Scene From Vatican City, Life Of Pope Leo XIV, China Trade Talks

Summary

Up First from NPR – May 9, 2025

NPR's Up First brings you the three biggest stories to start your day with in-depth reporting and analysis. In this episode, hosts Leila Fadel and Steve Inskeep cover the historic election of the first American pope, Leo XIV, and the high-stakes trade negotiations between the United States and China.

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1. Historic Election of Pope Leo XIV

A. Event Description and Immediate Reactions

The episode opens with the momentous announcement from Vatican City that American Cardinal Robert Prevost has been elected as the new pope, adopting the name Leo XIV. Host Steve Inskeep introduces Ruth Sherlock, NPR’s Rome correspondent, who provides a vivid account of the event.

• Ruth Sherlock [02:37]: Describes the atmosphere leading up to the announcement, highlighting the diversity of the crowd praying in multiple languages and the palpable anticipation as white smoke signaled the selection of the new pope.

• Jason DeRose [03:23]: Shares the excitement of being present during the conclave, emphasizing the blend of prayer and hope among those waiting outside the Sistine Chapel.

Upon the announcement, the crowd erupted in chants of "Viva il Papa," mixed with initial confusion due to communication issues. Eventually, the name Prevost spread through the crowd, leading to his appearance on the balcony of St. Peter's Basilica.

B. Reactions to Pope Leo XIV

The reaction to an American pope was mixed, varying by region and personal expectations.

• Ruth Sherlock [04:48]: Highlights disappointment among Italians who traditionally expect an Italian pope, juxtaposed with jubilation among Americans celebrating this unprecedented event.

• Max Gleason [05:25]: A 21-year-old American college student studying in Rome expresses optimism, stating, “He just looks like someone who's gonna crush it,” reflecting a sense of hope and high expectations.

C. Background and Potential Leadership Style of Pope Leo XIV

Steve Inskeep brings in Jason DeRose and Max Gleason to delve into Pope Leo XIV’s background and what his papacy might entail.

• Max Gleason [06:05]: Details Pope Leo’s education at Villanova University, his membership in the Augustinians, and his extensive ministry in Peru. He notes Leo’s proficiency in Italian and Spanish, hinting at his global perspective.

• Max Gleason [07:02]: Quotes Cardinal Prevost's vision for church leadership: “The bishop is not supposed to be a little prince sitting in his kingdom, but rather called authentically to be humble, to be close to the people he serves, to walk with them, to suffer with them,” aligning with Pope Francis’s pastoral approach.

• Max Gleason [07:28]: Draws parallels to Pope Francis, suggesting Leo XIV will maintain a focus on humility and proximity to the congregation.

D. Controversies and Challenges Ahead

Despite the optimism, Pope Leo XIV faces scrutiny regarding his past actions and statements.

• Max Gleason [07:20]: Addresses criticisms from survivors of clergy sexual abuse, accusing Cardinal Prevost of inadequate responses during his tenure as bishop and archbishop.

• Max Gleason [08:14]: Discusses Prevost’s controversial comments on LGBTQ issues from 2012, where he criticized “gender ideology,” hinting at potential challenges Leo XIV might face in addressing modern social issues within the Church.

E. Political Implications and Global Stance

The new pope’s relationship with global politics, particularly with the United States and China, is explored.

• Max Gleason [08:29]: Suggests that Leo XIV, aligned with Pope Francis, might confront the Trump administration on issues like migration and conflicts in Gaza, indicating a papacy that could take strong stances on global humanitarian issues.

• Max Gleason [09:04]: Emphasizes the significance of an American pope in a traditionally non-American global religion, noting that Leo XIV’s extensive international experience brings a truly global perspective to the papacy.

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2. High-Stakes US-China Trade Negotiations

A. Background of the Trade Dispute

The podcast transitions to the ongoing trade tensions between the United States and China, with negotiators meeting in Switzerland for their first high-level talks since President Trump returned to office.

