Public Opinion on Immigration, New Power Plant Rules, College Cost Sharing

Summary

Up First from NPR – June 12, 2025

NPR’s "Up First" delivers the three biggest stories to start your day, infused with in-depth reporting and analysis. In this episode, hosts Michelle Martin and Steve Inskeep delve into critical issues surrounding public opinion on immigration, the Trump administration’s new power plant regulations, and a controversial House Republican proposal on college cost sharing.

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1. Public Opinion on Immigration

Overview: The episode opens with a discussion on President Trump’s immigration policies, highlighting the divided public opinion on deportation strategies and the administration’s approach.

Key Points:

• Polling Insights:

  • Michelle Martin introduces the topic: “A divided country support for deportation changes depending on exactly who is being deported and how the government does it” (00:05).
  • Recent polls show fluctuating support for Trump’s deportation policies. A CBS poll reported a 54% approval rate, while a Quinnipiac poll just a day before indicated a 56% disapproval (04:43).

• Perspectives from Supporters:

  • Stefano Forte, President of the New York Young Republican Club, emphasizes the need to balance deportations: “We want to open the United States up... for now, the United States is full” (02:40).
  • Catherine Katari, a Republican voter from Brooklyn, supports strong enforcement: “I would welcome the Marines to my city” (02:30).

• Voices of Concern:

  • George PETA, an independent voter, expresses personal conflict: “I'm Hispanic myself and I see my people being treated like this... I just don't like the way it's being done” (02:53).
  • Jeff Brady cites Meredith Hankins from the Natural Resources Defense Council, who critiques the administration’s stance as “propping up the coal industry at a time when Americans are experiencing the effects of a hotter planet” (09:31).

Expert Analysis: NPR Senior Political Editor Domenico Montanaro discusses the volatility in polling data and the implications for political messaging. He notes the administration's shift toward targeting "hardened criminals" versus broader deportations and the Democrats' struggle to find a unified stance (05:09).

Notable Quotes:

• Dominique Baker from the University of Delaware remarks on the proposed college penalties: “That's right. The plan to punish schools for burying students in debt would exclude loans once they go into default” (13:29).

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2. New Power Plant Rules

Overview: The Trump administration's plan to eliminate limits on greenhouse gas emissions from power plants marks a significant shift in U.S. climate policy, drawing criticism from environmental groups and support from the fossil fuel industry.

Key Points:

• Policy Details:

  • The administration aims to remove EPA-imposed limits on emissions from existing coal and gas-fired power plants, arguing it will “unleash American energy” (00:12).
  • Jeff Brady explains the EPA's rationale: “US Power plants are a small and declining part of global greenhouse gas emissions, around 3%” (08:31).

• Reactions:

  • Meredith Hankins from the Natural Resources Defense Council criticizes the move as undermining climate efforts: “This action would be pretty laughable if the stakes weren't so high” (09:22).
  • Supporters within the fossil fuel industry, echoing President Trump’s agenda, view the repeal as an opportunity to expand fossil fuel extraction and utilization.

• Global Implications:

  • Jeff Brady outlines the administration’s withdrawal from the Paris Climate Agreement, positioning the repeal as part of a broader retreat from global climate commitments (10:08).

• Future Outlook:

  • The proposed rules are expected to undergo a comment period, with potential for court challenges following (10:46).

Expert Analysis: The episode highlights the tension between economic interests and environmental responsibilities, emphasizing the potential long-term impacts of dismantling regulatory frameworks aimed at mitigating climate change.

Notable Quotes:

• EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin states: “Rest assured, President Trump is the biggest supporter of clean, beautiful coal” (08:31).

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3. College Cost Sharing Proposal

Overview: House Republicans introduce a bold "risk sharing" proposal aimed at holding colleges accountable for their students' unpaid federal loans, sparking debate among educators and policymakers.

Key Points:

• Proposal Mechanics:

  • The plan requires colleges to reimburse the federal government for a portion of student loans that graduates fail to repay, categorized by academic programs (11:13).
  • Cory Turner, NPR Education Correspondent, explains that penalties would fund bonuses for institutions effectively supporting low-income students (12:23).

• Expert Opinions:

  • Concerns arise regarding the feasibility of data collection and the accuracy of the proposed penalty calculations.
  • Dominique Baker from the University of Delaware critiques the exclusion of defaulted loans from the penalty formula, suggesting it undermines the policy’s intent (13:29).

