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This is the Value Investor podcast with Tracy Reinek. All things value, all the time.
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Welcome back, value investors. So this is an important podcast this week because the stock market is still soaring and a lot of us, yes, even us value investors, have found ourselves holding on to big winning stocks. How do you know when to sell a winning stock? That's a question I get asked a lot. And it becomes even more problematic for us, you know, who are value investors, because most value investors tend to buy and hold. We're in it for the long term and so we could have been in certain stocks for quite a long time, years in fact. And now they've taken off and, you know, you know, which is a good thing. They're soaring. But we are beginning to wonder, should I take this off the table? Should I cash in? When do you know how to sell those winning stocks? So the first thing I always tell people is that you should have a plan for any of your investing, whether or not you're a value investor, growth investor, an income investor, or why are you investing in stocks? Why do you own this stock? That's always the first question. Have a plan and then have a strategy for that plan. So say maybe your plan is retirement. So you are investing for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years down the road. Perhaps that's going to encompass a little bit different strategy than someone who is trading or only wants to hold for a month, or only is looking to double their money and get out or is only looking for that 20% winner and then they're going to get out. There's a lot of different goals you can have in investing and then that is going to change your strategy. But buy and hold investors like us on the value side, we do tend to hold for the longer period of time. So I'm going to assume most value investors are not in the quick trade camp, but some of us might be caught up in kind of the mania stocks that are out there right now because some of these stocks have had real value components in the past. And, you know, lucky you, maybe you bought some of these just even a couple months ago, a year ago, and now you have these huge winners and you're wondering what to do. So let's take a look at a couple of stocks that I would put in this category that I feel value investors might be in. We've talked about all of these, I think at some point on the podcast over the years, but I've been doing this podcast for, what is it all, almost 10 years now. So we've covered a lot of stocks. But a lot of value stocks are back in vogue now during the AI revolution. A lot of old economy type companies are coming in to favor again. And a lot of these, let's be honest, were value stocks back in the day over the last 10 years. They aren't in the glamorous categories usually or they've just been. Even if they were, they were in the out of favor category. So let's just dive right in. I'm bringing you three stocks today just to take a look and to talk about should we be selling it? How do we know? Okay, the first one is going to be. Let's start with Micron. We've talked about it many times because it's always been cheap and it shows up in a lot of the screens right now it is a Zach's number one rank. The ticker again on Micron. M as in Mary you. M as in Mary you. So we've got the number one rank. And this would show up on some of my screens. Even though it has a style score of F for value, it's got an A for growth, but an F for momentum. This just goes to tell you, I never know what's going on with the style scores for these scores necessarily because I'm not sure why it's an F for momentum when it's soaring and it's one of the hottest stocks out there. But there is, you know, there is a screen and there, there are pieces that go into each of these style scores. So something in there on the momentum side is not looking good for Micron. I'm not sure what it is on momentum, but we'll just disregard the F on momentum for right now. But it does have an F for value as well, which is kind of surprising to me because the forward P e is just 11, so that is cheap. I look for stocks at 15 and under, as you know, and we're almost in the 10 and under there on the PE. A lot of the other components, though, are stretched now. Price to book is at 9.9 and the price to sales is at 12.4. So on the price to book, I look at 3 and under and we're at 9.9. So that's pretty stretched for value investors. Price to sales is at 12.4 and anything over 10 is considered pretty excessive. When we get over 10, there's going to be pressure on that stock pretty much. And the company eventually it can stay over 10 for a long time though, as we've seen with Nvidia and some of the other AI Revolution stocks right now and for the last, say, three years. So you can't immediately discount it when you see that 12 on the price to sales. But a true value investor would not be buying it at this level. That's just a little too pricey, unless we were only using pe, and that's our only factor that we wanted to go off of. And then it does have some value there. But what is going on with Micron and why would we want to be selling it? So it is up in the last year now, 688%. And Micron is on the storage side and it is finding itself in high demand for the AI Revolution. Now, Micron is a cyclical stock, as we call them, and that means it has these cycles where there's strong demand for its storage products and then there isn't. And then we get the stock surging and going higher and it gets cheaper when