A (3:15)

Thanks for having me. Aisha, happy Mother's Day to you.

B (3:19)

Thank you. Happy. Are you a mom?

A (3:21)

Yes, I am.

B (3:22)

So happy. Mother's Day to you. Yes, thank you. Hopefully we getting some rest today.

A (3:30)

Exactly.

B (3:32)

You know, it's interesting that you are reporting on this topic because single motherhood for a long time in this country has carried stigma and shame.

A (3:47)

Yeah. I mean, until recently, I think the stereotype was of a woman, often very young, who was trapped into motherhood because of poverty, abandonment, abuse, you name it. But Aisha, there's government data now that suggests single motherhood today looks very different from those old stereotypes.

B (4:07)

So what does single motherhood look like now?

A (4:11)

So let me start with a couple of stats. These days, around 40% of American kids are born to unmarried mothers, and that's up from 5% in 1960. So a huge jump. Second stat, unmarried women over the age of 30. That's the fastest growing group of single parents in this country. And, you know, this is a time when we know overall birth rates are declining. So as a business editor, I was really interested in exploring this completely contradictory phenomenon. You know, what motivates these women. So, you know, Aisha, I've been on this journey and it's been so eye opening.

B (4:54)

I can't wait to hear more about that journey and talking to all of these moms. But I have to ask you, like me, what was one of your big takeaways from this reporting?

A (5:07)

Well, Aisha, there have been so many takeaways. The biggest one, however, is that these women are turning the single mom narrative on its head. In the past, it was something to be ashamed of, a stigma. But today, for a lot of women I spoke to, it is something to be proud of. They're not ashamed. They actually want it. Think about it. When you become a mom at 30 or older, you've lived a little, worked a few years and have some stability. So a lot of these women that I've talked to, they have their lives together. You know, they can do it themselves.

B (5:48)

I mean, certainly, you know, I can relate to that. I'm living my own, you know, little journey As a single mom with my best friend and our Brady Bunch house together with our kids. So I definitely get charting your own path. So tell me some of their stories.

A (6:06)

Let me start with one woman I met. Her name is Stephanie Gobler. She's 43. She lives in Roswell outside of Atlanta, Georgia. And she told me when she was younger she was this hyper driven woman, you know, in her career as an architect and as an extreme athlete, she competed in triathlons, marathons, Ironman, you name it, I was all in.

B (6:29)

Work hard, play hard.

A (6:31)

It was go, go, go. But she always wanted a family. You know, the usual. A husband, two kids. Fast forward to today.

B (6:39)

Did you see that hand? It was my hand.

A (6:44)

This is Caleb. He's five.

B (6:48)

Bye. Bye.

A (6:50)

That's Evan, almost two. They're playing in the front yard of Gobler's four bedroom house. So she got her family, but there's no husband in the picture. Her journey started after a breakup with a long term boyfriend. She wanted kids, he didn't. Her first aha moment, though, came when she was hanging out with her girlfriends, playing a game around the fire pit, asking one question. If you had to choose one thing and only one thing, you had to

B (7:20)

either choose marriage or motherhood.

A (7:22)

And I just blurted out motherhood. And then she had a second aha moment. And that came soon after.

B (7:27)

I just started googling, you know, single mom by yourself.

A (7:30)

And suddenly these single moms by choice

B (7:34)

forums start popping up.

A (7:36)

And that's when it dawned on her. You know, she realized she didn't need a boyfriend or a partner or frankly even a man or a husband to have that family that she wanted badly. Immediately after that, she started looking for a sperm donor. And that's how she had Caleb and Evan. And today, you know, that extreme athlete, she is busy running around chasing her two boisterous boys.

B (7:59)

Snap. I was an adrenaline junkie, I think, doing the next race, skydiving, traveling solo, always on the go.

A (8:08)

Whatever that was I was searching for, I had found in motherhood.

B (8:12)

It really sounds like Stephanie Gobler's story is that she felt like she had agency and so she decided to exercise it.

A (8:22)

That's right, Aisha. You know, many of these women I spoke to said making this choice to have children on their own also helped them get it together. You know, you can't return a baby to a store. They know that. It is such a big step. So there's an intentionality and a thoughtfulness that they bring to their motherhood. That has been so striking to me. You know, all Parents need to really get it together. But it's even more so for parents on their own.

