Jen Chavez (2:11)

one sponsor of terror, which they are by far, to have a nuclear weapon. Can't let that happen.

Michelle Martin (2:17)

That was the president at his State of the Union address earlier this week. Talks between the two are supposed to continue next week.

Emmy Martinez (2:24)

NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordonez has been following the president's rhetoric about Iran. So, Franco, what has to happen from Iran's point of view in order for the US not to attack it?

Franco Ordonez (2:35)

You know, the thing a is Trump hasn't really explained what his objectives are. I mean, what does success look like? He also hasn't asked Congress for authorization or taken the opportunity to thoroughly explain to the American people.

Emmy Martinez (2:47)

His reasoning okay, so what has he said?

Franco Ordonez (2:50)

Well, in his speech, President Trump touched on a few different reasons. I mean, first was stopping the nuke. Second is helping protesters who he promised to back if more were killed. Well, tens of thousands more have been killed. You know, then there is the stopping of the ballistic missile program that he claims are almost able to reach the

Emmy Martinez (3:09)

US what about regime change?

Franco Ordonez (3:12)

Yeah, I mean, that's another possible reason. And, you know, I mean, we should be clear that Trump is not the first president to deal with this Iran issue. I mean, former President Obama was widely criticized for the nuclear deal that he reached. Many saw it weak and actually empowering of Iran economically. During the George W. Bush years, Iran accelerated its nuclear program. Bush, of course, labeled Iran part of its axis of evil. This has really been an issue since the revolution in 1979. Iran had been a modern society, and the government was actually an ally to the U.S. the regime, though, that took over was largely built in opposition to the US and to Israel.

Emmy Martinez (3:55)

All right, so then what exactly are the options? And actually, what kind of timeline are we talking about now?

Franco Ordonez (4:00)

I mean, it seems focused on two likely sets of targets. One would be, you know, limited strikes, perhaps against Iran's ballistic missile program or nuclear targets or leadership, maybe. A second could be something bigger, a longer campaign aimed at destabilizing or possibly overthrowing the regime. Matthew Kroenig, who worked on the Iranian file at the Pentagon, he told me the administration will want to consider Iran's response, noting that Iran's response last time was limited because they knew or probably knew that the US had limited aims.

Emmy Martinez (4:33)

If I were advising the president and he were determined to follow through on the red line and use force, I would advocate for a more limited strike and communicate to the regime that this is just a limited strike to try to induce them to engage in token retaliation and hope that the conflict can deescalate. All right, so how soon could all of this happen?

Franco Ordonez (4:54)

Yeah, it could be very soon. The US now has a massive military presence in the Middle east, the largest since the run up to the Iraq War. The US Held a third round of negotiations with Iranian officials in Geneva Thursday, as he noted, and what observers say may be the last chance to prevent a war. I mean, clearly, those meetings are very important. Now, US Officials are not saying these meetings are decisive, but they're also expressing a lot of frustration about progress on nuclear talks or lack of progress, but also for the fact that Iran refuses to negotiate on ballistic missiles. And they say that's a, quote, big, big problem.

Emmy Martinez (5:29)

That's White House correspondent Franco Ordonez. Thanks a lot.

Franco Ordonez (5:32)

Thanks, Abe.

Emmy Martinez (5:33)

And for the latest developments between the US And Iran, hit the follow button so you'll get up first, delivered straight to your phone. Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton spent more than six hours in a closed door deposition in front of the House Oversight Committee on Thursday.

Michelle Martin (5:55)

The Republican led committee subpoenaed Hillary Clinton and former President Bill Clinton as part of their investigation into the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The Clintons initially resisted testifying, then agreed after being threatened with contempt of Congress. Hillary Clinton has said she did not know Epstein and repeated that to the committee. Former President Bill Clinton, who was friends with Epstein, appeared in the files a number of times, including in photos with Epstein. He is set to answer questions today.

Emmy Martinez (6:22)

NPR Sage Miller joins us to break this all down. So Sage, I mentioned how the meeting was behind closed doors, yet there's a lot of information about it that's out in the open.

Sage Miller (6:32)

Yeah, there definitely is. And I will say the Clintons pushed for public depositions, but the committee ultimately rejected that request. Hillary Clinton and the committee did say that they want the video and the transcript shared as soon as possible, though. Until then we only have what they told us. So I'll start with what Clinton had to say. Afterwards. Speaking to the press, she reiterated that the hearing should have been open for from the get go.