• Layla Falden [10:06]: Outlines the severe tariffs currently imposed: Chinese goods face up to 245% taxes, while American goods entering China are taxed around 125%.

B. Dynamics of the Current Negotiations

NPR’s Emily Fang and Jason DeRose provide an in-depth analysis of the negotiation dynamics.

• Jason DeRose [10:30]: Highlights the increased stakes compared to Trump’s first term, noting that both nations are less willing to make concessions. China maintains a defiant stance, with the Commerce Ministry declaring it will “fight to the end” and reject any “coercion or blackmail.”

• Jason DeRose [12:03]: Comments on China's confidence due to their preparation for economic standoffs, including shoring up supply chains and implementing monetary changes to mitigate the impact of tariffs.

C. Key Issues and Demands

The primary points of contention revolve around tariffs and technology exports.

• Jason DeRose [12:03]: Points out China’s main demand: the rollback of US export controls on semiconductor chips and chip-making equipment, which are crucial for advancing their domestic AI capabilities.

• Max Gleason [07:02]: Reflects on the instrumental use of tariffs by the US to pressure China on various fronts, including fentanyl trafficking and demand for increased US purchases.

D. Prospects for Resolution

The likelihood of reaching a substantial agreement in the upcoming talks appears slim.

• Jason DeRose [10:35]: Observes that neither side is willing to make the first move, and the high tariffs in place create a challenging environment for negotiation.

• Jason DeRose [12:29]: Notes that while China feels confident, the tariffs are already impacting their economy. Additionally, China is actively seeking to promote a global free trade regime independent of US influence, signaling a strategic pivot in their trade policy.

E. Implications for Global Trade and Technology

The outcome of these negotiations will have significant ramifications for global trade dynamics and technological advancement.

• Jason DeRose [12:08]: Emphasizes that the US is unlikely to concede on export controls critical for AI development, underscoring the technological race at the heart of the trade dispute.

• Max Gleason [13:05]: Highlights China’s strategic positioning to support and perpetuate the existing global trade regime, challenging the US’s traditional dominance in this arena.

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3. Upcoming Story: The Backstory of Sean Combs

The episode concludes with a teaser for an upcoming feature on Sean Combs, who is currently on trial for sex crimes. The Sunday Story will explore why allegations against the music star and record executive surfaced only recently.

• Ruth Sherlock [13:43]: Notes the “culture of fear and silence” that allowed Combs to maintain his public image for decades, setting the stage for an in-depth investigative piece.

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Conclusion

This episode of Up First provides comprehensive coverage of two significant global events: the unprecedented election of an American pope with potential wide-reaching implications for the Catholic Church and international relations, and the intense US-China trade negotiations that could reshape global economic landscapes. With detailed reporting and expert analysis, NPR ensures listeners are well-informed on these critical issues shaping our world.

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For more detailed analyses and additional stories, subscribe to NPR's Up First and support your local NPR station at donate.npr.org.

Transcript

[Layla Falden]

What was it like to be at the Vatican when a cleric made this announcement?

[Steve Inskeep]

We have a pope, he said American Robert Prevost is now Leo xiv. And we'll hear from Ruth Sherlock, who was there.

[Layla Falden]

I'm Layla Falden. That's Steve Inskeep. And this is up first from NPR News. How does the pope from Chicago look to American political partisans? We'll hear some of his stances so far.

[Steve Inskeep]

Also, negotiators from the US And China will meet over the weekend. The US Hopes to ease the terms of its own trade war, while China wants fewer restrictions on American tech export.

[Emily Fang]

Controls on chips in particular and then chip making equipment. So things that would allow them to accelerate the domestic development of AI.

[Steve Inskeep]

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[Layla Falden]

Your first month, the Catholic Church followed each step of a ritual that's centuries old. White smoke poured from a chimney. Then a cleric appeared on a balcony to say these words in Latin.

