Podcast
Upzoned
Hosted by Strong Towns · EN
Sometimes, a hot new story will cross our desks that we need to talk about right away. That's where Upzoned comes in. Join Strong Towns President Chuck Marohn, Carlee Alm-LaBar, Norm Van Eeden Petersman, and other guests to talk in depth about one big story from the week in the Strong Towns conversation, right when you want it: now.
53episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
The Tuba and What It Actually Takes to Build Community
1w ago01:03:18Summary readySam Quinones keynoted the Strong Towns National Gathering last week and closed with a story about a tuba. If that left you wanting more, this conversation with Chuck Marohn is the place to start. This rerun from the Strong Towns Podcast follows Sam’s obsession with the “perfect tubas,” the almost-mythic York horns that tuba players have chased for decades. From there, he opens up a wider world of band rooms on the Texas border, long days playing at Disney World, and crowded Tuba Christmas events. Together, he and Chuck connect tubas, band culture, and strict musical standards to addiction, purpose, and how shared work and craft help hold communities together. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES Sam Quinones (LinkedIn, Site) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.
SummaryAre We Trying to Build No Houses?
2w ago00:49:47Summary readyA viral town meeting clip from Marblehead, Massachusetts, raised a question that goes far beyond one zoning debate: What happens when a state says yes to more housing, but the local process still makes it hard to build? Or, as resident David Modica put it, “Are we trying to do nothing?” Carlee Alm-LaBar talks with Strong Towns Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt and Lafayette City Councilman Thomas Hooks about the messy handoff between policy and place. They look at why communities can comply on paper while resisting in practice, and why the next real step may be as small as one block, one lot, or one drawing that helps people see what is possible. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The Latest Hero of the ‘Yimby’ Movement Is a Massachusetts Man in a Hoodie" by Will Parker, WSJ.com (May 2026) Downzone: The Victory of Greenwood, by Carlos Moreno (Site) Scrubs Reboot (Site) Junior League of Lafayette (Site) Strong Towns National Gathering (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Thomas Hooks (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.
SummaryWhen The Ribbon Cutting Is the Cheapest Part
3w ago00:41:17Summary readyDes Moines just approved an $8.4 million first phase for a $54 million park overhaul. The bid came in over estimate, and there's no maintenance plan in sight — meanwhile the city was cutting services 9% across the board just last year. Norm Van Eeden Petersman talks with parks consultant Jamie Sabbach, author of the new book The Bison Principle, and writer Michel Durand-Wood about what cities consistently leave out of these decisions. Construction is only about 20% of what a public asset costs over its lifetime, and most cities aren't planning for the rest. The conversation gets into maintenance backlogs, why capital and operating budgets are really the same money, and what a city would actually decide if the 50-year cost were part of the conversation from the start. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Birdland Park's $54M Overhaul Moves into Construction Phase" by Jason Clayworth, Axios.com (April 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Jamie Sabbach (LinkedIn), The Bison Principle (Book) Dear Winnipeg (Site), You'll Pay For This! (Book) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: In Praise of Background Buildings by Gracen Johnson Places and Non-Places by Andrew Price Field of Schemes Fizzy Fuzzy Big & Buzzy - Album by The Refreshments Team of Rivals by Doris Kearns Goodwin The Power Broker: Robert Moses and the Fall of New York by Robert Caro The 99% Invisible Breakdown of The Power Broker Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.
SummaryInside the Politics of ‘Safer Streets’
4w ago00:49:01Summary readyWhat if the street itself did most of the work of slowing cars, instead of another sign or speed trap? Drawing on a new Bloomberg CityLab piece, Carlee Alm‑LaBar is joined by Edward Erfurt and Ann Arbor’s transportation manager, Malisa McCreedy, to talk about what these deaths say about speed, design, and the values baked into our networks. They explore why Vision Zero efforts struggle, how Ann Arbor is embedding safety into every project, and why planners and engineers often hesitate to talk openly about crashes, using Ann Arbor’s crash analysis studio, university partnerships, and quick‑build projects to show how a city can respond more directly to serious crashes. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Searching for the ‘Smoking Gun’ in US Pedestrian Deaths" by David Zipper, Bloomberg.com (April 2026) Downzone: City of Ann Arbor Hosting Crash Analysis Studio (Site) 2026 APA National Planning Conference (Site) "Great Expectations" by Charles Dickens (Site) Strong Towns National Gathering (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Malisa McCreedy (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.
SummaryWhen Your City Feels Like Housing Musical Chairs
Apr 2900:45:55Summary readyWhat happens when the American Dream stops meaning “doing better than your parents” and starts meaning “just not falling behind”? Norm Van Eeden Petersman sits down with Andrew Burleson and Ryan Puzycki to untangle why stability feels so fragile, even in “booming” cities. They trace how zoning turns housing into a rigged game of musical chairs, how some places face strangling exclusion while others slide into rolling blight, and how missing bottom rungs on the housing ladder and remote work push rising costs — and workers — farther out. They connect these pressures to a new American Dream: finding a stable home that won’t vanish with the next lease. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "The American Dream Meant Upward Mobility. Now, it Means Stability." by Rachel Barber and Veronica Bravo, USAToday.com (March 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Andrew Burleson (LinkedIn) Ryan Puzycki (LinkedIn) Articles Mentioned and Downzone: Adaptive Code (Article) Remote Isn't Working (Article) The Hobbit, J. R. R. Tolkien (Audiobook) The Social House Will Not Reopen (Article) Sticky Notes: The Classical Music Podcast (Site) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Thank you! Join fellow members discussing this episode in The Commons.
