Trump And Free Speech, CDC On Childhood Vaccines, Antifa Terror Designation

Summary

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Up First from NPR – September 19, 2025

Episode Summary

Theme Overview:
This episode dives into three major stories at the intersection of politics, public health, and law. It examines:

1. President Trump’s calls for government action against media critics, raising free speech concerns.
2. Major shifts in CDC childhood vaccine guidance under Health Secretary RFK Jr., highlighting controversies around changing recommendations.
3. Trump’s push to label Antifa a terrorist organization following high-profile violence, and the legal gray areas this exposes.

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1. Trump, the FCC, and Free Speech Concerns

Main Discussion Points

• Trump Pressures the FCC:
  President Trump openly suggests that broadcasters who criticize him should have their licenses threatened. He directly references ABC and comedian Jimmy Kimmel, after Kimmel’s comments referencing the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.

  • Quote: Donald Trump:
    “I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Carr.” (00:06; 05:04)

• FCC Power and Legal Limits:

  • The FCC, under Chairman Brendan Carr (a Trump appointee), is exerting pressure on media companies. Carr threatened to intervene after Kimmel’s monologue, leveraging FCC authority over broadcast licenses and mergers.
  • Tamara Keith (White House correspondent) explains Carr’s legal limits, noting a Democratic commissioner says Carr lacks unilateral authority to revoke licenses for content. However, the FCC’s investigative and regulatory power can still have a chilling effect.
    • Quote: Tamara Keith:
      “...Carr doesn’t have the legal authority to do this. But that may not matter. The FCC has significant power to investigate and fine stations and yes, even pull broadcast licenses. It also has jurisdiction over mergers and acquisitions, which has given Carr significant leverage.” (03:59)

• Republican Reversal:
  The campaign against “anti-Trump” speech contrasts with previous Republican positions defending free speech against left-wing “cancel culture.” Carr himself once wrote the FCC had no mandate to police speech. (03:31)

• First Amendment and Legal Risks:

  • Legal scholars and advocacy groups warn this weaponization of government power clearly violates American norms of free speech.
    • Quote: Ilya Somin, Cato Institute:
      “Sort of the bald faced nature of what the administration is doing is not difficult at all. ...the First Amendment doesn’t guarantee you a job, but it does prevent the government from trying to get you fired for something you said.” (06:09; 06:21)

• Trump Administration Response:
  The White House maintains, “free speech is alive and well,” but continues pursuing lawsuits against major media outlets and using its power to influence coverage.

Notable Segment Timestamp:

• FCC power & First Amendment debate: (02:56 – 07:03)

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2. CDC Panel Shifts on Childhood Vaccines

Main Discussion Points

• Panel Overhaul and New Direction:
  A CDC vaccine advisory panel, revamped by Health Secretary RFK Jr., is pursuing dramatic policy changes. All previous members were fired; new members are combing for evidence of vaccine harm, challenging longstanding science.

  • Quote: Ping Huang (NPR):
    “They’re challenging years of established vaccine science and they’re digging deep into old data to try and find evidence of harms.” (07:36)

• MMRV Vaccine Recommendation Change:
  The panel voted to stop recommending the combined MMRV shot (measles, mumps, rubella, varicella/chickenpox) for children under 4, citing a slightly higher (yet mostly harmless) risk of febrile seizures compared to separate shots.

  • Quote: Dr. Cody Meissner, Dartmouth (Panel Minority):
    “I urge this committee not to change the recommendations if they truly want to give the power to the parents to decide what is best for their child.” (08:02)
    “This discussion is really a deja vu for me because we had extensive discussions on this very topic 15 years ago...” (09:01)

• Insurance and Access Implications:
  The change may mean Medicaid and private insurers can refuse coverage for the combo shot for kids under 4, potentially affecting access and out-of-pocket costs.

