Episode 5: The Legend of Bigfoot

Summary

Valley of Shadows, Episode 5: The Legend of Bigfoot

Release Date: February 2, 2026
Podcast by: Pushkin Industries
Hosts and Reporters: Haley Fox & Betsy Shepard

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Overview

Main Theme:
This episode explores "the Legend of Bigfoot"—not the mythical creature, but a nickname for Rick Engels, a resident L.A. County Sheriff’s Deputy with a shadowy reputation. The investigation into the disappearance of Deputy Jon Aujay in 1998 is entwined with Engels's legacy, deepening suspicions of meth trafficking, corrupt law enforcement, and a pervasive culture of silence in the Mojave Desert. Through new witness accounts, informant interviews, and internal police documents, the episode dissects the overlap between local legend, law enforcement, and criminal activity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Devil's Punch Bowl & Bigfoot Legend

• Camping near the crime scene: Haley and Betsy camp in the Angeles National Forest, near one of the last places Aujay was seen (03:03–03:34).
• Bigfoot lore: Stories of a Sasquatch in the area are introduced—1973 sighting by three young men, one being Rick Engels, later dubbed "Deputy Bigfoot" (03:55–06:26).
• Why Bigfoot? The legend mirrors Engels's reputation: larger than life, mysterious, and lurking in the local consciousness.

2. Rick Engels: Deputy, Outlaw, or Both?

• Engels's unique position: Resident Deputy of Pearblossom, known for knowing the landscape and its criminals intimately—a throwback to Old West single-lawmen (11:00–12:30).
• His absence in the Aujay search is telling: Despite deep local ties, Engels did not participate in the search for Aujay, even though his home was just 4 miles from the park (14:10–15:08).
• Quote:
  “Everybody else in Antelope Valley, even guys that were off duty, went up there and volunteered, not getting paid.” – Detective Larry Brandenburg (14:21)

3. Building the Case: Informants, Witnesses, and Rumors

• Circulating accusations: Multiple informants and ex-cops allege Engels’s involvement in the meth trade, working with known dealers such as Tom Hinkle (16:07–17:25).
• Suspicious policing: Engels busted many meth labs—but left key dealers (like Hinkle) untouched (17:10–17:43). This selective enforcement hints at complicity.
• Key observation:

  “Certain major players were never touched by Deputy Ingalls… That raised a red flag to me.” – Informant (17:25)

• Blurred lines: The “resident deputy” system created unsupervised, powerful figures who could become entangled in local crime (19:43–20:08).
• Quote:

  "It’s not safe, not because of criminals. It’s not safe because of law enforcement. And there’s nothing worse than that.” – Mike Bauer, retired LASD Captain (20:08)

4. Witness Testimony: The Roger Interview

• Roger (an inmate) tells all: Roger, afraid for his life, shares what he saw in 1998—he was in Tom Hinkle’s house, overheard Hinkle talking with someone named Ingalls, recognized only later as a deputy (21:55–24:02).
• Crucial overheard conversation:
  • Ingalls thanked Hinkle “for the bag of lye,” referencing “taking care of loose ends” and “no one will ever find it” (25:07–26:03).
  • Lye speeds decomposition—ominous implications for Aujay’s fate.
• Aftermath: Roger receives a death threat with a dead rat and flees, deeply traumatized and fearful of retribution (27:16–28:05).
• Quote:

  “I can't go to LA County Jail. I can't go there. They're going to kill me. They know I know this stuff.” – Roger (22:09)

5. Piecing Together the Theory: Multiple Informants, Overlapping Narratives

• Converging claims: Different stories, same conclusion—Deputy Engels in league with meth dealers and bikers, present when Aujay disappeared, named by several informants (32:04–34:17).
• The finger gun gesture: Multiple witnesses describe Tom Hinkle indicating Aujay was “taken care of,” using a gun gesture.
• Circumstantial but mounting evidence: Outlaw bikers, a meth lab near the disappearance site, reports of gunshots the night Aujay vanished—all point to a criminal conspiracy (32:30–35:30).
• Alternate scenario: Suggestion that Aujay may have approached Engels (believing he needed backup with bikers), only to become a liability and victim (36:05–36:35).

6. Investigative Roadblocks & Culture of Silence

• Operation Silent Thunder: Detectives secure phone records showing Engels and Hinkle communicating (sometimes through intermediaries) after Aujay’s disappearance—adding hard data to the circumstantial web (37:28–39:03).
• Failed search warrant: Brandenburg drafts a warrant to surveil Engels, but his captain, Frank Merriman, shuts it down, forbidding further action (40:13–41:55).
• Departmental stonewalling:

  “Detective, do not find out if this guy’s guilty or innocent. Don’t do it. Who does that? Why stop it? The only thing it would hurt is if he’s guilty. And if he’s guilty, they sure don’t want to find out that he’s guilty.” – Informant (43:59)

• Brandenburg pulled from the case: Files are taken, investigation is stifled, and the cover-up seems institutional (40:56–42:05).
• Quote:

  “I was shut down... Because if you do [keep investigating], you’ll be in trouble. So it was like, oh, I’m done.” – Detective Larry Brandenburg (41:55)

