Episode 8: The Finish Line

Summary

Valley of Shadows – Episode 8: "The Finish Line"

Release Date: February 23, 2026
Podcast by: Pushkin Industries
Hosts/Reporters: Hayley Fox and Betsy Shepard

---

Episode Overview

Episode 8 of Valley of Shadows, titled “The Finish Line,” concludes the season’s investigation into the mysterious disappearance of LA County Sheriff’s Deputy Jon Aujay in 1998. As the hosts, Hayley Fox and Betsy Shepard, revisit the ruins and repercussions of the case, they expose systemic failures, corruption, and unanswered tragedies nested within the Mojave Desert’s methamphetamine underworld and a sheriff’s department reluctant to confront the truth. The episode documents old alliances reforming, dogged attempts to penetrate police secrecy, and a haunting sense of unfinished business as the case’s shadows refuse to fade.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Relentless Loop (03:09–06:19)

• Emotional Toll: Betsy shares a dream (03:36) where they endlessly pursue Aujay on the trails of Devil’s Punch Bowl, mirroring the investigative loop both reporters and former detectives find themselves trapped in.
  • Quote: "Like we're fucking Sisyphus rolling the stone up the hill, but instead we're chasing after this man." (03:56 – Betsy Shepard)
• Hayley dwells on how close they often feel to resolution—one witness or piece of evidence away—yet it remains elusive.

2. Retired Detectives Reunite (07:38–13:52)

• The hosts coordinate a reunion between former homicide detective Larry Brandenburg and narcotics detective Darren Hager. Their complicated histories—once partners in pursuit of the truth, then at odds—are rekindled with hopes to break the investigation’s impasse.
  • Quote: "What got these guys to cover so much stuff up and to lie like they lied on to cover up Ajay?" (13:46 – Larry Brandenburg)
• They revisit critical dead ends, including the mysterious linkage of deputy Rick Engels, Tom Hinkle, and an unidentified pager central to the case—never properly pursued by LASD.
  • Quote: “That number Angles and Hinkle were paging could have been the key that unlocked the case. But it was never identified as far as we know.” (13:28 – Betsy Shepard)

3. The Double Deaths at Engels’ Home (14:05–23:15)

• The episode focuses intensely on two deaths at Rick Engels’ house in 2006: Jennifer Vories Strosli and her father Lee Vories, both ruled as suicides under questionable circumstances.
  • Investigation Review: The physical evidence (autopsy findings) directly contradicts Engel’s account, particularly the trajectory of gunshot wounds.
  • Quote: “He assumed she shot herself in the mouth. And this entry wound is actually he's calling an exit wound. It's not because it's clearly an entry wound because the bullet's up here and her skull's fractured.” (19:37 – Darren Hager)
  • Brandenburg’s Theory: “I think Ingalls killed her...I think he executed her. And then he had to kill the fucking dad, too.” (22:26 – Darren Hager)
• Observations about LASD’s lack of follow-through, inappropriate handling of the crime scene, and ignoring of clear red flags are emphasized.

4. Patterns of Violence & Departmental Evasion (26:00–33:26)

• Betsy relates conversations with the victims’ family, who believe Engels was responsible for the deaths and had a known history of threatening behavior.
  • Quote: “They were scared to come forward because they felt like the department had Rick Engels’ back.” (29:09 – Betsy Shepard)
• Mike Bauer, Ajay’s former boss, highlights the wider pattern—Engels’ connection to multiple suspicious deaths and disappearances: Rodney Katseff (investigator, missing), Lyle Tyler (shot by Engels), with each incident swept under the rug.
  • Quote: “The goal was to find one missing person, John O.J...I found that this matter's linked to a number of other missing people and murders.” (31:37 – Mike Bauer)

5. Direct Confrontation & Stonewalling (33:26–38:57)

• The hosts attempt direct calls to both primary suspects: Tom Hinkle (meth dealer, refuses to talk) and Rick Engels (noncommittal via his wife, never returns the call).
  • Quote: “I don’t have to. I’m not gonna. I don’t want to. I don’t want to talk to nobody about anything.” (34:34 – Tom Hinkle per Haley Fox)
• The officers' evasive responses match years of departmental reluctance to press for answers—to the reporters’ frustration.

6. The Limitations of Oversight (42:11–46:35)

• Betsy and Hayley contact official oversight agencies (LA County Civilian Oversight Commission and Office of Inspector General) but learn these bodies lack power to compel testimony or real action.
  • Quote: “Cooperation from the Sheriff's Department is just voluntary. They can and do simply refuse to share information with outsiders. So this watchdog group is only as effective as the LASD allows it to be, making law enforcement the gatekeeper to its own secrets.” (44:45 – Betsy Shepard)
• The hosts reflect: the real “Untouchables” are the department itself, unanswerable even to supposed oversight.

7. Accepting Uncertainty, but Refusing to Quit (47:03–50:26)

• Captain Mike Bauer discusses the demoralizing realization that some mysteries may never be solved, yet hints at the possibility of a civil lawsuit against the Sheriff’s Department on behalf of Aujay’s estate.
  • Quote: “I will never solve this. Well, we’ll see about that.” (48:13 – Mike Bauer)
• Both Brandenburg and Hager express difficulty in moving on: “I mean, I don't know what else to do. Otherwise, we'll just take it to our grave.” (49:42 – Darren Hager)

8. A Season of Shadows, and a Glimmer of Light (50:00–55:52)

• Hayley and Betsy visit Devil’s Punch Bowl one last time, reflecting on the tangibility of the place amid so many intangible truths.
  • Quote: “So much of John Augie's story is...elusive and intangible and feels impossible to hold onto. And the Devil's Punch bowl is the one place where we can actually go and feel some part of the story.” (50:59 – Haley Fox)
• As the sun sets, the story closes on ambiguity—but with a last-minute update: the FBI responds to a records request with evidence of a substantial case file (485 pages), though it will take four years to process. The investigation is not yet over.
  • Quote: “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.” (55:31 – Darren Hager)

