Scott Horsley (2:37)

Vacate your engine room.

Leela Fado (2:38)

We're prepared to subject you to disabling fire.

Michelle Martin (2:51)

Marines ended up boarding the ship, which is now in U.S. custody. It was the latest escalation in a weekend of rising tensions and renewed threats from Trump.

Leela Fado (2:58)

We are joined now By NPR senior political correspondent Tamara Keith to unpack all this. Good morning, Tam.

Tamara Keith (3:04)

Good morning.

Leela Fado (3:05)

Okay, so the ceasefire between the US And Iran is set to expire Wednesday. But, Tam, this feels like it's all falling apart. Is it?

Tamara Keith (3:15)

We'll find out. Even before the US Took custody of that Iranian ship, President Trump and Iranian officials had been trading accusations about violating the ceasefire. Still, Trump announced that he was sending a team of negotiators to Pakistan today for in person talks to end the war. A White House official tells NPR the team will be led by Vice President J.D. vance and Mideast envoy Steve Witkoff, Trump's son in law, Jared Kushner. But as of this moment, Vance hasn't yet left Washington. And in that same social media post, Trump announced the talks. He also issued new threats. Quote, we're offering a very fair and reasonable deal, and I hope they take it, because if they don't, the United States is going to knock out every single power plant and every single bridge in Iran. No more Mr. Nice Guy. All caps, exclamation point.

Leela Fado (4:09)

I mean, if President Trump wants a deal so badly, why is he again threatening to bomb civilian infrastructure? Targeting civilian infrastructure would be a war crime.

Tamara Keith (4:19)

He's trying to achieve maximum leverage with maximalist threats. But we've seen this movie before. In fact, just two weeks ago. Remember the Easter post about power plant and bridge day? Then, with just 90 minutes before his self imposed deadline, Trump announced the US would agree to a ceasefire. That ceasefire is now getting close to expiring, and there's been very little visible progress towards a lasting peace deal.

Leela Fado (4:45)

Okay, so if these negotiations happen, do you know what the Trump administration is looking to get out of them?

Tamara Keith (4:52)

Well, the President needs the Strait of Hormuz reopened to stabilize oil markets, but it's a key piece of leverage Iran has gained in this war. Trump also set a red line at Iran's nuclear program. He doesn't want Iran enriching uranium, and he wants to take possession of the material Iran still has. But also, Trump is just looking for a way to declare a win and get out of this war. He's been claiming it was nearly over for weeks now, but reality is a stubborn thing. And Iran gets a say in whether this conflict ends or not.

Leela Fado (5:27)

What are the political consequences for Trump if this drags on?

Tamara Keith (5:31)

The average price of gas is hovering near $4 a gallon for regular. At an event last week, Trump said the high prices are, quote, fake inflation. But it is real and it is affecting real people. I interviewed a Trump supporter who said he's basically stopped driving his pickup truck because diesel prices are so high and taken up fasting as a way to spend less on food. He trusts Trump to turn this around, but at some point, people are going to run out of patience.

Leela Fado (5:58)

That's NPR's Tamara Keith. Thank you, Tam.

Tamara Keith (6:00)

You're welcome.

Leela Fado (6:02)

The deadline is ticking towards the end of the ceasefire between the US And Iran.

Michelle Martin (6:06)

Talks that the US had been expecting in Pakistan are now in question after the U.S. disabled and boarded a cargo ship, the Strait of Hormuz, and Iran said it retaliated.

Leela Fado (6:16)

For more, we go to NPR's Jane Araf in Amman, Jordan. Hi, Jane.

Jane Araf (6:20)

Hi, Lila.

Leela Fado (6:21)

Okay, so President Trump said Sunday that a U.S. delegation was headed to Pakistan for talks. What's the latest on the Iranian side?

Jane Araf (6:29)

Yeah, well, Iran never confirmed that the talks would take place, despite that announcement that the US Delegation was headed there. And this morning it made everything pretty clear. The Iranian state news agency quoted a senior official as saying, we have no plans for this next round of negotiations. So that U.S. seizure of the the vessel, the container ship, played into that, of course. And then there was the Iranian drone attack. In response to that, Iran said the US Was clearly not serious about negotiations. And especially after new threats by President Trump to bomb all power plants and bridges. It said all of this was intended to do what it called betray diplomacy.

Leela Fado (7:18)

Iran in this war has used access through that strategic waterway, the Strait of Hormuz, as leverage by restricting oil traffic. And then the US Said, well, we'll block it back. We're going to blockade ships to and from Iran. Tell us more about the situation there.

Jane Araf (7:33)

Yeah, well, this. Yesterday, the US Navy disabled and then boarded an Iranian flagged container ship. Iran said it had been heading from China to Iran. This morning, Iran called that action armed piracy and said it responded by firing drones at US Military warships. It gave no details, though. And the US Military did not respond to a request for confirmation on the reported drone attack. Iran said it would have responded further, but it was concerned over crew members and families that are apparently on that vessel.

Leela Fado (8:07)

Okay, so given all that you're describing here, what are the prospects for diplomacy?

Jane Araf (8:13)

Well, interestingly, Iran this morning also said that it's examining new US Proposals that it received in recent days. There's no word from the US on what those were, and Iran did not elaborate. But a senior Iranian national security official was quoted as saying regarding the talks that the US Must accept the new system in the Strait of Hormuz, that strategic waterway. And that new system is basically a structure of Tolls that Iran has tried to set up, which worked for a certain time in which it would allow transit through that strait that it controls, money were paid or if it aligned with its political interests. It also reiterated that a ceasefire in Lebanon is needed for any agreement to take place. And all of that, of course, is overshadowing the original US Reason for going to war, which was reportedly to stop Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Leela Fado (9:09)

You mentioned a ceasefire in Lebanon, which is another front we've been following Israel's invasion of Lebanon. What are the developments there?

