Supreme Court Blocks Deportations; Imprisonment in El Salvador; US-Iran Nuclear Talks

Summary

NPR’s Up First: April 19, 2025

In this episode of NPR’s Up First, hosts Scott Simon and Ayesha Rascoe delve into three critical stories shaping the geopolitical and domestic landscape of the United States: the Supreme Court’s temporary block on deportations of Venezuelan migrants, President Trump’s controversial proposal to incarcerate U.S. citizens in El Salvador, and the ongoing nuclear negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. Below is a comprehensive summary of the episode’s key discussions, insights, and conclusions.

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1. Supreme Court Temporarily Blocks Deportations of Venezuelan Migrants

Overview: The episode opens with a significant Supreme Court decision that halts the Trump administration’s efforts to deport a group of Venezuelan migrants. These individuals were detained under the Alien Enemies Act, a rarely invoked wartime statute.

Key Points:

• Supreme Court Ruling:

  • The Supreme Court issued a brief order after midnight Eastern time, directing the government to cease deportations of certain Venezuelan migrants until further notice. This group was held at the Blue Bonnet facility in Texas.
  • Jimena Bastillo, NPR’s correspondent, explains that Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented from this decision, highlighting internal disagreements within the Court.

• Use of the Alien Enemies Act:

  • The Trump administration invoked the Alien Enemies Act to classify and deport migrants, a measure traditionally reserved for times of active war.
  • Previously, under this act during World War II, immigrants were given due process to contest their deportation, a provision the administration failed to uphold this time.
  • The ACLU filed emergency appeals, arguing that the administration did not provide adequate notice or the opportunity for migrants to challenge their removal.

• Legal Challenges and ACLU’s Role:

  • The ACLU highlighted that migrants received minimal notice to contest deportations, often less than a day, rendering due process effectively nonexistent.
  • Lee Gillard of the ACLU criticized the administration’s expedited removal process: “[The government] has now given them no notice, given them forms in English, but that's not enough to explain how to contest their removal.”

• Government’s Defense:

  • The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) maintains that the deportations comply with Supreme Court guidelines, despite legal challenges in various district courts.
  • The ACLU alleges that deportations are strategically being conducted in jurisdictions where courts have not yet blocked such actions, a claim the government denies.

Notable Quote:

“The Alien Enemies Act is a rarely used presidential power that Trump invoked last month...Immigrant rights groups originally sued the administration over the use of the act when over 100 people were put on flights and sent to El Salvador where they're now in a mega prison.”
— Jimena Bastillo [02:27]

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2. President Trump’s Proposal to Incarcerate U.S. Citizens in El Salvador

Overview: President Trump has proposed sending U.S. citizens convicted of crimes to prisons in El Salvador, a move that has raised significant legal and human rights concerns.

Key Points:

• Proposal Details:

  • Trump is exploring the option of incarcerating U.S. citizens convicted of crimes in Central American countries, specifically El Salvador.
  • This proposal follows the administration’s previous deportation of over 250 migrants to El Salvador under the Alien Enemies Act.

• Conditions in El Salvadorian Prisons:

  • The inmates sent to El Salvador are held in the notorious SEACOT prison, known for human rights violations, including torture and medical neglect.
  • Meg Anderson, NPR’s criminal justice reporter, emphasizes the dire conditions: “Human rights groups have reported torture and medical neglect in that prison and other Salvadoran prisons...Inmates are often denied due process and even contact with family and lawyers.”

• Legal Implications:

  • Legal experts argue that there is no U.S. legislation empowering the President to extradite or incarcerate U.S. citizens in foreign nations.
  • Lauren Brook Eisen from the Brennan Center for Justice states, “There is absolutely no U.S. law that would give Trump the ability to send U.S. citizens to foreign prisons.”
  • Once U.S. citizens are abroad, enforcing constitutional rights becomes exceedingly complex, potentially stripping individuals of protections against cruel and unusual punishment.

• Government’s Stance:

  • The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) claims that the migrants sent to El Salvador are terrorists with final deportation orders and that due process was followed.
  • However, Meg Anderson notes the lack of evidence provided by the DHS to substantiate these claims: “She did not provide any evidence for those assertions.”

