The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni"

Podcast Information

• Title: Up First from NPR
• Host/Author: NPR
• Episode: The Poetic Wealth of Nikki Giovanni
• Release Date: December 15, 2024

Introduction The episode begins with Aisha Roscoe introducing the focus on Nikki Giovanni, a revered African American poet who passed away at the age of 81. Roscoe highlights Giovanni's multifaceted legacy as a poet, activist, spoken word artist, cultural icon, children's book author, professor, and a beacon of black joy and struggle. Describing Giovanni as "an unapologetic truth teller," Roscoe emphasizes the deep personal connection she felt with Giovanni's work.

Early Life and Influences Nikki Giovanni shares insights into her childhood, growing up in challenging circumstances with an alcoholic and abusive father in a house lacking indoor plumbing. Despite these hardships, Giovanni's poetry often celebrates the beauty of community, food, and family.

Legacy and Life Philosophy In an early conversation featured in the episode, host Rachel Martin asks Giovanni about her thoughts on legacy. Giovanni candidly responds, “No. Cause it gets you caught up in your life, and that's not what you're like. Your life is not about your life. Life is about your duty” (21:13). This perspective underscores her focus on duty over personal accolades, a theme that resonates throughout her work.

Childhood and Family Dynamics Giovanni reflects on her early fascination with the cosmos, particularly Mars. She explains how sharing a bedroom with her elder sister placed her by the window, allowing her to gaze at the stars and ponder the universe. This celestial curiosity provided an escape from her tumultuous home life. “I wanted to know why Mars was red. And my obsession was that there was a war on Mars and that they had developed atomic energy so that Mars burned itself up” (06:53).

She also discusses recognizing the dysfunction in her parents' marriage from a young age. “Probably the most unusual thing about my childhood was that I recognized that my parents marriage was not my business because it was unpleasant” (09:24). This realization led her to value the creation of her own family, emphasizing friendships and the loyalty of dogs over traditional family structures.

Personal Fears and Insights In the insights round of the conversation, Giovanni shares a surprising fear: ostriches. “[...] ostriches are mean. No, they are mean. And that kick will kill you” (16:08). She humorously contrasts her fear of ostriches with lions, whom she finds less threatening due to their intelligence and non-aggressive nature unless provoked.

Giovanni also delves into her experiences with illness, candidly discussing her battles with cancer and pneumonia. “I'm not afraid of, you know, being blind. I have a friend who's losing her sight, and it makes her very uncomfortable” (13:10). Her resilience shines through as she expresses a pragmatic approach to her health challenges, viewing them as part of her journey rather than obstacles.

Finding Joy through Cooking When asked about sources of joy, Giovanni highlights cooking as a significant source of happiness. “[...] every time I'm cooking something, I'm thinking about grandmother and how she did it and what” (17:11). Cooking not only connects her to cherished memories of her grandmother but also serves as a therapeutic activity that grounds her in the present.

Belief System and Faith Giovanni identifies as a Christian, though she attends church infrequently and does not engage in traditional practices like prayer. She admires Jesus for his influence and bolsters her faith through the belief that patience is a divine virtue. “I think 90% of all black women, you would run into Christians. We believe that he may not come as an expression that black women have, and I share that expression” (24:23). Her faith emphasizes trust in divine timing and resilience, encapsulating her life philosophy of duty and perseverance.

Conclusion The conversation concludes with Giovanni reflecting on her life with humor and grace. She emphasizes the importance of duty and connections with loved ones, both living and departed. “Yeah, life is a good idea. And wait till you get to be 70. You're gonna love it” (29:46). Her legacy as a poet and an inspiring figure remains impactful, offering lessons in resilience, community, and unwavering honesty.

Notable Quotes

• “Life is not about your life. Life is about your duty.” (21:13)
• “Every time I'm cooking something, I'm thinking about grandmother and how she did it and what.” (17:11)
• “I'm incredibly patient. It takes a lot to really push me, huh?” (12:08)
• “You have to be very careful around them [ostriches].” (16:28)

Time Stamps

• 06:53 – Giovanni discusses her childhood obsession with Mars.
• 09:24 – Reflection on recognizing her parents' unhappy marriage.
• 12:08 – Understanding the emotion of patience.
• 16:08 – Giovanni shares her fear of ostriches.
• 17:11 – Finding joy through cooking and memories of her grandmother.
• 21:13 – Thoughts on legacy and life duty.
• 24:23 – Exploring her Christian faith and beliefs.
• 29:46 – Concluding remarks on life and aging.