Jane Araf (9:17)

Yeah, that's a very fragile ceasefire. Israeli forces moved into the south with more than a million displaced and more than 1,000 Lebanese, many of them civilians, killed in what Israel says is its campaign against Hezbollah. Israel says 16 of its soldiers have been killed. And this morning Israel warned displaced villagers not to return. It's important to remember, though, that most people have no homes to return to. Israel has been destroying villages there to create what it calls a buffer zone.

Leela Fado (9:46)

That's NPR's Jane Araf. And Amen. Thank. Thank you. This is the day a lot of US Businesses have been waiting for. They can finally ask the government to give back some of the $166 billion in tariffs that it collected illegally.

Michelle Martin (10:09)

Ever since the Supreme Court struck down those tariffs two months ago, importers have been wondering when they might get their money back. Customs officials have now set up an online system to process refund requests, and it is set to go.

Leela Fado (10:21)

NPR's Scott Horsley joins us now with the details. Good morning, Scott.

Scott Horsley (10:25)

Good morning, Lynn.

Leela Fado (10:26)

So $166 billion, that's a lot of money that has to be repaid. How is this going to work?

Scott Horsley (10:32)

Yeah, it could be a scramble. You know, there's some 330,000 businesses that were wrongly forced to pay those tariffs, and a lot of them are going to be at their keyboards this morning looking for refunds. People will liken this to trying to get tickets to a hot concert or sporting event. Jay Foreman runs a toy company that paid about $7 million in tariffs, and he is eager money back.

Jay Foreman (10:53)

I can tell you six people in our company will be having their hand on the trigger, and we'll push that button as soon as we see it.

Scott Horsley (11:00)

The process is supposed to be pretty straightforward, similar to what the Customs Service does routinely when, say, a company overpays a tariff by mistake. But Customs has never tried to repay this much money all at once.

Leela Fado (11:12)

Does the government have the bandwidth to handle all of these requests?

Scott Horsley (11:17)

We will see. Hopefully this will not be like the disastrous healthcare.gov rollout more than a dozen years ago. But there have been concerns. Even when the Supreme Court was hearing arguments in this case, Justice Amy Coney Barrett warned the refund process could be a mess. In fact, in its decision, the high court did not even weigh in on whether or how refunds should be repaid. It left that up to a specialty trade court. But the judge there, Richard Eaton, did not give the government any wiggle room.

Jay Foreman (11:43)

The law is clear. The duties were unlawful from the moment that they were imposed, and that means that every single cent of IPA duties must be returned to the import.

Scott Horsley (12:00)

IPA is the law the president relied on to impose these tariffs, but the Supreme Court said the law doesn't authorize that. Afterwards, Judge Eaton brushed aside arguments that tens of millions of tariff records would have to be manually reviewed. He said, we live in the age of computers, and after some initial foot dragging, the government has actually moved pretty quickly to set up this streamlined refund system.

Leela Fado (12:22)

So how long is it going to take for businesses to get their money back?

Scott Horsley (12:26)

Refunds are expected in 60 to 90 days. Now, some businesses with older and more complicated tariff situations are going to have to wait for a later phase to submit those requests, but most are eligible in this first batch. And Judge Eaton stressed that while there is some bureaucracy to navigate here, Customs knows how to do this.

Jay Foreman (12:43)

I believe that there will be no chaos associated with the provision of these refunds and that it will not result in a mess.

Scott Horsley (12:52)

Toy importer Jay Foreman is also cautiously optimistic. He figures there might be some computer glitches, but ultimately he is pretty confident his company will get the money as owed.

Jay Foreman (13:01)

The Supreme Court of the United States of America and the Court of International Trade have said these tariffs are illegal. The money was taken illegally and it needs to be refunded. And I firmly believe that will happen one way or another over time.

Scott Horsley (13:18)

By the way, after the Supreme Court struck down the president's emergency tariffs, the administration imposed new tariffs using a different law. Those are generally lower and they're also time limited. But those new tariffs are also being challenged in court, and Jay Forman is a part of that case.

Leela Fado (13:35)

NPR's Scott Horsley. Thank you, Scott, for your reporting.

Scott Horsley (13:37)

You're welcome.

Leela Fado (13:38)

Before you go, don't forget to tune into the Sunday story right here on up first, NPR education correspondent Cory Turner goes to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, to see how going all in on school choice is leaving some students behind. We've had two or three incidences where

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students start in another choice school in the city.

Tamara Keith (13:57)

I'm not gonna name names, but within

Leela Fado (13:58)

weeks, they're back at our school. Across the country, parents are taking their kids out of traditional public schools and opting for private or charter schools instead. I believe in the greater good, but my kids have to come first. For me, the greater good has to come second. Listen now to the Sunday story on the upverse podcast from npr. And that's up first for Monday, April 20th. I'm Laila Falden.

Michelle Martin (14:26)

And I'm Michelle Martin. Today's episode of up first was edited by Anna Yukananoff, Ruth Sherlock, Rafael Naam, Mohamed El Pardisi and Lindsay Todi. It was produced by Ziad Butch and Nia Dumas. Our director is Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Stacey Abbott. And our technical director is Carly Strange. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.

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NPR and the following message come from Washington wise decisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day. Washington Wise from Charles Schwab, is an original podcast that unpacks the stories making news in Washington. Listen@schwab.com WashingtonWise want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Up First Sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get npr@plus.npr.org that's plus.npr.org.