Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID

Summary

Up First from NPR – Detailed Summary of "Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID"

Release Date: March 8, 2025

NPR's "Up First" delivers the most important news stories of the day with in-depth reporting and analysis. In this episode titled "Limiting Musk's Powers; VA Employees On DOGE Emails; No Cure For Long COVID," hosts Scott Simon and Ayesha Rascoe delve into three significant topics shaping the national conversation. This summary captures the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode, enriched with notable quotes and structured for clarity.

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1. Limiting Musk's Powers

Overview:

The episode opens with President Trump's assertion that Cabinet secretaries, not Elon Musk and his DOGE entity, will handle federal staffing decisions. This announcement has sparked debates about the actual influence Musk wields over government operations.

Key Discussions:

• Trump's Statement and its Implications (00:02 - 00:27):

  • Scott Simon reports, “President Trump now says his Cabinet secretaries will be the ones to make staffing decisions, not Elon Musk and his Doge entity” (00:02).
  • Ayesha Rascoe questions, “But is that how things are really going to work?” (00:10).
  • President Trump emphasizes his desire for stable staffing, stating, “I want the Cabinet members to keep good people. I don't want to see a big cut where a lot of good people are cutting” (00:20).

• Analysis with Ron Elving (02:11 - 06:03):

  • Ron Elving, NPR senior editor and correspondent, discusses the power dynamics between Trump and Musk. He explains, “Musk gets to come along batting cleanup and deciding whether the Cabinet secretaries and other Senate confirmed officials have done enough” (02:20).
  • Elving highlights reported clashes between Musk and Cabinet members like Secretary of State Marco Rubio and Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, especially regarding workforce cuts and Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) hires.
  • The potential political ramifications are considered, with Elving noting, “Musk still polls well among Trump supporters, but the Musk stock may have seen its peak” (03:14).

• Government Shutdown Risk (04:51 - 05:59):

  • Scott Simon discusses the looming government shutdown deadline with Elving. The two parties are “far apart and possibly getting farther even as we speak” (04:58).
  • Elving explains the impasse: “House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries points out that the bill Johnson is backing would actually be a setup for the new Trump Musk budget regime” (04:58).
  • The likelihood of a shutdown is deemed high, with Elving stating, “it seems likely that next week at this time will be in a shutdown, at least for a short period of time” (05:59).

Insights and Conclusions:

The interplay between President Trump and Elon Musk reveals underlying tensions in federal staffing and budget decisions. While Trump publicly aims to control staffing through Cabinet secretaries, Musk's influence remains significant, potentially undermining these efforts. The ongoing political standoff raises concerns about effective governance and the well-being of federal employees, with the imminent threat of a government shutdown exacerbating the situation.

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2. VA Employees on DOGE Emails

Overview:

Federal employees at the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) are experiencing increased stress due to mandatory "What did you do last week?" (WYDLY) emails mandated by Elon Musk. These emails have sparked outrage among VA staff, particularly mental health professionals.

Key Discussions:

• Introduction to the Issue (06:10 - 06:19):

  • Scott Simon introduces the topic: “Federal employees clocking in on Monday could see another email sent at the behest of Elon Musk asking them, 'what did you do last week?'” (06:10).

• Interview with Amy Edmondson (06:33 - 10:31):

  • Andrea Hsu brings in Amy Edmondson, a social psychologist, to discuss the impact of these emails.
  • Edmondson explains, “They are like flashbang grenades meant to discombobulate federal workers” (07:48), highlighting the disruptive nature of unsolicited oversight.
  • The VA employees express frustration as these emails interfere with their primary mission of assisting veterans, forcing them to spend time on administrative tasks instead of patient care.
  • Edmondson comments on the psychological strain, stating, “People are doing the best they can to keep it together for their patients” (08:35).
  • The lack of a clear purpose for these emails exacerbates anxiety: “What’s under it? And the people I talk to, Scott, say they're doing the best they can to keep it together for their patients” (08:35).

• Administration's Stance and Employee Reactions (09:20 - 09:52):

  • The White House has not responded to inquiries about the emails.
  • President Trump supports Musk’s efforts, maintaining, “There are some workers in the federal government who aren't doing a good job and shouldn't be there” (09:20).
  • VA employees are fearful of job security, with some contemplating leaving despite their dedication to serving veterans.