Jen Chavez (6:57)

It was disappointing that they refused to hold a public hearing so I wouldn't have to be out here characterizing it for you. You could have seen it for yourself.

Sage Miller (7:08)

But Clinton said she wouldn't do this again even if it was public. She described the line of questioning as repetitive.

Jen Chavez (7:16)

I don't know how many times I had to say I did not know Jeffrey Epstein. I never went to his island. I never went to his homes. I never went to his offices.

Sage Miller (7:27)

By the end of the deposition, Clinton said the committee members started asking off topic questions about UFOs and the Pizzagate conspiracy theory, which falsely claimed some high profile Democrats were involved in a child sex trafficking ring.

Emmy Martinez (7:40)

And Sage, not to belabor the point, but was there supposed to be a picture showing what was happening behind those closed doors?

Sage Miller (7:48)

Well, the agreed upon rules said no photos, but but at one point soon after it started, the committee paused the deposition. That's because a conservative commentator, Benny Johnson, posted a photo on social media of Clinton inside the room where the hearing was taking place sent by Republican committee member Lauren Boebert. The hearing resumed shortly after, but Clinton did say it was very upsetting that one of the members violated the rules. Reporters later asked Bober why she sent the photo. She answered, why not?

Emmy Martinez (8:19)

Okay, so how did the members of the committee feel that the deposition went?

Sage Miller (8:22)

So we only heard from Republicans after the hearing. While committee chair Republican James Comer of Kentucky said it was a productive hearing, he did have some gripes. Here's what he told reporters.

Jen Chavez (8:34)

There were a lot of questions that we asked that we, you know, weren't

Franco Ordonez (8:37)

satisfied with the answers that we that we got. But we will continue to move forward.

Sage Miller (8:42)

Comer did say Clinton answered nearly every question the committee asked, even when the answer was this.

Franco Ordonez (8:49)

The number of times that she said,

Jen Chavez (8:51)

I don't know, you'll have to ask my husband was more than a dozen.

Emmy Martinez (8:54)

All right, so then to that point, did Hillary Clinton or the committee give any insight into what her husband Bill Clinton's testimony will sound like?

Sage Miller (9:03)

Just a little bit. Hillary Clinton said her husband will likely talk about how his relationship with Epstein ended several years before Epstein's criminal history came to light. And Comer said the committee has a lot of questions for Bill Clinton and he's sure today's deposition will last even longer than Hillary.

Emmy Martinez (9:21)

All right. That's NPR's Sage Miller. Sage, thanks a lot.

Sage Miller (9:24)

Thank you.

Emmy Martinez (9:31)

There is a winner in the epic Hollywood bidding war for Warner Bros. Discovery, and that winner is David Ellison, the CEO of Paramount.

Michelle Martin (9:39)

In a stunning turnaround, Warner Brothers Discovery dropped a deal it had already struck with the streaming giant Netflix for an improved offer from Paramount. And Netflix walked away.

Emmy Martinez (9:48)

NPR media correspondent David Folkenflick is reporting on this. David, Warner Brothers rejected a lot of offers for Paramount. And what happened?

Jen Chavez (9:56)

Well, Warner Brothers originally didn't want Paramount to be bid at all. Paramount triggered all of this by saying, we want to take you guys over. And that opened this up. And it struck a deal with Netflix, which the Warner Brothers board and the Warner Brothers leadership vastly preferred, at least initially. Netflix had said, we'll give you a deal valued at $83 billion and take over your streaming assets, your studios, your intellectual property like DC Studios, Harry Potter and the like, and will spin off your cable channels. Paramount wanted the whole enchilada, the whole magilla, and ultimately sweetened its deal to a value in excess of about $111 billion. And yesterday, Warner Brothers Discovery's board said, you know what? That's a better deal. Netflix had four business days to try to top it. Instead, it walked away. It was spooking investors and said, we don't really need it that badly. We're a giant streamer. We'll do fine.

Emmy Martinez (10:43)

111 billion. That is one meaty enchilada. So what would Paramount look like now after swallowing Warner Brothers Discover?

