Syrian Minorities Fear Retribution, Israel-Hamas Talks, ABC Settles Trump Lawsuit

Summary

Up First from NPR - December 16, 2024

Hosts: Leila Fadel, Steve Inskeep, Michel Martin, and A Martinez
Episode Title: Syrian Minorities Fear Retribution, Israel-Hamas Talks, ABC Settles Trump Lawsuit

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1. Syrian Minorities in Post-Assad Syria: Fear and Uncertainty

Key Discussion: The episode opens with a poignant exploration of the aftermath of Bashar al-Assad's fall in Syria. While many Syrians have celebrated the regime's collapse with joy evident in street dance parties, there's an underlying current of fear and apprehension among minority communities about potential retribution from the new leadership.

Notable Insights:

• Leila Fadel reports from Damascus, highlighting the complex emotions of freedom intertwined with grief for those lost during the civil war and concerns among minorities about future oppression.
• Steve Inskeep delves into the specific fears of the Alawite community, traditionally aligned with Assad, who now worry about becoming scapegoats under the new regime.

Notable Quotes:

• Leila Fadel [00:03]: "Some people aren't sure how much to celebrate the fall of Syria's government."
• Ibrahim Issa [04:34]: "The regime would make us poor by burning our agriculture, our forests, forcing us into the army."

Detailed Insights: Leila Fadel explains that while Assad's regime leveraged religious and ethnic minorities to maintain power, many within these communities did not experience significant privilege. Instead, they faced systemic poverty and limited economic opportunities, with many being coerced into military service. For instance, Ibrahim Issa, an Alawite shop owner, recounts how the regime’s oppressive tactics left his community impoverished and reliant on the military for survival.

The discussion reveals that despite the regime's collapse, fears persist. Instances of social tensions have emerged, such as online threats against Alawites and neighborhood disputes that hint at a societal shift where minorities might be targeted. However, there is also hope that these fears are merely apprehensions of an uncertain future rather than imminent threats.

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2. Renewed Efforts for a Ceasefire Between Israel and Hamas

Key Discussion: The podcast transitions to the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, focusing on the latest diplomatic efforts spearheaded by U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken to broker a ceasefire.

Notable Insights:

• Antony Blinken [00:28]: "This is a moment to bring this to an end, which is something American diplomats have said many times before."
• Michelle Kellerman [07:33]: Provides on-the-ground perspectives from Tel Aviv about the shifting dynamics that might make a ceasefire more achievable this time.

Notable Quotes:

• Antony Blinken [07:09]: "This is a moment to bring this to an end in a way that gets the hostages home and finally brings relief to people who suffered and continue to suffer every single day."
• Efrat Machikawa [09:26]: "Only diplomacy can get my uncle, who turned 80 in captivity, out of Gaza."

Detailed Insights: Michelle Kellerman outlines why current negotiations hold more promise than previous attempts. The degradation of Hamas' military capabilities and the weakening of Iranian influence in the region, especially after Assad's fall, have altered the power balance. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's desire to shift focus towards Iran is also a critical factor driving these renewed peace efforts.

The potential ceasefire deal under consideration includes:

• Duration: Up to two months of ceasefire.
• Hostage Exchange: Hamas would release some hostages in exchange for Palestinian detainees.
• Future Considerations: The role of Hamas in Gaza, governance structures, and the facilitation of humanitarian aid are key unresolved issues.

Families of hostages remain cautiously optimistic, as highlighted by Efrat Machikawa, who emphasizes the importance of successful diplomacy for the release of her elderly uncle. On the Palestinian side, residents of Gaza express desperation over ongoing airstrikes, with reports of extensive casualties among civilians, including women and children. Health officials in Gaza indicate that despite achieving certain military goals, the humanitarian crisis continues unabated.

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3. ABC News Settles Defamation Lawsuit with Donald Trump

Key Discussion: The final segment addresses ABC News' decision to settle a defamation lawsuit filed by President Elect Donald Trump. The settlement includes a $15 million donation to Trump's presidential library and a public statement of regret, despite strong legal defenses supporting ABC's position.

Notable Insights:

• David Falkenflik: Explains the origins of the lawsuit, stemming from remarks made by George Stephanopoulos during an interview with Nancy Mace.
• Legal Experts: Comment on the likely defensibility of ABC's actions under First Amendment protections, suggesting the settlement might be influenced by broader political pressures rather than the lawsuit's merits.

Notable Quotes:

• David Falkenflik [12:17]: "They said what Stephanopoulos said was close to what the judge said, but there's a case law defense of something being substantially true."
• Steve Inskeep [13:16]: "It matters who you are. If you're totally a private citizen, maybe if somebody says something terrible about you, you can sue. It gets harder when you get more famous."

