The Horror of Codependency

Summary

Up First from NPR — "The Horror of Codependency" (August 17, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode of NPR's Up First: The Sunday Story features host Ayesha Rascoe in conversation with actors Alison Brie and Dave Franco, a real-life married couple who star together in a new horror film exploring the terrifying and tender territory of codependency in long-term relationships. The film uses horror as a creative lens to address questions about losing oneself in partnership, the challenges of maintaining individuality, and the bittersweet stickiness that can define romantic lives over time. Through their discussion, Brie and Franco reflect on art imitating life, collaboration, and the personal growth fostered in their own relationship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Premise: Horror as Relationship Metaphor

• Ayesha Rascoe sets the tone by acknowledging the struggles and growth in long-term relationships:
  • “It can really become difficult to know who you are outside of that partnership. It’s that kind of stickiness that’s at the heart of a new horror film…” (00:08)
• Film Summary:
  • Alison Brie plays Millie, a schoolteacher eager to move the relationship forward.
  • Dave Franco plays Tim, a wannabe indie rocker with commitment and financial struggles.
  • They become literally attached to each other after a bizarre event during a hike, embodying the horror of codependency. (01:29)

2. Character Dynamics & Relationship Themes

• Alison Brie discusses Millie’s motivations:
  • "Millie really is eager for their lives to move forward... and wants to take the next step, possibly into getting married.” (01:35)
  • Millie begins to question whether it’s love or simply comfort and fear of change keeping them together.
• Dave Franco on Tim’s internal barriers:
  • “Tim is dealing with some serious trauma... making it hard for him to fully commit... he might lose his own personal identity.” (02:10)
  • Humorous acknowledgment of Tim’s failures:
    • “I mean, I was making him sound way better than he actually is.” (02:37)

3. The Literal and Figurative “Fusing”

• The movie’s central body horror element—being stuck together—symbolizes the collapse of boundaries in partnership.
  • Ayesha: “Their legs are like stuck together and from this point on things get weird. They get weird, to put it mildly.” (04:10)
• Alison: “There is this idea of losing oneself in a relationship and sometimes, yeah, it’s beautiful... But I certainly think there are a lot of people who are scared about losing their identity.” (04:43)

4. Codependency: Healthy vs. Toxic

• Dave Franco:
  • “The movie isn’t necessarily saying codependency is good or bad. I think different audience members will take different things from it.” (05:43)
  • Shared anecdote: The movie inspires both singles and couples in very different ways—some see arguments for independence, others, for bonding. (05:52)
• Alison on real life:
  • “If we didn’t feel like we had a healthy relationship and feel good about our relationship, we would never have signed on to play these characters.” (06:35)

5. Art Imitating (and Testing) Life

• The couple reflects on what portraying this “nightmare” couple taught them about their own marriage:
  • Dave: “We also said, like, this could end in divorce or we'll be more codependent than ever. And luckily it's the latter.” (06:47)
  • Alison: “These characters in the film are terrible at communication... it was a lot of checking and feeling grateful for the good parts of our relationship... we do communicate.” (07:18)
• The demands of acting independently actually keep their codependency in check, providing space to grow as individuals. (07:56)

6. Behind the Scenes: Physical and Emotional Challenges

• Ayesha asks about the process of being physically attached for the film:
  • Dave: “We were literally attached to each other with prosthetics. Some days for 10 hours... we're going to the bathroom together... I was standing over her, you know, touching her, looking into her eyes and thinking, we could not have made this with anyone else.” (08:49, 09:00)
• Alison: “Our arms were attached truly... we couldn’t separate even millimeters... that claustrophobia sort of enhanced what the characters were going through.” (09:30)

7. Growth and Support in Relationships

• Dave: “I think about how Alison has changed me for the better. She really brings me out of my shell... we really are each other's biggest fans and encourage each other to take really big risks.” (10:20)
• Alison: “The hope in a long term relationship... is that you grow together... and so to do it in a couple, that's the hardest part, right? Is kind of hoping you grow in the same direction.” (11:05)