• Impact on Institutions:

  • Analysis from the American Enterprise Institute indicates that for-profit colleges like Strayer University and large private non-profits such as the University of Southern California could face significant financial burdens (13:33).

• Legislative Prospects:

  • The proposal faces challenges in garnering sufficient support in the Senate, with the need for reconciliation between House and Senate Republican versions likely impeding swift passage (14:05).

Notable Quotes:

• Joel Payne, Democratic strategist, emphasizes the need for Democrats to find a "politically palatable" approach to immigration, reflecting broader strategic considerations (06:19).

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Conclusion

In this episode, "Up First" navigates the complex landscapes of immigration policy, environmental regulation, and higher education funding. Through a blend of polling data, expert analysis, and firsthand accounts, NPR provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of these pivotal issues shaping the national discourse.

Additional Insights: The episode underscores the interconnectedness of policy decisions and public sentiment, highlighting the challenges faced by policymakers in balancing economic interests, social values, and environmental responsibilities.

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Produced by Dana Farrington, Neela Banerjee, Nicole Cohen, Lisa Thompson, and Alice Wolfley. Engineering by Eisha Hyness, with technical direction from Carly Strange.

Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

Polling on President Trump's immigration policies shows.

[Michelle Martin]

A divided country support for deportation changes depending on exactly who is being deported and how the government does it. What are the numbers?

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin. And this is up first from NPR News. The Trump administration plans to get rid of limits on greenhouse gases emitted from power plants. The EPA says this step will help fulfill a promise to unleash American energy. Some disagree.

[Jeff Brady]

This action would be pretty laughable if the stakes weren't so high.

[Steve Inskeep]

So what are those stakes?

[Michelle Martin]

And the Republican mega bill proposes putting colleges on the hook for their students loans. Will the math add up? Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day.

[Dana Farrington]

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[Michelle Martin]

Second term in part because of what he had to say about immigration.

[Steve Inskeep]

Now the country is seeing exactly how the administration following through the president's actions have provoked a lot of protest, as we've been hearing all week, and also considerable support.

[Michelle Martin]

And we're going to start with the voices of Americans who generally support the president. Stefano Forte is president of the New York Young Republican Club. He says on immigration, we need to.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Take a pause and then later on down the line, we can decide if.

[Cory Turner]

We want to open the United States up. But for right now, the United States is full.

[Steve Inskeep]

In Miami, George PETA says he's an independent, that he voted for Trump and he's torn down the middle.

[Domenico Montanaro]

It's rough because I'm Hispanic myself and I see my people being treated like this. I'm in agreement with having to deport Massly because a lot of illegals did come through. I just don't like the way it's being done.

[Michelle Martin]

Julie Cantwell is a Republican running for state representative in Rineyville, Kentucky.

[Domenico Montanaro]

They want to deport the violent criminals, but a lot of people also feel that as strong Republicans that we don't want to rip families apart because we do believe in family values.

[Steve Inskeep]

Catherine Katari, a longtime Republican voter in Brooklyn, says she would welcome the Marines to her city.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I said, ooh, simplify, ooh, lead the.

[Michelle Martin]

National Guard, sit them down on the.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Sidelines and bring the Marine Corps in.

[Michelle Martin]

My son in law has a business in soho. We work hard for everything. And you're breaking my window.

[Jeff Brady]

Hell, no.

[Michelle Martin]

So for more on public opinion about immigration and politics, we're going to turn to NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro. Domenico, good morning.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Hey, Michelle.

[Michelle Martin]

So where does the polling stand on this and how has it changed over time?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, whether or not people think immigration should increase or decrease, you know, tends to depend on the number of immigrants who cross the border illegally. You know, what I mean by this is that Gallup has been polling for decades about this sentiment and found last year, for example, that in its latest survey with this question in it that 55% of people wanted immigration to decrease. That's the highest it's been since 2001. And that was a very different political moment just after 9 11. But but it was also the last time encounters at the southern border were as high as they were in the last couple of years.

[Michelle Martin]

So President Trump has certainly made immigration a key part of his message. I mean, that's, you know, since his first run for the presidency. But how do people view how he is handling it now?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, we've gotten some conflicting messages from poll respondents on this across various surveys. For example, just this week, a CBS poll found 54% approved of his deportation policies. But just yesterday, a quinnipiac poll showed 56% disapprove. What that tells us for people who watch politics closely is that there's volatility in the numbers. And that means a certain percentage of people are open to being swayed. And that's when circumstances and political messaging here are really important.

