Up First from NPR: One-on-One with Utah Governor Spencer Cox

Episode Date: November 25, 2025
Host: Steve Inskeep
Guest: Utah Governor Spencer Cox

Episode Overview

In this special edition of Up First, host Steve Inskeep conducts an in-depth interview with Utah Governor Spencer Cox. The episode explores key national issues through the lens of recent political violence, deepening social polarization, challenges facing democracy, the role of faith in public life, and the economic and ethical disruptions from artificial intelligence and energy policy. Cox reflects candidly on his own political journey, Utah’s unique responses, and broader lessons for the nation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Political Violence, Polarization, and the Aftermath of Charlie Kirk's Assassination

• Cox’s Reaction to the Assassination (01:15–03:18)
  The murder of activist Charlie Kirk in Utah made Cox “as angry as I have ever been, as sad as I have ever been.” He used the moment to urge Americans to “log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a family member, go out and do good in your community.”

  • Quote (01:28):

    “I would encourage people to log off, turn off, touch grass, hug a family member, go out and do good in your community.” – Spencer Cox

• A Pivot Point for the Nation (02:22–03:41)
  Cox believed Kirk’s murder represented a potential pivot opportunity for national depolarization, pressing the question:

  “Is this an off ramp? Are we gonna take an off ramp or are we going to continue to hate each other and foment that type of tribalism that leads to these very dark deeds and evil moments?” – Spencer Cox (03:24)

• Public Response (03:44–05:15)
  Cox recounts positive feedback from across the political spectrum, suggesting a national hunger for depolarization and renewed civic responsibility.

  • He shares a moving story:

    “My son said, I need to be a better person. I want to do something different with my life… Those are the kinds of experiences and conversations that are happening around kitchen tables all across our country.” – Spencer Cox (04:28)

2. Handling Dissent, Transgender Athlete Ban, and Political Identity

• Facing Booing & Disagreement (05:30–06:45)
  When confronted with public booing at a conservative event for his stance on trans athletes, Cox emphasizes the value of dialogue:

  “That's really important. And I think that's what Charlie stood for as well. We should go into places where maybe people disagree with us… But that's the very thing that this assassination makes so appalling, is that there is now fear for people to go into a situation like that.” – Spencer Cox (05:32 and 06:10)

• Transgender Athlete Policy (06:45–08:38)
  Cox discusses his veto of a bill banning trans students from sports, standing by a more nuanced, practical approach:

  “It wasn't just that there were four athletes. It was that we had actually worked on something that would protect women's sports… The ban… would have bankrupted the high school athletic association and the school district... we did protect women's sports.” – Spencer Cox (07:18)

• Governor’s Political Brand (08:53–09:37) Cox defines himself as a principled conservative who makes room for others:

  “That's my brand. But I also just think that's the story of America. That was the founder's brand… The only way we can get things done is by working together.” – Spencer Cox

3. Violence, Rhetoric, and Accountability

• Messages to Right and Left (09:37–11:22) Cox insists individuals, not ideologies, are responsible for political violence:

  “It's very easy to demonize entire groups of people. It's easy to win elections when you do that... But I don't think that's a long term strategy. And it also happens to not be true.” – Spencer Cox (09:56)

• Rhetoric and Radicalization (12:30) He warns about dangerous language fueling extremism:

  “We use words like ‘gotta go to battle’... We don’t literally mean that we’re going to battle… But as the rhetoric gets heightened, then they feel like they need to act out on that, and that's an incredibly dangerous environment.” – Spencer Cox

4. Loss of Trust in Government and the Case for Building (14:02–16:51)

• Why Americans Distrust Government Cox attributes distrust to governmental failures and broken promises, especially around infrastructure and cost of living:

  “We used to be a country of builders… Now we don't do any of that stuff. And so people are just losing their faith when we make promises that we don't keep.” – Spencer Cox (14:04)

• Suggests bipartisan momentum for reform and rebuilding (“nascent abundance movement”).

• Permitting Reform & Bipartisanship (15:23–16:51) Cooperation across the aisle is slowly emerging on issues like energy and permitting.

5. Leadership, Faith, and Working Across Divides

• Endorsement and Views on Trump (16:51–19:54) Cox endorsed Trump on the grounds of national unity post-assassination attempt, but admits Trump hasn’t delivered on unity:

  “I think if you were to ask him that question, he would say, no. I don't think that's happened for sure.” – Spencer Cox (17:22)

  • Cox values his relationship with Trump but notes a difference in philosophy, especially on forgiving enemies.

