16 Crosses and a State in Mourning, ICE gets Ambushed plus Brennan & Comey in DOJ Crosshairs Week In Review

Summary

Verdict with Ted Cruz – Episode 16 Summary: "Crosses and a State in Mourning, ICE gets Ambushed plus Brennan & Comey in DOJ Crosshairs Week In Review"

Release Date: July 12, 2025

In this poignant and gripping episode of "Verdict with Ted Cruz," Senator Ted Cruz and co-host Ben Ferguson delve into three major stories that have dominated the headlines this week. The episode provides an in-depth analysis of the devastating flood at Camp Mystic, the alarming rise in attacks against ICE agents, and the surprising DOJ investigations into former intelligence officials John Brennan and James Comey. Below is a detailed summary capturing the essence of their discussions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

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1. Camp Mystic Flooding: A State in Mourning

[03:38 – 17:13]

Overview: Senator Ted Cruz begins the episode by recounting his visit to Camp Mystic, a site ravaged by a catastrophic flood. He provides a vivid account of the destruction and the profound impact on the community.

Key Points:

• Destruction Details: Cruz describes the scene at Camp Mystic, highlighting the immense damage caused by the flood. He notes the false reporting by the press regarding the cabins' proximity to the riverbank, clarifying that the cabins were actually set back significantly, with all structures at similar elevations.

• Emotional Impact: The Senator shares his emotional experience walking through the flooded cabins, witnessing shattered windows and swept-away furniture. He emphasizes the human cost, mentioning the 16 white crosses bearing the names of young girls who lost their lives, including Dick Eastland, the camp director who drowned while attempting a rescue.

• Community Grief: Cruz observes the deep mourning within the community, witnessing parents and families grieving the loss of their children. He underscores the ongoing search for the missing 11 children and the relentless grief faced by the survivors.

Notable Quotes:

• Senator Ted Cruz at [07:45]: “There are 11 that are missing. And there were girls picking through the rubble. I don't know if those girls were campers themselves who had survived. I don't know if they're siblings who had lost a sibling. But everyone is walking around. Shell shock doesn't begin to describe it.”

• Cruz at [11:00]: “Our state is mourning right now.”

• Cruz at [15:39]: “This is a time for the church. One of the reasons Texas I think we are so resilient when facing natural disasters is because the church is strong in Texas.”

Humanitarian Response: Cruz highlights the spirit of Texan resilience and community support, mentioning the transformation of the Hunt Store sign to "Hunt Strong" as a symbol of solidarity. He shares an inspiring story of a barbecue truck from Rockport that, despite their own devastation from Hurricane Harvey, Texans from Hunt provided free barbecue to those in need, exemplifying the state's unwavering support during crises.

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2. Rise in Attacks on ICE Agents: Rhetoric and Responsibility

[18:50 – 27:55]

Overview: The discussion shifts to the unsettling increase in threats and violent attacks against Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents. Cruz and Ferguson explore the potential link between this spike in violence and the inflammatory rhetoric from Democratic leaders.

Key Points:

• Recent Attacks: Cruz details recent violent incidents targeting ICE agents, including a planned ambush in McAllen, Texas, where an active shooter killed one police officer and threatened federal agents. He emphasizes that no ICE agents were harmed, but the incident underscores the growing danger faced by law enforcement.

• Democratic Rhetoric: The hosts scrutinize statements from prominent Democratic figures that have demonized ICE agents, labeling them as "Nazis," "Gestapo," and "fascists." They argue that such language incites hatred and justifies violence against these officials.

• Impact on Law Enforcement: Cruz connects the hostile rhetoric to real-world consequences, suggesting that demeaning ICE agents fuels anger and resentment, leading to violent actions against them. He cites specific incidents and remarks from Democratic leaders to illustrate this trend.

Notable Quotes:

• Cruz at [21:47]: “When you call them Nazis, when you call them Gestapo, lunatics on the left hear that? And sadly, we are seeing over and over again they are acting, they're acting with violence.”

