Military in LA, Immigration Raids and Business, Trump's Hush Money Appeal

Summary

Up First from NPR – June 11, 2025

In this episode of Up First, NPR delves into three pressing issues shaping the nation: the military's presence in Los Angeles amid anti-ICE protests, the economic ramifications of President Trump's intensified immigration raids, and the latest developments in President Trump's legal battles concerning hush money payments. Below is a comprehensive summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the episode.

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1. Military Deployment in Los Angeles Amid Anti-ICE Protests

Overview: The episode opens with the deployment of military forces, including the National Guard and Marines, to Los Angeles in response to escalating anti-ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) protests. This move has sparked debates about the military's role in domestic affairs and its implications for civil liberties.

Key Discussions:

• Purpose and Limitations of Military Presence:

  • Michelle Martin introduces the topic by stating, "The military is in Los Angeles in response to anti ICE protests" (00:02).
  • Martin Costi, an NPR expert, explains, "The administration says they're there to protect federal facilities and employees" (02:53). He emphasizes that while the National Guard has been seen forming human barriers in front of federal buildings, their primary role is protective rather than enforcement.

• Legal Boundaries and Historical Context:

  • Martin Costi references the Posse Comitatus Act, a 19th-century law that prohibits the military from acting as domestic law enforcement, stating, "The experts say no, because of a 19th century law known as Posse Comitatus, which bars the military from acting as police inside the country" (03:22).
  • A comparison is drawn to the 1992 Los Angeles riots, where then-President George H.W. Bush invoked the Insurrection Act to deploy active military personnel. Martin Costi notes, "Legally, the difference is that in 92, President George H.W. bush invoked the Insurrection act" (04:04). The current deployment differs as state and local authorities oppose the military's involvement, leading to tensions and uncertainties.

• Potential Risks and Public Perception:

  • An anecdote is shared about the 1992 riots where Marines mistakenly opened fire on a property during a police operation, highlighting the stark differences in operational approaches between the military and police forces.
  • Martin Costi underscores the potential for miscommunication and unintended consequences, suggesting that the current military deployment could lead to similar issues if not properly coordinated with local authorities.

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Horsley: "They can't enforce the law, but they can protect themselves" (00:06).
• Martin Costi: "It's really unusual. Normally you'd have the military plugged into the local emergency management system" (04:58).

Conclusions: The deployment of military forces in Los Angeles is a contentious move that raises questions about federal overreach and the appropriate use of military personnel in domestic situations. The lack of clear coordination with local authorities and the potential for conflicts due to differing operational protocols pose challenges to maintaining public trust and ensuring effective response to protests.

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2. Impact of Trump's Immigration Raids on Workers and Businesses

Overview: President Trump's administration has intensified immigration enforcement efforts, leading to widespread raids that target businesses relying on workers without legal authorization. This crackdown has significant implications for both the labor market and the broader economy.

Key Discussions:

• Scope of Immigration Enforcement:

  • Michelle Martin highlights, "President Trump's immigration crackdown is driving some people out of the country" (06:27).
  • Scott Horsley elaborates on the expansion of enforcement beyond the southern border, stating, "The dragnet is getting wider" and "high profile raids on farms and construction sites and restaurants have certainly captured attention" (06:51; 07:25).

• Economic Consequences:

  • Scott Horsley reports that "more than a million Foreign born workers dropped out of the labor force over the last two months" (07:48), indicating a substantial decline in labor participation due to fear of deportation.
  • Robert Dietz, Chief Economist at the National Association of Home Builders, expresses concerns about the long-term effects on industries critical to addressing the housing shortage: "It's not likely to ease what is already a severe housing shortage in the country" (08:29).

• Dependence on Immigrant Labor:

  • Scott Horsley references a Goldman Sachs estimate that over 4% of all U.S. workers are living illegally in the country, underscoring the essential role these workers play in sustaining various sectors: "The native born population of the US is getting older. 10,000 baby boomers are retiring every single day" (09:31).
  • The administration's strategy to offset the loss of immigrant workers by "pulling more native born people, especially men, off the sidelines and getting them into the workforce" is critiqued as "nothing in recent history suggests that's likely" (09:33).