it does that, and then it doesn't. So right now we're obviously in this up cycle and it has gotten cheaper on the PE basis. But now we're sitting on these, you know, enormous gains. And a lot of those gains have been priced in, even just in the last month, over the last month. So 30 days, this is after the March 30 lows during the Iran war where we've had a big rally. It is up 68% in that time period. So quite the move, just even in the last month. And this is what is making a lot of people wonder, should I be selling this? If you were in it last year and you got in it because it was cheap, even cheaper last year, and you know, you were playing the cyclical up trend. The estimates did start to rise last year for 2026 and 2027. Then you were in early, and so you are getting this big gain. But let's take a look at why it's got the Zach's number one rank, because that is a detail that is interesting to me, if I'm deciding whether or not I want to sell, doesn't report again until June because it's on the fiscal year. So it's a little bit off of the rest on earnings reports. So we're waiting for that. But in the last 60 days, we've had 12 estimates revised higher for this fiscal year and none have been lowered. One is higher in the last 30 days as well. And then for next fiscal year, 11 are higher in the last 60 days and two in the last 30 days. So everybody's bullish. Nobody's cutting the quarters are all up as well. And these are dramatic. The reason the shares are surging is because the fundamentals are really surging. The demand is this strong. So for the year they're now looking for 5837 and it was just 60 days ago, 3424. So almost a doubling in 60 days. That is unprecedented. And so then we're seeing the unprecedented gains in the stock back as well. And then for next year, and this is key if you're a long term shareholder, if you believe that they can keep doing this and that the demand will be there, then next fiscal year they're looking for 9,708. And so this year, 58, 37, 97, 08. So this year earnings are expected to be up 604%. It only made $8.29 last year and now it's at 58, 37. As I said, for the consensus, that is numbers you don't see very often. And this is the conundrum for a lot of value investors. We got in when it was cheap and it still is fairly cheap on the PE basis at least. And now we've seen just a tremendous gain and we are starting to get a little nervous. Right. But that's why when I look the detailed estimates on a stock like this, I feel a bit better. Now there's no guarantee because this is just a consensus and the earnings estimates change daily on Zack Satcom and we're going to get that next earnings report come in June. But for now, everything that the consensus estimates are showing is what you want to see as an investor, either short term or long term. This is the kind of earnings growth that most investors will kill for. So next year, 2027, we're expected to see 66.3% gain again next year. And it all comes down to can they do it? Will the demand remain this strong? If you think the answer is yes, then this is looking like quite the hold on a P E basis at least. And on the revenue, huge gains in the revenue, up 194%. Hard to believe these numbers for a big cap stock. I know I've said this with Nvidia over the last couple of years that we would never see this again, what Nvidia was doing as a large cap. But maybe I need to revise that a bit now that I'm looking at these numbers, that maybe Micron is going to give it a run for the money. It's not as big a market cap as Nvidia, but it's still expected on the sales side, to make 110 billion in sales. It only made 37 billion last year. And then next fiscal year, 175 billion, up another 60% for next year. So all the things on the fundamentals are looking pretty good. And it just really comes down to, do you believe that the AI revolution and the demand for their products will continue at this pace? If you are feeling nervous and this goes into the plan and then your strategy on what you're doing with your investments, but if, if this is keeping you up at night and you just keep looking at it going up almost every day and you think, no, this is a little outrageous. Nobody says you have to sell your full position. I've said this many times on the show. You, you don't have to just dump everything and walk away. That's the beauty of owning the individual shares. You can just sell a portion of your position and lock in some of this tremendous gain. There again is never anything wrong with taking profit. And then you can let the rest of it ride and see what happens. But a lot, for a lot of long term investors like us, that helps us to feel a bit better. And I think we've kind of seen that behavior in Berkshire Hathaway in the last couple of years. As Warren Buffett was winding down his tenure as CEO, he had the big run in Apple and he has over the years sold a little bit of chunks of it here or there, mostly to just rebalance his portfolio. But this time he sold a big chunk. But as even he has said recently, they still own a lot of shares of Apple. And so if the stock continues to rise, which we are actually seeing right now, they're not really missing out on anything by getting out when they did on a certain portion of it. And now they're just sitting there in the cash waiting for other opportunities. So they're still benefiting and they are feeling a little bit better having locked in those magnificent gains that they have after owning Apple for about 10 years in the Berkshire Hathaway portfolio. So this is Micron. It still does have the good