Negotiating Trump's Sweeping Agenda, South Africa's President, DOGE Cuts

Summary

Up First from NPR – May 21, 2025

Episode: Negotiating Trump's Sweeping Agenda, South Africa's President, DOGE Cuts
Hosts: Leila Fadel, Steve Inskeep, Michel Martin, A Martinez
Release Date: May 21, 2025

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1. Negotiating Trump's Sweeping Agenda

Overview

President Donald Trump is pressing House Republicans to back his extensive tax and spending proposal, which includes significant borrowing. The administration warns that any Republican opposition could lead to electoral fallout.

Key Discussions

• Trump's Ultimatum to Republicans

  • Steve Inskeep [00:02]: "President Trump warns House Republicans to accept a proposal for tax and spending changes, along with a lot of borrowing."
  • Layla Fadell [00:08]: "He predicts any Republican who resists would be knocked out. So why are some saying no?"

• House Dynamics and Republican Resistance

  • Deirdre Walsh [03:21]: "The Congressional Budget Office found that at least 8.6 million people could lose health care coverage due to these changes. The poorest, the bottom 10% of Americans would see their household resources drop due to the policy and tax changes in this package, while the top 10% would get a bump in income."

• Bill Components and Impact

  • Deirdre Walsh [04:03]: "The tax cuts are really the central plank in the bill. The bill permanently extends the 2017 tax cuts that are going to expire at the end of December. It adds new tax breaks like no tax on overtime, no tax on tips, things that Trump campaigned on."
  • Impact on Healthcare and Social Programs
    • Deirdre Walsh [04:05]: "It adds work requirements for adults without dependence on Medicaid. It changes eligibility rules. That can mean people end up getting removed from the roles."

• Prospects in the Senate

  • Deirdre Walsh [05:25]: "Senate Majority Leader John Thune said Senate Republicans want to see further spending cuts to reduce the deficit. Other Republicans in the Senate are critical of the Medicaid changes in this House package."
  • Fiscal Pressures
    • Deirdre Walsh [05:25]: "The Treasury Department is going to run out of money to pay its bills this summer. So lawmakers included a $4 trillion increase in the debt ceiling to avoid a default."

Notable Quotes

• Steve Inskeep [00:08]: "He predicts any Republican who resists would be knocked out."
• Deirdre Walsh [04:03]: "The bill permanently extends the 2017 tax cuts... no tax on overtime, no tax on tips."
• Deirdre Walsh [05:25]: "Senate Republicans want to see further spending cuts to reduce the deficit."

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2. South Africa's President to Meet President Trump

Background

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa is scheduled to meet with President Trump amidst strained relations. The Trump administration has accused South Africa of discriminating against its white citizens, a claim the South African government denies.

Key Discussions

• Trump's Accusations and South Africa's Response

  • Layla Fadell [06:10]: "South African President Cyril Ramaphosa is set to meet President Trump today at the White House for talks amid deteriorating relations between the two countries."
  • Kate Bartlett [06:48]: "Trump has been repeating right-wing conspiracy theories, claiming without evidence that white Africana farmers are being persecuted."

• Ramaphosa's Negotiation Strategy

  • Kate Bartlett [07:45]: "Ramaphosa is a skilled negotiator... he might try to appeal to Trump's transactional side. South Africa is rich in minerals like Platinum. And Ramaphosa is expected to appeal to the US's interests in countering China's influence in Africa."

• Public Sentiment in South Africa

  • Stephen Fowler [08:52]: "We all know the genocide narrative is false. They should tell them to stay away from our affairs, but not in those words, you know, in a nicer way."

• Concerns Over Trump's Admiration for Mandela

  • Kate Bartlett [09:02]: "Ramaphosa might also want to bring up the one South African Trump does seem to admire, Nelson Mandela. He's repeatedly compared himself and his legal problems to Mandela's 27 years in jail for the struggle against apartheid. That comparison drew anger from Mandela's family."

Notable Quotes

• Steve Inskeep [07:13]: "We're the only country on the continent where the colonizers came to stay and we have never driven them out of our country."
• Stephen Fowler [08:52]: "The genocide narrative is false. They should tell them to stay away from our affairs."
• Kate Bartlett [09:02]: "He's repeatedly compared himself and his legal problems to Mandela's 27 years in jail."

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3. DOGE Cuts: Department of Government Efficiency Under Scrutiny

Overview

Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) has been aggressively seeking to reduce the size of the federal government by targeting numerous agencies and organizations. Despite Musk stepping back, DOGE continues its initiatives, facing legal challenges and resistance.