• Ferguson at [23:21]: “Words have consequences. And we have seen the consequences as before.”

• Cruz at [27:10]: “James Comey and John Brennan are being criminally investigated for felony conduct. That's what's happening right now.”

Legislative Actions and Repercussions: Cruz discusses recent legislative attempts by Democrats to undermine ICE operations, such as requiring visible IDs and banning masks for ICE officers during enforcement actions. He portrays these measures as not only ineffective but also as further endangering ICE agents by exposing them to potential threats.

Severity of Consequences: Highlighting the severity of the situation, Cruz points out that multiple individuals have been arrested for plotting to ambush ICE officers, with severe felony charges and mandatory prison terms. He underscores that the violence against ICE is a direct fallout of the dehumanizing language used by some political leaders.

---

3. DOJ Investigations into John Brennan & James Comey

[29:25 – 37:59]

Overview: In a startling revelation, Cruz and Ferguson discuss the Department of Justice’s (DOJ) initiation of criminal investigations into former CIA Director John Brennan and former FBI Director James Comey. This development touches on their roles in the Trump-Russia probe and potential misconduct.

Key Points:

• Investigation Details: Cruz reports that both Brennan and Comey are under criminal investigations for alleged wrongdoing related to the Trump-Russia investigation, including making false statements to Congress. He references reports from Fox News detailing the involvement of CIA Director John Ratcliffe in referring Brennan for prosecution.

• Background Context: The conversation provides historical context, recalling Brennan's and Comey's tenures during the Obama administration and their subsequent roles in politically charged investigations that many conservatives view as biased against former President Donald Trump.

• Political Implications: Cruz interprets these investigations as part of a broader effort to hold high-ranking intelligence officials accountable for actions that may have influenced public opinion and the political landscape during and after the 2016 election.

Notable Quotes:

• Cruz at [31:44]: “The full scope of the criminal investigations into Brennan and Comey is unclear, but two sources describe the FBI's view of the duo's interactions as a conspiracy, which could open up a wide range of potential prosecutorial options.”

• Ferguson at [33:08]: “John Brennan decided Jimmy Carter is too right wing for him and he voted for someone who, I'm not calling him a communist. He was the nominee of the Communist Party.”

• Cruz at [37:10]: “The greatest exposure they have is for lying to Congress because lying to Congress, you're under oath and lying under oath, that carries a prison sentence.”

Public Statements and Reactions: Ferguson critiques John Brennan’s public demeanor during media appearances, portraying him as evasive and untrustworthy. He highlights Brennan’s televised defense of his actions during the Trump-Russia probe, questioning his integrity and casting doubt on his leadership within the CIA.

Future Implications: Cruz underscores the gravity of investigating former top intelligence officials, emphasizing that if Brennan and Comey are found guilty of wrongdoing, it could signify a pivotal moment in holding elite figures accountable. He warns that such investigations may reveal deeper issues within the intelligence community and its interactions with political entities.

---

Conclusion

In this episode, Senator Ted Cruz and Ben Ferguson provide a compelling and emotional examination of events impacting national security and community well-being. From the heart-wrenching flood at Camp Mystic to the unsettling rise in violence against ICE agents fueled by incendiary political rhetoric, and finally, the unprecedented DOJ investigations into former intelligence chiefs, the hosts present a multifaceted view of the challenges facing the nation. Their discussions urge listeners to consider the profound consequences of political language and the importance of accountability within governmental institutions.

Final Notable Quote:

• Cruz at [37:59]: “It is a big damn deal that the former head of the FBI and the former head of the CIA are being criminally investigated for felony conduct. That's what's happening right now.”

---

This episode of "Verdict with Ted Cruz" underscores the interconnectedness of political discourse, law enforcement safety, and governmental accountability, offering listeners a thorough analysis of pressing issues shaping the current socio-political landscape.