B (8:50)

I mean, you don't have any choice. You know, that's what people sometimes will ask you, like, how do you do it? Well, I don't have no choice. What choice do you have? Right? The baby gotta eat, so you gotta get out there. They gotta. They need what they need, so you gotta keep it moving. And it's nobody else. It's you.

A (9:11)

That's so true. Another mom I talked to, her name is Adrienne Rumley. She says that, you know, she was in her mid-30s, and she was kind of drifting, and then she got pregnant with her daughter.

B (9:23)

It's just me and her.

A (9:25)

Lorelai is now two years old. Ramlee told me she got pregnant with a new boyfriend she barely knew. He didn't want the baby, so he offered to pay for an abortion.

B (9:34)

No, no, no, no. That's not what I wanted to do.

A (9:37)

After that interaction, he hung up and blocked her. But, you know, that didn't stop Ramlee. She saw the pregnancy as an opportunity to start her own family. You know, Aisha, this is a moment when the definition of family is part of the culture wars. I've spoken to women who have had to navigate their very conservative Christian families who disapprove of them choosing to raise a family on their own. In Ramli's case, she decides not to have an abortion. But a single mom raising her own kid is one. Probably not exactly some people's definition of a wholesome family either. But Adrienne Rumley, she goes for it. You know, all that drifting that goes out the window. She gets a secure job, and here's how she talks about the moment when Lorelai is born.

B (10:30)

She locked eyes with me, and that was the moment that I knew we were about to have one hell of a life together.

A (10:35)

Adrienne Rumley is now 38. She's an assistant manager at a vets clinic in Winchester, Virginia, and she's loving motherhood.

B (10:43)

Hearing these stories and bringing up the culture wars, I know that single parenthood has been pointed to as a problem to be solved, right? So it's interesting that even in these cases where the woman is deciding to keep the baby, it's still looked at in many ways as, like, this is an issue that must be solved, right? Like, this is. This is a problem. And yet these women are making the choice to be single mothers, knowing that they may be judged, but also that it's really hard to do it on your own. I mean, I Always say raising kids takes like five or six people at least, at bare minimum. Um, but to do it without even the partner is so hard.

A (11:36)

So true. I mean, she's so excited about it, but she's still one parent, one pair of hands, one income.

B (11:43)

There is not that second person with you to maybe let you take a break if you just need five minutes to go take a shower.

A (11:52)

I mentioned to you, Aisha, how a lot of the single moms, you know, I met are really intentional. And Ramlee is one of the best examples of that. She's a 21st century mom. She has this ongoing conversation with ChatGPT on how to handle all kinds of situations that pop up. She's very thoughtful about the choices that

B (12:10)

she makes listening to that. And yes, you are pouring into the child, but how is she pouring into herself as an adult woman who has more than interest than probably, you know, Bluey. Right?

A (12:30)

So true, so true. I mean, you know, she's a runner, so she's part of a running club and she's starting to date. You know, she kind of views the dating a little differently though, now that she's a parent and as a single mom, I mean, you can relate to this. Her availability is really limited. She might get a babysitter, say on a Tuesday from 5 to 9pm that's the window she has. Are you free then?

B (12:55)

You know, it's a mess trying to date and you got these kids. It's like you have a curfew. It's like you're a kid. Like, I can be out until midnight, then I have to go home. I have this one space of time. That's it. Then I have to go. I can't, I can't stay out. Can't do it. But does Adrienne Rumley, does she want to get married or to like have a long term partner maybe, you know,

A (13:24)

but she separates that part of her life. Ramlee is not looking for a second parent. Even when she goes on that rare date.

B (13:32)

It is not about, I wanna find a dad for Lorabi. It's more of like, I deserve connection with someone. And I would like to try to go find that. It's a different day. Cause I think back in the day you would bring the man home after like the second date, you know, Cause you're trying to find a husband. It's like, come on in, you know, here's Mr. Jim. But now it's like you wait a year. And I do relate to that idea of like, I'm not trying to find A dad, like, that's like, that's a whole other thing, right? You're trying to find someone who you could probably connect with as an adult.

