Velshi Banned Book Club: "War in Literature" Episode Summary

Release Date: September 26, 2024
Host: Ali Velshi
Guest: Tim O’Brien, Author of "The Things They Carried"
Producer and Literary Editor: Hannah Holland

Introduction to Wartime Literature

In the "War in Literature" episode of MSNBC’s "Velshi Banned Book Club," host Ali Velshi delves into the rich tradition of wartime literature, highlighting its role in reflecting and shaping societal understandings of war. Velshi introduces the episode by tracing the lineage of war-inspired narratives, from ancient epics like "The Iliad" and "Beowulf" to modern classics such as Ernest Hemingway’s "A Farewell to Arms" and the darkly comedic MASH series by Richard Hooker. These works, Velshi emphasizes, not only immortalize the experiences of soldiers but also explore the profound societal changes wrought by war.

Focus on "The Things They Carried"

The episode centers on Tim O’Brien’s acclaimed novel, "The Things They Carried," a pivotal work in contemporary war literature. Originally published in 1990 and a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize, the novel serves as a cornerstone in American education and has frequently been both celebrated and challenged in schools across the nation.

Key Themes Explored:

1. Guilt and Shame:

   • Velshi references a poignant passage where O’Brien illustrates the pervasive sense of guilt and blame felt by soldiers:

     “You could blame the war. You could blame the idiots who made the war. You could blame Kiowa for going into it. ... You could blame God.” ([08:32])

   • Tim O’Brien elaborates on how these emotions are universal among soldiers, often leading to introspection and self-blame for survival hesitations or for the deaths of comrades.

2. The Power of Storytelling:

   • O’Brien discusses storytelling as both a cathartic and communicative act:

     “Telling stories see a natural, inevitable process, like clearing the throat...” ([13:37])

   • Hannah Holland adds that stories bridge personal experiences with universal truths, allowing readers to empathetically engage with the horrors and emotional toll of war.

3. Fiction vs. Memoir:

   • O’Brien explains his choice to present his war experiences through fiction rather than a straightforward memoir:

     “In the story, you can write about what almost happened, but didn't.” ([16:19])

   • This narrative freedom allows for a more cohesive and emotionally resonant portrayal of his experiences, capturing the fragmented and chaotic nature of wartime memory.

4. Authenticity and Profanity:

   • The novel is noted for its raw language and unfiltered depiction of war, which has led to its frequent challenges in educational settings:

     “If you don’t care for obscenity, you don’t care for the truth.” ([07:44])

   • O’Brien defends his use of profanity as essential for conveying the authentic voices and experiences of soldiers.

Impact and Reception

The conversation highlights the book’s enduring relevance and its profound impact on both veterans and their families. O’Brien shares how "The Things They Carried" has provided insight to the families of veterans, helping them understand the silent struggles their loved ones endure post-war.

Notable Insights:

• Empathy and Understanding:

  “I know at least something of what's going on in my dad's head when he falls silent at the dinner table and stares into space.” ([20:29])

• Story as Memory Preservation:

  “Story lasts in a way that facts sometimes diminish over time.” ([32:19])

• Youth and War:

  “There was a curiously playful atmosphere... like a sporting event at some exotic reform school.” ([34:58])

Comparisons with Other War Literature

Velshi and Holland discuss how "The Things They Carried" compares to other war narratives, such as Stephen Crane’s "The Red Badge of Courage." While O’Brien praised Crane’s work for its authentic portrayal of the Civil War, he personally found "The Red Badge of Courage" less impactful until revisiting it years later.

Tim O’Brien’s Reflections:

“He owns it... he's so in control of his memory of the war and his experience.” ([28:07])

Modern Relevance and Educational Importance

The episode underscores the book’s critical role in education, advocating for its inclusion despite controversies. The discussion points out that just as literature like "The Things They Carried" facilitates understanding of historical and personal traumas, it remains essential for contemporary society to engage with such narratives to foster empathy and awareness.

Ali Velshi’s Observation:

“The drudgery... what happens in the in between times when you're alone with your mind, your stories and your buddies.” ([37:15])

Conclusion and Future Directions

As the episode wraps up, Velshi hints at upcoming discussions focusing on non-fiction memoirs like Roxane Gay’s "Hunger: A Memoir of My Body" and Jeannette Walls’ "The Glass Castle," emphasizing their roles as windows into diverse and profound personal experiences. The episode reinforces the notion that storytelling, whether fictionalized or factual, remains a powerful tool for understanding and resisting censorship and book banning.

Key Quotes with Timestamps

• Tim O’Brien on Guilt and Blame:

  “You could blame the war. You could blame the idiots who made the war... You could blame God.” ([08:32])

• Ali Velshi on Storytelling:

  “Story lasts in a way that facts sometimes diminish over time.” ([32:19])

• Hannah Holland on Emotional Honesty:

  “War... you do have to be honest about yourself, your own experience and the fundamental evil of people killing other people.” ([13:37])

• Tim O’Brien on Fictionalizing War:

  “In the story, you can write about what almost happened, but didn't.” ([16:19])

• Reflection on Youth in War:

  “There was a curiously playful atmosphere... like a sporting event at some exotic reform school.” ([34:58])

Final Thoughts

The "War in Literature" episode of "Velshi Banned Book Club" offers a deep and nuanced exploration of Tim O’Brien’s "The Things They Carried," situating it within the broader context of war literature and its societal implications. Through insightful dialogue and poignant reflections, the episode underscores the enduring power of storytelling in capturing the human experience of war and resisting the forces of censorship and misinformation.

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