60: Using AI to Drive Organizational Change with Sara Flowers

Summary

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Episode Summary

Podcast: Using AI at Work: AI in the Workplace & Generative AI for Business Leaders

Episode 60: Using AI to Drive Organizational Change with Sara Flowers
Host: Chris Daigle
Guest: Sara Flowers, Workplace Optimization Strategist & Chief AI Officer
Date: July 7, 2025

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Main Theme & Purpose

This episode dives deep into how generative AI is being used to drive real organizational change, focusing on tangible applications, overcoming resistance, and what effective AI adoption looks like inside large organizations. Host Chris Daigle interviews Sara Flowers—a workplace optimization strategist, AI consultant, and one of his fastest Chief AI Officer certification graduates—about the transformation she’s led with clients at the intersection of people, process, and AI.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sara’s Professional Background & Journey into AI

• Long-standing experience:
  • Taught “Introduction to the Internet” courses in the early days ([02:06]).
  • Former lead trainer at Dell; pivoted toward AI with a people-first mindset.
  • Specialized in “workplace optimization strategies” with a strong emphasis on human well-being.
• Formal AI expertise:
  • Completed the Chief AI Officer certification to gain credibility and confidence with AI ([02:06]).
  • Fastest graduate (second fastest to date) of the program ([00:59]).

Notable Quote:

“It made it clear that this is a new era and that we’re not just catching up, we’re leading it.”
—Sara ([02:25])

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2. Real-World Use Cases: Bringing AI Into Client Organizations

A. From ChatGPT Enthusiast to Complex AI Workflows

• Personal use:
  • Started with ChatGPT for personal efficiency (health, pet care, daily planning).
  • Loaded ChatGPT with her books, articles, and company/team dynamics to create an “AI assistant” that knows her voice and context ([06:04]).

Notable Quote:

“Start talking to it every single day. So you’ve built this relationship just like that assistant that’s worked with you four years instead of four months.”
—Sara ([06:54])

B. Custom Bots & Departmental AI Assistants

• Bot development:
  • Built department-specific custom GPTs: marketing operations, customer service, project management—all with ongoing, context-rich threads ([07:06]).
  • Used bots for SOP management, project tracking, and problem analysis.
• Case study:
  • Example: Exported Trello boards of inventory management to ChatGPT, which generated a 34-page report on vendor issues, leading to a concrete action plan ([08:50]).

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3. AI Implementation: Change Management and Results

A. Key AI Tools Deployed

• ChatGPT for Teams: Streamlined organization-wide communication and documentation.
• Timely: AI-enabled time tracking to optimize human resource allocation ([10:05]).
• Ada: Advanced AI-powered customer service automation (six-figure investment, multi-month rollout).

B. Customer Service Overhaul with AI

• Problem: 6,500 Zendesk tickets in arrears, high call volume, and aging knowledge base ([11:18]).
• Solution:
  • Went live with Ada first for email, then planned for voice.
  • Cleared the entire ticket backlog within a week ([11:58]).
  • Zero chargebacks and no negative BBB reviews since launch.
  • Metrics: 43% AR (vs. 30% target), 63% contained rate (vs. 34% industry median)—just on email, with voice yet to be deployed ([14:44]).

Notable Quote:

“Those tickets were down to zero before the end of business day on Friday of that same week.”
—Sara ([12:00])

Change Management Strategy

• Employee resistance: Anticipated, especially among older staff ([15:08]).
• Approach:
  • Created a change management plan using AI (slide decks, voiceovers).
  • Emphasized “what’s in it for you” for team members ([18:25]).
  • High transparency about phases, hurdles, and department-specific impacts.

Notable Quotes:

“I treat AI as a partner, not a product.”
—Sara ([17:29])
“I positioned the whole change management plan like, what’s in it for them?”
—Sara ([18:25])

C. Impact on Culture and Team

• Morale: Improved as initial skepticism gave way to enthusiasm ([17:05]).
• Leadership: AI implementation revealed human performance issues but ultimately led to leadership changes and culture shift.
• Rollout: No department adopted AI with zero pushback; “AI champions” emerged after initial skepticism ([19:43]).

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4. AI in Content Creation & Copywriting

• Multi-bot strategy:
  • One bot writes, another fact-checks, a third creates image prompts for print newsletter metaphors ([20:29]).
• Copywriter attitudes:
  • Some are bullish (John Benson, Stefan Georgi); some use AI covertly.
  • Output and metrics still drive satisfaction—AI use is an evolving norm in agencies ([21:16], [22:18]).

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5. Pricing, Productivity, and the Value Paradigm

Discussion:

• Rise in output and speed doesn’t decrease value—clients care about results, not billable hours ([24:31]).
• AI allows more jobs with less manpower and greater efficiency ([25:09]).
• Some clients who were initially AI-resistant have become advocates within a year ([25:54]).

Notable Quote:

“You don’t have a choice. If you start today, you gain the advantage […] It becomes this exponential optimization of your operation.”
—Chris ([26:37])

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6. Continuous Learning & AI Stack Management

• Challenge: AI tools are advancing rapidly, requiring dedicated roles for ongoing management ([29:22]).
• Solution: Establish “AI project management” as a unique role within departments:
  • Continuous tool and workflow optimization ([30:50]–[32:00]).
  • Each department needs a human “AI owner” to monitor and update bots, maintain knowledge bases, and support innovation ([34:43]).
• Dual modality bots: Balance factual accuracy with ideation capability; teach staff to use both sides effectively ([32:00]).

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7. Organizational Structure: New Roles Emerging

• Org chart evolution: Chief AI Officer leads; each key department gets an AI manager/owner ([34:43]).
  • Example: Customer service now has a dedicated Ada manager.
• Hiring: Modern project managers expected to have AI skills; compensation may reflect expanded duties ([35:45]).
• AI champions: Enthusiastic advocates on the team accelerate learning and adoption ([36:46]).

