Ukraine Peace Negotiations, Trump's Ukraine Motivations, Holiday Travel

Summary

Up First (NPR) - Episode Summary

Date: November 26, 2025
Hosts: Steve Inskeep, Michelle Martin
Top Stories: Ukraine Peace Negotiations, Trump's Ukraine Motivations, Holiday Travel

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Episode Overview

This Up First episode covers the unfolding controversy around President Trump’s proposed Ukraine-Russia peace plan, the motivations and strategies behind Trump’s push for a deal, and the outlook for Thanksgiving holiday travel in the United States. The episode features reporting from NPR correspondents and experts, offering an inside look at the dynamics in Kyiv and Washington, as well as practical guidance for travelers heading to airports during one of the year's busiest periods.

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1. Ukraine Peace Negotiations

Main Discussion & Insights

• A leaked transcript has surfaced, revealing details about the origins and development of President Trump’s 28-point peace proposal for Russia and Ukraine ([00:02]).
• Trump has dispatched special envoys to Moscow and Kyiv with the aim of brokering a deal, sticking firmly to his campaign promise of ending the war quickly.
• The leak, as reported by Bloomberg (not independently confirmed by NPR), suggests Trump’s team may have encouraged Russia to praise Trump publicly and "manage" him for diplomatic advantage ([02:17]).
• The 28-point peace plan was initially viewed as heavily favoring Russia, leading to criticism from Ukrainian officials and calls for revisions ([02:51], [03:55]).

Ukrainian Perspective

• Oleksandr Morezhko, Chair of the Ukrainian Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee, expressed skepticism about Trump’s team, particularly envoy Steve Witkoff:
  • "We know that we're dealing with people in the entourage of President Trump who take pro Russian position, unfortunately, and we knew it long before that. But we have to deal with the team of President Trump no matter who they are." – Morezhko ([04:17])
• Morezhko maintains that Ukraine will engage with whomever represents the U.S. but prefers someone more qualified than Witkoff.

Russian Perspective

• Dmitriev, a top Russian advisor, is quoted as saying:
  • "I don't think they'll take exactly our version, but at least it'll be as close to it as possible." ([03:15])
• Russian officials have dismissed the leaks as fake or as attempts to hinder U.S.-Russia relations ([05:27]).

White House & U.S. Position

• Trump characterized the leak as standard negotiating tactics and did not address growing concerns about possible pro-Russian sympathies among his team:
  • "I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiation." – Trump ([04:40])
• Trump is said to be highly motivated to achieve a deal for legacy purposes, showing more interest in finalizing a peace agreement than in its content ([07:53]).

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2. Trump’s Ukraine Motivations

Key Points & Analysis

• White House correspondent Franco Ordonez notes that the administration has shifted the peace plan back and forth between Russian and Ukrainian preferences ([06:13]).
• There is skepticism that U.S. mediation can succeed when Ukraine and Russia fundamentally disagree on key issues.
  • As Ivo Daalder (former U.S. Ambassador to NATO) explained:
    • "The problem is Ukraine and Russia don't agree. So you can come up with any plan that the US and Russia can agree on, and any plan that the US and Ukraine can agree on. That's not the same as having a plan that Ukraine and Russia can agree on, and that's their problem." ([07:06])
• Trump backed off a Thanksgiving deadline to end the war, indicating his determination to reach a deal, regardless of specifics ([07:35]).
• Richard Fontaine (Center for a New American Security) highlights Trump's focus on securing a peace deal above all else:
  • "Trump clearly wants a deal. I don't know that the content of the deal matters all that much to him. As long as it stops the fight." ([07:53])

Motivation & Legacy

• Trump’s repeated references to his previous peace deals and his aspiration for a Nobel Peace Prize come up as possible motivators, as Franco Ordonez points out ([08:42]).
• Analysts agree that while Trump talks about humanitarian concerns, his drive for recognition is a strong factor.

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3. Holiday Travel Outlook

Trends & Advice

• The FAA forecasts the busiest Thanksgiving in over 15 years, with over 52,000 flights on peak days ([09:32]).
• Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy leads a new "civility campaign" urging travelers to act respectfully and responsibly.
  • "It's my responsibility to behave well. I can't offload that to anybody else." – Secretary Duffy ([09:43])
• The Department of Transportation's campaign encourages better treatment of airline staff and fellow passengers but faces criticism for shifting the burden of civility entirely onto travelers rather than airlines ([10:19]).
• Airlines and airports are prepared, with air traffic control staffing back to pre-shutdown levels. Despite staffing struggles during the recent government shutdown, flight reductions have been lifted ([11:49]).

Air Traffic Controller Morale

• Only 311 out of 10,000+ air traffic controllers will receive a $10,000 bonus for their work during the shutdown, causing some resentment among those not selected ([12:16]).