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Ben Ferguson]

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[Christiana Amanpour]

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[Jamie Rubin]

And I'm Jamie Rubin, a former advisor to both Presidents Clinton and Biden.

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[Jamie Rubin]

Welcome. It is verdict with Ted Cruz. Week in review. Ben Ferguson with you. And these are the stories that you may have missed that we talked about this week. First up, Senator Ted Cruz was on the ground at Camp Mystic. What did he see and what did he learn about the flooding and the recovery efforts? Also, a massive rise in threats and attacks on ICE agents. Who's to blame? Could it be the leadership of the Democratic Party? We've got their quotes and you can decide. And finally, the FBI has opened investigations into John Brenham and James Comey. The deep state that was in charge of trying to overthrow the will of the voters to get rid of Donald Trump now may be finally held accountable for their actions. It's the week in review and it starts right now.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But I'll tell you, Ben, the most difficult thing I did today is I went to Camp mystic and I went and walked the grounds at Camp Mystic. And I think it may be the most horrifying thing I've ever seen in my life. You walk through and actually, as you walk through the river was calm and peaceful and beautiful, but it rose and it rose suddenly. And I will say, the press, I think, has been less than clear and honest about how Camp mystic is set up because they've described it as saying, well, the cabins for the young girls were down by the riverbank and all of the other cabins were up high. That's not accurate. And walking the grounds, the cabins are all hundreds of yards removed from the riverbank. There's a lot of distance between the river and where the cabin is. And the cabins are all about the same elevation. There's some differences, but not massive differences in elevation between the cabins at Mystic. And I was talking with one of the longtime employees there who said there had been a flood decades before and it had gotten up and crossed a little bit of the ground and had come to sort of the foundation of one of the buildings that was not a cabin but one of the buildings closer to the river. But it had never gotten close to the cabins. So that's one thing to understand. People say, well, gosh, this is prone to floods. Yes. But in the 100 years of camp mystic, there had never been a flood where the water had gotten to the cabins. And in this case, the water was eight feet deep in the cabins. Walking through and every building, you could see the water line. You could see the water line outside the buildings and it was eight feet deep. And in the cabins the water shattered the windows. It swept the furniture out. You looked in the cabins and every one of the cabins the furniture had been swept out. The windows were all shattered. And I got to tell you, look there. There was one cabin, it's called the Bubble Inn, and it's a cabin at mystic where the youngest girls were. And outside the bubble inn were 16 white crosses. And on each one of those was a name of a little girl. And they're names that we've read in the paper. They're names of little seven and eight year old girls, third graders who lost their lives. And one of the crosses was for Dick Eastland, the camp director who drowned trying to save the girls lives. And he had spent. He graduated from UT 50 years ago and had spent 50 years of his life running this camp for girls. And he was in his Suburban. They showed me where he drowned. It was a couple hundred yards from where I was standing in the river. He was trying to save the girls and the water swept him away and he drowned. And the 16 crosses reading those names. Two of those little girls go to go to school with my daughter. They're third graders at her school. The parents of one of those little girls lives a block away from me. And I'll tell you, I just knelt and wept. There were families there, Ben. There was a mom and dad who was kneeling in front of those crosses and they were kissing the cross. And I stood back. I didn't want to interrupt their grieving, but just watching them, the mom came to that cabin the bubble in and she just broke down in tears. In front of every cabin there were the children's belongings. There were trunks, there were electric fans. There were slippers and flip flops and crocs. There were teddy bears. There were stuffed animals everywhere. These were little girls and many of them have their names on them. And there were moms and dads picking through the rubble looking for the girls belongings. And I don't know which of those moms and dads lost a daughter. We know of 27 who were lost and there may be more. There are 11 that are missing. And there were girls picking through the rubble. I don't know if those girls were campers themselves who had survived. I don't know if they're siblings who had lost a sibling. But everyone is walking around. Shell shock doesn't begin to describe it. Up on the field, there was a field that was basically a parking lot for the cars of Counselors and the waters had thrown the cars on top of each other. It was like they were matchbox cars just flipped over. You saw car after car after car stacked on each other, flipped on its side, flipped over, tossed around the dining hall. An entire wall of the dining hall had been ripped off. They had heavy wooden tables that filled the dining hall. Every one of them had been pulled out. And the bubble in which is where a large percentage of the fatalities occurred, the water swept in and just pulled those girls out the windows. It seeing that, and I saw it first from the helicopter, and you could see all their belongings spread out. But then standing there and viewing it from the perspective of a dad, you know, I've helped my daughters pack their trunks. I can't pick up. Every year you go and pick up your daughter's truck and it's a joyful time. Our state is mourning right now. Ben.