7. The “Code of Silence”

• Operation Silent Thunder persists: Despite LASD interference, external and federal partners (DEA) continue to pursue the case using wiretaps and outside resources (44:23–44:57).
• Overarching theme: The cultural code of silence in law enforcement—a system protecting its own, even to the detriment of justice.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Engels's legend:

  “Bigfoot Eyewitness Deputy Rick Engels would become something of a legend himself... a boogeyman with a badge.” – Narrator (06:50)

• On the reality of dirty cops:

  “Dirty cops are really to be afraid of because they walk around with immunity pretty much.” – Detective Larry Brandenburg (09:35)

• On threats and fear:

  “There was a dead rat on my step with a knife through it… I packed my $*&% and I left. I took off without even telling my mom.” – Roger (27:16/27:45)

• On being stonewalled:

  “I had him review it. DA friend of mine… all Brandenburg needs is a signature from a judge and a signoff from his captain…Frank, he immediately went ballistic. And he started yelling at me. Took the warrant, put it in his drawer... you’re not taking it to a judge. Deputy, I’m ordering you not to. And if you do, you won’t work here anymore.” – Detective Larry Brandenburg (39:59/40:13)

• On the code of silence:

  “It does exist. It’s not written down anywhere. No one could ever prove it. But this case right here just shows 100% that there is a code of silence.” – Informant (44:45)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:55: Introduction of the Bigfoot legend and Rick Engels's connection
• 06:26: Engels’s shadowy reputation and informant allegations
• 09:35: Discussion of the dangers posed by dirty cops
• 14:10: Engels’s notable absence during the search for Aujay
• 17:10–17:43: Patterns in Engels's criminal enforcement—questions of selective prosecution
• 21:55–28:11: Roger’s detailed testimony about Engels, lye, and threats
• 32:04–35:30: Coalescing informant stories—a theory of Aujay’s murder
• 37:28: Discovery of suspicious phone/pager activity linking Engels and Hinkle after Aujay disappeared
• 40:13: Brandenburg’s search warrant blocked by brass
• 44:23: Operation Silent Thunder, the federal investigation not hindered by LASD
• 44:45: The “code of silence” in law enforcement culture

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Episode Tone

Gritty, skeptical, often incredulous, and infused with dark humor about the myth-versus-reality of “Bigfoot.” The hosts and detectives maintain a frank, sometimes irreverent style, using banter and local color to tease out the episode’s darker truths.

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Conclusion

Episode 5 of Valley of Shadows lays bare how local legend, personal relationships, and structural shortcomings in law enforcement can intertwine to hide—or reveal—deep corruption. The “legend of Bigfoot” blurs the line between myth and misconduct, with the missing deputy Jon Aujay’s fate seemingly caught in that shadowy space. Witnesses fear for their lives, investigators get shut down, and the code of silence reigns. Yet the search—for answers, for accountability—presses on.

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Next time on Valley of Shadows: Operation Silent Thunder continues, and the federal dragnet threatens to expose the secrets shrouded by the badge—and by decades of silence.

Transcript

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

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[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Light a candle, pour some wine grab.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

A roll the soft kind for a.

[Detective Darren Hager]

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[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

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[Dr. Maya Shankar]

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[Informant / Witness]

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[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

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[Informant / Witness]

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[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

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[Detective Darren Hager]

Pushkin. This series includes content that may not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on Valley of Shadows.

[Informant / Witness]

He said, look, if you go forward with this, Deputy X, Y and Z are going to know exactly what's going on. So you got to protect me.

[Detective Darren Hager]

What's the image on the back of it?

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

It's a pig with horns.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

She heard from a friend who she refused to name that Deputy Audrey was joggin near the punch bowl when he came across Deputy Engels meth lab and was killed. Word on the street has been that Deputy Ingalls has been involved with drugs for a very long time. Yeah, that's pretty, pretty frightening.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

This is the perfect fire, by the way.

[Detective Darren Hager]

And the perfect beer.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Thank you, ma'.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Am. We're in the Angeles National Forest near.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

The Devil's punch Bowl.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

And this time we're camping out here. The stars are incredible Yeah, I guess.

[Detective Darren Hager]

That'S one perk of it being so freaking dark out here.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

We've pitched our tents at a campground in Big Rock Canyon. It's one of the last places where John Ajay was spotted.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

A campground employee saw him jogging through the campground between 6 and 8pm the night he disappeared. Yep.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Okay.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

But the real reason I wanted to take you out here is because this is also the location of another noteworthy sighting.

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

There he was, Bigfoot, Standing no more than a hundred yards from my blind. I began to shake all over.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

He was awesome.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

This is, according to a Sasquatch expert.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

This is where Bigfoot hangs out when he's migrating from the Pacific Northwest to Mexico.

[Detective Darren Hager]

So you lured me out here, had me set up the tent, and now I have to sleep out here with Bigfoot?

