet was as big as it is now, it was a physical newspaper at one time.

[Dave Portnoy]

Is this right Parcel Sports was basically a four page gambling rag, like fantasy sports, that type of thing. And I would hand it out outside of subway stations in Boston, literally up 4am screaming at people to take the newspaper. I do all the jobs in the paper. I'd write, sales, whatever, and then I'd go back to the subway station around 4pm, hit people on their evening commute. And that's how it started. And that's how it was for the beginning years.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Did you have a vision for what it was going to be?

[Dave Portnoy]

No vision. I just really want to wake up and enjoy what I did. I was interested in the gambling industry. That was something that interested me. So fantasy sports, that type of thing. I never dreamed it would be what it was today. If I could have squeezed out 60 grand a year waking up happy, working for myself, that would have been a win.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It seems to me you then caught a couple of big waves. And one is the Internet getting bigger and bigger. And the other is gambling and sports getting closer and closer, more intertwined. Is that you see it?

[Dave Portnoy]

I caught a lot of waves. I want you to say two. Right time, right place, right guy throughout the years. But the Internet, without the Internet, I'm not here with barstool and barstool isn't here. Found the right writers, right people to work the gambling part of it. We actually sort of went away for, for a while. But I would say what elevated my bank account for sure was the changing of the law in The United States, where you could now legally bet on sports, which we had started as a gambling newspaper and then, I don't know, 10 years, I'm guessing when that law changed, we were uniquely positioned with our audience for all these companies. It was a land rush. I mean, it was a gold mine of people throwing money at advertisers, different types of things. So we were just right time, right place again for that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So I think about where your business is now and it's this. I mean, you're at some intersection of sports, of gambling, of culture, a little bit of politics, a little bit of news. But like, what's the one sentence description? What essentially is it that you're doing?

[Dave Portnoy]

It started and I think it rings true for the most part. Barstool sports was supposed to mean anything. Guys would talk about sitting down at a bar, watching sports. So that's pretty wide open on what it could be. The only caveat I'd say, which I didn't anticipate, we have a big female audience too, and launched some of the biggest female podcasts and podcast stars. So it's really, really what a guy or girl may talk about in their living room or for guys in a locker room or girls in a locker room. That's really, it's supposed to be plain speak, basically busting each other's balls and having fun.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Does the, with those podcasts, does the audience segregate or self segregate, men and women listening to different things?

[Dave Portnoy]

It generally does, but it can't. It, it depends on the podcast. It depends what they're doing. Like, I worked on a podcast until recently called bff and this was basically, I thought at the time Barstool was starting to get old and TikTok was developed and we the. If you went to people on TikTok said, what's Barstool sports? They'd been like, we have no idea. So I knew I had to penetrate that audience. So we teamed up with a TikTok star, Josh Richards. Basically think of a boy band, except for TikTok. That's really what it is. And Barstool got big in TikTok. Now that audience, male, female, everywhere, talking about things for multiple people. Then we have, you know, Spit and Chiclets is a hockey podcast that'll be very male centered. Call her Daddy. Which is, I still think to date, the biggest female podcast of all time. That was really female focus. So it's just, what are they talking about?

[Unknown Interviewer]

I follow on Instagram your pizza ratings, your political commentaries. The same things are on TikTok and every other platform.

[Dave Portnoy]

Correct.

[Unknown Interviewer]

A lot of people know you from those. Are you in real life the same person that I see on Instagram?