[Michelle Martin]

Okay, what kinds of circumstances?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, Trump certainly is at risk of going too far, you know, just because overall people say that they're in favor of deporting those without permanent legal status. There's a difference between the kinds of hardened criminals that the administration said it would focus on and. And those who are hardworking members of communities and construction or restaurants or elsewhere. We've seen some pushback from within the president's own party, even warning that it should be cautious in how far they go. But cultural hardliners in the White House like Stephen Miller disagree. They have the president's ear, and they're going to focus on any violence as a result of the protests and try and make that the focus.

[Michelle Martin]

And what about how the Democrats talk about this? What are you hearing about how they should be responding?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Well, Democrats had really been having trouble finding their sea legs in talking about immigration. Trump focused on immigration during the campaign. Democrats lost, and some of them have shied away from making a strong case in favor of immigration. But in this moment, there seems to be some early signs of coalescing about how Democrats should talk about this. Joel Payne's a Democratic strategist. He says that he's starting to see some Democrats talk about it in a way that he thinks is politically palatable.

[Cory Turner]

The American people, I think, want a Democratic Party that understands the value of managing the border, but also does not abandon the value of supporting and uplifting immigrant communities.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Shoikat Chakrabarti is a former chief of staff to Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. He is running for Congress in San Francisco against former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. He thinks in general that Democrats have to fight harder on most things, but on immigration. And he said he thinks that the party and people like California Governor Gavin Newsom are striking the right tone.

[Jeff Brady]

I don't think anybody in the country sees a woman, you know, a mom, getting picked up from a school pickup line by masked agents in unmarked vans and think, oh, yeah, that's what I voted for. That's what I want. That's humane. I don't think that matters if you're progressive, moderate, or Republican. I think that's just basic common sense about where we want the country to be.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, with the deportation policy shift toward workplaces, the narrative from Republicans is changing from one about border security to targeting criminals, which pulls very well to something very different. And the further Trump goes, Democrats feel like the easier it is for them to have a message and appear to be united on this.

[Michelle Martin]

That is NPR's Domenico Montanaro. Domenico, thank you.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You're welcome.

[Michelle Martin]

The Trump administration plans to repeal limits on greenhouse gas pollution from the country's fossil fuel power plants.

[Steve Inskeep]

These are coal and gas generators, and they are the second largest source of climate heating greenhouse gases.

[Michelle Martin]

Jeff Brady is here from NPR's Climate Desk with more. Good morning, Jeff.

[Jeff Brady]

Hello, Michelle.

[Michelle Martin]

So what is the Trump administration proposing?

[Jeff Brady]

They are removing any responsibility that fossil fuel power plants have under current rules to help with raining and climate change. If this rule is finalized, there will be no limits on greenhouse gases for existing coal fired power plants and new gas fired ones. And this is all part of President Trump's effort to move away from the climate policies of the Biden administration and refund focus on exploiting more domestic fossil fuels. Here's Environmental Protection Agency Administrator Lee Zeldin at yesterday's announcement.

[Domenico Montanaro]

Rest assured, President Trump is the biggest supporter of clean, beautiful coal. We will use coal for power generation, to mine for critical minerals and to export to our allies. Today we are taking an important step towards putting America back on track to.

[Jeff Brady]

Justify lifting these limits on climate pollution. The EPA argues that US Power plants are a small and declining part of global greenhouse gas emissions, around 3%. So the agency argues they're no longer a significant contributor to the problem. But you know, I recently looked at one analysis that showed if US Power plants were a country, they'd be the sixth largest contributor to global climate change or global climate pollution.

[Michelle Martin]

Really, I see it. So what kind of reaction is this getting from the fossil fuel industry on the one hand, and environmental groups on the other?

[Jeff Brady]

I talked with Meredith Hankins, an attorney with the Natural Resources Defense Council. This action would be pretty laughable if the stakes weren't so high.

[Domenico Montanaro]

This administration is actually trying to argue.

[Jeff Brady]

That the largest industrial source of carbon pollution is somehow insignificant to the problem of climate change. Hangens and others say the Trump administration is propping up the coal industry at a time when Americans are experiencing the effects of a hotter planet. You know, more intense storms, flooding, heat waves and wildfires. Coal and gas companies, though, you know, they're big fans of the Trump administration's energy policies, including this one. And like the president, they see opportunity in tapping more of the country's fossil fuel reserves.