---

Memorable Quotes

| Time | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|:--------------|:------| | 03:56 | Betsy Shepard | "Like we're fucking Sisyphus rolling the stone up the hill, but instead, we're chasing after this man." | | 13:46 | Larry Brandenburg | “What got these guys to cover so much stuff up and to lie like they lied on to cover up Ajay?” | | 19:37 | Darren Hager | “He assumed she shot herself in the mouth. And this entry wound is actually he's calling an exit wound...it's clearly an entry wound.” | | 22:26 | Darren Hager | “I think Ingalls killed her...I think he executed her. And then he had to kill the fucking dad, too.” | | 29:09 | Betsy Shepard | “They were scared to come forward because they felt like the department had Rick Engels’ back.” | | 31:37 | Mike Bauer | “I found that this matter's linked to a number of other missing people and murders.” | | 44:45 | Betsy Shepard | “Cooperation from the Sheriff's Department is just voluntary...making law enforcement the gatekeeper to its own secrets.” | | 48:13 | Mike Bauer | “I will never solve this. Well, we'll see about that.” | | 55:31 | Darren Hager | “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.” | | 50:59 | Haley Fox | “The Devil's Punch bowl is the one place where we can actually go and feel some part of the story.” |

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Start of Episode / Emotional toll of investigation: 03:09–06:19
• Detective reunion & implications: 07:38–13:52
• Reviewing Engels’ involvement in suspicious deaths: 14:05–23:15
• Victims’ family perspective & discussion of patterns: 26:00–33:26
• Attempting to contact suspects (Hinkle, Engels): 33:26–38:57
• Oversight dead ends & institutional immunity: 42:11–46:35
• Mike Bauer and retired detectives—accepting uncertainty: 47:03–50:26
• Closing reflections & new FBI development: 50:00–55:52

---

Episode Tone & Style

The episode is steeped in frustration, fatigue, and the ache of unresolved trauma. Hayley and Betsy’s voices are candid, vulnerable, yet persistent—alternating between investigative intensity, personal struggle, and wry humor. The tone is determined but weary, capturing the near-impossibility of seeking justice from a system designed to shield itself.

---

Closing Reflection

Valley of Shadows’ final episode doesn’t deliver the answers listeners may crave, but it provides something more honest: an unvarnished account of the cost of persistent secrecy, institutional inertia, and the limits of accountability in American law enforcement. In the coda, a late-breaking update from the FBI suggests hope the story isn’t quite finished—mirroring real-life investigations that refuse to rest, and the dogged refusal of truth-seekers to give up the chase.

---

If you have information about the disappearance of John Aujay, contact:
213-262-9889 or email [e-mail]

Transcript

[Narrator/Advertiser]

When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing. Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single platform. In a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need. Check out [e-mail] that's o d o o dot com. This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Hey, so what if you could boost the WiFi to one of your devices when you need it most? Because Xfinity WI fi can. And what if your wifi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable, it does that, too. What if your WI fi had parental instincts? Xfinity WI fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online. And finally, what if your w like the smartest WI fi? Yeah, it's WI fi that is so smart, it makes everything work better together. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back. Xfinity. Imagine that.

[LoseWeightNow Advertiser]

Ready to feel healthy this year? Find everything you need at loseweightnow.co. orderly meds gives you access to proven GLP1 medications at a lower cost, backed by real medical professionals. And yes, they ship in discreet private packaging because it's nobody's business how you're improving yourself. And your journey deserves dignity, privacy, and confidence. Get started today at loseweightnow.

[Betsy Shepard]

Co.

[LoseWeightNow Advertiser]

Individual results may vary. Visit loseweightnow. Co. And get started today. That's loseweightnow Co.

[Haley Fox]

Pushkin.

[Betsy Shepard]

This series includes content that may not be suitable for all listeners. Listener discretion is advised. Previously on Valley of Shadows.

[Larry Brandenburg]

We would get the door open through our informants and then pass that information on to Larry. And then he'd try to put the homicide investigation together.

[Darren Hager]

He said that he received information that Ingalls was a dirty cop and he assisted Tom with his meth sales and his meth labs.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Certain major players were never touched by Deputy Ingalls. And that's how we came up with the name Untouchables.

[Mike Bauer]

The FBI has a tap on the phone. DEA is watching the home to leave

[Darren Hager]

a message at the tone and I'll call you back with a phone that's not my own. They said, hey, Larry, we're ordered to go out here and get everything he got in the case.

[Larry Brandenburg]

When I got fired, Larry called me. He goes, I'll be right there, just hanging there. Him and I went into the Buffalo business together, and you never do business with friends. We didn't see eye to eye, and he just split. And that was the end of that.

[Betsy Shepard]

The story just kind of, like, wormed its way into my brain and to where as soon as I go to sleep, I start dreaming about it.

[Haley Fox]

Oh, yeah, I. I feel that. Yeah. One morning, after a year of reporting this story, Betsy calls me. Not to game plan or figure out logistics, just to talk.

[Betsy Shepard]

So, yeah, I'm, like, working 24 hours a day.

[Haley Fox]

You're pretty much what I.

[Betsy Shepard]

That's what it feels like. But I actually. I had a dream last night, and you were in it.

[Haley Fox]

Okay, what happened?

[Betsy Shepard]

We were in our favorite place, the Devil's Punch bowl, and we're, like, jogging on its trails like we're ultra marathoners or something.

[Haley Fox]

And so basically a nightmare. Okay.

[Betsy Shepard]

Yes, a total nightmare. Leading the pack is John Ajay. And, like, we can just see the back of his head and his backpack that he ran with. And he rounds a corner and we lose track of him, and we're like, keep running, keep running, keep running. And can't. We can't catch up. And then as we're finishing the course, coming back around to where we started, there's no finish line, so it just starts over. There's no end to it. Like we're fucking Sisyphus rolling the stone up the hill, but instead, we're chasing after this. Man.

[Haley Fox]

Dude, I feel this so hard because I feel like if we could just spend three more months reporting that could find that one person or that one piece of evidence that ties it all together or, like, verifiably disproves it so we can put it to bed. But, I mean, I think of, like, some of those informants we've reached out to who have said, oh, yeah, I'll talk to you guys, and then ghost us. Like, what if one of them changes their mind? Maybe that will be the key. Maybe all these sheriff's department people who we've spoken with off the record, if they would change their mind and decide to open up, the resolution to this seems so close, but then it's just, like, unattainable.

[Betsy Shepard]

Yeah. I'm realizing it's just kind of this narrative that's kind of on loop.