Notable Quote:

“For me, it would be an absolutely Kafkaesque situation where the family has no idea where the person is, what kind of conditions they're being held in, whether they're even alive.”
— Michelle Deitch, Director of the Prison and Jail Innovation Lab at the University of Texas at Austin [07:17]

Conclusion: The proposal to imprison U.S. citizens in El Salvador has been met with widespread condemnation from legal experts and human rights organizations. The lack of legal framework and the deplorable conditions in Salvadoran prisons pose severe risks to the rights and safety of U.S. nationals.

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3. U.S.-Iran Nuclear Talks in Rome: Prospects and Challenges

Overview: The third major story covers the renewed nuclear negotiations between the United States and Iran, taking place in Rome. This marks the second round of talks since Trump’s administration exited the previous nuclear agreement.

Key Points:

• Background of Negotiations:

  • The U.S. and Iran convened a second meeting in Rome following initial talks in Oman, which were deemed largely procedural.
  • Jackie Northam, NPR’s international affairs correspondent, provides context on the strategic positions of both nations.

• Trump’s Negotiation Tactics:

  • President Trump aims to ensure Iran never develops nuclear weapons, asserting that reaching a deal will be “easy” and expecting substantial concessions from Iran.
  • However, Jackie Northam points out Trump’s fluctuating statements, which may hinder the negotiation process: “He first said that Iran could enrich uranium to low grade level to produce energy. Then he turned around and said Iran must stop and eliminate its nuclear enrichment.”

• Geopolitical Tensions:

  • Recent military engagements between Iran and its proxies, such as Hezbollah and Hamas, have strained relations.
  • Ongoing U.S. strikes against Houthi targets in Yemen and the recent missile exchanges have placed Iran at a diplomatic disadvantage.

• Potential for Israeli Military Action:

  • Reports suggest that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had proposed a military strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities, which Trump reportedly declined, opting instead for negotiations.
  • Jackie Northam mentions, “There’s a 50-50 chance Israel will hit Iran and that likelihood increases the longer negotiations are drawn out.”

• Iran’s Position:

  • Given Iran’s weakened state due to continuous conflicts, experts believe Iran may prolong negotiations without making significant concessions.
  • Iran maintains its right to enrich uranium for civilian purposes, a non-starter for the U.S. demands of complete cessation of nuclear enrichment.

Notable Quote:

“Since his start of the Gaza war 18 months ago, Israel has decimated Iran's main proxies, Hezbollah and Hamas, and it took out key Iranian air defenses when the two countries traded missile fire last year for the first time ever.”
— Jackie Northam [11:54]

Conclusion: The U.S.-Iran nuclear talks are at a precarious stage, with mutual suspicions and strategic interests complicating the path to a comprehensive agreement. The potential for military intervention remains a significant risk factor that underscores the precarious balance in Middle Eastern geopolitics.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Up First delivered in-depth analyses of pressing issues affecting both domestic and international spheres. From judicial interventions in immigration policies and controversial incarceration proposals to high-stakes international diplomacy, the discussions underscore the complex interplay of law, human rights, and global politics in contemporary America.

Listeners are encouraged to stay informed and engaged with these unfolding stories, as they hold significant implications for national security, human rights, and international relations.

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For more detailed reporting and ongoing updates on these stories, subscribe to NPR’s Up First and support local NPR stations at donate.npr.org.

Transcript

[Ayesha Rascoe]

The Supreme Court has temporarily blocked the Trump administration from deporting a group of Venezuelans.

[Scott Simon]

The administration accuses the men of being gang members. I'm Scott Simon.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

I'm Ayesha Rascoe. And this is up first from NPR News.

[Scott Simon]

The overnight Supreme Court ruling came as the Trump administration was preparing to deport the men being held in Texas under a rarely used wartime act. We'll have the latest this week.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

President Trump also raised the possibility of sending US Citizens convicted of crimes to prison in El Salvador. But does he have the authority to follow through?