A (14:09)

They're really sure of themselves. I mean, that is definitely a big theme.

B (14:13)

And so Rumley had her daughter in her mid-30s, but a lot of women in their 40s and 50s are also having children. And I want to hear about this because I'm in my 40s and I might want one more baby. I just want to know, like, how is that working? How they doing this?

A (14:33)

That's right. I mean, science has definitely given older women more options to become moms, primarily through IVF, especially if you're single. IVF is expensive. The cost can range from $15,000 to over $30,000. And then there is the very real drop in fertility for women over 40, when even IVF may not work. So the success rate is as low as 20% in some cases. But for those who can afford it and for whom it is successful, it can feel like a miracle. And that leads me to another statistic, Aisha, that I have to share with you. You know the number of unmarried women in their 40s and 50s who are having children, it's a small group, but it has risen 250% in the last 30 years. I'm going to let that sink in with you, Aisha. That growth is massive.

B (15:30)

I mean, 250%, like, that's huge.

A (15:34)

So obviously, you know, a lot of these women, it's a joyous experience to have a baby, but at that age, it can really take a toll on the body. Think about it. First you gotta get hormone injections to harvest eggs, and then you have to take more hormones to prepare your body to get pregnant through ivf. And then there's childbirth. I don't need to tell you, childbirth is never easy. And the thing is, even after you have your baby, there's more. One mom, she was in her late 40s and she told me that she didn't anticipate for it to be so physical, especially the first two years. There's a lot of carrying a child up and down the stairs and in and out of car seats. And she told me, you know, my knees hurt.

B (16:18)

Yeah, you got. And you. Your knees hurt. And then you also have to have a lot of upper body strength to carry that baby carrier, like, from place to place. It is super heavy. It's not. It's not easy at all.

A (16:32)

Yeah, yeah. The other thing is, when you choose to have a kid by yourself, sure, it's Empowering. But another thing that was surprising to me, people talked about the emotional toll that that decision takes. Aisha we talked about Stephanie Gobler. She decided to have her boys after a breakup. But there are a lot of other women I spoke to who went the same route. And they talked about the grieving that they go through when they decide to let go of that dream of having a family with another person and raising the kids together.

B (17:07)

Mm. Yeah, I could definitely see that being a process of letting go of what you thought things would be. Yeah.

A (17:17)

Let me share with you the story of Neelu Rehman. She's 41 and she lives right outside of Baltimore. She works at Johns Hopkins University.

B (17:26)

I'm a child life specialist. I work in the pediatric intensive care unit at Hopkins.

A (17:32)

She told me she had been in a long and serious relationship with a guy who didn't want children. Eventually, they broke up and she found a sperm donor. When she got pregnant, she felt really lucky and grateful, but there were also all these really conflicting emotions that she felt.

B (17:48)

I just remember feeling so, like, sad that I wasn't able to experience that, like, anticipation of these little beings coming into my life with somebody who was going to be equally as like much a part of their life or as excited as me.

A (18:08)

Yeah, those little beings, Aisha, she had twins, Cyrus and Layla, who are almost two now. And she's leaned on her parents to fill that void.

B (18:18)

I think when you don't have the partner, yes, it's you turn to the extended family, whatever your village looks like, your community, so the friends, family to really kind of step in and share those moments. Mm.

A (18:36)

So true. I heard that from a lot of women, too.

B (18:39)

When we come back, more stories from single mothers who are writing a new narrative, healthy Role Models for Boys Can Be Women. Stay with us.

C (18:51)

This message comes from NPR sponsor Charles Schwab with its original podcast on Investing. It's hosted by Liz Ann Saunders, Schwab's chief investment strategist, and Colin Martin, head of fixed income research and strategy for the Schwab center for Financial Research. Each week, Liz Ann Collin and their guests analyze economic developments and bring context to conversations around stocks, fixed income, the economy and more. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com oninvesting or wherever you get your podcasts. This message comes from BetterHelp. May is mental Health Awareness Month, a reminder that you don't have to do this life alone. From loneliness to anxiety to financial stress, right now, people everywhere are struggling. But having a licensed therapist with you by Video phone or chat can make a difference. And BetterHelp makes it easy. Sign up now and get 10% off@betterhelp.com NPR that's betterhelp.com NPR

B (19:54)

this is the Sunday Story. We're talking to Pahlavi Goi about single mothers. Pahlavi, another aspect of single motherhood that I wanna ask you about is black moms. You know, black single motherhood has been portrayed as a problem, a deficit. You have this stereotypical image of the welfare mom, young, black and poor. Has the black mom experience also shifted?