Notable Quote: - "The administration's critics note that this campaign is putting a lot of pressure on passengers while seemingly letting airlines off the hook for their part in making flying less civil." – Joel Rose ([10:19])

Travel Volume

• About 6 million people are expected to fly in the week around Thanksgiving, though actual numbers may be slightly lower due to recent scheduling disruptions.

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4. Selected Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We know that we're dealing with people in the entourage of President Trump who take pro Russian position, unfortunately, and we knew it long before that." – Oleksandr Morezhko ([04:17])
• "I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiation." – President Trump ([04:40])
• "That's not the same as having a plan that Ukraine and Russia can agree on, and that's their problem." – Ivo Daalder ([07:06])
• "Trump clearly wants a deal. I don't know that the content of the deal matters all that much to him. As long as it stops the fight." – Richard Fontaine ([07:53])
• "It's my responsibility to behave well. I can't offload that to anybody else." – Secretary Sean Duffy ([09:43])

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5. Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02–02:17: Origins and details of Trump's Ukraine-Russia peace plan leak
• 02:42–05:39: Reactions from Kyiv and Moscow; expert commentary
• 05:40–09:16: White House motivation, negotiation strategies, Trump’s aspirations
• 09:26–13:00: Thanksgiving travel surge, government shutdown impact, DOT’s civility campaign
• 12:16–12:47: Air traffic controller morale and bonuses

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Summary Takeaway

This episode gives listeners a nuanced understanding of the latest twists in Ukraine peace negotiations, delves into the motivations behind Trump's diplomatic efforts, and provides timely advice and analysis on what to expect for Thanksgiving travel. Drawing on expert voices and on-the-ground reporting, Up First delivers context, key insights, and memorable quotes for anyone who wants to stay informed on the day’s most pressing developments.

Transcript

[Steve Inskeep]

A leaked transcript details how President Trump's 28 point peace proposal came about.

[Michelle Martin]

Trump himself dismissed the leak, saying it shows standard negotiating tactics. What does this mean for the latest attempt to end the fighting in Ukraine?

[Steve Inskeep]

I'm Steve Inskeep with Michelle Martin and this is up first from NPR News. The president is sending his aides to Moscow and Kyiv to broker a deal. I think we're getting very close to a deal. He campaigned on ending the war within 24 hours. He's now thought to care more about reaching a deal than what's in it. So what is the view from the White House?

[Michelle Martin]

And millions of Americans will take to the skies this week. The FAA says this year's Thanksgiving could be the busiest in more than a decade. So what can you expect when you head to the airport? Stay with us. We'll give you news you need to start your day.

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[Oleksandr Morezhko]

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[Michelle Martin]

A day ago, President Trump's latest Russia, Ukraine peace plan appeared to be making headway, with Secretary of State Marco Rubio praising it and special Envoy Steve Witkoff planning a visit to Moscow.

[Steve Inskeep]

And then we learned something about the process leading to this moment. Bloomberg published a transcript of a phone call between Steve Witkoff and an advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin. The news service says it listened to a recording and made that transcript. NPR has not independently confirmed it, but lots of people are now talking about it. It gives insight into How Witkoff encouraged Russia to manage President Trump and includes a suggestion to develop a peace plan.

[Michelle Martin]

We're going to Go now to NPR's Eleanor Beardsley, who is following all this from Ukraine's capital, Kyiv. Good morning, Eleanor.

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Good morning, Michelle.

[Michelle Martin]

So when did this call happen and who was on it?

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Well, it took place in mid October. It was between envoy Steve Witkoff and Yuri Ushakov, who's an advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin. And it was right after Trump sanctioned Russia's two big oil companies. And Witkoff is right off his success in the Middle east and suggests there could be a similar deal between Russia and Ukraine. And he encourages Ushakov to get Putin to call Trump, praise his Mideast peace deal and flatter him. Witkoff also mentions Zelensky is coming to the White House soon. He suggests a call with the Russians beforehand. And we know now, Michel, that that call from Putin the day before Zelensky's arrival ended any hope Ukrainians had of Tomahawk missiles. And Michelle, there's a second recording and transcript of Ushakov with fellow Russian Kirill Dmitriev, Putin's economic adviser. Talk about that 28 point US Russian peace plan from last week that was seen as favoring Russia and has now been heavily amended. It seems it was a Russian plan after all, pushed by these two men, though we cannot confirm that the Trump administration did not make changes. But in the call, economic adviser Dmitriev even says, according to Bloomberg, quote, I don't think they'll take exactly our version, but at least it'll be as close to it as possible.

[Michelle Martin]

As close to it as possible. Okay, so how, how are Ukrainians taking this in?

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Well, I spoke with Ukrainian parliament member and chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, Oleksandr Morezhko. He actually called for Wyckoff to be replaced six months ago because what he says is his incompetence and complete lack of knowledge of Ukraine and the origins of the war. So he's not surprised about the latest. Let's listen.