Notable Quotes:

• Scott Horsley: "We're going to flood the zone with more enforcement than you've ever seen in the history of this nation" (07:25).
• Muzaffar Shishti: "Our economy, especially certain sectors of economy, are heavily driven by immigrant labor. We may want to not tolerate unauthorized immigration, but we still need real labor" (09:16).

Conclusions: The intensified immigration raids under President Trump's administration are creating a chilling effect among foreign-born workers, leading to labor shortages in key industries. While the administration aims to replace unauthorized workers with native-born labor, the feasibility of this approach is questionable given the current demographic trends and labor force participation rates. The economic fallout, particularly in sectors reliant on immigrant labor, could exacerbate existing challenges such as the housing shortage, highlighting the complex interplay between immigration policy and economic stability.

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3. Trump's Hush Money Conviction: Appeal Hearing Overview

Overview: The episode discusses the ongoing legal saga of former President Donald Trump, focusing on his recent conviction related to hush money payments made during the 2016 election cycle. The appeal hearing in Manhattan's federal court of appeals is a focal point, with implications for Trump's legal standing and potential precedent-setting outcomes.

Key Discussions:

• Background of the Conviction:

  • Kat Lonsdorf outlines the case: "Trump was convicted in May of last year, before the election, on 34 counts of falsifying business records" connected to payments made to Stormy Daniels to conceal an alleged sexual encounter (10:42).
  • The conviction marked Trump as "the first president to also be a convicted felon," though the judge ruled that due to his status as president, he would not face prison time or additional penalties, leaving the conviction on his record (10:42; 10:35).

• Arguments in the Appeal:

  • Trump's legal team is attempting to move the case to federal court, citing a law that allows federal officials to intervene if the conduct occurred while in office. However, legal experts deem this argument a "long shot" (11:25; 12:06).
  • The prosecution's reliance on evidence from Trump's first term is being challenged, though experts remain skeptical of the appeal's success (11:25; 12:21).

• Potential Implications:

  • Kat Lonsdorf notes that the three-judge panel hearing the appeal will confer without an immediate decision. The outcome could influence how similar cases are handled in the future, potentially affecting the interplay between state and federal judicial systems (12:49; 12:34).

Notable Quotes:

• Kat Lonsdorf: "This argument is such a stretch. In this particular case, it's a clearly losing argument that any federal Judge on the 2nd Circuit, Republican or Democratic appointee, would and should reject" (12:21).
• Jed Sugarman: "It's an example of Trump's lawyers exhausting every possible argument in the hopes of getting this conviction overturned" (12:06).

Conclusions: Former President Trump's appeal of his criminal conviction regarding hush money payments represents a critical juncture in his legal battles. While his legal team's strategy to shift the case to federal court appears tenuous and is widely regarded as unlikely to succeed, the proceedings will be closely watched for their broader implications on the legal boundaries of presidential conduct and the integrity of the judicial process. The outcome could set a significant precedent for how similar cases are approached in the future, particularly concerning the separation of state and federal jurisdiction in prosecuting actions taken while in office.

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Final Thoughts: This episode of Up First provides in-depth coverage of three significant national issues, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the complexities involved in military deployments for domestic protests, the economic impact of stringent immigration enforcement, and the evolving legal challenges faced by a former president. Through expert interviews and detailed analysis, NPR ensures that audiences are well-informed about the critical developments shaping the nation's socio-political landscape.

Transcript

[Michelle Martin]

The military is in Los Angeles in response to anti ICE protests.

[Scott Horsley]

If the crowds were trying to push through them or throwing rocks at their face, they could protect themselves, but they can't enforce the law.

[Emmy Martinez]

So what's the military allowed to do?