[Scott Simon]

And the US And Iran are today holding a second round of talks to discuss Tehran's nuclear program.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

So stay with us. We have the news you need to start your weekend.

[Unknown]

Support comes from our 2025 lead sponsor of UpFirst. Amazon Business. Every business starts with an idea. How can you go from daydreamer to industry leader? Amazon Business accelerates your journey with smart business buying. Get everything you need to grow in one familiar place, from office supplies to IT essentials and maintenance tools. Amazon Business takes the familiar Amazon buying experience and adds tools that help you save costs and make insights based decisions ready to bring your visions to life? Learn [e-mail] this message comes from the Nature Conservancy. Working together to create a future with a livable climate, healthy communities and thriving nature. Explore ways to act on Earth Day and every [e-mail] NPR this message comes from BetterHelp.

[Meg Anderson]

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[Scott Simon]

That's betterhelp.com NPR the Supreme Court's late night order to stop the deportation of the Venezuelan men followed an emergency appeal from the American Civil Liberties Union.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

The court took issue with the Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act.

[Scott Simon]

We're joined now by NPR's Jimena Bastillo. Jimena, thanks for being with us.

[Jimena Bastillo]

Good morning.

[Scott Simon]

What's the order say?

[Jimena Bastillo]

Well, in a brief order issued after midnight Eastern time, justices wrote that the government is directed to not remove any member of the, quote, putative class of detainees from the United States until further order from the court. These would be some of the Venezuelan migrants being held at the Blue Bonnet facility in Texas. Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito dissented.

[Scott Simon]

And what spurred this order?

[Jimena Bastillo]

Well, earlier, the Supreme Court had decided that the administration could continue deporting under the act. This was a few weeks ago, but only if detainees were given due process to challenge their removal under the Alien Enemies Act. The American Civil Liberties Union Friday afternoon filed multiple documents in court that showed immigration authorities were moving quickly to restart removals under the Alien Enemies act despite despite the previous Supreme Court's request for that due process. Here's Lee Gillard, one of the lawyers from the ACLU who spoke with my colleague Jasmine Garz. The government has now given them no.

[Scott Simon]

Notice, given them forms in English. That doesn't explain to them how to contest their removal.

[Jimena Bastillo]

He said people got less than a day to contest their removal. So the ACLU filed for a request to have the courts pause the deportations. At the D.C. district Court, Judge James Boseberg denied that request because he said he did not believe he had jurisdiction. That prompted the immediate appeal from the ACLU and then the later decision from the Supreme Court.

[Scott Simon]

And Amanda, please remind us what the Supreme Court said when the issue was first brought to them.

[Jimena Bastillo]

The Alien Enemies act is a rarely used presidential power that Trump invoked last month. Right. And it has only been previously used in times of active war, the last time being World War II. Immigrant rights groups originally sued the administration over the use of the act when over 100 people were put on flights and sent to El Salvador where their now in a mega prison. Lawyers say that this resulted in mass confusion. Attorneys, even those on behalf of the government, arrived at hearings where clients were missing. And then family members learned that their loved ones were sent to El Salvador and that prison specifically because of social media posts from both the US Government and the Salvadoran government. The Trump administration alleges that all people they flew there are members of the Venezuelan gang trend under the Alien Enemies Act. But the lawyers say that many, many are not and they never got the opportunity to fight the deportations and allegations in court during a previous use of the act. Lawyers argue that those being removed during World War II still had hearing boards to make their cases.

[Scott Simon]

How does the government's latest attempt to remove people using that Alien Enemies act line up with what the Supreme Court had previously ordered?

[Jimena Bastillo]

The Justice Department argued that notices comply with previous Supreme Court's guidance on the issue. And I reached out to the Homeland Security Department last night and they declined to comment on counterterrorism operations. But they did say that they believe they are complying with the Supreme Court's original ruling. Still, the ACLU argues that they're not they have since been suing the administration in each individual district court since that first ruling. And judges in several districts have blocked the deportations of people using the Alien Enemies Act. The ACLU alleges that in recent days, many Venezuelan migrants were specifically brought to that Blue Bonnet facility because it is a facility in a court district where deportations have not yet been blocked. The government, government denies that this is their strategy.

