Up First from NPR — "The Horror of Codependency" (August 17, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of NPR's Up First: The Sunday Story features host Ayesha Rascoe in conversation with actors Alison Brie and Dave Franco, a real-life married couple who star together in a new horror film exploring the terrifying and tender territory of codependency in long-term relationships. The film uses horror as a creative lens to address questions about losing oneself in partnership, the challenges of maintaining individuality, and the bittersweet stickiness that can define romantic lives over time. Through their discussion, Brie and Franco reflect on art imitating life, collaboration, and the personal growth fostered in their own relationship.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Premise: Horror as Relationship Metaphor

• Ayesha Rascoe sets the tone by acknowledging the struggles and growth in long-term relationships:
  • “It can really become difficult to know who you are outside of that partnership. It’s that kind of stickiness that’s at the heart of a new horror film…” (00:08)
• Film Summary:
  • Alison Brie plays Millie, a schoolteacher eager to move the relationship forward.
  • Dave Franco plays Tim, a wannabe indie rocker with commitment and financial struggles.
  • They become literally attached to each other after a bizarre event during a hike, embodying the horror of codependency. (01:29)

2. Character Dynamics & Relationship Themes

• Alison Brie discusses Millie’s motivations:
  • "Millie really is eager for their lives to move forward... and wants to take the next step, possibly into getting married.” (01:35)
  • Millie begins to question whether it’s love or simply comfort and fear of change keeping them together.
• Dave Franco on Tim’s internal barriers:
  • “Tim is dealing with some serious trauma... making it hard for him to fully commit... he might lose his own personal identity.” (02:10)
  • Humorous acknowledgment of Tim’s failures:
    • “I mean, I was making him sound way better than he actually is.” (02:37)

3. The Literal and Figurative “Fusing”

• The movie’s central body horror element—being stuck together—symbolizes the collapse of boundaries in partnership.
  • Ayesha: “Their legs are like stuck together and from this point on things get weird. They get weird, to put it mildly.” (04:10)
• Alison: “There is this idea of losing oneself in a relationship and sometimes, yeah, it’s beautiful... But I certainly think there are a lot of people who are scared about losing their identity.” (04:43)

4. Codependency: Healthy vs. Toxic

• Dave Franco:
  • “The movie isn’t necessarily saying codependency is good or bad. I think different audience members will take different things from it.” (05:43)
  • Shared anecdote: The movie inspires both singles and couples in very different ways—some see arguments for independence, others, for bonding. (05:52)
• Alison on real life:
  • “If we didn’t feel like we had a healthy relationship and feel good about our relationship, we would never have signed on to play these characters.” (06:35)

5. Art Imitating (and Testing) Life

• The couple reflects on what portraying this “nightmare” couple taught them about their own marriage:
  • Dave: “We also said, like, this could end in divorce or we'll be more codependent than ever. And luckily it's the latter.” (06:47)
  • Alison: “These characters in the film are terrible at communication... it was a lot of checking and feeling grateful for the good parts of our relationship... we do communicate.” (07:18)
• The demands of acting independently actually keep their codependency in check, providing space to grow as individuals. (07:56)

6. Behind the Scenes: Physical and Emotional Challenges

• Ayesha asks about the process of being physically attached for the film:
  • Dave: “We were literally attached to each other with prosthetics. Some days for 10 hours... we're going to the bathroom together... I was standing over her, you know, touching her, looking into her eyes and thinking, we could not have made this with anyone else.” (08:49, 09:00)
• Alison: “Our arms were attached truly... we couldn’t separate even millimeters... that claustrophobia sort of enhanced what the characters were going through.” (09:30)

7. Growth and Support in Relationships

• Dave: “I think about how Alison has changed me for the better. She really brings me out of my shell... we really are each other's biggest fans and encourage each other to take really big risks.” (10:20)
• Alison: “The hope in a long term relationship... is that you grow together... and so to do it in a couple, that's the hardest part, right? Is kind of hoping you grow in the same direction.” (11:05)

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Alison Brie:
  • “There is this idea of losing oneself in a relationship and sometimes, yeah, it's beautiful... I becomes we... But... a lot of people... are scared about losing their identity.” (04:43)
• Dave Franco:
  • “We could not have made this with anyone else.” (09:00)
  • “We killed ourselves. We put everything into this one and were able to do it together... we're relishing in it and just kind of trying to enjoy every moment because it is so rare.” (11:29)
• Audience Reactions (Alison recounting post-premiere):
  • “One of them says... I was sobbing... because I want to love like that. And the man she was with goes, I thought it was horrifying.” (14:36)
• Alison on genre:
  • “This is a gateway horror movie... it has some great genuine scares. But people who are averse to horror, like, there's a lot of people out there who think they don't like horror at all. This is the movie for them because it is romantic... but also it has a good sense of humor.” (16:37)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–01:29 – Episode intro, film premise, character set-up
• 02:10–03:12 – Tim’s struggles, humor about failed music career
• 04:10–05:28 – The couple becomes “stuck”; themes of identity loss in relationships
• 05:28–06:09 – Real life parallels, healthy vs. unhealthy codependency
• 06:35–07:56 – Why Brie and Franco took these roles, impact on their relationship
• 08:44–09:30 – Behind the scenes: acting while physically fused
• 10:20–11:05 – How relationships foster growth and support
• 13:35–17:00 – Genre discussion, audience reactions, why horror works
• 16:37–17:29 – The film as a “gateway” for both horror fans and skeptics

Conclusion

This thoughtful and often humorous interview explores how romantic relationships can be both beautiful and frighteningly intense, particularly when boundaries blur. Brie and Franco’s candor about their marriage, combined with their playful repartee and deep insight into relationship dynamics, offers listeners a nuanced look at love, growth, and the ways we lose—and find—ourselves alongside someone else. The film itself is positioned as both a critique and celebration of connection, making this episode informative for anyone reflecting on the meaning of partnership—whether single, coupled, or somewhere in between.