[Michelle Martin]

I'm Michelle Martin. That's a Martinez. And this is up first from NPR News. As immigration enforcement efforts expand, raids are driving some workers into hiding.

[Martin Costi]

It has had a chilling effect in terms of people showing up for work.

[Michelle Martin]

How are businesses that rely on workers without legal authorization thinking about the crackdown?

[Emmy Martinez]

And a Manhattan federal court of appeals will hear an argument to overturn President Trump's criminal conviction. This argument is such a stretch. In this particular case, what argument will Trump's lawyers make? Stay with us. We've got all the news you need to start your day.

[N/A]

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[Emmy Martinez]

Under curfew last night for the first time since anti ice protests began on Friday.

[Michelle Martin]

City officials said the protests have been largely peaceful, but instances of vandalism and looting led them to implement the curfew. Meanwhile, the Trump administration has moved ahead with the deployment of Marines and more National Guard over the objections of state and city leaders.

[Emmy Martinez]

Joining us now to talk about the military's role in Los Angeles is NPR's Martin Costi. So, Martin, the National Guard arrived over the weekend. Marines are now in the city, though we don't yet know where they'll be. Is it clear what their mission is?

[Martin Costi]

Well, the administration says they're there to protect federal facilities and employees. And we've seen some of that, you know, the row of National Guard with shields standing there as a human barrier in front of federal buildings. Also been reports, though, of the Guard protecting ICE agents out in the field as they do their jobs. And that could put some of those soldiers into more dynamic situations that might start to look a little bit like they're part of enforcement.

[Emmy Martinez]

Okay, would they be allowed to do that to assist ICE directly with its enforcement work?

[Martin Costi]

The experts say no, because of a 19th century law known as Posse Comitatus, which bars the military from acting as police inside the country. I asked William Banks about this. He's a professor at Syracuse University, and he's been studying this very question about what's legal for the military inside the country for years.

[Scott Horsley]

For sure, they can't arrest if the crowds are trying to push through them or throwing rocks at their face or something like that. They could protect themselves. That's federal protection. But they can't enforce the law.

[Emmy Martinez]

Okay, so he says the military isn't supposed to do law enforcement, but they have been deployed inside the country over the years. I mean, I remember back in 1992, right here in Los Angeles, where I'm at during the Rodney King riots. I mean, how is this military deployment different?

[Martin Costi]

Well, legally, the difference is that in 92, President George H.W. bush invoked the Insurrection act, which allows for the use of the active military to quell civil disturbances. But maybe just as important here is the difference that this time around, the state and local authorities don't want the military's help, and they don't know what to expect from the military now that they're here. And you can hear that frustration in the voice of LA Mayor Karen Bass. This is her last night when someone asked her, why, what are the Marines doing?

[Scott Horsley]

Who knows?

[Michelle Martin]

I mean, the bottom line is, is that we're not told. Basically, we have to operate on rumors. So rumor has it that there's 700 Marines that are going to come here. I have no idea what they would do when they would get here.

[Martin Costi]

And, you know, this is really unusual. Normally you'd have the military plugged into the local emergency management system, coordinating with the police. Instead, what we have here is the state suing the feds to pull the military out. And that's not really a great climate for smooth coordination.

[Emmy Martinez]

So what happens then if, say, the National Guard and or the Marines get into a situation that requires Force. I mean, how prepared is the military to use force against American civilians?

[Martin Costi]

The National Guard get crowd control training and they have some of the gear such as those shields. As to the Marines, well, I talked to Mick Wagoner. He's a retired Marine Corps lieutenant colonel who focused on military law. And he said there are some Marines who get specialized training for missions such as evacuating US Embassies that are threatened by crowds. But he said that's just not the same as police work. And he recalled, recalled an infamous case during the 92 riots in LA when the police asked some Marines to cover them as they approached a house.

[Emmy Martinez]

And the Marines then lay down suppressing fire. The police were completely aghast. What are you doing? And you said, you said to cover you. It's like, yeah, tell us if somebody sticks their head out or if you see a gun or something.