Detailed Insights: The lawsuit originated from an April incident where George Stephanopoulos questioned Nancy Mace about her support for Trump after her tragic past, leading to allegations that Stephanopoulos insinuated Mace supported Trump despite his alleged misconduct. Although the jury did not find Stephanopoulos liable for rape under New York State law, the judge noted that the actions fell within a common understanding of the term "rape," complicating the public narrative.

Legal analysts consulted by NPR suggest that under the precedent set by New York Times Co. v. Sullivan, the press enjoys substantial protections when reporting on public figures, especially those in high-ranking positions like the President. Despite this, ABC News chose to settle, an unusual move given the strong legal defenses available. The settlement's timing coincides with a broader trend of media organizations seeking to mitigate tensions with the incoming Trump administration, which has expressed intentions to challenge press freedoms aggressively.

David Falkenflik points out that the settlement could be a strategic decision by ABC to avoid prolonged legal battles and potential political repercussions, especially as Trump hints at using governmental powers to influence media operations.

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Conclusion

This episode of Up First from NPR provides a comprehensive overview of three significant stories shaping the global and national landscape:

1. Syrian Minorities' Concerns: The fall of Assad brings a complex mix of liberation and fear among minority communities, highlighting the fragile nature of post-conflict societal restructuring.

2. Israel-Hamas Diplomatic Efforts: Renewed ceasefire negotiations offer a glimmer of hope amidst devastating conflict, influenced by shifting geopolitical dynamics and a changed regional power structure.

3. ABC-News and Trump Lawsuit: The settlement between ABC News and Donald Trump underscores the challenges media organizations face in balancing journalistic integrity with political pressures in an increasingly polarized environment.

These narratives collectively illustrate the intricate interplay of politics, human rights, and media dynamics in today's world.

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Credits:
Produced by Ziad Van Nia Dumas and Katie Klein
Edited by Carrie Khan, Emily Kopp, H.J. Mai, and Mohammed El Bardisi
Engineering Support: Arthur Laurent
Technical Director: Zach Coleman
Guest Contributors: Arzu Rezvani and Taylor Haney from Team Damascus

Support NPR's Reporting:
Subscribe to Up First+ for sponsor-free listening and exclusive content.

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This summary is intended for informational purposes and reflects the content discussed in the specified Up First from NPR episode aired on December 16, 2024.

Transcript

[Leila Fadel]

Some people aren't sure how much to celebrate the fall of Syria's government.

[Steve Inskeep]

We've heard people dance in the streets. Now we hear from Syrians who ask if the collapse of the old order might bring retribution against them.

[Leila Fadel]

I'm Leila Faudl in Damascus with Steven Skeep in Washington. And this is up first from NPR News. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is trying one more time for a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas.

[Antony Blinken]

This is a moment to bring this.

[Leila Fadel]

To an end, which is something American diplomats have said many times before. What makes this time any different?

[Steve Inskeep]

Also, ABC News settled a defamation lawsuit with President Elect Trump. The network will donate millions to his presidential library, even though experts felt ABC had a strong legal defense. So why pay? Stay with us. We've got the news you need to start your day.

[Tom Colicchio]

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[Steve Inskeep]

The fall of Syria's longtime president means different things to different people there.

[Leila Fadel]

In the past few days, we've watched many Syrians break into impromptu dance parties in the street. But in that joy over their newfound freedom, there is also grief and desperation for the families of the tens of thousands of people who disappeared under Bashar al Assad's rule and the hundreds of thousands killed in a civil war. And then there are people who are worried what the new leadership might do to them.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay, Leila, let's follow up on this. Who would Be concerned about life not improving or even getting worse after this regime is gone.

[Leila Fadel]

Yeah, I mean, Assad really leaned on religious and ethnic minorities and marginalized communities to shore up support against the opposition, stoking fears that they would be even more oppressed if the most extreme within his opponents rose to the top. And because Alawites are are of the same sect as Assad, it's an offshoot of Shia Islam. They dominated the top ranks of the military and intelligence. There's this assumption that the community was more loyal to Assad than others in Syria. So now they feel like they could pay the price for Assad and his top loyalist crimes against Syrians when they lived under the same oppression that other Syrians lived under.

[Steve Inskeep]

Well, since you raise it, let me ask if people did anything that they now need to be worried about. Did people in that Alawite sect lead a life of privilege under the old regime?