Key Discussions

• DOGE's Outreach and Actions

  • Steve Inskeep [09:23]: "DOGE keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink."
  • Stephen Fowler [09:55]: "DOGE has sought to intervene in dozens more entities, even some outside government."

• Responses from Targeted Entities

  • Stephen Fowler [10:31]: "DOGE has moved quickly. At the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, for example, in less than one week, an email led to a video call, led to an in-person meeting, and now a DOGE team is being onboarded."
  • Non-Government Organizations' Rejections
    • Stephen Fowler [11:12]: "They rejected that request from DOGE last week."

• Legal Challenges and Pushback

  • Stephen Fowler [11:37]: "There are more than a dozen lawsuits that have been filed related to DOGE efforts at these small organizations that say it's not legal."
  • Judicial Rulings Against DOGE
    • Stephen Fowler [12:22]: "A judge ordered a halt to DOGE related shutdowns at the Institute of Museum and Library Services... this week, a different federal judge found DOGE's takeover of the US Institute of Peace was illegal."

• Implications of DOGE’s Actions

  • Stephen Fowler [12:27]: "President Trump has a very clear mission of what a government remade in his image looks like. Looks like it's smaller, there's less bureaucracy, and those people and institutions who are left answer directly to him and his viewpoints."
  • Legal Limitations
    • Stephen Fowler [12:27]: "That's not always what the law allows."

Notable Quotes

• Stephen Fowler [09:55]: "DOGE has sought to intervene in dozens more entities, even some outside government."
• Stephen Fowler [11:37]: "There are more than a dozen lawsuits that have been filed related to DOGE efforts... say it's not legal."
• Stephen Fowler [12:27]: "President Trump has a very clear mission of what a government remade in his image looks like."

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Conclusion

In this episode of Up First, NPR delves into President Trump's ambitious legislative agenda and the internal battles within the Republican Party to secure its passage. Concurrently, international tensions rise as South Africa's President Ramaphosa seeks to mend strained relations with the U.S., amid unfounded accusations by the Trump administration. Lastly, NPR uncovers the tumultuous efforts of Elon Musk's DOGE to streamline the federal government, highlighting significant legal hurdles and resistance from various agencies. Through insightful reporting and expert analysis, Up First provides a comprehensive overview of these pivotal national and international issues shaping the current political landscape.

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For more in-depth coverage, visit NPR's Morning Edition.

Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

President Trump warns House Republicans to accept a proposal for tax and spending changes, along with a lot of borrowing.

[Layla Fadell]

He predicts any Republican who resists would be knocked out. So why are some saying no?

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm Steve Inskeep with Layla Fadell, and this is up first from NPR News. South Africa's president is coming to Washington. He'll be meeting with President Trump, whose administration has accused South Africa of discriminating against its own white citizens. How does all this look from Georgia.

[Layla Fadell]

Johannesburg and Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency is trying to expand its reach. Musk has taken a step back, but an NPR analysis found the unit has sought recently to intervene in dozens more entities, even some outside government. Is that legal? Stay with us. We've got the news. You need to start your day.

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[Layla Fadell]

President Trump met with House Republicans in the Capitol yesterday, urging them to get behind his massive tax and immigration bill or risk a tax increase.

[Deirdre Walsh]

I mean, what Republican could vote for.

[Steve Inskeep]

That to happen because they wouldn't be.

[Deirdre Walsh]

A Republican much longer.

[Steve Inskeep]

They would get, they would be knocked out so fast. House Speaker Mike Johnson wants a vote as soon as today, but as always, he needs almost every Republican on his side in order to pass it.

[Layla Fadell]

NPR's Deirdre Walsh is at the Capitol and she joins me now. Good morning, Deirdre.

[Deirdre Walsh]

Good morning, Layla.

[Layla Fadell]

So did Trump's pep rally with House Republicans build the support he needs for that bill?

[Deirdre Walsh]

He he did sway some who praised his sales job. But the president failed to convince a significant block of Republican holdouts. There are moderates who represent districts with high state and local taxes who want a bigger tax break for their constituents. There are conservatives worried about ballooning deficits and say this bill does not go far enough to slash spending and deal with the deficit. The speaker spent the day and overnight hours trying to negotiate with these factions. And remember, he can only lose three votes. And we already know one member, Tom Massie of Kentucky, is a hard no.

[Layla Fadell]

Okay. So did leaders agree to any of these demands to move some of these holdouts potentially overnight?

[Deirdre Walsh]

A key committee met to set the parameters to start debate on the House floor, and that panel is still meeting. The speaker said when they started around 1am they were close to a deal, but we haven't seen any details yet. Leaders are expected to increase the amount of that state and local tax deduction to address the concerns of some moderates. They need. Conservatives say there's been some progress on more savings. But Layla, it's like whack a mole. You agree to one change from one group and it could mean losing support from another group.