[Scott Simon]

Jimenez, thanks so much.

[Jimena Bastillo]

Thank you.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

The Trump administration has already deported more than 250 migrants to El Salvador. But now President Trump says he's exploring options to have US Citizens who are convicted of crimes incarcerated in the Central American country.

[Scott Simon]

That suggestion has been condemned by legal experts as akin to dropping citizens into a black box. NPR's criminal justice reporter Meg Anderson joins us. Meg, thanks for being with us.

[Meg Anderson]

Thank you for having me.

[Scott Simon]

We know that hundreds of immigrants have already been sent to El Salvador. What kind of conditions do they face there?

[Meg Anderson]

Yeah. So the mega prison that they were sent to is known as seacot, and it is notorious. Human rights groups have reported torture and medical neglect in that prison and other Salvadoran prisons and say inmates are often denied due process and even contact with family and lawyers. Michelle Deitch, director of the Prison and Jail Innovation Lab at the University of Texas at Austin, put that situation in perspective. For me, it would be an absolutely.

[Jackie Northam]

Kafkaesque situation where the family has no.

[Meg Anderson]

Idea where the person is, what kind.

[Jackie Northam]

Of conditions they're being held in, whether they're even alive.

[Meg Anderson]

And I should mention US Courts have said that the people taken to El Salvador got limited or no due process before they were sent there, something they are legally entitled to. And now that they're in El Salvador, the administration is saying they no longer have control over what happens to them.

[Scott Simon]

And what does that mean for those people?

[Meg Anderson]

Well, it means that they're being deprived of protections that they would have had if they had been held in the United States. The government here has a duty by law to care for people in its custody. U.S. prisons and immigration detention centers are far from perfect, to be sure, but there are still layers of oversight. The federal government monitors and inspects its prisons and detention centers. People in custody have the right to pursue legal action if they allege abuse or neglect. And judges can intervene when laws are violated. Legal experts I spoke to said it's extremely hard, if not impossible, to see how any of that could happen once people are in a Salvadoran prison.

[Scott Simon]

And, Meg, we also know that President Trump and Attorney General Bondi are exploring the idea of sending what they call homegrown criminals abroad, would their situation be any different?

[Meg Anderson]

So the Trump administration has clarified that, quote, homegrowns in this case means US Citizens. And I should note that legal experts say there is absolutely no U.S. law that would give Trump the ability to send U.S. citizens to foreign prisons. But if someone in the U.S. is convicted of a crime, their constitutional rights, like the right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment, should, in theory still apply no matter where they're sent. That's according to Lauren Brook Eisen. She's the senior director at the Brennan center for Justice.

[Jimena Bastillo]

But she says the worry is that once someone is sent outside of the jurisdiction of the United States, it becomes much more difficult to protect and enforce their constitutional rights.

[Scott Simon]

And what does the federal government say about all this?

[Meg Anderson]

So I reached out to both the Justice Department and the Department of Homeland Security for this story. In a statement, DHS assistant secretary Tricia McLaughlin said the immigrants sent to El Salvador are, quote, terrorists, that they had final deportation orders and that there was due process. But she did not provide any evidence for those assertions. The doj, for its part, did not respond to questions about outsourcing U.S. prisoners abroad.

[Scott Simon]

NPR's Meg Anderson, thanks so much.

[Meg Anderson]

You're welcome.

[Scott Simon]

The U.S. and Iran are holding a fresh round of nuclear talks in Rome today.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

President Trump says the goal is to prevent Iran from ever having a nuclear weapon. And he insists that reaching a deal will be, quote, easy. So will it.

[Scott Simon]

Joined now by NPR's international affairs correspondent, Jackie Northam. Jackie, thanks for being with us.

[Jackie Northam]

Good morning, Scott.

[Scott Simon]

And what's the latest?