[Michelle Martin]

And so where does this leave the US in the global fight against climate change?

[Jeff Brady]

These power plant rules have gone through a couple of different evolutions. They started with President Barack Obama's Clean Power plan back in 2015. His administration took that proposal to the United nations climate meeting in Paris that year to show that the US Was serious about addressing greenhouse gas pollution and to encourage other countries to sign the landmark Paris Climate Agreement, which of course, they did. In that agreement, countries laid out how they're going to reduce their climate pollution to avoid the worst effects of a hotter planet. And Trump is once again removing the US from the Paris Agreement. Repealing these limits on power plants is part of that withdrawal from the global fight against climate change.

[Michelle Martin]

So what happens next with these power plant rules that the EPA has proposed?

[Jeff Brady]

There's going to be a comment period, maybe a rule by the end of the year, and shortly after that, I suspect they're going to be challenged in court.

[Michelle Martin]

That's NPR's Jeff Brady. Jeff, thank you.

[Jeff Brady]

Thank you.

[Michelle Martin]

Tucked inside House Republicans mega bill is a bold idea to hold colleges accountable for student loans.

[Steve Inskeep]

The concept is called risk sharing. The college has to share the risk. The proposal would order colleges to assume some financial responsibility for the debt that their students do not pay off. The Congressional Budget Office estimates this full proposal could save the government more than $6 billion over the next decade if it gets through the Senate.

[Michelle Martin]

With us now to talk more about this is NPR education correspondent Cory Turner. Corey, good morning.

[Cory Turner]

Good morning, Michelle.

[Michelle Martin]

So how exactly do House Republicans want to hold colleges accountable here?

[Cory Turner]

Well, the proposal would divide up a school's student loan borrowers by program. So imagine separating English majors from biology or computer science science majors, and then they'd calculate for each program in a given year how much borrowers were supposed to pay toward their federal student loans but didn't. After some more pretty complicated math, colleges would then have to reimburse the federal government for a share of that unpaid student loan debt. And Michelle, there's one extra twist here, which is that these penalties would then be recycled into bonuses to reward the schools that give low income students the biggest bang for their buck.

[Michelle Martin]

So, Curry, you talk to sort of experts who look at things like college financing all the time. What are they saying about this?

[Cory Turner]

Yeah, so there is pretty broad consensus around the idea that we need some kind of accountability for colleges. But I heard several really key worries about this plan. One of them is that it would require a ton of data and the Education Department, which would have to collect it has half the staff that it had before President Trump took office. There's another problem I heard with the math behind these school penalties. Dominique Baker at the University of Delaware says the math has a hole in it. The amount that would get charged for this would not include loan balances that were in default, which is very odd. That's right. The plan to punish schools for burying students in debt would exclude loans once they go into default. Multiple experts told me, Michelle, this was likely done out of fear that including defaults would basically make the penalties too painful for some schools.

[Michelle Martin]

So do we know which colleges would be hardest hit by these changes?

[Cory Turner]

Yeah, we have some idea. The conservative leaning American Enterprise Institute has been crunching the numbers and estimates. The schools on the hook for some of the biggest penalties would mostly fall into two categories. You got the for profit college chains like Strayer University and University of Phoenix and then big private nonprofit schools including the University of Southern California or usc, not because of their undergraduate debt, but because of their popular high priced grad programs.

[Michelle Martin]

So before I let you go, what are the chances of this plan getting through Congress?

[Cory Turner]

Well, I mean, it needs a simple majority to get through the Senate, but earlier this week, Republicans there released their own version of college accountability. So basically, like everything else in this bill, House and Senate Republicans are going to have to find a middle ground or give up on the idea.

[Michelle Martin]

That is NPR's Cory Turner. Cory, thank you. You're welcome. And that's up first for Thursday, June 12th. I'm Michelle Martin.

[Steve Inskeep]

And I'm Steve Inskeep. For your next listen, consider Consider this from NPR News. Up first gives you three big stories of the day. Consider this dives into a single news story and what it means to you in less than 15 minutes. Listen now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Michelle Martin]

Today's episode of up first was edited by Dana Farrington, Neela Banerjee, Nicole Cohen, Lisa Thompson and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Bunch, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Eisha Hyness, and our technical director is Carly Strange. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.

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