• Upcoming Votes:
  The panel is set to debate changes to hepatitis B vaccine schedules and COVID vaccine recommendations, with rising concerns about moves to make childhood vaccines harder to access. Committee member Retsef Levy, who has made unfounded claims about COVID vaccines, is expected to lead critical discussions.

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Panel changes & vaccine debates: (07:13 – 10:33)

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3. Trump and the Antifa "Terrorist" Label

Main Discussion Points

• Context:

  • Calls for action intensified after conservative activist Charlie Kirk’s murder. Despite no evidence linking Antifa to the suspect, Trump and Republican allies campaign for an official terrorist designation.
    • Quote: Steve Inskeep:
      “Top Republican leaders, including President Trump and Senator Ted Cruz, have suggested, without evidence, that Antifa... may be involved in the Kirk killing.” (11:16)

• Legal Realities:

  • Antifa is a movement, not a formal group. U.S. law only allows the State Department to designate foreign groups as terrorists; there’s no legal mechanism for domestic groups due to First Amendment protections.
    • Quote: Odette Youssef (domestic extremism correspondent):
      “There is no such process or legal authority right now to do the same with domestic groups.” (12:15)

• Practical and Rhetorical Dangers:

  • The rhetorical use of “terrorist” to describe domestic activists can have real-world impacts; law enforcement may waste resources chasing nonexistent organizations, and civil society groups could be swept up in investigations.
    • Quote: Faiza Patel, Brennan Center:
      “There’s potentially a broad array of civil society organizations that can be caught up in this as being potentially linked to anti fascism in some way or the other.” (13:38)

• Presidential Response:
  Asked how the government would actually “go after” Antifa, Trump replied, “We’re going to find out,” then jokingly (?) asked if NPR is affiliated with Antifa.

Notable Segment Timestamps

• Antifa “terrorist” label debate: (10:42 – 14:08)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On media criticism and freedom:
  • Donald Trump (re: broadcasters):
    “If they’re 97% against, they give me only bad publicity or press. I mean, they’re getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away.” (05:04)
• On government’s power over speech:
  • Tamara Keith (NPR):
    "Carr doesn’t have the legal authority to do this. But that may not matter." (03:59)
• On government overreach:
  • Ilya Somin (Cato Institute):
    “...The First Amendment doesn’t guarantee you a job, but it does prevent the government from trying to get you fired for something you said.” (06:21)
• On Antifa designation:
  • Odette Youssef (NPR):
    “Antifa is shorthand for anti-fascist. And it’s really more of a movement than a cohesive organization.” (11:16)

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Takeaways

• The Trump White House, backed by FCC Chairman Brendan Carr, is pushing the boundaries of government oversight over critical media—an approach sharply criticized as a First Amendment overreach.
• The CDC’s new vaccine panel, deployed by RFK Jr., is shifting policy in ways that could decrease access and coverage for established childhood vaccines, heightening medical and political tensions.
• Trump’s move to designate Antifa as a terrorist organization, despite legal and practical roadblocks, exemplifies expanding political use of the “terrorism” label, with uncertain and potentially far-reaching consequences.

Listen for detailed analysis of these headline stories and how they’re shaping the national conversation on speech, public health, and protest.

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Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

President Trump suggests the FCC should go after other late night hosts who make fun of him.

[Donald Trump]

I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Cook.

[Leila Fadel]

What power does the government have over broadcasters?

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm Steve Inskeep with Leila Fadel and this is up first from NPR News. Ignoring the pleas of medical professionals, a CDC panel wants to roll back vaccine guidance for children.

[Dr. Cody Meissner]

I urge this committee not to change the recommendations if they truly want to give the power to the parents.

[Steve Inskeep]

How is RFK Jr. Reshaping vaccine policy?

[Leila Fadel]

And in the wake of Charlie Kirk's murder, President Trump says he's going to designate Antifa a terrorist organization. But Antifa isn't a cohesive group and there's no known connection between the left wing activist and Kirk's alleged killer. Stay with us. We'll give you the news you need to start your day.