[Leila Fadel]

In short, no. I mean, the elite are a tiny sliver of an otherwise really poor community. And Assad's loyalists, the elite in Syria were Sunni, were Alawite, we're Christian. And it's evident this poverty. As soon as you drive into the Mezza 86 neighborhood in Damascus, that's in the shadow of Bashar Al Assad's palace, right away you see the cinder block homes, the electric wires tangled and hanging in the narrow alleys, the potholed streets. A lot of families here, Alawites, stayed in military service because the Assad family gave them no other economic choices. Listen to what Ibrahim Issa, who runs a perfume shop in the area, said.

[Ibrahim Issa]

The regime would make us poor. They wouldn't give us food or drink or jobs. They would make us poor by burning our agriculture, our forests, so we wouldn't work in agriculture, forcing us into the army.

[Leila Fadel]

And if you could see Isa, I mean, he was so excited that Assad has gone. He had this twinkle in his eyes and what seemed like an incurable smile because he can finally leave his neighborhood. He was evading military service for two years because he didn't want to fight fellow Syrians, that military service is mandatory and because conscripts are paid next to nothing to fight for this regime that gave them next to nothing. So he couldn't risk getting snatched up at a checkpoint.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay, so he's against the old regime. He's still worried about being targeted by the new regime. Are people where you were being targeted?

[Leila Fadel]

I mean, in a word, no, not in this neighborhood. When the rebel fighters first came to their neighborhood, they were polite and peaceful people. In the area told me they took away weapons from soldiers and told them, go home now you're civilians. The new leadership has said they will be protected and part of a new Syria, but they're still scared. This is a community that had both soldiers in Esset's army and people fighting with the rebels. They've bled in this country's civil war on both sides. The community was also targeted with bombings by extremists, including in this neighborhood. And now they're starting to see threats on Facebook warning Alawites that revenge killings are coming. One showed me a video of an Alawite shrine that he said was recently burned outside of Damascus, and it is showing up not from leadership but in their daily lives. I met a man who is engaged to a Sunni Arab woman and the family loved him until Assad fled. Now some have turned on him and don't want him in the family because of his religious sect. And another woman is having a neighborhood dispute about the pipes leaking in her apartment from the apartment above. And that neighbor is Sunni. And now she leans out the window and taunts them saying, where are the Alawites? The tables have turned. So there's definitely apprehension and concern that they'll become scapegoats. But they hope that fear is just that, fear of the unknown.

[Steve Inskeep]

Leila, thanks for all the subtleties. Really appreciate it.

[Leila Fadel]

You're welcome, Steve. There's renewed hope for a ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas.

[Steve Inskeep]

Senior Biden administration officials have been in the region pushing the negotiations which they say have been intense lately. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is just back from his latest trip to the Middle East.

[Antony Blinken]

This is a moment to bring this to an end and bring this to an end in a way that gets the hostages home and finally brings relief to people who suffered and continue to suffer every single day.

[Steve Inskeep]

Israeli airstrikes in Gaza continue with the Palestinian death toll climbing to nearly 45,000.

[Leila Fadel]

NPR's diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman joins us now from Tel Aviv. Good morning, Michelle.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Good morning, Layla.

[Leila Fadel]

So we've heard many, many times that negotiations are underway, are intense, and there's optimism that a possible deal is afoot and then no deal. What are you hearing from US Officials that makes it different this time?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Well, they say the whole context in the region has changed. Hamas has been degraded to the point where it can't carry out another October 7th like attack. Israeli strikes and assassinations have degraded the Iranian Baghdad in Lebanon and there's a ceasefire there now. And Iran lost its clients state in Syria with the fall of Bashar Al Assad. So many say that Hamas is now being more flexible. A source close to the negotiations also told NPR that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu wants a deal because he wants to focus more on Iran.

[Leila Fadel]

So what do we know about this deal that's emerging and the sticking points?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Well, it would be a lengthy ceasefire, up to two months. Hamas would release some hostages in exchange for Palestinian detainees released from Israeli jails. But exactly who is being debated. And there are a lot of big open questions about Hamas's future role, about who runs Gaza and how to secure Gaza to get vital aid in. So this deal would really just be a start.

[Leila Fadel]

And you're there in Israel. What are you hearing from family members of some of the hundred hostages still being held in Gaza? Are they optimistic?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Well, I woke up this morning to skywriting planes painting huge ribbons in the sky to draw attention to the hostages. Families are cautious. You know, they've been here before only to be disappointed by Netanyahu. I met Efrat Machikawa in central Tel Aviv on Saturday night at a rally for the hostages. She said only diplomacy can get her uncle, who turned 80 in captivity, out of Gaza.

[BetterHelp]

War has only sad endings.

[Steve Inskeep]

We cannot talk of a victory to knee their side.

[Michelle Kellerman]

And a lot are really worried about the talk of a partial deal. They want Netanyahu to bring everyone back.