[Haley Fox]

The story unraveled in stages with help from our different guides. There's Captain Mike Bauer's Mission to disprove the Sheriff's department suicide narrative. Homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg's murder investigation and narco detective Darren Hager's father fight to expose what he sees as a cover up by the lasd. And now we find ourselves in their shoes. In that our lives have become consumed by the Auge case. A compulsive need to find out what happened and an inability to quite get

[Betsy Shepard]

there

[Haley Fox]

on a small scale. We understand what these retired detectives, and of course Ajay's loved ones, have endured for decades. The feeling of being trapped between two endings. One in which the missing puzzle piece finally surfaces and another in which it never does. When we first started reporting this story, we set out to explore the claim that the LA County Sheriff's Department did a half assed investigation for its missing deputy. Little did we know that would lead us into a world of meth manufacturing, drug informants, outlaw biker gangs, dirty cops, mythic monsters, a complicated layer cake of criminal investigations, a heated courtroom battle, and possibly a large scale cover up. We've assembled the information we've dug up into an account of what might have happened. But the persistent uncertainty surrounding the case makes it that much harder to walk away. So we find ourselves stuck in a holding pattern, looking for answers. And then out of the blue, Betsy gets a voicemail from Homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg.

[Darren Hager]

Hello, Betsy, this is Larry Brandenburg. If you could give me Darren Hager's number or give him my number if you're not comfortable doing that. Him and I were old friends. We haven't been for years, but I think it's time him and I talked again.

[Haley Fox]

It's been more than a decade since Larry Brandenburg and Darren Hager have seen each other. The two started their buffalo farm back in the early 2000s after Hager was fired. They tended to herd a bison, made jerky, and even opened a bar where they could sling buffalo burgers. But after a few years, their business went south, as did their friendship. The last time they saw each other was when Brandenburg testified at hager's trial in 2011. But then we show up and start asking questions that force the detectives to take another look at the case that won't go away. So when Brandenburg asks for Hager's number, we give it to him and cross our fingers that they make amends. Because this is one Bermuda Triangle of a story. And maybe, just maybe, a much needed reunion between old friends could help all of us find our way out. I'm Haley Fox.

[Betsy Shepard]

I'm Betsy shepherd. And this is Valley of Shadows. Episode 8, the finish line. We're in the car again, on our way to Darren Hager's house. This time it's the Chaperona detective reunion.

[Haley Fox]

We know the, like, history of these two guys. They have been through the wringer together

[Betsy Shepard]

and have a bond that specifically started over this case. Yeah, we're like matchmakers.

[Haley Fox]

We're straight up yentas here.

[Betsy Shepard]

Who is yenta?

[Haley Fox]

Yenta from Fiddler on the Roof. Matchmaker, matchmaker. Make me a match. We're the matchmakers.

[Betsy Shepard]

Brandenburg did end up calling Hager, who was happy to hear from him. And the two made plans to meet up in person. So naturally, we invited ourselves along for the ride. We pull up to Hager's house right before Brandenburg gets there.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Larry, how are you?

[Darren Hager]

Hey, buddy. How are you guys?

[Mike Bauer]

Good, good.

[Darren Hager]

How about you? You look healthy.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Did you dye your hair?

[Darren Hager]

Yeah, I did. I thought it would look better like this.

[Betsy Shepard]

Brandenburg takes it in stride when Hager talks shit about his white head of hair.

[Darren Hager]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess it's been quite a while. Has he?

[Betsy Shepard]

The band's back together. I hope so do you.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Come on in.

[Darren Hager]

Hi.

[Betsy Shepard]

Good morning.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Nice to see you.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Remember the girls, right?

[Betsy Shepard]

Hager and Brandenburg settle in, exchanging their version of pleasantries.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Got coffee or whatever you want.

[Darren Hager]

I'll have a cup of coffee.

[Betsy Shepard]

Yeah.

[Larry Brandenburg]

When you're ready for something a little healthier, let me know.

[Betsy Shepard]

The two swap stories about their horseshoers, talk about what they did on a recent snow day and bring each other up to speed on their personal lives.

[Larry Brandenburg]

How's the family?

[Darren Hager]

Everybody's good. You know, they got a bunch of grandkids now.

[Larry Brandenburg]

No kidding.

[Darren Hager]

Yeah.

[Betsy Shepard]

After disbanding their buffalo operation, Hager got into cattle ranching and Brandenburg stuck with law enforcement. He retired from the LASD and now works for a small town police department consulting on homicides and cold cases. Which is really why we're here. We love the warm and fuzzies of this rekindled friendship. But we've come to discuss the Ajay case.

[Darren Hager]

I had kind of let this thing go for years. Really. I just gave up figuring he was killed and murdered and that they don't care.

[Betsy Shepard]

Brandenburg and Hager slip back into their old dynamic and start rehashing key evidence in the Auge case. Like the discovery of Rick Carroll's meth lab just two miles from the punch bowl. And all of the informants who've implicated Tom Hinkle, the Vago Spikers and Deputy Rick Engels in John Auge's disappearance.

[Darren Hager]

You got the time frame? Dust. You hear a Gunshot. It all fits. It's not rocket science at all. And this wasn't a planned murder. This shit just happened. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Betsy Shepard]

The men discuss how differently things would have shaken out if the department hadn't stopped Brandenburg from investigating angles.

[Darren Hager]

They would have let me put the tracker on his car, got all his bank records and phone records and all those dope people. We would have had him dead to rights. My warrant would have produced all that evidence on him.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Absolutely. Or it could have cleared him.

[Darren Hager]

And that was my premise.

[Betsy Shepard]

There are a number of loose ends in the Auge case. Nearly any detail could pan out to become the thing that breaks it wide open. Like this one. An internal email written by Hager's supervisor during Operation Silent Thunder. Brandenburg's never seen it, so we ask Hager to read it aloud.

[Larry Brandenburg]

The task force just obtained phone records for two years ago at the time of Deputy Adjaye's disappearance. For several days following the disappearance, Deputy Ingalls and Tom Hinkle made numerous calls to the same pager.

[Darren Hager]

I mean that alone wasn't that very troubling to anyone? That a deputy sheriff's calling the same pager several times is his dope dealer.

[Betsy Shepard]

That number Angles and Hinkle were paging could have been the key that unlocked the case. But it was never identified as far as we know. And it's either been lost or buried over time. It's just one of many things that slipped through the cracks when the Sheriff's department stamped out the Ajay investigation.

[Larry Brandenburg]

What got these guys to cover so much stuff up and to lie like they lied on to cover up Ajay?

[Darren Hager]

I don't know. Because they weren't like that. Sheriff's homicide had this great reputation. We did. And our word was gospel. It was. Especially back in them days.