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Note: Advertisements and promotional sections within the transcript have been excluded from this summary to maintain focus on the substantive content of the conversation between Nikki Giovanni and Rachel Martin.

Transcript

[Aisha Roscoe]

I'm Aisha Roscoe, and this is a Sunday story from Up First. I always like summer best. You can eat fresh corn from daddy's garden and okra and greens and cabbage and lots of barbecue and buttermilk and homemade ice cream at the church picnic. These are the words of the great African American poet Nikki Giovanni from her poem Knoxville, Tennessee. She died earlier this week at the age of 81. Nikki Giovanni was called many things, the poet of the black revolution, activist, spoken word artist, cultural icon, children's book author, professor, Christian, radiant voice of black joy and struggle. To me, she was also an unapologetic truth teller. And some of her words and poems, I could feel them at a molecular level. That's how much I related to them. Giovanni grew up with an alcoholic, abusive father in a house without indoor plumbing. And while she was never afraid to explore those hardships in her poetry, she also celebrated what was beautiful about community, food and family. Earlier this year, my colleague and host of the podcast Wild Card, Rachel Martin, spoke to Nikki Giovanni. Today we bring you this incredible conversation.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind?

[Nikki Giovanni]

No.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow, I'm surprised by that answer.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Huh? No. Cause it gets you caught up in your life, and that's not what you're like. Your life is not about your life. Life is about your duty.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm Rachel Martin, and this is Wildcard, the game where cards control the conversation. Each week, my guest chooses questions at random from a deck of cards. Pick a card, one through three, questions about the memories, insights, and beliefs that have shaped them. My guest this week is poet Nikki Giovanni.

[Nikki Giovanni]

When you look at the stars and then you think about the other life forms, you think, well, there is something else. I can't quit now. There is something else.

[Rachel Martin]

There are so many words I could use to describe my guest today. Poet, revolutionary, queer, icon, feminist, space enthusiast, mother and grandmother legend. Nikki Giovanni is all those things. But she is also a woman who figured out really early that she didn't have to apologize to anyone for who she was or for what she wanted from her life. She can write poems that look directly at all the pain and hatred in the world. And she can write children's books about feeling safe and loved. She can also conjure what it will look like when humans set up shop on Mars and black women lead the way. Nikki Giovanni has just been doing it her own way all along and writing it down so the rest of us can start to see beyond ourselves and whatever hard thing we happen to be stuck in at any particular moment. Nikki Giovanni. Welcome to Wildcard. I'm so glad you're here.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, thanks, Rachel. I'm glad to be here.

[Rachel Martin]

So I understand you turned 81 on June 7th. Am I right?

[Nikki Giovanni]

81, I couldn't believe. I can't believe it. And, you know, I used to say all the time, you know, I really liked old age. It was a good idea. But 80 really kicked my butt. And I'm hoping that 81 is a lot better. I just got out of the hospital about a week ago. I was just. I'm just old and I was dehydrated and I had to go to London twice. And I like London, but flying back and forth is. I know I could have swim, you know, I would have been better off. So there you go.

[Rachel Martin]

There you go. So are you a person who enjoys a good birthday party? Did you have one?

[Nikki Giovanni]

I am not. And I did. I just had no. You know, parties are work, no matter what anybody says. But we played card. We played bid whisk. I have a bid whisk group. And we played.

[Rachel Martin]

I don't know what that is. That's a card game.

[Nikki Giovanni]

It's like bridge, only for more intelligence. If you do six, we're going to get letters on that one. And my dear friend whom I love so much, Javon Jackson, came down and Javon doesn't go any place without his saxophone. So he plays sax. He plays dinner sax. And so that was very nice because there was no work I didn't have to do. And, I mean, that sounds like a good birthday. And, yeah, I was glad to be out of the hospital, and I was glad to be with friends. And I didn't have to get dressed. I did shower, but I didn't have to be dressed.

[Rachel Martin]

I get it. I get it. I'm so glad you're out of the hospital. I'm glad that you. That you're doing better. Are you a game person? What do you think about this?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, I love games.

[Rachel Martin]

You do?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, sure. The Weakest Link. Jeopardy. The wall. Yeah.

[Unknown]

All right.