fundamentals. Yes, it's very hot right now and it feels overdone. When everybody's talking about it, there's a little bit of disbelief, you know, how much higher can it go? Kind of talk out there. And just remember, no stock goes up for forever. No trees grow all the way to the sky. And there will be pullbacks. There was a pullback in Micron back in March, quite a big pullback during the Iran war. And then we had another surge in the shares here off of those March 30 lows. So keep your strategy at hand. But as I always say, if you can't sleep at night, then you have to take some kind of action to relieve your anxiety. And there's something great in selling a big, big winner like this one. So that's Micron Ticker Mu. Another stock that value investors might have found themselves in on the tech side is Intel. I've covered it many times on this podcast because it has been cheap for years and years and years. But now, now in 2026, it has caught a bid and it's busted out to new all time highs, surpassing the dot com high it has taken 26 years to get there. And that's why a lot of people have abandoned intel over the years, because the stock just couldn't regain its former glory. And while it was cheap over many years, it did have value trap components to switched CEOs a couple of times in there as they were trying to find the right way forward for the company. And now, is this it? Is this it? You might have been in it even just last year again as the shares started to catch a bid, then the US government took a stake in it as well and maybe saw that as a sign, hey, maybe I should just, you know, be in this. It was cheap, but now not so much. So Intel INTC is not a number one, it's a number three right now. So that's just the hold. 80% of Zach's ranked stocks are in the number three category. So it's neither good nor bad. I own a lot of number three stocks. Intel doesn't report again until July, so we're gonna have to wait until then. They did have a big beat in this last earnings and that has put a bid under the stock. So where do we stand on Intel? It's actually outperforming Micron over the last month since those March 30 lows. And in this big tech and AI rally, it's up 112% in just the last month and almost, not quite double Micron, but almost. And Micron is getting all the glory as being like one of the top hot stocks right over the last year, whereas Micron was up, you know, almost 700%. And now as I'm recording this and I'm clicking on it, it is up 700% in the last year now. So it's rallying as we're recording this podcast. But intel not too shabby either. It's up 451% over the last year. And that's where we got the breakout. So I know many of you are in it and maybe you're in in disbelief because we've had our ups and downs over the years and it never seemed to want to be able to break out. So let's take a look at what is happening with its earnings. Given the big earnings beat and then the stock continuing to break out in the last 30 days, even the estimates are on their way higher. But we have a problem with valuation now and as value investors we do obviously look at this. PE is at 103 now on intel, even though the estimates are on the rise. So in the last 30 days since this last earnings report, 18 estimates have been revised higher for 2026. That's basically all the analysts we have, they've all revised higher and for 2027, 14 have revised higher. Nobody has cut for 26, but one estimate is lower in the last 30 days and 60 days for 2027. But we're going to look at that 30 day. So 2027, that could just be one analyst who got maybe too bullish and they had to pull it back a little after this last earnings report. So on the earnings they were expecting only $0.01 and they reported $0.29. So massive beat, that's what the big green arrow shows. And that is a 28% 2,800% beats there. And it mirrors some of the ones it's been doing in recent quarters. They've all been big beats. So suddenly intel is doing much better than everyone expected and it's able to keep it going forward here. That's the key. It's had good quarters here and there over the years, but it never could string together really good things going on in consecutive quarters. And now we have 105 expected for the full year and that's up from 45 cents just 30 days ago. So you can see the really big gain there. That's a gain of 150% over last year when they made 42 cents. So you can see the analysts weren't buying in whatever story intel was telling either until now. Because a year ago $0.42 and this consensus was at only $0.45. So just a gain of $0.03 year over year. But now we're at 105. So the story has changed. And next year looking for 134 which is a gain of 27.8%. We've got single digit revenue growth, but it's, it's better than what it's been in the past. So 9.1% revenue growth expected for 26 and 8.3 for 27. So that's not too shabby. But the main key is on valuations. It does have that sky high PE now of 103 because the shares are running so hot. Price to sales, 10.1. So remember, 10 and above is pretty stretched on price to sales. Price to book, 4.3, so that's not cheap either. I look for three and under. It's not as stretched as Micron was, but it's not dirt cheap either. So intel wouldn't really show up in my value screens. And on the style score, it's giving me an F for value. But Micron was too. But at least Micron had the low pe. Even if everything else was out of the range, it's a little too high. But intel doesn't really have anything in the range for value. It's got B for growth and A for momentum. On this one, I'm not sure why. Why does