A (20:32)

Yes. You know, Aisha, the word stigma that kept popping up in my inbox and it was mostly from black single mothers who wrote to me for a long

B (20:42)

time for me, I sat with the shame that society projects onto you and you end up internalizing because you're a single mom.

A (20:51)

This is Danielle townsend. She's a 36 year old mom in Philadelphia. Her son is Caleb, who's seven now. She is part of this new generation of black single women who reject that stigma and they're really pushing back against that narrative.

B (21:08)

I decided recently, like, I don't need to subscribe to that and I'm not going to because that's not serving him

A (21:14)

and it's not serving me. And I can see why. Single women who are black are also skewing older and those numbers are growing. As for teen moms who are black, those numbers have completely fallen off a cliff. They've dropped around 60% in the last 30 years. And sure, there are a lot of single moms who are poor, but the statistics show that black women today are more educated than previous generations. Danielle Townsend is a case in point. She has a master's degree and a stable job overseeing a library in West Philadelphia. She says she wants to write a brand new narrative of black American matriarchy. For instance, she pushes back against research that suggests little boys like hers have a bleak future without a father as a male role model.

B (22:03)

Healthy role models for boys can be women. When people listen to this, the manosphere is going to be very angry because they're like this black boy, he needs a man. He need. A woman can't raise a man. And that's what they say, a woman can't raise a man.

A (22:21)

Yeah, I mean, Danielle Townsend, she really believes that it's not just about gender. She makes sure that Caleb is exposed to both men and women in his life. She has her dad, her uncles. She says they're pretty close to a coach at the local Y. However, what is really important to her is that he is exposed to men and women who have high standards, who are good human beings, rather than the fact that they are male or female, you know. As a mother, Tanzan nurtures her son's dreaming of becoming a conservation scientist. Right now, he's seven, so it's all about birds. In one conversation, he imagined himself to be a bird named after himself, the Caleb bird. And it's. Of course, it's not just any bird. It's Caleb. So Caleb birds are endangered species. Why are they endangered?

B (23:16)

Because we have really beautiful feathers and people hunt us for our feathers.

A (23:25)

People hunt you for your feathers?

B (23:26)

You can only see them in Florida.

A (23:29)

Where in Florida do you find them?

B (23:32)

On the beach. They fly, and sometimes they fight away predators. Aww.

A (23:40)

Another thing that Danielle Townsend talks about is her dream to be a homeowner. For now, she's living in a rental apartment with Caleb, and she hopes to one day save enough to buy a home. That's part of her wanting to be a role model for her kid.

B (23:55)

Her having a goal to so that she can feel like this is her place for her child and where they can be safe and in this sacred space. And it's an investment for the family. I mean, that can be huge.

A (24:10)

It is. And for Danielle Townsend, a home would be a way to honor the generations that have come even before her. Her mom, her grandmom. This is how she puts it.

B (24:20)

I think owning a home would be like the fruit of this vision in my mind where I am saying to myself, danielle is running the show.

A (24:31)

Aisha. The single moms I spoke to are definitely running the show, But a lot of them are also so aware that they can't do it alone. And they're always looking for community. Some of them move to be closer to family. Some even buy homes with other single moms. I know you did that, Aisha. With a friend. What was your motivation?

B (24:54)

Well, it was just a situation where for both me and my best friend, we really needed the support. We don't have family in this area, and so we need somebody to help with these children. Right. And we were living 45 minutes away from each other, and it was like, if only we could be close and we could actually, like, share these duties, the pickups, the drop offs, the this, the that, you know, I need to go here. Can you stay with them? And it just made sense because trying to do it all on your own without support, it's draining and it's lonely, you know? Yeah.

A (25:38)

Yeah. I mean, that is exactly the story that I heard from Some other people I met, let me introduce you to two sisters. And their drivers were very similar.