[Rachel Martin]

I'm into it. So let me explain how this is gonna go. Okay?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

I've got a deck of cards in front of me, and each one has a question on it that I would love for you to answer. I'm gonna hold up only three cards at a time. And then you, Nikki, are gonna choose one at random to. Okay, there are two rules. You get one skip. If you use your skip, I will swap in another question from the deck. Okay? And rule number two, you get one flip. So you could put me on the spot and ask me to answer one of the questions before you do. And we're breaking it up into three rounds. Okay? Memories, insights, and beliefs with a few questions in each round. And because it's a game, there's a prize when you make it to the end.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Ginger cookies.

[Rachel Martin]

Ginger cookie. How did you know? Oh, I wish I'd made you fresh ginger cookies.

[Nikki Giovanni]

I love ginger cookies.

[Rachel Martin]

Soft kind or crispy?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Soft. Soft. Always soft, like my grandmother.

[Rachel Martin]

It's not ginger cookies. I should just tell you right now so you can emotionally prepare.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I'm leaving. I'll see you later.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay. So this is the memories round. Three cards to choose from. One, two or three?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Of course, two.

[Rachel Martin]

Of course two. You said that like everybody knows it's two. It's the best number.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I'm a baby sister, so I'm number two.

[Rachel Martin]

I get it.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

Were you ever obsessed with a particular cosmic question as a kid?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Yes. I wanted to know why Mars was red. And my obsession was that there was a war on Mars and that they had developed atomic energy so that Mars burned itself up. And as I lay in bed for most of my life, actually to look out the window, I have seen Mars, which is why I talk about it a lot. And I would like to go to Mars because I think that as a black woman, my sisters and I could build a community.

[Rachel Martin]

And I love that you have planted that idea in our collective consciousness and have written a lot about it. When did Mars come into your head? Do you remember? Like, as a kid? Like, what. How. How did you even. I didn't think about Mars as a kid. How did you. How did it capture your imagination?

[Nikki Giovanni]

I'm a baby sister. I shared a bedroom with my big sister. She wanted the bed by the wall. I don't know why, but that gave me the bed by the window. And so I would look out the window and watch the stars. And the stars haven't changed. So you have to ask yourself, what are they telling us? What am I learning?

[Rachel Martin]

Did fixing your gaze upward make you feel safer? I mean, you had a tough home life. You've talked and written a lot about that. Did thinking about the planets, the cosmos, the universe, did that help you escape the. Whatever was going on at home?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, my parents had what I would call in nice words, troubled marriage and what space. Let me know is that this could not be the end. And thank. Thank God I did have a grandmother. And I went ultimately to live with my. With my grandmother. But when you start to. You look at the stars. And then you think about the other life forms and you think, well, there is something else that I can't quit now. There is something else.

[Rachel Martin]

Three new cards. Okay, Same drill. You pick one, two or three.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I guess I should take one.

[Rachel Martin]

Okay, let's do one. What's something you thought was normal about your childhood that you now realize was unusual?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Probably the most unusual thing about my childhood was that I recognized that my parents marriage was not my business because it was unpleasant. Saturday night at 11 o'clock I was listening to my father beat my mother. So that's unpleasant. But you also recognize it has nothing to do with you. It was none of my business. And I didn't believe Ozzie and Harriet or Father Knows Best. I didn't believe any of that. I still don't think that there's such a thing as a happy family because.

[Rachel Martin]

That was your norm. So you assumed that all families to some degree were broken in that way.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Yeah, they're crazy. And so the best thing you can do sometimes you need to walk away. You need to find friends and get rid of the family because the family drives you crazy. Just because you happen to be born doesn't make them kin to you. You make your own family is what I guess I'm saying. Yeah, I recommend dogs, but they're faithful, they're intelligent, and they always love you. You walk into the house, the dog is always happy to see you.

[Rachel Martin]

We've got to take a quick break, but when we come back, I ask Nikki if she is afraid of anything and her answer may surprise you.

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[Rachel Martin]

Now we move into the second round. Oh, the insights round. This is stuff you're learning now, stuff you're working through now. Okay, three new cards. One, two or three. Remember, you have a skip and a flip. You don't have to use them. One, two, or three?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Both. Let's go for two again. Okay.

[Rachel Martin]

What emotion do you understand better than all the others?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Patience. I'm incredibly patient. It takes a lot to really push me, huh? Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Where does that come from?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I don't know. I'm the baby sister of two. So that teaches you one. You're always watching your big sister because they're always so wonderful. They're prettier, they're more intelligent, everything. And so you always. And you want to say, well, one day I'll grow up or whatever, but most of my friends are older. I have very few friends who are my age. I'm 80. I'm 81.