Notable Quote:

“If you don’t have somebody almost solely dedicated to [AI] every day, you are falling behind.”
—Sara ([28:16])

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8. AI Talent: Sourcing and Vetting True Experts

• Advice:
  • Screen for real problem-solving ability, not just surface-level skills (e.g., “writing emails in ChatGPT” is entry-level) ([43:20]).
  • Identify business pain points and ask candidates to propose AI-based solutions ([44:45]).
  • Beware of “AI experts” who only generate content for social media ([47:47]).
• Market outlook: Demand is high, true talent scarce; act quickly to secure talent ([48:55], [50:14]).

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9. Where AI Transformation Stands Today

• Normalization:
  • AI now seen as a baseline tool across industries and roles ([38:33]).
  • Rapid mainstreaming, but still a gap in depth of usage versus true expertise ([41:12]).

Notable Quote:

“You’re just barely scratching the surface. And there’s so much more we are excited for you to take advantage of.”
—Sara ([42:44])

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Actionable Advice for Listeners

1. Start now. Early adopters gain an exponential advantage ([28:16], [38:33]).
2. Don’t get overwhelmed by tools. Pick a stack, focus on problems, iterate ([44:45]).
3. Build internal champions. Identify and empower staff excited about AI ([36:46]).
4. Continually upskill. Dedicate roles to keep up with AI advancements ([30:50], [32:00]).
5. Screen talent for problem-solving, not just tool familiarity ([43:20]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[ChatGPT] knows the team dynamics and the challenges and the people that have come and gone… Start talking to it every single day.” —Sara ([06:54])
• “I treat AI as a partner, not a product.” —Sara ([17:29])
• “You don’t have a choice. If you start today, you gain the advantage… it becomes this exponential optimization of your operation.” —Chris ([26:37])
• “If you don’t have somebody almost solely dedicated to [AI] every day, you are falling behind.” —Sara ([28:16])
• “What is the problem, what’s the best AI solution, and how do we get the humans on board?” —Sara ([17:47])
• “Don’t chase the latest tool. Figure out the business problem and solve it with what you have.” —Sara ([44:45])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sara’s background & shift to AI: [02:06]–[05:02]
• AI tools and custom bots: [06:04]–[09:12]
• Case study—customer service transformation: [11:18]–[14:44]
• Change management overview: [15:08]–[19:33]
• AI in copywriting/content workflows: [20:29]–[23:12]
• Pricing and productivity paradigms: [24:31]–[26:37]
• Continual AI learning & AI project management: [29:22]–[32:00], [34:43]
• Building an AI-powered org chart: [33:39]–[36:46]
• Talent strategy and market realities: [43:20]–[50:14]
• Future opportunities, sharing insights, and closing advice: [45:42]–[53:40]

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Connect with Sara Flowers

• Website & Boutique Consultancy: growwithflowers.com
• Email: [e-mail]
• LinkedIn: Sara Flowers

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For more podcast episodes and resources:
Using AI at Work podcast

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Transcript

[A]

This podcast episode is sponsored by chiefaiofficer.com offering training and certification through the International association of Chief AI Officers. Interested in a new career or leveling up your value in the marketplace? Chiefaiofficer.com can help. Welcome to Using AI at Work. I'm your host, Chris Daigle. Each week we'll be learning how today's business owners, entrepreneurs and ambitious professionals are getting more done with smart use of tomorrow's tech. Let's get started. Hey, guys. So this is going to be a fun conversation, and I know that we haven't produced an episode in about two months, but this is a great way to kick it back off with earnest or in earnest. So our guest today is Sarah Flowers. Sarah and I have known each other tangentially for a decade plus and business, we've kind of overlapped with some deals that we've done in the past and mutual friends and that sort of thing. And about, I don't know, a year and a half ago, we reconnected. She was very interested in taking her expertise in business and introducing generative AI into that so that she could supplement what she was doing better, support her clients, be that person who could answer those questions for her clients. And so she enrolled in our Chief AI Officer certification program. And I think that still to this day, she was the fastest person to complete it. Now she's the second fastest. We've had somebody complete it a little bit faster, but we haven't caught up in over a year. And this is really going to be an evaluation of, like, you had business experience, you learned AI, and then you went off and just started doing the thing like crazy. What has it been like? What have you seen? What has changed in a year and a half with your clients or business interests and stuff like that. So, Sarah, before we jump into my curiosities, do you mind taking a second and just kind of letting everybody know what your background is and what qualifies you as a business expert?

[B]

Sure, yeah, absolutely. So I have been in the game so to speak, long enough that I taught a course. I still have the manual called Introduction to the Internet. So, yeah, so I've been around a while. I was a lead trainer on behalf of Dell, and so this was a natural progression for me. But what your incredible course did for me was it gave me the confidence that I needed in this space. Right. Because as we know, AI didn't start with ChatGPT in 2022. The pioneers have been working on this, like, since the 50s. Right. So I felt late to the game. But the way that your program framed kind of this modern role, if you will, of the chief AI officer, it, it made it clear that, you know, that this is a new era and that we're not just catching up, we're leading it. And so that really shifted how I was showing up in these executive conversations. And I was able to stop downplaying what I bring to the table because the results are at this point really quantifiable and undeniable. So yeah, I had that background as really what I would say is a workplace optimization strategist. And so clearly I needed AI to be able to stay in that game. So that's how I got here.

[A]

The clients that you were working with, like they would hire you to do.

[B]

What for their businesses really implement systems that are people focused first. So I have this, I call it human optimization, but this well being background because at the end of the day, even now, a lot of the times with AI, humans are ultimately operating those systems and tools and all of these investments that companies make. So. So I bridge the two of those and that has been more important than ever with the change management required when implementing AI with humans.

[A]

Yeah, I'd like to talk about that change management in a minute. But let's kind of start with your typical client is a company that's doing eight figures plus. Is there specific industries that you tend to be attracted to or that loop you in?

[B]

No, the systems work for everybody. Right. Because we're talking about things like proactive problem solving, task management, time optimization, things of that that apply to all businesses. But that being said, I've been in the world of online marketing back before webinars when we were doing teleseminars. So since I've worked pretty much by referral only since, you know, about 2009 when I left the Dell space, it's been a lot of direct marketing, but it doesn't really matter what they're marketing.

[A]

So let's talk about, you know, obviously what, what got you interested in exploring like upskilling and AI? Like what were you seeing that said, hey, I need to pick this up to stay viable or to increase my viability.

