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Hi, it's Layla Falded with a special episode of Up First, a conversation from our sister show, NPR's Newsmakers, where we interview some of the most influential people of our time. Our guest today is the mayor of New York City, Zohran Mamdani. When you were campaigning, President Trump called you a communist lunatic. You called him a fascist. Now that you've met with him, that you've spoken with him multiple times, do you still think he's a fascist?
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Yes.
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And do you tell him that?
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B
Yes.
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Is your party ready for the midterms?
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B
I think not only will we push back against the bigotry and cruelty that we've seen in so much of these last few years, but also push for a dignity that too often it seems like we have to look for in the history books of the Democratic Party and not in the present day
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New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani was swept into office on a promise of affordability that resonated with so many voters. It's been just over 100 days that he's been in office, so I came to City hall to ask him about his accomplishments, the economy, the war in Iran, and his relationship with President Trump. We're in a different place. We're in City hall from the last time that we spoke. It's been over 100 days. You've made inroads on some of your campaign promises. On others, you have not. What would you give yourself as a grade?
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I will always leave it to New Yorkers to provide the grades. What I will say is that I'm very proud of what the team was able to accomplish over those first hundred days. This was a time when, just on day eight, we delivered $1.2 billion to make Universal childcare a reality across our city. This is a time where we secured more than $30 million in settlements with bad landlords, repaired more than 6,069 apartments. A time where we were able to secure nearly $100,000 a day for. For workers and small businesses that had been exploited by megacorporations and delivery apps. And we showed that government can do all of these big transformative things while also doing the little things, while also filling in 102,000 potholes in that same length of time.
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You know, there are things that have been maybe more difficult to get started, police reform being one another. Critics will say that, you know, you promised to expand a rental voucher program, but now you're trying to limit it. Are you finding that it is harder to implement campaign promises now that you're actually in the office, I think this
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job comes with an immense amount of difficulty, but that's also because it has an immense amount of possibility within it. And when I ran for mayor, you know, we built our campaign around three central promises. We talked about the importance of delivering universal childcare, the importance of making buses fast and free, and how we believe that tenants deserve to rent freeze and rent stabilized housing. And I'm proud of the fact that beyond the universal childcare, we also announced just on Sunday that we were going to be speeding up buses for more than a million New Yorkers. Because as you know, we have the slowest buses in America here in New York City, some of them are riding at an average speed of five miles an hour. We're going to be putting up to six minutes back into New Yorkers lives from each of these trips. And then when it comes to the rent guidelines board, we had six vacancies on that independent board and we filled all of them. And we're now looking forward to the decision that they come to. But I share this with all of you to give you a sense of, of where we are on what animated so many and how that coupled with just today's announcement of delivering on city run grocery stores within our first term, it shows people that the very things they were told they would be wrong to believe in are in fact the ones that we can deliver on.
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When will New Yorkers start to feel that promise of affordability?
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I think there are many who are feeling it already. You know, I think of a young mother who told me that she wouldn't consider having another child until she heard the news that we were going to save working parents upwards of 20,000 a year with free childcare for two year olds. I think about even just the cyclist who would come up to me and tell me about the fact that now that we've decriminalized what was previously a criminal summons for cyclists across the city, how it's easier for them to get around, be treated the same as they would if they were driving a car. Even just think about the city workers who've been at the heart of so much of this accomplishment and so much of this work, even, even predating this administration, who for the first time in a long time are getting some of that deserved recognition for what they do to keep the city running.
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One of the places where it seems a bit more challenging is on your promise around police reform, especially because you and the commissioner don't seem to be on the same page when you look back at what you did promise on policing, especially when it's that particular unit that deals with protesters. Some accuse it of heavy handed tactics. Where do you stand now?
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I stand in the same place as I always have. I'm committed to disbanding the Strategic Response Group and decoupling our city's response to protests versus threats of terrorism. What we've seen is the bringing together of these two things, when in fact they do not need to be conflated. And I think part of what you're seeing in our administration is that we want to deliver this in a manner that isn't just checking a box, but, but in a manner that both upholds the sanctity of the First Amendment, the freedom of expression of protest, and also does so in a manner that keeps New Yorkers safe. And in the same period of time, we have codified the fact that the NYPD will now release body worn camera footage within 30 days. We have stopped the prior administration's approach of giving criminal summonses to cyclists. We have started to bring back that same commitment that we spoke of, of not only keeping New Yorkers safe, but also of delivering justice. We have also established our city's first ever Office of Community Safety, which will be tasked with delivering the kind of innovative responses to the very crises that have long been pushed aside in New York City politics, whether they be gun violence or the mental health crisis. This is the very work that our city is taking on as an urgent task before it.