[Martin Costi]

But Jesus, you just lit up that house. Wagner says that case shows just how differently the police and military approach things and even understand basic words like cover me. And he says he really hopes that these Marines in LA now will be kept in the rear behind the National Guard because at least some of them may be police officers in their day jobs and may have more training for crowds.

[Emmy Martinez]

All right, that's NPR's Martin Costi. Thanks a lot, Martin.

[Martin Costi]

You're welcome.

[Michelle Martin]

President Trump's immigration crackdown is driving some people out of the country.

[Emmy Martinez]

It's also driving others underground. And that poses a challenge for businesses that have traditionally relied on workers who are in the country without legal authorization.

[Michelle Martin]

NPR's Scott Horsley is with us now with the economic impact of the president's immigration actions. Good morning, Scott.

[Scott Horsley]

Good morning, Michelle.

[Michelle Martin]

So who's being targeted in these latest efforts?

[Scott Horsley]

The dragnet is getting wider. During the campaign, the president promised mass deportation. But during his first few months in the White House, Trump and his team struggled to reach that kind of mass. There are very few people coming across the southern border now, so the administration has stepped up its arrest in the middle of the country. And speaking to reporters outside the White House recently, border czar Tom Holman promised an increased focus on workplace raids.

[Martin Costi]

So you're going to see more teams on the streets than you've never seen before. You're going to see more work site.

[Scott Horsley]

Enforcement than you've ever seen in the.

[Martin Costi]

History of this nation. We're going to flood the zone.

[Scott Horsley]

High profile raids on farms and construction sites and restaurants have certainly captured attention and driven some workers into hiding. According to the Labor Department's tally, more than a million Foreign born workers dropped out of the labor force over the last two months. Now, we don't know how many of those were in the country illegally, but it's likely some people have quit going to work because they're fearful of being arrested and possibly deported.

[Michelle Martin]

And how is that affecting the economy?

[Scott Horsley]

If you look at the broad national numbers, it's not having a huge impact yet. Both construction companies and restaurants, for example, continued to add jobs last month. Those are two industries that typically employ a lot of workers who are in the country illegally. But there are plenty of anecdotal reports of economic fallout from these enforcement actions. Robert Dietz is chief economist at the national association of Home Builders. He says every time there's a raid on a big box store or a restaurant, word gets around at nearby construction sites.

[Martin Costi]

It has had a chilling effect in terms of people showing up for work, but it tends to be kind of localized. You know, the impact is for a week or two and then people have got to show up and work and earn money for their families.

[Scott Horsley]

Still, Dietz is concerned about what stepped up enforcement might mean for the home building industry. Where a third of the workforce is foreign born. It's not likely to ease what is already a severe housing shortage in the country.

[Michelle Martin]

So how critical are workers without legal status to the overall job market?

[Scott Horsley]

A couple of years ago, economist at Goldman Sachs estimated that something over 4% of all workers in the US are living here illegally. In addition to targeting those workers, the President has also been closing off various legal avenues of immigration. And he's been stripping hundreds of thousands of immigrants who did have some kind of temporary permission to be in the country of their right to work. Muzaffar Shishti, who's a senior fellow at the Migration Policy Institute, says the combined effects of all those immigration policies could be far reaching.

[Emmy Martinez]

Our economy, especially certain sectors of economy, are heavily driven by immigrant labor. We may want to not tolerate unauthorized.

[Martin Costi]

Immigration, but we still need real labor.

[Emmy Martinez]

Market needs to be met.

[Scott Horsley]

Keep in mind, the native born population of the US is getting older. 10,000 baby boomers are retiring every single day. And in recent years, it has really been the growth of the foreign born workforce that has allowed the US Economy to keep growing. Now the President and his team have a different strategy. It's one that depends on pulling more native born people, especially men, off the sidelines and getting them into the workforce workforce. Nothing in recent history suggests that's likely, but that is what would be needed to replace the immigrant workers we're now losing.