[B]

That would be my love for ChatGPT. Yeah, I have got threads and bots for everything. Like it knows everything about my health, my, oh my dog. Like there's a whole thread dedicated to my dog that kind of.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

So that's where it started. And strangely enough, I wanted it felt like all these years later, this year and a half later, I'm still very, very Heavily we use a lot of bots, custom configured chatgpts in the work that I do, obviously we use, which we'll talk about in a minute, you know, much more robust six figure investment type tools. But I still come back to the tried and true there.

[A]

Nice. So ChatGPT is your preferred large language model?

[B]

It is, yeah. I, you know, I started just, I think like a lot of newbies do, using it as a glorified Google. Right. And then by 2023 I had given it all of my books, all of my articles, everything I had produced so that it, it knew me, it had my voice, so to speak. But by 2024, so really, you know, like I said, it feels like years, but not that long ago I had an ongoing relationship where I talk to it daily, multiple times a day, if dare I say, like all day. So it knows the team dynamics and the challenges and the people that have come and gone and the teams I work with. And that's actually one of when people start to talk to me about AI or ChatGPT. That's one of the, the little golden nuggets I like to give is, you know, start talking to it every single day. So you've built this relationship just like that assistant that's worked with you four years instead of four months.

[A]

What is that talking to it look like in your world?

[B]

Yeah, so I have of course, you know, the custom GPTs for everything. As a matter of fact, right when I left your course, I created one. So I have a custom one built just for anything related to chief AI officer work. I have my CAIO bot. Yeah. And then I've got another. So since I end up working in different departments, I've got one that's more for marketing operations, I've got one that's for customer service. And so to me, I just open those individual threads and keep the conversations going in those realms.

[A]

So you use those for your own internal operations or in supporting clients or deploying it into client businesses?

[B]

Both. So I have my personal that I would die without. And then I have set up ChatGPT for teams in the businesses and I use my personal that knows me. And all of this, the skills that I have and the experience that I have, I use it to configure, to help me configure the ones for the companies. And, and that is where I get really excited because it's such a basic, quote unquote, basic entry level tool that you can do so much with. And I know that to me, like the shiny object syndrome is probably one of the biggest drawbacks in, in the AI industry. And so I've got one for everything. So for example, the marketing operations team, there's a bot that's just their, their marketing operations coach and assistant, if you will. There's one that's for their SOPs. There's one for each individual project they run. So like video production or newsletter production and. Yeah, and I export the Trello boards from their work. Oh, I could geek out on this all day. So for example, like they were, yeah, they were having problems ordering. Like they're having problems with an inventory vendor. Right. And so I gave all the boards and they are. They already cop copy all their emails to the Trello boards. I gave it all the boards and it created a 34 page report of all the issues. They works. Yeah. And so from there you turn that into an action plan. So I've got bots for days, Chris.

[A]

You know, that's, it's amazing and it's, it's like simple but not easy, I guess is the way to say it. But what you're doing is this is a problem. And I mean your clients, like mistakes are, they have impact. It's not like, oh, that's okay. These mistakes can be very expensive. Right. Missed opportunities, missed productions, whatever. And for you to be able to take things that are already happening in the business and use ChatGPT as that synthesizer of that information to give you a 34 page, you know, error and action plan is, I mean that's worth six figures of that business at a minimum. Right. Like, it's incredible. So what is your, what has the feedback been from your clients? When you initially said, hey, I'm going to start introducing AI into what I'm doing with you, did you let them know that, were they encouraging it? What was their thoughts?

[B]

Oh, that's a great question. So because it's been super exciting to watch how that develops. So I kind of behind the scenes with this marketing operations team. I started really simple with just chatgpt for teams and setting up those bots. And then fast forward to. Because marketing operations, we work so closely with marketing. For example, our metrics are not like Facebook ad spend and you know, cost to acquire a customer and all that. Our metrics are the resources of human time. Where did this human time get applied to projects and what was the outcome? And so the next tool I implemented was an AI enabled time tracking, which is timely. And so now you're able to marry. Okay, this is where you marry the two. Right? This is where the Time was spent. This was the ROI of that project. Well, because that took off so well, that same company then comes tapping on my shoulder, hey, you know, over here. Yeah, over here in this customer service department. And I mean, hello, customer service is totally ripe for this. And so that's where things got so super exciting. And I was fortunate enough to get to play with the tool ada, which is the, that is, you know, now you're looking at a six figure investment and you're looking at a several months to launch. But that has been like some, I think super exciting stats on that. So we went live with ADA on Monday at about noon and they were 6,500 tickets in arrears, Zendesk tickets. And we went. And that's, we went live just with email. We have still not gone live with voice. That's like next week. Those tickets were down to zero before the end of business day on Friday of that same week. And so that is just then. Oh, and then the, the ripple effect of that right now. You, you, no chargebacks. Not a single negative BBB review has happened since then.

[A]

So I would imagine that that was probably a big pain point for that client.

[B]

Oh absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Major savings there.

[A]

So for those like, we've got all kinds of people listening. Some of these listeners are definitely business owners might find themselves in the same situation. What was the. Hey, we've got a problem, problem identified, solution architected, vendor selected, technology implemented. What was the length of that process?

[B]

I would say that was about a 90 day. And of course I used my CAIO bot to spec out everything for that. Everything, everything you could imagine to spec, you know, starting from the statement of work all the way to the sla. Right. And risk mitigation. Yeah, risk mitigation plan, all of that. The Google sheet, Excel, whatever you want to use the spreadsheet to evaluate the different tools. All of that was done from that personal CIO bot. And then I, yeah, we selected the tool and from there that team. That tool is a pretty robust rollout. It comes with a very helpful team. You're meeting once a week, but I'd say about 90 days because we found the tool pretty quickly. So yeah, that I could see taking longer. But that team's been great and like, so we're just now about to bring branch out into. And another thing worth noting about that is it forced this department to clean up some things because ADA is going to pull from your knowledge base. Right. So you had to clean up that knowledge base in Zendesk that the humans use as well. So it has just been an incredibly exciting ripple effect, I'd say.