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But how will you disband that particular unit which arrested protesters if the police commissioner doesn't have the same goal? And if police see you as overly sympathetic to accusers who come forward and say the police were not acting right?
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B
Well, I would say that at the end of the day, as the mayor of the city, if there is something that I believe we need to do, then we will do it. And I am proud of the work that my police commissioner has been doing. And we are very much on the same page in the need to deliver both safety and justice to, to New Yorkers. And to me, it's not a question of if we will do this work, it's a question of when and wanting to ensure that we do this in a manner that we can look back on weeks, months, years after the fact and say not only do we do the right thing, but we did it in the right way. This message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana Making. Buying a car 100% online with real transparent pricing and customizable financing that fits your budget. Browse thousands of cars and get yours delivered. Visit Carvana.com today. Delivery fees and terms may apply.
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Every story from shortwave NPR Science Podcast starts with a question like why do we have nightmares? How does AI affect my energy bill? At npr, we are here for your right to be curious about the world around you. Follow Short Wave wherever you get your podcasts because the more you ask, the more the more interesting the world gets. You're a proud Democratic socialist. It's clear Republicans plan to use you and that platform as an attack point come the midterms. Do you feel pressure to prove that your brand of democratic socialism works before the midterms?
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I feel pressure from New Yorkers to deliver for them on their day to day needs. If Republicans want to attack a record of making it easier for families to raise their kids in the city, of workers to get paid what they're owed, of New Yorkers to get around the five boroughs, they can feel free to attack that. But what they will find is that the reason so many people across the city and across the country have lost faith in politics is because of that sense that politics has less and less of a relevance to their day to day needs. And in fact, one of the most relevant things that we can be doing in our politics today is addressing the material needs of working class people. That's exactly what we focused on.
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What I'm asking is whether you like it or not, you have been made to seem like a boogeyman of some kind, right from, from the Republicans, especially when you were running. So do you feel an added sense of pressure nationally because of the face you've become of the Democratic Party and specifically the progressive part of this party?
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I'll be honest with you, I don't let myself think too much about what Republicans seek to portray me as. I think about the fact that the power of an ideology is judged in the worth of its delivery. And delivery at the end of the day is every single thing that we want to do. It's why I spoke on Sunday about pothole politics as a way we describe the work that we do. Because for a long time Republicans have sought to describe themselves as being driven by the needs of working people, when in reality we've seen a chasm in what they've actually delivered for those people. I mean, look at the war in Iran today we're talking about a federal administration that has spent close to $30 billion killing thousands of people at a time when working class people across this country cannot afford the bare minimum. And to be told that a city run grocery store is implausible. But spending more than $500 million a day to kill people in Iran and Lebanon is not only plausible, but necessary. It speaks to a broken kind of politics. And what we're showing is that we can put forward not just our principles, but also the practical impacts of this work. We can deliver universal childcare and change 6700 catch basins. We can take on bad landlords across the city and start to repave more than 1,000 miles of roadway. We can do all of these things where we've been told in the past, you can only do one.
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Has the war in Iran had an outsized impact specifically on the economy of the city?
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Yes, the war in Iran has had an impact on the economy of this country. And even more than the economy, it's had an impact on the people of this city and across this country. At the core of any war is a dehumanization that takes place. And that dehumanization is not limited to any battlefield. It extends into the lives of people across this country. And I spoke to a young Muslim woman who I had called after seeing the news that she had been thrown to the ground at a subway stop. She told me that the first thing her attacker said to her before he attacked her was, I wonder how many Iranians we killed today. That is what we are allowing to take hold in our politics. And it is critically important for all of us to speak up, not just from a position of politics, but frankly, even just from a position of morals.
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Have you shared, I know you've spoken publicly about your concerns about this war, but have you shared those directly with President Trump?
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I'll keep the nature of the conversations with the president between the two of us. What I will tell you is that it is no secret, not my concerns. I would describe it more as a deep opposition to this war, a deep opposition that comes out of a concern for what our politics are incentivizing in this moment, the killing of civilians as opposed to the uplifting of working class people across this country.
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So I know you said, I'll keep the context of those contents of those conversations between us. But when you were campaigning, President Trump did have names for you. He called you a communist lunatic, and you had names for him. You called him a fascist. Now that you've met with him, that you've spoken with him multiple times, do you still think he's a fascist?