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Yeah.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Oh, my God.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Okay.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

For decades, campers and hikers have reported seeing a Sasquatch creature in the forested areas near the Devil's Punch Bowl. And one of the first sightings in these parts happened on April 22, 1973. It was a night much like this one.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Three young dudes are out here camping, presumably sitting around a campfire drinking beer, just like we were doing. They hear some rustling in the bushes, and they just get spooked. So they pack up all their stuff.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Hop in their truck, and Bigfoot jumps out of the bushes and starts chasing after.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Shut up.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

He starts chasing after the truck. His huge, hairy arms are just, like, swinging around.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Bigfoot chases people.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Not only does he chase people, but he's 12ft tall, so he probably can run pretty fast. God.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Okay.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

And then he just disappears behind the tree line.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

And, like, down in the canyon. Stay with us.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

We promise we're not jumping the shark here. There's a reason we're talking about Bigfoot.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

So the three guys go straight to the LA County Sheriff's station. They file a police report.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

But that's not all, my friend. I printed out a picture of the three guys who saw Bigfoot.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Hey, hold on. Brian Goldejarb, Willie Romerman, and Rick Ingalls. Is this the Rick Angles?

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

The reason we're rapping about Bigfoot is because one of the guys who says he had the brush with the creature was Rick Engels. He would go on to become an LA County Sheriff's deputy. Basically the sheriff of Pearblossom. And he's the guy some informants say was running the meth lab near the Punch Bowl.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Wow.

[Detective Darren Hager]

He's got some major 70s vibes going here. This, like, rolled up plaid shirt, longish.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Hair, he looks like the brawny man mixed with, like, David Hasselhoff.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Oh, my God.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Here.

[Detective Darren Hager]

He's like, clutching a Bigfoot cutout that looks like it's just cobbled together from.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Cardboard and some primer paint.

[Detective Darren Hager]

It's a primer paint.

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

Yeah.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Since 1973, there have been dozens of stories of a larger than life creature haunting the shadowy corners of the Antelope Valley. Adding to the legend of the Mojave Bigfoot. Bigfoot Eyewitness Deputy Rick Engels would become something of a legend himself. Local residents say he was an oversized presence in the Punchbowl area. An evasive figure who skirted the law. A boogeyman with a badge.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Rick Ingalls ran that desert town of Pear Blossom.

[Detective Darren Hager]

And they look the other way.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

But then when it comes to the.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Killing of a cop.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Yeah, no, that was a whole different ball game.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Chris Turk says the word around town was that Deputy Bigfoot Angles was behind John Auge's disappearance.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Do I believe what I heard on the streets?

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Yes.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Do I believe Ingalls is a dirty cop?

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Absolutely.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

These rumors make their way to Homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg and Narco Detective Darren Hager during their Auge investigations. But how much of these stories are fact and how much are fiction? Are they just local lore or is there evidence to back up the claims? What the.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Are you fucking kidding me? What the f was that?

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

That's the beast we're chasing down.

[Detective Darren Hager]

I'm like, holding your hand. What the motherfuck is that? Oh, my God.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

I'm never gonna sleep. I'm Betsy Shepherd.

[Detective Darren Hager]

I'm Haley Fox. And this is Valley of Shadows, Episode 5, the Legend of Bigfoot. Homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg hears that Deputy Rick Engels was busting meth labs in the Antelope Valley to take out his competition. He also hears he was involved in the murder of John Auge. Brandenburg takes it all with a grain of salt.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

People make shit about cops all the time. If he's busting a lot of drug dealers, they're gonna talk crap about him and make up shit to make him look bad. But we couldn't just ignore it. At least I couldn't.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Brandenburg finds himself in a tight spot. If he investigates Deputy Engels as a murder suspect and he's proven innocent, he'll catch hell from his colleagues. If the allegations against Engels are true, then the LA County Sheriff's Department will catch hell. But Brandenburg needs to ensure that Engels is on the up and up.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Dirty cops are really to be afraid of because they walk around with immunity pretty Much. Imagine what the few people that may have known about this think. They're like, hey, if they'll fucking kill a cop and bury him, what are they going to do to me?

[Detective Darren Hager]

So he gets to work.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

I said, you know, Rick Ingalls deserves two things. We need to clear his name or if he's guilty, then we need to frickin arrest his ass and prosecute him.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Brandenburg burns through shoe leather, knocking on doors, interviewing contacts he gets from narco detective Darren Hager.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Rick Ingle's name starts coming up more and more and more.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Then he interviews a woman busted for meth near the Punch Bowl. Turns out she's friends with Tom Hinkle, AKA Methoclaus, and Richard Carroll, the guy who owned the property near the Punch bowl with the underground meth lab.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Mist said that Hinkle and Carol were good friends. In addition to Carol operating a meth lab on his property, he allowed other individuals to produce meth on the property. Ms. Said Deputy Engels would visit Hinkle while driving his black and white sheriff's vehicle.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Brandenburg starts to have doubts about Engels. Hanging out with convicted felons or anyone with a reputation for criminal behavior is specifically prohibited by LASD policy. But the thing is, Angles was no typical deputy. He was the resident deputy.

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

The idea is that you have a police officer in this case, deputy, who is a local resident. That was one of the requirements, is they have to live within that area they're going to be patrolling.

[Detective Darren Hager]

This is Vince Burton, retired LASD sergeant and founder of the Outlaw Pigs Biker Club. Burton says the resident deputy was a way for the department to put boots on the ground in the county's most remote corners.

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

You're the town sheriff in the old fashioned west where you're the guy that's the law for the area. And you know a lot of the bad guys, you know a lot of the guys that are criminals and are skirting the law. You know everybody.