[A]

What was the size of their. Of that customer service team? I guess prior to Aida, we were.

[B]

Looking at about a little under 20 reps. They get a thousand calls a day.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

That kind of thing. And. And it did, you know, it did show some performance issues, if you will. Right when ADA steps into the game. And it's incredible. Yeah. It starts shedding a light on issues that need to be fixed.

[A]

That's the exact kind of case study that business owners want to hear is like something simple, not, you know, we're not trying to put anybody on the moon here. We're just. Customer service has issues. We'd like our clients to have better experience when they reach out to us. How can AI help? So that's awesome. So you just launched the email side and Voice is happening next week?

[B]

Yeah, I think we'll go live with Voice next week. Yeah. And so I think. Let's see. Yeah, I think we went live about end of April with that. So we're just about two months in and we're already to a 43% AR rate versus the target of 30%. So we're up 13 points there. We got a 63% contained rate. So we're, you know, performing. Already performing 9 percentage points above that industry median of 34%. And that's just email. And I think it's also. Yeah, I think. I know. It's so exciting to me. I think it's also worth noting that. And first of all, I had. I did. This would be my caveat, I did a very specific change management plan before you tell the whole department AI is coming in, and I used AI for all of that, AI to create the slides, AI voiceover to do all of that. Right. But it's also worth noting there was concern that because the demographic is older people, and I was like, look, they are every. When you call your hospital, your pharmacist, your bank, your credit card company, you're already interacting. And so, yeah, this is in what people would consider to be more of a tricky market as well. And it's flying.

[A]

If you're enjoying this episode and want to learn more about how to start using AI at work, we've made it easy for you. For just $1, you can have full access to the Chief AI Officer community, which will give you additional training, custom software, daily Training, calls on AI tools, using AI automations, getting more from your ChatGPT sessions, and the business of being an AI consultant. Simply go to chiefaiofficer.com insiders to accelerate your AI journey. Now back to the episode. That's what I tell businesses. AI is not some like, sexy thing that comes in. It's an event that all of a sudden it's like, ta da. It's a process. And it starts with the things that aren't sexy. Like, hey, we got too many customer service tickets. We're not really doing a great job. We've got tons of process that's probably needs to be optimized. With or without AI Ta da. We're now ahead of industry standards. I would imagine that the morale inside the customer service department of that company has improved considerably.

[B]

Absolutely. Yeah. There was a leadership change as a result of this. And I go around and do individual calls. I'm in the process of that right now. And it's been super exciting to see people say the same thing. I was apprehensive at first, but now, now I love it. And yeah, it's a whole culture shift. And again, when done correctly with that change management piece, I feel like. And that's what I do. Right. I solve business problems. And I always say that I treat AI as a partner, not a product. So I'm not just chasing the latest product. What is the problem and what's the best AI solution and how do we get the humans on board?

[A]

I like that a lot. So business owners listening to this, they're going to say, definitely interested after hearing this and the other, you know, anecdotal situations I'm hearing from my peers, but I'm concerned that my employees are going to revolt, that there are going to be less human resources required, things like that. So that change management is. It's not the exciting part, but it's. You miss, you make a misstep there and there can be big trouble with your business. So how are you advising clients? Or what was that change management process and that narrative look like for you?

[B]

Yeah. So I. People want to know what's in it for me. Right. That comes back to like, yeah. And so for the change management piece, I made sure, like, they don't care. I mean, I don't want to say they don't, but. Right. They don't wake up thinking, oh, I hope the company's saving money today. They wake up thinking, I got bills to pay. Right. Of a thing. So I positioned the whole change management plan, like, what's in it for them?

[A]

Love it.

[B]

Like I said, used AI for all of that so that they saw the benefits and let them and let Them know that was one thing I, I was fortunate enough they do a survey, engagement, engagement surveys, employee engagement surveys at this place. So I knew that like leadership transparency was a pain point for that department. So I was transparent that, hey, we're not going to know all the timelines. You can absolutely bet that we're going to hit hurdles. This is going to be a fa phased Rollo out. And here's the pros and cons of that. So you know as much transparency but positioned to your audience, which in this case is a frightened employee, most likely concerned about their job.

[A]

Have any of the departments that you've kind of had that AI discussion with, have any of them been like, hell yeah, let's go for it, no resistance, no friction?

[B]

Um, let's.

[A]

No.

[B]

Well, first of all, no, that's, that's. Well, until I get over that first hump. And then the conversation, literally the conversation in the last month was like, I want AI to touch every aspect of the business now. And I'm like, yeah, you do.

[A]

Yeah, nice.

[B]

So, yeah, which led to, by the way, that was another. So then next thing you know, over to like the newsletters and this, I wanted to circle back to this about the bots. I like to issue warnings. So for example, when I rolled it out to the team, I say, look, this is like fire. You know, we're giving you the tool of fire. You can either run around like a caveman and catch the village on fire, or you can use it to heat the, you can use it to heat the homes and, and cook some food kind of a thing.

[A]

That's right, yeah.

[B]

And so for example, one thing we know that chat, for example is good at is, is writing articles, right. And in our experience, we, this company, it's probably professional copywriters, that kind of thing. It's. And I know some professional copywriters have gotten it to that level, but even that, even with writing articles. So we've now just recently completely gone to chat, writing the articles. And so I didn't just configure one bot, it's three bots. The first bot writes the article, the second bot fact checks the article, and the third bot creates the prompts that because we need print resolution, it's a printed newsletter, creates the prompts that we then use in mid journey to create the print resolution images, things like that. So I think, you know, the strategy behind it is everything.

[A]

So with these professional copywriters, I would imagine that they would be particularly resistant to it. I guess there's two extremes. Extremely resistant or extremely bullish on using it for their craft. Because there's no question if the written word is your output, you have competition when it comes to Claude or. I don't know about Gemini so much, but people talk about Claude a lot for the writing or GPT. What is the sentiment in the, the copywriting space? Because believe it or not, the first couple of guests that we had on this podcast, one of them was John Benson, who was very bullish on it. The other one was Stefan Georgi, very bullish on it. But I also talked to companies like Agora and things like that, and if it's being used, they're not. The leadership isn't even aware of it. So kind of, what's that paradigm over there?