[Jamie Rubin]

I tell you, for everyone listening and I say this, just pray for the people that are affected. Pray for the people in Texas. Pray for the families who are still without their. Their loved ones. They're still trying to find them. Pray for the moms and the dads who are planning the funerals. As we know people personally that are doing that and getting ready for that this week. Pray for the moms. God, please pray for the moms.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Jamie Rubin]

And anything you can do to help with all of the. There's so many different groups, groups that are helping the people in comfort and Kerr county. And there are people that need help, and we focus so much on the kids. But there's a lot of elderly people that have been affected by this. There a lot of people that lost their lives and all their belongings and help any way you can with all of the non profits that are getting involved that are doing this. And we're going to keep you updated. But I would just say hug your baby.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And Ben, I want to say. Ben, I want to say three more things of encouragement. So in hunt, there's a store that's kind of a focal point. It's called the hunt store, and it's right at the junction of two of the highways. You go up one highway to go to one of the big camps. You go up another highway to go up to mystic and La Junta. And actually La Junta is right across the street from the hunt Store. The hunt Store. The flood utterly gutted it. It's just ripped out in hollow shell. I went and stopped at the hunt store and just visited people who were there gathering there, and they'd actually changed the sign where it said Hunt Store. And instead of Hunt Store, they changed the sign to read Hunt Strong. And, you know, Heidi and Catherine were at the Hunt Store last week. I mean, it's. I've been there dozens of times. The owners were there. I just hugged them. And they were just like residents there who were just there mourning and grieving. And I'll tell you, there was set up. There was a giant barbecue truck. All right, so this is a story that is amazing that you're going to like. It's a barbecue truck from Rockport. Rockport is a town down on the Gulf Coast. And Rockport, when Hurricane Harvey hit, it devastated the Gulf coast from deep East Texas to south, all the way, really to Corpus Christi. So that's a lot of. And Rockport is right in there. It's by Port Aransas and Aransas Pass. And Rockport was devastated by Hurricane Harvey. Well, these guys, and these are big old Texans with big old beards. They look like ZZ Top. And they said, well, you know, when Hurricane Harvey hit, there was a group from Hunt, Texas, little town in the hill country, that came down to Rockport and set up a food truck and fed us when we had lost our homes. And so they got in a truck and drove up this giant smoker and griller, and they were just giving away free barbecue. And one of the things that's really cool. I was in Rockport several times after Hurricane Harvard, and I was in all the towns up and down the Gulf coast, but I was at those food trucks. I don't recall visiting with someone and hearing that they were from Hunt down in Rockport. But you know what? In Rockport, they remembered that. And that's something we see happening, just Texans coming together. The Cajun Navy from Louisiana came and were there helping people out. That was incredible. And I just had a chance. I visited with a family, one dad who introduced me to two little boys. And he said, both of them lost some of their closest friends of the flood. And I just said, you know, little kids, and they're not much older than your boys. They shouldn't have to deal with death and loss at that age. But I'll tell you, in that same parking lot at the Hunt store, there was a car that had written on the back of it a Bible verse written in, like, shaving cream on the back window. And it was Isaiah 43:2 that says, when you go through deep water, I will be with you.