[Steve Inskeep]

Abemus papam. We have a pope, thanks to my high school Latin teacher. Moments later, as we heard live on npr, the cleric gave the name Robert Francis Prevost and it became apparent that it was a Pope.

[Layla Falden]

From Chicago, NPR's Rome correspondent Ruth Sherlock was there watching it all unfold in Vatican City. Hi, Ruth. Hi, Saruth. You got to watch this history being made.

[Ruth Sherlock]

Tell us what it was like, well, you know, in those moments leading up to the white smoke, there were just people in prayer all over the square in their own languages. I heard Italian, French, Bengali. Sister Mary Agnes Maruga, a nun from Poland, gave this great description of what it was like waiting outside the Sistine Chapel while the cardinals were inside.

[Jason DeRose]

It's just exciting to be in the very place when they are, you know, behind the wall, they are electing and we are on the other side praying for them.

[Ruth Sherlock]

And then the white smoke just started billowing out of the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, meaning that new pope had been chosen. There were marching bands and chants of Viva il Papa. Long live the Pope. And then it was announced. Robert Prevost, an American cardinal's Pope. You know, the reaction where I was was actually initially one of confusion. Lots of people hadn't heard through the tinny speakers. People were frantically trying to check their phones, but there was no phone data. But gradually the name Prevost kind of spread through the crowd. And then he appeared on the loggia of the basilica.

[Layla Falden]

His first public appearance as Pope Leo xiv. What was his message?

[Ruth Sherlock]

His first words were peace be with you all. And you know, Leila. His speech had echoes of the papacy, of his predecessor Francis, for its global message. He sent, well, wishes of peace, to quote all of the people all over the earth. He gave a special greeting to the diocese of Chiclayo in Peru, where he lived for many years, where he was a bishop. And he recited the Hail Mary prayer with thousands of people joining him from the square.

[Layla Falden]

And what was the reaction once people finally got the news and saw the new Pope and were starting to get a sense of who he is? How are they reacting to him?

[Ruth Sherlock]

Well, the reaction was actually very mixed where I was standing. There was some, some disappointment, particularly among Italians. You know, there have been many Italian popes before and they were hoping that one of the Italian cardinals would be chosen. Among Americans, though, as you can imagine, there was shock. There absolutely isn't a precedent for previous popes. Leo XIV is the first Pope from the United States, as we said, and there was jubilation. Here's Max gleason. He's a 21 year old American college student studying in Rome. I can't say for sure, but just seeing this few minutes of him up there and the emotions that he brought.

[Max Gleason]

He just looks like someone who's gonna crush it.

[Ruth Sherlock]

So lots of optimism about what this pope, you know, might be able to achieve. Lots of expectations. It's a very difficult time in the world and Pope Francis spoke repeatedly about human suffering in conflict, about poverty, and many people hoping he'll continue that legacy.

[Layla Falden]

NPR's Ruth Sherlock. Thank you, Ruth.

[Ruth Sherlock]

Thanks so much, Leila.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose, along with Ruth, was part of our live coverage yesterday as the name was revealed. And he's been looking into the life of the pope from Chicago. Hi there, Jason.

[Max Gleason]

Hello.

[Steve Inskeep]

What do you know about Leo?

[Max Gleason]

Well, Pope Leo is 69 years old, which makes him a bit on the younger side for popes. He's got quite some time left in him. He was an undergraduate at Villanova University in Pennsylvania, where he majored in mathematics. Like Pope Francis, he's a member of a religious order, in Prevost's case, the Augustinians, who focus on missionary work and education. Prevost Now, Pope Leo went to seminary at the Catholic Theological Union in Chicago, and he did his doctorate here in Rome. He spent significant parts of his ministry in Peru. During his greeting from the balcony overlooking St Peter's Square yesterday, though, he spoke in both Italian and Spanish, but did not significantly, I think, speak in English. And he served on the Pontifical Commission on Latin America, a place he knows well. Given his time in Peru.