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Yes.
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And do you tell him that?
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Yes.
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How does he react?
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I think everyone saw in the conversation we had in the Oval Office after
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our first meeting what about your impressions. I mean, given the questions that have been raised, including on the right, about his mental acuity in this moment. You know, posting online that he would end a civilization, recently posting an image AI generated of himself that seemed to depict him as Jesus, and then deleting it. How do you assess that? As somebody who has met with him, spoken with him?
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I've been quite clear with the President and also with the public of my deep disagreement and opposition to so many of these policies. And I think that one of the few things that we have in common is that we are both New Yorkers and we will both. And I think one part of being a New Yorker is both to be honest and to be direct. And when I'm sitting with the President, we talk about places of potential collaboration, whether it could be working together to deliver More than 12,000 homes, the most homes delivered in a single housing development the city has seen since the early 1970s. But we're also very clear about places of disagreement. And one place that I mentioned to the President was on my views around ice. I believe that ICE raids are cruel and inhumane. I believe they do nothing to deliver us on the stated intent of public safety. And in the previous meeting that I had with the President, I mentioned that just that morning a Columbia student had been detained by ice. And I said that this was actually part of a larger pattern of five individuals who had been detained in or around Columbia University. I gave him that list. About 30 minutes after the meeting, he called me and said that he had now made the decision that he was going to release that Columbia student. And to me, it also showcases the importance of continuing to make the case for our city and its people, no matter if you agree or disagree with the person that you're speaking with.
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He seems to like you. Are you and the President friends?
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I would say that he's the President and I'm the mayor, and the basis of the relationship comes from those two positions.
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But other Democratic mayors have asked for people to be released from detention. They have seen ICE presences in their cities that we haven't seen here in New York City. Why hasn't he had the same approach to New York City that we've seen in Chicago, in Minneapolis and other Democratic led cities?
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You know, I. I think in some ways that's a question for the President. In other ways, I think to be a New Yorker and to be speaking to another New Yorker, it is. There is a commonality that comes with that where the President himself said that the better this city does the happier he feels. That's something that I feel the same way. The better the city does, the happier I feel. And so in those meetings, I seek to always bring up things that are both honest about how we both feel and that would be transformative for the city that we both love. And to New Yorkers, public safety is a prerequisite for the affordability agenda. And then that affordability is something we want to deliver. And we know the number one crisis facing New Yorkers is the housing crisis.
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You've inherited a $12 billion shortfall. There have been job losses in the private sector that we haven't seen in other parts of New York. And one of the things we talked about the last time we spoke was the concern among businessmen that your socialist policies wouldn't be friendly to businesses. Has that shifted? I mean, people like Bill Ackman, Trump supporter, billionaire, who really bet against you, literally with his money, millions. Has that relationship changed? Do you talk to him now and get advice on how to deal with these businesses and attract them here?
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I can't say that I get advice from Bill Ackman. If I had done that, I wouldn't be sitting opposite you as the mayor. But I do speak to a number of business leaders across the city. And while we see that both at a national level, there are troubling economic signs and that New York City is obviously part of that national economy, we also look at a local economy that sees the highest demand for Manhattan office space in over a decade, that sees the most amount of venture capital raised in a single quarter since 2021, that sees the highest number of Wall street bonuses and also an economy that we know still needs to strengthen so that every New Yorker can feel that strength in their day to day life. Because no matter the statistics that I rattle off, I can walk anywhere in this city and I can meet a New Yorker who feels as if their day to day needs are even harder to afford today than they were the day before. And so to that end, we're looking to also build more of an economy that reaches the extent of each parts of the five boroughs and one that every New Yorker sees themselves as a part of.
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As part of our NPR Newsmaker series, Jamie Dimon, the CEO of JPMorgan Chase, which is headquartered here, told Steve Inskeep he thinks cities need to compete to attract businesses by giving tax breaks and incentives. He cited places like Texas as very business friendly. And you came into, as I mentioned, this office with a, with a tough budget and significant job losses in the private sector. Are you willing to offer those kinds of incentives to bring back some of the thousands of businesses that have left or shut over the last few years.