[Leila Fadel]

What have you heard from Palestinians in Gaza who are living under these airstrikes and this and in this war about a possible ceasefire and hostage detainee exchange?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Well, I mean, they're desperate for an end to the relentless Israeli strikes that have destroyed hospitals and schools. The Israeli military says it's targeting Hamas fighters. But we're hearing from Gaza health officials that many women and children have been killed in these strikes, as well as medical staff. You know, Leila, over 100 were reported killed this weekend alone. And these strikes continue months after the US and others said that Israel had already reached its military goals in Gaza.

[Leila Fadel]

NPR's diplomatic correspondent Michelle Kellerman. Thank you, Michelle.

[Michelle Kellerman]

Thank you.

[Steve Inskeep]

Why did ABC News settle a lawsuit with President elect Trump? The TV network is making a $15 million donation to Trump's future presidential library and also posting a statement of regret. That is the settlement over remarks by anchor George Stephanopoulos during an interview. The settlement comes just as an incoming administration talks of using the power of government and the legal system to penalize news coverage they don't like. NPR media correspondent David Falkenflick is covering all this. David, good morning.

[David Falkenflik]

Good morning, Steve.

[Steve Inskeep]

What was the lawsuit about?

[David Falkenflik]

So let's go back to March. Donald Trump, former president surging in the Republican primaries. Stephanopoulos on the Sunday Public affairs show this week. He was speaking with Nancy Mace. She's a Republican congresswoman from South Carolina, used to be a real critic of Trump, became a supporter of him. She had talked poignantly about how she'd been raped as a teen. And George Stephanopoulos is saying, well, then why do you support Donald Trump? And he kept saying relentlessly, look, he was found liable in a civil suit of rape. Well, that's not actually quite right. He was found guilty of sexual abuse and the jury in that civil trial did not find him liable of rape. What the judge said in the case pointedly, however, was that what he was found liable for did fall under the definition of what everybody in America in common conversation might understand to be rape, but that it didn't fit under the precise technical definition of rape under New York State law.

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm just thinking about that. So according to the judge, this is something of a subtlety and it's involving a public figure where normally you can have very, very wide latitude to say all sorts of things. What had legal experts said about the merits of Trump's case against ABC News?

[Michelle Kellerman]

Sure.

[David Falkenflik]

I spoke to six First Amendment media lawyers over this weekend and they kind of agreed with my gut instinct on this. They said what George Stephanopoulos did was a screw up. And a number of them said they would have expected ABC and Stephanopoulos clarified the distinction pretty promptly. But they also said this should have been a pretty easy call to defend in court because what Stephanopoulos said was close to what the judge said, but in precise, there's kind of a case law defense of something being substantially true. And as you point out, you know, public figures, you know, under a major court case decided by the Supreme Court called New York Times v. Sullivan 60 years ago, they gave great protections to what people say in the press and in public about public officials to allow for sort of a rolling and roiling freed freedom of speech about politicians, that you don't have to be perfect. And so you can say things that are critical about public figures. And they can't just use the courts against you. A president or a former president or a future president would be somebody at the very top of the pyramid of public figures.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It matters who you are. If you're totally a private citizen, maybe if somebody says something terrible about you, you can sue. It gets harder when you get more famous. So why in this case did ABC News settle?

[David Falkenflik]

Well, it remains a mystery why they didn't clarify, but why did they settle? They say they're happy to be past it. We don't know exactly, but this is un major amount of money, particularly for a public figure. It also comes at a time as a number of news organizations and a number of owners and leaders of news organizations appear trying to make peace with Trump. You think of the killed endorsements of Vice President Harris in the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post. You know, a top executive over ABC News was seen at Mar? A Lago meeting with a key incoming figure in the new Trump administration. And finally, this is all, of course, at a time when incoming President elect Donald Trump and the officials around him have suggested a strong not only willingness but intent to use the powers of government against the press, the powers of regulation, desire to go after reporters and publishers over printing government secrets, and now very much the courts as well.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's David Falkenflik, thanks so much.

[David Falkenflik]

You bet.

[Steve Inskeep]

And that's up for us for this Monday, December 16th. I'm Steve Inskeep.

[Leila Fadel]

And I'm Leila Fadel. We here at up first give you three big stories of the day. Our consider this colleagues take a different approach. They dive into a single news story and what it means to you in just 15 minutes. Listen now on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's Team Damascus for Up first includes Arzu Rezvani and Taylor Haney. Today's episode was edited by Carrie Khan, Emily Kopp, H.J. mai and Mohammed El Bardisi. It was produced by Ziad Van Nia Dumas and Katie Klein. We get engineering support from Arthur Laurent, and our technical director is Zach Coleman. Join us tomorrow.

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