[Detective Darren Hager]

And for more than 20 years, Rick Engels worked as this pseudo town sheriff overseeing Pear Blossom, the town of 1500 near the Devil's Punch Bowl. Burton says the resident deputy is like a community police officer. But there are some crucial differences. The resident deputy is a one man crew. They typically work out of their home, not a police station. And just like Burton did with the Vagos, he says Engels developed relationships with local criminals to keep tabs on them and get intel.

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

All the deputies knew that if there was a bad guy they were looking for in that area, go talk to Rick first. Chances are he probably knew him and knew his house and where he lived. He's just a community guy.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Born and raised there, Rick Ingalls lived in the Antelope Valley for most of his life. He was a rodeo rider and as a side hustle, he would charge money to take people out on bear hunting trips. He also ran an equestrian business sporting horses. So it's fair to say Ingalls was an outdoorsman and something of an entrepreneur. But his main gig was for the LA County Sheriff's Department. He earned his stripes working patrol in the Antelope Valley. And then in 1988, Vince Burton hired Engels for the resident deputy position.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

What about his resume impressed you?

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

The fact that he lived there, the fact that he was a good cop and active and arresting people and doing the Lord's work every day.

[Detective Darren Hager]

The department gives Engels everything he needs to be a self contained unit, a patrol car, a police radio and a work phone. He doesn't punch a clock, doesn't have a supervisor breathing down his neck. He's not even required to check in at the local LASD station, which is about a 40 minute drive from Pear Blossom. So Ingalls is basically on his own out there and when something goes down, he's first on the scene.

[Vince Burton (retired LASD sergeant)]

They would literally throw on their vest, throw on what they call a raid jacket, put on a gun belt, grab a radio, jump in their car and go there.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

But Brandenburg notices something that doesn't square with that whole resident deputy line. If Engels is the department's local expert and go to guy for all things Pear Blossom, why didn't he show up at the Punch bowl when John Auge disappeared?

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

He never once volunteered to help in this search.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Engels name is noticeably absent from the LASD sign in sheets that were collected over the six day search.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Everybody else in Antelope Valley, even guys that were off duty, went up there and volunteered, not getting paid.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Hundreds of people were scouring the park in search of the missing deputy, but not the one sheriff's deputy who knew the Punch bowl like it was his backyard. And it was practically Engel's backyard.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Okay, let me get my bearings around this map. Here's the Punch bowl right here. And Ingalls lived right here. This is how close it was.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

The park was only four miles from his house. He hiked in the Punchbowl, knew its trails and knew the criminal terrain too. So one would expect Engels to offer assistance, to help with the search grid, or lead a group of volunteers through the park.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

This guy never showed up and he lives right by there. That's strange to me.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

I asked Ajay's old boss, retired LESD Captain Mike Bauer, what do you think of Engels not showing up at the search?

[Mike Bauer (retired LASD Captain)]

Engels never went to the search and never searched for John O.J. and he knew John O.J. they knew each other. I mean, there is no doubt they knew each other. And that has created some concern that if there was foul play, that he could in some way have some connection to that foul play.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

When Brandenburg hears about Angle's absence from the search, that's when he leans in and thinks there may be something to the Angles allegations. But he needs some corroboration. So he calls up narco detective Darren Hager and asks him to talk to Keith, the star informant who kickstarted the Operation Silent Thunder task force.

[Informant / Witness]

His exact words, can you ask me if there's any dirty deputies? I'm like, yeah, if you want them. So I'd call Larry Brack. And I said, this is the name he gave me. Rick Ingalls.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Brandenburg and Hagar. Schedule a follow up interview with Keith to tap him for more info and see if Angles has a connection to Pear Blossom's other notorious figure, Tom Hinkle.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

He said that he received information that Ingalls was a dirty copy and he assisted Tom with his meth sales and.

[Informant / Witness]

His meth labs, and the relationship was that they had their own little enterprise out there in Parablossum and it was narcotic sales, manufacturing and illegal firearm distribution.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Hager is stunned by what he's hearing because he knows Angles. They'd crossed paths in the Antelope Valley, were friendly, had even worked a crime scene together.

[Informant / Witness]

The deputy in question, I always thought was a hardcore cowboy cop. So originally I didn't believe it.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

But then when Hager scans through Engels track record, a pattern emerges. Over the course of his career, Engels busted upwards of 20 meth labs. But there were plenty that he didn't bust.

[Informant / Witness]

Certain major players were never touched by Deputy Ingalls. They were big dealers. So why were certain people constantly getting arrested by Ingalls? But this other group, nothing ever happened to them. That raised a red flag to me.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

One of the Untouchables was Tom Hinkle. Hager thinks that's pretty suspicious because Hinkle's place was a whirlwind of meth activity and it was just two miles from Deputy Angle's house.

[Informant / Witness]

It's like, are you kidding me? You can't smell this? Why wasn't this ever taken down?

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

And Then Hager remembers a peculiar encounter he once witnessed between Deputy Angles and Tom Hinkle. It was back when Hager was still working patrol. There'd been a bombing in Pearblossom that left a woman dead and her son severely injured. And there were tire tracks leading from the site directly to Hinkle's house. Engels and Hager were both dispatched to the scene. Hager says that as they approach Hinkle's front door, Engels tells Hager to peel off, to go to the top of the hill and cover him while he approaches Hinkle alone.