B (25:49)

I'm Janelle Treibitz. And I'm Lyssa Treibetz.

A (25:52)

Janelle Treibets, she works at a nonprofit now. She's got 8 year old Ayla and 5 year old Mari. And Lyssa Tribetz, who works for this large tech company, she has three year old Luca, and she's expecting her second. So both of them, when they were young, they moved to different parts of the country, first for college, then for work. New York, D.C. california. But in their 40s, they both individually decided to become single moms. And then they moved back home to

B (26:20)

Denver, fourth generation Coloradans. So we have a lot of family in Denver.

A (26:24)

They're really close to their parents. So of course they move back home for family support. And the two of them, they too are very close. They're constantly finishing each other's sentences. And the thing they talked about is how this experience meant they could share all the beautiful milestones that come from raising a child. Like that first step, the first words, the big things, the silly things, you know, Lyssa Tribetz kept saying it was like having more people to bear witness to those moments.

B (26:54)

You want other people there to appreciate

A (26:56)

what's happening in Diev, to witness it with you. Because I feel like that's such a

B (27:00)

joyful part of parenting, is like shared the cuteness. Yeah.

A (27:04)

Initially they thought they'd live close together, you know, close to each other, you know, But Janelle Tribetz, she's the older sister, she had this wish, like, she really wanted them to find homes right next to each other.

B (27:17)

We have to be next to each other.

A (27:18)

We can't be down the street.

B (27:19)

She's like, as soon as you get in a car, this all goes to like, there's no point anymore. We need to be in monitor range. We need to go into each other's house and feel comfortable going to this house with the monitor, Meaning even if

A (27:30)

the baby's asleep, they would be free to visit each other because they have the baby monitor. And their story affected everybody. Their realtor, their mortgage banker. And so when a property came up that had two homes in one property, everyone was rooting for them.

B (27:46)

It's a compelling story. Like two single moms who want to like, sisters who, like, want to, like, support each other.

A (27:51)

And, you know, a lot of the women I spoke to were doing this, finding creative ways to build that village of support.

B (27:59)

You have to try to build the life that you need for the situation that you are currently in that's so beautiful.

A (28:09)

You know, Aisha, I wanted to share one last thought with you. It's something that Lyssa Tribetz told me and it stayed with me for a long time.

B (28:19)

We have a few women in our family who are older, from like 60s to 80s who kind of led more non traditional lives, some who didn't get married, some who got married later in life, but none of whom have kids. All of them went up to Janelle and said, if I had had your courage, if the world had been a different place, I wish that I could

A (28:39)

have done what you did. And Lyssa Tribet said she could hear that longing in their voice. It's one of the reasons that she decided to lean in and take this path. She didn't want to find herself later in life. Full of regrets.

B (28:52)

Yeah. I mean, if you have the desire to be a mother, like this is what I want to do, then going after it and obtaining it and having that baby who's smiling and looking at you and eventually giving you that hug like there's nothing like it. Right? Like there's nothing like it. If that is the path that you want to go on, even if it's not some fairy tale with the Prince Charming and, you know, and the picket fence, even if your story doesn't look like that, it's still a blessing, right? It's still a dream fulfilled.

A (29:33)

So true.

B (29:34)

It's powerful. Well, thank you so much, Pahlavi. It's really just incredible reporting.

A (29:41)

Thank you for having me, Aisha. It's been a pleasure.

B (29:47)

That was Pahlavi Goi, NPR's chief business editor, Bradley, bringing us the stories of single moms she's been talking to around the country. This episode of THE Sunday Story was produced by Andrew Mambo. It was edited by Jenny Schmidt. The engineer was Jimmy Keeley. And we got production help from Janet wujong Lee and Travis Hagan. The rest of the Sunday Story team includes Justine Yan and Lianna Simstrom. Our executive producer is Irene. I'm Aisha Rascoe. And up first, we'll be back tomorrow with all the news you need to start your week. Until then, have a great rest of your weekend.

A (30:33)

This message comes from Rosetta Stone. Spring Travel coming up. Rosetta Stone has been the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Ready to start learning a new language this spring? Visit rosettastone.com NPR today.

C (30:48)

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