[Rachel Martin]

Right. It's a long life already, Nikki. 81. And most of your friends are older than that. Some good longevity.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I'm hoping that aunt Sarah, who was my mother's great aunt, and nobody liked Sarah, by the way. She was a despicable person. But she lived to be 100. So I do want that gene that lets you live to be 100. I think it'd be interesting to see what's happening at 100.

[Rachel Martin]

My kids asked me that recently if I wanted to, you know, not just to 100, but, like, would I want to live forever? And, you know, that's an interesting question to talk about with kids and how having a finite end to life sometimes creates appreciation because you think things are gonna end, you know? But I said I would do it with some caveats. I just want my health. I just want. I want my body to still work. I don't want things falling apart on me.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, things are gonna fall apart. And so that's, again, one of the things that you can hear in my breathing. It's because of the pneumonia. Oh, and that'll go away. This will get well. But I'm not afraid of, you know, being blind. I have a friend who's losing her sight, and it makes her very uncomfortable. I think it's what an opportunity to now see the world in a different way. I mean, look at. Look at Ray Charles or Stevie Wonder. So you say, well, they couldn't see, but look at what they created. So obviously they saw something. And I'm not afraid. As I said, 80 kicked my butt. I mean, if it could be wrong with me, it was wrong with me. And I was thinking, okay, well, I had cancer, I had lung cancer, and I had breast cancer. And I said, whatever happens, I don't want to read. I don't want to be sitting. Well, I'll be Sitting in hell, because I don't think I'm going to heaven, but I don't want to be sitting in hell. And they said she fought cancer for 20 years. I'm not fighting any disease. I'm learning to live with it. And I want the disease to live with me. So every morning that I wake up, me and cancer, we're in good shape. And I say, well, let's take a shower, go about our day.

[Rachel Martin]

Let's do our life. Yeah.

[Nikki Giovanni]

And one day we won't. And then that means that I'll be transitioned. I'll be in another place. And that's what, you know, I'm talking about my grandmother, but that's what I think about grandmother or about Sister Althea, who was my eighth grade teacher. And I loved her so much. But I don't think that they're not dead because they will never be forgotten for me. And I find myself if I'm not careful, and sometimes even if I am talking to them or they're talking to me, you know, you're never alone when you have somebody like that around you.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah. Are you afraid of anything?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I'm very cautious around ostrich. When I was on, you know.

[Rachel Martin]

Nikki, what are you talking about?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Ostrich?

[Rachel Martin]

You're afraid of ostriches?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, yeah. You ever been on safari? They are mean. No, they are mean. And that kick will kill you. Ask a lion. If you had to put a lion against an ostrich, the lion is gone. That's why you don't see lions.

[Rachel Martin]

This is, like, not where I thought we were gonna go. Oh, no, I like it. I like it. I mean, it's real. That is your fear, the ostrich? Yes.

[Nikki Giovanni]

You have to be very careful around them. I'm not afraid of lions because lions are an intelligent being that unless you're threatening them, they're not gonna bother you.

[Rachel Martin]

Right.

[Nikki Giovanni]

But the only ostriches I've had in relation, you know, it's been unpleasant. And I'm lucky that they didn't get to me, or they would have killed Thomas and my son and I. On Sephora. You have to be careful around ostriches. People need to know that.

[Rachel Martin]

That is a good and unexpected public service announcement that you have provided. Nikki. Giovanni. Okay, next question. Three more cards. One, two or three?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Okay, let's do three.

[Rachel Martin]

Three. In what ways do you choose to find joy?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Cooking.

[Rachel Martin]

Cooking.

[Nikki Giovanni]

I love to cook.

[Unknown]

Do you?

[Nikki Giovanni]

I really do. It's. I cooked with my grandmother, and my mother could cook, but not as well as my Grandmother. And I didn't cook with Mommy. I watched Mommy cook. But I cooked with grandmother, and I would be the one. She would. Well, she used to be the one. I hope nobody's upset, but, you know, you'd go and get the chicken. We lived in Knoxville, and so you'd have to. Tennessee. Yeah, yeah. You could go chicken. Chicken was, unfortunately for the chicken, alive. And so grandmother would wring its neck, and then I would be the one to have to pluck it. And I learned to pluck the chicken, but I also learned to cook chitlins because I learned to turn the chitlins intestine. I learned. Yeah. Turn them inside out and pull the fat out. But I also learned to break string beans. And when you do that, you want to pull the string out. So I love. Every time I'm cooking something, I'm thinking about grandmother and how she did it and what.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, I love that.