Insights and Conclusions:

The introduction of DOGE-mandated emails has significantly disrupted the work environment within the VA, particularly among mental health professionals who are already under immense pressure. The lack of clarity and directive oversight has led to increased anxiety, decreased job satisfaction, and concerns over job security. This situation underscores the broader implications of external influences on federal operations, potentially undermining the efficacy and morale of essential public service employees.

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3. No Cure For Long COVID

Overview:

Five years after the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a pandemic, Long COVID continues to affect millions of Americans. Despite advances in understanding the condition, effective treatments remain elusive.

Key Discussions:

• Current State of Long COVID (10:31 - 11:42):

  • Scott Simon introduces the segment by noting the lasting impact of COVID-19, particularly through “long Covid” (10:31).
  • Will Stone, NPR health correspondent, provides an update: “Researchers have coalesced around a handful of explanations” (10:54), including viral persistence, immune dysfunction, blood clots, and reactivation of other viruses as potential causes of symptoms like brain fog and fatigue.

• Challenges in Treatment Development (11:42 - 12:43):

  • The primary hurdle remains the lack of clinical trials: “There just aren't enough of them” (11:45).
  • Will Stone cites Dr. Michael Peluso, emphasizing the need for more trials to test existing drugs targeting various mechanisms: “We have drugs that can target almost every single one of the different mechanisms we think might be contributing to Long Covid” (12:06).
  • A reliable biomarker for Long COVID is still missing, complicating the assessment of treatment efficacy across studies.

• Patient Impact and Advocacy (12:45 - 14:56):

  • Approximately 18 million U.S. adults are affected by Long COVID, though estimates vary based on definitions and survey methods.
  • Hannah Davis, a Long COVID patient and advocate, shares her experience and efforts to lobby for increased research funding: “We’re gonna do the research to find a solution to this” (14:19).
  • Funding initiatives like the federal government's Recover initiative have allocated significant resources ($660 million) over four years to support research and clinical trials.
  • Despite funding, skepticism remains about the administration’s commitment to addressing Long COVID, especially with political disagreements over COVID policies.

Insights and Conclusions:

Long COVID remains a pressing public health issue with millions of Americans grappling with its debilitating effects. While scientific understanding has advanced, translating this knowledge into effective treatments is hindered by insufficient clinical trials and the absence of standardized biomarkers. Advocacy efforts are crucial in securing and sustaining federal funding for research. The ongoing challenges highlight the need for a concerted, bipartisan approach to address Long COVID, ensuring that patients receive the necessary support and care.

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Final Thoughts:

This episode of NPR's "Up First" sheds light on the complex interplay between political power, federal employee welfare, and enduring health crises. President Trump's attempts to limit Elon Musk's influence within the federal government reveal deeper tensions that could impact national governance and employee morale. Concurrently, the struggles of VA employees under Musk's oversight highlight the human cost of administrative decisions. Lastly, the persistent challenge of Long COVID underscores the critical need for sustained research and compassionate policy-making. As these stories unfold, they collectively paint a picture of a nation grappling with leadership dynamics, workforce stability, and public health resilience.

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For more detailed reporting and analysis, subscribe to NPR's "Up First" and support your local NPR station at donate.npr.org.

Transcript

[Scott Simon]

President Trump now says his Cabinet secretaries will be the ones to make staffing decisions, not Elon Musk and his Doge entity.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

But is that how things are really going to work?

[Scott Simon]

I'm Scott Simon.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

I'm Ayesha Rascoe. And this is up first from NPR News.

[Scott Simon]

I want the Cabinet members to keep good people. I don't want to see a big cut where a lot of good people are cutting.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

That's what the president said. But there have already been some big cuts. We'll look at who's actually calling the shots.

[Scott Simon]

We'll also hear how federal employees at one agency feel about those efforts.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Plus, five years after the start of the COVID 19 pandemic, we'll look at the efforts to treat long Covid.

[Scott Simon]

So please stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your weekend.