[Unknown Guest/Reporter]

Foreign.

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[Dr. Cody Meissner]

Sometimes I just need to go and talk to somebody that is not going to judge me right is going to be there and they're going to listen to me. And I can't start just saying, look, I'm not feeling right today and it feels natural. I love it.

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To get matched with a therapist, visit betterhelp.com NPR for 10% off your first month. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile might be right for you with plans starting from 15 bucks a month. Shop plans [e-mail] Switch a upfront payment of $45 for 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. This message comes from Ollie. Back to school season can take a lot out of parents. Ollie is dedicated to helping you prioritize your wellness with solutions that fit seamlessly into your routine, like Women's Multi and Probiotic Mango for your immune system and Ollie's Sleep Gummies for nighttime Rest when occasional sleeplessness occurs. Shop these products and [e-mail] or retailers nationwide. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

[Leila Fadel]

How much further can the government go in policing speech?

[Steve Inskeep]

President Trump said Thursday that broadcasters allowing criticism of him should, quote, maybe lose their license. The Federal Communications Commission licenses TV and radio stations. This week, Trump's chairman, Brendan Carr, threatened retaliation against ABC stations and ab stopped the show of comedian Jimmy Kimmel over a monologue relating to the murder of Charlie Kirk on Fox News. Last night, Carr promised more.

[Dr. Cody Meissner]

I don't think this is the last shoe to drop. This is a massive shift that's taking place in the media ecosystem. I think the consequences are going to continue to flow.

[Steve Inskeep]

The campaign against speech is a reversal for Republicans, including Carr, who wrote in 2019, quote, the FCC does not have a roving mandate to police speech in the name of the public interest. Carr's words.

[Leila Fadel]

NPR senior White House correspondent Tamara Keith has been following all this, and she joins me now. Good morning.

[Unknown Guest/Reporter]

Good morning.

[Leila Fadel]

Okay, so can the FCC chair Carr in this case just pull broadcast licenses because the administration doesn't like a joke or criticism?

[Tamara Keith]

The one Democratic member of the commission said Carr doesn't have the legal authority to do this. But that may not matter. The FCC has significant power to investigate and find stations and yes, even pull broadcast licenses. It also has jurisdiction over mergers and acquisitions, which has given Carr significant leverage. In Kimmel's case, two conglomerates that own local stations put pressure on ABC after Carr said the Kimmel situation could be handled the easy way or the hard way. One of those companies is seeking FCC approval for a merger.

[Leila Fadel]

Is Carr doing the President's bidding here?

[Tamara Keith]

Certainly they are fully aligned and Trump is thrilled with the results. The President has been publicly campaigning against Kimmel for months for his scathing criticisms of Trump and bad ratings, he says. On Air Force One, Trump was asked whether he wanted the FCC chairman to go after other late night hosts he doesn't like. And Trump broadened it out even further, saying the networks are too negative about him.

[Donald Trump]

If they're 97% against, they give me only bad publicity or press. I mean, they're getting a license. I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Carr. I think Brendan Carr is outstanding. He's a patriot, he loves our country, and he's a tough guy.

[Leila Fadel]

I mean, Tam, I mean, how does that square with First Amendment protections for free speech and a Free press advocates.

[Tamara Keith]

And scholars are raising alarms. Trump and his allies have long bemoaned cancel culture on the left. And he came into office promising to restore free speech. But his administration has been sued by law firms and universities for various actions they say are using the power of the government to punish them for speech. Or earlier this week, Attorney General Pam Bondi said hate speech isn't free speech, which made a lot of conservatives uncomfortable. She walked it back. Ilya Soman is a constitutional law expert at the libertarian Cato Institute. And he told me government power is very obviously being weaponized against speech.

[Dr. Cody Meissner]

There are some legal and political issues that are complicated and difficult here. Sort of the bald faced nature of what the administration is doing is not difficult at all. And therefore I want to be clear and unequivocal about it.