[Nikki Giovanni]

You know, it's like she's with me. It's like, you know, But I do. It makes. It always makes me happy. And I like other people's cooking sometimes, but mostly, if I have my way, I do my own.

[Rachel Martin]

You said that sometimes you catch yourself, or maybe it's not catching yourself, just sometimes you do just talk out loud to your mom or your grandmother. Does it happen when you're cooking?

[Nikki Giovanni]

I don't know if I'm talking out loud so much as remembering, you know, and you go, and I made some lamb chops that I have to tell you were incredible. And I was trying to remember what it was that grandmother did. It was grandmother's grandmother. And I remembered, oh, it was. She put a little cinnamon. And so I put a little cinnamon and a little apple vinegar. Yes. Oh, God, they were so good. I thought, oh, you know. And I didn't. I don't think I said aloud to grandmother, you know, look what I've done. But, you know, it's one of those, like, I didn't share. I have people.

[Rachel Martin]

You just ate it for yourself.

[Nikki Giovanni]

I didn't.

[Rachel Martin]

You didn't invite people.

[Nikki Giovanni]

They should go get somebody else if they're hungry. Go to. Go to Wendy's.

[Rachel Martin]

We've got another quick break, but when we come back, Nikki tells me about her belief system.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I am. And I almost hate to use this word because there's so many fools out there, but I am a Christian.

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[Rachel Martin]

So now this is the beliefs round. Beliefs 1, 2, 3.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Okay, 3.

[Rachel Martin]

3. Do you think about the legacy that you will leave behind?

[Nikki Giovanni]

No.

[Rachel Martin]

Wow, I'm surprised by that answer.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Huh? No, because it gets you caught up in your life, and that's not what you're Your life is not about your life. Life is about your duty. And so, no, I don't think about it.

[Rachel Martin]

You know, have you seen people get too caught up in preemptively analyzing their legacy?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, I've seen a lot. As I said, I know. I know a lot of famous people, and they are, oh, you know, I wonder what my stamp would look like. I'll be dead, so it doesn't matter. No, I'm serious.

[Rachel Martin]

Someone did not say that to you.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Yeah. Oh, wow. And so you just. No, no. I'm just glad when me and cancer wake up and now when me and cancer and pneumonia wake up and one day we won't. And I don't know, maybe I'll be sad, maybe not. I don't know if it's my friend Toni Morrison, whom I do and still do love so very much. And my favorite Toni Morrison, among other things, is Sula. And when Sula is dying, she says, oh, wait till I tell Nell. Cause Nell is her best friend. And she says, wait till I tell Nell. It doesn't hurt. Wait till I tell Nell.

[Rachel Martin]

Let me ask this question a different way then, though. I get what you're saying, that you don't want to get Wrapped up in your ego, you don't want to think about, whoa, I'm so important. People are going to remember me. What are they going to write on my tombstone? What all the great accolades are going to give me. But are there moments when you think back on your life and allow yourself moments to feel proud?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, there are moments that I feel proud because I've worked hard. And I think the word that means, as you probably also have heard in this conversation, a lot to me is duty.

[Rachel Martin]

Yeah.

[Nikki Giovanni]

And when I went to the opening of the African American Museum in D.C. you go around and around. I certainly recommend anybody doing it. And I had forgotten because a lot of those things I don't handle and I'm not interested in. I forgot we gave permission to use my poetry and. Which gave permission to use my. It's not something. If you start paying attention to that, you'd be crazy. And when I turned to the right, there was a photograph of me. And I just automatically. And it brings tears to my eyes. I automatically just turn over my shoulder to my left to say, look, Grandmother, I did my duty. And. Yeah. And that still amazes me that I did. I mean, I just. It's like she was there. I did my duty, and that's what matters to me. That's beautiful.

[Rachel Martin]

This is the last one. Okay, last question. One, two or three.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Let's go two again.

[Rachel Martin]

What belief helps you make sense of the world?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, I am, and I almost hate to use this word because there's so many fools out there, but I am a Christian, and I think Jesus is a really interesting guy. I really am fascinated by the way he conducted his life. And I think 90% of all black women, you would run into Christians. We believe that he may not come as an expression that black women have, and I share that expression. He may not come when you called, but he always comes on time. So we've learned to wait on the Lord, and I think that that's the most important thing.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you pray?

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, no, no. None of that. No, no.

[Rachel Martin]

How does that.

[Nikki Giovanni]

I seldom go to church.