[B]

I was just about to say that. And so I was involved in the past kind of behind the scenes. I'm very well aware of what John was creating a couple years ago. And so I know his stance on that, which is amazing. And then the vice president of marketing at this one of these companies is in Stefan's mastermind. And so he's the one that oversees the stable of copywriters. They've been with him forever. They know the voice. That particular company is a supplement. So it's a very specific what can and cannot be said. And I was going to say that exact same thing. I bet they're using it and not telling him. I would imagine they, they would have to be because that we, we have a significant amount of copy they go through there and it's really, really good. You know, it's a very, like I said, very, very metric driven, performance driven scenario. So. Yep, I bet they're using it. I hope they're using it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. You do. Let, let's talk about where do you think, because we talk about this, we just wrapped up an AI consultant certification training in our community and one of the questions was, what do I charge as an AI expert? What are that. And it kind of goes back to that, that, you know that joke about guy calls a plumber, plumber shows up, plumber spends five minutes, gives the guy a thousand dollar bill. Guys like thousand bucks for five minutes. The guy said, no, that thousand dollars is for the 20 years it took me to know exactly what to fix in five minutes. Right. Like it's, you're paying for the result, not necessarily the hours put into the effort. And that's a challenging paradigm, let's say for some businesses. The other day we had a request for some custom AI powered enterprise grade software. Right. We built it we give them the invoice and then the guy. It was almost a six figure invoice. The client says, okay, when can I get it? And the answer was by the end of the week. Right. And the client was like, wait a minute, this much for something you can build by the end of the week? And you know what my response was? It's if you want us to build it and just wait to give it to you, it's still going to cost the same. Right. Like, so how are, like, how are you, what do you see as far as like the ethics or the. If you've got copywriters who are using AI, but not necessarily letting the, the client know, but the data is showing that it's effective, that it's high quality output, I doubt they're seeing a discount in pricing because AI is poor, Right?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

So how are you on both sides of that table? Somebody who is providing a service that now takes you a lot less time than it used to, and somebody who's buying a service that you know, hey, wait a minute, like that's a big bill. But they didn't spend that much time doing this.

[B]

Yeah. So one thing. Yeah, it does. And so in this particular couple of these situations. Cause I mentioned one's supplements, one's like survival gear in these situations because it's more of that heavy direct marketing. Like we're getting more and we're getting it faster and you know what I mean? And then therefore we're making more money and we're making more money faster. So however somebody accomplishes that is still a win for us. And I know that setup could vary based on the situation.

[A]

Do you get pushback from, from clients when they're like, we, we should be getting a discount because of this vendor that you're bringing is using AI. Is there anything.

[B]

No, I haven't seen that. But I do have to tell you, one of the clients I ended up working with is one of the ones in the beginning that you and I had had a conversation because I loved how your course teaches that, you know, if somebody's absolutely not interested, don't try to, you know, push the square peg into the round hole there. Go find the person that's interested. Well, one of the people I'm still working with is somebody who initially wasn't interested and after there was. That's the person that now is saying, I want AI to touch every aspect of my business. And that's in a year. Like a. Yeah, that's actually exactly a year. I started with him in June of last year. So that's exactly one year later.

[A]

So for any, any of you business owners that are listening to this, this will be you, right? And the reality is you, you, you don't have a choice. And Sarah, I've been like kind of explaining this to businesses recently when we go and do the in persons, I'm like, look, if you start today, you gain an advantage. Certainly you can produce more, you can produce it faster, you can produce at a higher quality, less resources, all that stuff. If you're AI enabled, if your competition doesn't do that, they can't really, they can't compete long term with you. But if you start today and you start to get this momentum, what happens is you open up bandwidth, which means that you have more bandwidth to put into AI, which means that you have more bandwidth to continue. Like it's this exponential optimization of your operation, right? If your competitor six months from now says, oh, I see, they're using AI, let's start using it too so that we can stay competitive. It's already too late, right? Like for that competitor to catch up to me, they would have to be producing, you know, better, faster, stronger than we are now, just to catch up and then to actually perform better than us, they would have to be using AI even better than we are now. The likelihood of that happening in a six month period, as long as we continue, my company continues to introduce AI and to upskill our employees and to make sure that the leadership's clear on it, using it in strategy, like we're not going to be catch up to a bull. I guess that's not really a word, but you see what I'm saying.

[B]

I see what you're saying. I'm sitting here thinking, I could not agree more. And it literally is the first thing I tell people. Start now. Start now. If there was one piece of advice I had for somebody, it would be start now every single day. And I, even with all of this and like, so we've got, you know, multiple tools going. Just yesterday I was talking to one of the marketing operations coordinators and I was saying how you still feel if you don't have somebody almost solely dedicated to this every day making sure you are falling behind the tools we just use. I took some PTO like a month and a half ago and since then emails have come out from ChatGPT, from Slack, from Timely and I think even Trello. All the tools we're already using have made so many AI initiatives and upgrades in the last month that we're going to have to carve out a week to go at least to go work with all those and figure out what it is and make sure we're taking full advantage of it.

[A]

So I know I'm kind of bouncing around here, but I'm very curious because you're like, you're really embedded with some companies and like you've had the ability to, to work to introduce AI as that, that chief AI officer, that subject matter expert on AI and business. You've had like a year to. Let's test this. Oh, that didn't work. Oh, this is working. Oh, wow. Let's compound this or whatever. So you've been able to see these results not just in a, A discreet say client says hey, can you build me a custom GPT? And then you're gone. You've been able to do this like continue to roll it out and see the impact. Right. And I think that's a unique perspective because not many individuals can and the ones who have that, that like length of time have been doing it probably in an agency and they haven't been as immersed in it as you have been with your clients. So that's why I'm kind of bouncing around. Cause I got so many questions about somebody who's gone. So Deke, on the question of the advancements of the tools and like you said, hey, we're going to need to carve out some time. What do you recommend for other companies that have kind of, they've established their AI stack, they're using it, but like now custom GPTs, I can select the model. It used to be just what was suspected to be 4.0. Now I can do O3 in a custom GPT. Right. How do you maintain, I guess the appropriate level of upskilling that is mapping to the advancements in the technology in these companies.