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You know, first, you are absolutely correct to describe this, what we inherited as difficult. We're talking about initially a $12 billion fiscal deficit that through an immense amount of work and savings and use of our own reserves, we were able to bring down to $5.4 billion. That's still where it stands today. And it is the kind of fiscal deficit the city has not seen for a generation dwarfs even that of the Great Recession. What makes this distinct, however, unlike the Great Recession, is it's a crisis purely of city governments making not one of any external factors. It's an inability to budget in an honest way to actually account for the expenses of what is in our city government services. We are looking now for every potential saving and any example of fraud or inefficiency or waste as something to eliminate entirely. Now, amidst all of that, we also want to build a city that in the words of Jamie Dimon, competes because I agree there is no, we do not have the right to be. It is not something that is that we inherit to be the greatest city in the world. We have to prove it and earn it every single day. And part of the ways that we do that, I don't think it's necessarily through a government and policy of subsidy and tax breaks. I think it's through a government that delivers the highest quality of public services across the country. I think it's by ensuring that New Yorkers can look at streets that are paved at potholes, that are filled at a quality of life that has no competition, frankly. And I think a big part of this also that I've heard from many business leaders as well as New Yorkers across the five boroughs is public safety. And that's why it's been such a focus for us is how do we drive down already record crime to even lower levels such that when businesses are thinking about where they want to open a business, where they want to get keep that business, they think of New York City. And we're excited by the fact that not only has JPMorgan Chase opened their new multibillion dollar headquarters, but also that Amex has decided to build a new global headquarters here, that bank of America has recommitted to a long term lease with the city and that when we look at the World cup coming in now less than 60 days, that there's a multi billion dollar economic opportunity that comes with that as well.
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You talked about wanting to build stronger relationships with all kinds of New Yorkers, but specifically Jewish New Yorkers. You drew significant support from liberal and leftist Jewish Americans, Jewish communities. But you also drew a lot of skepticism. And there was a lot of fear that your sharp criticisms of Israel would also translate into something else. You did not renew two executive orders from your predecessor. One that adopted a broad definition of anti Semitism and another that prohibited city employees from engaging in the Boycott Div and sanctions movement against Israel. And this drew some concerns from some Jewish groups here. Why did you make that decision?
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So we made the decision coming into office that we would revoke all executive orders that the prior mayor had signed after he was federally indicted. That was a moment at which many New Yorkers started to ask themselves, what was the motivation of any one executive order? Was it driven by self interest, or was it in fact being driven by what it should be, which is public interest? And we've also sought to show that we are fully committed in fulfilling what we had spoken about over the course of the campaign to not just keep Jewish New Yorkers safe across the city alongside each and every New Yorker, but also to celebrate and cherish those same New Yorkers. And so over the course, for example, of Passover, it's been an incredible opportunity for me to attend a number of Seders to host Jewish City hall officials at our home at Gracie Mansion for a Seder to sit there as staffers look for the afikomen to get a better sense of what it means to lead a city with such incredible beauty and breadth of Jewish life across the five boroughs. And also to get a glimpse into the amount of service that so many organizations within the Jewish community are providing. Whether it was joining with an organization on an airfield to give out food that they had procured for teachers in the community, or if it was sitting with a Jewish New Yorker looking at Civil War era texts together. It has all been a joy to be able to be the mayor of a city with such a flourishing community that I am so proud to represent.
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How will your office define antisemitism?
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So we actually have the office to combat Antisemitism here at City hall. And one of their jobs is to not only define that, but frankly to conduct a listening tour to actually bring in the perspectives of Jewish New Yorkers from across the five boroughs.
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A
You faced a lot of anti Muslim rhetoric and fear mongering around your faith and the faith of many Americans. You know, an example that you'll bring Islamic law to New York City. But you do turn to scripture to make Political points both from within your faith and from other faiths. And you, for example, on immigration, you quoted the Koran, you quoted the Bible. Should there be a role for religion in politics?
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I think that religion is a part of so many New Yorkers lives, and it also provides a guide for many as to what it looks like to bring a morality into a politics that is often missing. And what I mean by a morality is a belief in the dignity of those who are struggling. And we've seen religion used as a tool to divide. And I've instead seen it across the city as a tool to actually find commonality amongst so many. Because the lessons of many scriptures, they are similar in the empowerment of working people and in the belief that there has to be something more than simply a desire of profit when it comes to delivering for people.
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You said we've seen religion used to divide. Are you talking about this administration?
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I think it is something that is frankly not exclusive to any one administration. We're seeing it within this federal administration. We've also seen it within both political parties in this country. So much of the bigotry that I faced, it was not just in the general election, it was also in the primary election. And the language that was used then was language that was used among and by Democrats within a primary for this position. And we're speaking about a city that has more than a million Muslims that call it home. And yet it's a city where so many are made to feel as if they're guests, as if their belonging is forever in question. And I want this to be a city where every New Yorker, no matter their faith, no matter where they were born, understands that their belonging is never in question.