it get the A? I, you know, inquiring minds want to know. And it's got a C overall score. But this one is definitely on the momentum side. And given Intel's track record over the last 26 years, it makes sense that investors here could be feeling a bit nervous and wondering, should I just get out of this? Yes, the estimates are going in the right way and in a big way. Very nice gains on those earnings. But if you're a value invest, this is extremely stretched here and you might want to rethink what your strategy and plan is. If you were buying it for its value, it no longer has that. And in this big rally that we've had in a lot of the AI stocks and if you're a long term investor, many of your value stocks will turn into growth stocks and move out of the value category eventually. That's the hope, at least, that we're buying when no one else is paying attention, when it's hated by the street and we're getting in so cheap that even if the stock does run up, our original investment was still bought at the cheap level and we're still getting those earnings at the cheap level. But even a stock like Apple, which Buffett again bought 10 years ago at around 10 times earnings, it was trading as high as 34 times earnings and he still owns a big chunk of it. And it's still trading at elevated levels, a level that I don't believe he would be able to buy the stock at now. But he has the low in on most of those shares. And so he is just willing to let it ride for the growth now because he got in at such a great price. And that's another thing value investors have to keep in mind. We're not, not chasing the growth necessarily. We were in it to get a breakout like this and to turn around like this in a stock like Intel. But now we have the turnaround. So remember, have a plan, have a strategy. What was your intentions with owning intel and can you sleep at night? And is this the type of stock as a value investor you want to own going forward? It does have the momentum here and you know, it doesn't seem to be stopping at the moment. But get your strategy if you're the value investor and decide is this growth good enough for you? And do will they continue with this growth? The same kind of analysis we made with Micron, although Micron's numbers just look a lot better than what Intel's are looking at. So I always wanted to buy intel because it was cheap and it was hated. But now it's not cheap and it's not hated. So it kind of removes it from the value scenario for me as a value investor. So that's intel intc. And then I want to get out of tech a bit because there are other stocks that are surging right now that were definitely in the realm of value investors over the years because they're old economy stocks. And we've talked about some of these in terms of the AI revolution like on the heating and cooling side, especially cooling with the data centers. A lot of those are old economy type stocks like Eaton. But I wanted to talk about one that suddenly has become an AI revolution stock that we might not have thought was and it's been on a incredible run and is now at new highs and that is Caterpillar ticker cat. This is also a cyclical construction and mining equipment but it's really on the construction side that makes it a high revolution because surprise, if you're going to build a lot of data centers, you're going to need equipment and things to do all of this. And that's what Caterpillar makes. So earnings are looking good and the shares are surging. So Caterpillar tickers Cat, let's see in the last year the shares are up 185% now. And so not quite on the level of Micron or Intel. But you know, we're not, we're not sad about that kind of gain with an old economy stock that has been around forever. Like Caterpillar and, and what's that one been doing over the last month? You know, it's not normally put in the category of a Micron or an intel where you're just kind of shaking your head. But caterpillar up 29% in the last month off of those March lows and so that's not too shabby either. And then even looking at Eaton, which I'm not really going to talk about, but maybe I am now also old economy on the cooling side and that that stock's up 16.4% in the last month but that's kind of mirroring the S&P 500 a bit more which has had this tremendous run in the last month. But year to date on some of These intel up 179Micron up 107, Caterpillar up 53% year to date through May, early May and then even Eaton up 27.6% through early May. All of these are just great performances. But you wouldn't necessarily think about should I sell my Caterpillar? Because there are a lot of long term investors in Caterpillar. It's always paid a dividend to keep you in and now it's busting out to these new all time highs seemingly daily now actually. So let's take a look at that, their detailed estimates to see what's going on. It's A Zach's number three as well, which is the hold. It's got a style score, F for value. All three of these are F4 values. C for growth on this one, A for momentum. We do have the A again on this one. Caterpillar forward p E of 37.9. So that's stretched now, but what are we doing on the growth side? So if I had bought this a couple of years ago, I know many of you, you might have bought, you know, longer ago than that. But a lot of people like to buy as soon as those earnings estimates start going up. So some of you might have been buying as of last year after the liberation day sell off. That was an attractive point to get in because the stock has really rallied since then as we've seen on the one year chart. So Caterpillar, what are