[Layla Fadell]

So, Deirdre, talk about the major components in the bill and what their impact would be.

[Deirdre Walsh]

So the tax cuts are really the central plank in the bill. The bill permanently extends the 2017 tax cuts that are going to expire at the end of December. It adds new tax breaks like no tax on overtime, no tax on tips, things that Trump campaigned on. Those tax breaks expire in four years after Trump leaves office. The bill has roughly one and a half trillion in spending cuts, and a big chunk of those come from changes to Medicaid. That's the health care program for elderly, low income and disabled. It adds work requirements for adults without dependence on Medicaid. It changes eligibility rules. That can mean people end up getting removed from the roles. Trump said during his visit to the Capitol there wouldn't be any cuts. And the measure is focused on cutting waste from fraud and abuse. But the Congressional Budget Office found that at least 8.6 million people could lose health care coverage due to these changes. And CBO analysis that came out late last night found out that the poorest, the bottom 10% of Americans would see their household resources drop due to the policy and tax changes in this package, While the top 10% would get a bump in income. And we should also note that the bill makes cuts to food assistance programs, and that could impact millions of children who rely on that program for school lunches.

[Layla Fadell]

So if this bill gets through the House. What are the prospects in the Senate?

[Deirdre Walsh]

I mean, there are going to be changes in the Senate. Senate Majority Leader John Thune said Senate Republicans want to see further spending cuts to reduce the deficit. Other Republicans in the Senate are critical of the Medicaid changes in this House package. But there's big pressure for both chambers to get to a final deal because those tax cuts expire at the end of December. And, and the Treasury Department is going to run out of money to pay its bills this summer. So lawmakers included a $4 trillion increase in the debt ceiling to avoid a default. But for right now, House Republican leaders are still negotiating to try to get the votes to get it through the house.

[Layla Fadell]

That's NPR's Deirdre Walsh. Thank you, Deirdre.

[Deirdre Walsh]

Thanks, Leila.

[Layla Fadell]

South African President Cyril Ramaphosa is set to meet President Trump today at the White House for talks amid deter deteriorating relations between the two countries.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yeah, this is interesting. Earlier this year, the Trump administration cut aid to South Africa and expelled the South African ambassador. In recent days, the US Took another step. The president, who has been pushing away refugees from other parts of the world, granted refugee status to white South Africans. Now the government of the black majority country says it wants a reset.

[Layla Fadell]

With me now is reporter Kate Bartlett, who's in Johannesburg. Good morning, Kate.

[Kate Bartlett]

Good morning.

[Layla Fadell]

Okay, so get us up to speed. What brought this meeting about?

[Kate Bartlett]

Basically, for months, Trump has been saying terrible things have been happening in South Africa. He's been repeating right wing conspiracy theories, claiming without evidence that white Africana farmers are being persecuted and their land confiscated. The South African government, the data, and most experts say there's no evidence of that. And Ramaphosa hasn't hidden his frustration over Trump's actions. Here he is last week.

[Steve Inskeep]

We're the only country on the continent where the colonizers came to stay and we have never driven them out of our country.

[Kate Bartlett]

The South African government says the people taking up Trump's refugee offer are simply people who still can't accept apartheid is over. So Ramaphosa faces an uphill battle. And Trump will likely berate South Africa for taking Israel to the Hague over claims of a genocide in its war in Gaza.

[Layla Fadell]

So how will Ramaphosa approach the meeting?

[Kate Bartlett]

Well, Ramaphosa is a skilled negotiator. He worked alongside Nelson Mandela and was instrumental in the talks that ended apartheid. Now he needs to salvage the US Relationship, which is of huge economic importance to South Africa. He might try to appeal to Trump's transactional side. South Africa is rich in minerals like Platinum. And Ramaphosa is expected to appeal to the US's interests in countering China's influence in Africa as well. And he could offer a deal to Trump's South African born advisor, Elon Musk. The billionaire businessman objects to affirmative action laws that he claims prevent him from rolling out his Starlink satellite service in South Africa.

[Layla Fadell]

And what do ordinary South Africans think about all this?

[Kate Bartlett]

Well, South Africans are watching anxiously to see if Ramaphosa is humiliated the way Ukrainian President Zelensky was on his visit to the Oval Office earlier this year. And many South Africans, both white and black, are really angry with Trump's attacks on their country. I spoke to people at a Johannesburg cafe, including 42 year old barista Ciaralo.