[Steve Inskeep]

What sense do you have at this early moment about what style of pope he might be?

[Max Gleason]

Well, here's what Cardinal Prevost told the Vatican's official news agency prior to his election as pope about what he thinks church leadership should be.

[Steve Inskeep]

The bishop is not supposed to be a little prince sitting in his kingdom, but rather called authentically to to be humble, to be close to the people he serves, to walk with them, to suffer with them, and to look for ways that he can better live the gospel message in the midst of his people.

[Max Gleason]

And, Steve, that's very similar to what Pope Francis was fond of saying, that a pastor who's a shepherd should smell like his sheep.

[Steve Inskeep]

I've noticed that already there are some criticisms of Pope Leo.

[Max Gleason]

That's right. Survivors of clergy sexual abuse say Cardinal Prevost did not do enough to address the issue as a bishop or archbishop or cardinal. But, Steve, that's true of many in church leadership. Now, the question is how he'll respond to victims going forward and how he handles abusive priests and those who covered up for them. He's also come under criticism for comments on LGBTQ people. Back in 2012. He lamented what he called the culture's sympathy with the homosexual lifestyle. And he spoke out against a government plan in Peru to teach about gender in public schools. He called promotion of, quote, gender ideology confusing and said Such thinking creates genders that don't exist.

[Steve Inskeep]

I noticed that there are some hardcore supporters of President Trump who seem to assume that he is going to be opposed to President Trump. They're applying that blue red filter of the United States onto the pontiff. What are his politics to the extent that they're known?

[Max Gleason]

Well, I think that he was a close ally with Pope Francis and as such will probably be willing to stand up to the Trump administration in the same way that the Vatican has for the last dozen years, talking out against the treatment of migrants, talking out against the treatment of people in Gaza and the way the war is being conducted there. So could be somebody who's willing to go head to head and a very prominent American figure willing to go head to head with another prominent American figure, the American president.

[Steve Inskeep]

Absolutely. Isn't it surprising that it would be an American pope?

[Max Gleason]

Well, I think it's stunning. Prevost's name had come up, of course, because of his position there in the Vatican. He's considered well qualified given his pastoral and administrative experience. But the US Is not the center of the Catholic world. And Vatican watchers said the US has enough global power already. And the church, you know, Steve, is far more vibrant in other places, places where it's growing, like in Latin America and Africa and Asia. You know, Pope Francis, in fact, dramatically diversified the College of Cardinals during his papacy to reflect that many more cardinals from other parts of the world, but ones who chose an American. It is important to note that while Pope Leo is from the United States, he spent much of his life and ministry outside of the US In Peru and at the Vatican. So he does bring a truly global perspective to the job.

[Steve Inskeep]

Jason, thanks for your perspective.

[Max Gleason]

You're welcome.

[Steve Inskeep]

That's NPR religion correspondent Jason DeRose. Trade negotiators from the US and China talked this weekend in Switzerland.

[Layla Falden]

These are their first high level face to face trade talks since President Trump returned to the White House. Goods from China now face a tax of up to 245%. The President's 145 is on top of some older tariffs. American goods going to China face taxes around 125%.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's Emily Fang has been covering this. Hi there, Emily.

[Jason DeRose]

Good morning, Steve.

[Steve Inskeep]

How does the meeting in Switzerland compare with trade talks in Trump's first term?

[Jason DeRose]

Right. I feel like we've been here before, but the stakes this time are much higher. The rates as you just laid out, are much higher. And what's interesting is China has taken a much more defiant position this time around regarding trade Neither country seemed willing to make the first move this time around. The levies in the last couple weeks kept climbing. China reached a point where its foreign Ministry said it would, quote, fight to the end. And going into the talks just now, its Commerce Ministry said it was not going to accept any, quote, coercion or blackmail.

[Steve Inskeep]

Wow. Doesn't sound like this meeting is likely to produce much of an agreement.