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. It varies on what you're doing. It may be an amped up a WWE version of it at times. And I have a vehicle, obviously, to get my thoughts out with it, but it's me for the most part. I mean, again, it depends the situation. I got arrested protesting Tom Brady into Flightgate. Like, we went myself, three other Patriot fans who worked handcuffed ourselves to each other outside the commissioner's office and said, we want to talk to Goodell. I thought what they did to Brady was wrong, unfair, all of that. If I had a 9 to 5am I going and handcuffing myself to in front of the headquarters. No, I'm not like, I'm not a crazy person. But we are in an entertainment business, so that worked for us.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You wanted to make that point. You also wanted to get attention for making that point.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. And even in that we. One thing I will say about us and I've said about that incident, we do it for our readers, our fans. Sometimes I don't think about the effect beyond who I'm speaking with. And I think that sometimes surprises me. Sometimes doesn't. But, like, our crowd knows me, so we've been around 20 plus years, so they can almost predict what I'm gonna say before I say it. But a lot of times I'll see people who maybe less and less who don't know who I am and like, holy cow, what's this guy saying? And they don't have the context or anything of who we are and where we came from.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Who, in your mind is your audience? The person you're talking to when you're.

[Dave Portnoy]

Talking, I'd say a very. I'd say like 90% of, like normal Americans, like, I think the extreme left and the extreme right are like a little bit nuts. But this, for the most part, is people trying to grind through their day. They have a normal job, they're in college, whatever. They're trying not to take things too seriously and enjoy their lives and maybe have an escape for a couple minutes, you know, hours, however they consume us. But really, that's who I think our audience is.

[Unknown Interviewer]

There's this phrase that people use, I don't know if you like it or not, the manosphere. Talking about, like, male podcasters and Internet stars talking to bros about bro things. Do you accept that there is such a thing and are you part of it?

[Dave Portnoy]

I think there Maybe is, but it gets. I've seen myself lumped in, in all sorts of different manospheres. I've seen barstool Republicans. I've seen stuff that I would say are inaccurate. How they describe us. There's always bros. I mean, I think when you say the word bro, it's somebody who, you know, maybe like sports and wants to get laid. Like, which I don't think is a bad thing at all. I think that can sometimes be, like, shamed. Recently since I've been doing barstool, for sure. And there. I think the bros don't like being shamed for that. But I think it's a far more complicated word than just to be like, you know, the revenge of the nerd type guy in the football locker room who's like, nerds. Like, no, there's certainly male focused publications. And again, I guess you could say we're one. That's what people say, probably because they think of me. But then if you actually look at who we employ, we have just as much of the equal female stuff going on. So, you know, bro, what are they thinking? Rogan? They're thinking Theo Vaughn. I get thrown in that a lot.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you accept it? Are you in that group?

[Dave Portnoy]

We have a male audience. Like, we may feel very differently on. On certain issues. So I think if somebody says, bro, what are they? Love Trump. I voted for Trump. It's more an indictment of, I would say the Democrats, an endorsement of Trump's politics. I'm pro choice. I think people would say that is not a typical bro standpoint. So I think there's certain things. I think they think you're magna. I would say I'm not, you know, and I don't know that like Rogan is. I. I think there's intricacies within each person. It's hard to just say, well, that fan base or that person is all these rules.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you think that I think it's.

[Dave Portnoy]

Blunt talk is mostly just saying. I think it's being bodily blunt and more not politically correct. Like, not caring necessarily what that is. If you want to say that's bro, I'm definitely that I don't care what people think about me, but I guess I just don't think it's as straightforward as what I perceive when people mention me.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Has something happened in society that has made men like that more political than maybe they would have been 10 years ago?

[Dave Portnoy]

I would say I had no plans. If you told me I'd be on NPR in a political leaning podcast like, five years ago, I'D be like, you're crazy. It's something I have no interest in. I've actually I always with barstool prescribed to the Michael Jordan. Like red states buy sneakers and so do blue states. So we're not in politics.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You're in business.

[Dave Portnoy]

Business, yeah. In politics you're gonna piss half the people off no matter what you say. So that's a potential customer. Why don't you want them? So I didn't think I'd be here, but during barstool it became increasingly obvious that you couldn't tell jokes and you couldn't do things that I don't think you should be ashamed for or ashamed for. And I felt like that was becoming prevalent. Maybe it's because of barstool where we consider ourselves a comedy brand and would come under fire for things. So not. And it was on schools, it was in the media. And really I felt that that was a something that drove me to probably be a little bit more political.