[Informant / Witness]

Can I go? That's awfully odd. We got a homicide victim laying there, a kid's leg blown off, and you're gonna go contact a homicide suspect by yourself because you follow the tire tracks straight to this guy's house? And Ingalls goes, I know this guy. Go up there. I'm like, okay, you're the boss. This is your area.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Hager didn't think too much of it at the time, but given the rumors he's hearing about Engels, he sees it in a new light and wonders, is Engels protecting Hinkle? He only knows of one lab that Engels busted that was linked to Hinkle, and that was the one on Rick Carroll's property near the punch bowl. But Engels didn't really take down the lab. The operation was organized by the California Bureau of Narcotics Enforcement.

[Informant / Witness]

The lab was empty. It was gone.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Hager suspects Engels knew about the raid in advance and helped clear out the product beforehand.

[Mike Bauer (retired LASD Captain)]

It's easy to police somebody you don't know, but it's hard to police somebody that you grew up with, especially if they're doing something wrong.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Mike Bauer thinks that corruption is all but inevitable when a resident deputy is policing his friends and neighbors.

[Mike Bauer (retired LASD Captain)]

The resident deputy program creates a little chief of police in an area, and that person has no supervision.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

And the line between law enforcement and lawbreakers becomes blurred like the photographic evidence of Bigfoot.

[Mike Bauer (retired LASD Captain)]

In other words, it's not safe not because of criminals. It's not safe because of law enforcement. And there's nothing worse than that.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

There are moments in each of our lives that seem to change everything. An unexpected diagnosis, the sudden end of a relationship, the loss of a job. As our lives veer off course, it can feel like time is dividing into a before and an after. I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist, and my new book, the Other side of who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans, is all about how we navigate these inflection Points. The Other side of Change pairs singular real life stories with scientific insights to help us find meaning in the tumult of change. What if we saw the hardest moments in our lives not simply as something to endure, but as an opportunity to reimagine who we can be? I'm thrilled to share that Booklist gave the Other side of Change one of its coveted starred reviews, saying, quote, it's impossible not to be moved. The Other side of Change is out now. Get your copy today, wherever you like to buy books.

[Detective Darren Hager]

A couple months into his investigation, Brandenburg is working at his desk when the phone rings. It's from the Sheriff's department in Kern county, just north of LA County. And they're calling about an inmate they have in custody. This guy who we'll call Roger has told them he has information about the missing deputy.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

And so we drive up turn county Jail that day to talk to him.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Roger is supposed to be sent back to LA to face some outstanding warrants, but he's terrified to cross back over county lines.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

He goes, I can't go to LA County Jail. I can't go there. They're going to kill me. They know I know this stuff.

[Detective Darren Hager]

The witness is due to be transferred to LA County Jail, which is run by the LA County Sheriff's Department, which he's terrified of because of what he knows about Ajay.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

If we could guarantee your safety in our jail.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Yes, but aside from that, we haven't promised anything. No deals, no nothing.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

Okay.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Roger starts telling the detectives what he knows.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I know that Tom is involved with meth labs because that's who I would go get it from all the time.

[Detective Darren Hager]

And he tells Brandenburg what happened when he went to buy meth from Tom Hinkle back In June of 1998, around the time Ajay disappeared.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I went up to go purchase some methamphetamines for a friend.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Roger admits that he's a longtime meth user, but on this particular occasion, he says he was just buying drugs to resell to some friends. He was in his early 20s at the time, and this side hustle was a way to make some party money.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I was just charging a little bit more so I could have extra money for, like, cigarettes, video games. I read and go out to eat. And at the time I was at Tom Hickle's house. The car was pulling up to drive and Tom Hickle told me to go sit in the other room. When I went to the other room, I heard how they're going. Ingalls, Tom said, and Ingalls Goes, how's it going, old man? And I don't know anybody named Ingalls. I never heard that name before. Only way I remembered it from Little House on the Prairie. Ingalls.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Roger says he's never heard the name Ingalls before except from Little House on the Prairie, which was written by Laura Ingalls Wilder.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Now, at that point, do you know.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Who this Ingalls guy is?

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

No, I just thought he was a cook or somebody there to make a purchase off of him.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Brandenburg keeps rewinding Roger in his story, vetting claims, asking him to explain further.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

But you're sure there was another party?

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Yeah, because I heard his voice. Because I heard like they already must have known each other. Other, because. How's it going? They shook hands. How do you know they shook hands? Because by the slap, look like the high five and all that. How they get their hand?

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Not a traditional handshake. Yeah. Did you hear any other noises?

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I heard like Tom Ford, Tom David. Like they were using the police codes. So you think you heard a police scan? Yeah.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Tom4 and Tom David are police call signs for traffic units. Brandenburg says specific details like that are ones you look for in witness testimony.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

We're thinking, this kid don't know what that shit means. He ain't making that up. I don't think it just sound too believable.

[Detective Darren Hager]

And these details match the testimony of the woman who told Brandenburg that Deputy Angles would visit Hinkle in his patrol car the night Roger's there. He overhears the two men from another room, so their conversation is a bit muffled and distant, but he still catches fragments of what they say.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Ingle said he took care of his loose ends and all that. Thanks for the bag of lye that he grabbed from Tom Hinkle.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Rogers's deputy Engels thanked Hinkle for the bag of lye.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

And I know lye is used for decomposure because we did that to my horse when he died. No matter what.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Lye is a corrosive chemical that speeds up decomposition.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I heard about a riverbed with the Joshua tree. And they say that nobody's going to ever find it. What they did with the lye and all that.