[Jamie Rubin]

Amen.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That is. Look, you just asked folks to pray. Let me just underscore that for the moms and dads who have a yearning, gaping hole in their heart, I think there is no pain, no agony like losing a child and nothing will ever fill that hole. That pain will never go away. But they need love, they need support, they need friends, they need families to hug them, to hold them tight, to just give them a shoulder to cry on and to hold them up. And I got to tell you, this is a time for the church. One of the reasons Texas I think we are so resilient when facing natural disasters is because the church is strong in Texas. And you see church's step. I started the day actually by visiting with a number of chaplains who look, you want to talk about, it was brutal on the chaplains. When you're dealing with moms and dads who've lost their kids and they're just weeping. Even a chaplain, a man or woman of strong faith, I mean it rips your heart out to be with a parent who's lost a seven or eight year old daughter. And right down from the Hunt store there was a church that had a big sign. Free barbecue, lunch and dinner. All are welcome. And that's what the church should be doing is helping and clothing and comforting and taking care of the needy. And that the church should always be doing that, but especially in time of crisis.

[Jamie Rubin]

Now if you want to hear the rest of this conversation, you can go back and listen to the full podcast from earlier this week.

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[Ted Cruz]

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[Jamie Rubin]

Now on to story number two. Senator, I want to move to another big story, and that is the rising threat that has just become oh so real with federal law enforcement. And there was a shooter that ambushed Texas Border Patrol agents. Words from elected officials, in my opinion, have major influence, but also consequence. We have seen time and time again right now, Democrats coming out and saying that ICE are evil, stand up to ice, fight ice. These are words coming from so many Democrats that are actually elected to office.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, listen, as you noted, words have consequence. And we have seen an awful lot of Democrats, we have seen the corporate media denounce ice, called them Nazis, call them goose stepping fascists. And unfortunately, that rhetoric fuels a rage. It fuels a rage that we have seen manifesting in violence over and over again. Leftists engaging in active violence against ICE agents. So just a few days ago, an active shooter opened Fire on Ice agents in McAllen, Texas. And here's the story from FOX News. Active shooter killed. An attempt to ambush Border Patrol agents in Texas. One McAllen police officer wounded but in stable condition following apparent planned ambush at Rio Grande Valley facility. And here's what the article says. An active shooter armed with tactical gear and a rifle opened fire upon Border Patrol agents as they arrived at a Border Patrol Annex facility in McAllen, Texas, in the Rio Grande Valley on Monday. Law enforcement sources say agents and local police returned fire and killed the gunman. No federal agents were hit, but one McAllen police officer was struck. Law enforcement sources say the officer is in stable condition. Quote, this morning, an individual opened fire at the entrance of the United States Border Patrol SECTOR Annex in McAllen, Texas. Both, both Border Patrol agents and local police helped neutralize the shooter. The Department of Homeland Security said in a statement to Fox News this is an ongoing investigation led by the FBI. More information will be shared as it becomes available. Now, I'll tell you, I have walked into and out of that Border patrol facility in McAllen, Texas, multiple times. The fact that you have violent criminals and this is a criminal who lost his life because he showed up and wanted to shoot at law enforcement officials. He was doing so, we don't know this conclusively, but we can certainly infer that he was doing so because he's been listening to the extreme rhetoric that these are Nazis. And so he was like, you know what? If you've got Nazis, let's kill the Nazis. That is the consequence of the unhinged and deranged rhetoric on the left right now.