[Andrea Hsu]

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[Scott Simon]

His captain secretaries to work with Elon Musk on staffing decisions.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

It almost sounds like he might be stripping some of that power away from Musk and his Doge entity.

[Scott Simon]

But is he? NPR senior editor and correspondent Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us.

[Ron Elving]

Good to be with you, Scott.

[Scott Simon]

Well, what are we seeing? Are they putting a leash on that Doge?

[Ron Elving]

It's been sold that way like it's Trump siding with his cabinet over Musk. But if you listen to that clip we just heard, it still seems that Musk gets to come along batting cleanup and deciding whether the Cabinet secretaries and other Senate confirmed officials have done enough. So who decides what's enough? Is it Musk or is it Trump himself. And do we know whether that's really a difference? The New York Times reporters Maggie Haberman, Jonathan Swan have reported that there have been clashes between Musk and members of the Cabinet, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy, both of whom were reported to have been scolded by Musk for not cutting enough and for having too many DEI hires still working for their departments.

[Scott Simon]

Is the Department of Government Efficiency a potential political liability for congressional Republicans because after all, federal jobs are getting cut in their states?

[Ron Elving]

Yes, that's right. It's not a clear liability yet, at least not for Republicans in Congress, because as we saw on Tuesday night at the State of the Union, Musk is still a hero to Trump fans, both in Congress and beyond. Musk still polls well among Trump supporters, but the Musk stock may have seen its peak. Scott, we will see how the cuts to Veterans affairs staffing, for example, go down with the families of vets in the care of the va. And we'll also see how much Musk gets to do with Social Security. That's the most popular federal program in history by all measures. But Musk has compared Social Security to an illegal private investment swindle. He did that on Joe Rogan's podcast last month.

[Scott Simon]

Everybody's got a podcast now. California Governor Gavin Newsom started one this week. His first guest was not another progressive Democrat, but right wing activist Charlie Kirk. And they agreed on a few things.

[Ron Elving]

Yes, Newsom took a more centrist position on bans on trans athletes in school sports. Now Scott, I remember when would be presidents would go on Larry King's CNN talk show to say they were thinking about the White House. Now there may be a trend, as you suggest, towards starting your own pod. No one can be surprised that Newsom is thinking thinking about what he may do for a living next. He's term limited as governor after 2026. So why not start a pod and start having guests who might attract an audience outside your own political base? And certainly Charlie Kirk at age 31, with millions of followers hoping to be influential even after the Trump era, he certainly speaks to people far from Newsom space.

[Scott Simon]

This coming Friday, March 14, is the deadline to avoid a government shutdown. How far apart are the parties?

[Ron Elving]

Far apart and possibly getting farther even as we speak. Speaker Mike Johnson has said he wants a clean bill to extend current spending commitments through the end of the fiscal year in September. That sounds like the simple typical kick the can solution here. But House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries points out that the bill Johnson is backing would actually be a setup for the new Trump Musk budget regime with all that implies and sets in motion. And Johnson himself says the new spending bill would get the ball rolling on the next era of Trump Musk cuts. So there will not be any Democratic votes for that, meaning the Republican leaders in the House will have to get a majority and in the Senate a supermajority with the votes of their own members alone. And it's going to be tough bringing every last Republican on board for all this controversial stuff. That's not impossible, but the odds are not good. So right now it seems likely that next week at this time will be in a shutdown, at least for a short period of time.

[Scott Simon]

It'll be good to talk to you then, too. NPR's Ron Elving, thanks so much.

[Ron Elving]

Thank you, Scott.

[Scott Simon]

Federal employees clocking in on Monday could see another email sent at the behest of Elon Musk asking them, quote, what did you do last week?

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Musk has been tasked by President Trump to cut the federal workforce, and so he has over 62,000 employees across 17 agencies.

[Scott Simon]

NPR's Andrea Hsu joins us now. Andrea, thanks so much for being with us.

[Amy Edmondson]

Thanks for having me.

[Scott Simon]

Managers ask their employees to keep them up to date all the time, tell them what they've been doing. That seems pretty ordinary, but you've heard from workers at the VA are quite mad about these emails. Why are they so upset?