[Detective Darren Hager]

At first, Roger thought this whole interaction was just odd.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Ingalls asked if there was anybody else there in the house with them, and he goes, no.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Hinkle lies and says, no one else is there.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

But I was in the room. And that's when I started getting paranoid. Because usually Tom would be straight up, yeah, I got a friend Here.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

So Roger begins to think he's heard something he shouldn't have. And then about a week later when he's watching tv, he sees a news story about an LA sheriff's deputy that's gone missing in the Devil's punch bowl. And that's when the real panic sets in. Because Roger realizes he might be witness to something he wants no part in. He goes to his mom's house to fill her in. He tells his stepdad and a roommate and even writes about it in his journal.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

A black journal that says diary on it. Basically it looks like a girl's diary because I got it from my mama.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Roger tries to forget about the whole thing. But then about a year later, he's arrested on a minor drug charge. He gets out a few days later and finds a message waiting for him.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

Then when I got out, I seen a death threat on my doorstep, described this death threat as you call it, and said, if you rat, you're going to become like this, like a rat. And there was a dead rat on my step with a knife through it, which about a 4 inch old time rebuff night.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Roger says he has no idea who left the threat, but he assumes it has something to do with what he overheard at Tom Hinkle's house. And it scares the out of him.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I took it as serious. It's like I don't want to die something I don't know about. Just like 50 pieces. I heard. So what did you do then? I packed my and I left. I took off by the way, without even telling my mom. I hitchhiked. All we have pregnant spelled.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

And that's it. Roger says he's telling Brandenburg everything he remembers.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

I just want to be honest. I just want to do the best. I just want basically go home, be with my mom. Okay. That's going to conclude the interview. Going off tape.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Roger picked up some damning key words like lie, taking care of loose ends, no one will ever know. And the angles.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Let's say it was angles. Can you think of any legitimate reason for this interaction?

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

No, not with a guy like that. I mean that guy's a dude. Documented dope dealer, meth cooker. And he makes bombs. No, I can't imagine why a deputy sheriff would be at his house unless he's there to arrest him.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Brandenburg talks to Homicide. Captain Frank Merriman fills him in on his investigation, but Merriman blows him off.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

That's tweaker talk. Tweak your talk like you guys are crazy. There ain't nothing to this. Okay, all right, all right.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Frank Merriman says it's just a rumor cooked up by meth users. But for Brandenburg, drug use and reliability aren't necessarily at odds.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

When you talk to somebody, you're watching them. You're watching their eyes, you're watching their body language. You're watching how they move and everything. So we kind of found him. This kid might be credible. He was scared. He was scared to death.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Brandenburg ultimately believes Roger because his motivation for coming forward seemed legit. He was so afraid to go to jail in LA county, he was in tears.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

I can't go there. I can't go there. I said, okay, look, we'll hide you in the sheriff's station.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Was there anybody specific that he was scared of?

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Paul Hinkle. He was scared to death of Tom Hinkle and his associates.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Roger's story is no smoking gun. But then narco Detective Darren Hager talks to an informant with an eerily similar account. He interviews a close associate of Tom Hinkle and says the witness completely shuts down, puts his head down on the table and refuses to share what he knows about Angles. He tells Hager that he's scared because, quote, who are people gonna believe, cop or me? If something was to happen, I'm not going to talk about him. And end up dead.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

There are moments in each of our lives that seem to change. An unexpected diagnosis, the sudden end of a relationship, the loss of a job. As our lives veer off course, it can feel like time is dividing into a before and an after. I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist, and my new book, the Other side of who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans, is all about how we navigate these inflection points. The Other side of Change pairs singular real life stories with scientific insights to help us find meaning in the tumult of change. What if we saw the hardest moments in our lives not simply as something to endure, but as an opportunity to reimagine who we can be? I'm thrilled to share that Booklist gave the Other side of Change one of its coveted starred reviews, saying it's impossible not to be moved. The Other side of Change is out now. Get your copy today, wherever you like to buy books.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

So looking at all of these informant statements, you have different people saying different things, but they're not contradictory statements.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Not mutually exclusive.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

No.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

So there's a world in which they fit together like puzzle pieces.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Betsy and I are sitting at her kitchen table surrounded by stacks of documents from the Ajay case file. We're taking stock of what we've learned so far and trying to work the info into a coherent theory.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

We have the two informants who come forward say that they were buying drugs from meth dealer Tom Hinkle, who told them the deputy was jogging in the Devil's punch bowl, stumbled on something he shouldn't have have, and was taken care of. And he does the finger gun gesture.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Yes. And then, of course, we have the huge discovery that there is, in fact, a meth lab.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

There is a meth lab right near.

