Podcast Summary: Using AI at Work

Episode 62: Using AI for Custom Workflow Solutions with Andrew Amann

Host: Chris Daigle
Guest: Andrew Amann
Date: July 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features Andrew Amann, a seasoned AI product builder and consultancy leader, discussing the practical integration of AI into workplace workflows and operations. The conversation dives into real-world applications, advice for aspiring AI consultants, the current state of AI adoption in businesses, agency growth challenges, AI solution pricing, and strategies for non-technical business leaders seeking to leverage AI. Emphasis is on moving beyond AI "hype" into effective, scalable workflow solutions—tailored to the specific needs and realities of modern organizations.

Key Topics & Insights

Andrew Amann’s Background & Approach

• Deep Systems Thinking Roots:

  • Started building AI products in 2016; founded consultancy after an early career in nuclear submarine systems and supply chain automation.
  • Systems mindset and process optimization expertise informs his approach to AI automation.

  "Having that brain and that knowledge around systems thinking has allowed me to go into a lot of these organizations, understand their main problem... and go in and fix that." — Andrew Amann [02:30]

• Startup Studio Experience:

  • Built 14 products "from zero to one", learning valuable lessons in iteration, failure, and resilience.

Advice for Aspiring AI Consultants & Intrapreneurs

• "Learn the System First":

  • Young would-be founders should first join established companies to learn how enterprises truly operate before launching startups.

  "Learn the system, learn the process, get beat up a bunch, get a bad boss, know what it's like to be mistreated a little bit and then say, I'm not going to do that to my employees and then go start a company." — Andrew [06:22]

• Practical AI Opportunities for Career Professionals:

  • Professionals within organizations have unique opportunities to identify and automate painful, repetitive processes using AI—without needing to leave their jobs.
  • Industries like manufacturing and professional services are ripe for AI-driven workflow enhancements.

• Automate the Tedious:

  • Target "giant handbooks, giant processes, giant workflows"; repetitive tasks that everyone dreads (“crap work”) are optimal for automation.

  "Those are the places that are going to get the biggest returns. And that is where AI excels is summarizing and refining giant handbooks, giant processes, giant workflows." — Andrew [09:34]

AI Adoption: Current State in Businesses

• Surface-Level AI Usage:

  • Most companies claim “we use AI", but usage is often limited to email assistance and document summarization.

  "The two things we always hear... emails, summarize, documents." — Chris [12:23]

• Misconceptions & Overconfidence:

  • Businesses believe they're AI-mature but are mainly copy-pasting from ChatGPT and using basic Zapier-like automations, not integrating AI into core workflows.

  "Yes, but in the wrong direction. ... It's duct-taping and band-aiding stuff together." — Andrew [12:40]

• The Real Future: Integrated AI Workflows

  • The future is workplace applications with LLMs seamlessly embedded; manual copy-pasting will disappear as tools natively support AI.

  "In one year, you will not be copy-pasting out of ChatGPT. ... It’s going to have a large language model baked in." — Andrew [13:41]

Building Custom AI Solutions: Agency Perspective

• Beyond Off-the-Shelf Automation:

  • While simple automations suit small, one-off needs, robust solutions require experienced teams who can manage edge cases and complex workflows.
  • Agencies need elite product managers and technical talent to orchestrate deterministic, reliable results.

  "Those tools are great and they solve a specific problem, but it's a $5,000 problem. We're solving hundreds of thousands of dollars per problem." — Andrew [16:24]

• Where Simple Tools Break:

  • DIY or no-code automations (Zapier, N8N) are highly limited—especially when department-to-department communication or nuanced business logic is required.

  "Where it breaks is the communication between departments." — Andrew [18:04]

  • True value comes when AI is trained on company-specific data and workflows, not public/prepackaged solutions.

The Power of ‘Agent’ Architecture

• Specialized AI Agents for Subdomains:

  • Effective AI involves "agents" specialized for each workflow or data slice, coordinated with clarity and QAable outputs.

  "When you break it down to small parts, you can actually do QA on it." — Andrew [21:47]

• Orchestration Over One-Offs:

  • Rather than relying on a single prompt for all, orchestrate multiple agents for deterministic, trustable outputs.

Scaling & Operating an AI Consultancy

• Talent and Retention:

  • Keys are hiring and keeping top PMs and engineers—helped by providing stimulating, varied, cutting-edge projects, and a healthy culture.

  "Our culture is something that people want to stay for and work for. ... They also want to be challenged, and they also want to be on the cutting edge of technology." — Andrew [30:01]

• Growth Approach:

  • Organic, steady growth (20–30% per year); avoid over-extending or diluting expertise to scale too quickly.

• Finding Clients in the “Wild West”:

  • Most new clients arrive via referrals, thought leadership (LinkedIn), and multiple lead sources (SEO, paid, content).