Jen Chavez (10:51)

Well, think about it. This would be a Hollywood behemoth. You'd have Warner Brothers Studios and Paramount Studios under the same roof. You'd have Paramount, the streaming property, which is a bit on the smaller side, paired with HBO Max, one of the dominant streamers coming from Hollywood. You'd have CBS and CBS News with CNN and Comedy Central and Discovery and TBS and a bunch of other properties showing a lot of entertainment and sports. This is going to be a major player in Hollywood intended to take on the streamers, not just Netflix, but also Amazon prime and Apple, to have a major force to walk into the future of streaming.

Emmy Martinez (11:31)

Yeah. Now, this still has to go through review by antitrust regulators. So what happens with that?

Jen Chavez (11:37)

Well, it's gotta go through review from the US Justice Department given its combination of enormous media and entertainment assets, but it's also gotta go through regulation in Europe. And, you know, those are not the only ones involved. The state Attorney general of California said he intends not only to review this, but potentially to sue to block this. And there are other interested parties that could weigh in here. So this is usually a very intense and significant scrutiny going on here. And at the same time, you know, we live in a slightly different age.

Emmy Martinez (12:06)

So, David, you mentioned that if this deal closes, Paramount gets to add CNN to what it's getting. It was pretty wild to watch Jake Tapper break this news Thursday on his show on cnn. So we have some breaking news internationally that affects everybody.

Jen Chavez (12:22)

I'm looking at right now in the studio moments ago.

Emmy Martinez (12:25)

Netflix. Yeah. So, David, what changes might David Ellison make to cnn?

Jen Chavez (12:31)

Well, look, the Ellison's David Ellison and his father, Oracle co founder Larry Ellison, are very close to President Trump. President Trump has made clear he cares very much about what happens to cnn. You've seen the owners of the LA Times, the Washington Post and the Ellisons themselves at CBS alter and reconfigure their news properties to placate Trump and his allies in the current moment. And Trump has shown he's willing to interfere with corporate maneuvering like the one we're seeing play out right now.

Emmy Martinez (12:56)

All right, that's NPR's David Folkenflake. David, thanks.

Jen Chavez (12:58)

You bet.

Emmy Martinez (12:59)

And before we go, don't forget to tune in this weekend to the Upverse Sunday story. With the rise of prediction markets, you can bet on pretty much anything from the weather to what President Trump will say at his next press conference. I'm not a fan of Trump, though

Sage Miller (13:13)

I do spend most of my day listening to him and tracking what he's doing.

Emmy Martinez (13:17)

NPR's Bobby Allen joins us to explain why prediction markets have suddenly exploded in popularity and who is winning and losing. Listen to the Sunday Story right here on NPR's About first podcast. And that's up first for Friday, February 27th. I'm Emmy Martinez.

Michelle Martin (13:35)

And I'm Michelle Martin. Today's episode of up first was edited by Rebecca Metzler, Megan Pratt, Jerry Holmes, Mohamed El Bardisi and Alice Wolfley. It was produced by Ziad Butch and Nia Dumas. Our director is Christopher Thomas. We get engineering support from Misha Hynes. Our technical director is Carly Strange, and our executive producer is Jay Shaylor. We hope you'll join us again on Monday.

Sponsor Announcer (14:12)

Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to up first sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get up first plus@plus.NPR.org that's plus.NPR.org Evergreen trees are Pacific Northwest icons in journalism.

Sage Miller (14:33)

An evergreen story isn't tied to one news cycle.

Sponsor Announcer (14:36)

It goes deep and helps you understand the world. The Evergreen is also a podcast from

Sage Miller (14:41)

OPB about the Northwest.

Jen Chavez (14:43)

I'm Jen Chavez.

Sage Miller (14:44)

Listen to the Evergreen podcast from OPB every Monday, part of the NPR Network.

Emmy Martinez (14:50)

This is Ira Glass. On this American Life.

Franco Ordonez (14:52)

We look for stories that are surprising

Emmy Martinez (14:54)

that you won't hear anywhere else, like,

Michelle Martin (14:56)

for example, this one, Astronau. He went to the moon.

Jen Chavez (14:59)

You know what? He's not into space.

Emmy Martinez (15:02)

Was it cool to float around weightless?

Jen Chavez (15:04)

No, no, no.

Emmy Martinez (15:08)

This American Life unexpected stories. Wherever you get your podcasts.