[Jason DeRose]

No. And Scott Besant, the US treasury secretary who is going to these talks, said as much this week. But it could be a chance for both countries to de escalate and cool off. China, for example, says it wants to see, quote, sincerity, as in having the US Drop its tariffs ahead of the meeting, which is something that the White House has outright said is not going to happen. Another big challenge is these two countries have very different negotiating styles and it's not clear to the Chinese what the US Want, you know, what the end goals of these tariffs are. Trump has said they're to punish China for not doing enough to stop fentanyl trafficking. But he's also said he wants to use these tariffs to make China buy more from the US as for what China might ask for this weekend, I asked Mary Lovely, who monitors trade policy at the nonpartisan economics think tank the Peterson Institute in Washington. She told me their number one ask is rollback on US Export controls on semiconductor chips.

[Emily Fang]

Export controls on, yeah, on chips in particular and in chip making equipment.

[Jason DeRose]

So things that would allow them to accelerate the domestic development of AI and artificial intelligence. But this is not something the US Is likely going to want to do.

[Steve Inskeep]

Emily, the Trump administration talks as if they've got the upper hand here, that they've got the cards. How strong does China think its position may be?

[Jason DeRose]

They feel pretty confident. But tariffs are also hurting China. You know, it's been only a few weeks. At the same time, though, Beijing has been preparing for just such an economic standoff with the US for years. They've been shoring up their supply chains. This week, they just announced monetary changes to cushion themselves economically a bit from, among other things, tariffs. Denny McMahon is head of research at Trivium, which is a group that advises businesses on China. He's been monitoring China's diplomacy, you know, their efforts to strike trade deals of their own, basically without the US by saying China is the stronger proponent of a global free trade regime.

[Max Gleason]

So it feels like it's on strong ground, kind of going out to the rest of the world and saying, hey, I'm all in favor of supporting and perpetuating the existing regime. Who else is with me.

[Jason DeRose]

This used to be the US's calling card, but now China is using the same rhetoric.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's Emily Fang, thanks so much.

[Jason DeRose]

Thanks.

[Steve Inskeep]

And here's one more story which we have for you this weekend, the backstory of Sean Combs, who was on trial accused of sex crimes this weekend. On the Sunday Story from Up first, why did it take so long for the allegations to catch up with a music star and record executive?

[Ruth Sherlock]

There's a culture of fear and silence that really surrounded Combs for decades, and it's what allowed him to maintain control of his public image.

[Steve Inskeep]

That's on the NEXT Sunday STORY from Up First. And that's up first for this Friday. It's Friday, May 9th. I'm Steve Inskeep.

[Layla Falden]

And I'm Layla Falden. Just a reminder, Up First, Up First.

[Steve Inskeep]

Up First, Up First, It's a Scottish program.

[Emily Fang]

Go on.

[Layla Falden]

Just a reminder. Up first airs on Saturdays, too, but Stephen and I will not be here. Aisha Roscoe and Scott Simon will have the news. Look for it wherever you get your podcast.

[Steve Inskeep]

Today's episode of up first was edited by Daniel Burke, Ryland Barton Padmendarama, Janaya Williams and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Katie Klein, Mia Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hyness, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Our executive producer is Jay Shaler. Have a great weekend.

[Emily Fang]

This message comes from Warby Parker. What makes a great pair of glasses at Warby Parker? It's all the invisible extras without the extra cost, like free adjustments for life. Find your [e-mail] or visit one of their hundreds of stores around the country. This message comes from Mint Mobile. Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right. They offer premium wireless plans for less and all plans include high speed data, unlimited talk and text and nationwide coverage. See for [e-mail] Switch this message comes from Bombas. Socks, underwear and T shirts are the top three requested clothing items by people experiencing homelessness. Bombas makes all three and donates one item for every item purchased. Go to bombas.com NPR and use code NPR for 20% off.