[Jackie Northam]

Well, as you said, this is the second meeting between the US And Iran. Last week, the two sides met in Oman for what was considered a groundbreaking meeting. In some ways, it's been years since the two sides had held direct talks, but essentially that one was a formality really to get the ball rolling. Today, Trump's Middle east envoy Steve Witkoff sits down with Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Arachi to get more more to the meat of the issue. But you know, over the past few days, Wyckoff has been putting out seemingly contradictory statements. He first said that Iran could enrich uranium to low grade level to produce energy. Then he turned around and said Iran must stop and eliminate its nuclear enrichment. And you know that that would be a non starter for Iran, which insists on its right to enrich uranium for civilian use. You know, in his first term in 2018, Trump pulled the US out of a previous nuclear accord negotiated by President Obama and it's known as the jcpo. And it prevented Iran from producing highly enriched uranium, which can be used to make bombs in return for an easing of sanctions. And Trump called it the worst deal in history. So he'll presumably be hoping to squeeze more concessions out of Iran this time.

[Scott Simon]

These talks come after President Trump appeared to confirm a report the New York Times that he'd held off a potential Israeli military strike against Iran's nuclear installations. How's that played into this round of talks?

[Jackie Northam]

Well, Trump said Thursday that he still supports a negotiated deal with Iran over his nuclear program. But he also noted that failure to reach an agreement would be, in his words, very bad for Iran. And, you know, that came when he was asked about a report that claimed he had waved off an Israeli plan to bomb Iran's nuclear facilities. This is what he said.

[Scott Simon]

I wouldn't say waved off. I'm not in a rush to do it because I think that Iran has.

[Unknown]

A chance to have a great country.

[Scott Simon]

And to live happily without death.

[Jackie Northam]

And, you know, according to that report, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had laid out the plan to attack Iran's nuclear facilities when he visited the White House recently. And that was when Trump publicly announced that his envoy would be holding direct talks with Iran for the first time in more than a decade. And NPR has not been able to independently verify that reporting.

[Scott Simon]

I have to add, what does Iran hope to get out of these talks?

[Jackie Northam]

Well, basically, Iran is not in a position of strength right now. Since his start of the Gaza war 18 months ago, Israel has decimated Iran's main proxies, Hezbollah and Hamas, and it took out key Iranian air defenses when the two countries traded missile fire last year for the first time ever. And since Trump has returned to office, the US has been carrying out frequent strikes on the Houthis, which are also aligned with Iran. And the Houthi leadership said that more than 70 people were killed in a US airstrike on a port in Yemen earlier this week. Analysts I've spoken to expect Iran to try to drag out these talks for as long as possible without making any real concessions, since they are negotiating from a position of weakness. But President Trump has made clear the clock is ticking. And one source familiar with the ongoing situation with Iran and Israel, who wanted to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to talk to the media, he tells my colleague Tom Bowman that there's a 5050 chance Israel will hit Iran and that that likelihood increases the longer negotiations are drawn out.

[Scott Simon]

NPR's Jackie Northam, thanks so much for being with us.

[Jackie Northam]

Thank you, Scott.

[Scott Simon]

And that's up first for Saturday, April 19th, 2025. I'm Scott Simon.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

And I'm Ayesha Rascoe.

[Scott Simon]

Hold up, hold up. Wait, wait, if you please. We got one more thing for you. Today here at up first, we take Keeping you informed series.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Meanwhile, our friends at NPR's Wait, Wait, don't tell me. Take making fun of the news very seriously. Each week, they create a news quiz, and we want to give up first listeners the chance to play along.

[Scott Simon]

Test your knowledge of the week's news against the show's panelists by listening every weekend. Here's this week's Lightning Fill in the blank news quiz.

[Unknown]

Now it's time for our final game, Lightning Fill in the blank. Each of our players will have 60 seconds in which to answer as many fill in the blank questions as they can. Each quick dancer now worth two points. Bill, can you give us the scores? Adam has one, Alonso has two, Dulce has four. Dulce, you're clearly in the lead. Alonzo is in second, and Adam is in third place. So, Adam, we start with you. Here we go. Fill in the blank. On Wednesday, a federal judge threatened to open a contempt inquiry against the blank Trump administration. Exactly. On Tuesday, researchers in Texas said funding cuts have slowed that state's response to the blank outbreak.