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• Alison Brie:
  • “There is this idea of losing oneself in a relationship and sometimes, yeah, it's beautiful... I becomes we... But... a lot of people... are scared about losing their identity.” (04:43)
• Dave Franco:
  • “We could not have made this with anyone else.” (09:00)
  • “We killed ourselves. We put everything into this one and were able to do it together... we're relishing in it and just kind of trying to enjoy every moment because it is so rare.” (11:29)
• Audience Reactions (Alison recounting post-premiere):
  • “One of them says... I was sobbing... because I want to love like that. And the man she was with goes, I thought it was horrifying.” (14:36)
• Alison on genre:
  • “This is a gateway horror movie... it has some great genuine scares. But people who are averse to horror, like, there's a lot of people out there who think they don't like horror at all. This is the movie for them because it is romantic... but also it has a good sense of humor.” (16:37)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:00–01:29 – Episode intro, film premise, character set-up
• 02:10–03:12 – Tim’s struggles, humor about failed music career
• 04:10–05:28 – The couple becomes “stuck”; themes of identity loss in relationships
• 05:28–06:09 – Real life parallels, healthy vs. unhealthy codependency
• 06:35–07:56 – Why Brie and Franco took these roles, impact on their relationship
• 08:44–09:30 – Behind the scenes: acting while physically fused
• 10:20–11:05 – How relationships foster growth and support
• 13:35–17:00 – Genre discussion, audience reactions, why horror works
• 16:37–17:29 – The film as a “gateway” for both horror fans and skeptics

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Conclusion

This thoughtful and often humorous interview explores how romantic relationships can be both beautiful and frighteningly intense, particularly when boundaries blur. Brie and Franco’s candor about their marriage, combined with their playful repartee and deep insight into relationship dynamics, offers listeners a nuanced look at love, growth, and the ways we lose—and find—ourselves alongside someone else. The film itself is positioned as both a critique and celebration of connection, making this episode informative for anyone reflecting on the meaning of partnership—whether single, coupled, or somewhere in between.

Transcript

[A]

Aisha. I'm Aisha Roscoe and this is the Sunday Story. Being in a long term relationship can be tough. I mean, you know, let me tell you, I, I still got some of the scars. You know, you, you grow together, you grow apart, you fight, you make up. And over time, it can really become difficult to know who you are outside of that partnership. It's that kind of stickiness that's at the heart of a new horror film starring real life married couple Alison Brie and Dave Franco. Brie plays Millie, a schoolteacher, and Franco plays Tim, a middle aged wannabe indie rocker. The couple are on the verge of breaking up and questioning what the relationship is really about.

[B]

You've never made me feel unsure before.

[A]

Unsure of what?

[B]

If we love each other? If we're just used to each other.

[A]

The movie explores this question of codependency in a very horrific way as the couple becomes literally attached to each other. Allison and Dave joined me to talk about the film and why horror works, to get at deeper truths about relationships. To get started, I asked Alison to describe what was going on with Millie and Tim at the beginning of the movie.

[B]

Well, I think they are not in a good place. They've been together over a decade, but they don't quite seem to be on the same page in terms of the next steps in their relationship. I play Millie. I think Millie really is eager for their lives to move forward and wants to take the next step, possibly into getting married. She's gotten a new job that's gonna move them away from the, and away from their friends. And, you know, Millie is sort of just starting to question whether they really love each other or whether they've just been together so long that they're comfortable with one another and afraid to separate.

[C]

And I play Tim. And Tim is dealing with some serious trauma, some stuff that happened to his parents and is making it so that it's hard for him to fall fully commit to Millie. You know, he thinks that if he does just completely give himself over, he might lose his own personal identity.

[A]

Well, also, you know, Tim ain't got no job, really. He ain't making no money. Like that's. He was.

[C]

I mean, I was making him sound way better than he actually is.

[A]

You made him sound really.

[C]

I was making him. I was making the audience sympathize with Tim.

[A]

He has like no money, he has no job. Like, well, he's like making music, but he can cook.

[B]

He can cook, he can cook.

[A]

That's what he can do.

[C]

That's his one thing. It's not nothing. It's not nothing. But yes, Tim. Tim is a. He's a failed musician. He did have fame at one point, and that's fame.

[B]

What do we call it? Fame.

[A]

Listen, he had some popularity.

[C]

Yes, there you go.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

He's trying to recapture that, but it's not happening.

[C]

That's. I'm gonna let you guys talk about Tim from now on.

[A]

I'm just saying there were some issues, you know, there was some issues. And so, you know. But then Millie and Tim, they're on this hike and they decide to wait out a storm overnight in a cave. Which is crazy to me. I'm not just staying in a cave. But it's okay. But then to each their own. To each their own. To each their own. But then when they wake up, what is it? Mildew or something?

[B]

Ow. Ow.

[C]

I know.

[B]

What do you want to do? A three legged race?

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

Slow, slow.

[A]

Their legs are like stuck together and from this point on things get weird. They get weird, to put it mildly.

[C]

Yeah. Legs stuck together is just a little toe dip for what happens with the.