[Unknown Interviewer]

One of your posts in recent weeks, you talk about your feeling that the political left makes I believe the phrase was normal white guys feel like you're evil or bad or something like that.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, I'd stand by that.

[Steve Inskeep]

At this point in our conversation, Dave Portnoy took a breath. Some listeners get a break now and then we will hear why. Portnoy says he stands by that.

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[Steve Inskeep]

So he asked Dave Portnoy about a social media post in which he said he felt the left was out to get normal white guys like him. Here's what he said.

[Dave Portnoy]

I'd stand by that. And there's an element to me that I felt if you're. And now this is somebody. I started a business from scratch and really didn't get any help. Moved home, worked, didn't take a vacation day for 10 years and grinded my ass off to get where it is. And I felt that there was. I should somehow have shame as being a white person who wants to make a lot of money and live a great life. And that bothered me. And there's different things that happen along the way that really reinforced it. Like, I know you had AOC on. She jumped into. Into my world. I didn't really even know who she was. But we had a rival website way back in the day. Deadspin. Hate them. Yeah, they are. They went from being like the most off the cuff non PC website to doing 180. They deleted all their. All their history and suddenly you couldn't say a joke. They apologized for all of it. Anyways. They were going out of business and they had a union and we do not have a union. And I just hate Deadspin. So I did something like, hey, the union couldn't stop these guys from losing all their jobs and we pay well and do great. AOC jumped into the fray and tweeted at us. It's like illegal for us not to have unions and threaten unions. Our reaction to that was we created a fake union within Barstool and we were actually playing it like they were fake, calling to leak like, you'll never believe what Dave is doing and all this stuff. This turned to a big thing. I had to apologize to the National Labor Relations Board. Things like that drive me nuts. Like anybody who objectively looked at what we're doing. New Barstow's like, these guys are joking around.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You had to apologize. Why? Because.

[Dave Portnoy]

Because we threatened our.

[Unknown Interviewer]

We threatened your employees.

[Dave Portnoy]

I tweeted out. So as part of the ongoing satire of what we do. Anybody who creates a union, I will bust that union to shreds and you'll be gone. And it continued like she'd say she'd throw Barb back and weed up the ante. And it was our own people with a union we had created as kind of like a Saturday Night Live skit, creating all the issues.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you think you ought to have a real union?

[Dave Portnoy]

No. No, we definitely shouldn't have a union. You know what? Our union is talented. Like if we've made. So if I look at the people who've come and gone, just briefly, like Alex Cooper Left Barstool made 70 million from Spotify. I think McAfee got about 100 million at ESPN Boston with the boys. The podcast just got 60 million from FanDuel. Also, I don't fire people. We pay great. And if you're great, we use a model like, I look at us like athletic team, Right. If you are a great player and we sign you a two year contract at the end, you'll have the option you can go get more money because we can't pay you. You stay with us and we pay you. But talent for us, we're in a talent business, so talent pays. There's no. We pay well, we do well. If you look at the history of our company, almost nobody leaves. We don't fire anybody. So we absolutely do not have a union. But I find it interesting, all the companies kill us for that debacle. They all have unions and their people all have been laid off and gone out of business. We haven't. We're thriving and have been for 20 years. And people love working for Barstool.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So there's this phrase, barstool conservatism.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yes.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Which you've heard. I looked up the definition of it on Wikipedia. I'll read you some of the words. They have barstool, conservatism, pro Trump, libertarian, no lockdowns, a Covid reference, no abortion bans, unwilling to accept liberal social norms, embraces sexual libertinism, anti authoritarian and lots of F bombs. That's their definition.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. I think most of those I agree with. So I guess a question for that would be, are they talking about me or are they talking about Barstool? Because if you look at any media organization, unless you're talking about something that's political, we have people all over the place. We have people on the far left. We have people on the far right. I mean, we have a gay podcast, we have straight podcasts, we have sports podcasts. Girl. So we're all over the place. So I don't know that it's fair to judge the whole company based on what you think the views of me are.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Is that a good summary of your views?