[B]

Yep. So that said, this is fun because that was just yesterday and actually I wish I'd figured it out a bit sooner. But again it's like in the last month, but that's how fast things go. Right in that. So one thing, when you invest in a tool like Aida, you have to have an ADA manager and that person will continue. Yes, it's very heavy in the beginning when you're coaching and training and now Ada's answering these things, dare I say, better than some humans. And so that is even like we will have the Aida will be the email manager and every single day, forever, probably that person will check in and make sure Ada's still. Because new, new products happen, new promotion Right. There's promotions, I mean direct marketing. Right. There's a promotion every day of the week, text, direct mail, you name it. And so there's that portion, there is person that will handle just the ADA management of the phone rollout and then that might shift to another because there's the coaching and training and then there's the managing. Well, that is what I just realized yesterday because the marketing operations coordinators, the project managers, if you will, because they're getting so much more lethal with their time.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And innovative, by the way. That's something I always tell people. I knew it would make them more productive and more efficient. I was shocked at how much more innovative and then that led to me needing to really make sure I'm building dual modality bots. Because if you lock them down, you're afraid they're going to hallucinate and you lock them down where they can only, you know, just the facts, ma', am, then you lose that ideation. So I program dual modality and then you teach the people to use dual modality. So they're being very specific with the, with the tool, you know, is this and, and, and the tool's even trained to give them links to the SOPs and Trello and that kind of a thing. But just yesterday I told somebody, you know what we're going to need to shift now that everybody's so much leaner. We need to shift the projects around so that this person that is going to be their sole focus is, let's call it like AI project management. Because just those tools alone and those are, that's, you know, just a few there. Oh, I don't know if I'm timely was the other one. So timely came out with up. Every single tool we use has come out with AI updates. Emails at Trello was the other one. Yeah, so the Explorer 5 that we're already. And I said, well, you know, we're behind, we've got to catch up. So we're going to carve out time and that's going to be that person's one of their main projects is making. Because that uplifts everybody. Right. Every single project is touched by that. That's what I told him. I said, we're getting caught in a catch 22 that we don't have the time to allot to that. But by not making the time to allot to that, we're, we're not allotting the time to the thing that's going to save us the time. So that would be what I would Say you better start, you know, having somebody that that's their focus is making the most of AI and that's not even chasing the new shiny tools, that's making the most of the investments you're already making.

[A]

So that's an interesting perspective for the org chart. And when you're talking about this, these are actual people who have that role, not AI agents or bots, right?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

People. Okay, so this role is. So I'm seeing we've got a chief AI officer who as Diamandis describes it, it's somebody who understands business and they're out there not, they don't need to know the technical stuff, the data science side of it, but they're out there paying attention to what's happening in the marketplace and saying, ooh, ADA looks like it could be a big win for us. Right. So they got a foot in both worlds. They're like the AI forward, researcher, investigator, but they're also still maintaining production within the business or the enterprise. So you're saying that, okay, we got the chief AI officer and now underneath the chief AI officer almost in each department where you've got a heavy investment in AI powered process that you've got somebody, it's almost like a sub chief AI officer just for that department's AI usage.

[B]

Yes, in multiple departments. So we just this week, because we were involved in the architecture of it. Right. So we were very heavily involved and now we're turning just this week and said we're about three months in, we turned over to somebody in the customer service department is now trained. Okay, you're now going to manage ADA for just email and that means for about 30 minutes every single day you're going to go in and make sure ada because that's that human oversight, Right. Make sure ADA is still doing what it's got to do. You're going to feed it the information about that week's promotion so that it has that to pull from that. Right. And then over in marketing operations where that with that team is using the slack, the timely, The Trello, the ChatGPT for teams, just yesterday I told somebody, okay, you are going to need to be over making the most of those tools that everybody else on this team is using.

[A]

So does that person, because of that new expectation or the skill required to fulfill that expectation, does their compensation increase?

[B]

So I could see how it could in some companies, however, the uniqueness of this particular situation is that I was also involved in hiring this person. And so I hired this person for the first time knowing they had this AI enabled background, right? And so for that person, it's the same. So they knew the agreement coming in. It's the same amount of time they're working. And these are like, in this particular case, these are employees, right? They clock in, clock out, that kind of thing. And so it just so happens that during her time, instead of her working on video production, which is what we're doing, we're moving video production over to somebody else's plate now that she's dialed it in and, and automated it and things. And then now her bandwidth has opened up and this is. And she's excited to do it because she would much rather be. She's like, I'm getting paid to learn these tools and to use these tools. Yeah. So I think, you know, proper hiring and expectations that to me, I always come back to the human piece of this.

[A]

So for the audience that's listening to this, what was just described, I've been hearing that a lot, is that the people who are invited or on your team are part of the AI champions, right? They, they're loving it, right? Like, they are thrilled. And here's what I know as a business owner is that friend of mine called it shower time. If I've got an employee shower time, right? When they're not on the clock and they're like, you know, thinking about my business, they're walking the dog. And they're kind of like, how could we sell that? They're thinking about my business. That's the ideal situation for your. Your team, right? Like, they are. You're not just something that they do between nine to five, you are a big part of their life. If you can get those people, those AI champions dialed in the way that Sarah was just suggesting and that all of a sudden they're like, I can't believe I'm getting paid. You know what they're doing in their free time? They're geeking out on AI and everything that they're learning and they're not billing you necessarily, it's not like client work, but everything they learn because they're so enthusiastic about this new opportunity, this new role, this exciting experience they're having, they're bringing it back. It's only making them better for your own business. So if you're a business owner and you don't have, you haven't done any effort to identify, like, hey, who's interested in kind of being part of our AI Council or whatever, that'd be a great exercise. You find those people and things really start to move. So for business owners who are listening to this, who are still listening and not doing with AI, what is the. Just so that they kind of understand the pace of change. What has been the biggest difference when you first started doing this for your clients a year and a half ago to now?