[A]

Rest of this film. But this movie, it is an exploration kind of of like the dark side of a long term relationship. Would you say that maybe the horror of a long term relationship, even though they can also be amazing, right?

[B]

Definitely. It's an exploration of fears of monogamy and toxic codependency. And you know that thing that it can either sound romantic or it can sound terrifying where you go like, I don't know where I end and begin. You know, there is this idea of losing oneself in a relationship and sometimes, yeah, it's beautiful. I becomes. We like. You have a language, you have a inside jokes together, you like the same things. But I, I certainly think there are a lot of people who are scared about losing their identity in a relationship or certain people alienate themselves, stop hanging out with their friends, you know, build their whole life around their partner. And I see how that could be a scary idea.

[C]

It's been interesting because Alison and I have been together for 13 and a half years and this is our fifth collaboration. I'm sure a lot of people would consider us very codependent and they probably wouldn't be wrong.

[B]

Healthy in a healthy way.

[C]

That's where I was going with this. The movie isn't necessarily saying codependency is good or bad. I think different audience members will take different things from it. And we've talked to single people who have watched this film and they say this is a very Strong argument for being single. And then, you know, we've talked to a couple who saw the film and the week leading up to the screening, they were in a fight and then they said the film actually helped them make up.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Well, I mean, I wanted to say that because you guys, you said you've been together 13 and a half years, you've been married since 2017. Like, what was it about this movie that made you want to take on the leading roles? Because as a couple. Because it's kind of like looking at this coupledom in a. And, and, and, and maybe not the most positive way.

[B]

Sure. I mean, I think if we didn't feel like we had a healthy relationship and feel good about our relationship, we would never have signed on to play these characters.

[C]

And even, even going into this process, though, with a healthy relationship, we also said, like, this could end in divorce or we'll be more co dependent than ever. And luckily it's the latter.

[A]

Yeah, What'? I mean, because, like, did this movie make you think or rethink any aspects of your own relationship or start any conversations between you two about, like, what it means to be together and have an identity and what that means to be, you know, the better half, but then also be your own person?

[B]

Yeah, I do think, I mean, a couple things this movie, these characters in the film are terrible at communication. So I think in playing these roles, it was a lot of checking and feeling grateful for the good parts of our relationship. And like, oh, good, we do communicate. We talk about our issues, and that's a good thing. And it certainly made us evaluate. Like Dave's saying, we came out of it more codependent than ever. But also. That is true. That is true. But I would also say, you know, we're actors so much of the time when we're not working together, we're in different cities or even different countries for months at a time. So it's sort of. We realized that our job is what's keeping our codependency in check because we do get the time to miss each other. You know, we get time to really be independent and go work with other people and then, you know, we get to come back together.

[A]

And what was it like kind of being together, fused together for a lot of the movie, like, as just the physical process of it. And I would imagine the fact that you're a couple, that can be a positive thing, but it could also be a negative thing because then it's like maybe if y' all was arguing before, y' all had something going on. And now you gotta sit there and look in their face all day. It's like, this is a lot.

[B]

But it was definitely a positive thing that we were married. Yes.

[C]

But it was very strange. I mean, it was strange. We were. We were literally attached to each other with prosthetics. Some days for 10 hours we could not.

[A]

That's a lot for anybody.

[C]

Yeah. And you know, when you think about that, it's like we're going to the bathroom together. That is going to happen when you're attached to someone for 10 hours. And I remember there was a moment when Allison was peeing and I was standing over her, you know, touching her, looking into her eyes and thinking, we could not have made this with anyone else.

[A]

Because that's so loving, though. So, like, y' all are still there. So y' all really are like the positive view of long term relationships.

[C]

Oh, big time.

[B]

Oh, definitely. Oh, definitely. It was fun. Honestly, we got to work a lot with practical effects on this movie, which really helped, I think, the performance. You know, we had something to react off to, off of. And like, in that example that Dave's giving, I mean, our arms were attached truly to the point. I mean, we couldn't separate even millimeters from one another without tearing this prosthetic. And I do just feel like that claustrophobia sort of enhanced what the characters were going through. So that was helpful.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I mean, when you step back, obviously not looking at your own relationship, but when you look at this movie, did it make you rethink how long term relationships can shape a person for good or bad?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, just thinking about our own again, like, we're so lucky to say this, but we're in such a great place after such a long time where I think about how Alison has changed me for the better. I think she really brings me out of my shell. Like, I think I'm inherently a little bit more shy than her. She's very outgoing. And I think what's been amazing work wise is we really are each other's biggest fans and we encourage each other to take really big risks. And so in the last handful of years, we've both been doing a lot more behind the camera in terms of writing, producing, and directing. And I feel like if I didn't have her support, I just wouldn't be as confident to go into all that.