[Jamie Rubin]

You talk about that rhetoric, let's give actual quotes. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries of New York said employed people to, quote, fight the Trump administration in the streets, quote, unquote. He also declared ICE agents, quote, will be unsuccessful in protecting their identities no matter what it takes, advocating for doxing and putting their families at risk. ICE agents. Representative Jay Apollo of Washington called ICE agents, quote, unquote, deranged and said it is, quote, inspiring to obstruct immigration enforcement. Representative McIver of New Jersey, who was arrested and charged with forcibly impeding and interfering with federal officers outside nights detention facility, incited her supporters to, quote, shut down the city because we are at war, quote, unquote. And even the former vice presidential candidate, the Minnesota governor Tim Waltz, getting in on the action, called ICE agents the modern day gestapo. Chicago's mayor this past week, Johnson accused the ICE agents of being, quote, unquote, the secret police and, quote, terrorizing our communities. And, and you add in Eric Swalwell of California. He said it was, quote, his priority to ensure ICE agents, quote, are no longer faceless, comparing them to some 1800s bank robbers or some KGB officers in Russia. Words have consequences. And this is the rhetoric coming from some of your colleagues in D.C. well.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And not only do they have consequences with the armed shooter who was killed in McAllen, Texas, but in North Texas, 11 people were arrested for plotting to ambush to kill ICE correction officers. And I want to read from this story from the Daily Wire, quote, eleven people have been arrested in what law enforcement officers described as a, quote, planned ambush of corrections Officers at an ICE detention facility in Alvarado, Texas on July 4. One Alvarado police officer was shot in the neck during the attack and is expected to survive. Quote, early reports indicate that more than a dozen masked individuals dressed in black arrived at the Prairieland ICE detention facility late Friday night and vandalized vehicles and security cameras in the parking lot. CBS News reported the individuals launched fireworks in an apparent effort to lure law enforcement. On July 5, Deputy Attorney General Tom Blanche posted on X, quote, we are closely monitoring the attacks on DHS facilities in Prairie Land, Texas and Portland, Oregon, and are coordinating with usaos and our law Enforcement partners, the department has zero tolerance for assaults on federal officers or property and will bring the full weight of the law against those responsible. On Monday, Acting U.S. attorney Nancy Larson stated, quote, we're here to tell you that late at night on July 4th, Friday night at approximately 10:37pm at Prairie Land Ice Detention center in Alvarado, Texas, 10 to 12 individuals dressed in black military style clothing began shooting fireworks and engaging in acts of vandalism at the facility that was part of an organized attack. Today, my Office has charged 10 individuals with three counts of attempted murder of a federal officer.

[Jamie Rubin]

Wow.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Each of the 10 are also charged with three counts of discharging a firearm in relation to a crime of violence. Each of these defendants faces a mandatory prison term of 10 years and up to life in prison. An additional co conspirator was charged with obstruction of justice and conspiracy for attempting to conceal and destroy evidence in relation to the attack and faces up to 10 years in prison. And she continued, quote, let's discuss the incident. It was a planned ambush with the intent to kill ICE corrections officers. Make no mistake. This was not a so called peaceful protest. It was indeed an ambush. This is the violence we are seeing. And it turns out when you call law enforcement officers, federal law enforcement officers that are keeping us safe, when you call them Nazis, when you call them Gestapo, lunatics on the left hear that? And sadly, we are seeing over and over again they are acting, they're acting with violence.

[Jamie Rubin]

You look at, even on Tuesday, you had Democratic Senator Padilla of California and Cory Booker, New Jersey, they introduced that legislation to require either ICE officers to, quote, display clearly visible IDs and not wear masks no matter what during their enforcement operations, accusing, quote, the Trump administration of alarming immigration enforcement tactics that have terrorized communities across California and the nation. And, and we know what the left has done here. They want to dox these ICE agents, their family members, they've been putting their kids even online and, and posting. People been posting their home addresses hoping that basically people go after the ICE agents who are just doing their jobs. That's how sick these people are.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, listen, there's a simple choice. There's a choice for Americans all across the country. Who do you stand with? Do you stand with cops? Do you stand with law enforcement agents? Do you stand with the men and women who risk their lives to keep us safe? You and I both stand with them. Or as the Democrats have chosen, do you stand with illegal immigrants? Do you stand with murderers? Do you stand with rapists? Do you stand with child molesters. Do you stand with Venezuelan gang members who are engaged in human trafficking? Sadly, the Democrats and inexplicably they've decided to stand with the criminals and not law enforcement. And we're seeing the consequences as before.