[Dave Portnoy]

I think for the most part it is. I think for the most part it is.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You haven't done any F bombs in this interview, by the way.

[Dave Portnoy]

No, because npr. Can I do enough?

[Unknown Interviewer]

You could do it. We could bleep. You should express yourself the way you.

[Dave Portnoy]

I feel like I'm speaking freely, but if it comes to the top of my Mind, I'll let it run.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It's available. It's available. Let me ask another question. Now, having voted for him, has Trump met your expectations so far?

[Dave Portnoy]

I think he has. I think Trump, for the most part, has done exactly what he said he was going to do. Now people are getting upset at him, trying to do what he said he was going to do, but he is, in my mind, done what he said he was going to do. Like, I had a rant about tariffs, right. Because I'm in the stock market and I do a show.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You lost a lot of money.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, and I lost a lot of money, and so I'm going to rant about that. And he had a quote later that it wasn't his stock market. I think it was Biden's. Well, that's garbage. It's yours. Your, your, your direct statements are causing it to go up and down. It's bounced back. But I was mad, but I told myself I was like, he said he was going to do tariffs. That wasn't like he was hiding that and pulled it out. So for the most part, I feel like he's trying to do exactly what he ran on and what he got voted for.

[Unknown Interviewer]

What do you think about the way he's doing tariff? I mean, up, down, constantly up and down.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. So that messes with the stock market for sure, as he said. I think someone asked him the other day, he'd say it's a negotiation. And I think it's too early to tell where it lands and how it goes. And I think I said that one of my rants, it was cut off because people clip everything. But it's like, we'll see how it plays out. The stock market goes up and down. You can't kill the stock market, you can't kill the economy with this tariff scheme. But I think Trump would say I'm the greatest negotiator the world has ever seen.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you suspect or assume, as I think a lot of people do, that somebody on the inside may be making money as he keeps saying things that make the market go up, go down?

[Dave Portnoy]

I always think people are making money on the inside. So, yeah, I'm sure people are making money.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Does that bother you?

[Dave Portnoy]

It does bother me. But back to aoc. I agree with her that politicians shouldn't be able to trade stocks, period. That, that's crazy to me, but I don't think it's unique in a weird way, like the Trump meme coin like that. So blatant in your face. I'd almost rather have that than like Hunter Biden doing some back deal that I don't know about. So none of it, to me is good, but.

[Unknown Interviewer]

So it's more straightforward to just have a dinner and everybody who's paying me should come to dinner.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Which is what Trump did with the coin.

[Dave Portnoy]

With the coin, yeah. So again, I don't like it. And they are, I'm sure, making money, but this isn't. I wouldn't sit here and say, well, damn, like, Donald Trump's the first president ever to be making money. Like, I think they all do. I don't trust any of them.

[Unknown Interviewer]

There's probably a lot of your readers that invested in that Meme coin and have lost as it's gone up and down.

[Dave Portnoy]

Well, yeah, Meme Coins is a crazy world. I actually made money on that one. But Meme Coins, to me, and it's a whole different discussion that is you can't cry if you lose money in a Meme Coin. That's if you went to Las Vegas and put a dollar in a slot machine, pulled the slot and lost and cried, hey, I didn't know I was going to lose. Like, now, you may say the public should be protected against that, but Meme coins are a dangerous.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You said you made money on the Trump.

[Dave Portnoy]

On the Trump one. I did. I made bucks.

[Unknown Interviewer]

How'd you do that? Other than buy low, sell high? Was there something to it?