the analysts doing? It did have a big beat this last earnings quarter, a beat of 21%. So it's beat three quarters in a row now, pretty sizable beats. And so the market likes that. And what's happening with those estimates? So for the full year, eight are higher in the last 30 days, but five in the last week. Five estimates higher in the last week now. And then for next year, six are higher in the last week. So next earnings are in August, August 4th. So this is all off their recent earnings. And one estimate has been cut for 27, but only in the last 30 days. So the more recent estimates are going to trump that. I'm kind of surprised we're not getting a higher rank, but we may because the rank can change daily. And a lot is going on with the rank right now because we're in the heart of earnings season. Over 1200 companies reporting even just this week, the week of May 4, 2026. So when you get this many companies reporting a lot of changes to the earnings estimates and to the Zacks ranks. So we'll see a lot of new names popping up on the Zacks rank. But what is going on with those earnings for this year? So now with all these earnings revisions higher and they beat pretty sizably in the quarter, we're looking for 2384, up from 2289 in before the earnings in the last week and then next year 2945, that's up from 2806. So everybody is bullish about next year as well. How does this compare with last year? They made 1906 and now we're looking at 2384. That's a gain of 25% and another 23% for next year. These are outstanding numbers in the growth category for a big cap that's been around for forever like Caterpillar. This is the bull cycle for Caterpillar going on right now. And that's why we do see the gains in the stock on the revenue side. Double digits for this year, 11.4% expected and then next year 9.9%. These are also very good numbers. So we are in the upcycle for Caterpillar because the equipment is cyclical and so you like that. We do have the stretched on the valuations though with that 37 PE. But the PE will rise in this kind of cycle. It won't be as cheap, but we probably owned it when it was cheaper. And so this is the same question we keep asking, should we sell our winning stock here. Well, if you have owned Caterpillar say for the last year and or you're a longer term shareholder in it, you're very aware of the ups and downs in Caterpillar's business and you're aware to hold on while the cycle is to the upside here. And I would use the Zack's rank and these changes in earnings estimates to help guide me. Even though these are the Zacks Rank is just a short term recommendation and will change every quarter. It is signaling something pretty good is going on at the company right here and has been for a while as those earnings estimates have moved higher and it's got the growth both. So if you've already been in it at a lower price then this is the time to ride these kind of cycles in a stock like Caterpillar. But again, what is your plan? What is your strategy? Are you sleeping at night? Should you just take off a portion of your gains, lock that in and then let the rest ride? That is something only you can decide. But Caterpillar has been known to burn a lot of people who think they can time it perfectly and getting out, you know, before the shares come back down basically. But we, we see it in the earnings data on those estimates on what is expected to happen here and we've got the growth going. And if you're in one of these, this is when you want to be in it. So what do the other valuations look like on the price to book? It's at 22, price of sales at 5.9. They build these big equipment so they're going to have a lot of debt. They've got manufacturing facilities around the world. There's a lot that goes into this business. So I'm not looking at it like I would a tech business or you know, something like software where it has these incredible margins and, and you don't have manufacturing facilities everywhere. So a little bit different to look at Caterpillar but this seems to be the time when you do want to be in is growing those earnings. It is back in the up cycle and things are looking good. After last year where earnings were actually on the decline by 13% they declined. So is this an AI revolution play? Are all three of these AI revolution plays? They look like it but if we're talking about these red hot stocks, they're pretty much going to be in this category along with Eaton and Eaton also just reported. Let's just take a look as an added bonus on Eaton, it's trading at 30 times so a little more appropriate for value investors. And it's not directly skyrocketing either even though the shares are near their all time highs here. Like I said, it's more of a regular steady Eddie, a good performer and we are up nicely this year. And so that is also the kind of stock many of us value investors own. So we got the 30 on the PE price to sales now is at 5.5. Price to book is at 8. So those are a little stretched for me. PEG is at 2.8. We'll see if we get any changes. We just got these earnings in and it sometimes takes the analysts a little bit of time to get the, the changes in. But let's see, nobody in the last week has done anything yet, but we're looking for 1330 for this year. That is up from 1207 last year, up 10.2%. And then next year expecting a little bit faster growth, up 15% for next year. But is this the type of growth where you should be holding if you know the shares continue to see these big rallies? That's in your plan and in your strategy. Right now it's also a number three ranked stock. A D