[Jamie Rubin]

If you want to hear the rest of this conversation on this topic, you can go back and download the podcast from early this week to hear the entire thing.

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[Jamie Rubin]

I want to get back to the big story number three of the week you may have missed. Senator. I want to get into this and get your reaction to the FBI launching an investigation into John Brennan, into James Comey over the Trump Russia probe. I think we need to go back and just remind people of what they were peddling that they knew was false. Basically, in my opinion, it was a, it was a coup attempt against the American people who chose Donald Trump in 16 to be their president. They didn't like it. They're like, no worries. We'll, you know, we'll do what the the, the The Lisa Page, Peter Strucks were doing. Right. We'll, we'll, we'll fix it. We'll, we'll take care of it after the fact, after he gets sworn in. And we're gonna go after him and we're gonna undermine him, we're gonna get him impeached, and that'll be all. Fine.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, I gotta say, this is an astonishing story. John Brennan was the head of the CIA. James Comey was the head of the FBI. Both of them are right now under active criminal investigations. Here's what Fox News has reported. Quote, former CIA Director John Brennan and former FBI Director James Comey are under criminal investigation for potential wrongdoing related to the Trump Russia probe, including allegedly making false statements to Congress. Justice Department sources told Fox News Digital CIA Director John Ratcliffe referred evidence of wrongdoing by Brennan to FBI Director Cash Patel for potential prosecution, DOJ sources told Fox News Digital. The sources said the referral was received and told Fox News Digital that a criminal investigation into Brennan was opened and is underway. DOJ sources declined to provide further details. It is unclear at this point if the investigation spans beyond his alleged false statements to Congress. As for Comey, DOJ sources told Fox News Digital that an investigation in the former director is underway, but could not share details of what specifically is being probed. The full scope of the criminal investigations into Brandon and Comey is unclear, but two sources describe the FBI's view of the duo's interactions as a, quote, conspiracy, which could open up a wide range of potential prosecutorial options. The FBI and the CIA declined comment.

[Jamie Rubin]

I mean, this is massive on so many different levels. And John Brennan, by the way, he went on TV on msnbc and it was pretty funny because it was like he was just playing dumb. And it was like, I don't even know why they would be investigating me. I don't know what they would be looking at. I don't understand how this is even, even a thing in his own words. And in fact, I'm going to play it because I want you to hear it. I want to get your reaction. Here's John Brennan. Msnbc after finding out that he's the target of an investigation, if there is.

[I]

An investigation that people will be questioned, I would be questioned about it. But again, I've had no contact from them. But again, I testified in front of many, many congressional committees in the Senate over the years. And I continue to explain exactly what we did during this process, why we tried to make sure we stayed true to our intelligence responsibilities and that we were not going to do anything at all to try to interfere in that election. And again, it was a. It was a challenging time, but also one I think that the people who actually work this, both in terms of trying to collect intelligence prior to the election and then the ones who put together intelligence assessment, they really, I think showed the best of what the intelligence community and what CIA is made of. So again, I am clueless about what it is exactly that they may be investigating before.

[Jamie Rubin]

That may be the fastest senator I've ever heard John Brennan speak on TV ever. And I've watched him a lot over the years. That seemed like a very nervous man to me.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, and let me give a little more background on who John Brennan is. He was the director of the CIA from 2013 to 2017 under, under Barack Obama. Now, in 1976, John Brennan was a young man. 1976, you were not alive, is that right, Ben?