SummaryNew York’s Bracket And The Politics Of Maintenance
Apr 2200:40:54Summary readyIn New York City, a playful bracket about broken hoops and dumping sites turns routine maintenance into a citywide tournament. Carlee Alm-LaBar, Edward Erfurt, and Alexander Lazard explore what that reveals about complaint driven 311 systems, how priorities really get set, and which neighborhoods get left off the board entirely. Their conversation presses on whether mayors can turn one clever contest into lasting trust instead of a one week story. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Mayor Mamdani Launches March Madness-style Competition for City Fixes" by Spectrum News Staff, NY1.com (March 2026) "Municipal Madness: Mayor Mamdani Performs Winning City Fix, Cleans Up Illegal Dumping in Soundview on Day 100" (Article) "Mamdani, Leaning Into ‘Sewer Socialism,’ Gets His Hands Dirty" (Article) Downzone: "Mary Colter: Builder Upon the Red Earth" by Virginia L. Grattan (Book) "The Image of the City" by Kevin Lynch (Book) "How Big Things Get Done" by Bent Flyvbjerg and Dan Gardner (Book) Strong Towns National Gathering (Site) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Alexander Lazard (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.
SummaryUnpacking The Myth That Growth Pays For Growth
Apr 1500:41:38Summary readyDevelopment cost charges are supposed to make growth pay for itself, but this conversation shows just how far that promise falls short. Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Michel Durand-Wood, and Dan Winer unpack Ontario’s deal to halve development charges, British Columbia’s per‑unit fee structure that punishes small infill, and Winnipeg’s court battle over impact fees. They reveal how these choices ripple into housing prices, municipal deficits, and whether existing neighborhoods ever see the gentle density and local services they’ve been promised. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "City Councillors Fear 'Devil in the Details' in Federal-Provincial Housing Fund" by Arthur White-Crummery, CBC.ca (March 2026) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Dan Winer (LinkedIn) Dear Winnipeg (Site) You'll Pay For This! (Book) Articles mentioned and Downzone: Readying B.C. to deliver more homes for people in communities (Article) The Party Analogy (Article) The Master and His Emissary, Ian McGilchrist (Book) Murderland, Caroline Fraser (Book) Shrill Season 1 (Prime Video) An Inside Job, Daniel Silva (Book) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.
SummaryThe $600K Snow Budget That Became a $6 Million Problem
Apr 800:44:17Summary readyA Massachusetts town budgeted $600,000 for snow and ended up spending $6 million clearing its streets. Norm Van Eeden Petersman, Daniel Herriges, and Gracen Johnson trace the links between winter operations, stormwater, supply chains, labor, and land use in cities facing serious snow. Starting with Boston’s overrun numbers, they widen the lens to Ottawa’s snow storage sites and Minneapolis’ potholes, asking what happens when seasonal extremes collide with tight city budgets. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "‘That comes with a price tag’: How snow removal is busting town budgets" by Kate Selig, Bostonglobe.com (March 2026) "The Cost of an Extra Foot" by Chuck Marohn "Transactions of Decline" by Chuck Marohn Downzone: "Cost-Based Social Rental Housing in Europe" (Web PDF) The Ink (Substack) You'll Pay For This! (Site) Criminal Broads (Site) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Daniel Herriges (LinkedIn) Gracen Johnson (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.
SummaryWhat LA’s Trash Problem Reveals About Its Streets
Apr 100:46:17Summary readyWhile Los Angeles gets ready for the Olympics and World Cup, residents watch trash pile up in the places tourists never see. Chuck, Norm, and Carlee trace the links between auto‑oriented growth, a strained city budget, and basic services that can’t keep up. Through one neighborhood organizer’s Saturday cleanups, they show how garbage exposes which streets are truly cared for. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Talking Trash" by Alissa Walker, Torched.la (February 2026) Chuck Marohn (LinkedIn) Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Carlee Alm-LaBar (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.
SummaryWhy a Legal Home Addition Sparked Outrage in Fairfax County
Dec 1700:50:14Summary readyA multigenerational home addition sparked national attention and local outrage in Fairfax County, Virginia. Chief Technical Advisor Edward Erfurt sits down with guest host Norm Van Eeden Petersman to explore why legally allowed housing can still feel deeply disruptive — and what this reveals about zoning, design, and incremental change. ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTES "Massive Multigenerational Home Addition Sparks Furious Debate in Virginia Community" by Julie Taylor, Realtor.com (November 2025) "The Monster House: Why a Change in Neighborhood Scale Isn’t a Bad Thing" by Emma Durand-Wood "Multigenerational Living Isn't Immigrant Culture, It's Human Culture" by Shina Shayesteh Norm Van Eeden Petersman (LinkedIn) Edward Erfurt (LinkedIn) Theme Music by Kemet the Phantom. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership.
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