[Betsy Shepard]

LASD homicide appeared to turn a blind eye to Angle's potential involvement in Ajay's 1998 disappearance. But eight years later, when two people are shot and killed in Deputy Angle's home with Angle's gun, it seems like the department would have to finally investigate him.

[Haley Fox]

One of the things we wanted you guys to look at was the. This is the autopsy for Jennifer Strosley.

[Mike Bauer]

Okay?

[Haley Fox]

Jennifer Vories, Starasley and her dad Lee Vories are found dead at Rick angles House on September 23, 2006. It's just after 3pm when two gunshots are fired leaving the 27 year old woman and her father with fatal gunshot wounds to the head. Ingalls calls 911 and a fleet of responders descend on his home. There's cherries and berries everywhere. Paramedics, lasd deputies and detectives, a coroner. And then it's all quietly wrapped up. The two deaths are ruled suicides. The Sheriff's department issues no public statement on the incident. The few details that do trickle out are inconsistent, so much so that the local paper, the Antelope Valley Press, puts out a story about it, explaining that although they don't usually publish details about suicide, they're making an exception in this case because these deaths occurred in a peace officer's home. And there were conflicting accounts of what happened. According to Rick Engels, Jennifer grabbed his.38 revolver and ran into the bathroom where she fatally shot herself. And then Lee ran into the bathroom and shot himself after seeing his daughter dead on the floor. But official reports call into question some key details of Engel's account. And this is the other reason we're here at Darren Hager's house, because we finally got our hands on the coroner's reports for the two fatalities.

[Darren Hager]

What's the coroner's case number on that?

[Larry Brandenburg]

2006. 07361.

[Darren Hager]

That's her.

[Haley Fox]

Jennifer Voorhees Strosli was an elementary school teacher from Idaho and had recently been struggling with postpartum depression. Lee Voorhees lived in California and had known Rick Ingalls and his wife Lynn for over 30 years. Lee brought his daughter to stay at the Angles Home near the Punch bowl, so Jennifer could recuperate out there. But that's not what happened.

[Darren Hager]

Why does she have access to a gun?

[Larry Brandenburg]

Her kingdom's off duty gun.

[Darren Hager]

Yeah. That's negligence, if nothing else.

[Haley Fox]

Because if Jennifer was in such a bad way, why would Ingalls leave the gun in a place where she could grab it? And how did Lee wind up in that bathroom?

[Darren Hager]

I mean, if it was a righteous suicide, you wouldn't let your best friend go see his daughter like that. You just wouldn't do it.

[Haley Fox]

Brandenburg has other questions, like why was Lee's body moved from the bathroom into the kitchen before investigators arrived? And why did it take the investigators so long to bring in the coroner?

[Darren Hager]

The thing is the hours. This happened at three corner to get there till almost midnight. That's nine hours.

[Larry Brandenburg]

I don't. I don't even know where to go. It's making my stomach just. I feel like throwing up.

[Haley Fox]

Brandenburg says that when detectives are dispatched to the scene of a death, they typically conduct their investigation and call in the coroner when they're done. If the incident is A clear cut suicide. This whole process happens pretty quickly. So the nine hour gap is unusual, especially since there were only two people on scene to interview Rick and Lynn Angles. So the retired bulldog reasons that maybe homicide investigators weren't totally sold on the suicide narrative at first. And as we start looking closer at the coroner's reports, we find more reason to question Rick Engel's account. Included in these reports are two main documents. There's the investigators narrative, written by a coroner's investigator. It tells the story of the events leading up to and surrounding the deaths. It's based on information reported by responding LASD detectives. And then there's the autopsy, which is the evaluation of the body post mortem. It's done by a doctor, usually at the morgue, to determine the official cause of death. Typically these two documents are complementary. They work together to establish the big picture. But in the Voorhis Durasly case, these reports describe different versions of the same event.

[Darren Hager]

I've looked at a lot of dead people. I probably investigated 200 homicides in my career and I don't know how many suicides. Way more. This thing stinks.

[Haley Fox]

We should warn you, the details from these reports are pretty graphic, but they're crucial for fact checking Engel's story. The investigators narrative states that Jennifer was killed by a through and through shot. That the bullet entered through her mouth and exited the base of her skull. A description that supports the conclusion that she died by suicide.

[Darren Hager]

He assumed she shot herself in the mouth. And this entry wound is actually he's calling an exit wound. It's not because it's clearly an entry wound because the bullet's up here and her skull's fractured.

[Larry Brandenburg]

So basically Ingalls goes hey, they just shot themselves and goes, oh, so it must be through the mouth and out the back, the neck.

[Haley Fox]

But according to the autopsy, based on a thorough medical analysis of the body, the bullet that killed Jennifer actually entered through the back of her head, near where the base of her skull meets her neck. Brandenburg believes the autopsy and the doctor who conducted it.

[Darren Hager]

This is the pathologist. This is accurate. This is not.

[Haley Fox]

That pathologist recovered bullet fragments from Jennifer's head.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Well, it says the bullet was found in the brain. Yeah, there's no exit wound, so it never came out.

[Haley Fox]

So the Coroner concludes that 1 inch gunshot wound found at the base of Jennifer's skull, that was where the bullet entered her body and then traveled upward and got lodged in her brain. But that kind of shot would be hard to self inflict. Brandenburg holds his hand like a Makeshift gun. Trying to figure out how Jennifer could have pulled that off.

[Darren Hager]

This is so awkward. How are you going to get a trajectory to go up?

[Larry Brandenburg]

That's what I just did.

[Darren Hager]

How are you going to do that?

[Larry Brandenburg]

That's a pretty good shot.

[Haley Fox]

Nevertheless, a county medical examiner rules the death suicides. This conclusion seems to be largely based on statements made by Rick and Lynn Angles and the fact that gun residue was found on the victim's hands. As soon as investigators arrive at their home, Lynn and Rick Engels ask that their hands be tested for gunshot residue or gsr.

[Larry Brandenburg]

They both stated to everybody that got there, we want.

[Darren Hager]

Why would you say that?

[Larry Brandenburg]

I mean, I can understand a deputy going, oh, man, I'm under investigation. This, that, and the other. I'm. I'm nervous. I know how this thing works.

[Darren Hager]

Look, Darren, if it's a righteous suicide, you're a deputy.

[Larry Brandenburg]

You're not. I'm just playing devil.

[Darren Hager]

I know, but you're not even going to think that way. You're going to. First of all, you're going to be very upset that my lifelong friend, daughter killed herself. Now, my buddy killed himself in my house with my gun to Brandenburg.