[Dave Portnoy]

That's just totally it. Like, I think I bought at 24. I went to bed, it was at 75. I said, get me out of this. And then I put a million. I made a million, and I put on the Buffalo Bills to win the Super Bowl. So I'm back down, even.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Well, but you had a lot of fun.

[Dave Portnoy]

It was a good ride.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Let me ask about another thing in that barstool. Conservatism definition, anti authoritarianism. Does anything the President has done to expand his power or to reach for more power concern you?

[Dave Portnoy]

No, not yet. I agree with a decent amount of what he's trying to do. I'd have to get a specific example. There could be specific examples where you're like, I'm like, no, I don't agree with this one. But the things I should add, sending.

[Unknown Interviewer]

People overseas without court proceedings.

[Dave Portnoy]

This, give an example, is a complicated issue because for the guy, and I forget his name, the one that the Maryland, the one with the tattoos.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But the Maryland man, the Brago Garcia.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, I think he's a bad guy. I don't think he should be. The one that Democrats are Putting a flag in the stand and being like, what are we doing here?

[Unknown Interviewer]

Even though they're like, well, his tattoo meant something else.

[Dave Portnoy]

I think the tattoo, they didn't have the actual. But I think for that to be like your flagship guy, where I have the issue, you gotta be right 100% of the time. Like, he. I don't have a problem with. But God forbid you. And I don't necessarily think you should go back in time. Like, I don't think if somebody isn't here legally, but they're a productive member of society with no issues, I don't think then you go say, get out of here. But if you've been committed of a crime or have something and you're here illegally, I don't have a problem with them getting kicked out of the country. I think that's okay. To answer your question, I don't have a solve because how do you do due process with all of them? Because you'll never get through it because of the time and energy it takes to do that, go through the courts. So I'm stuck. I don't have an answer for you. You have to be right 100% of the time because the due process. How do you know? So I don't have the answer for you.

[Unknown Interviewer]

No, you're right. You're right. I mean, the court system is slow. It takes years. But you can also churn people and hundreds of thousands of people can get deported every year. It can be done in the system.

[Dave Portnoy]

I don't think if you have a criminal record or you've done something illegally. I think this guy had a restraining order, his wife and like, and you're not here legally, then you shouldn't be in this country. That I have no problem with. How to accomplish that higher goal is a little more complicated.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Bill Maher, who I think maybe is sympathetic with you in some of his positions, has been very critical of Trump, but went to dinner with Trump and says he told Trump, you're scaring people. Do you think Trump is scaring people and does it bother you if he is?

[Dave Portnoy]

He's definitely scaring people. He's definitely scaring people, but he was scaring people. He's been scaring people. How long has he been on the political scene now?

[Unknown Interviewer]

12 years in this iteration? Yeah. He was even doing things before.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. So I think he's been scaring people throughout. I don't know. He scares my dad. I've said this many times. My dad is an anti Trumper, hates him. Trump derangement syndrome. I Think the fear is overbuilt. I also think a lot of it, there's no way for. For the toothpaste to go back in the tube. Like, he scares people. There's no. But Bill Maher is saying, you're scaring people. I don't know what he would do differently at this point in the game to put people at ease. And I don't know that that's his responsibility necessarily to put. I mean, yeah, you wanna unite the country. And that was my number one thing when I said, if you said, Dave, what is your critique of Trump? I'd say he's intentionally divisive. Like, that is something you want to bring the country together. But, man, the people who don't like him hate his guts. Like, they just. I feel like he could cancer and they'd be like, why didn't you get AIDS while you're at it? You know, I just don't think there's anything he could do that they would give him credit for, accept him for at this point. That that's his story on that is sort of written. And he obviously digs in and entrenches around it. Part of me, I can see in that, because if, like, you come at me, I think unfairly, I like you're gonna get. I'm not gonna try to play nice with you. And he doesn't. Now, I'm not the president. President, so that's an obvious difference.

[Unknown Interviewer]

When you call your dad, do you talk politics or avoid talking politics?