[Rachel Martin]

Don't go to church, don't pray. But there's still something about Jesus, the Trinity, a Christian God, who you're into.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, he's a very interesting guy. And of course, when he did come from the tomb.

[Rachel Martin]

There are lots of interesting guys, Nikki, but, like.

[Nikki Giovanni]

No, they're not. Let's face that one. But, you know, when he came out of the tomb, he went to Mary Magdalene. So the first thing he went to was a black woman. So you have to appreciate that. And I think that what he said to her was, you know, I've got to go. I've got things to do. But you call me, I'll be there. Which is wait on the Lord. And all of the black women I know believe that. And it made sense to me. You may as well. He'll come when you call. That's why I have patience, you know? No question about it. You know, you wait, you want. You want the Lord to do something. But I'm not asking for, you know, lottery numbers, you know. You know, And I'm not asking you.

[Rachel Martin]

Dear Jesus, help me win. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nikki Giovanni]

None of that. Please let me get well. You know, I don't. You know, I'm worried about this cancer. I didn't ask for any of that because that's a foolish thing to ask for. What you're asking for is let me continue my life of duty with grace. And that's all. If I can gracefully do what I have to do, I'm happy.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you think there's such a thing as heaven, Nikki?

[Nikki Giovanni]

There's a heaven, and my grandmother's sitting up there. I'm going to hell because I hate my father and I'm going to sit down and tell him why. But I'm sure Grandmother and Mommy will, you know, talk to Jesus or God, whoever's there, you know, let her come up and visit, you know, and everybody knows I like champagne, so I'm sure they'll have a glass of champagne and we'll sit there and talk and. Well, you gotta go now. You've been here for two days, you know. You know.

[Rachel Martin]

Do you actually think that.

[Nikki Giovanni]

What do you think? It doesn't matter what I actually.

[Rachel Martin]

It doesn't matter.

[Nikki Giovanni]

What matters is what gets me through the next day.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, you won the game, Nikki. So the prize, alas, is not ginger cookies. I know. It is a trip in our memory time machine.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Yep.

[Rachel Martin]

So as your prize, you get to revisit one moment from your past that you would not change anything about. It's just a moment you'd like to linger a little longer in. What moment do you choose?

[Nikki Giovanni]

That's not only hard, but it's personal. And so I know what I would, but it's none of your business.

[Rachel Martin]

I want you to be in it now, though. Can you go there now, in your mind?

[Nikki Giovanni]

I go there. I go there quite a bit. You do? You don't know me.

[Rachel Martin]

You don't need me to take you there.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Yeah, I haven't been well, right now, I'M getting better, but I haven't been well. And so I stay in that spot right now. And it works. My old ladies come through, no matter what's going on. My old ladies are, I mean, I'm in the hospital. To me, I love hospitals because they're grandmothers, you know, and they come in the morning and they say, how's my baby doing today? But it's like all of these, not all, but a couple of old ladies that I really love, and they're right there. They say, you know, you'll be all right. Don't worry about it.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, you don't owe me anything. You don't have to take me to your moment, but I'm glad that you can go there easily these days.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Yeah, they're with me. Yeah. Yeah.

[Rachel Martin]

Well, it was my great pleasure to get to talk with you. Thank you so much for doing this.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Oh, thank you. I hope I didn't sound too crazy, but life is a good idea. And wait till you get to be 70. You're gonna love it.

[Rachel Martin]

Nikki Giovanni, poet, author, revolutionary, amazing human. Thank you so much for talking with me.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Thank you.

[Rachel Martin]

If you want to hear more from Nikki Giovanni, we've got a bonus question you can hear by signing up for Wildcard Plus. I ask her what her thoughts on marriage.

[Nikki Giovanni]

Well, first of all, it takes patience, of which I have a lot. And secondly, well, it's a good tax right off ballot.

[Rachel Martin]

Oh, Nikki. You'll also hear Ted Danson talk about adjusting to the world of adult responsibility, and you'll hear my reflections on how those conversations affected me personally. Wildcard plus is the best way to support our show and support public radio at the same time. Go to plus.NPR.org wildcard to join today.

[Aisha Roscoe]

Make sure to follow NPR's wild card podcast wherever you listen. This episode of Wild Card was produced by Lee Hale and edited by Dave Blanchard. It was fact checked by Barclay Walsh and mastered by Robert Rodriguez. The Sunday Story team includes Andrew Mambo, Justine Yan, Jenny Schmidt and Leanna Simstrom. I'm Aisha Rascoe, and this is a Sunday STORY from Up First. We'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

[Unknown]

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