• Faith and Public Office (20:29–22:13) Cox describes his faith as integral:

  “My faith is core to my politics… It doesn't mean we have to separate our faith from our personhood in public service… If you don't like that, you shouldn't vote for me.” – Spencer Cox (20:34)

  • On forgiveness:

    “It’s not just that we're supposed to forgive our enemies, but it's to love our enemies and to do good to them… Man, that's hard. Some people think it's a weakness. I think it's the exact opposite.” – Spencer Cox (21:15–21:56)

• Pluralism and Religious Rights (23:39–24:22) Cox asserts respect for all faiths and the necessity of non-preferential, pluralist governance.

6. Energy Policy and the AI Data Surge

• Nuclear Power and Building Again (26:44–28:21) Cox is aggressively pushing nuclear energy development in Utah to meet both economic and national security needs as AI data centers expand:

  “We're trying to build [nuclear] and lots of it... The United States is again leading with new technology and ability to make these even safer. The safest technology on earth so that we can have an abundance of energy.” – Spencer Cox (26:50–27:35)

• Downsides of AI, Data Centers, and Energy Demand (28:31–34:01) AI’s energy intensity is a concern, as are the social risks of unchecked AI and data center growth:

  “Plumbers are going to do great, attorneys are going to do very poorly. And we've never had that kind of technological disruption.” – Spencer Cox (32:20)

  • Worries about AI’s impact on social connection and mental health, calls for “human flourishing” policies

  • On AI Addiction and Alienation (30:59):

    “We're lonelier than we've ever been before and we're addicted to these devices. We're not having conversations with our neighbors... I can't think of anything more destructive.”

7. Loneliness, Community Breakdown, and “Politics as Religion”

• Loss of Connection, Rise of Tribalism (35:56–38:58) Cox draws on Robert Putnam’s 'Bowling Alone' to explain American loneliness and tribalism:

  “Politics is replacing religion. I always like to say if I don't have any real friends, at least we can hate the same people together on Facebook or TikTok. And that's no replacement for true conversation.” – Spencer Cox (37:55)

  • The decline of intermediate organizations (churches, clubs) leaves people vulnerable to unhealthy “tribes” and heightened polarization.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Social Alienation & Politics

  “If I don't have any real friends, at least we can hate the same people together on Facebook or TikTok.”
  (Spencer Cox, 37:55)

• On Building Bridges, Not Walls

  “We have to build coalitions.”
  (Spencer Cox, 09:37)

• On Honest Dialogue with Trump

  “He and I disagree on that point. I believe that we are commanded to forgive our enemies… And that's… the hardest thing in life.”
  (Spencer Cox, 19:56–21:56)

• On Technology’s Impact on Jobs

  “Plumbers are going to do great, attorneys are going to do very poorly. And we've never had that kind of technological disruption.”
  (Spencer Cox, 32:20)

Important Segment Timestamps

| Segment | Time | |-----------------------------------------|-----------| | Kirk's Assassination & Societal Reflection | 01:01–05:15 | | Transgender Athlete Policy & Booing | 05:15–08:38 | | Brand of Leadership & Bipartisanship | 08:38–09:37 | | Responsibility & Rhetoric in Politics | 09:37–12:45 | | Trust in Government & Need to Build | 14:02–16:51 | | Endorsement of Trump & Philosophy of Forgiveness | 16:51–19:56 | | Role of Faith in Public Life | 20:29–24:22 | | Nuclear Power Policy & AI Challenge | 26:44–34:01 | | Social Disconnection & Political Religion | 35:56–38:58 |

Tone & Style

Cox comes across as earnest, reflective, and occasionally blunt, maintaining a measured, thoughtful tone throughout. He is unafraid to admit past missteps or highlight contradictions in himself and others, while consistently urging constructive engagement and the restoration of civil society.

Takeaways

• Depolarization Requires Deliberate Action: Cox is hopeful about gradual cultural shifts away from animosity but acknowledges deep-seated issues.
• Building Together Is a Civic Necessity: Energy, infrastructure, and community-building require coalitions and bipartisan work.
• Faith Can Guide but Not Dominate Politics: Cox’s approach is to be transparent about his faith-driven values while upholding pluralism.
• AI & Technology Disruption Are Imminent: Policymakers must grapple with rapid, cross-class disruption from AI, data centers, and changing employment landscapes.
• Loneliness Is a Political Danger: The breakdown of community makes people susceptible to extremism and political tribalism.

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