[Tamara Keith]

Stoneman told me the First Amendment doesn't guarantee you a job, but it does prevent the government from trying to get you fired for something you said.

[Leila Fadel]

I mean, what does the Trump administration say to this very real alarm? That they're wielding government power to silence people?

[Tamara Keith]

The White House says, quote, free speech is alive and well. But there are many examples of Trump and his administration using the power they have to go after the media. Trump has filed lawsuits against ABC and cbs, which settled. There are suits against the New York Times and Wall Street Journal, which they are fight. And that barely scratches the surface. In the first term he complained about his coverage. This time he is actively working to change it.

[Leila Fadel]

NPR's Tamra Key. Thank you, Tam.

[Tamara Keith]

You're welcome.

[Leila Fadel]

A federal vaccine advisory committee is following through with a pledge to change vaccine policy.

[Steve Inskeep]

The panel advising the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was chosen by Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. NPR's Ping.

[Leila Fadel]

Huang is attending the meeting in Atlanta and joins me now. Good morning, Peng.

[Ping Huang]

Good morning, Leila.

[Leila Fadel]

Tell us about the changes in this panel and why that matters. Yes.

[Ping Huang]

So this has been a highly unusual meeting, leila. There are 12 members. They're new since June when Kennedy fired all the previous members. And they have come with a new approach. They're challenging years of established vaccine science and they're digging deep into old data to try and find evidence of harms. And throughout the meeting, there's been clashes between the new members and with members of the medical establishment like Dr. Jason Goldman, who's president of the American College of Physicians.

[Dr. Cody Meissner]

I urge this committee not to change the recommendations if they truly want to give the power to the parents to decide what is best for their child.

[Ping Huang]

But the committee did vote to change a long Standing recommendation on the MMRV vaccine.

[Leila Fadel]

Okay, so that's the measles, mumps, rubella, and chickenpox vaccine, diseases that are very contagious in kids. How did the recommendation change?

[Ping Huang]

Yeah, that's the combo shot for all of them. And they voted to recommend that kids under 4 should no longer be able to get it. Instead, they should be getting the MMR vaccine and the chickenpox vaccines separately. So that's a subtle change because most kids, 85% of them already do get the shot separately. And that's because of a slightly higher risk of something called febrile seizures, which come with the combo shot. That's something that's been known for a long time. And while I know they sound scary, pediatricians say they're mostly harmless. Here's Dr. Cody Meissner from Dartmouth. He's the only member who served on this committee before.

[Dr. Cody Meissner]

This discussion is really a deja vu for me because we had extensive discussions on this very topic 15 years ago, approximately.

[Ping Huang]

And he was one of three members who voted against the change, but he was overruled. And this recommendation could have implications for insurance coverage.

[Leila Fadel]

Like what kind of implications?

[Ping Huang]

So they're still sorting it out. I mean, this vote could mean that the combo shot is no longer covered by Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program for kids under four. It could also mean that private insurers can maybe choose whether they cover it or not. Now, HHS did send out a statement after the meeting saying they were going to review what this means for insurance coverage before the final decision is made by the CDC's acting director.

[Leila Fadel]

And what do you expect to happen today?

[Ping Huang]

So today they're going to be voting on making changes to the hepatitis B vaccine, which is also a vaccine that's been around for decades. It's been recommended at birth for every baby since 1991, and it seems like they're going to try to delay that first dose. They're also going to be voting on Covid vaccines. So these discussions are going to be led by committee member Retsef Levy, who's a professor of operations management at mit. He's said that Covid vaccines are killing people, despite safety monitoring programs that have found this not to be true. So the committee could agree with the FDA's current recommendations to for people 65 and older or those at higher risk, they could expand on it. But based on yesterday's discussions, doctors groups are worried that they're going to be voting to make them harder to get.

[Leila Fadel]

That's NPR's Ping Huang in Atlanta. Thank you, Ping.