[Michelle Martin]

That is NPR's Scott Horsley. Scott, thank you.

[Scott Horsley]

You're welcome.

[Emmy Martinez]

An appeal hearing for President Trump's criminal conviction and sentencing is set to take place in a federal court of appeals in Manhattan today.

[Michelle Martin]

It is the latest in a case involving hush money payments to the adult film star Stormy Daniels of the 2016 election in which Trump was convicted on all 34 counts last year.

[Emmy Martinez]

NPR's Cat Lonsdorf is in New York for the hearing. Cat, before we get into the hearing, remind us how he got here.

[Kat Lonsdorf]

So Trump was convicted in May of last year, before the election, on 34 counts of falsifying business records, which he did to conceal a payment to Stormy Daniels. The payment was in exchange for her silence ahead of the 2016 election about an alleged sexual encounter. And just a reminder, there were several cases, both civil and criminal, against Trump ahead of last year's election, but this was the only criminal case to go to trial. The conviction made Trump the first president to also be a convicted felon. And as far as sentencing goes, the judge ruled that basically because Trump's president, he won't face prison time or other penalties, but the conviction will remain on his record.

[Emmy Martinez]

Okay, the hearing today, what argument for appeal are Trump's lawyers making?

[Kat Lonsdorf]

Okay, so it's a little wonky, but basically, Trump was tried, convicted and sentenced in the New York State court system. His lawyers have tried, tried, and failed twice before to get the case moved to federal court, essentially hoping it would get dismissed that way. And they keep citing a specific law that allows federal officials to make such a move if the case involves conduct while in office, but is yet to work. Remember, the hush money payment at the heart of this case occurred before the 2016 election when Trump was still a candidate. But now Trump's lawyers are making the argument again, saying that prosecutors during the trial relied on evidence related to Trump's first term, and therefore, this law applies.

[Emmy Martinez]

All right. What are the chances that's going to work?

[Kat Lonsdorf]

Well, legal experts I talked to say it's a long shot. Basically, here's Jed Sugarman. He's a professor at Boston University School of Law, and he told me he thinks this is an example of Trump's lawyers exhausting every possible argument in the hopes of getting this conviction overturned.

[Emmy Martinez]

This argument is such a stretch. In this particular case, it's a clearly losing argument that any federal Judge on the 2nd Circuit, Republican or Democratic appointee, would and should reject.

[Kat Lonsdorf]

But, you know, Trump has also filed an appeal through the state court system, and Sugarman says that is actually where he thinks the strongest possible arguments are those hearings just haven't happened yet.

[Martin Costi]

All right.

[Emmy Martinez]

So what do you think we're going to find out about today?

[Kat Lonsdorf]

So today's hearing is in front of a three judge panel and they'll have to confer. So there won't be a decision today. But what we'll really be listening for is what questions the judges ask, if they're skeptical or not, what they're skeptical about this hearing. And the decision will have implications beyond just Trump's case. If the judges rule in Trump's favor, it could ultimately make it easier to work around the state courts in our judicial system.

[Emmy Martinez]

All right. That's NPR's Kat Lonsdorf in New York. Kat, thanks.

[Kat Lonsdorf]

Thank you.

[Emmy Martinez]

And that's up first for Wednesday, June 11th, Emmy Martinez and I'm Michelle Martin.

[Michelle Martin]

Your next listen is CONSIDER THIS from npr. We hear it up first, give you the three big stories of the day. Our CONSIDER this colleagues take a different approach. They dive into a single new story and what it means to you in less than 15 minutes. Listen now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Emmy Martinez]

Today's episode of up first was edited by Gigi Gaban, Rafael Nam, Emma Bowman, Lisa Thompson and Alice Wolfley was produced by Ziad Buch, Ian Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from David Greenberg. Our technical director is Carly Strange. Join us again tomorrow. Tomorrow.

[N/A]

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