[B]

Yeah, I feel the same. I'm endlessly inspired by Dave. I think the hope in a long term relationship. And we do feel like we talk about this a lot is that you grow together, right? You're always gonna be kind, growing and changing and evolving as a person in your life. And so to do it in a couple, that's the hardest part, right? Is kind of hoping that you grow in the same direction and just to.

[C]

Quickly kind of bring it back to this movie. Like, you know, this is a small movie and we did it in 21 days. We killed ourselves. We put everything into this one and we're able to do it together. Like, this is insane. And this is like. Exactly. And so, like, as crazy as this press tour is been, like, we're relishing in it and just kind of trying to enjoy every moment because it is so rare.

[A]

You're listening to the Sunday Story. Stay with us.

[D]

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[A]

We're back with the Sunday Story. I'm talking with Alison Brie and Dave Franco about their new movie together. You know, the way you guys are talking, you almost think this is a rom com, you know what I'm saying?

[C]

You know, there's, there's elements.

[B]

It is romantic.

[C]

It'S funny, it's romantic.

[A]

And so, so you say you've gotten different reactions from people who are couples or Single. Where do you guys land on this? Is this a scary, horrible, not horrible? When I say horrible, I mean, I like horrible.

[B]

Horrifying.

[A]

Horrifying. That's what. And I love horror. That's my favorite genre.

[C]

Oh, nice.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Oh, yeah, it's my favorite. So where do you land on this? Is this like a scary, horrifying proposition in the movie? Or is this something where you're like, oh, this also shows the power of love. Like, where do you land on it?

[C]

What was the reactions that you heard after our premiere? What did those two people say?

[B]

Oh, yeah, two people came up to me and one of them says, you know, at the end of this movie, I was sobbing and I said, why? And she said, because I want to love like that. And the man she was with goes, I thought it was horrifying. So I don't know, they might have just been friends. I'm like, I don't know if you guys are ending up together, but we.

[C]

Think maybe this is kind of coming from where we're at in our own relationship. But we think the movie is optimistic.

[A]

We. Okay, you think it's an optimistic thing?

[B]

Okay, well, look, it's sort of like if this couple hadn't gone through this crazy thing, this transformation, if they had not encountered this force, they probably would have split up. It's like. Yeah, so it's sort of like in watching them have to navigate the challenges of this film, it actually brings them closer together, even just on an emotional level. Watching them work together, they realize how great they can be together. And that's where the romance comes from.

[A]

Yes, I. I do want to ask, you know, if you, obviously, if you guys were to be fused to anyone, you would want to be fused to each other, but, like, is there, like, is there a way that you felt like was better, like the arm or the leg?

[C]

Like, is there a problem in terms of where we would want to be connected?

[A]

Yeah, where would you want to be connected?

[B]

We've talked about.

[C]

I feel like we're committing to the elbow.

[B]

The elbow. It gives you the most flexibility.

[C]

Yeah. I don't think it would really change that much in our lives.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Yeah. Ok. Yeah. Well, look, I mean, I have to say I've talked to you guys, and you have really reestablished my belief in love.

[C]

All right.

[A]

I've come out of this with a new appreciation for love. This is really incredible. And a different view on the movie, which I did think was, like, scary and like, oh, my goodness.

[C]

And that's okay, too.

[B]

Well, this is the type of movie, you know, we like to say it's a gateway horror movie because horror fans will love it. It is, has some great genuine scares. But people who are averse to horror, like, there's a lot of people out there who think they don't like horror at all.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This is the movie for them because it is romantic. We've talked a lot about that. But also it has a good sense of humor.

[A]

It does.

[B]

Yeah. There's something light. Like at the end of the day, it's just fun and entertaining. It's fun to watch with an audience. It's like one of those great. We've been lucky enough to get to sit in and watch the movie with audiences at Sundance and South by Southwest and recently at our premiere. And every time it's so fun, people are like interacting with the movie. People are screaming, people are covering their eyes, laughing. So it's really fun for anyone.

[A]

That's Alison Brie and Dave Franco who star in the new movie together out now. Thank you so much for joining us.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

That was really fun.

[A]

This episode of the Sunday Story was produced by Andrew Mambo and edited by Jenny Schmidt. It was engineered by Ko Takasugi Chernovin. The original interview was produced by Elena Torick and edited by Ed McNulty. The Sunday Story team also includes Justine Yan and Lianna Simstrom. Our executive producer is Irene Noguchi. I'm Aisha Rascoe. Up first, we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

[D]

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[B]

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