[Haley Fox]

It seems fishy that the angle's first concern is the GSR test. Plus, he says a GSR test doesn't prove innocence because gun residue can easily be washed off.

[Darren Hager]

And of course they wash their hands. But why would you even make that statement? I think Ingalls killed her. You think?

[Larry Brandenburg]

I think it.

[Darren Hager]

I think he executed her. And then he had to kill the fucking dad, too.

[Haley Fox]

We've spent a lot of time talking with Brandenburg and Hager discussing all sorts of violent and horrific crimes. But this intensity in their voices kind of stops me in my tracks. And then I realize why they're so upset. Because they think these tragedies could have been avoided if the department had just let them investigate Ajay's disappearance.

[Darren Hager]

This thing would have been over a long time ago. And I think Rick Ingalls would have been in jail and these two people might still be alive. Now I'm ready for a drink, Darren. Good fucker.

[Haley Fox]

Betsy and I leave Hager's house with a pretty clear idea of what needs to happen next. There's a few key phone calls left to make and leads to chase down. But first we hear from someone who knew not only Jennifer Voorris Drosli and Lee Voorhees, but Rick Engels. And this person says there were problems with the suicide story from the start.

[LoseWeightNow Advertiser (Alternate)]

If you're struggling with weight loss, start your journey at loseweightnow Co because orderly meds helps people get real results with proven GLP1 semaglutide starting for as little as $74 a month. No waiting rooms, no confusion, just real support and guidance you can count on all year long. Get started today at loseweightnow code. Individual results may vary. Visit loseweightnow.co and get started today. That's loseweightnow co.

[Haley Fox]

Hey, this is US Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull. As athletes, our lives are about having a clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust. So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you

[Narrator/Advertiser]

learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply let's talk

[Redfin Advertiser]

about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script with listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app. You can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise, and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com

[Betsy Shepard]

There are different theories of what happened the day that Jennifer Voorhees de Rosli and Lee Voorhees died at Rick Engel's house. There's the straightforward explanation that things unfolded exactly as Engels and his wife say they did. But there's also a long standing rumor that something untoward had gone on between Angles and the young woman and that this relationship ended in violence. We have to emphasize there's no proof of this, but a conversation I have with someone who knows Angles and the victims makes me wonder. So I Just talked to a family member of Lee Voorhees and Jennifer Strosli. I'm on the phone with Hayley, bringing her up to speed on what I heard from this family member who didn't want to be named. They said to me that their family very much believes that Engels murdered the two of them and lied about the suicide. And that's not just based on inconsistencies in his story. It's based on them knowing Angles for a very long time. Lee Voorhees had been close friends with Rick Engels for several decades and had brought him into the family fold. So this family member I spoke with had spent a lot of time with Angles. They tell me about how when Angles had his first fatal on duty shooting, he went out to celebrate. And they told me Angles had a volatile side. So the family said that he was basically this, like, hard ass country boy who was, like, always pulling guns on people. And then this family member also said Lee told them this story about going out horse riding with Rick Engels. And on this particular trip, a ranger came up and asked them to see their permit. Mm. And Rick responded by pulling a gun on the ranger and telling him that he could just kill the ranger right then and there and no one would ever find out what happened to him.

[Mike Bauer]

What?

[Betsy Shepard]

But the weirdest thing was that at the funeral, they were talking to Lynn Ingalls and asked what they had all been doing earlier in the day, the day Jennifer and Lee died. And Lynn Ingle said that they had spent the day at a gun range, which stuck out to them. Because if this woman killed herself because she was emotionally distraught, why would you take her to a gun range? The gun range detail is just confusing. That's not a place you'd take someone in the middle of a mental health crisis. But it also undermines those gun residue tests, because if all four people went to the gun range, then that would explain why the victims had gun residue on their hands. And it also means that Lynn and Rick Engels would have gun residue on their hands, unless, of course, they washed it off. This information isn't coming from an informant that the Sheriff's Department can just dismiss as tweaker talk. It's from a family member of the two victims who says they knew Rick Engels pretty well. But they tell me they never pressed the Sheriff's Department about the suicide determinations. They just let it lie. They were scared to come forward because they felt like the department had Rick Engels back. Records from the LA County Sheriff's Department would go a long way in clarifying what really happened. But again, the LASD denied our public records request, saying that disclosure of these records could jeopardize the potential safety of the people involved. Well, two of those people are dead, and the other two may be responsible for those deaths. So it seems to me that their concern for safety is a little misplaced.

[Mike Bauer]

Law enforcement wants to hide something. They call it a suicide and close the case.

[Betsy Shepard]

Aude's former boss, retired Captain Mike Bauer, thinks this is all part of the department's strategy.

[Mike Bauer]

It's too indecent for the public to learn this. It's embarrassing to the family, and we don't release that information.

[Betsy Shepard]

I mean, what are the odds that Angles would be implicated in Ajay's alleged suicide and then, years later, be caught in the middle of two more deaths? Two more suicides that occurred in Angle's home with Engel's gun. John Hajay's disappearance left behind a void of information. But the tragedy that befell Jennifer Voorhees, De Rosli and Lee Voorhees is far less mysterious. There were bodies. There was a weapon. A precise location. And a story told by two people that doesn't entirely square with medical analysis. In spite of all that possible evidence, and in spite of all the criminal allegations surrounding Deputy Angles, the Sheriff's department didn't seem to dig in on any of this. And yet again, they gave Engels a pass. It's the job of investigators to look for patterns in crime stats, criminal histories, forensics. And yet the LESD refused to consider these violent deaths in Engels home as anything more than an unfortunate coincidence. But we can't help but wonder how many tragedies make a pattern. According to Mike Bauer, there are even more suspicious deaths linked to Rick Engels. And those need to be seriously investigated, too.

[Mike Bauer]

The goal was to find one missing person, John O.J. and then try to determine the true cause of his death. And in the process, I found that this matter's linked to a number of other missing people and murders.

[Betsy Shepard]

There's Rodney Katsif. Remember, he was the freelance investigator who kicked up tips on the Ajay case and sent some key informants Hager's way. Katseff went missing in 2001, and his car was found burned out near the Angeles National Forest. Rick Angles was the deputy assigned to the incident, but curiously, he chose not to respond. Just months before his disappearance, Katsif had written a letter to a friend talking about the Ajay case. He wrote that Tom Hinkle and Rick Engels both killed the lost cop and quote, I've got the witness who was there, unquote. And a few years before that, Engels shot and killed a guy named Lyle Tyler. Ingalls had responded to a stolen vehicle call at Tyler's trailer. When Tyler came to the door holding a shotgun, Angles opened fire. The LASD ruled it a justified shooting, but according to at least one informant, Tyler knew too much about Angle's meth operation and was terrified the deputy might come after him.