[Jamie Rubin]

I was not, no.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Now, you're enough of a political student and scholar, let me ask you, who were the presidential candidates in 1976?

[Jamie Rubin]

Jimmy Carter.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Jamie Rubin]

All right. And on the Republican side, I love when you play these games with me. Did Reagan. Was Reagan 76 as well?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, no, he. So Reagan ran, but he lost.

[Jamie Rubin]

It was Ford.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was Ford. Ford was the incumbent president. So remember, Richard Nixon had been president. He resigned. So Ford was the incumbent president. Reagan primaried Ford, but he lost in that primary. So the general election was Gerald Ford versus Jimmy Carter. Now let me ask you, all right, in that election, who would you vote for?

[Jamie Rubin]

I'm gonna probably go with a Republican there. Not Jimmy Carter.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, look. Although I will say, and by the way, do you know this is my first political memory? I'm about 10 years older than you are. My first political memory is when I was five years old, 1976, and my mother voted for Jimmy Carter. My mother's a strong conservative. She just thought Gerald Ford was an idiot. And I remember my father, my father, who's an immigrant from Cuba, he was not yet a U.S. citizen, he is today, but he was not in 76. And my father was furious because he felt like my mom had the family's vote and she voted for Jimmy Carter. It's funny, my mom is 90 now and she's incredible and a wonderful conservative and incredible person. But when I bring this up, she's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I didn't know. Jimmy Carter was an absolute disaster. He was a left wing wacko. He was the worst president this country had ever seen until Joe Biden. Joe Biden managed to be worse than Jimmy Carter. Now, how is this relevant to John Brennan? Well, John Brennan was in college at the time. He was faced with a choice between Gerald Ford and ultra left wing crazy Jimmy Carter. What do you think John Brennan did?

[Jamie Rubin]

What? I'm ready. Give me the, give me the punchline here.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He cast his vote for a guy named Gus Hall. Do you know who Gus hall was?

[Jamie Rubin]

I do not.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He was the presidential candidate for the Communist Party usa.

[Jamie Rubin]

And there's your sign.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So John Brennan decided Jimmy Carter is too right wing for him and he voted for someone who, I'm not calling him a communist. He was the nominee of the Communist Party. And John Brennan said, I want America governed by a communist president. That's who Barack Obama put in charge of the CIA and that's who played an integral role in orchestrating the whole Russiagate fraud. And it's just, it's important to understand just how extreme and radical this guy is. I gotta tell you, I don't know, to be honest, I don't know anybody else in public life who thought Jimmy Carter was too conservative. John Brennan is literally to the left of every Democrat senator, every Democrat House member, every single person I've ever encountered in public life. The lefty loons all voted for Jimmy Carter except for John Brennan who said, nope, we need a full on communist. That's who this guy is.

[Jamie Rubin]

Final question on this. How concerned do you think these two individuals should be about this investigation? Or is this one of those moments where you say, okay, yeah, there's investigation, but I don't have to worry because nothing ever really happens to us when we're the elites.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, listen, the greatest exposure they have is for lying to Congress because lying to Congress, you're under oath and lying under oath, that carries a prison sentence. That carries up to five years in prison. James Clapper, who was the Director of National Intelligence under Barack Obama, I think the evidence is very clear that he lied to Congress. Whether John Brennan did, whether James Comey did, I think this investigation will reveal. It will depend upon. There's no doubt they were terrible heads of the CIA and the FBI, whether they committed criminal conduct or not. I think that that is the purpose of this investigation. But I gotta say, it is a big damn deal that the former head of the FBI and the former head of the CIA are being criminally investigated for felony conduct. That's what's happening right now.

[Jamie Rubin]

As always, thank you for listening to Verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with you. Don't forget to download my podcast and you can listen to my podcast every other day. You're not listening to Verdict or each day when you listen to Verdict afterwards. I'd love to have you as a listener to again the Ben Ferguson Podcast and we will see you back here on Monday morning.

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