[Detective Darren Hager]

The punch bowl, and it happens to be right along the route that Ajay ran. What are the chances? I mean, and a resident who lives nearby said they heard a gunshot around sunset the night Ajay disappeared, which is a lot of things lining up. A new layer of the story gets added when an informant says he saw Ajay approaching two bikers in the punch bowl just before he disappeared.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Then an informant comes forward, says that a biker named Big Rick told her that he was in the punch bowl making an ephedrine deal when a deputy approached him. And so he shot and killed him.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Which is wild to hear.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Okay, basically a confession. But there was a third man, the third man involved in Ajay's disappearance. According to some informants, There's a woman who's tied in with these bikers. She says that she overheard the bikers talking. They said that Ajay was murdered because he stumbled on deputy angles. Meth lab names him. Yeah, if that was just a one off, we could dismiss that as hearsay. But multiple informants come forward, say that Engels is a dirty cop and that he's involved in meth labs with Tom Hankel.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Mm.

[Detective Darren Hager]

But the part that really gets me is Rogers testimony about the conversation he overheard between Deputy Engels and Tom Hinkle. They're talking about using lye to get rid of something, so, quote, no one will ever find it. And they're talking about taking care of their loose ends.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Yeah, I mean, what could they be talking about? Unless Engels had a horse that died and the horse's name was loose ends, what would they be using that lie for?

[Detective Darren Hager]

Yeah, that seems like a stretch. It's a lot of circumstantial evidence, but the pieces can be arranged into a solid story.

[Co-host / Interviewer (possibly Haley Fox)]

Hinkle is running meth labs. He has a silent partner in Deputy Rick Engels. According to some informants, they're working with outlaw bikers, Specifically Big Rick, who's delivering the supplies for their meth lab. Big Rick is out there making an ephedrine drop off. When Ajay happens to be running through the area, Big Rick kills him to prevent the meth operation from being exposed.

[Detective Darren Hager]

Yeah, I mean, this is not a super complex criminal conspiracy. It all makes sense. We ask Brandenburg and Hager about the picture that's taking shape in our minds, and they confirm that was their working theory of what happened. But the detectives add another wrinkle. They consider a scenario in which Ajay was returning to his truck when he spotted an LASD patrol car parked nearby or maybe a uniformed deputy and headed over to see if he needed help.

[Informant / Witness]

Ajay went to help Rick Ingalls with these bikers. Thinking that Rick was confronting these bikers on his own, RJ went to back him up and found out Ingo's was on the other side.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

And oh, shit, now they're like, what do we do with this cop? We can't let him go because we're all going to prison and I'm gonna lose my job, my career, my live leader.

[Informant / Witness]

And they had no other option but to get rid of Ajay or else the whole organization would have been taken down.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Sorry, John.

[Detective Darren Hager]

This fits with an overarching rumor about that he was trying to be a hero when he was taken out. But again, this is just a theory until they find a way to prove it. So Hager and Brandenburg level up their investigation into angles to finally figure out if this Bigfoot was real or just folklore. As part of Operation Silent Thunder, Hager and the DEA get permission to review phone logs of various players in the meth world, including suspects in the Auge case. These logs don't record what is said on the phone, but keep track of the numbers dialed.

[Informant / Witness]

As soon as the number's dialed, it'll document the date and time, and then it tells you the duration of the call and the time that it ended. And it would tell you incoming or outgoing to whichever target phone number that you're looking at. And it showed a connection of Ingalls calling people with a criminal record that were involved in the dope world and vice versa.

[Detective Darren Hager]

The logs show a web of connections in real time, revealing who's calling who. As Operation Silent Thunder being carried out, they also reveal a more complex system of messaging that was intended to conceal certain relationships by using a go between. For example, Engels wouldn't phone Hinkel directly. Hager says he would phone a certain someone, and then that person would immediately call Hinkle. Hager and the task force were also able to get a hold of Engels and Hinkle's phone record records from back in 1998. And those logs show that over the course of a few days after Ajay went missing, both Hinkle and Engels paged the same number multiple times. Remember, this is the 90s. Pagers were how you got someone to call you back asap. So why would a cop and a drug dealer be urgently trying to talk to the same person in the immediate aftermath of audit disappearance? The detectives don't know who this pager belonged to. So they have a lot of circumstantial evidence tying Hinkle and Angles together. But they still need hard evidence a crime was committed.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

So I put the search warrant together to put a tracking device on his county vehicle, his phone records, a cell phone, home phone, and his financial records.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Engels isn't the only one named in Brandenburg's affidavit. Tom Hinkle, Richard Carroll and some of their associates are also targets. But Engels is the main suspect.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Deputy Engels is assigned as the Little Rock resident.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Deputy Brandenburg is reading from his search warrant affidavit.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Your affiant believes that Deputy Ingalls and other unidentified individuals murdered Deputy Audrey to prevent him from arresting them or exposing their crime. Criminal activity, you gotta write that kind of strong so the judge gets it. Everything may not come out to fruition, but you're allowed to make those kind of opinions based on what you have.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Then Brandenburg takes the affidavit to someone at the District Attorney's office to give it a look.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

I had him review it. DA friend of mine used to solid warrant to me.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Now all Brandenburg needs to make the warrant official is a signature from a judge and a sign off from his captain, Frank Merriman.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Frank, he immediately went ballistic. And he started yelling at me. Took the warrant, put it in his drawer. I said, well, this judge signs this warrant, Frank, we have to serve it. He goes, yeah, you're right. But you ain't taking it to a judge. Deputy, I'm ordering you not to. And he goes, if you do, you won't work here anymore.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

About a month later, Brandenburg gets a knock on his door. It's two detectives from LASD's homicide bureau.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

And it's Joe Holmes and Brian Steinwan, who I've known for many years. Worked gangs with him. We're all good friends. They said, hey, Larry, we're ordered to come out here and get everything you got in the case. No hard feelings, but they ordered us to come out here. Okay, here's the shit. Take it.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

How did that make you feel?