[Amy Edmondson]

Yeah. Well, for several reasons. First, because the original request did not come from their managers. It came from the Office of Personnel Management at the direction of Elon Musk. And, you know, he has said this was his idea idea. And these emails hit inboxes over the weekends while most people were off, you know, trying to relax. Now, the people I spoke with at the va, they are mental health professionals. They help veterans with things like depression and ptsd, combat trauma, sexual trauma. And they say the government already closely tracks what they do. Supervisors can run reports on how many patients they see, how many phone calls they make, what time those interactions start and stop, what topics are discussed and so on. So they don't know why an additional weekly email is necessary. And one psychologist I spoke with described the what did you do last week Emails in pretty stark terms. She said they're like flashbang grenades meant to discombobulate federal workers. And NPR agreed not to identify her or others at the VA by name because they're scared they'll lose their jobs for speaking out.

[Scott Simon]

Andrea, did the mental health workers with whom you spoke answer their emails, list their Accomplishments.

[Amy Edmondson]

Yeah, they did, because the VA told them they should respond. And in fact, they told me it's not hard writing down, you know, a few things about what they did, a few sentences about what they did. But they do see it as just one more thing getting in the way of their work, which is helping veterans deal with these really tough problems. And it's coming at a time when there's been so much upheaval in the federal government. You know, the VA this week announced deep cuts ahead, and a psychologist I talked to said patients are themselves worried. She has patients asking her, are you going to be here next week or next month? And she says she's spending a lot of time calming their nerves instead of focusing on their treatment.

[Scott Simon]

So the stress that mental health workers are feeling isn't all about the emails.

[Amy Edmondson]

Yeah. Well, I spoke with a Harvard Business School professor about this. Her name is Amy Edmondson, and she's a social psychologist. She says you have to think about the context when you consider the impact of these emails that originated with Elon Musk. Think about it. You're in your job, and suddenly you're getting an email from someone who's not your boss and not your peer, not your subordinate, not someone that you normally interact with to do your job. What's under it? And the people I talk to, Scott, say they're doing the best they can to keep it together for their patients. But one psychiatrist told me she's anxious and irritable, and she finds herself doing things like doom scrolling the Internet, which she knows is not good. In fact, it's something she tells her own patients not to do.

[Scott Simon]

What does the Trump administration say?

[Amy Edmondson]

Well, we asked the White House to comment on what we've heard from these VA employees, and we haven't heard back. We do know that President Trump supports Elon Musk Musk's effort to gather these weekly responses. The president has repeatedly said there are some workers in the federal government who aren't doing a good job and shouldn't be there. Now, we don't know what the administration is doing with these responses. Some have speculated they're using AI to analyze them, but to what end is not clear. The administration has told agencies to collect the information and decide how to deal with people who don't respond.

[Scott Simon]

Many of the people with whom you've spoken, mental health workers thought about leaving.

[Amy Edmondson]

Yeah, but they tell me they really don't want to. They love their work. They know they can make more money in private practice. But one psychologist told me she felt a call to duty, to serve those who have served the country. And she said, I'm not a quitter. I won't be bullied into quitting. She plans to stay as long as she can.

[Scott Simon]

ENVIARREZANDREA Hsu, thanks so much for being with us.

[Amy Edmondson]

Thanks. SC.

[Scott Simon]

Tuesday will mark five years since the World Health Organization declared COVID 19 a pandemic.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

And for millions of Americans, the infection has had lasting consequences, leaving them with a series of at times debilitating symptoms referred to as long Covid.

[Scott Simon]

NPR health correspondent Will Stone joins us now. Will, thanks for being with us.

[Will Stone]

Sure thing, Scott.

[Scott Simon]

Long Covid can be debilitating for many people. Are scientists any closer to understanding it?

[Will Stone]

They are. Researchers have coalesced around a handful of explanations. There seem to be multiple underlying drivers of the illness, depending on the patient. One big focus has been the idea of viral persistence, that people never fully clear the infection. But there are others related to immune dysfunction, blood clots, the reactivation of other viruses. These could ultimately trigger symptoms like brain fog, like fatigue, shortness of breath, something called post exertional malaise. The challenge here remains translating some of these insights into treatment. There are still no approved drugs for Long Covid. The approach is often to manage symptoms and try to improve quality of life.