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A
Has that changed in your party? Because when we spoke when you were the presumptive nominee, there were still many Democratic leaders who would not endorse you and had severe criticisms for you and at times said things directly about your faith.
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I think that many are waking up to a New York City that is eager for a new era of politics and one where there is a belief in that most sacred thing which is what makes all of us New Yorkers. And we define being a New Yorker as anyone who lives here. And we don't see seek to bring back that politics that has been almost a part of so much of the discourse across the city, across the country, which is looking for different ways in which to define people such that we can always have those who are excluded. This message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Carvana believes selling your car should be refreshingly simple. Enter your license plate or vin, get
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A
Are there ever any times where you're. You smile a lot. And even when people are maybe insulting you, you still smile.
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Are there the kindest thing I can say in return? Sometimes.
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A
Are there ever any times where you're like, I'm done being nice about this.
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B
I've. It is much easier for me. My natural disposition is to smile. However, there are things in our politics that are worthy of being pushed back against. And I make sure to make that clear in my own words, in my own actions. In as much as there is so much that we're fighting for, I also make it clear what it is that we will fight back against. Because what we see is that the kind of bigotry and cruelty that has become endemic in our politics, it's not unique in that so many people across the city face it. What makes that unique sometimes is the willingness to allow it to fester, and it requires the kind of forceful pushback that I think has often been missing.
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A
You are a leading voice in your party. You're the mayor of New York, but you are also a national figure. Are you included in these conversations about the future of the party and what Americans writ large want from this party
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in a group chat, or you think, I don't know.
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A
Do you have a WhatsApp chat?
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B
Is there a group chat? I was gonna say. I'm not in a group chat. I don't know if they have it. You know, I think what has been really exciting is that the hunger that I speak about for a new kind of politics, it doesn't feel specific to New York City. It feels broader than that. And I think in our politics, we've often spent a lot of time pontificating about the meaning of something. That is time that I believe we could spend doing more of that thing. And I think that in delivering what it is that we've been speaking about over the last more than 100 days, that in itself serves as the power of example for what can be done elsewhere. I think about the path to so much that we aspire for in other countries. It all begins with one example. And here in New York City, we're seeking to be an example for what it can look like to make life more affordable for working people.
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A
Is your party ready for the midterms in the sense that there was a message from American voters in the presidential election? That they did not want what the Democrats were promising or saying. Is that going to be different, do you think?
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B
I do. I think that what we are going to see is a message that Americans across the country are fed up with what politics has come to mean over these last few years. And I'm excited by a number of candidates right here in New York City. We have Brad Lander, who's running for Congress here in Manhattan in Brooklyn, Claire Valdez running for Congress in Queens in Brooklyn. And I think what they show is the very kind of politics that people have been eager to see on the national stage, a politics that understands not only will we push back against the bigotry and cruelty that we've seen in so much of these last few years, but also push for a dignity that too often it seems like we have to look for in the history books of the Democratic Party and not in the present day.
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Okay, I can't let you go without asking. You went from a one bedroom in Queens to, to a literal mansion. It's just, what are you doing with all the space? What's it like?
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B
You never realize how small your one bedroom is until you try and move it into the larger, even bedroom that we have there. I'll be honest with you, it's pretty nuts to move into a space like this. I don't spend all that much time there. Most of my time, frankly, is here at City hall and around New York City. I've tried to live life like the same New Yorker that I was before this because so much of how you see the world is informed by who you're seeing it with and how you're living in that world. So if you spend every single day driving around in a tinted window security detail, you will have a very specific view of the city. That's why I'm looking to take the train to bike around the city, to walk around the city, because that's also how you actually meet other New Yorkers and you break out of the bubble that so many have come to expect of politics, where politicians only seem to be spending time with other politicians or the people who donated to make them politicians.
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A
Is there anything you really miss about your old life?
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B
I used to only be about three blocks from Steinway and I definitely miss Steinway, but I can still see it very far, but it's still there from the lawn.
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Mehram Dani, thank you for taking the time.
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B
Very welcome.
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We appreciate it.
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B
Thank you.
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For more of NPR's newsmakers, search for the show wherever you get podcasts or watch it on NPR's YouTube channel. Newsmakers like up first relies on listeners who value independent journalism and a free press. Join NPR plus today to support our work and get perks from the podcasts you trust. Go to plus.NPR.org I'm Leila Falden. Thank you for listening to Up first from NPR.