[Ping Huang]

You're welcome.

[Steve Inskeep]

The president's talk about Antifa has raised some questions.

[Leila Fadel]

Yeah. Trump said on social media he will designate it a, quote, major terrorist organization. So what? What is the group really, and what can the government do to it?

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR domestic extremism correspondent Odette Youssef is covering this. Good morning.

[Odette Youssef]

Good morning.

[Steve Inskeep]

I want to remind people of the backdrop. Charlie Kirk was murdered. There is a suspect in custody in Utah. Republicans, some of them, though, were immediately saying, quote, they killed Charlie Kirk. And the administration began talking of rolling up its political critics, critical groups. Where does Antifa fit into all that?

[Odette Youssef]

Well, Antifa is shorthand for anti fascist. And it's really more of a movement than a cohesive organization. But top Republican leaders, including President Trump and Senator Ted Cruz, have suggested, without evidence that Antifa or purported funders of Antifa may be involved in the Kirk killing. Now, the man who is charged with that crime does not have any known affiliation with Antifa, and so far, he's the only person charged in connection with the killing. But this focus on funders is notable because it distinguishes this round of scrutiny from what happened in 2020. You may recall, Steve, back then, President Trump called for Antifa to be designated a terrorist group. That failed in large part because, again, it's not a centralized organization, but also because there is simply no legal mechanism to do this.

[Steve Inskeep]

What do you mean by that? Because when he says designate them as a terrorist group, it sounds very legal.

[Odette Youssef]

So there is a process to designate certain groups as foreign terrorist organizations. So think isis, al Qaeda. That process lies with the State Department, and it requires proof of a foreign connection. But there is no such process or legal authority right now to do the same with domestic groups. And the reason is that such a designation could infringe on Americans First Amendment rights.

[Steve Inskeep]

So much discussion of the First Amendment now. So when the president uses his First Amendment right to say this on social media, are there any teeth behind it?

[Odette Youssef]

Well, there are still a couple reasons to track this, I'm told. You know, first, in 2020, Trump was also calling for the designation of Mexican drug cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. It didn't happen then, but it has happened now. And so this expansion in the application of the term terrorist is already underway. Also, an even a rhetorical conflation of antifa with terrorism has been shown to have real world consequences. I spoke with Faiza Patel at the Brennan center for Justice. She said when that happened in 2020, law enforcement at every level turned their attention and resources toward finding Antifa at protests and trying to establish that it was a national organization. Those efforts failed. But this time, Patel says the impacts could be even broader.

[Faiza Patel]

It's pretty clear from the president's tweet that he is focused on the funding of these groups.

[Unknown Guest/Reporter]

Groups. Right.

[Faiza Patel]

And what that means is that there's potentially a broad array of civil society organizations that can be caught up in this as being potentially linked to anti fascism in some way or the other.

[Odette Youssef]

And I'll add, Steve, yesterday on Air Force One, NPR asked the president how he would go after Antifa since it's more of an ideology than a formal organization. He said, we're going to find out, and then asked our colleague if Antifa had anything to do with npr.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay. That's NPR domestic extremism correspondent Odette Youssef. Thanks so much.

[Odette Youssef]

Thank you.

[Leila Fadel]

And that's up first for Friday, September 19th. I'm Layla Faulded.

[Steve Inskeep]

And I'm Steve Inskeep. NPR News brings you stories from across the country. Thanks to NPR station reporters who are in your community. They live there, they cover it. They're supported by the community, and they cover many others as well. You can keep that network strong by visiting donate.npr.org upfirst in order to contribute.

[Leila Fadel]

Today's episode of Up first was edited by Roberta Rampton, Jane Greenholsh, Andrew Sussman, Mohamed Elvardisi and Olivia Hampton. It was produced by Ziad Buch, Ana Perez and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Nisha Hynes, and our technical director is David Greenberg and our executive producer is Jay Shaler. Join us again on Monday.

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