[Dave Portnoy]

We got to avoid it. We maybe will last a minute. And there's just no way he and I will ever see eye to eye on certain things. Ever. He considers himself the number one Trump expert in the world. He's like, davey, I know Trump more than you. I've been following him my whole life and I know things you don't know. And he's a bad guy.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It just the people who he bothers follow him all the time.

[Dave Portnoy]

Time, yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Paying attention.

[Dave Portnoy]

All the Howard Stern quote, like, the people love me, listen for five. The people hate me, listen for 10. But yeah, my dad qualifies for that. So my mom will put a stop to it. But I'm not one of those guys who sits here like my dad. I think really when he got elected, he's like, the world could not be here in four years. Like, he could do something with this much power where we're just not here. I don't feel that way. I. I think Trump is a rationale, sane guy. I actually think he's brilliant. But a lot of people hate things he stands for. They think he stands for.

[Steve Inskeep]

Now, if you've been listening closely to Dave Portnoy, you've heard that he's for Trump, but not all the time or on every issue. And that raises a question on the minds of many Democrats. Could they win back a few more men? Some people have a break here and then we'll ask Portnoy what he thinks Democrats could do.

[Terry Gross]

Hi, it's Terry Gross, host of FRESH AIR. Hey, take a break from the 24 hour news cycle with us and listen to long form interviews with your favorite authors, actors, filmmakers, comedians and musicians, the people making the art that nourishes us and speaks to our times. So listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and whyy.

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[Unknown Interviewer]

Democrats, as you probably know, are asking, why are we doing so badly with men? We have this gender gap used to work for us with so many women. Now it works against us. They're having focus groups, they're commissioning studies. What would you tell Democrats to do differently, if anything?

[Dave Portnoy]

There's a lot of things. Probably it goes back to what you said. And I don't know if I have this specific example, but I really, truly feel like men have been demonized is not the right word. I'll use an example of a story, and this was from a Deadspin writer who hated our guts. And Drew Brees, quarterback for the Saints, broke, I believe it was the touchdown record or the passing record, some big NFL stuff. They stopped the game and his family's on the field. And he says, c boys to your two kids. If you set your mind to it, you can do anything. There's a big think piece that he alienated his daughter by not including her in that discussion. Boys, boys. He said, boys. His daughter was there and was like, boys, you can set anything to me that you've lost the plot of reality. Like, not everything is nearly as serious as it may seem. And to me, again, like, guys can say a girl is pretty without being sexist. That doesn't make you a sexist pig. Simple things like that. It feels like you have to say in hush circumstances again, everything is blown out of proportion. And my story probably makes me. Some of the stuff I've had to deal with. I'm probably more sensitive to it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

But you're talking about accusations that you say harassment.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, harassment. Never. And like, we. A story that people still like. The New York Times, literally, they asked me for a quote about something the other day. I said, I'd rather to put a pencil in my eye than speak to you guys. I don't trust you, like, at all. And they actually printed the quote, which I didn't expect. That Dave's like, we asked him for a quote. He said he'd rather put a pencil. And then the sentence below was that Dave has admitted to being a racist in the past. That's what they said. What they're referring to is when Black Lives Matter happened, people who did not like me or barstool went through every post that everything I'd done at this point for 15 years. We had a Super bowl party that we had Ja Rule and Ashanti performing at. And I do these things. Emergency press conferences. It's like emergency press conference. You'll never believe who we have at super bowl party. I'm gonna sing five songs for you. The lyrics, the first 30 seconds, you guess who it is. One of the songs is 5 years prior to BLM had the n word in it. I sang the lyric in front of the camera on YouTube, put it on. Didn't think twice really of it. I wouldn't do it again. Posted. Nobody said word in real time. It went five years later. This is what people say, Dave's a racist to me. I wouldn't have done it. But if you can't look at intent on what's being used and use some rationale that's bad. That shouldn't. Am I racist? For the New York Times to literally be like, dave's a racist because of that incident. 20 years of doing stuff to me is wildly disingenuous.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think you're saying I shouldn't have said the word. But it wasn't that big a deal or it doesn't sound.