[Mike Bauer]

This is a criminal enterprise centering on manufacture and distribution of meth in Antelope Valley and in my opinion, continued to run because the sheriff's department did not put an end to it.

[Haley Fox]

Armed with as much reporting as possible, we decide it's time to finish off our call list to talk to meth dealer Tom Hinkle and Deputy Rick Engels. I'd been trading voicemails with Hinkle for a few weeks, but I eventually get him on the phone. Afterwards, I called Betsy to fill her in. So you know how I've been playing phone tag with old Tom Hinkle?

[Betsy Shepard]

Yeah.

[Bethany Frankel]

Did you actually.

[Betsy Shepard]

Did you finally get him?

[Haley Fox]

Oh, my God, yes.

[Betsy Shepard]

Does he still have that deep, gruff, menacing sounding, Sam Elliott voice?

[Haley Fox]

100%. As soon as I picked up the phone and heard his voice, I started sweating. Immediately, I give Hinkle my normal spiel that we're working on a story about something that happened in Pear Blossom in the late 90s and that his name has come up multiple times. I provide no specifics, don't even say Ajay's name, but he seems to know exactly what I'm referring to and is quick to answer. He said, I don't have to. I'm not gonna. I don't want to. I don't want to talk to nobody about anything.

[Betsy Shepard]

Did he say it with that much sass?

[Haley Fox]

Oh, more sass.

[Betsy Shepard]

It's so surprising that that was his response, because you would expect someone that has no involvement to say, I wasn't involved. I don't know what you're talking about, but that's not what he said.

[Haley Fox]

We don't get new information from Tom Hinkle, but our brief interaction matches what we've heard about him. Just like when he talked to DEA Agent Kent Bailey. He doesn't deny knowledge of what happened to Ajay. He just won't give it up. And now the time's come for our other call. Okay.

[Betsy Shepard]

You ready to do this?

[Haley Fox]

I guess so.

[Betsy Shepard]

Okay, who's gonna make the call to Rick Angles?

[Haley Fox]

We're torn over who's gonna do the deed. We want answers. We need answers. But the idea of confronting Angles is nerve wracking, given all the things people have accused him of doing. So we settle the matter diplomatically. Rock, paper, scissors.

[Betsy Shepard]

It is the only fair way.

[Bethany Frankel]

Okay.

[Betsy Shepard]

Rock, paper, scissors.

[Mike Bauer]

Two.

[Betsy Shepard]

Okay. Paper wins every time.

[Haley Fox]

Two out of three. No. Okay, I will do it. But I gotta know, if we only have time for one question.

[Betsy Shepard]

Were you involved in John Naje's disappearance?

[Haley Fox]

Okay.

[Betsy Shepard]

All right, let's do it. Yeah. It's ringing.

[Haley Fox]

My stomach's in knots. The phone's ringing. My hands start sweating. I get ready to leave a message. And then someone answers the phone. Hi, I'm looking for Rick.

[Betsy Shepard]

I can tell Hailey's nervous because her voice goes up a whole octave. I overhear Rick's wife, Lynn Angles, on the phone. She says, he's not home right now. Can I help you?

[Haley Fox]

Yeah, my name's Haley Fox. I'm a reporter, actually, and I was trying to track him down for a story we're working on.

[Betsy Shepard]

On.

[Haley Fox]

Is it possible for me to leave a message?

[Betsy Shepard]

She says yes, and asks, what is this concerning?

[Haley Fox]

It's about a few different things back when he was working as resident deputy in Pear Blossom related to a few things that were going on in the area. Including the John A. Case. Yeah, thank you so much. Okay, bye. She said he may or may not want to talk to you, but I'll pass along the message. Yeah. Which, frankly, is more encouraging than I thought it would be. I thought she was gonna be like, hang out.

[Mike Bauer]

Yeah.

[Betsy Shepard]

Yeah. Okay. And now we wait.

[Haley Fox]

And now we wait.

[Betsy Shepard]

What do you think the chances are that he'll actually talk to us?

[Haley Fox]

Based on his performance in court, I would say not very high.

[Betsy Shepard]

Yeah, getting him to answer questions kind of seemed like it was pulling teeth.

[Haley Fox]

The only real insight we have into Rick Angle's personality is from those recorded interviews and court transcripts used as exhibits in Hager's lawsuit. What we glean from them is that Angles is hard to read. On one hand, he's evasive and curt. He says he doesn't know what he was doing on June 11, 1998, the day Ajay disappeared. But his deadpan responses are laced with piss and vinegar. He seems to be flaunting that the Sheriff's Department did not thoroughly vet him as a suspect. He says Homicide Detective Joel Holmes never checked his phone records or searched his house like he claimed. He's got a lot of nerve, and we hope it might compel him to talk to us. So we try him again.

[Mike Bauer]

The FBI is a tap on the phone. The DEA is watching the phone. So we have a message at the tone and I'll call you back with a phone that ain't my own.

[Haley Fox]

Angles has the same outgoing message he recorded decades earlier when he was a suspect in multiple investigations. Even in retirement, he's still taunting authorities, teasing phone conversations they never got a chance to hear. I leave a message for Angles, but he never calls back. So we never get a chance to ask the money question. Were you involved in John Ajay's disappearance? It's what the sheriff's department should have been asking from the start, but it seems like maybe they just didn't want to know. And that's why we do what we do next. We call the police on the police. Hi, my name is Hayley Fox. I'm a reporter in Los Angeles working on an investigative series about a LA county sheriff's deputy who went missing out.

[LoseWeightNow Advertiser (Alternate)]

New Year New you begin at loseweightnow Co and make this the year you finally feel in control. With orderly meds, access proven GLP1 tirzepatide storage starting as low as $149 a month, it's simple, doctor guided and delivered right to your home so you can finally focus on feeling healthier and more confident. Get started today at loseweightnow.

[Betsy Shepard]

Co.

[LoseWeightNow Advertiser (Alternate)]

Individual results may vary. Visit loseweightnow. Co and get started today.