[Oleksandr Morezhko]

We know that we're dealing with people in the entourage of President Trump who take pro Russian position, unfortunately, and we knew it long before that. But we have to deal with the team of President Trump no matter who they are.

[Michelle Martin]

And what does President Trump have to say about this?

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Well, on Air Force One, Trump didn't address concerns that Wyckoff may be pro Russian, but he brushed off concerns about his methods.

[Steve Inskeep]

I haven't heard it, but I heard it was standard negotiation. And I would imagine he's saying the.

[Oleksandr Morezhko]

Same thing to Ukraine because each party.

[Franco Ordonez]

Has to give or take, you know.

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Trump's reaction shocked Maresko more. He believes Trump should remove Wyckoff because he says he is discrediting his administration and the US in the eyes of the world.

[Michelle Martin]

So do you have a sense of, I know this, is this just news, just broke, but is there any sense of how these revelations might affect this negotiation? Could it derail things?

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Well, Morezhko says not on the Ukrainian side, but he says Putin will reject any peace plan that lets Ukraine survive as a sovereign state. Here he is again.

[Oleksandr Morezhko]

He thinks that he is winning and he cannot stop because any peace might cause domestic problems for him. He believes that he might lose power because of that.

[Eleanor Beardsley]

Now Putin envoy Dmitriev calls the Bloomberg leaks fake, while another Russian official said they were leaked to, quote, hinder U.S. russia relations.

[Michelle Martin]

That is Eleanor Beardsley for NPR in Kyiv. Eleanor, thank you so much.

[Eleanor Beardsley]

You're welcome.

[Michelle Martin]

President Trump is focused on ending the war in Ukraine. He's sending representatives to both Moscow and Kyiv to work out differences in his latest plan.

[Steve Inskeep]

I think we're getting very close to a deal. We'll find out. The president has not met his deadline of ending the war on the first day, but he keeps trying in different ways.

[Michelle Martin]

NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez is here to talk about why Trump continues to push even after all these setbacks. Franco, good morning.

[Franco Ordonez]

Good morning, Michelle.

[Michelle Martin]

So the original 28 point plan was widely criticized as a wish list by the Russians, as we just said. Now the administration says it's updated. Where do things stand now?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, the Trump administration really has been furiously negotiating with both sides, you know, bouncing between a Russia friendly version and a now a more Ukraine friendly run. Trump now says that there are only a few remaining points of disagreement. And as you noted, he said last night that he's dispatching his special envoy, Steve Witkoff and maybe even his son in law to Moscow to meet with President Putin. And then he's sending Army Secretary Driscoll to meet with the Ukrainians.

[Michelle Martin]

But you know, Frankr, we've been here before. Do we have a sense of whether this is really progress?

[Franco Ordonez]

Yeah, I mean, talks are happening and ideas are being exchanged. That's something. I mean, it's more than what was happening a few weeks ago. But are they closer to reaching a deal? I mean, not necessarily. I mean, I was talking with Ivo Daalder who was the ambassador to NATO in the Obama administration, and he says basically last week you had Russia agreeing to one plan and now you have Ukraine agreeing to a different plan.

[Oleksandr Morezhko]

The problem is Ukraine and Russia don't agree. So you can come up with any plan that the US And Russia can agree on, and any plan that the US And Ukraine can agree on. That's not the same as having a plan that Ukraine and Russia can agree on, and that's their problem.

[Michelle Martin]

Last week, President Trump seemed to set this take it or leave it deadline for Thanksgiving, but he did back off that over the weekend. What does that tell you about his motivations?

[Franco Ordonez]

Well, I mean, it's another example of how driven Trump is to just get to, yes, in any way possible. Richard Fontaine served in the George W. Bush White House and now runs the center for New American Security. And he told me that what matters to Ukraine and Russia doesn't so much matter to Trump.

[Oleksandr Morezhko]

Trump clearly wants a deal. I don't know that the content of the deal matters all that much to him. As long as it stops the fight. That therefore gives a lot of leeway to those negotiating what the terms of that deal are. And of course, for Ukraine and for the Russians and for the Europeans, and for many people, the terms are all important.

[Franco Ordonez]

Terms are very important. And that's why Russia wants more of the eastern Donbas region, for strategic and economic benefits. And it's also why Ukraine wants clear security guarantees from Western partners like the US to ensure that Russia never invades again.

[Michelle Martin]

You know, people might remember that Trump talks a lot about the conflicts that he says he has ended. He did that yesterday during the Thanksgiving turkey pardons. How much of this is about his quest for the Nobel Peace Prize?