[Dave Portnoy]

I would never do it again. But at different times. And even if you want to say Dave is a racist, I'm not stupid. Like, I posted this on YouTube. Like, I didn't realize the impact that it would have on some people. I wouldn't do it again. But there is context to things. There's more texture to things. And a lot of times I feel like in this Internet age that's blown out. I mean, that clip still gets used against me if someone doesn't like me. I hear that every time.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Does your story also suggest, though, I mean, your success suggests that things are really not that bad for guys. I mean, you did. You've done really well in life.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. I don't know that it's bad, but do you still want to be, like, demonized for it? No. And I wouldn't say it's bad. Like, I don't know that my story, though, is an indication of anybody else's story.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Yeah. There was an episode that we don't have to totally recount, but somebody at a barstool bar holds up a sign that says F the Jews. You had a very strong reaction, which understandable. But over the top, almost. What really set you off about that?

[Dave Portnoy]

There was probably buildings, like. So I've been doing barstool for, like I said, 20 years, since the conflict in the Middle East. The amount of anti Semitism I deal with daily is astounding and growing. So it already caught my attention, the fact that it was so blatant and it got to the point that it actually made it onto the sign in our bar and somebody felt that it was okay to do that, that someone put it on the sign that, you know, nobody had a visceral reaction like, what the hell are you doing? All really, really, really bothered me. So I almost film my unfiltered candid reactions all the time. I can be watching a sports event. This pissed me off to no degree. So I picked up the phone and made a video how I felt.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And it turned into a days long, days long episode on the Internet.

[Dave Portnoy]

More than that. Yeah.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you think it did any good?

[Dave Portnoy]

I don't know if it did any good. I think it raises attention to it a little bit. I've had plenty of Jewish people come up to me and just thank me. They're like, thank you for saying something. Not enough people are saying something whether it's true or not. So I'm glad I spoke up.

[Unknown Interviewer]

It is interesting that you spoke up because you have been a free speech guy.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yep.

[Unknown Interviewer]

In favor of saying what you think still am. Not necessarily a contradiction in saying you disagree with somebody else's offensive speech. But is there A line you would.

[Dave Portnoy]

Draw somewhere between, I'm a big free speech. If you're gonna put somebody in danger, like, I can't. You can't yell like the classic, like, bomb in an airport. You can't do that. That's not free speech to me. This. You can yell the Jews or do that. Where I think a lot of. I would describe them as morons, confuse free speech with consequences for free speech. Like, you can say whatever you want, but there's consequences to what you say, and that could be me airing you out, hoping you don't get a job in the future and things like that. So people seem to confuse those two elements to me, like, I am fully full speech outside of, hey, I'm going to murder you. That's. That's not free speech. That's a threat. That's different. But saying, I don't like Jews, I don't like you either. But you can say it.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You started to run for mayor of Boston once upon a time.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, I got screwed.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You got screwed?

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah.

[Steve Inskeep]

What happened?

[Dave Portnoy]

So you needed 12,000 signatures to get on the ballot? I had a pretty well thought out plan because of all the colleges in Boston, I thought I could register them, get to vote. The signatures they can throw out for one or two reasons. You can't read it, or they're not registered in Boston. We didn't do this ourselves. We paid a reputable firm to gather the signatures. They got 20,000 of them, and somehow only 11,000 of them were legible. So I think there was a concerted effort to keep me off the ballot there.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Have you thought about running again for.

[Dave Portnoy]

Something every once in a while? It's fleeting. I think you can accomplish a lot more in the private sector than probably you can in the public. I think we've done a good job barstool with helping in the private sector, raising money at different times. I don't know. I don't trust those politicians. I feel like I go to a whatever and really get frustrated with everything.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I'm sitting here thinking, like, you're pro choice, so you would have trouble running as a Republican in most places.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, I'd have to be.