[B]

Biggest change. So I guess the biggest change is that it's more just in that year. It's so much more normalized, if you will. What was a. Yeah, what was a little more foreign and a little scarier a year ago now I was thinking just the other day I was at an appointment and I said something, oh, do you use ChatGPT? She's like, oh, everybody uses it. And I thought, oh, are they now? I don't know. I, yeah, I work from home, I'm a hermit. So. And then, and then it's been really super, incredibly exciting. Obviously I completely geek out on this. But one of the people on my team that was not very tech savvy and had one of the marketing operations, I mean, tech savvy, yeah, she's of course remote and using Trello, all these types of things. Right. But not super tech savvy. Now she's telling me that like a delivery driver comes to her house and they're talking about ChatGPT, you know, she's like, yeah, exactly. And she's using, oh, I used it to troubleshoot something with my, at college and so it's just so I think much more mainstream even in that in the last year.

[A]

So I have to agree with you. We through our like free trainings and our paid trainings and everything we do, I, I ran the tally and We've trained over 10,000 people in the past year. It's a lot. Right. And one of the things that, that we, we started doing was before the training, if it was a group training, we'd say hey, just on a scale of 1 to 5 with 1 being I'm brand new to this 5, I'm a chief AI officer or you know like an expert at it. Where are you on the AI journey? And it used to be even at the beginning of this year, 1, 2, 221-11-311. Right. In the past six weeks started being like threes, fours and fives and I was like, oh wow, this is, that happened quick. But when I would query people and I'd say, hey, so you're a, you're self identified four on the scale. Tell me about it. They're like, I'm an a ChatGPT power user. What are you doing writing emails. Summarizing documents. So you and I know that that's just the tip of the like. Like, that is baby steps. And if anybody's listening, like, please don't be offended. That's just. That's a great place to get started. But that is not expertise. Right. Are you. Are you seeing the same thing that people are like? Oh, yeah, I'm really good at AI. And then upon investigation, you realize they're really just. Maybe they're regular users, but they're regular users at a basic level. Or are you finding that people are really, like, keeping up with where you are?

[B]

I have not found yet. Because I would. Yes, I have not found people yet keeping up with where I am. And I think part of that is because this was just such a natural inclination for what I. Or a natural evolution for what I already did. Right. The systems thinking that I'm wired this way, that I thought everybody was wired this way, and they're not. That this was just like me going from, you know, into the Ferrari kind of a thing. So now I'm racing that much faster. But I have seen what you're talking about with, for example, the project managers. You know, they learn this one thing, and that is great. That's better than nothing. But I'm like, no, you've got to be innovating. And it's been still me stepping in to innovate and create things. Another example, we're coming up on a quarter here. And so I'm like, okay, that's great. You've been using Timely. It's an AI enabled to track your time. That's great. But you've now got to come to the quarterly meeting and have interpreted that you data to inform your next quarter. And so what I did, because I could see the gap, I created a bot for that. There's a quarterly bot trained on now. You give it the data, it's gonna, you know, so there's definitely room for. I've seen a lot of room for people to continue to grow. And really, like you said, you're just barely scratching the surface. And there's so much more that we are excited for you to take advantage of.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that you might be particularly capable of answering this question. There's people on here, they're listening to this. Their interests have definitely increased over the past six months about using AI and they're ready to get started. What would be some advice for you to give them? A, on finding the talent, and B, how do they know that this talent's actually not Just using it to write emails and summarize documents that they're actually like chief AI officer level capability.

[B]

That's a great question. So for finding the talent, I've been super fortunate that I've been plugged into this world, the same world as you. Right. For so long. This online marketing world that's obviously super embracing it. We can't open up one of our social media platforms without seeing the latest and greatest. But in terms of like, screening, that's where I come back to what is. You mean, like, look around. What is your business problem? What is your pain point? Where is somebody overwhelmed? Where is part of your business underserved? Ask that person how they would use AI to solve it. Because you don't even have to know that. Like, we knew the problem needed to be solved and we knew the tool was out there before we knew our tool of choice was going to be ada, which was a great choice, by the way. I kind of veer away from the people that just like I said, chasing the latest. You can spend all day, every day, as you very well know. And I got sucked into that at first. I was like, oh, how can I keep up with all these tools? You don't. You figure out what the. You keep up with the problems that need to be solved and the places that you can tweak something and really make a big difference. And then don't worry, there's a tool out there to solve it.

[A]

I think that's great advice for any business owner. Like, because that, that tool overwhelm is one of the first things that people. How do you keep up? Well, you don't. You pick a stack that works for you and then you continue to pay attention to the marketplace. But please don't delay the impact of AI while you look for the perfect tool. And you say, oh, but this one just came out with yes, so what? The one you're using will have it in a week or two anyway. Right? Like, exactly. That's the advice that I give people. Well, this is awesome. So, Sarah, are you producing thought leadership content? Are you lecturing on this? Are you sharing any of these insights? Because again, like, you're early in on this. You've been actively chief AI officering for, you know, a year and a half using generative AI. And it wasn't like you needed to go look for clients. You had immediate application. As soon as you learned something, you were like, hey, let's plug this in. So you've got your 10,000 hours a lot sooner than anybody else. Are you Sharing insights anywhere.

[B]

So that's funny that you would ask that. I'm going to take this as one of those universal signs because, yeah, I haven't yet. However, I have started having meetings with a friend who owns a computer training company, we'll say, and her client roster list, it is Apple, Google, you know, Hyatt Hotels. She's based out of Texas. So all of that, she's into the government, all of the Texas departments of kind of a thing, a lot of Shell, a lot of big names. And I've told her, you know, we should probably, we should probably be reaching out to them and start having some conversations. And it doesn't have to be, of course, your Google or your Apple. And she's like, really? You think? I'm like, yeah, I'm pretty sure. And I told her, I was like, yeah. And, you know, you said this. Well, because I said, you know, we haven't missed the boat, but it's in the dock ready to take off.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's a great, great perspective. I don't know about you, but like you mentioned earlier, in 2023, you were already using it. You thought you were late to the game. Me too. Right. I was like, oh, my gosh, 2024, I thought, wow, this is the year, like businesses, they kind of played with it. 2023, they know they need to start using it now. Didn't happen. But 2025, it's like, this is my experience, right? Like, it is high demand, but we got. We find this situation, right? Like, there's high demand, there's low supply. And we all know what happens with supply and demand in that situation. There's. But what's. What compounds this issue, makes it even harder for businesses, is that there's no efficiency in the marketplace. I may want to pay premium rates, maybe not like Deloitte or whatever kind of rates, but I want to hire a Sarah. Where do I find them? Right? Like, like that's. So this market is. The demand is increasing, the talent isn't increasing at the velocity that could keep up with the demand. So it's an interesting situation. Are you taking on other clients right now?