for value. Finally we have one that's not to going not, not quite as bad, B for growth, D for momentum. But like I said, this has been more volatile than the other three. And it's not skyrocketing every day. It's kind of just quietly doing its thing and hitting new highs and then it'll have a pullback, which it has had here in May, a little bit of a pullback. So give you buying opportunities. But is this a cheap value stock right here? No. So new investors have a different calculation, but the fundamentals are still really solid with Eaton and it's doing its old economy thing. But the difference is it's not as hated and it's not as out of the limelight as we like to see with many value stocks. So how do you know when to sell a winning stock? There is no bell that goes off. I really recommend people have a plan. Even when you first start out in investing. What is the reason for doing this investing? What is the purpose for this money and have a strategy around that. A lot of people do like to put in. You know, If I gain 20%, then I will sell. But that's not as common for us long term investors because it goes against our long term philosophy. If I sold when it was up 20% on caterpillar, I would have sold quite a long time ago and I wouldn't have, I wouldn't be in it. So long term it's, it's a lot more difficult. But we have a lot of opportunities here and a lot of opportunities to take some of our winning stocks off the table and lock in those gains, even if it's just a portion of our total position. So don't think it's, you know, all or nothing on selling the Stocks. And another just little tidbit. You're never going to time it personal, you know, you're never going to have perfect timing basically because nobody can, not even Buffett. And I've seen some comments about his Apple sales recently when now that Apple is busting out again that you know, oh he sold too soon or oh he left this much money on the table. Once you sell you not really thinking about it because he still has that other big position there that's still going up. So he's just sitting there in cash waiting to deploy that money. It's not a bad position to be in. Cash is king. It is a powerful thing to have any kind of cash sitting there waiting for opportunities for U.S. value investors. And you don't have to have all or nothing like I said. So let's recap the stocks I talked about again. So there was Micron. It is one of the hottest stocks on the street. It is a cyclical but that growth is just tremendous. Among the best I've seen other than Nvidia during this AI cycle. As long as it does it, you can see why the stock is surging. So that's Micron Ticker Mu. Then we had Intel. I can't believe I'm even talking about it amongst these other names, but I am. Intel INTC is the ticker and it's busting out to new all time highs. But it is an expensive stock now even though it does have a decent growth trajectory. Can it continue with this growth? That's the question. And then Caterpillar Ticker Cat Cat for Caterpillar. It's looking good and it's in its upcycle and it's part of the AI revolution now apparently. So it's got all things humming and not cheap but it's got the growth components. So that's Caterpillar Cat and then we talked briefly about Eaton on the cooling side for the AI revolution and it's the cheapest among these three. But even it's not that cheap anymore. Ticker E T as in Tom and as in Nancy ETN and as always maybe I'll bring you some real value stocks next week. But a lot of our value stocks are now growth names and it's good to check in and see what would we do with this, this terrible thing that's happening that we have winning stocks on the value side. Many of you do and it's a great thing. So enjoy, enjoy this period while even value stocks are seeing this upside. But I can still find those classic value stocks and I will find them going forward because outside of the AI revolution, there are a lot of names that are have sold off. We've looked at software stocks and there's a lot on the consumer side that's not looking too good here. But maybe there's some deals and some bargains in there and maybe we will get the next Caterpillar if we're snooping around in those other names. So be sure to join us, get us on Apple podcasts, get us on Spotify, get us on Amazon music and on YouTube. We have our own channel, as you know on Zach's podcast there, and I know many of you are subscribing there. So subscribe, subscribe somewhere and like us and leave a comment and I'll see you again next week with some more
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value stocks this material is being provided for informational purposes only and nothing herein constitutes investment, legal, accounting or tax advice or a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold a security. Do not act or rely upon the information and advice given in this podcast without seeking the services of competent and professional legal, tax or accounting counsel. Publication and distribution of this podcast is not intended to create and the information contained herein does not constitute an attorney client relationship. No recommendation or advice is being given as to whether any investment or strategy is suitable for a particular investor. It should not be assumed that any investments in securities, company sectors or markets identified and described were or will be profitable. All information is current as of the date herein and is subject to change without notice. Any views or opinions of expressed may not reflect those of Zack's investment research as a whole.