[Franco Ordonez]

Look, I mean, I think he genuinely cares about the loss of life. It's something he frequently mentions when talking about the war. But I don't think you can discount his desire for recognition. I mean, he talks about the Nobel Peace Prize a lot. His aides talk about it as well. And Dalder and Fontaine both told me that Trump is likely looking at his legacy. And as any president would. I mean, what better way to be seen as the ultimate dealmaker than solving.

[Michelle Martin]

This intractable war that is White House correspondent Franco Ardenos. Franco, thank you.

[Franco Ordonez]

Thank you, Michelle.

[Steve Inskeep]

Americans are going to be on the move for the Thanksgiving holiday, and that includes millions who will fly to visit family and friends.

[Michelle Martin]

Federal regulators say the US Aviation system is back to normal after the government shutdown. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is urging travelers to be on their best behavior as they head to the airport.

[Steve Inskeep]

It's my responsibility to behave well. I can't offload that to anybody else.

[Oleksandr Morezhko]

It's me and how am I going.

[Steve Inskeep]

To behave, how I'm going to have my kids behave as we travel together, how I dress? I'm not trying to put a blame on anybody. I'm just asking us all to be better and do better. These remarks prompted a lot of reactions. So we've called NPR transportation correspondent Joel Rose. Joel, good morning.

[Joel Rose]

Hi, Steve.

[Steve Inskeep]

Are you dressed well for this interview?

[Joel Rose]

This is radio. Steve, I don't have to answer.

[Steve Inskeep]

Okay, fine, fine. We'll just assume, we'll imagine. What is the transportation secretary asking here?

[Joel Rose]

Yeah, this is what the Department of Transportation is calling a civility campaign, which it has dubbed, quote, the golden age of travel starts with you. Secretary Duffy is encouraging travelers to treat airport and airline staff with respect, to dress better, as you noted, and to show more courtesy to other passengers as well. The timing on this is a little bit puzzling. There was a big uptick in episodes of unruly passengers during the COVID pandemic. But those numbers have come down a lot since then. And the administration's critics note that this campaign is putting a lot of pressure on passengers while seemingly letting airlines off the hook for their part in making flying less civil. And some critics have noted the Trump administration is simultaneously rolling back rules about how airlines have to treat passengers.

[Steve Inskeep]

Well, if I'm heading to the airport, what should I expect today?

[Joel Rose]

I would look for big crowds. The Federal Aviation Administration says this could be the busiest Thanksgiving in 15 years, with a peak of more than 52,000 scheduled flights yesterday alone. AAA says about 6 million people are expected to fly in the week before and after the holiday, though AAA also cautions that number could wind up slightly lower if some air travelers made other plans because of the flight disruptions that happened during the government shutdown. There are indications that advanced bookings this year are down a bit compared to last year, off by about 4%, according to data from the aviation analytics company Cerium, which suggests that maybe demand is not quite where the airlines expected it would be coming out of the shutdown. But, you know, in any case, you should expect the airports to be very busy.

[Steve Inskeep]

Is the system ready?

[Joel Rose]

The FAA says yes. I mean, the agency says air traffic controller staffing is back to normal levels. Those controllers, of course, were required to work without pay during the shutdown. Some took on second jobs and many called out sick. That led to staffing shortages at many facilities, and it eventually pushed the FAA to order flight reductions at dozens of major airports, though those limits are now lifted.

[Steve Inskeep]

How can we measure the morale of air traffic controllers after they went so many weeks without being paid?

[Joel Rose]

It's an interesting question. The Department of Transportation has said it will give $10,000 bonuses to air traffic controllers who did not miss a single shift during the 43 day shutdown, a proposal originally suggested by President Trump. But only a small fraction of working air traffic controllers will qualify. Just 311 controllers out of more than 10,000 will get the cash bonuses, according to the controllers union. And that's causing some resentment among those who did not qualify. Some have called the bonuses unfair and even a betrayal of those who did a lot of hard work during the shutdown.

[Steve Inskeep]

NPR's Joel Rose, who will be among the millions flying today. Joel, where are you headed?

[Joel Rose]

New Orleans, Louisiana.

[Steve Inskeep]

Oh, wow. Sounds great. Enjoy. Take it easy.

[Joel Rose]

You too.

[Michelle Martin]

And that's up first for Wednesday, November 26th. I'm Michelle Martin.

[Steve Inskeep]

And I'm Steve Inskeep. Thanks for joining us this morning. Your NPR station makes up first possible each day, and you can support their work and ours beginning by going to donate.NPR.org UpFirst Today's episode of Up first.

[Michelle Martin]

Was edited by Kate Bartlett, Rebecca Metzler, Russell Lewis, H.J. mai and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Budge, Nia Dumas and Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Van Genhoven, and our technical director is Carly Strange. Our supervising producer is Michael Lipkin. We hope you'll join us again tomorrow.

[Steve Inskeep]

Yeah, you can listen while you you're doing your early round of cooking.

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