[Scott Simon]

Measles.

[Unknown]

Right. On Thursday, the Supreme Court said they'd hear arguments on Trump's plan to end birthright blank citizenship. Right. On Monday, the FAA announced plans to test a new system made to detect unregistered blanks. Um, drones. Right. This week, authorities in Kenya caught two teens trying to smuggle blank out of the country. Four giraffes? No. 5,000 ants. On Thursday, NASA confirmed that the James Webb Telescope has detected a possible sign of blank on a distant planet.

[Scott Simon]

Life.

[Unknown]

Right. On Wednesday, a judge dismissed a lawsuit against the New Orleans blanks for their use of a fleur de lis.

[Scott Simon]

Saints.

[Unknown]

Yeah, the saints. After his wife explained that money was tight and they couldn't afford their annual family holiday, a man in the UK came up with an ingenious solution and blanked.

[Scott Simon]

I took him on the vacation he had when he was a kid.

[Unknown]

No, he booked the vacation anyway with the kids, but not his wife. His wife said that this extensive house renovation they had just done meant they wouldn't have the money to all go on vacation. The husband said, I guess you're right. Went ahead and booked one for him and the kids and not her. It's a really smart financial decision because from now on, he'll never have to worry about going on vacation with his wife ever again or even living with her. Bill, how did Adam do with our quiz? I think he did right. He's way out in front. Six. Right. 12 more points. Total of 13 in the league. All right, Alonzo, you are up next. Fill in the Blank. On Wednesday, the White House confirmed tariffs of up to 245% on some products from Blank China. Right. On Tuesday, Blank gave his first public remarks since leaving office. Biden. Right. This week, officials in Puerto Rico said the cause of an island wide Blank is still unique black op. Right. On Tuesday, two attendees at Blank's town hall were tased with stun guns. Marjorie Taylor Greene. That's right. According to new data, millions of people in Sweden are currently glued to their TVs watching blank hockey. Watching 24 hour live coverage of this year's moose migration. On Tuesday, director Chris Columbus said he wishes he could remove Blank's cameo from home alone too. Trump. Right. This week, a woman went viral because she refused to take off a Zoom filter that made her face look like a plate of breakfast during a meeting. Well, specifically, she refused to stop using that filter that made her face look like a plate of breakfast during a job interview. Doing it over Zoom, she left the breakfast filter on entirely. Her eyes superimposed over fried eggs, her mouth on a slice of toast. She explained to the somewhat confused interviewer that she was, quote, not feeling well today and using the filter to help. That's one way to be memorable. She was not. That's how you get a job at Waffle House. Yeah. Bill, how did Alonso do in our quiz? Well, he's making it a very close race. Five rights, 10 more points. But his 12 is one short of Adam. All right, well, how many then does Dulce need to win? The five to win. Here we go. Dulce, this is for the game. They're on your side. Here we go. On Tuesday, Mark Zuckerberg took the stand at an antitrust trial to defend his company, Blank Facebook. Yeah, Meta. But Facebook as well. According to a new study, blanking faster could reduce risk of abnormal heart rhythms. Breathing faster, walking faster. This week, an election debate in Canada was delayed two hours so that it did interrupt Blank hockey. Right. On Monday, the Vatican announced they were putting architect Anthony Gaudi on the path to Blank hood sainthood. Right. This week, Twinkies announced that they were now shifting their marketing away from families and towards Blank.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

Single men.

[Unknown]

No, stoners. Single men. Twinkies is embracing its dad destiny and going right for the stoners. They announce the creation of the munchy Mobile, which will tour the country's dispensaries and hand out free snacks to the customers there. It's like the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile if the Wienermobile kept forgetting to pick its little brother up from middle school. Bill did Dulce do well enough to win? She got four right? Eight more points. 12. That means she one behind the Irishman who wins. Wow. Adam Burke, There you go.

[Ayesha Rascoe]

See how closely you follow the week's news and have some fun by listening to Wait, wait, Don't tell Me. The NPR News quiz every Saturday. It's available in the NPR app and wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

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