[Haley Fox]

That's loseweightnow co. Hey, this is U.S. olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Darren Hager]

And I'm U.S. paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Haley Fox]

As athletes, our lives are about having a clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust. So when it came to getting the best mortgage, we chose PennyMac. PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you

[Narrator/Advertiser]

learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.

[Redfin Advertiser]

Let's talk about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app you can see Your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise. And Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning. That's redfin.com

[Betsy Shepard]

there's an incredible number of allegations against Rick Engels. The number of people who were missing or murdered in his orbit is suspicious. We've seen no hard evidence that Engels is guilty of the things he's been accused of. But there is a consistent pattern in the Sheriff's Department's treatment of Engels, clearing him over and over again with little to no investigative effort. And that's the biggest indication to me that there is something to all this. We've reached out to the Sheriff's Department numerous times. We submitted multiple interview requests and public records requests, which they denied. Then we wrote them one last time to give them a chance to respond to claims about Ajay's disappearance made in this story. But the response we got back was pretty underwhelming. Here's a condensed version of it to date based on the information developed throughout the course of the investigation. There is no evidence to substantiate foul play was a factor in his disappearance. The department is dedicated to ensuring that every investigative avenue is explored. And we encourage anyone with information to contact the Homicide Bureau. Yeah, the LASD is dedicated to every investigative avenue except for all the ones that currently exist. So what happens when a law enforcement agency fails to do its job or even refuses to do it? Who has the power to step in and force the issue? Today in Los Angeles county, there are two agencies that oversee the Sheriff's Department. There's the Civilian Oversight Commission, which investigates big picture issues like use of force and deputy misconduct, typically focused on current LASD personnel. And then there's the Office of the Inspector General, or oig. It's an independent government agency formed to promote transparency and constitutional policing within the Sheriff's Department. So we take our findings to the OIG to see if they can help us. We tell the OIG about the allegations that that Rick Engels was involved in Ajay's disappearance, that the Sheriff's Department never properly investigated him, and that there's a number of suspicious deaths surrounding angles. The Chief Deputy of the OIG writes back with this response. Currently, the Office of the Inspector General is unable to conduct meaningful investigations because we're not able to compel Sheriff's Department personnel to speak with us. Of course, we are concerned if the Sheriff's Department covered up the involvement of a sheriff's deputy in a homicide. But the most we could do is report it, which you have the power to do by reporting your investigation in the media. Investigative reporting is often an effective means to get the department to comment or even act. We appreciate the pat on the back from the Inspector General, but we're discouraged to learn that the oversight agency has no real authority and therefore no real oversight. Because ultimately, cooperation from the Sheriff's Department is just voluntary. They can and do simply refuse to share information with outsiders. So this watchdog group is only as effective as the LASD allows it to be, making law enforcement the gatekeeper to its own secrets. That's what this story is ultimately about. Crime that happens in the absence of oversight. At first, we thought the problem was just concentrated in the outskirts of Los Angeles county, that the Sheriff's Department didn't do enough to police the Antelope Valley or oversee its personnel out there. But the truth is the problem is much bigger. Bigger because there's no actual accountability for the LA County Sheriff's Department. They are the real untouchables. We feel frustrated, alarmed, and to be perfectly honest, a bit defeated. But we can't say we weren't warned from the very beginning. So when you first told us that you guys have stumbled into a cluster of shit, what did you mean by that?

[Mike Bauer]

Welcome aboard. Put your seatbelt on. Get ready for some interesting stuff.

[Betsy Shepard]

I check in with retired LASD Captain Mike Bauer, who first introduced us to the Ajay case.

[Mike Bauer]

People like you come and go and get interested in the topic of the mysterious disappearances. It's all very interesting. And the stuff that I found out has been beyond interesting. It's been disturbing.

[Betsy Shepard]

Bauer just can't shake how his department handled things.

[Mike Bauer]

They didn't do their job. They basically said, we got to put a lid on this because it's going the wrong direction. It's going the direction that there's drugs involved and there's corruption involved and there's murder involved.

[Betsy Shepard]

Okay?

[Mike Bauer]

We don't want it going in that direction. So it's a can of crap that is a little broader than just what happened to John Ajay. Where is he? And once we find him, it's all over. No, once we find him, it all starts.

[Betsy Shepard]

Do you have any advice for digging ourselves out of it. How do we get out of the cluster of shit? Yeah, I'm painfully aware of the irony here of me asking a man who's been investigating Ajay's disappearance for over two decades how the thing ends.

[Mike Bauer]

The more I looked at it, the worse it got. And as I kept going, I thought, you know, I don't know if I can solve this.

[Betsy Shepard]

Bauer says that for his own peace of mind, he's had to come to terms with the fact that some mysteries stay mysteries.

[Mike Bauer]

I came to the realization in the last few years, my wife got cancer. I couldn't go to LA and do any field work at all because my wife's illness. And I said to myself, okay, now I have to get used to the idea that I will never solve this. And that's a hot. That. That's a. That is a very hard pill to swallow. I will never solve this. Well, we'll see about that.

[Betsy Shepard]

Mike Bauer lives with that uncertainty every day. But he's still got some fight left in him. When he's not tending to his ducks and other animals, he's plotting.

[Mike Bauer]

Well, I have a strategy that I have not implemented, but I may implement.

[Betsy Shepard]

Debbie Auge gave Mike Bauer power of attorney over the Jonathan Ajay estate. And as such, he can sue the sheriff's department on behalf of the estate.

[Mike Bauer]

I would bring a civil lawsuit against the department for damaging RJ's estate, damaging Audrey's widow, damaging Audrey's daughter with this false information contained in the report and that the department is failing to investigate.

[Betsy Shepard]

Meanwhile, Homicide Detective Larry Brandenburg is considering getting his PI license so we can do a private investigation into the Ajay case, hopefully with his buddy Darren Hager by his side.

[Darren Hager]

I mean, I don't know what else to do. Otherwise, we'll just take it to our grave.

[Betsy Shepard]

And Hager spends his days on his ranch herding cattle and reliving a past life he can't seem to let go of. Not until the case is solved.

[Larry Brandenburg]

Just prove Ajay killed himself or Ajay was murdered. I don't care either way. Make me look like a complete asinine. Go nowhere Detective. And he committed suicide. And I just missed the whole ball of wax. Those are the only two things I want,

[Betsy Shepard]

John. Ajay's last day continues to play on loop in their minds. And ours, too. So we make one last trip to the Devil's Punch Bowl. But this time, we're not chasing after anything. Staring out at this overlook, you know, and, like, seeing the mountains and the rocks, and you just get this sense that it's like this immovable, static thing.