[Stephen Fowler]

We all know the genocide narrative is false. They should tell them to stay away from our affairs, but not in those words, you know, in a nicer way.

[Kate Bartlett]

Ramaphosa might also want to bring up the one South African Trump does seem to admire, Nelson Mandela. He's repeatedly compared himself and his legal problems to Mandela's 27 years in jail for the struggle against apartheid. That comparison drew anger from Mandela's family.

[Layla Fadell]

That's reporter Kate Bartlett in Johannesburg. Thank you, Kate.

[Kate Bartlett]

Thank you.

[Deirdre Walsh]

Foreign.

[Steve Inskeep]

Musk may not be spending quite so much time at the White House.

[Layla Fadell]

But his creation, the Ad hoc Department of Government Efficiency, keeps finding new parts of the federal government to try to shrink. A new analysis by NPR found at least 40 agencies and groups that Doge has tried to cut in recent weeks.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's Stephen Fowler is covering all of this and is online. Hi there, Stephen.

[Stephen Fowler]

Good morning.

[Steve Inskeep]

So who's getting a knock on the door here?

[Stephen Fowler]

Well, the knock is often an email from one of a few DOGE staffers based in the General Services Administration. They're seeking to learn more about operations and to embed a team within the organization. Now, some of them have already been effectively dismantled by doge, like the Inter American foundation and Millennium Challenge Corporation. Some of them have been targeted for elimination by the president in his proposal for next year's budget. Like AmeriCorps, the the outreach has been to this constellation of commissions, boards and entities that are all small and independent.

[Steve Inskeep]

Well, how have some of these dozens of entities responded after the email?

[Stephen Fowler]

In many of these places, DOGE has moved quickly. At the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, for example, in less than one week, an email led to a video call, led to an in person meeting, and now a DOGE team is being onboarded. On April 17 alone, the DOGE staffers scheduled meetings with officials from the Truman Scholarship foundation, the Denali Commission, the Office of Navajo and Hopi Indian Relocation, and the US Access Board. And that's according to two sources not authorized to speak about Doge's operations.

[Steve Inskeep]

I guess we should mention different laws apply to different organizations which themselves are organized differently. Could they just say no thanks to Doge's requests?

[Stephen Fowler]

Some of them already have, because these Doge folks have also tried to reach out to organizations that aren't government agencies at all, like the private nonprofit Vera Institute of Justice, the independent nonprofit Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and the Government Accountability Office, which is part of the legislative branch. And they are also outside of Doge's purview. So they rejected that request from Doge last week.

[Steve Inskeep]

How legal is any of this?

[Stephen Fowler]

Well, there are more than a dozen lawsuits that have been filed related to Doge efforts at these small organizations that say it's not legal. By and large, these are places that have been created by Congress, many of them nonprofits, and nearly all of them do have their funding and functions spelled out by law. And some of those cases explicitly limiting the president's power to interact with them. That means President Trump can't always go in and fire people and make changes on his own. In the last week, a judge ordered a halt to Doge related shutdowns at the Institute of Museum and Library Services, the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service, and the Minority Business Development Agency. And and this week, a different federal judge found Doge's takeover of the US Institute of Peace was illegal.

[Steve Inskeep]

Stephen, what does all of this add to your understanding of what Doge is doing?

[Stephen Fowler]

Well, President Trump has a very clear mission of what a government remade in his image. Looks like it's smaller, there's less bureaucracy, and those people and institutions who are left answer directly to him and his viewpoints. But that's not always what the law allows. And the Doge MO of Act First, Ask Questions later has led to plenty, plenty of conflicts the last few months and setbacks in achieving that goal. Also, for all of the hype about Elon Musk and his role and stepping back from Doge, the small agency outreach we've seen just illustrates where the real Doge work is being carried out and that it's still ongoing.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's Stephen Fowler, who reported this story with our colleague Shannon Bond. Thanks so much.

[Stephen Fowler]

Thank you.

[Layla Fadell]

And that's up first for Wednesday, May 21st. I'm Layla Foldon.

[Steve Inskeep]

And I'm Steve Inskeep. Thanks for listening to Up First. You can find more coverage of the stories we discuss today on NPR's Morning Edition. It's a radio show. Layla co hosts that radio show, which is one of the main reasons you'd want to tune in. I get to do it with her along with A. Martinez and Michelle Martin. And you can find MORNING EDITION on your NPR station. And if you're wondering how to do.

[Layla Fadell]

That, go to stations npr.com Today's episode of Up first was edited by Rylan Barton, Kevin Drew, Brett Neely, Tara Neal, Ali Schweitzer and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Butch, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hyness, and our technical director is David Greenberg. Join us again tomorrow.

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