[B]

Yeah, I'm always having those conversations. And you're, you know, another thing I thought of right now when you mentioned that was I also feel for business owners because it's hard to cut through the noise. I'm somebody I have never mentioned, except for LinkedIn videos, I have never once mentioned AI on, for example, my Facebook page or anything like that. Right. Because I'm busy Working on it. And it's. Yeah. And so I can imagine it's hard to cut through the noise because you open any of your social media feeds, for example, and you're seeing AI content that's coming across as expertise. But those of us who know can tell it was generated by AI just for years. Yeah, exactly. And that is a skill set is generating content for social media. That's not what business owners are hiring me to do. So I'm working on the other things that are, you know, these, these things that demand an impressive ROI at a fast pace kind of a thing. So, yeah, I do feel for business owners having to cut through the noise and find those people. It's a good thing you've got a program.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I, I tell you, and it's kind of changed now. We're no longer really certifying chief AI officers. We built up a huge cyclically, but not as open as, as we were in the past. But are you comfortable sharing contact information if somebody listening to this is interested in engaging Sarah Flower Services as Chief AI officer or AI advisory or AI trainer or anything?

[B]

Absolutely, yeah. You can. Yeah. You think email is good?

[A]

Email's great. If you've got some specific channels of social where you tend to whether or not you're posting, if that tends to be where you're like communicating, anything like that I think would be helpful. So. Because again, folks listening to this, we talk to a lot of experts, experts and quote, unquote experts. And what Sarah's doing, I've wanted her to happen to be on this podcast for a long time. She's in the nitty gritty, she's in the trenches, she's dealing with the problem. She's handling change management, she's convincing the leadership. Like she's doing all of the roles that you as a business would want somebody to be able to do. And she's a fantastic example of what this new definition of a chief AI officer is capable of. So, Sarah, if you are share it, let's get some people talking to you.

[B]

Absolutely. So, yeah, you can see videos with some of my takes on AI at my LinkedIn which is. Is it Sarah Flowers? My website for this, what I call kind of my boutique consultancy practice, if you will, where I do have, you know, some partners and things [e-mail] and then my email there is Sarah S A R A growwithflowers.com and for listeners.

[A]

I'll make sure that everything that we just talked about is in the show notes, for sure. Before we wrap up, I just want to remind everybody, inefficient market, right. Somebody goes out there and they learn the stuff like Sarah, Sarah can't work with 50 clients. Right. Like the bandwidth of. Because the demand is so high. Once somebody finds out that, oh, she's good at this, he's good at that, whatever that individual or even small agency, their bandwidth gets consumed right away. So if this is something you're interested in doing, I wouldn't hesitate because, like, the hunt for talent is the hardest part of this. The implementation of AI into your business is not complicated. It's not. Doesn't have to be terribly expensive for the technology, at least for the talent. Yes. But like, if you decide, oh, I'm going to wait till next week and do this and you start looking next week, you're not going to find somebody very easily or quickly. So if you've got the chance, if Sarah has bandwidth, I would reach out. If this is of interest to you, I can certainly vouch for the clients that she's working with. They're no joke. They're, they're, they're players. And for them to have to trust Sarah to introduce this into their businesses goes a. Says a lot about her capability and credibility. So anyway, Sarah, thank you so much for being on this. I'd love to see you in the community more. Hint, hint. I know you're busy, but the type of stuff that you like, the insight that you can share doesn't come from, oh, I watched a video. It comes from, I got my ass kicked trying to do this. Here's how I'll never do that again. This way. Here's the tool I'll use. Here's why we chose ada. Like all that stuff that came from repetitions, like in the wild, it's priceless information. So thank you so much. Where are you headed today? Are you client engagements today?

[B]

Yeah, Every day? Pretty much. Yeah. So I'm still here in Rena Del Rey. Yeah. And we'll hop right into AI. Conversation. Conversation. Like I said, I just started that one yesterday. About. Okay, we've got to, we got to focus somebody on just keeping up. And so I'm very excited about that and, and wish I'd done it sooner. So that seems to be the takeaway, right?

[A]

Yeah. Awesome. So in, in closing, and I'm going to make this invitation to anybody that's out there, Sarah will be in Orange county at the end of July doing some AI training, probably in Newport beach if you want to come down, just to hang for the day and kind of see how we're doing this with primarily lower middle market and above size clients, a lot of YPO forum members and stuff. I'd love to invite you and I'll send you the details. I know getting out of the office for a day is kind of a tricky but would love to have you there. And if anybody is listening to this from Orange county and it's prior to the week of July 21st and you're interested in coming to join it, it's a free one day thing that we do for executives exclusively, but we've got some seats available and I'd love to see you there. So if you're interested, Sarah, I'll send you the info and if you can make it, I'd love to have you.

[B]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah, I can get. Yeah. Twist my arm to get down to Newport.

[A]

Yeah, we were at a Billy's. Billy's at the beach. I don't know if you know where that is, but that was where we did it last time. So anyway, awesome. All right, guys, go do some AI. We'll see you on the next episode. Thanks again, Sarah. Thanks for tuning in to Using AI at at Work. Don't forget to subscribe for more conversations about how to use AI at work and a special thank you to our sponsor, Chief AI Officer for empowering businesses with AI education and training. Visit their website for a free AI Readiness Assessment and AI Strategy Guide to help you get started using AI at work. That's www.chiefaiofficer.com. so thanks to our producer Evan Desaunier for making this episode possible. Follow us on Twitter at the handle usingaiatwork and visit www.usingaiatwork.com for free resources to help you harness AI in your.