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Oh, I was pissed. Yeah, I was pissed because basically they're telling me I'm either stupid, crazy or incompetent. And they're taking the case from me, which makes you pretty mad.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Even now, Raidenberg doesn't understand why he was taken off the Ajay case if it wasn't a homicide. Wouldn't the department want proof that Engels didn't do any of the things witnesses and informants accused him of? The only thing Brandenburg can figure is that the department was scared of what he might find. Because Brandenburg says that when push comes to shove, the top brass acts more like politicians than law enforcement, defending the department's image at all costs.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

I do know that when these guys get promote high, up past the rank of captain, even, they get up that commander, chief, assistant sheriff level. It's a cutthroat world. I was shut down like you.

[Roger (Inmate witness)]

You.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

You ain't don't do nothing on that no more. You better not. Because if you do, you'll be in trouble. So it was like, oh, I'm done. You know, I'm done.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Then one day, while sitting at his desk, Randenberg overhears a conversation between his replacement on the Ajay case, Detective Joe Holmes, and their boss, Frank Merriman, who appeared to be giving Holmes some sort of instruction.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

It says, hey, you gotta take care of me on this, Joe. Do the right thing. And he patted him on the back and put this thing to bed. And Joe response was like, you know, I'll do the right thing. I just took that as Joe going. Me knowing Joe Holmes, who I respected and really liked, Joe will do what's right. They took it from me. Joe Holmes gonna go out there, and if there's something funny here, he's gonna find out. He's going to pursue it.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

But soon, this interpretation of their exchange would seem a little too generous, according to Brandenburg.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

I would like to say that there was nothing nefarious there on Frank's part or Joe's when that conversation took place. I really want to believe that. How it ended up the way it ended up, I don't know.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

When Frank Merriman is later questioned about what happened, he admits to spiking Brandenburg's search warrant, the one that would have given the detective a green light to dive deep on Rick Engels, to finally get to the bottom of the deputy Bigfoot legend. Merriman says he made this decision as a type of interagency courtesy that he was deferring to the feds, to Operation Silent Thunder because he didn't want to kick up any dust that would interfere with their narcotics investigation. But Brandenburg doesn't buy it.

[Detective Larry Brandenburg]

Honestly, it baffles me to this day. The DEA was baffled by it, and the DEA agents were beside themselves. What the fuck's wrong with your department? What's wrong with these people?

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

Narcotics Detective Darren Hager doesn't buy it either.

[Informant / Witness]

A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Don't do it. Who does that? Why stop it? I mean, what would it hurt? The only thing it would hurt is if he's guilty. And if he's guilty, they sure don't want to find out that he's guilty.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

But there's an investigation that the Homicide Bureau and Captain Frank Merriman can't stop. Operation Silent Thunder. Detective Darren Hager keeps pushing the case forward, and he's got the full weight of the DEA behind him and federal wiretaps.

[Informant / Witness]

Everyone's heard of the code of silence. It does exist. It's not written down everywhere. No one could ever prove it. But this case right here just shows 100% that there is a code of silence.

[Narrator / Host (possibly Betsy Shepard)]

That's next time on Valley of Shadows.

[Detective Darren Hager]

If you have any information or tips related to the disappearance of John auge, please call 213-262-9889 or email Shadowsushkin FM Valley of Shadows is reported, written and produced by us, Haley Fox and Betsy Shepard. Our editor is Diane Hodson. Our executive producers are Jacob Smith and Alexandra Garriton. Original music by Jake Gorski, Ray Lynch, Mike Jersich and Hayden Gardner. Sound design by by Jake Gorski. Fact checking by Annika Robbins. Additional production support by Sonya Gerwitt and our show art was designed by Sean Carney and Betsy Shepard. Special thanks to Nick White for Show Art Photography. Valley of Shadows is a production of Pushkin Industries. To find more Pushkin Podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever. Wherever you listen to podcasts from. Type 2 fun. We're Haley and Betsy. See you next week. Subscribe to Pushkin plus to hear the entire season of Valley of Shadows ad free starting January 12th. You'll also get bonus episodes, full audiobooks and early ad free listening from your favorite Pushkin hosts and authors. Find Pushkin plus on the Valley of Shadows show page on Apple Podcast or at Pushkin FM plus. And thanks for your support.

[Dr. Maya Shankar]

There are moments in each of our lives that seem to change everything. An unexpected diagnosis. The sudden end of a relationship. The loss of a job. As our lives veer off course, it can feel like time is dividing into a before and an after. I'm Dr. Maya Shankar, a cognitive scientist, and my new book, the Other side of who We Become When Life Makes Other Plans, is all about how we navigate these inflection points. The Other side of Change pairs singular real life stories with scientific insights to help us find meaning in the tumult of change. What if we saw the hardest moments in our lives not simply as something to endure, but as an opportunity to reimagine who we can be? I'm thrilled to share that Booklist gave the Other side of Change one of its coveted starred reviews, saying, quote, it's impossible not to be moved. The Other side of Change is out now. Get your copy today, wherever you like to buy books.