  "There's agencies popping up every day... Upwork is flooded with engineers that say they can do exactly what we do. I don't know how you go through the noise unless you have a trusted referral." — Andrew [27:29]

Pricing and Value of AI Transformation

• Beyond Hourly/Time-Based Pricing:

  • Pricing is difficult; value-based methods make more sense as AI accelerates development and collapses timelines.

  "The maxim, you're from engineering. Good, fast, cheap, pick two. Right. That paradigm doesn't exist anymore." — Chris [35:04]

• Client Mindset Shifts Needed:

  • Clients must appreciate value as outcome, not effort expended—especially as "crap work" is eliminated and strategic impact increases.

• Consulting ≠ robots:

  • The true value is in high-level product management in close coordination with client teams, not just shipping tools.

  "If you hire a robot to do the solution you're hiring, you're solving for nobody. ... The AI will be left on the corners collecting dust." — Andrew [37:45]

Governing AI and Data Security

• Clarifying Privacy Concerns:

  • Good enterprise AI tools (OpenAI Enterprise, Microsoft, Google) do not retain or train on client data; agencies test and verify this claim.

  "Your data is going to be destroyed the second it's prompted and that data is not going to be used to train the model. Now, is that true? I hope so." — Andrew [42:05]

• Emphasis on Ecosystem Security:

  • Businesses should prefer AI solutions embedded in their established cloud workspace (Google, Microsoft) for maximum data consistency and security, even if LLM performance marginally lags the bleeding-edge model.

• Layered Obfuscation Methods:

  • Where needed, agency expertise can obfuscate sensitive data before prompting AI.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Career Paths in AI:

  "You don't have to leave your company to do this, right? ... That's a 90% savings." — Andrew [07:45, 09:34]

• On Agency Value:

  “We are that AI consultancy where you get top-level product managers that are going to train the people that are using the product ... An AI workflow automation that has nothing to do with AI but solves your digital transformation problem.” — Andrew [24:59]

• On Cross-Department AI:

  "When AI comes along, we're trying to just use the same framework that ... human in department A needs to work with human, department B — just use AI to communicate... We need to rethink what AI is good at." — Andrew [19:15]

• On Integrating AI Into Workflow:

  "The people that are using that tool don't fully know they're using AI... The AI is baked into the process." — Andrew [13:41]

• On Team Excitement & Change Management:

  "When you work closely with other humans and you become part of their team ... by the end of it, there are so many ideas of what they can do with the product. It re-energizes that department." — Andrew [39:32]

• On "AI Power Users":

  "That is a lot more sophisticated than most users of AI that say, 'oh yeah, we're...power users, we're using it.' ... They're failing." — Andrew [22:50]

Recommended Actions and Closing Advice

• For Non-Technical Business Leaders:

  • Stop following solely the "frontier model leaders"; seek out experts focused on workflow automation and tangible business outcomes.

  “There is a lot of people in the workspace automation place and the AI place that have been here for 10, 15, 20 years. ... They're talking about how businesses can make a bunch of money using agents." — Andrew [47:02]

• How to Get Started:

  • Identify repetitive, rule-heavy, disliked tasks in your business as prime candidates for AI-driven automation.
  • Within your team, encourage exploration of AI to eliminate the tasks that are "not good and not enjoyed" as a change management onramp.

• Finding Expert Help:

  • Trusted referrals, reviewing case studies, and evaluating technical depth and business acumen are key safeguards in choosing an AI partner.
  • Engage with consultancies that offer deep process orientation, strong communication, and proven integration expertise—not just the ability to deploy off-the-shelf tools.

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:13] – Andrew’s career and approach
• [03:59] – Advice for future founders and consultants
• [07:45] – Practical steps for employees to bring AI to their workplace
• [12:23] – On shallow corporate AI adoption
• [13:41] – The future of integrated AI workflows
• [16:24] – Limitations of basic automation tools
• [19:15] – Rethinking AI’s role in cross-departmental workflows
• [21:41] – Agent-based workflow design
• [24:59] – The agency consulting model
• [27:29] – Finding clients and the challenge of a crowded market
• [30:01] – Team retention and agency culture
• [35:04] – Pricing and value in AI solutions
• [37:45] – Human-driven, not robot-driven, consulting
• [42:05] – AI data security concerns and mitigation
• [47:02] – Closing advice: follow workflow AI, not just AGI leaders

Resources & Further Reading

• Andrew Amann on LinkedIn (posted daily)
• Agency Website (case studies and whitepapers available)
• Alan Weiss, "Million Dollar Consulting" (referenced book for professional service models)

This summary provides a detailed roadmap of the episode for executives, business leaders, AI professionals, and anyone interested in transforming workplace operations with AI-driven workflow solutions.