[Scott Simon]

And what are the challenges in coming up with the treatment?

[Will Stone]

It comes down to clinical trials. There just aren't enough of them. A few years ago, there were a handful looking at drugs, Dr. Michael Peluso told me. By his count, there are now about 50, including some that Peluso is involved in at the University of California, San Francisco. But he says the reality is we just need a lot more. For such a complex condition, there are.

[Amy Edmondson]

Dozens of existing drugs that should be tested. We have drugs that can target almost every single one of the different mechanisms we think might be contributing to Long Covid. But so far, we've launched way too few trials to actually do that with intense effort.

[Will Stone]

And Scott, one of the major barriers here is that drug makers are still on the sidelines to some extent. Over and over again, Peluso hears the reason is there's not a reliable biological measurement of the condition, a biomarker that can be tracked across multiple trials in the same way that ldl or bad cholesterol, is a biomarker for heart disease risk.

[Scott Simon]

Do we know how many people are affected?

[Will Stone]

That's hard to pin down. Research, including CDC data, has found about 18 million adults in the US had long Covid. There are more conservative estimates. All of this depends on how you're defining the condition, who you survey. And people are still getting Long Covid. Here's what Hannah Davis told me. She has long Covid herself and co founded an advocacy group called the Patient Led Research Collaborative.

[Andrea Hsu]

It has been downplayed.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

We have seen so much long Covid in the last year. Two years Long Covid rates, you know, have remained high in people who are vaccinated.

[Will Stone]

It's remained high over different variants. And I hear the same message from doctors who are seeing new patients alongside those who got sick two, three, four years ago and have not recovered.

[Scott Simon]

What are you hearing from patients? Will more resources, more funding?

[Will Stone]

Yeah, continually. The federal government has funded long Covid research through its Recover initiative. Last year, an additional $660 million was appropriated. That's to be spent over the next four years, including on clinical trials. Now, obviously, there's huge uncertainty about federal funding for scientific research in general under the Trump administration. I spoke to Megan Stone about this. No relation to me. She's a patient and directs the Long Covid campaign. Stone has been in D.C. lobbying senators and the administration to, among other things, protect those funds from any cuts. Actually, this past week, she was at the confirmation hearing for Trump's pick to lead the national institutes of health, Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. And she managed to get a moment with him.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Afterwards, he said to me, we're gonna do the research to find a solution to this.

[Andrea Hsu]

I hope so.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

If the administration doesn't meet the patient community in that, then we will keep calling for action the same way that we did under President Biden, regardless of party or political position. Long COVID patients have been failed by our leaders.

[Will Stone]

To be clear, there's certainly skepticism about whether the administration will take this work seriously. And there are real disagreements between the patient community and those now leading federal health agencies around COVID policies more generally. But Stone says long COVID patients just don't have the luxury to sit this out over the next four years.

[Scott Simon]

NPR health correspondent Will Stone. Thanks so much for being with us.

[Will Stone]

Thank you.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

And that's up first for Saturday, March 8th, 2025. I'm Aisha Rascoe.

[Scott Simon]

And I'm Scott Simon.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Martin Patience produced today's episode with help from Michael Radcliffe and Ryan Bank.

[Scott Simon]

Our editors are Dee Purvez, Ed McNulty, Melissa Gray, and Scott Hensley.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Andrew Craig is our director. And today's his birthday. Happy birthday. With support from technical Director Andy Huether.

[Scott Simon]

And the engineers who helped get this on the air, David Greenberg, Zach Coleman, and Arthur Halliday Laurent.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Evie Stone is our senior supervising editor. And Sarah Lucy Oliver is our executive producer. Jim Cain is our deputy managing editor.

[Scott Simon]

And tomorrow on the Sunday Story with Ayesha, a close look at the origins of birthright citizenship, a constitutional right President Trump wants to end for children born in the US to parents who entered the country illegally.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

And for more news, interviews, sports and music, you can tune in to Weekend Edition on your radio. Go to stations.NPR.org to find your local NPR station.

[Scott Simon]

Don't just sit there. Tune in now.

[Andrea Hsu]

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