[Unknown Interviewer]

And you're not a Democrat, that's for sure.

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah. I mean, growing up, I would have said, I think Libertarian is probably more where I'd fall. The problem is the political party. I think people are craving what I would say is fiscal conservatism and social liberties. I think that is the majority of the country, actually. I think that party, if that party was an Established party. I think that candidate would be very strong.

[Unknown Interviewer]

I think about people in my family or that I grew up with whose views are a lot like yours, and they're basically Republicans and basically vote Republicans. But they think about it and when you talk with them, you find out, well, this guy voted for Obama once and this guy voted for Clinton. Have you voted for Democrats and would you vote for a Democrat?

[Dave Portnoy]

Yeah, 100%, I would vote for a Democrat and I have voted for Democrat. I campaigned for Paul Brown back in the day and I've said this, mate, what? But the Democrats lost themselves the election with this whole Biden cover up of him. I don't know, I call it dementia or whatever it is, Cognitive disabilities, fading, whatever you want to call it. I was talking about that for two years. It was, I think, to an intelligent mind, quite obvious. And if you said it, and not like somebody like me, but like that old. The interview with, like, Lara Trump with Jake Tapper, where he's, like, screaming at her for even insinuating it. That type of attitude and the way they handled the election is why they lost. And what drives me to make rants on social media and Instagram is I feel as though the left will look at you with a straight face and say they are the moral clarity, moral compass, moral superiority. And it's like, well, you've been lying for, like, two years to our faces about this. You may not like Trump. And people always say lies. I think most of his lies tend to be crazy euphemisms. Like, if you win a game by 20, you say won by 100. I think they've been far more honest with the American people.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Do you believe he's won all those club championships that he says he's won?

[Dave Portnoy]

Well, I don't know. Do you think Putin or Kim Jong's shot at, like, an 18 on a full regulation golf course? So, I mean, he's. Listen, he's a great golfer for his age. He is that, that.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Have you played with him?

[Dave Portnoy]

No, I've seen the clips. Okay. The clips he would have. That was the funniest. And I do find comedy in, like, politics. That's like the whole golf debate between him and Biden, I thought was like, some of the best comedy material that we've had in a long time. Them going back, that was the high.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Point of that otherwise low debate.

[Dave Portnoy]

And it was the only thing that Biden really got under his skin about what he said, like his handicap. So take the small victories there.

[Unknown Interviewer]

You probably know that in surveys, most people do not like the direction of the country. It was true last year, it's true this year. Sometimes it goes up a little, sometimes it goes back down. How do you feel about the direction of the country and where we're going?

[Dave Portnoy]

My biggest like, I think Trump is doing what Trump's wanting to do. I want a united United States. And when I say that, like, people don't hate each other. And I do feel like we've lived in a world that there's a lot of hate in this country based on groups, sectors, I, I, maybe I'm wrong. I've said it probably 10 times during this interview. I do think we're far more alike than we are not alike. But it seems like the differences are what has carried the day for a long time. And if you turn on the TV or the news, it maybe that's always maybe that's the Internet age. Sometimes I can't tell, like something that you may not even know about gets blown up on social media. But I wish we got along more. That would be kind of what would be my biggest concern as somebody that there's just so much hate.

[Unknown Interviewer]

Dave Portnoy, it's a pleasure talking with you.

[Steve Inskeep]

Thank you.

[Dave Portnoy]

Thanks for having me.

[Steve Inskeep]

This has been a special edition of up first from NPR News. We visited Dave Portnoy in the 305 podcast studios in Miami, where they moved aside a few of the plans to make space for us. Our producer is Adam Barron, our editor is Reena Advani, and our executive producer is Jay Shaler. I'm Steve Inskeep.

[Unknown Sponsor]

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