One thing that I don’t like about Claude is that you get into this weird mental state: oh, I think I trust the model. Let’s do the slot machine. Hit click, which puts you in an inactive mode of thinking. Maybe it’s better to use a worse model….

Vincent Warmerdam, senior data professional and prolific open-source maintainer (some packages with over a million downloads), now Engineer at marimo, joins Hugo to talk about how the Python notebook is evolving from a static scratchpad into a working agent harness, and what it takes to stay in the loop as a developer when agents are writing most of the code. This episode was originally a livestream Q&A with the Vanishing Gradients audience.

We Discuss:

* Shared Notebook Canvas: Notebooks act as a shared memory space where agents and humans co-exist, enabling real-time visual feedback by direct manipulation of global state and UI elements;

* Speed-of-Thought Models: Faster, open-weight models like Kimi K2 enhance exploratory flow by keeping humans more alert to the code, unlike frontier models that can induce passive thinking;

* Pi as a Harness: Vincent favors an agent harness where agents extend themselves rather than reach for MCP, and where hooks can rigidly constrain which files an agent is allowed to read or touch;

* Why PRDs Don’t Fit Notebooks: Notebook work is fundamentally exploratory, so the discipline that works for shipping web apps does not transfer cleanly; the one exception is reproducing a paper;

* Interactive Code Review: Interactive UIs (e.g., dragging integers) transform code into a physical object, incentivizing developers to actively review and understand agent logic;

* Modular “Lego” Components: Provide agents with high-level, well-tested components (”Lego” code) instead of raw boilerplate, creating systems that are easier to debug and modulate;

* Algorithm-Driven Visualization: Let the algorithm dictate the visualization needed, rather than choosing visualizations first, revealing the most interesting structures within the data;

* Don’t Outsource the Thinking: Pen and paper architectural planning, walks away from the keyboard, and protecting calm remain the most effective ways to keep producing good ideas in the age of AI-generated software.

* Agent Auto-Healing: A marimo-specific linter solved 60% of agent errors overnight by letting agents diagnose and fix their own “slop” without complex prompt engineering;

* Incremental Generation: Avoid monolithic LLM outputs; generate code one to two cells at a time to prevent laziness and ensure human oversight and learning;

Vincent closes on the idea that calm, not the latest frontier model, is the most underrated tool for building well, and that we should study LLM output the way chess players studied the engines that beat them.

Vincent gives several live demos toward the end of the episode. He describes them well enough to follow on audio, but the visuals are worth seeing, so check out the YouTube version here.

You can also find the full episode on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube.

You can also interact directly with the transcript here in NotebookLM: If you do so, let us know anything you find in the comments!

👉 Want to learn how to apply agentic engineering to the world of data science? Come build the future of Agentic Data Science with us in our upcoming course. It’s a live cohort with hands on exercises, capstones, and reusable agent skills, OSS code, and notebooks that will 10x your data science projects. Sign up here and use the code ADSVG10 for 10% off.👈

Also join us for Ep. 3 of Show Us Your Agent Skills: with Vincent, Paul Iusztin (Decoding AI), Eleanor Berger (Elite AI-Assisted Coding), Alan Nichol (Rasa), Nico Gerold (amp), and Matthew Honnibal (spaCy, Explosion).

Register on lu.ma to join live, or catch the recording afterwards.

LINKS

* Vincent Warmerdam on LinkedIn

* Vincent’s website (koaning.io)

* Wiggly Stuff — Vincent’s widget library

* Marimo Gallery

* skills.sh

* Armin Ronacher on Pi (the minimal agent inside open claw)

* Building Agents That Build Themselves — Hugo’s workshop write-up with Ivan Leo

* Data Science Fiction: Winning at Metrics, Losing at AI Evals — Hugo’s blog post based on Vincent’s talk

* Isaac Flath’s project (on X)

* Braid (video game)

* Hugo’s earlier podcast with Akshay (marimo)

* Elite AI Assisted Coding — Eleanor Berger’s course (Vanishing Gradients community gets 25% off with code “HUGO”)

* GameMakers Toolkit (YouTube)

* Upcoming Events on Luma

* Vanishing Gradients on YouTube

* Come build the future of Agentic Data Science with us in our upcoming course (10% off) .

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