[Bethany Frankel]

Mm.

[Haley Fox]

I think it's really fitting that we're here, because so much of John Augie's story is, like, elusive and intangible and feels impossible to hold onto. And the Devil's Punch bowl is, like, the one place where we can actually go and feel some part of the story.

[Betsy Shepard]

It grounds it in a way.

[Haley Fox]

It grounds it. Yeah. Like, we can literally touch the rocks and hear the trees. And that is really something that's been hard to find in this story, Any sort of solid ground.

[Betsy Shepard]

We've come here to park our story, to bring it home.

[Haley Fox]

I feel tired is what I feel. I can't imagine how tired. Bauer and Brandenburg and Hager and everybody.

[Betsy Shepard]

I feel really tired. To you. It's a lot to take on. And working on this story, it's kind of become the focal point of my life in a way that hasn't been the most healthy, but it's the kind of. That just draws you in and makes you kind of obsessive because it feels like if you keep chasing after the thing, the thing will reveal itself to you.

[Haley Fox]

I still think the thing might reveal itself to us maybe 20 years from now. But

[Betsy Shepard]

Haley is the eternal object. I'm the eternal pessimist, or realist, as I like to call it. Together, we balance each other out and capture the ambivalence of what our characters live with each and every day. The sun is starting to go down pretty quickly now.

[Haley Fox]

I was gonna say it's gonna be dark pretty soon.

[Betsy Shepard]

In the western movie version of this story, the good guys get the bad guys and ride off into the sunset. But in this story, there's no tidy distinction between the good guys and the bad guys, and there's certainly no tidy ending. So we just sit on a rocky overlook and watch the sun go down. As it dips behind a mountain. The last rays of light reflect off the rock formations as darkness pulls up from the bottom of the punch bowl. The rocks look like fiery pillars floating in a sea of black. Something solid, encircled by shadows. And then the light fades from them, too. All right, the sun has set on the punch bowl. I think that's. That's our cue. Yeah. All right. And with that, we pack up our stuff and just walk away. And then, of course, I get a call from Haley a few weeks later.

[Haley Fox]

I'm calling because I just heard back from the FBI.

[Betsy Shepard]

Lol.

[Haley Fox]

It's. It's actually a pretty good update.

[Betsy Shepard]

Haley Fox, the intrepid reporter, resubmitted Our FBI request with additional information from our investigation. And this time we don't get their usual song and dance.

[Haley Fox]

They said they have 485 pages.

[Betsy Shepard]

No way, dude.

[Haley Fox]

Yes.

[Betsy Shepard]

Are you serious?

[Haley Fox]

Yes.

[Betsy Shepard]

So they were investigating the audit experience?

[Haley Fox]

It seems like it.

[Betsy Shepard]

That's important confirmation because we know that the FBI would not be investigating an isolated homicide case or disappearance.

[Haley Fox]

No, they don't get involved in anything unless there's an element of corruption or multiple victims or something like that.

[Betsy Shepard]

So when do we get our hands on these files? That's the kicker.

[Haley Fox]

They said that it will take about four years to process our records.

[Betsy Shepard]

Four years? What are they doing copying these things by hand?

[Haley Fox]

Yeah.

[Darren Hager]

Just when I thought I was out,

[Haley Fox]

they pull me back in.

[Betsy Shepard]

Terrible. That was so good that.

[Haley Fox]

Oh, boy.

[Betsy Shepard]

Okay. So. To be continued.

[Haley Fox]

To be continued.

[Betsy Shepard]

Okay, Talk to you later.

[Haley Fox]

Okay.

[Betsy Shepard]

Love you.

[Mike Bauer]

Bye.

[Betsy Shepard]

Love you. Bye. Love you.

[Darren Hager]

Bye.

[Betsy Shepard]

Okay, bye. Like, bye. For real. Get off the phone. Go away.

[Haley Fox]

I can't, Sam. If you have any information or tips related to the disappearance of John auge, please call 213-262-9889 or email Shadowsushkin FM. Valley of Shadows is reported, written and produced by us, Haley Fox Cox and Betsy Shepard. Our editor is Diane Hodson. Our executive producers are Jacob Smith and Alexandra Garriton. Original music by Jake Gorski, Ray Lynch, Mike Jersich and Hayden Gardner. Sound design by Jake Gorski. Fact checking by Annika Robbins. Additional production support by Sonya Gerwitt. And our show art was designed by Sean Carney and Betsy Shepard. Special thanks to Nick White for show art photography. Special thanks to a few more people at Pushkin who made Valley of Shadows possible. Greta Cohn, Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Morgan Ratner, Amy Hagardorn, Kira Posey, Jordan McMillan, Jake Flanagan and Owen Miller. Additional thanks to Sonic Milk Studio in Cambria, California and Porsche Street Studios in Los Angeles. And we want to thank our families for cutting us a lot of slack over this past year. Valley of Shadows is a production of Pushkin Industries. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts from. Type 2 fun. We're Haley and Betsy.

[LoseWeightNow Advertiser]

Ready to feel healthy this year? Find everything you need at loseweightnow co orderly meds gives you access to proven GLP1 medications at a lower cost, backed by real medical professionals. And yes, they ship in discreet private packaging because it's nobody's business how you're improving yourself. And your journey deserves dignity, privacy and confidence. Get started today at loseweightnow.co. individual results may vary. Visit loseweightnow.co and get started today. That's loseweightnow.co.

[Redfin Advertiser]

there's a difference between liking a house and actually getting it. Redfin is built to make up that difference and close the gap between finding and owning the home for you. Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents, so when you find a home you love, you're not a step behind when it comes to making an offer. So that means less watching great homes disappear and more focus on the one you'll call home. Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get [e-mail] own the dream this is

[Bethany Frankel]

Bethany Frankel from Just Be with Bethany Frankel. Let me be blunt. Most dog food is junk. It just is. And I'm not feeding junk to Biggie and Smalls. That is why they eat just food for dogs. It's real, 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. Not mystery pellets pretending to be healthy. And once I switch, the difference was obvious. Better digestion, better skin, more energy. Dogs who actually feel good instead of just surviving dinner. Here's the thing. You care about quality. You make an intentional choice to be healthy. So why are you gambling with your dog's health? So let's think about our furry babies. Go to justfood for dogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code. Just try it. Because once you see the difference, you're not going back.